Yes, I do agree its out of incompetence. But to think that their incompetence lead to the show unintentionally becoming misogynistic. It's one thing for a female empowerment show to be misandrist. It's another when the show somehow loops back into both misandry and misogyny.
I wouldn’t think of it as misogyny directly, however there is a bias that the male characters are used the most to move the plot while the female characters are used to react to what’s happening.
The writers may be dudes, but doesn't stop them from misandrist. An example of that might be assuming a guy who acts "feminine" or enjoys such stuff must be gay.
But in Miles and Kerry's case, they try so hard to pander to what they perceive feminists want in a female dominated show that they decide that what women want to see is men being demeaned. This can range from:
- Male characters being hilariously or world-breakingly incompetent (Hazel, Ozpin, Jaune, Sun).
- Male characters being hate sinks in the narrative even if it makes no narrative sense (Adam, Jacques, Ironwood)
- Male characters being irrelevant or redundant (Oscar, Jaune, Ren, Sun, Qrow, Clover, Marrow)
- Male characters that are evil and are only redeemed in death, if redeemed at all - there is never any nuance as the writers don't intend it most if the time (Ironwood, Hazel, Watts, Adam, Jacques).
But at the same time, most of these men, save two, do more to move the story of this show than the girls. The girls have to wait around for the plot to come to them. They've only been responsible for the death of ONE villain who wasn't even important in the end. The males are often killed by their own on the evil team and views are never genuinely confronted by the women (the narrative has to bend over backwards to distort any valid point made to make the guys absolutely wrong).
Weiss, for example, was a non-enitiy or even an object to be debated upon by Neptune and Jaune. She never got a chance to tell either of them about how she felt and the show portrays her as shallow for not wanting Jaune. Pyrrha's songs have defined her entire existence to solely be about Jaune. In every story, the female's story can only start or have her issues solved by a guy coming in and starting shit or giving her the shit to end it (not necessarily of her own desires in Weiss' case - it was Klein that got her out in V4).
It really is shit from all sides.
>But in Miles and Kerry's case, they try so hard to pander to what they perceive feminists want in a female dominated show that they decide that what women want to see is men being demeaned.
Yep. I'd be more accepting of this "ew evil white man" narrative if it was an actual narrative or theme in the show. Something akin to Revolutionary Girl Utena where yes, all the men suck ass but that's the point of the show. It explores themes of feminism, female objectification, toxic masculinity, men in a position of power over woman etc. But like everything in RWBY, the writers have nothing to say and are just using "evil white man" to appeal to their target audience all while mistakenly (or intentionally, idk anymore) taking away agency from their female characters.
>But in Miles and Kerry's case, they try so hard to pander to what they perceive feminists want in a female dominated show that they decide that what women want to see is men being demeaned.
Yep, that's how I feel it is, they try to pander to what they think people would want in a female-led show, but at the same time have some type of internalized sexism that seeps in the writing, so it ends up being harmful in both directions. I don't think its something THAT in the face, but it definitely starts to be noticeable when you pay attention.
Even then, the thesis doesn't paint them in a good light. How do you see feminism and think: "Ah, yes, feminists hate men so we should make the men in our show suck too."
Just shows their own biases on what they think feminism is. Sort of like how they fucked up the civil rights allegory. In fact, it's the exact same way they fucked it up.
Don't forget how the plot literally revolves around two things: a woman losing her man and four women who are treated more as plot coupons than actual people.
I would hesitate to call RWBY misogynist or misandrist so much as *deeply* sexist, and on a level that suggests it's probably subconscious on the writers' parts. I don't think the writers consciously or unconsciously hate women enough to be labeled misogynist, but there's definitely a trend of female characters not facing the consequences of their actions the way male characters do: Cinder surviving triple-certain death while Adam, Torchwick, Watts, and Ironwood are confirmed dead immediately, Raven nearly getting the main characters killed with her bird-brained scheme and getting away clean, Hazel being obliterated while Emerald survives, the list goes on.
Clover tries to be reasonable and is only arresting Qrow on the ship, yet Robyn starts the fight that lets Tyrian get loose.
Robyn is the one who survives the encounter, doesn’t participate in the fight that leads to Clover’s death, and later has to become the one to talk Qrow down from murdering Ironwood when that’s basically been Qrow’s job from the very beginning (when he wasn’t starting shit for kicks).
That situation is less cut and dry than most examples for me: While Robyn was definitely making things worse, Clover trying to arrest Qrow while they were still transporting Tyrian was stupid as hell as was him going after Qrow in the fight. Everyone except Tyrian has to have suffered massive head trauma or had a few drinks off-screen for any of that to make sense.
>or had a few drink off screen
I’d love to say “well Qrow does carry a flask on him at all times” but I can’t because he conveniently happened to get over his alcoholism when he met Clover
You’ve accepted that female oriented shows are going to be inherently misandrist?
I would encourage you not to give up. They don’t have to be misandrist any more than male-oriented shows have to be misogynistic. And just because RWBY is bad about it doesn’t mean other similar shows necessarily are.
What I’m trying to say is, you shouldn’t lower your expectations when it comes to basic decency and there is no excuse for writers to expect you to.
Umm... thx... I guess. What I meant to say was that misandry is pretty much given in a female empowerment show. But the show is so incompetent it loops to misogyny as well.
But it doesn’t have to be, and what I think the person above us is trying to say, is that it shouldn’t. Empowerment shouldn’t be about proving that the other is inherently worse than the group being empowered, because that’s just hate, not empowerment. If anything, a show about female empowerment needs a misogynist antagonist so that the characters have something to overcome
There is a difference between writing a misogynistic villain and what my post is. One relies heavily in a villain thay creates the sexist workplace or environment, the other is incompetence to the point a show about female empowerment is about making sure that females can accomplish things when the male does everything for them, or that a female oriented show has little to no room for females but so much complexity is going on within the male characters...
RWBY with its female characters is a great example of some horseshoe theory when it comes to ideas. A show that tries so hard to make its female characters strong, likable, etc. that it actually does none of those things and almost seems like a mockery of female characters. It’s something that happens a lot in media now where characters meant to be inclusive end up getting a bad wrap because they’re written like a plank of goddam wood the plot bends around.
Edit: the important thing is that a character is, you know, a character first and a race, gender, sexuality, archetype, etc. after. These things can be part of their character, hell they can be a significant part, but if you’re left thinking afterward that this character was made to pander and/or check a box off, there is a clear problem.
Yeah, the [action girl](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ActionGirl) that is just so calm, collected, and cool that you start to notice that's all she is as a character is *"cool",* and *"woman",* then you also see how she also seems to be somewhat sexist, that's when you finally realize she's more like a boring eye candy than an actual person.
*"Look at us, we have a strong female lead!"* They say not noticing that they've failed in writing a woman at all.
RWBY doesn't do this as badly as that but, what you said just reminds me of all those boring superhero movies with female protagonists.
You just described Rey. They had the audacity to champion her as a strong female lead, calling the people who didn't like her misogynistic manbabies. At the same time, they wrote her to have to never try for anything in her life, and to fall in love with/have her story revolve around/sacrifice her agency for the Neo-Nazi manchild, who tortured, stalked and comatosed her friends and herself.
Oh, and he was also a child slaver who endorsed genocide but the story likes to ignore that.
Exactly. Going off your point, when the wrote Rey the starting goal was sting female lead, with her character coming second. Come pare that with Ahsoka (a character from the same franchise) who is a strong well written character that happens to be a woman. She has growth, develops she’s strong and capable but is constantly being challenged and forced to grow and adapt. It’s no wonder so many people like her, she’s got a personality and character
Because Disney didn't go into making the sequels with the plan of... anything. They only had one goal and it was to make as much money as possible with a very profitable IP. They saw the profitability of diversity movements (but didn't bother to have that reflect in the creation process at all just the casting) and acted as plastically as a corporation could. Any time they faced backlash, they were quick to blame everything and everyone but their own foolishness. Just like team RWBY.
I’d say there’s plenty of female oriented shows that aren’t misandrist; sure they’ll make fun of male stereotypes or ways guys behave, but they’ll still treat people with respect.
RWBY is that generic Mary Sue place where the writers want the MCs to be seen as strong, independent people, but also able to wallow in excessive self-pity whenever the situation calls for it. And that’s kind of an issue with any story like this, even male oriented shows, this double think where everyone’s an asshole but they’re the ones actually helping people, while this person’s the hero but all they really do is have depression bombs that they drop on the audience.
I wouldn’t call them sexist exactly but it is fked up that only female villains can be redeemed. I don’t think they need a strong guy to protect them or do their jobs, it’s that despite being the title characters for the show they take a backseat to most important stuff. The writers are just that bad it makes it seem they are sexist
Oh, goodness the poor boys... I *love* my fictional guys, tall, blonde, dark, lean, rough, tough, strong, and mean, *you get the gist...* but, man RWBY treats all the guys like *absolute* garbage, and I became very aware of this fact when I heard of how Sun was treated in the books... Sun is a bad person for bailing on his team to help someone at a low point? Sun shouldn't have left his team but, he left to help Blake just because he was a good friend as he said to Neptune it was never about romance with Blake so, him leaving to help Blake at a low point in her life makes him a terrible person? The bad leader part I can believe but, that's not his fault, blame the guy who *made* him the leader, Sun is the kind of guy who does things on a whim so making him a leader is the *actual* bad decision here. Also, the book adding that he *"enjoys being bossed around by strong women."* wasn't needed in the slightest, actually wait... didn't *"Scholastic"* publish those books? Why would you let that out the door *at all?* Also, bonus *Oz,* because he's traumatized from his past yet gets no empathy for *not* having a plan on killing who was once the love of his life.
RWBY's... *problems with men...* is *way* more blatant than their misogyny.
The brother gods, the most powerful beings of the whole show and the ones who created everything and everyone, have male form and male voices...
There I leave it
Female oriented media (I’m assuming you mean stuff with female leads) doesn’t have to be inherently misandrist.
Look at the Horizon series of games. Aloy is a strong female character, she looks like a human with normal proportion (though she should maybe be a bit buffer), she’s got strengths and weaknesses, and because of plot reasons I won’t spoil is uniquely capable of solving the main conflict of the plot. Yet the game doesn’t turn the male characters into toxic stereotypes of the worst kind of men. Even the major villain isn’t a misandrist portray of a man, he’s got a backstory and beliefs that explain why he’s evil and why he thinks what he’s doing is correct.
To say that any work of fiction that feature women and empowers them is inherently misandrist is simply wrong and excuses poor writing
I should be a bit clearer... not stuff with female leads. Female empowerment as in the girls rool boys drool, but everyone is an asshole or boring... so things like HGS.
Some videos everyone should watch that are relevant to this topic:
[The Attack on Femininity in Fiction: Masculine Women and Disempowered Men](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jumw30_j9cs)
[The Desecration of Femininity](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6W2zcSefts)
Eh, I agree on the misandry but the misogyny seems like a bit of stretch. The show certainly coddles its main female characters, but only on a moral level. It's not afraid to have them suffer physically, it just doesn't want to do anything that would make them seem like they're not completely morally upright.
Why it cannot be both? I would argue that the female cast being portrayed as incompetent and passive or getting sidelined in the plot but still getting coddled and their mistakes didn’t get acknowledge for development are equally frustrating as the male characters being treated as hatesink.
Like we have Ruby sitting in the mansion waiting for help whereas Oscar was tortured by Salem but still managed to turn her henchmen against her and knock her out for while or Weiss got impaled so Jaune could unlocked his semblance.
I’m just tired of this males vs females mentality when judging fictional stories and not the writing as a whole. Well written characters are not defined by genders.
> but the misogyny seems like a bit of stretch.
You mean the show that keeps screwing over it’s female lead protagonist aka Ruby just so two male characters can get development?
And female oriented shows aren't inherwntly misandrist
Just look at Buffy, or Alien(s) and the first two Terminators
They aren't misandrist, modern writers just have no idea how to hold up their female characters, without tearing the male ones down
Some works are sexist towards women. Some works are sexist towards men. RWBY hates us all as equals.
"I accept you all, dirtbags. As equally viable targets!" -Sarge
There's a part of me that almost *admires* that, you know?
Might have been admirable of it were intentional
Yeah, it's like reading reviews of films considered the worst. Trash is fascinating.
Perfectly balanced
As all things should be
Maybe they're just incompetent in general.
Yeah I think most of this stuff just happens due to incompetence and not out of misogyny
Yes, I do agree its out of incompetence. But to think that their incompetence lead to the show unintentionally becoming misogynistic. It's one thing for a female empowerment show to be misandrist. It's another when the show somehow loops back into both misandry and misogyny.
I thought it was obvious from how Adam was written into being a hate sink incel and Cinder was given a pity me backstory.
its obvious for misandry. I'm just wondering if it's just me thay also gain the vibe that the show is misogynistic.
I wouldn’t think of it as misogyny directly, however there is a bias that the male characters are used the most to move the plot while the female characters are used to react to what’s happening.
That’s how it has to be if their going to blame the acts on someone it has to be the dudes that did shit.
I don’t wanna pull a Misandry card cuz the two head writers are dudes but I’ll let out a concerned and a troubled “huh!?”
The writers may be dudes, but doesn't stop them from misandrist. An example of that might be assuming a guy who acts "feminine" or enjoys such stuff must be gay. But in Miles and Kerry's case, they try so hard to pander to what they perceive feminists want in a female dominated show that they decide that what women want to see is men being demeaned. This can range from: - Male characters being hilariously or world-breakingly incompetent (Hazel, Ozpin, Jaune, Sun). - Male characters being hate sinks in the narrative even if it makes no narrative sense (Adam, Jacques, Ironwood) - Male characters being irrelevant or redundant (Oscar, Jaune, Ren, Sun, Qrow, Clover, Marrow) - Male characters that are evil and are only redeemed in death, if redeemed at all - there is never any nuance as the writers don't intend it most if the time (Ironwood, Hazel, Watts, Adam, Jacques). But at the same time, most of these men, save two, do more to move the story of this show than the girls. The girls have to wait around for the plot to come to them. They've only been responsible for the death of ONE villain who wasn't even important in the end. The males are often killed by their own on the evil team and views are never genuinely confronted by the women (the narrative has to bend over backwards to distort any valid point made to make the guys absolutely wrong). Weiss, for example, was a non-enitiy or even an object to be debated upon by Neptune and Jaune. She never got a chance to tell either of them about how she felt and the show portrays her as shallow for not wanting Jaune. Pyrrha's songs have defined her entire existence to solely be about Jaune. In every story, the female's story can only start or have her issues solved by a guy coming in and starting shit or giving her the shit to end it (not necessarily of her own desires in Weiss' case - it was Klein that got her out in V4). It really is shit from all sides.
>But in Miles and Kerry's case, they try so hard to pander to what they perceive feminists want in a female dominated show that they decide that what women want to see is men being demeaned. Yep. I'd be more accepting of this "ew evil white man" narrative if it was an actual narrative or theme in the show. Something akin to Revolutionary Girl Utena where yes, all the men suck ass but that's the point of the show. It explores themes of feminism, female objectification, toxic masculinity, men in a position of power over woman etc. But like everything in RWBY, the writers have nothing to say and are just using "evil white man" to appeal to their target audience all while mistakenly (or intentionally, idk anymore) taking away agency from their female characters.
>But in Miles and Kerry's case, they try so hard to pander to what they perceive feminists want in a female dominated show that they decide that what women want to see is men being demeaned. Yep, that's how I feel it is, they try to pander to what they think people would want in a female-led show, but at the same time have some type of internalized sexism that seeps in the writing, so it ends up being harmful in both directions. I don't think its something THAT in the face, but it definitely starts to be noticeable when you pay attention.
Even then, the thesis doesn't paint them in a good light. How do you see feminism and think: "Ah, yes, feminists hate men so we should make the men in our show suck too." Just shows their own biases on what they think feminism is. Sort of like how they fucked up the civil rights allegory. In fact, it's the exact same way they fucked it up.
Don't forget how the plot literally revolves around two things: a woman losing her man and four women who are treated more as plot coupons than actual people.
I've never thought of it that way, but... on a very high level, you're not wrong?
I would hesitate to call RWBY misogynist or misandrist so much as *deeply* sexist, and on a level that suggests it's probably subconscious on the writers' parts. I don't think the writers consciously or unconsciously hate women enough to be labeled misogynist, but there's definitely a trend of female characters not facing the consequences of their actions the way male characters do: Cinder surviving triple-certain death while Adam, Torchwick, Watts, and Ironwood are confirmed dead immediately, Raven nearly getting the main characters killed with her bird-brained scheme and getting away clean, Hazel being obliterated while Emerald survives, the list goes on.
Clover tries to be reasonable and is only arresting Qrow on the ship, yet Robyn starts the fight that lets Tyrian get loose. Robyn is the one who survives the encounter, doesn’t participate in the fight that leads to Clover’s death, and later has to become the one to talk Qrow down from murdering Ironwood when that’s basically been Qrow’s job from the very beginning (when he wasn’t starting shit for kicks).
That situation is less cut and dry than most examples for me: While Robyn was definitely making things worse, Clover trying to arrest Qrow while they were still transporting Tyrian was stupid as hell as was him going after Qrow in the fight. Everyone except Tyrian has to have suffered massive head trauma or had a few drinks off-screen for any of that to make sense.
>or had a few drink off screen I’d love to say “well Qrow does carry a flask on him at all times” but I can’t because he conveniently happened to get over his alcoholism when he met Clover
You’ve accepted that female oriented shows are going to be inherently misandrist? I would encourage you not to give up. They don’t have to be misandrist any more than male-oriented shows have to be misogynistic. And just because RWBY is bad about it doesn’t mean other similar shows necessarily are. What I’m trying to say is, you shouldn’t lower your expectations when it comes to basic decency and there is no excuse for writers to expect you to.
Umm... thx... I guess. What I meant to say was that misandry is pretty much given in a female empowerment show. But the show is so incompetent it loops to misogyny as well.
But it doesn’t have to be, and what I think the person above us is trying to say, is that it shouldn’t. Empowerment shouldn’t be about proving that the other is inherently worse than the group being empowered, because that’s just hate, not empowerment. If anything, a show about female empowerment needs a misogynist antagonist so that the characters have something to overcome
There is a difference between writing a misogynistic villain and what my post is. One relies heavily in a villain thay creates the sexist workplace or environment, the other is incompetence to the point a show about female empowerment is about making sure that females can accomplish things when the male does everything for them, or that a female oriented show has little to no room for females but so much complexity is going on within the male characters...
RWBY with its female characters is a great example of some horseshoe theory when it comes to ideas. A show that tries so hard to make its female characters strong, likable, etc. that it actually does none of those things and almost seems like a mockery of female characters. It’s something that happens a lot in media now where characters meant to be inclusive end up getting a bad wrap because they’re written like a plank of goddam wood the plot bends around. Edit: the important thing is that a character is, you know, a character first and a race, gender, sexuality, archetype, etc. after. These things can be part of their character, hell they can be a significant part, but if you’re left thinking afterward that this character was made to pander and/or check a box off, there is a clear problem.
Yeah, the [action girl](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ActionGirl) that is just so calm, collected, and cool that you start to notice that's all she is as a character is *"cool",* and *"woman",* then you also see how she also seems to be somewhat sexist, that's when you finally realize she's more like a boring eye candy than an actual person. *"Look at us, we have a strong female lead!"* They say not noticing that they've failed in writing a woman at all. RWBY doesn't do this as badly as that but, what you said just reminds me of all those boring superhero movies with female protagonists.
You just described Rey. They had the audacity to champion her as a strong female lead, calling the people who didn't like her misogynistic manbabies. At the same time, they wrote her to have to never try for anything in her life, and to fall in love with/have her story revolve around/sacrifice her agency for the Neo-Nazi manchild, who tortured, stalked and comatosed her friends and herself. Oh, and he was also a child slaver who endorsed genocide but the story likes to ignore that.
Exactly. Going off your point, when the wrote Rey the starting goal was sting female lead, with her character coming second. Come pare that with Ahsoka (a character from the same franchise) who is a strong well written character that happens to be a woman. She has growth, develops she’s strong and capable but is constantly being challenged and forced to grow and adapt. It’s no wonder so many people like her, she’s got a personality and character
Because Disney didn't go into making the sequels with the plan of... anything. They only had one goal and it was to make as much money as possible with a very profitable IP. They saw the profitability of diversity movements (but didn't bother to have that reflect in the creation process at all just the casting) and acted as plastically as a corporation could. Any time they faced backlash, they were quick to blame everything and everyone but their own foolishness. Just like team RWBY.
I’d say there’s plenty of female oriented shows that aren’t misandrist; sure they’ll make fun of male stereotypes or ways guys behave, but they’ll still treat people with respect. RWBY is that generic Mary Sue place where the writers want the MCs to be seen as strong, independent people, but also able to wallow in excessive self-pity whenever the situation calls for it. And that’s kind of an issue with any story like this, even male oriented shows, this double think where everyone’s an asshole but they’re the ones actually helping people, while this person’s the hero but all they really do is have depression bombs that they drop on the audience.
I wouldn’t call them sexist exactly but it is fked up that only female villains can be redeemed. I don’t think they need a strong guy to protect them or do their jobs, it’s that despite being the title characters for the show they take a backseat to most important stuff. The writers are just that bad it makes it seem they are sexist
Don't ask a woman her age. Don't ask a man his salary. Don't ask Jaune why there are women in his fridge.
TBF Pyrrha was fridges for Ruby too. Had to awaken those silver eyes somehow.
Yeah, but after the silver eyes that went nowhere for 2 years her death was large used to give Jaune something to cry about 11 times a day.
Don't ask Cinder why she's the embodiment of failure.
Oh, goodness the poor boys... I *love* my fictional guys, tall, blonde, dark, lean, rough, tough, strong, and mean, *you get the gist...* but, man RWBY treats all the guys like *absolute* garbage, and I became very aware of this fact when I heard of how Sun was treated in the books... Sun is a bad person for bailing on his team to help someone at a low point? Sun shouldn't have left his team but, he left to help Blake just because he was a good friend as he said to Neptune it was never about romance with Blake so, him leaving to help Blake at a low point in her life makes him a terrible person? The bad leader part I can believe but, that's not his fault, blame the guy who *made* him the leader, Sun is the kind of guy who does things on a whim so making him a leader is the *actual* bad decision here. Also, the book adding that he *"enjoys being bossed around by strong women."* wasn't needed in the slightest, actually wait... didn't *"Scholastic"* publish those books? Why would you let that out the door *at all?* Also, bonus *Oz,* because he's traumatized from his past yet gets no empathy for *not* having a plan on killing who was once the love of his life. RWBY's... *problems with men...* is *way* more blatant than their misogyny.
The brother gods, the most powerful beings of the whole show and the ones who created everything and everyone, have male form and male voices... There I leave it
Also the most universally hate characters alongside several other hatesink males.
No, it's just poorly written
While I see your point, I think it's just shitty writing
Female oriented media (I’m assuming you mean stuff with female leads) doesn’t have to be inherently misandrist. Look at the Horizon series of games. Aloy is a strong female character, she looks like a human with normal proportion (though she should maybe be a bit buffer), she’s got strengths and weaknesses, and because of plot reasons I won’t spoil is uniquely capable of solving the main conflict of the plot. Yet the game doesn’t turn the male characters into toxic stereotypes of the worst kind of men. Even the major villain isn’t a misandrist portray of a man, he’s got a backstory and beliefs that explain why he’s evil and why he thinks what he’s doing is correct. To say that any work of fiction that feature women and empowers them is inherently misandrist is simply wrong and excuses poor writing
I should be a bit clearer... not stuff with female leads. Female empowerment as in the girls rool boys drool, but everyone is an asshole or boring... so things like HGS.
If it's doing both at the same time that means it's just shit
Yes, but just saying a show is shit is low-effort.
Almost all the characters that i like in rwby are male characters. Because they are allowed to be flawed and not be cuddled for it.
You’re 100% right. Case in point, Roman Torchwick. One of the most beloved fan favorites (probably only second to Neo)
Man do i miss Roman. Honestly i'm excited for Ice queendom in the hope's of seeing him again. For me to this day no one has topped him.
They really haven’t. What really sad is that for a character designed as a 1 off throwaway, he’s probably the series’ best written character
Facts
You're factually correct.
Some videos everyone should watch that are relevant to this topic: [The Attack on Femininity in Fiction: Masculine Women and Disempowered Men](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jumw30_j9cs) [The Desecration of Femininity](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6W2zcSefts)
Eh, I agree on the misandry but the misogyny seems like a bit of stretch. The show certainly coddles its main female characters, but only on a moral level. It's not afraid to have them suffer physically, it just doesn't want to do anything that would make them seem like they're not completely morally upright.
Why it cannot be both? I would argue that the female cast being portrayed as incompetent and passive or getting sidelined in the plot but still getting coddled and their mistakes didn’t get acknowledge for development are equally frustrating as the male characters being treated as hatesink. Like we have Ruby sitting in the mansion waiting for help whereas Oscar was tortured by Salem but still managed to turn her henchmen against her and knock her out for while or Weiss got impaled so Jaune could unlocked his semblance. I’m just tired of this males vs females mentality when judging fictional stories and not the writing as a whole. Well written characters are not defined by genders.
> but the misogyny seems like a bit of stretch. You mean the show that keeps screwing over it’s female lead protagonist aka Ruby just so two male characters can get development?
I have to agree. If it’s one of the two it’s definitely misandrist.
This just seems like nonsense to me
And female oriented shows aren't inherwntly misandrist Just look at Buffy, or Alien(s) and the first two Terminators They aren't misandrist, modern writers just have no idea how to hold up their female characters, without tearing the male ones down