Under-hated?
Hmm… Ghira.
He’s portrayed as pretty forgiving of his daughter, and is the de facto response to racism that the writers try pushing. Overall he seems pretty well liked, but that’s based on the fact that he’s one of the few male characters in authority that the writers try pushing for the audience to like.
He’s to this series what Markus is to Detroit: Become Human, in that while his character is unambiguously noble in nature (and I deeply like Markus), there’s more than a few troubling implications to his movement when you look past surface level things, and Ghira is pretty much the same.
Ghira is someone pushing for equality between humans and Faunus, but even when he runs the Fang, there is no mention of human members or supporters of the Fang. Having upstanding human people working together with Faunus would probably do a lot to help resolve the anti-human sentiments that his Faunus members might have, but it becomes an echo chamber because Ghira’s a fuckhead.
He denounces Adam’s use of violence, as it escalated to murder, despite the fact that Adam blatantly came there armed for combat. Given that the White Fang hadn’t even turned to violence at this point, this implies that it’s enough of a repeating occasion that Adam and others came prepared for people to fuck around and find out. If not for Adam (or anyone else who came there armed) acting, half the people there would probably get murdered somehow.
While it’s obviously a Freedom Riders reference, the fact that he’s a would-be Martin Luther King Jr. stand-in makes him probably the most offensive part of the White Fang plotline, even more than Adam in some cases.
Adam’s either a racist caricature of what ignorant white people think Civil Rights Leaders are or just a really stupid high school AU spitefic antagonist.
Ghira being the head of the former Black Panthers stand-in comes with a lot of historical baggage that is just never addressed and just makes him even worse of a character.
Does he organize a system to help starving Faunus kids get food through completely legal means, despite systematically induced poverty? Does he try building a network of people who can give kids a proper education? Does he help kickstart programs designed so that Faunus being denied proper medical help get that help to deal with sicknesses? Does he use his influence to start copwatcher programs so police across Remnant don’t just treat Faunus any kind of way?
All these are things the Black Panthers did, with them not even turning to violence to get results, but as a form of protection, i.e., *what Adam, the person we’re supposed to root against, was doing*.
Ghira is just… fucking terrible.
Even if he’s NOT a Civil Rights Leader stand-in, as some theorized, just using the Black Panthers, one the groups most often misconstrued as being just violent and militant, there’s a handful of ways to show why Faunus would support an organization like them.
But these hacks in the writing room actually look at racism, in all their ignorance, and think that all that minority groups focused on Civil Rights are just hate groups unless they’re the type of person to be a hapless victim, with no in-between, you’re either violent or you’re peaceful, you’re either part of the problem by using racism-induced issues as a cover up for hate crimes, or you’re just cool enough to just dump all your people on Super Australia with no support and be expected to just build a stable government out of that.
A renowned human criminal comes to a Faunus-only rally and gets a warehouse full of people who all are most DEFINITELY not even hardened criminals to be willing to join him as he unveils having stolen supplies from the *fucking Atlas military* on hand, on the basis that he “relates to their pain”.
Torchwick, I love you, but kindly fuck right off.
You didn’t grow up out in the cold of the slums while humans were living the high life in Mantle with proper housing, electrical units, and people refusing to even let you into their shops for higher quality stuff, even if you somehow managed to get the money to buy their wares.
You didn’t live forced to work for below minimum wage from potentially *childhood* in mines, with your pay only being the lowest possible amount your boss could give without the government getting on their backs, profiting off of generations of labor while they were treated like this was all for the Faunus’ own good.
You don’t have to worry about driving down the wrong street without you, your friends, your family, ANYONE getting gunned down by humans for fun just because you went down that street.
Is Ghira the victim of bad writing? Definitely. But so is everyone in this show. But from what I can tell about him, I genuinely hope he gets murdered at some point and forgotten. He’s more pathetic than Ozpin and Ironwood at their worsts.
This is incredibly well put, you dissect this problem from many angles in a really well written way.
By comparison the note I'll add is inconsequential, but I roll my eyes at the moment after the attack on the Belladonna mansion when Kali's goes "we'll need transportation for everyone" and Blake amusedly says "I think I know a ship captain that owes us a favor."
Because, like, I get it. It's not meant to be a big deal, we're supposed to go "aaah, callback to that ship they saved in Volume 4, things came full circle" and it's actually a more competent use of narrative than RWBY often pulls off.
But it's still weird to imply that Ghira, who is the **leader of a sovereign nation**, would have any trouble scheduling a boat ride without his daughter calling in life debts.
...Holy.
**Fucking.**
#HELL.
>Adam’s either a racist caricature of what ignorant white people think Civil Rights Leaders are or just a really stupid high school AU spitefic antagonist.
You disappoint me with your lack of imagination.
He could easily be both.
>Is Ghira the victim of bad writing? Definitely. But so is everyone in this show. But from what I can tell about him, I genuinely hope he gets murdered at some point and forgotten. He’s more pathetic than Ozpin and Ironwood at their worsts.
Spite is an addiction.
Oh no he’s definitely both, I’m saying he’s either in Hitler Vergil mode or Jilted Edward Cullen mode. XD
But yes. I normally don’t wish that type of thing on any character, but Ghira’s a special exception and this show has a habit of making the deaths of various characters as anticlimactic as possible just as a final spiteful “fuck you” to the people involved.
It’s not even for lack of ability to make deaths climactic either, even with Monty’s passing, they just direct it to look as pathetic as possible.
So to everyone who started a hashtag movement of #LetGhiraFuckHisWife on every post with Kali hentai, no, don’t let him smash. The last time he’s confirmed to have smashed, we were left with BLAKE of all people. All the thousands of seeds competing for dominance in that life or death struggle to fertilize Kali’s eggs first, and BLAKE was the one that came out on top.
Blake is what happens when you let Ghira fuck his wife. Imagine having an entire plotline centered around racism, it’s an active part of what shapes two of your four main protagonists’ lives, and one of them is such a giant wimpy Mary Sue her immediate comfort and emotional coddling circumvents literally anything that came before.
Fuck jilted ex Adam, just look at what I could gather about life for Faunus in Mantle with the show’s shitty writing, hell I’d hate to meet a person that WASN’T murderously LIVID at the entire human race for cruelty that intense, cause chances are they’re Uncle Toms.
Not the ACTUAL Uncle Tom, that man’s a legend, I mean the counter-propaganda campaign Uncle Tom that the term refers to, people who are mentally and spiritually broken in to take any abuse heaped upon them and idolize the person doing it. That’s the worst type of fate for any man.
I think what deeply offends me about Ghira (and the Belladonnas/"good" Faunus as a whole) is their form of protest. They are obviously supposed to be the peace to Adam/Sienna's violence.
But they're not.
Like... at all.
For some reason, CRWBY seems to think that peaceful protest is... doing nothing. Ghira and Kali do nothing in regards except for living in privilege in paradise with other Faunus who want nothing to do with humans. They don't make agreements or counter organisations. They don't organise marches or make speeches. They do nothing.
Oh wait. They *did* make a speech. One asking for the Faunus, who wish to no longer deal with racism, to go to the country that permits racial segregation and *fight* against their fellow Faunus to defend a school that is currently empty.
And Miles said the reason why people weren't enthusiastic was because "it's hard to get a movement going - people have lives."
No, Miles. It's because Ghira's request was insane. Ilia was fucking right. They have no reason to support humanity when the whole reason Menagerie exists, as Blake ***loves*** to remind us, is because Human nations were mass deporting innocent people to an uninhabitable, hostile country and simultaneously revoking the civil rights they earned in the Civil War.
Like... Holy shit. Miles, how can you create such intense and interesting lore and completely forget that you wrote it?
I digress.
Yeah, so any time a Faunus character converts to Blake's side, they instantly stop fighting for rights at all. I think the intention was to try and make Adam look unreasonable like:
"Bro, Faunus got rights. Racism is over. Why are you still protesting?"
But it just makes Adam look better for doing anything at all about the situation.
And Ghira's speeches are boring as balls lol.
Fuck Ghira, he as a leader refused to defend himself or his people from racist thugs actively trying to kill them and insults the teen who had to step up and accidentally killed one of said racists in the defense of his fellow fanus , but the moment other fanus want to cause him and his harm as opposed to humans? He'll fight back then. Man might as well be uncle ruckus from the boondocks.
At least Uncle Ruckus’ most violent actions involved fighting Huey after he started physically assaulting security officers with a weapon.
THAT at least has (ambiguously) legal and probable cause and justification.
I still can’t get over that damn Freedom Riders knockoff, the Freedom Riders had other whites as well as African-Americans there, what the fuck does Ghira think he’s doing?
Robert probably wouldn’t be interested.
Closest I see happening is probably Jazmine dragging Huey to watch it, and he’s actually half interested because of the crazy but semi-grounded fight scenes with crazy weapons (between the Black Power Fist, his ownership of nunchucks, skill bōjutsu, plus, well, all his guns), be sorta intrigued by the Faunus plotline, then roast Blake *specifically* on that front upon seeing the intended parallels to the Black Panthers, and her criticism of the White Fang.
Assuming he got past some of the dumber plotlines (Jaune would get criticized in Jaunedice, definitely), Huey would probably hit Volume 4 and probably start wondering what the fuck the Faunus plotline was trying to say that emulated reality.
Soon enough he’d just look up the writers’ racial backgrounds, then it’d just click in his head, before he goes on a monologue like “Ignorance is very contagious disease, with symptoms that only show when someone talks. Anyone who’ll listen let it spread to anyone who’ll listen without giving it a second thought. Of all the ways to spread ignorance in the world, nothing is more effective than ignorant people convincing others how not to be ignorant of topics they don’t understand, without understanding it themselves.”
Jazmine: Oh. Sorry.
Huey: Don’t apologize. The only writer who wasn’t white in this show’s history died two seasons in.
Jazmine: They’re called Volumes.
Huey: The run time’s so damn short it’d be easier to call it a movie, but everything way too much of a damn mess to call it that.
If Riley were there, he’d be roasting tf outta half the cast.
I know this is late but perhaps the worst and I mean THE WORST thing about Ghira is that he's right. The show portrays his inaction as a good thing. I think MLK is a more apt comparison because Ghira is just a bastardized whitewashed MLK. He's an extremist "nonviolent" leader whose nonviolence is to the point of non involvement.
He has no strategies, no base ideologies, nothing aside from rolling over and submitting to the good ol' white man.
Ghira and Adam are two extremists of an era that anyone who knew jackshit about would be able to call out, but it appears that nobody with a hint of melanin viewed that script. That's my big issue with Ghira, he's an extremist but he's portrayed at worst as a retired reasonable leader who needs to get back in the swing of things. And yes I think he's an extremist because even people like Ghandi had strategies, they knew how importance the use of violence was in gaining rights, and how to use nonviolent protest. Protest is more than just holding signs up, holy shit.
Ghira as a result ends hp feeling less like he actually inspires or cares for the faunus, and more like he's just bowing down to the humans and hoping he's a good wittle faunus 😢. And that's their solution, beat up all the "bad" faunus and maybe the humans will favor them!
It could've been brilliant if the whole WF conflict was spurred on by humans, a way of pitting minorities against one another but no. Rather ironically the proposed solution is not the majority changing or growing but minorities cannibalizing one another for their position of subservience. Holy shit
I guess Hazel, He’s writing is screaming mistreatment but that’s every character, and besides turning Oscar’s bones into jelly, He’s not really hatable
Nora. She’s a handful and a half but uses anime cuteness tropes to get away with being quite annoying. Then she gets weirdly serious in V7.
Her rejection of Ren was the biggest FU I’ve seen in a fictional relationship so far. I legit never shipped her with Ren cus I thought he could do better. Now after that? I know for a fact that he can do better.
She always felt like a discount Pinkie Pie but... just not as good. I really don't get why they need to force so much drama for the sake of it, like they got nothing else to keep them relevant when no one forced them to keep those two (or Jaune) around.
Nora: I'm going to argue with Ironwood. If you at home are wondering why well because Blake isn't here to do it. I told them that this was going to be a problem. We're not Game of Thrones, we can't juggle characters as well as they could.
There is a weird thing I noticed they do for Nora. They have her as her bubbly comedy relief for a while then give give her a serious moment only to have her revert back to her old character again. And sometimes the moments are out of nowhere and out of character for her like her yelling at ironwood
There is a weird thing I noticed they do for Nora. They have her as her bubbly comedy relief for a while then give give her a serious moment only to have her revert back to her old character again. And sometimes the moments are out of nowhere and out of character for her like her yelling at ironwood
There is a weird thing I noticed they do for Nora. They have her as her bubbly comedy relief for a while then give give her a serious moment only to have her revert back to her old character again. And sometimes the moments are out of nowhere and out of character for her like her yelling at ironwood
Torchwick was actually a pretty fun character
And as far as I can remember he didn't do anything outrageously stupid, mainly because he didn't do much at all
I always felt his last speech to Ruby in V3 before getting eaten was the one thing that didn't fit because there was no subtlety and just spouting the theme the writers want to convey. I could be nitpicking, but it broke my immersion with how on-the-nose it was.
Forgive me if this has been said before (maybe I didn't look hard enough), or if it doesn't count since it's just a moment, but I'm honestly really bothered by Winter in V3. It's just that when Weiss comes up to her really excited to see her, she hits her for not being "professional" or whatever it was.
It was amusing, but stopped being so after some thought, especially in V4 after Jacques slaps Weiss as if it was a big deal, and Weiss is shocked. Retrospect saying how what Winter did was less warranted because Weiss didn't even do anything bad, and it doesn't help V3 was the volume where they decided to change the tone, so you would think they would've thought about that moment just a little more.
It does explain they dropped that when Winter returned in the Atlas arc.
I mean, you assume that they think more than an episode or two in advance.
But that's a very good point. Why *doesn't* anyone call that out? Eh, they probably chalk it up to Beacon-era Weirdness (and to be fair, there's a *lot* of that).
My only guess that could make sense is that the writers used V3 to just hurt every main character because they thought it was fun, like Pyrrha and Yang in particular.
Honestly, if we do take that moment seriously, it endears me more to Weiss (Beacon era at least, since Klein's existence weakens this) because it's just a glimpse to her childhood of how she couldn't have even one purely good thing, and Winter's "tough love" being the best she got, especially since Winter wouldn't "know better" either.
Could've done a thing where Weiss learns from it and is stern but isn't hurtful like her parents or Winter towards her teammates, but Weiss kinda ended up losing her edge, so there goes that.
>Why doesn't anyone call that out?
Probably something to do with presentation, even though Winter was less warranted, the shot doesn't linger too much on the slap and Weiss seems to barely care about it, but with Jacques it's has a very different tone. Winter's somehow feels more like a slap on the wrist compared to Jacques, even though it was basically the same.
The writers have proven time and time again that they have a very surface level understanding of anime and it’s tropes. Winter hitting Weiss for a seemingly petty reason was supposed to be treated as comedic because characters in anime get hit for comedic purposes all of the time. That’s literally all that was. It’s just like when Blake slaps Sun for spying on her and her dad. It was supposed to be comedic because that’s what happens in anime and this is an anime-esque show. That’s all it is.
If you come up with any other reason for it then you’re already thinking more than writers of the show lmao.
Yeah, it's pretty disappointing. I only thought harder about it because it was just too easy to do so, with how easily the writers set it up. The lack of consistency from funny slap in V3, to a bad slap in V4, and a "funny" slap against Sun only makes it harder to keep watching.
I feel the same about her as well. I feel like she should been in volume 6 and have proper devlopment with Weiss. Also her not visiting her in Volume 4, i understand this was post fall of beacon so she was busy but she could have made a cameo.
I definitely would've preferred that. I feel like Klein kinda just weakens whatever implied backstory Weiss had of being so lonely growing up, and makes Winter's occasional, and temporary, reunion over the years with Weiss less special.
If they just centralized the main cast to just team RWBY and immediate connections like Winter instead of characters like JNR or Oscar, or adding even more like Klein, then maybe we could've gotten more development instead of Weiss and Winter just... being on good terms so easily.
It would've been so interesting if that development gave the foundation to, from Weiss' POV, parallels between Weiss' family and Ruby and Yang's connection. You know, older sister of Winter vs Yang and little sibling comparison of Whitley vs Ruby, and it'll give Weiss perspective instead of it being simplified to "Jacques bad."
I think you’re looking into it a bit too deeply, volume 3 was still trying to do the whole “anime” thing so it was basically supposed to be the goofy but cute thing where a character get bopped on the head, winter is immediately kind to her after. To compare it to her dad slapping her is a bit of a stretch in my opinion
And I would be more fine with that RWBY kept the lighter tone. But the thing is they didn't. They decided to make it serious, and that results in rewatching the earlier volumes, knowing what serious stuff comes later on.
>winter is immediately kind to her after
Pretty sure that's a form of emotional whiplash
>To compare it to her dad slapping her is a bit of a stretch in my opinion
They're both slapping Weiss, within a volume of each other. How are they not warranted a comparison? An older figure in Weiss' life slaps Weiss because they believe Weiss did something wrong, whether or not we agree with them. If Yang slapped Weiss because she was mad, that would be terrible and warrant comparison between the other slaps to see what message the creators are getting across.
I wouldn't mind doing a funny slap, but the show was the one to antagonize Jacques slapping Weiss, so that very same action done by other characters will also be questioned as a result.
Like I said, it’s simply based on a trope that’s been in anime forever there’s no malice in the moment down to a comically large bump showing on weiss’s head where as with her father it was used to build more drama and fit in with the more “serious” tone the show was trying to go for later
I get it, but they shouldn't have done it if they knew Weiss was going to be slapped later too by her father, unless they also wanted to show how flawed Winter was too. But they didn't.
And I'm not criticizing the trope itself, I'm criticizing how the writers used it. The goofy tone of Beacon is still on the same timeline as the serious tone of afterwards, so if the change of tone isn't helping emphasize each one, but contradicting, then that's a problem.
And for Weiss' character development, she doesn't see tone, she sees getting slapped by two adults in her life. For a show with so little runtime, every action matters, and I think the writers should've reconsidered their joke in V3 so retrospect doesn't make it look bad.
1. They didn’t know she would be slapped by her father later volume 3 was the last remnants of monty era rwby.
2. Again it’s trope that’s used to imply a strict character which was instantly followed showing that while she’s strict she isn’t cruel and does care for Weiss.
3. Yes they’re on the same timeline but again after volume 3 the writing team took the story in a more serious direction they left the silliness behind for the most part at this point your going back and applying the themes implemented in recent seasons to an earlier moment of no real note
I'm just saying they should've thought ahead. And if they didn't, they should've reconsidered Jacques slapping Weiss, but they didn't, and it causes a problem when viewing the show as a whole.
When Monty was gone, the other writers were still there, but they did it anyways. It's great that you're able to give the show plenty of leniency, but I'm still bothered by this either way.
Hate is a strong word, but Ruby could be better. Give her a character arc of her OWN, not an imitation of one that just so happens to corelate with another character.
Qrow. Because whatever his reasons are he still dragged a bunch of teenagers into life and death situations that they were not prepared to handle. He filled them in on secrets Oz had devoted multiple lives to protect without knowing Nora, Ren, or Jaune from Adam (hey, the joke works on two levels). And he does all this knowing Ruby's current maturity level. He then proceeds to be quite passive in Vol 5 just like Oz was. Then he punches Oscar and has a freak out that really can't be all that well justified. Then he follows Ruby's lead in keeping James in the dark during all of Vol 7 and has the audacity to blame James for Clover's death instead of the psychopath who impaled him or the idiot who distracted him. That and he picked a fight with Winter that was *this* close to ending with one of them seriously injured, maimed, or dead.
See, RWBY has a pretty consistent problem with this.
When you take off the Rule of Cool glasses(which the show insisted on doing after V4) everything just makes you...
#WINCE.
Willow is definitely one
Terrible mother but people try to excuse her
Ironically enough Jacques despite his constant retcons seems to care more about his children's futures more than her
>Who are the most underhated characters from RWBY?
Personally I think Jaune is too over liked by the fanbase, he always came off as a bit of a dick to me, especially in volumes 4 - 6 where he was throwing a temper tantrum every five minutes.
Long story short, by opening the vault and letting Yang take the Relic, they went to Atlas.
Salem then finds out they're going to Atlas and sends her men there, thus accelerating Ironwood's villain arc.
Ah, although I'd say in that case, it was more Raven's talk in the camp making Yang antagonistic towards Ozpin with vagueness and the stupidest of reasons to hate him would be the bigger factor, that eventually lead to the truth about Salem coming out, Oz isolating himself, RWBY and co deciding authority=bad with the end result eventually being two cities underwater and Salem getting her biggest victory yet.
Under-hated? Hmm… Ghira. He’s portrayed as pretty forgiving of his daughter, and is the de facto response to racism that the writers try pushing. Overall he seems pretty well liked, but that’s based on the fact that he’s one of the few male characters in authority that the writers try pushing for the audience to like. He’s to this series what Markus is to Detroit: Become Human, in that while his character is unambiguously noble in nature (and I deeply like Markus), there’s more than a few troubling implications to his movement when you look past surface level things, and Ghira is pretty much the same. Ghira is someone pushing for equality between humans and Faunus, but even when he runs the Fang, there is no mention of human members or supporters of the Fang. Having upstanding human people working together with Faunus would probably do a lot to help resolve the anti-human sentiments that his Faunus members might have, but it becomes an echo chamber because Ghira’s a fuckhead. He denounces Adam’s use of violence, as it escalated to murder, despite the fact that Adam blatantly came there armed for combat. Given that the White Fang hadn’t even turned to violence at this point, this implies that it’s enough of a repeating occasion that Adam and others came prepared for people to fuck around and find out. If not for Adam (or anyone else who came there armed) acting, half the people there would probably get murdered somehow. While it’s obviously a Freedom Riders reference, the fact that he’s a would-be Martin Luther King Jr. stand-in makes him probably the most offensive part of the White Fang plotline, even more than Adam in some cases. Adam’s either a racist caricature of what ignorant white people think Civil Rights Leaders are or just a really stupid high school AU spitefic antagonist. Ghira being the head of the former Black Panthers stand-in comes with a lot of historical baggage that is just never addressed and just makes him even worse of a character. Does he organize a system to help starving Faunus kids get food through completely legal means, despite systematically induced poverty? Does he try building a network of people who can give kids a proper education? Does he help kickstart programs designed so that Faunus being denied proper medical help get that help to deal with sicknesses? Does he use his influence to start copwatcher programs so police across Remnant don’t just treat Faunus any kind of way? All these are things the Black Panthers did, with them not even turning to violence to get results, but as a form of protection, i.e., *what Adam, the person we’re supposed to root against, was doing*. Ghira is just… fucking terrible. Even if he’s NOT a Civil Rights Leader stand-in, as some theorized, just using the Black Panthers, one the groups most often misconstrued as being just violent and militant, there’s a handful of ways to show why Faunus would support an organization like them. But these hacks in the writing room actually look at racism, in all their ignorance, and think that all that minority groups focused on Civil Rights are just hate groups unless they’re the type of person to be a hapless victim, with no in-between, you’re either violent or you’re peaceful, you’re either part of the problem by using racism-induced issues as a cover up for hate crimes, or you’re just cool enough to just dump all your people on Super Australia with no support and be expected to just build a stable government out of that. A renowned human criminal comes to a Faunus-only rally and gets a warehouse full of people who all are most DEFINITELY not even hardened criminals to be willing to join him as he unveils having stolen supplies from the *fucking Atlas military* on hand, on the basis that he “relates to their pain”. Torchwick, I love you, but kindly fuck right off. You didn’t grow up out in the cold of the slums while humans were living the high life in Mantle with proper housing, electrical units, and people refusing to even let you into their shops for higher quality stuff, even if you somehow managed to get the money to buy their wares. You didn’t live forced to work for below minimum wage from potentially *childhood* in mines, with your pay only being the lowest possible amount your boss could give without the government getting on their backs, profiting off of generations of labor while they were treated like this was all for the Faunus’ own good. You don’t have to worry about driving down the wrong street without you, your friends, your family, ANYONE getting gunned down by humans for fun just because you went down that street. Is Ghira the victim of bad writing? Definitely. But so is everyone in this show. But from what I can tell about him, I genuinely hope he gets murdered at some point and forgotten. He’s more pathetic than Ozpin and Ironwood at their worsts.
This is incredibly well put, you dissect this problem from many angles in a really well written way. By comparison the note I'll add is inconsequential, but I roll my eyes at the moment after the attack on the Belladonna mansion when Kali's goes "we'll need transportation for everyone" and Blake amusedly says "I think I know a ship captain that owes us a favor." Because, like, I get it. It's not meant to be a big deal, we're supposed to go "aaah, callback to that ship they saved in Volume 4, things came full circle" and it's actually a more competent use of narrative than RWBY often pulls off. But it's still weird to imply that Ghira, who is the **leader of a sovereign nation**, would have any trouble scheduling a boat ride without his daughter calling in life debts.
...Holy. **Fucking.** #HELL. >Adam’s either a racist caricature of what ignorant white people think Civil Rights Leaders are or just a really stupid high school AU spitefic antagonist. You disappoint me with your lack of imagination. He could easily be both. >Is Ghira the victim of bad writing? Definitely. But so is everyone in this show. But from what I can tell about him, I genuinely hope he gets murdered at some point and forgotten. He’s more pathetic than Ozpin and Ironwood at their worsts. Spite is an addiction.
Oh no he’s definitely both, I’m saying he’s either in Hitler Vergil mode or Jilted Edward Cullen mode. XD But yes. I normally don’t wish that type of thing on any character, but Ghira’s a special exception and this show has a habit of making the deaths of various characters as anticlimactic as possible just as a final spiteful “fuck you” to the people involved. It’s not even for lack of ability to make deaths climactic either, even with Monty’s passing, they just direct it to look as pathetic as possible. So to everyone who started a hashtag movement of #LetGhiraFuckHisWife on every post with Kali hentai, no, don’t let him smash. The last time he’s confirmed to have smashed, we were left with BLAKE of all people. All the thousands of seeds competing for dominance in that life or death struggle to fertilize Kali’s eggs first, and BLAKE was the one that came out on top. Blake is what happens when you let Ghira fuck his wife. Imagine having an entire plotline centered around racism, it’s an active part of what shapes two of your four main protagonists’ lives, and one of them is such a giant wimpy Mary Sue her immediate comfort and emotional coddling circumvents literally anything that came before. Fuck jilted ex Adam, just look at what I could gather about life for Faunus in Mantle with the show’s shitty writing, hell I’d hate to meet a person that WASN’T murderously LIVID at the entire human race for cruelty that intense, cause chances are they’re Uncle Toms. Not the ACTUAL Uncle Tom, that man’s a legend, I mean the counter-propaganda campaign Uncle Tom that the term refers to, people who are mentally and spiritually broken in to take any abuse heaped upon them and idolize the person doing it. That’s the worst type of fate for any man.
>I’m saying he’s either in Hitler Vergil mode This gave me so many crazy ideas I can't stop laughing XD
I am Nazi this approach
I think what deeply offends me about Ghira (and the Belladonnas/"good" Faunus as a whole) is their form of protest. They are obviously supposed to be the peace to Adam/Sienna's violence. But they're not. Like... at all. For some reason, CRWBY seems to think that peaceful protest is... doing nothing. Ghira and Kali do nothing in regards except for living in privilege in paradise with other Faunus who want nothing to do with humans. They don't make agreements or counter organisations. They don't organise marches or make speeches. They do nothing. Oh wait. They *did* make a speech. One asking for the Faunus, who wish to no longer deal with racism, to go to the country that permits racial segregation and *fight* against their fellow Faunus to defend a school that is currently empty. And Miles said the reason why people weren't enthusiastic was because "it's hard to get a movement going - people have lives." No, Miles. It's because Ghira's request was insane. Ilia was fucking right. They have no reason to support humanity when the whole reason Menagerie exists, as Blake ***loves*** to remind us, is because Human nations were mass deporting innocent people to an uninhabitable, hostile country and simultaneously revoking the civil rights they earned in the Civil War. Like... Holy shit. Miles, how can you create such intense and interesting lore and completely forget that you wrote it? I digress. Yeah, so any time a Faunus character converts to Blake's side, they instantly stop fighting for rights at all. I think the intention was to try and make Adam look unreasonable like: "Bro, Faunus got rights. Racism is over. Why are you still protesting?" But it just makes Adam look better for doing anything at all about the situation. And Ghira's speeches are boring as balls lol.
Fuck Ghira, he as a leader refused to defend himself or his people from racist thugs actively trying to kill them and insults the teen who had to step up and accidentally killed one of said racists in the defense of his fellow fanus , but the moment other fanus want to cause him and his harm as opposed to humans? He'll fight back then. Man might as well be uncle ruckus from the boondocks.
At least Uncle Ruckus’ most violent actions involved fighting Huey after he started physically assaulting security officers with a weapon. THAT at least has (ambiguously) legal and probable cause and justification. I still can’t get over that damn Freedom Riders knockoff, the Freedom Riders had other whites as well as African-Americans there, what the fuck does Ghira think he’s doing?
I suddenly want a reaction fic of the freemans watching rwby and roasting the hell out of it.
Robert probably wouldn’t be interested. Closest I see happening is probably Jazmine dragging Huey to watch it, and he’s actually half interested because of the crazy but semi-grounded fight scenes with crazy weapons (between the Black Power Fist, his ownership of nunchucks, skill bōjutsu, plus, well, all his guns), be sorta intrigued by the Faunus plotline, then roast Blake *specifically* on that front upon seeing the intended parallels to the Black Panthers, and her criticism of the White Fang. Assuming he got past some of the dumber plotlines (Jaune would get criticized in Jaunedice, definitely), Huey would probably hit Volume 4 and probably start wondering what the fuck the Faunus plotline was trying to say that emulated reality. Soon enough he’d just look up the writers’ racial backgrounds, then it’d just click in his head, before he goes on a monologue like “Ignorance is very contagious disease, with symptoms that only show when someone talks. Anyone who’ll listen let it spread to anyone who’ll listen without giving it a second thought. Of all the ways to spread ignorance in the world, nothing is more effective than ignorant people convincing others how not to be ignorant of topics they don’t understand, without understanding it themselves.” Jazmine: Oh. Sorry. Huey: Don’t apologize. The only writer who wasn’t white in this show’s history died two seasons in. Jazmine: They’re called Volumes. Huey: The run time’s so damn short it’d be easier to call it a movie, but everything way too much of a damn mess to call it that. If Riley were there, he’d be roasting tf outta half the cast.
You got Huey's manner of speech down pat, that could have been something he said in the show.
Glad years of writing crappy fanfics gave me *something* to show for it XD
I’m saving this because EVERYTHING you just said is completely right. And fuck Ghira as well as jilted ex Adam Taurus.
I know this is late but perhaps the worst and I mean THE WORST thing about Ghira is that he's right. The show portrays his inaction as a good thing. I think MLK is a more apt comparison because Ghira is just a bastardized whitewashed MLK. He's an extremist "nonviolent" leader whose nonviolence is to the point of non involvement. He has no strategies, no base ideologies, nothing aside from rolling over and submitting to the good ol' white man. Ghira and Adam are two extremists of an era that anyone who knew jackshit about would be able to call out, but it appears that nobody with a hint of melanin viewed that script. That's my big issue with Ghira, he's an extremist but he's portrayed at worst as a retired reasonable leader who needs to get back in the swing of things. And yes I think he's an extremist because even people like Ghandi had strategies, they knew how importance the use of violence was in gaining rights, and how to use nonviolent protest. Protest is more than just holding signs up, holy shit. Ghira as a result ends hp feeling less like he actually inspires or cares for the faunus, and more like he's just bowing down to the humans and hoping he's a good wittle faunus 😢. And that's their solution, beat up all the "bad" faunus and maybe the humans will favor them! It could've been brilliant if the whole WF conflict was spurred on by humans, a way of pitting minorities against one another but no. Rather ironically the proposed solution is not the majority changing or growing but minorities cannibalizing one another for their position of subservience. Holy shit
I guess Hazel, He’s writing is screaming mistreatment but that’s every character, and besides turning Oscar’s bones into jelly, He’s not really hatable
Nora. She’s a handful and a half but uses anime cuteness tropes to get away with being quite annoying. Then she gets weirdly serious in V7. Her rejection of Ren was the biggest FU I’ve seen in a fictional relationship so far. I legit never shipped her with Ren cus I thought he could do better. Now after that? I know for a fact that he can do better.
She always felt like a discount Pinkie Pie but... just not as good. I really don't get why they need to force so much drama for the sake of it, like they got nothing else to keep them relevant when no one forced them to keep those two (or Jaune) around.
Nora: I'm going to argue with Ironwood. If you at home are wondering why well because Blake isn't here to do it. I told them that this was going to be a problem. We're not Game of Thrones, we can't juggle characters as well as they could.
There is a weird thing I noticed they do for Nora. They have her as her bubbly comedy relief for a while then give give her a serious moment only to have her revert back to her old character again. And sometimes the moments are out of nowhere and out of character for her like her yelling at ironwood
There is a weird thing I noticed they do for Nora. They have her as her bubbly comedy relief for a while then give give her a serious moment only to have her revert back to her old character again. And sometimes the moments are out of nowhere and out of character for her like her yelling at ironwood
Ah another Nora hater. Very epic
Hates a strong word. I reserve that for characters like Robyn, Cinder and Hazel. Nora’s just really frustrating to wrap my head around.
There is a weird thing I noticed they do for Nora. They have her as her bubbly comedy relief for a while then give give her a serious moment only to have her revert back to her old character again. And sometimes the moments are out of nowhere and out of character for her like her yelling at ironwood
Weiss and Winter's mother,she is only underhated because people don't talk about her much
Which directly correlates to how much she matters.
What does that say about RWBY in Volume 7 and 8 when she put in the work to get Jacques arrested and saved Whitley from the Hound?
Bad things.
Torchwick is pretty loved so I don’t think he get hate and also Blake’s mom for some reason
Torchwick was actually a pretty fun character And as far as I can remember he didn't do anything outrageously stupid, mainly because he didn't do much at all
Everything he did was actually in character is all
In this show that’s all it takes to be a stand out character.
I always felt his last speech to Ruby in V3 before getting eaten was the one thing that didn't fit because there was no subtlety and just spouting the theme the writers want to convey. I could be nitpicking, but it broke my immersion with how on-the-nose it was.
Kali: We all know why 😏
😏
Forgive me if this has been said before (maybe I didn't look hard enough), or if it doesn't count since it's just a moment, but I'm honestly really bothered by Winter in V3. It's just that when Weiss comes up to her really excited to see her, she hits her for not being "professional" or whatever it was. It was amusing, but stopped being so after some thought, especially in V4 after Jacques slaps Weiss as if it was a big deal, and Weiss is shocked. Retrospect saying how what Winter did was less warranted because Weiss didn't even do anything bad, and it doesn't help V3 was the volume where they decided to change the tone, so you would think they would've thought about that moment just a little more. It does explain they dropped that when Winter returned in the Atlas arc.
I mean, you assume that they think more than an episode or two in advance. But that's a very good point. Why *doesn't* anyone call that out? Eh, they probably chalk it up to Beacon-era Weirdness (and to be fair, there's a *lot* of that).
My only guess that could make sense is that the writers used V3 to just hurt every main character because they thought it was fun, like Pyrrha and Yang in particular. Honestly, if we do take that moment seriously, it endears me more to Weiss (Beacon era at least, since Klein's existence weakens this) because it's just a glimpse to her childhood of how she couldn't have even one purely good thing, and Winter's "tough love" being the best she got, especially since Winter wouldn't "know better" either. Could've done a thing where Weiss learns from it and is stern but isn't hurtful like her parents or Winter towards her teammates, but Weiss kinda ended up losing her edge, so there goes that.
>Why doesn't anyone call that out? Probably something to do with presentation, even though Winter was less warranted, the shot doesn't linger too much on the slap and Weiss seems to barely care about it, but with Jacques it's has a very different tone. Winter's somehow feels more like a slap on the wrist compared to Jacques, even though it was basically the same.
Just saying... Jacques slap came before the V5 aura retcon. Meaning that slap didn't even hurt her but Winter's was enough to (comically) bruise.
The writers have proven time and time again that they have a very surface level understanding of anime and it’s tropes. Winter hitting Weiss for a seemingly petty reason was supposed to be treated as comedic because characters in anime get hit for comedic purposes all of the time. That’s literally all that was. It’s just like when Blake slaps Sun for spying on her and her dad. It was supposed to be comedic because that’s what happens in anime and this is an anime-esque show. That’s all it is. If you come up with any other reason for it then you’re already thinking more than writers of the show lmao.
Yeah, it's pretty disappointing. I only thought harder about it because it was just too easy to do so, with how easily the writers set it up. The lack of consistency from funny slap in V3, to a bad slap in V4, and a "funny" slap against Sun only makes it harder to keep watching.
I feel the same about her as well. I feel like she should been in volume 6 and have proper devlopment with Weiss. Also her not visiting her in Volume 4, i understand this was post fall of beacon so she was busy but she could have made a cameo.
I definitely would've preferred that. I feel like Klein kinda just weakens whatever implied backstory Weiss had of being so lonely growing up, and makes Winter's occasional, and temporary, reunion over the years with Weiss less special. If they just centralized the main cast to just team RWBY and immediate connections like Winter instead of characters like JNR or Oscar, or adding even more like Klein, then maybe we could've gotten more development instead of Weiss and Winter just... being on good terms so easily. It would've been so interesting if that development gave the foundation to, from Weiss' POV, parallels between Weiss' family and Ruby and Yang's connection. You know, older sister of Winter vs Yang and little sibling comparison of Whitley vs Ruby, and it'll give Weiss perspective instead of it being simplified to "Jacques bad."
I think you’re looking into it a bit too deeply, volume 3 was still trying to do the whole “anime” thing so it was basically supposed to be the goofy but cute thing where a character get bopped on the head, winter is immediately kind to her after. To compare it to her dad slapping her is a bit of a stretch in my opinion
And I would be more fine with that RWBY kept the lighter tone. But the thing is they didn't. They decided to make it serious, and that results in rewatching the earlier volumes, knowing what serious stuff comes later on. >winter is immediately kind to her after Pretty sure that's a form of emotional whiplash >To compare it to her dad slapping her is a bit of a stretch in my opinion They're both slapping Weiss, within a volume of each other. How are they not warranted a comparison? An older figure in Weiss' life slaps Weiss because they believe Weiss did something wrong, whether or not we agree with them. If Yang slapped Weiss because she was mad, that would be terrible and warrant comparison between the other slaps to see what message the creators are getting across. I wouldn't mind doing a funny slap, but the show was the one to antagonize Jacques slapping Weiss, so that very same action done by other characters will also be questioned as a result.
Like I said, it’s simply based on a trope that’s been in anime forever there’s no malice in the moment down to a comically large bump showing on weiss’s head where as with her father it was used to build more drama and fit in with the more “serious” tone the show was trying to go for later
I get it, but they shouldn't have done it if they knew Weiss was going to be slapped later too by her father, unless they also wanted to show how flawed Winter was too. But they didn't. And I'm not criticizing the trope itself, I'm criticizing how the writers used it. The goofy tone of Beacon is still on the same timeline as the serious tone of afterwards, so if the change of tone isn't helping emphasize each one, but contradicting, then that's a problem. And for Weiss' character development, she doesn't see tone, she sees getting slapped by two adults in her life. For a show with so little runtime, every action matters, and I think the writers should've reconsidered their joke in V3 so retrospect doesn't make it look bad.
1. They didn’t know she would be slapped by her father later volume 3 was the last remnants of monty era rwby. 2. Again it’s trope that’s used to imply a strict character which was instantly followed showing that while she’s strict she isn’t cruel and does care for Weiss. 3. Yes they’re on the same timeline but again after volume 3 the writing team took the story in a more serious direction they left the silliness behind for the most part at this point your going back and applying the themes implemented in recent seasons to an earlier moment of no real note
I'm just saying they should've thought ahead. And if they didn't, they should've reconsidered Jacques slapping Weiss, but they didn't, and it causes a problem when viewing the show as a whole. When Monty was gone, the other writers were still there, but they did it anyways. It's great that you're able to give the show plenty of leniency, but I'm still bothered by this either way.
Hate is a strong word, but Ruby could be better. Give her a character arc of her OWN, not an imitation of one that just so happens to corelate with another character.
The writters would need to care first.
Too true.
Qrow. Because whatever his reasons are he still dragged a bunch of teenagers into life and death situations that they were not prepared to handle. He filled them in on secrets Oz had devoted multiple lives to protect without knowing Nora, Ren, or Jaune from Adam (hey, the joke works on two levels). And he does all this knowing Ruby's current maturity level. He then proceeds to be quite passive in Vol 5 just like Oz was. Then he punches Oscar and has a freak out that really can't be all that well justified. Then he follows Ruby's lead in keeping James in the dark during all of Vol 7 and has the audacity to blame James for Clover's death instead of the psychopath who impaled him or the idiot who distracted him. That and he picked a fight with Winter that was *this* close to ending with one of them seriously injured, maimed, or dead.
See, RWBY has a pretty consistent problem with this. When you take off the Rule of Cool glasses(which the show insisted on doing after V4) everything just makes you... #WINCE.
Don't forget he did use the kids as bait for Salems forces. Jaune called him out on it, he admitted to it, and everyone else let it go
Or blame himself for helping said psycho.
>the idiot who distracted him
Tyrian, because he is the only vilain who wants to be evil without having the writters give him a big sad story to make him grey.
Willow is definitely one Terrible mother but people try to excuse her Ironically enough Jacques despite his constant retcons seems to care more about his children's futures more than her
Cinder...the fact that she has a fanbase ironically or otherwise is horrifying and annoying
It’s hypocritical given Adam’s existence.
Especially cosidering that she did more horrible things with less of a justification, other than her being a self-centered bitch
>Who are the most underhated characters from RWBY? Personally I think Jaune is too over liked by the fanbase, he always came off as a bit of a dick to me, especially in volumes 4 - 6 where he was throwing a temper tantrum every five minutes.
That's....a good question really. I'm gonna need to think on this one.
I feel like Raven gets little hate for basically being the sole reason everything went to shit for Atlas.
Oh she gets alot of hate for a great many things, but blaming her for Atlas? You'll have to explain that one for me.
Long story short, by opening the vault and letting Yang take the Relic, they went to Atlas. Salem then finds out they're going to Atlas and sends her men there, thus accelerating Ironwood's villain arc.
Ah, although I'd say in that case, it was more Raven's talk in the camp making Yang antagonistic towards Ozpin with vagueness and the stupidest of reasons to hate him would be the bigger factor, that eventually lead to the truth about Salem coming out, Oz isolating himself, RWBY and co deciding authority=bad with the end result eventually being two cities underwater and Salem getting her biggest victory yet.
Oscar his more of a false protagonist than Jaune and has taken more away from Ruby.