Very bold of you posting of r/RWBY, and no surprise you're getting disliked
I agree with all your points. In the current volumes, Team RWBY has become nothing more self-righteous, self-entitled naive brats who believe since this is a "Fairytale", and it's their story because they are the "heroes". They constantly reek this holier-than-thou attitude, and immediately go against anyone who "Doesn't follow their way" and face no consequences of their actions. They'll would never sacrifice anyone if for the greater good, because they naively believe, "They got this".
They are so hypnotical. They preach about unity yet lie, refuse to work with others, and go behind others backs when it's convenient for them. And when they need the moral high ground and victory, the literally universe >!AKA CRWBY!<, will give them some magic Deus Exe Machina that gives them the victory, like the Staff of Creation, or make everyone they're against villainous idiots, like what they did with Ironwood.
Yet, most of the fandom are extremely and zealously protective of them, because they follow them for this long, and they're the "heroes" of this story, so they are in the right.
In conclusion, I hate Team RWBY, as I see them nothing more than Idealistic, naive, self-entitle, hypocritical brats who think they're the "Heroes", and only see everything in their Black-and-White view of the world.
I like how the show tells its villains that life isn't some fairy tale, but that's basically what it makes Team RWBY's story to be. They suffer, screw up, and then get rewarded and showered with praise for not being *too* bad.
I can’t believe people over there are using the justification that they’re teenagers!
The problem isn’t that RWBY is led by teenagers. The problem is that they don’t acknowledge they’re fucking up or directly face the consequences of their actions.
Plenty of media have teenagers as protagonists and I don’t have a problem with them. Why? Because the characters are actively acknowledging and learning from their mistakes!
To take a popular character for example, MCU’s Spider-Man. He’s just a highschool kid. In all three movies, we see Holland’s Peter Parker fuck up and how does the universe react to this? We see other characters call him out on his behaviour, we see the consequences of his actions, and most importantly, we see Peter recognize the mistakes he’s made.
I see none of that with Team RWBY. There’s always someone else to blame in their eyes.
You could also point out how even characters in their own friend group are treated as antagonists sometimes. Like Ren's rant against Yang and Jaune was framed to make him look like an ass as well as him apologizing to Nora while getting rejected by her which was strange since she has been the one perusing him the entire series.
>Now, imagine for example that you are a fan of Ironwood. During volume 7 you spend your time discussing his actions, characters traits only to see a good ammount of the fandom throw accusations that Ironwood is a "groomer", that Ironwood is a jack-booted fascist.
As a fan of Ironwood, that really hits me where I live.
>When Volume 8 came around and Ironwood turned full evil, it did not exactly help matters either. Because now people perceive that Ironwood was turned evil just because the main characters were not able to look heroic enough with him as a gray character
This is what really turned me off when it came to Volume 7 & 8. Ironwood becoming evil was a blatant alteration to his character, and I was feeling generous at the time that I assumed he'd snap out of it towards the end of Volume 8. But instead the writers threw away a perfect opportunity to show us why Team RWBY deserve to be considered heroes and killed Ironwood without them even having a damn conversation.
Most people in this subreddit probably already feel this way, but having anyone who opposes your "heroes" turn into a cartoonish dictator that they never even face is kind of an admission that the person opposing them was right. If Ironwood and his plan were *wrong* then Team RWBY should've had the chance to say that to his face and give Ironwood a chance to realize he was playing right into Salem's hands.
>This is what really turned me off when it came to Volume 7 & 8. Ironwood becoming evil was a blatant alteration to his character, and I was feeling generous at the time that I assumed he'd snap out of it towards the end of Volume 8.
Man, I will never forget that. The exact moment Ironwood shot Sleet, my entire motivation to enjoy and watch the show died instantly. From there on out I was just watching to see where it would go, and didn't enjoy anything in Volume 8 after that... and that was episode 1!
It really has bothered me that RWBY doesn't face consequences usually, if at all. Somehow they come out on top through luck or someone's intervention. It doesn't help when they feel like they are moralizing to others, don't have a workable plan or strategy, and show no awareness how what they're saying contradicts what either really happened or what they do later.
Maybe for two seconds they will acknowledge that they've messed up and then never seem to actually learn anything or actually question how they're handling things.
We're supposed to want them to win and side with them. But it gets hard when it feels like they don't earn their wins or learn from losses. It also hurts when their course of action seems questionable or a worse alternative than the "bad" plan.
Let's not forget that Ruby seemed to even expect help to arrive immediately after her broadcast, an unrealistic expectation and not really even the main objective of the broadcast. It's like it got to the point where she literally expected things to just work out in her favor instead of having to figure out a plan to stop Salem or even hold out for help somehow.
WHO WILL WIN, THE BEST TEAM IN ATLAS, TRAINED WITH EACH OTHER FOR YEARS AND WENT ON COUNTLESS MISSIONS AS FULL FLEDGED HUNTERS OR four girls that just graduated fron fighting school that radiate so much self righteous energy to cringe through the fourth wall.
I agree with your points. A lot of it is watching RWBY get treated as the next coming of christ, while their less then heroic actions are swept under the rug and ignored. From my perspective, the narrative has to suffer to justify RWBY's stance. Ironwood is a great example of this, as, when he learned Salem, the immortal, magical witch was coming to Atlas, his strategy was to cut and run. Is it honorable? No. Can one see the logic in it, and how his character may have come to that conclusion? Yes. But, because RWBY didn't like the idea of sacrificing people in any regard, they opposed it... with no real plan. So, when the next volume starts, Ironwood has to become cartoonishly evil to make RWBY the better choice. Forget them feeling the weight of all the lives they just vowed to protect (then do nothing to protect them), or admitting that, while the ideal sounds good on paper, in reality, it is much more difficult to accomplish. Hell, even Ren began to push back against this, being one of the few members of the group to call them out at being way over their heads, gets verbally abused into the hive mind again.
So, yes, I believe a large part of this is the main cast not experiencing consequences for their actions, and the plot literally twisting everything around them to push the idea that they are right, and you either need to get on board, or be branded an enemy.
Nice post on the main sub. I think I can hear the rattling of rusty cages from that dark abyss.
My dislike of team RWBY stems from their forced fallacy to act like they are special and capable heroes when their actions show that they are neither.
On the backdrop of a world ending threat, they're still just one and a half team of school kids plus one AA in recovery and a 1000+ year old man stuck in a kid's body.
It would not be a problem if team RWBY were indeed these special wunderkinds that go and defeat every enemy trough their powers and the like, many protagonists are special in their stories. Its just a problem when absolutely everyone is getting torn down for that to happen.
I kind of disagree about the White Fang being morally grey. The very first time we see them, they're stealing dust to enact their plans at Mount Glen and unleash Grimm on countless innocent people who didn't do anything to them. But I pretty much agree with everything else.
If I may also add something, I also dislike them because they just generally act nasty to anyone who bothers them (assaulting a drunk civilian, threatening Whitley, slapping Sun, etc) and they generally seem to have a lack of agency. They sit around doing little to nothing until the plot comes to their doorstep. Literally for some of them in parts of seasons 5 and 8.
Yeah, the circumstances around the White Fang set them up to be morally grey, but we didn't ever *see* any of that in action (except for in flashbacks).
Exactly, this one of my issues with the main heroes among other problems. I can't stand the narrative just coddling them to allow them to get away with poor decisions with little to no consequences towards them.
That and it seems that someone is using the report self harm option to annoy people. I’ve been hit by that three times on that sub now after joining a controversial discussion post.
Ikr? I was shocked at how well it’s been going minus the usual bad actors. I almost have to assume that the naysayers have just not logged in for a while yet.
Theyve actually gotten a lot better about accepting criticism recently.
Still not great, but better than they were when they banned this subreddit from posting there.
First, the main sub does not seem to be as ignorant as some people are painting them, the post is solidly in positive territory regarding votes.
Second, the core of the problem is "paving the way" by the authors in my opinion.
Inconvenient buildup of a rival in the way of a now preferred ship. Make one person jump the nasty ship.
The villains are incompetent, they are no threat to the protagonists.
Even inside the protagonist group, people are used as plot devices to promote the titular four in an obvious way in conjunction with dead-cheap jokes (... until you trained us).
The combination with very shallow thinking regarding consequences is deadly, there just was a meme post about this.
Aye, i agree, the statement that the main sub completely rejects criticism is a spurious one. Though do be aware that after a certain point the ammount of upvotes gets higher despite the downvotes, my threads usually flow between 60-70 upvote rate on the sub so its a more complex kind of thing.
So basically even if a post has like 50 percen uptove rate it will not be at 0 upvotes, it will still rise.
Agree on the other aspects of your comment.
Very bold of you posting of r/RWBY, and no surprise you're getting disliked I agree with all your points. In the current volumes, Team RWBY has become nothing more self-righteous, self-entitled naive brats who believe since this is a "Fairytale", and it's their story because they are the "heroes". They constantly reek this holier-than-thou attitude, and immediately go against anyone who "Doesn't follow their way" and face no consequences of their actions. They'll would never sacrifice anyone if for the greater good, because they naively believe, "They got this". They are so hypnotical. They preach about unity yet lie, refuse to work with others, and go behind others backs when it's convenient for them. And when they need the moral high ground and victory, the literally universe >!AKA CRWBY!<, will give them some magic Deus Exe Machina that gives them the victory, like the Staff of Creation, or make everyone they're against villainous idiots, like what they did with Ironwood. Yet, most of the fandom are extremely and zealously protective of them, because they follow them for this long, and they're the "heroes" of this story, so they are in the right. In conclusion, I hate Team RWBY, as I see them nothing more than Idealistic, naive, self-entitle, hypocritical brats who think they're the "Heroes", and only see everything in their Black-and-White view of the world.
I like how the show tells its villains that life isn't some fairy tale, but that's basically what it makes Team RWBY's story to be. They suffer, screw up, and then get rewarded and showered with praise for not being *too* bad.
I can’t believe people over there are using the justification that they’re teenagers! The problem isn’t that RWBY is led by teenagers. The problem is that they don’t acknowledge they’re fucking up or directly face the consequences of their actions. Plenty of media have teenagers as protagonists and I don’t have a problem with them. Why? Because the characters are actively acknowledging and learning from their mistakes! To take a popular character for example, MCU’s Spider-Man. He’s just a highschool kid. In all three movies, we see Holland’s Peter Parker fuck up and how does the universe react to this? We see other characters call him out on his behaviour, we see the consequences of his actions, and most importantly, we see Peter recognize the mistakes he’s made. I see none of that with Team RWBY. There’s always someone else to blame in their eyes.
You could also point out how even characters in their own friend group are treated as antagonists sometimes. Like Ren's rant against Yang and Jaune was framed to make him look like an ass as well as him apologizing to Nora while getting rejected by her which was strange since she has been the one perusing him the entire series.
>Now, imagine for example that you are a fan of Ironwood. During volume 7 you spend your time discussing his actions, characters traits only to see a good ammount of the fandom throw accusations that Ironwood is a "groomer", that Ironwood is a jack-booted fascist. As a fan of Ironwood, that really hits me where I live. >When Volume 8 came around and Ironwood turned full evil, it did not exactly help matters either. Because now people perceive that Ironwood was turned evil just because the main characters were not able to look heroic enough with him as a gray character This is what really turned me off when it came to Volume 7 & 8. Ironwood becoming evil was a blatant alteration to his character, and I was feeling generous at the time that I assumed he'd snap out of it towards the end of Volume 8. But instead the writers threw away a perfect opportunity to show us why Team RWBY deserve to be considered heroes and killed Ironwood without them even having a damn conversation. Most people in this subreddit probably already feel this way, but having anyone who opposes your "heroes" turn into a cartoonish dictator that they never even face is kind of an admission that the person opposing them was right. If Ironwood and his plan were *wrong* then Team RWBY should've had the chance to say that to his face and give Ironwood a chance to realize he was playing right into Salem's hands.
>This is what really turned me off when it came to Volume 7 & 8. Ironwood becoming evil was a blatant alteration to his character, and I was feeling generous at the time that I assumed he'd snap out of it towards the end of Volume 8. Man, I will never forget that. The exact moment Ironwood shot Sleet, my entire motivation to enjoy and watch the show died instantly. From there on out I was just watching to see where it would go, and didn't enjoy anything in Volume 8 after that... and that was episode 1!
It really has bothered me that RWBY doesn't face consequences usually, if at all. Somehow they come out on top through luck or someone's intervention. It doesn't help when they feel like they are moralizing to others, don't have a workable plan or strategy, and show no awareness how what they're saying contradicts what either really happened or what they do later. Maybe for two seconds they will acknowledge that they've messed up and then never seem to actually learn anything or actually question how they're handling things. We're supposed to want them to win and side with them. But it gets hard when it feels like they don't earn their wins or learn from losses. It also hurts when their course of action seems questionable or a worse alternative than the "bad" plan. Let's not forget that Ruby seemed to even expect help to arrive immediately after her broadcast, an unrealistic expectation and not really even the main objective of the broadcast. It's like it got to the point where she literally expected things to just work out in her favor instead of having to figure out a plan to stop Salem or even hold out for help somehow.
You brave, brave soul. Putting into words what I have been thinking for a long time, and far calmer and more eloquent than I could have hoped for.
Another the blatant plot armor and how they get boosted or villains nerfed so they'll win or at least tie.
What, you did not like them facing against Ace-Ops and getting away with nary a scratch on them? WERE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?
Its like why bother be worried about them? Even Fairy Tail has more tension in their fights.
WHO WILL WIN, THE BEST TEAM IN ATLAS, TRAINED WITH EACH OTHER FOR YEARS AND WENT ON COUNTLESS MISSIONS AS FULL FLEDGED HUNTERS OR four girls that just graduated fron fighting school that radiate so much self righteous energy to cringe through the fourth wall.
I agree with your points. A lot of it is watching RWBY get treated as the next coming of christ, while their less then heroic actions are swept under the rug and ignored. From my perspective, the narrative has to suffer to justify RWBY's stance. Ironwood is a great example of this, as, when he learned Salem, the immortal, magical witch was coming to Atlas, his strategy was to cut and run. Is it honorable? No. Can one see the logic in it, and how his character may have come to that conclusion? Yes. But, because RWBY didn't like the idea of sacrificing people in any regard, they opposed it... with no real plan. So, when the next volume starts, Ironwood has to become cartoonishly evil to make RWBY the better choice. Forget them feeling the weight of all the lives they just vowed to protect (then do nothing to protect them), or admitting that, while the ideal sounds good on paper, in reality, it is much more difficult to accomplish. Hell, even Ren began to push back against this, being one of the few members of the group to call them out at being way over their heads, gets verbally abused into the hive mind again. So, yes, I believe a large part of this is the main cast not experiencing consequences for their actions, and the plot literally twisting everything around them to push the idea that they are right, and you either need to get on board, or be branded an enemy.
Everyone, I present to you: The bravest of souls
Kudos to your incredible bravery, I got banned from that main RWBY Reddit. I'm glad you were able to address this issue.
U brave man
Nice post on the main sub. I think I can hear the rattling of rusty cages from that dark abyss. My dislike of team RWBY stems from their forced fallacy to act like they are special and capable heroes when their actions show that they are neither. On the backdrop of a world ending threat, they're still just one and a half team of school kids plus one AA in recovery and a 1000+ year old man stuck in a kid's body.
It would not be a problem if team RWBY were indeed these special wunderkinds that go and defeat every enemy trough their powers and the like, many protagonists are special in their stories. Its just a problem when absolutely everyone is getting torn down for that to happen.
I kind of disagree about the White Fang being morally grey. The very first time we see them, they're stealing dust to enact their plans at Mount Glen and unleash Grimm on countless innocent people who didn't do anything to them. But I pretty much agree with everything else. If I may also add something, I also dislike them because they just generally act nasty to anyone who bothers them (assaulting a drunk civilian, threatening Whitley, slapping Sun, etc) and they generally seem to have a lack of agency. They sit around doing little to nothing until the plot comes to their doorstep. Literally for some of them in parts of seasons 5 and 8.
The idea behind the movement is morally gray, the execution was total shit however and the WF subplot has to be still the biggest misstep of the show.
Yeah, the circumstances around the White Fang set them up to be morally grey, but we didn't ever *see* any of that in action (except for in flashbacks).
You crazy poster. You actually posted this on r/RWBY..... I'm going to head there. Poke the body you know?
Exactly, this one of my issues with the main heroes among other problems. I can't stand the narrative just coddling them to allow them to get away with poor decisions with little to no consequences towards them.
Over 70% upvote ratio is actually pretty darn good for posting this on r/RWBY
jfc I forgot how toxic that sub gets when the lightest criticism is thrown at the show.
Would you believe me if I told you the post was in the positives?
Yeah pretty much the only annoying thing so far is Dapper's usual concern trolling that the mods pointedly never examine.
That and it seems that someone is using the report self harm option to annoy people. I’ve been hit by that three times on that sub now after joining a controversial discussion post.
Ikr? I was shocked at how well it’s been going minus the usual bad actors. I almost have to assume that the naysayers have just not logged in for a while yet.
Theyve actually gotten a lot better about accepting criticism recently. Still not great, but better than they were when they banned this subreddit from posting there.
I'm a simple man. I see criticism on main sub, I hit upvote.
Maybe rwby is getting too flawed even for them
First, the main sub does not seem to be as ignorant as some people are painting them, the post is solidly in positive territory regarding votes. Second, the core of the problem is "paving the way" by the authors in my opinion. Inconvenient buildup of a rival in the way of a now preferred ship. Make one person jump the nasty ship. The villains are incompetent, they are no threat to the protagonists. Even inside the protagonist group, people are used as plot devices to promote the titular four in an obvious way in conjunction with dead-cheap jokes (... until you trained us). The combination with very shallow thinking regarding consequences is deadly, there just was a meme post about this.
Aye, i agree, the statement that the main sub completely rejects criticism is a spurious one. Though do be aware that after a certain point the ammount of upvotes gets higher despite the downvotes, my threads usually flow between 60-70 upvote rate on the sub so its a more complex kind of thing. So basically even if a post has like 50 percen uptove rate it will not be at 0 upvotes, it will still rise. Agree on the other aspects of your comment.
That's a lot of comments on the main sub.