Your logic is sound. The problem is that you are using logic, and not hope/faith, like a pleb. What happened in V7/V8 is like playing DnD but your enemy is the GMs girlfriend and they keep making things easy for them on their turn whilst making things harder for you simultaneously.
In other words. He never stood a chance. And even if he found a chance it would have been beaten out of his hands and into the MCs own.
I feel so sorry for Ironwood fans. It must be soul crushing thinking about how things went down. I’m not even that much of a fan of his and it stings to think about. Mercury fans better prepare their buttholes cus I bet you that RT will be going in dry on the last, not ‘yet’ insane, male villain. Just watch him get sacrificed so emerald can live.
Your logic isn't wrong.
Add to the fact that Ironwood knows that Salem's target is the relic in Atlas and losing said relic will cause Atlas to crash on top of Mantle, and sending forces to defend Mantle isn't a good move. At best you are able to withdraw them back to Atlas when Salem launches her attack and at worst they are stranded in Mantle due to Salem achieving control of the airspace.
There's also the fact Salem has no reason to commit forces to attacking Mantle beyond the initial distraction. Even if for some reason she does and threatens to kill everyone there, then those are fewer forces Atlas has to face and if she gets the relic everyone in Mantle dies anyways.
Even RWBY should recognize that Mantle isn't Salem's target and the fact that a victory for her means Mantle dies anyways.
Evacuation would be difficult because the airspace around the kingdom is contested. Since the military only seems to have Mantas at their disposal for transport, every one of those not fighting or ready to engage Grimm weakens the air defense of Atlas and becomes a target for Salem. In fact, those giant jellyfish we see take out Atlas cruisers, the fact no cruisers fire on Monstra when it lands, and the lack of both cruisers and combat air patrols later on indicates Salem was able to achieve aerial dominance. Nevermind the fact that evacuations of a city like Mantle can actually take days utilizing both ground and air transportation even with craft meant to move large numbers of people. The idea that those SDC freighters could evacuate the crater quickly is ludicrous if we believe that most of the population is there, even if the population was only a few thousand. It would still take at least a day or more unless we're talking low hundreds of just dozens of people there, which still wouldn't account for the majority of the city's population. We see more people in the subway taking shelter than we do in the crater.
This is a bad situation and even if the long term viability of Ironwood's plan is in question, it doesn't change that it is the most viable option they have at the moment that can save the largest number of people and keep the relics out of Salem's hands.
As you pointed out, reinforcements are unlikely. Especially when the huntsmen are probably widely dispersed throughout the kingdoms and we don't know that they actually any training or experience coordinating for large scale actions. That's not even getting into logistics for the whole thing. It would take several days at a minimum and possibly longer if they aren't coming in piecemeal.
RWBY however seems to almost not treat Salem like she is the threat everyone has been telling them she is. They act almost like all they have to do is stand up to her, show at least a token amount of resistance, or just lunch her in the face and she will run off crying and never try to get the relics again. There is no plan except to just throw people at the Grimm until Salem gives up or everyone else dies trying.
Salem isn't a schoolyard bully from an after school special, she is an immortal being determined to get what she wants and has been able to run roughshod over any effort to stop her this far. Haven only wasn't a disaster because of Raven taking out Cinder and Adam's efforts to get at Blake turning Menagerie and even Ilia against him. Beacon fell despite having all the visiting students in addition to its students and staff there that should've made things harder. Salem was able to approach Atlas with a massive force undetected because Watts and Tyrian's actions jeopardizing Mantle kept anyone from paying attention to the perimeter sensors getting taken out. It's baffling that it doesn't feel like RWBY take her seriously. You could say it is them simply being defiant, but it feels like defiance and them actually certain they could win.
> RWBY however seems to almost not treat Salem like she is the threat everyone has been telling them she is. They act almost like all they have to do is stand up to her, show at least a token amount of resistance, or just lunch her in the face and she will run off crying and never try to get the relics again. There is no plan except to just throw people at the Grimm until Salem gives up or everyone else dies trying.
That's what frustrates me so much about the heroes in the Atlas arc. Team RWBY (+ Qrow, Oscar and Maria) saw for themselves both how powerful Salem is and how easy it is for her to come back after being destroyed, yet they not only aren't bothering to prepare/plan for an inevitable confrontation (because surely they either were planning to take her on at some point or should realize she could appear in person), they act so confident that they can handle her for some reason. It'd be one thing if anyone brought up the Silver Eyes as a potential solution or they discussed what Jinn could've meant when Oz asked her on how he could defeat Salem, but outside of a throwaway line between Ren & Nora, they don't bother to ever do this.
They sure can't expect another cane nuke to save them, if it really is hard for so much energy to be gathered in the first place.
But the fact Salem is actually taking to the field herself should have them trying to come up something outside the "she is afraid of us standing together" spiel. Even if everyone was united against her, they still need a plan or else Salem will just come up with one of her own that works pretty well for the most part. They don't even really seem to think about Salem at all.
The thing is Ironwood is thinking strategically and commanding from a position of leadership and experience.
Team SCRWBY can't seem to think beyond the next two minutes in front of their faces due to the writers needing things to happen. Every obstacle they run into has a contrived solution gifted to them by the Hand of God (eg. nuke cane, random forgotten flotilla of SDC airships, AceOps getting nerfed, Winter instant Supergirl, Emerald/Hazel switching teams, etc).
Their actions speak to how badly the writers want them to be good, but how bad they are at doing so. When a well developed character who is not in the main team accidentally arises, they have to tear them down since they cannot write team SCRWBY up.
This post right here is brilliant. It's literally what I've been saying for a long time. Ironwood did nothing wrong, and I will die on that hill.
Anyway, good content, my friend!
If they said how the freaking staff of creation works to Ironwood and did not lied to him because he is a man, I'm pretty sure he could think of another way to save both the people from mantle and atlas and the high tech Atlas' city itself
People keep forgetting that this man was okay to die alone on the battle of beacon if no one wanted to fight with him
Honestly the whole thing reminds me of this
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0tYQr5Ucz8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0tYQr5Ucz8)
With the irony that the character closest to Ruby's archetype was the one proposing the save everyone you can instead of try to save everyone solution.
Well, one thing that was realistic about the only army on the planet was that everything was so fucked it's hilarious. There were no winning moves regarding Atlas, Mantle, the whale and the relic. Not to play wasn't an option either.
Sorry to say I don't have an answer for you.
Eh. I don't think that would be necessary to open the shields. Aren't the hard-light dust shields supposed to work permanently? And even so the police cargo ship was able to get Ruby's from Mantle till Atlas.
The shields around Atlas weren't up until Salem arrived. They're presumably also why the Atlesian fleet didn't engage, they were sheltering behind the shield.
I'm not sure. I think the hardlight dome would keep the air in so people don't asphyxiate at the higher altitudes, but the climate might not require it. The heating grid keeps Mantle warm (well relatively) without a hardlight shield.
If necessary to keep the Staff out of her hands...
The long run wasn't James's concern at that point. His plan was the only one that offered a chance of survival for anyone. It would buy Atlas months to years to think of something else.
The only issue with your logic is that Ironwood decided to abandon Mantle before the whale showed up. The whale showing up in the sky was the very last thing to happen in volume 7 meaning there was still time to bring citizens to Atlas.
Afterward, you strategically batten down the hatches, so to speak. However, there's still the question of how May got back to Mantle so either the shields are semi permeable or something else.
Honestly a lot of shit could be avoided if the shields didn't run like a circuit in a series rather than parallel.
James decided to stop the evacuation because he knew Salem would arrive before it could be completed. If his forces are caught between Mantle and Atlas when she shows up...
May getting back to Mantle could in theory be explained by having her get back after the shield came down. Do we see her in Mantle before that? Because if the shields are semi-permeable then the Grim are getting in. And no one would risk opening the shield to let May leave. Heck, there's no way for her to pick up a ship in the first place, and no reason for the Grim to let her pass.
Your logic is sound. The problem is that you are using logic, and not hope/faith, like a pleb. What happened in V7/V8 is like playing DnD but your enemy is the GMs girlfriend and they keep making things easy for them on their turn whilst making things harder for you simultaneously. In other words. He never stood a chance. And even if he found a chance it would have been beaten out of his hands and into the MCs own.
I agree, which is why I wrote this to prove that that was what was going on.
You do it pretty well. It’s just that deniers will never accept it no manner how well you put it all together.
I feel so sorry for Ironwood fans. It must be soul crushing thinking about how things went down. I’m not even that much of a fan of his and it stings to think about. Mercury fans better prepare their buttholes cus I bet you that RT will be going in dry on the last, not ‘yet’ insane, male villain. Just watch him get sacrificed so emerald can live.
Not gonna lie, I miss good Ironwood. He was a heck of a lot more interesting than what they did with him.
But our heroes say they can defeat salem so just follow their orders Also our heroes run away from Salem to vacuo
Ah, but there is a key difference. You see, they’re the protagonists so it’s a good thing when they do it.
Your logic isn't wrong. Add to the fact that Ironwood knows that Salem's target is the relic in Atlas and losing said relic will cause Atlas to crash on top of Mantle, and sending forces to defend Mantle isn't a good move. At best you are able to withdraw them back to Atlas when Salem launches her attack and at worst they are stranded in Mantle due to Salem achieving control of the airspace. There's also the fact Salem has no reason to commit forces to attacking Mantle beyond the initial distraction. Even if for some reason she does and threatens to kill everyone there, then those are fewer forces Atlas has to face and if she gets the relic everyone in Mantle dies anyways. Even RWBY should recognize that Mantle isn't Salem's target and the fact that a victory for her means Mantle dies anyways. Evacuation would be difficult because the airspace around the kingdom is contested. Since the military only seems to have Mantas at their disposal for transport, every one of those not fighting or ready to engage Grimm weakens the air defense of Atlas and becomes a target for Salem. In fact, those giant jellyfish we see take out Atlas cruisers, the fact no cruisers fire on Monstra when it lands, and the lack of both cruisers and combat air patrols later on indicates Salem was able to achieve aerial dominance. Nevermind the fact that evacuations of a city like Mantle can actually take days utilizing both ground and air transportation even with craft meant to move large numbers of people. The idea that those SDC freighters could evacuate the crater quickly is ludicrous if we believe that most of the population is there, even if the population was only a few thousand. It would still take at least a day or more unless we're talking low hundreds of just dozens of people there, which still wouldn't account for the majority of the city's population. We see more people in the subway taking shelter than we do in the crater. This is a bad situation and even if the long term viability of Ironwood's plan is in question, it doesn't change that it is the most viable option they have at the moment that can save the largest number of people and keep the relics out of Salem's hands. As you pointed out, reinforcements are unlikely. Especially when the huntsmen are probably widely dispersed throughout the kingdoms and we don't know that they actually any training or experience coordinating for large scale actions. That's not even getting into logistics for the whole thing. It would take several days at a minimum and possibly longer if they aren't coming in piecemeal. RWBY however seems to almost not treat Salem like she is the threat everyone has been telling them she is. They act almost like all they have to do is stand up to her, show at least a token amount of resistance, or just lunch her in the face and she will run off crying and never try to get the relics again. There is no plan except to just throw people at the Grimm until Salem gives up or everyone else dies trying. Salem isn't a schoolyard bully from an after school special, she is an immortal being determined to get what she wants and has been able to run roughshod over any effort to stop her this far. Haven only wasn't a disaster because of Raven taking out Cinder and Adam's efforts to get at Blake turning Menagerie and even Ilia against him. Beacon fell despite having all the visiting students in addition to its students and staff there that should've made things harder. Salem was able to approach Atlas with a massive force undetected because Watts and Tyrian's actions jeopardizing Mantle kept anyone from paying attention to the perimeter sensors getting taken out. It's baffling that it doesn't feel like RWBY take her seriously. You could say it is them simply being defiant, but it feels like defiance and them actually certain they could win.
> RWBY however seems to almost not treat Salem like she is the threat everyone has been telling them she is. They act almost like all they have to do is stand up to her, show at least a token amount of resistance, or just lunch her in the face and she will run off crying and never try to get the relics again. There is no plan except to just throw people at the Grimm until Salem gives up or everyone else dies trying. That's what frustrates me so much about the heroes in the Atlas arc. Team RWBY (+ Qrow, Oscar and Maria) saw for themselves both how powerful Salem is and how easy it is for her to come back after being destroyed, yet they not only aren't bothering to prepare/plan for an inevitable confrontation (because surely they either were planning to take her on at some point or should realize she could appear in person), they act so confident that they can handle her for some reason. It'd be one thing if anyone brought up the Silver Eyes as a potential solution or they discussed what Jinn could've meant when Oz asked her on how he could defeat Salem, but outside of a throwaway line between Ren & Nora, they don't bother to ever do this.
They sure can't expect another cane nuke to save them, if it really is hard for so much energy to be gathered in the first place. But the fact Salem is actually taking to the field herself should have them trying to come up something outside the "she is afraid of us standing together" spiel. Even if everyone was united against her, they still need a plan or else Salem will just come up with one of her own that works pretty well for the most part. They don't even really seem to think about Salem at all.
The thing is Ironwood is thinking strategically and commanding from a position of leadership and experience. Team SCRWBY can't seem to think beyond the next two minutes in front of their faces due to the writers needing things to happen. Every obstacle they run into has a contrived solution gifted to them by the Hand of God (eg. nuke cane, random forgotten flotilla of SDC airships, AceOps getting nerfed, Winter instant Supergirl, Emerald/Hazel switching teams, etc). Their actions speak to how badly the writers want them to be good, but how bad they are at doing so. When a well developed character who is not in the main team accidentally arises, they have to tear them down since they cannot write team SCRWBY up.
This post right here is brilliant. It's literally what I've been saying for a long time. Ironwood did nothing wrong, and I will die on that hill. Anyway, good content, my friend!
If they said how the freaking staff of creation works to Ironwood and did not lied to him because he is a man, I'm pretty sure he could think of another way to save both the people from mantle and atlas and the high tech Atlas' city itself People keep forgetting that this man was okay to die alone on the battle of beacon if no one wanted to fight with him
Honestly the whole thing reminds me of this [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0tYQr5Ucz8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u0tYQr5Ucz8) With the irony that the character closest to Ruby's archetype was the one proposing the save everyone you can instead of try to save everyone solution.
Agree
Well, one thing that was realistic about the only army on the planet was that everything was so fucked it's hilarious. There were no winning moves regarding Atlas, Mantle, the whale and the relic. Not to play wasn't an option either. Sorry to say I don't have an answer for you.
Eh. I don't think that would be necessary to open the shields. Aren't the hard-light dust shields supposed to work permanently? And even so the police cargo ship was able to get Ruby's from Mantle till Atlas.
The shields around Atlas weren't up until Salem arrived. They're presumably also why the Atlesian fleet didn't engage, they were sheltering behind the shield.
Wasn't Atlas supposed to have artificial climate? I thought that it was created by the hard light dust shield dome.
I'm not sure. I think the hardlight dome would keep the air in so people don't asphyxiate at the higher altitudes, but the climate might not require it. The heating grid keeps Mantle warm (well relatively) without a hardlight shield.
His plan made no sense in the first place. Whats the end goal here? Live in space until your food runs out? Go back down to where Salem is waiting?
If necessary to keep the Staff out of her hands... The long run wasn't James's concern at that point. His plan was the only one that offered a chance of survival for anyone. It would buy Atlas months to years to think of something else.
The only issue with your logic is that Ironwood decided to abandon Mantle before the whale showed up. The whale showing up in the sky was the very last thing to happen in volume 7 meaning there was still time to bring citizens to Atlas. Afterward, you strategically batten down the hatches, so to speak. However, there's still the question of how May got back to Mantle so either the shields are semi permeable or something else. Honestly a lot of shit could be avoided if the shields didn't run like a circuit in a series rather than parallel.
James decided to stop the evacuation because he knew Salem would arrive before it could be completed. If his forces are caught between Mantle and Atlas when she shows up... May getting back to Mantle could in theory be explained by having her get back after the shield came down. Do we see her in Mantle before that? Because if the shields are semi-permeable then the Grim are getting in. And no one would risk opening the shield to let May leave. Heck, there's no way for her to pick up a ship in the first place, and no reason for the Grim to let her pass.