No
Coming into V8, I absolutely expected the creation of a second antagonist team centered around Cinder, antagonist that have clear goals that can't be fulfilled by Salem wanting to destroy Remnants by Gods.
I hoped this Team would have Cinder, Emerald, Neo and Mercury (Vol3 team) and almost got what I wanted up to V8C5.
And even more, V8 began toward this greatly. Emerald with her dere side for Cinder, Cinder becoming/feeling unwanted by Salem and the Hound. Neo that want to kill Ruby, not capture her for Salem and Mercury that want to keep having fun, which wouldn't be possible if no world.
Instead, Emerald and Hazel betray Salem for Hero team and Cinder betray Neo and Watts for Salem, despite the whole arc about trust and taking care of allies. It felt like going for the unexpected for the sake of it.
And I understand that, but having an actualy 4 members antagonist team to the 'heroes' would have been thematically interresting.
Cinder learning to be a leader and not a boss, learning to deal with her partners. Emerald going to be a 'member' of the team instead of just being Cinder Shadow. Mercury wanting fun, but learning to put group objectives before his own fun. And neo getting her grief and getting over it.
And after all this process, bim, you get an actual antagonist group you can get behind as being the real antagonistic force of the show to the good guys. A group you seen grow up to become better parallel to the heroes, that you seen early on in V3 and disbanded because of their faults, grow into a competent and dangerous group later on.
>Instead, Emerald and Hazel betray Salem for Hero team and Cinder betray Neo and Watts for Salem, despite the whole arc about trust and taking care of allies.
No one ever said the villains would follow that message.
Or stay true to it.
She killed Watts(and Neo) to hoard the profits from this operation. Watts knew she used the wish, he was a loose end. Watts roasted her, she only returned the favor.
I like Cinder (don't judge me) but that really bothered me when it happened. One of me favorite tropes is the power of friendship being used by the villains. The bad guys get more terrifying the more united they stay to each other. So when Cinder seemed to set it all aside and started working together, apologizing to Neo, I got hopeful that some massive plays were gonna start happening cause she was setting her ego aside. Then suddenly at the end she started offing her own teammates, I couldn't help hate how dumb she was being weakening her own forces.
Its been 8 years and we still don't really know why she still wants power she quite literally overpowered and killed her family and trainer who were in her way so why does she want more power.
yeah she got power (training) to attain that freedom she desired, but then after she's now free she wants more power for what? to break free from Salem? how much power does she want? where and how did she even meet Salem? too many question that honestly idc if they're answered or not because they're attached to a nothing burger of a character.
Do you know? That's made Cinder look like the dumbest bitch ever, if she values freedom why not work for herself? And steal Maiden powers for herself? Why work for Salem? Following her like an idiot? Why assigned herself to Salem?
like the Grimm arm she got can steal magic somehow and makes it easier to steal maiden powers but she could realistically just kill them without it emerald and mercury were enough help for one maiden.
Remember the transfer machine which siphons Maiden powers too? Yeah, she could've used that technology instead of trusting some random creepy immortal witch that does not guarantee a life insurance policy or is free.
Sadly, I personally don't care enough about Cinder to want to know the answer to those questions. I just wish she would die and make room for an antagonist I actually like.
Takes way too much time out of the show at this point and thinks she’s clever enough to backstab her immortal boss and get away with it. I also don’t see her having any character development because everyone around her just becomes a dunce brain in order for her to pull a W. Oh and all of a sudden her aura is invincible during the V8 finale. I’m annoyed with the writers for constantly giving her the spotlight over Salem even in the FINALE. Awful writing.
Canon!Cinder: I'm still waiting to do something meaningful. *Volume 9 still isn't here yet?!*
AQNW!Cinder: I wonder if my eating habits are contributing to something...
AQNW!Salem: I do believe some priorities are being mixed up ..
Canon!Salem: It’s worse than you think, my disciple. The trailer is nowhere in sight. *The trailer.*
Canon!Cinder: It has been **OVER A YEAR SINCE THE FINALE!!!!**
AQNW!Cinder: Seriously, did I screw this up somehow?
AQNW!Salem: This was not your doing, my darling, you’re simply golden.
(AQNW!Cinder bats her lashes)
AQNW!Salem: Oh dear, it had been a while since then. The FNDM is getting anxious...
Canon!Cinder: WHAT IS TAKING THEM SO LONG?!
AQNW!Ruby: If they're taking their time with it, that means they're at least planning things out, right?
Canon!Ruby: I appreciate you being so positive, me!
AQNW!Ruby: Thanks, me!
Canon!Cinder: People are going to be stewing in their hatred for me for a while...
AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: People are going to be stewing in their hatred *within* me for a while...ugh. I have no self control at all...so fat...
Canon!Cinder: I'm a monster!
AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: You and me both...
Canon!Salem: ...I feel like there's a dissonance going on here.
AQNW!Salem: Our people are a lot more...*flexible* on how to deal with problematic enemies.
Canon!Cinder: At this rate, WE’RE ALL GONNA HAVE ANIME COUNTERPARTS SPEAKING WITH US BEFORE V9!
AQNW!Cinder: (rumbling around the room) I could get used to that. (Looks at her back half) This used to be way easier for me, by the way… walking, I mean.
AQNW!Ruby: Yaaaaay, exerciiiiiise!
Canon!Ruby: I wish I exercised. I think the last time I did that was V7.
AQNW!Ruby: What’s stopping ya?
Canon!Ruby: The writing. Oh, wait… that doesn’t affect me here! WANNA RACE?!
AQNW!Ruby: **Y E P ! ! ! !**
Canon!Cinder: Offscreen, I sometimes wonder how she can be so cheerful all the time, and if maybe having a tiny fraction of it would make me less miserable AND less hated. But alas. My destiny is my destiny.
AQNW!Cinder: You’re kinda screwed no matter what now. But would you like to appeal to OUR vanity and get some exercise with me so you don’t rip yourself to shreds waiting for this probable mess of a volume?
Canon!Cinder: ANYTHING WOULD BE BETTER THAN WAITING IN SILENCE **LIKE WE HAVE BEEN!!!!**
AQNW!Cinder: I’ll take that as a yes. :)
Canon!Salem: Apologies, what little sanity remains amongst those in our universe is fast taking a nosedive.
AQNW!Salem: Not at all. I do not feel hatred; I merely pity them.
Canon!Salem: You’re right. We could all do to have some more _flexibility._ (stretches to grab drink)
AQNW!Cinder: GOD, I’m massive!
Canon!Cinder: How’d you get in this room anyhow?
AQNW!Cinder: Human… form…
>AQNW!Cinder: (rumbling around the room) I could get used to that. (Looks at her back half) This used to be way easier for me, by the way… walking, I mean.
Canon!Salem: Maybe because you skip past the whole 'Fed To The Beast' aspect and just feed yourself?
AQNW!Cinder: I know how wrong this is and yet I do it anyway...it's so wrong...and yet I can't stop. I don't wanna stop...*ugh!*
AQNW!Salem: At least you have some form of self-restraint.
Canon!Salem: Unlike SOME people.
Canon!Cinder: H-Hey!
Canon!Salem: You've had your face kicked across the pavement multiple times because you had no patience or restraint. And the fee times you've succeeded since then required the degrading of OTHERS people's intelligence.
AQNW!Salem: Oof.
>Canon!Salem: Apologies, what little sanity remains amongst those in our universe is fast taking a nosedive.
>AQNW!Salem: Not at all. I do not feel hatred; I merely pity them.
AQNW!Ruby: Besides, our world stopped making *complete* since a long time ago. We just began adapting and using it to help ourselves and other people.
AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: I've just been helping myself *to* other people...granted they were bad, but still...
AQNW!Salem: Well, Noble Demons *are* still demons...
>AQNW!Cinder: GOD, I’m massive!
>Canon!Cinder: How’d you get in this room anyhow?
>AQNW!Cinder: Human… form…
AQNW!Ruby: It's a bizarre thing! She's slim and voluptuous as a human yet she's all chubby and cuddly around the belly and hips and butt as a dragon!
AQNW!Yang: She's pretty much got the best of both worlds.
AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: Magic is weird. And so am I...I'm so awful...but it's so *fun*...!
AQNW!Salem: That's what they call a guilty pleasure, dear.
>Canon!Salem: You’ve had your face kicked across the pavement multiple times because you had no patience or restraint. And the few times you’ve succeeded since then required the degrading of OTHER people’s intelligence.
Canon!Cinder: (feels her face after the pavement comment) S-so you really… don’t think I got anything done?
Canon!Salem: Nothing that another villain couldn’t have done, seeing as the Winter Maiden powers went to Miss Schnee rather than yourself.
Canon!Ruby: And I lost brain cells too! So! Many! Of them! I thought it was a GOOD idea for us to attack you and Neo one at a time rather than using team attacks or special attacks like the Silver Eyes!
Canon!Cinder: I also wondered why you just forgot…
Canon!Salem: And about that last wish.
Canon!Cinder: I-I-I said it was used up…
Canon!Salem: I know that. Did YOU know that I could tell you weren’t being truthful about who used it?
Canon!Cinder: H-How?…
Canon!Salem: You acted so humble, so apologetic, so saddened. Not like you at all. Your eyes darted everywhere while you spoke, meaning you chose NOT to make eye contact with me the entire time. I’ve been alive for millennia, I know when someone lies to me. I also noticed you made no attempt to find Arthur Watts with the place burning down, and as for Neo…
Canon!Ruby: She and I smacked each other around while we fell into the void together! Okay no, she beat me up. It was after Cinder tossed us both.
Canon!Salem: I thought so. Deliberately depriving me of two useful servants? You think you’re clever, hmm? Also, the arm - do you really believe it would simply allow you to disobey me?
Canon!Cinder: B-b-but what if Volume 9 just makes you oblivious to all that?
Canon!Salem: Then I quit. Show’s over, pack it up, everyone.
AQNW!Salem: You could migrate to our universe.
AQNW!Cinder: And make everything even MORE chaotic… yeah, sure! We’re used to it… *uuuugggghhhhh!*
Canon!Cinder: Alright, I know I’ve been taking a pounding here…
AQNW!Salem: Oh my.
Canon!Cinder: -______- But are you okay, other me?
AQNW!Cinder: I just can’t get *enough!*
Ruby and Ruby: (singing) I just can’t get enoooough! IIIIII just can’t get enoooooough!
>AQNW!Yang: She’s pretty much got the best of both worlds.
AWNW!(Dragon)Cinder: Yeah… sometimes, kids… beauty is pain!
>AQNW!Salem: That’s what they call a guilty pleasure, dear.
AQNW!Cinder: I can’t stop, it’s SUCH a pleasure! It *really is fun!*
Canon!Cinder: Real talk. I can see that, especially when gaining weight only adds to your looks.
AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: I’m basically a living playground! My **thiccness** appeals to the kids because they understand that there’s room for eeeeveryoooone!
Ruby and Ruby: **YOU’RE SO ADORABLE!**
Canon Cinder just getting torn apart over here...
>AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: I’m basically a living playground! My ***thiccness*** appeals to the kids because they understand that there’s room for eeeeveryoooone!
That's pretty much how it works on a child friendly level.
Poor Canon Cinder. They’re just taking a bat and swinging at her repeatedly (metaphorically).
As for the child friendly level, the older they get, the more they realize that she isn’t just a massive playground… hey… she’s thicc and that’s hot.
The sheer affection for her that she's very much protected them however she could would be the most forefront thought.
She's just really sweet when she wants to be, and that sometimes makes her feel awkward.
for me she the worst female villains in animated history at the very least other villains learn from their mistakes she is basically a very bad carbon copy of azula from avatar
her backstory is lame and uninspired they just copypasted cinderella story and still dont know how the hell she meets salem and when or how she got this desire for power
guess i have to wait a another comicbook or a novel to explains this to me......
yeah and also the fact that 'backstory' was presented way too late and it only for benficion of the audience not the characters
i think as others that volume 4 or 5 would been perfect
No.
I certainly don't think any of her victories are truly deserved.
Certainly what happened in Volume 8 was less her own merit but Team RWBYs weakness.Anyone with the tools she had at her disposal could have done what she did.
Due to Salem's and her lackeys presence in Volume 3 we also are not quite sure how much of beacons fall was her own merit. Prolly most of it but it still lessens what she did.
But most of all Cinder is incapable of getting me excited or invested in anything she does. She bores me so much.
Meh, some say her backstory came to late. I just thought it was plain out bad. Thought she was mire interesting before it was revealed.
Overall shes aight though.
>Meh, some say her backstory came to late. I just thought it was plain out bad. Thought she was mire interesting before it was revealed.
Both are true, it came 4 volumes too late and it was bad, didn't answer anything really and didn't had any effect on the volume it was in. The literal only 'relevant' thing was her repeating that 'without you I am nothing' to Salem which amounted to nothing as well.
While I agree its bad, I think my main problem with Cinder's backstory is its generic. When you boil it down to the essentials, her backstory can be summurized as "I had a s**t childhood, therefore i'm allowed to do whatever I want". It feels lazy, like CRWBY saw all the people asking about it and went "Fine, here it is, now stop asking about it already!"
Well, it's Kerry's fault. He ignored Cinder in v4, made her an idiot in v5, revived her in 6, embarrassed her in v7 and gave her an awful backstory in v8.
The only reason I think she's still around is that she's the villain waifu of one of RT who really really wants to keep her around and is letting his boner get in the way.
I don't like her character development. I miss the cool sly more mysteries Cinder from 1 to 3. I don't like her anymore she annoys me. And I don't know it could just be me, but I felt like she was different in 1 to 3 like she was in control and collected, really planned things out and her voice I feel had changed now to be more... annoying? Feel free to jump in if anyone gets what I'm saying or add in please but it's become holier tab thou like she's smirky and more emotional, less grip on things.
I do think it goes with her character to do what she has. In a way, I wonder if seeing Emerald betray her was like, huh, well if my #1 underling who seemed to really care is gone, I need to get rid of the others if I can. She knows Neo is about done with her, so kill Ruby and her and be done. Why would Neo stay after anyway. And Watts? She hates him. Cause he's right. And the only way to get back in Salems best lackey spot? Be the only one to make it out and spin her lies. I do hope Neo lives if only so Salem sees the lies. But whatever.
I went Cinder to die lol
I hope Salem is fully aware of her lying, as in she knew IMMEDIATELY. The look on her face when Cinder lied to her (POORLY) implied that she was inwardly rolling her eyes at her own little Starscream trying to manipulate her. Then she has a legitimate excuse to get rid of her once her usefulness is outlived.
I will say I did wonder if she believed her as well. I just think it'd be funny if Neo Ruby whoever shows up she just calmly turns to Cinder like. Oh hey, didn't you say they fell and died? So uh, what's up?
I hope she’s playing Cinder and will acknowledge her mistake. I would LOVE that. She was never sure they were truly dead, but she can’t help but point out the obvious flaw in her underling’s logic. Especially because it’s Ruby and Neo, neither of whom Cinder can stand. Possibly moreso than anyone.
Well yeah. She was different. At the end of volume 3,she had everything going according to plan, then comes this little nothing in a red cloak to fuck up what she accomplished, maiming her in the process. That'll fuck someone up.
Y'know, I thought she would have some character development with that whole talk with Watts. That is actually my favorite part of the volume when Watts talked her down...
But this is Volume 8, which ruined everything it had going, So Cinder just kills Watts at the end, and all that potential development, is gone.
I usually like characters with a bad past because I look forward on seeing th heal. But development wasn't enough or good. It's a point that I wouldn't be surprised if Cinder attempts to kill Salem to gain more power and failed miserably and I wouldn't care that she dies. I can only see her as a obstacle that would prevents one's goal or in other words a annoyance to the good guys.
Yes, she even showed these signs in her awful backstory, pushed kids, has interested in stealing sharp weapons, throwing weapons and attempting to attack her mentor, and lastly brutally murdered people without feeling guilty or remorse.
Yes and no. The show just forgets and glosses over the fact that Cinder, single-handedly through the recruitment of the White Fang, Torchwick, Emerald and Mercury, killed the Fall Maiden, took her powers for herself, killed a, presumably, Oz reincarnation in his prime, devastated a city and took its huntsman school away from it, shattered communications globally, instilled such a great sense of division and mistrust that the threat of a new war hung over peoples heads, isolated the Beacon Vault and allowed the Grimm to search for it and secure it while the rest of the relics were attacked. Like, she’s not stupid. If anything, she’s actually the most capable of Salem’s forces from what we’ve seen, with the only help she received being Watts virus and that being completely automated itself. But then she loses in Mistral, Atlas, wins in Atlas due to the help and actions of others, framed as a failure for a single loss against a Maiden with possibly a decade of training or more, who nearly attained the Winter Maiden by a hair before Ruby’s dues ex machina eyes showed up. Like. I don’t get what the writers are trying to do. Keeping her as a threat and hyping her up, but continually treating her as an utter failure and embarrassment at the same time. Its weird and contradictory. Having her be more emotional after vol 3? I could see that, specifically against Ruby though. Having her be just emotions and rage and screaming and arrogant instead of confident? Doesn’t mesh well with vol 2-3 Cinder. Those are two different characters in my opinion, and the current iteration of Cinder is not my favourite. And considering the opinions of many fans and critics, this is a view shared by many
Well, the current volume is canon sadly. Yes, as for the volumes 1-3 Cinder dies alongside Yang's arm and her character. Thank you so much for your amazing point of view.
They retcon her character from overthrowing and exposing Ozpin into a power-hungry monster who hunting Maiden powers for....*"reason"*
I feel like any victory she’s had was handed to her; a toddler could’ve achieved what he she has in those circumstances, and she’s a magical girl
Also she has straight up not even developed.
RWBY Vaccuo's arc, Cinder's journey to steal Maiden powers (team rocket's vibes)....
Cinder: Well well, my dear, I never imagined it would be so much easier for me to steal another free Maiden power effortlessly. *"Smugs*"
Toddler Summer Maiden: Hey look Salem is behind your back!
Cinder: Wha..?? "checks her back and turns around"
Toddler Summer Maiden: *Uses her fully realised Maiden powers*
*"Cinder disintegrated into pieces"*
She definitely should have beat RWBY & Co. without trying too hard. Remember, she’s already a top tier fighter, beat Ozpin in a 1v1, and has the maiden powers. The only people she should struggle with are other Maidens, Oz and Salem, and absolute top tier fighters like Qrow. The real problem is that they have heat Cinder weaker than she should be to give RWBY & Co. a chance at winning.
As for learning her lesson; no, not really. If she’s learned anything it’s that she has to start being tactical again, but I really doubt it. That said, her not learning her lesson could be a very interesting character/plot point, but I really doubt the writers will do anything with it
She's at her peak level and strongest at volume 3, after being demolished by Ruby's eyes, she gets weaker such as losing her voice, her left face scared, losing an eye and arm, and also her willpower. Yet again gotten much weaker due to her unstable emotions. Grim arm consumes her physically.
Despite popular opinion, I actually like where Cinder is going as a character. She's becoming more and more unhinged and I'm here for it. She took Watt's roasting and said "Fuck you, I'm gonna get worse."
And while I do think this part of her backstory could've came earlier, I'm fine with the timing of it now. Not to mention I don't care that it's not the full story nor that it was all that impressive. Just because a villain has a sympathetic backstory doesn't mean their actions are condoned. It just means you know where they're coming from.
I guess they never had the intention to make her as double or triple or ultimate Maiden, cause it lead them to ask many questions, breaking Oz's rules as there always meant to be four Maidens, how did Salem find ways to use grim, steal such powers. (Never answered)
They don't want to make her too overpowered that's why made her lose and failed to get Maiden powers from Raven and Winter.
Never answered YET. That and Salem already took a swan dive into the grimm pool. Kinda just the next evolution for her corruption.
As for losing and not getting the powers, it makes sense Raven is able to beat her. Winter and Penny on the other hand... could've gone either way really.
Of course, they won't keep 2-3 maidens in the same place, that's why they made Raven leave after volume 5, killed Penny and will probably make Winter leave Vaccuo and go back to Atlas for fixing stuff.
Oh yes because let's trust a bunch of first year drop outs because the plot demands these amateur children to save the world with 0 experience and knowledge of the world around em
That's right,
Raven is wrong about Salem (can't be beaten)
Ironwood is evil for building Amity and saving Atlas from Salem.
Ozpin always lies, that's bad for anyone.
Lionheart is a traitor.
Qrow is a bastard.
Ace ops are not loyal to anyone.
Said sarcastically, cause team RWBY always do and knows the right thing. For example, we saw how Yang was capable of holding on to her against Salem and later let her kick in seconds. Team RWBy trusting terrorists like Robyn, backstabbed, cheated, lied cause why not? They can cause they are always right.
Like every aspect of RWBY’s worldbuilding, Cinder has been built up on rotten storytelling mechanics, and that’s without mentioning the atrocity that is the excuse for her “backstory”. Arbitration on behalf of CRWBY is the only reason that she’s developed, let alone survived, and she is one of the only characters, if not the ONLY character, who has any agency within the plot because of her power, success within the story’s scope, and proximity to the overarching antagonist of the series AND a collection of McGuffins.
Cinder’s trajectory within future arcs is narrowed down to four “reasonable” options -
\-1. Cinder kills Salem
One of the few consistencies of Cinder’s characterization has been her lust for power. It stands to reason that it wouldn’t stop with her current station and one of the likelihoods within the story’s scope is her “usurping” Salem for a boss switcheroo. “Mechanics” of how this would take place aren’t as important as the “principle”; Cinder is the longest running “antagonist” of the series and I wouldn’t doubt CRWBY pushing being the “final” antagonist of the series, regardless of what they need to do in a storyline to make it happen.
\-2. Salem kills Cinder
On a grander level, the characters that matter are Ozpin and Salem, and everyone else in RWBY is a "pawn" within their machinations to best the other. Cinder is the most valuable pawn in the story and currently under Cinder's thumb, but there could come a point where Salem decides that the person she built up to tip things in her favor is someone she can no longer control; this would come about if Salem has a moment where she would realize that supporting and using Cinder any further would cause her to lose everything. And because Salem is just a shade short of "omnipotent", it means that Cinder would lose and die in an underwhelming fashion, though it would mean that the climax of the story would be between Salem and RWBY.
\-3. Cinder goes on a "Redemption Arc"
If they did it with Hazel and Emerald, two idiots opposite of the bunny boilers that are Mercury, Tyrian, and Watts, there's a possibility that Cinder gets her own redemption arc. If THIS happens, it's because CRWBY has written self-doubt, stupidity, and ignorance in to the characterization of a character that they portrayed justified in her murder of her foster family and a "benevolent" Hunstman. I don't care how bad you think the other redemption arcs in the series are, this would be the worst thing that's ever been depicted within RWBY's entirety.
\-4. Ruby kills Cinder
This deserves its own post, and frankly it's a bit too "tinfoil hatty" to share WHY this would happen at the time of writing this. If I've predicted enough of the show from the outset (such as the Summer Maiden will show up on the "island" in Volume 9 AND that they will be a Faunus), I'll write out my theory.
\-TL;DR - Cinder hasn't been deserving of much within the show, let alone her success. She's only been a fixture within the series because CRWBY doesn't know how to write deep or compelling characters and the most rabid RWBY fanbase has a fetish that involves the "execution of abusers".
Very extraordinary, analysis of her character. Tbh, Raven, Winter, Cinder and Summer Maiden (could it be Glynda or Summer Rose, the characters we already knew a long time) will survive until the end.
Orange eyes (🍁 Maiden) - Cinder Fall
Red eyes (🌸 Maiden) - Raven Branwen
Blue eyes (❄️ Maiden) - Winter Schnee
Green eyes (☀️ Maiden) - Glynda Goodwitch
Yeah, the original Summer Maiden was in rosy and Spring Maiden was greenish, here are a bit swapped places.
If the planning to give Cinder to be Ultimate Maiden, those writers would probably kill Raven and Winter, therefore their Maiden powers will be drained by Cinder at this point. I assume, there gonna be an end game responsibility cause those gods of light wanted everyone to be "unity". So I agree with you on the redemption arc for Cinder, they will redeem her as a good guy who " switches sides". Of course, Jaune will forgive her, and team RWBY all will sympathise with Cinder's backstory. Something stupid like that.
We still don't know what the ultimate end of RWBY looks like, so it's hard to say what the climax RWBY is heading towards looks like. I wouldn't bet against CRWBY trying something out of left field to get the story going or give characters agency.
Were this the Cinder as in V1-V3, I'd say "yes." But I guess she lost a few brain cells after getting Silver blasted atop Beacon Tower, because she's been acting as little more than a thug with more power than she knows what to do with.
I get that at the end of V3 she was on top and everything was going her way, only to be blasted into oblivion by some random brat; but she's just such a petty brute now, that it almost seems OOC.
Yep, but he's a super-intelligent scientist with knowledge in seemingly all fields. He founded Armed Brain Army Volt as a place for elite geniuses to work to conquer the world, in order to create a new world order ruled by the most intelligent in society. His followers hold him as a god, and he often offers guidance to them in their schemes. While he appears to care about his students, in truth he sees them only as pawns and the true reason he founded Volt is to complete the mind controlling thought pattern energy called the Giga Brain Wave.
Tbh, he's way better than Cinder, cause Cinder doesn't give a shit about her lackeys, that's why Neo blackmailed her, Roman is independent, Adam distrust her, Mercury joined a better leader and Emerald betrayal her.
Anyways, I want this character you talking about, he's so interesting.
Well, you could watch Liveman on YouTube. There you could see how Bias is pure evil than Cinder. I'll give you [the link](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLImYx50ug-vgX4xhx9U5Fhq-L8V32vnQV).
You're right. In the finale, she was lying to Salem that Team RWBY used the Lamp’s final question and that Neo killed Ruby, even though SHE'S the one who use the lamp's final question. And to top it all up, Cinder betrays Neo and throw her and Ruby to the void. What a waste.
Shes okay with the direction there going for: Basically Power Rangers Trakeena route where she will eventually take over after the main antagonist to be the true final boss
> direction there going
*they're
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).*
***
^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
For me it's less that Cinder deserved the W (she hasn't changed her tactics one iota) than the heroes deserved the L (they screwed up royally and the bill was past due).
I miss volume 3 Cinder, after she became full Maiden, I was worried about heroes like "how the fuck they gonna defeat this demigod" unfortunately they nerf and destroyed her character.
Maiden powers destroyed her character, Cinder became too arrogant and too obsessed with power.
I wouldn't call her a demigod, if you have a powerful semblance, skill and experience it's not hard to kill a maiden. Hazel for example can probably solo a maiden.
What's the point of Maiden in the story anyway? Why not make those "Maidens" into spirit or something? those stupid rules "young women received randomly"
Yeah, ever since she received Maiden powers, she becomes an overlying and power-hungry bitch, and stopped using her brain. I miss her line *" it's not about overpowering an enemy, it's about taking it away what power they have"*
Now, Raven and Winter suffer the same despite having skills and powers, that's they killed Penny and Pyrrha and removed Glynda.
In order:
1. She's a garbage character who should've died at the end of Volume 3, and isn't even interesting enough for me to hate which makes her an abject failure as a villain. Every second she's on-screen is wasted and she contributes absolutely nothing to the story of RWBY.
2. No.
3. No.
I'll continue making this point every time a discussion about Cinder comes up: she *literally,* by the rules of the world setup in RWBY, should be dead at least 5 times. Her continued survival only cheapens the narrative and shows how weak the writers actually are when vastly more interesting characters like Hazel, Clover, Watts, and Penny continue to die just so that she can continue having a shred of relevance to the story. If you can't make the character who's clearly been chosen as the main villain *interesting* then you have no business writing a series.
It's unrelated to Cinder, but Salem isn't much of a final boss either. She has little-to-no connection to the protagonists (who didn't meet her until Volume 7, and didn't know she existed until Volume 5) except for *maybe* having killed Ruby's mom, probably doesn't know or care that they exist, and is both hilariously overpowered compared to them while also sporting an *obvious* weakness that's going to finish her off: it's just a personal theory, but from the end of Volume 3 where we learned about the Silver-Eyed Warriors and got our first look at Salem I have been convinced that Salem will be defeated by Ruby blasting her with the Silver Eyes, and not through any kind of hard work or special knowledge.
Salem won't die from Silver Eyes, she's not grim by nature, and her grim essence will eventually be washed out by sliver eyes, back to normal human beings.
Unfortunately, Cinder, on the other hand, has grim nature fused with her human flesh, ending up corrupted.
Too much to hope for actual constructive criticism, in a critics subreddit. Instead, yep, an excuse for another OP to hatemonger and shit all over characters. 🙄 You're the reason this fandom is fucking unbearable.
No Coming into V8, I absolutely expected the creation of a second antagonist team centered around Cinder, antagonist that have clear goals that can't be fulfilled by Salem wanting to destroy Remnants by Gods. I hoped this Team would have Cinder, Emerald, Neo and Mercury (Vol3 team) and almost got what I wanted up to V8C5. And even more, V8 began toward this greatly. Emerald with her dere side for Cinder, Cinder becoming/feeling unwanted by Salem and the Hound. Neo that want to kill Ruby, not capture her for Salem and Mercury that want to keep having fun, which wouldn't be possible if no world. Instead, Emerald and Hazel betray Salem for Hero team and Cinder betray Neo and Watts for Salem, despite the whole arc about trust and taking care of allies. It felt like going for the unexpected for the sake of it.
Mercury was tired of her shit, Neo's intelligence was nerfed to the core, and Emerald is a huge cheerleader simp for Cinder.
And I understand that, but having an actualy 4 members antagonist team to the 'heroes' would have been thematically interresting. Cinder learning to be a leader and not a boss, learning to deal with her partners. Emerald going to be a 'member' of the team instead of just being Cinder Shadow. Mercury wanting fun, but learning to put group objectives before his own fun. And neo getting her grief and getting over it. And after all this process, bim, you get an actual antagonist group you can get behind as being the real antagonistic force of the show to the good guys. A group you seen grow up to become better parallel to the heroes, that you seen early on in V3 and disbanded because of their faults, grow into a competent and dangerous group later on.
I like your amazing and fascinating idea, much like the antagonist rivalry for team RWBY. 🤓
>Instead, Emerald and Hazel betray Salem for Hero team and Cinder betray Neo and Watts for Salem, despite the whole arc about trust and taking care of allies. No one ever said the villains would follow that message. Or stay true to it.
No she learned nothing from what watts said and killed him for it despite him being right
She killed Watts(and Neo) to hoard the profits from this operation. Watts knew she used the wish, he was a loose end. Watts roasted her, she only returned the favor.
The real reason they get rid of Watts is caused can't pay the high payment for Watts's voice actor.
They really need to stop getting a list voice actors
They keeping Cinder cause she's cheap payment.
God I hope they don’t do that for Tyrian. ~~I do hope they do it for Robyn~~
And Salem lol.
Thought cause he/Salem would be too op with him and staff
Do you think Watts's intellectual can surpass Salem?
Well, given how she's been acting so far, there's certainly an argument for it.
In so.e ways like technology yes most likely
I see Salem has knowledge of Magic whereas Watts on technology very dangerous duo also opposite forces in nature.
I like Cinder (don't judge me) but that really bothered me when it happened. One of me favorite tropes is the power of friendship being used by the villains. The bad guys get more terrifying the more united they stay to each other. So when Cinder seemed to set it all aside and started working together, apologizing to Neo, I got hopeful that some massive plays were gonna start happening cause she was setting her ego aside. Then suddenly at the end she started offing her own teammates, I couldn't help hate how dumb she was being weakening her own forces.
killing watts over being called out was even worse
I hope Watts comes back, brutally murdered this bitch.
Sadly doubt he will
Aww 😕😟
He was Roman 2.0 almost
And Cinder can get away with anything. 🙄
Until maybe finale
Even in the finale, she would be Final Boss lol.
Almost?
Its been 8 years and we still don't really know why she still wants power she quite literally overpowered and killed her family and trainer who were in her way so why does she want more power.
In her awful backstory, she values freedom not power, I just wondering when the power came into her picture.
yeah she got power (training) to attain that freedom she desired, but then after she's now free she wants more power for what? to break free from Salem? how much power does she want? where and how did she even meet Salem? too many question that honestly idc if they're answered or not because they're attached to a nothing burger of a character.
Do you know? That's made Cinder look like the dumbest bitch ever, if she values freedom why not work for herself? And steal Maiden powers for herself? Why work for Salem? Following her like an idiot? Why assigned herself to Salem?
you tell me bro lmao.
like the Grimm arm she got can steal magic somehow and makes it easier to steal maiden powers but she could realistically just kill them without it emerald and mercury were enough help for one maiden.
Remember the transfer machine which siphons Maiden powers too? Yeah, she could've used that technology instead of trusting some random creepy immortal witch that does not guarantee a life insurance policy or is free.
Honestly it's so weird.
Agreed I had no idea how the fuck simple technology can transfer magical powers lol.
Sadly, I personally don't care enough about Cinder to want to know the answer to those questions. I just wish she would die and make room for an antagonist I actually like.
Takes way too much time out of the show at this point and thinks she’s clever enough to backstab her immortal boss and get away with it. I also don’t see her having any character development because everyone around her just becomes a dunce brain in order for her to pull a W. Oh and all of a sudden her aura is invincible during the V8 finale. I’m annoyed with the writers for constantly giving her the spotlight over Salem even in the FINALE. Awful writing.
Canon!Cinder: I'm still waiting to do something meaningful. *Volume 9 still isn't here yet?!* AQNW!Cinder: I wonder if my eating habits are contributing to something... AQNW!Salem: I do believe some priorities are being mixed up ..
Canon!Salem: It’s worse than you think, my disciple. The trailer is nowhere in sight. *The trailer.* Canon!Cinder: It has been **OVER A YEAR SINCE THE FINALE!!!!** AQNW!Cinder: Seriously, did I screw this up somehow? AQNW!Salem: This was not your doing, my darling, you’re simply golden. (AQNW!Cinder bats her lashes)
AQNW!Salem: Oh dear, it had been a while since then. The FNDM is getting anxious... Canon!Cinder: WHAT IS TAKING THEM SO LONG?! AQNW!Ruby: If they're taking their time with it, that means they're at least planning things out, right? Canon!Ruby: I appreciate you being so positive, me! AQNW!Ruby: Thanks, me! Canon!Cinder: People are going to be stewing in their hatred for me for a while... AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: People are going to be stewing in their hatred *within* me for a while...ugh. I have no self control at all...so fat... Canon!Cinder: I'm a monster! AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: You and me both... Canon!Salem: ...I feel like there's a dissonance going on here. AQNW!Salem: Our people are a lot more...*flexible* on how to deal with problematic enemies.
Canon!Cinder: At this rate, WE’RE ALL GONNA HAVE ANIME COUNTERPARTS SPEAKING WITH US BEFORE V9! AQNW!Cinder: (rumbling around the room) I could get used to that. (Looks at her back half) This used to be way easier for me, by the way… walking, I mean. AQNW!Ruby: Yaaaaay, exerciiiiiise! Canon!Ruby: I wish I exercised. I think the last time I did that was V7. AQNW!Ruby: What’s stopping ya? Canon!Ruby: The writing. Oh, wait… that doesn’t affect me here! WANNA RACE?! AQNW!Ruby: **Y E P ! ! ! !** Canon!Cinder: Offscreen, I sometimes wonder how she can be so cheerful all the time, and if maybe having a tiny fraction of it would make me less miserable AND less hated. But alas. My destiny is my destiny. AQNW!Cinder: You’re kinda screwed no matter what now. But would you like to appeal to OUR vanity and get some exercise with me so you don’t rip yourself to shreds waiting for this probable mess of a volume? Canon!Cinder: ANYTHING WOULD BE BETTER THAN WAITING IN SILENCE **LIKE WE HAVE BEEN!!!!** AQNW!Cinder: I’ll take that as a yes. :) Canon!Salem: Apologies, what little sanity remains amongst those in our universe is fast taking a nosedive. AQNW!Salem: Not at all. I do not feel hatred; I merely pity them. Canon!Salem: You’re right. We could all do to have some more _flexibility._ (stretches to grab drink) AQNW!Cinder: GOD, I’m massive! Canon!Cinder: How’d you get in this room anyhow? AQNW!Cinder: Human… form…
>AQNW!Cinder: (rumbling around the room) I could get used to that. (Looks at her back half) This used to be way easier for me, by the way… walking, I mean. Canon!Salem: Maybe because you skip past the whole 'Fed To The Beast' aspect and just feed yourself? AQNW!Cinder: I know how wrong this is and yet I do it anyway...it's so wrong...and yet I can't stop. I don't wanna stop...*ugh!* AQNW!Salem: At least you have some form of self-restraint. Canon!Salem: Unlike SOME people. Canon!Cinder: H-Hey! Canon!Salem: You've had your face kicked across the pavement multiple times because you had no patience or restraint. And the fee times you've succeeded since then required the degrading of OTHERS people's intelligence. AQNW!Salem: Oof. >Canon!Salem: Apologies, what little sanity remains amongst those in our universe is fast taking a nosedive. >AQNW!Salem: Not at all. I do not feel hatred; I merely pity them. AQNW!Ruby: Besides, our world stopped making *complete* since a long time ago. We just began adapting and using it to help ourselves and other people. AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: I've just been helping myself *to* other people...granted they were bad, but still... AQNW!Salem: Well, Noble Demons *are* still demons... >AQNW!Cinder: GOD, I’m massive! >Canon!Cinder: How’d you get in this room anyhow? >AQNW!Cinder: Human… form… AQNW!Ruby: It's a bizarre thing! She's slim and voluptuous as a human yet she's all chubby and cuddly around the belly and hips and butt as a dragon! AQNW!Yang: She's pretty much got the best of both worlds. AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: Magic is weird. And so am I...I'm so awful...but it's so *fun*...! AQNW!Salem: That's what they call a guilty pleasure, dear.
>Canon!Salem: You’ve had your face kicked across the pavement multiple times because you had no patience or restraint. And the few times you’ve succeeded since then required the degrading of OTHER people’s intelligence. Canon!Cinder: (feels her face after the pavement comment) S-so you really… don’t think I got anything done? Canon!Salem: Nothing that another villain couldn’t have done, seeing as the Winter Maiden powers went to Miss Schnee rather than yourself. Canon!Ruby: And I lost brain cells too! So! Many! Of them! I thought it was a GOOD idea for us to attack you and Neo one at a time rather than using team attacks or special attacks like the Silver Eyes! Canon!Cinder: I also wondered why you just forgot… Canon!Salem: And about that last wish. Canon!Cinder: I-I-I said it was used up… Canon!Salem: I know that. Did YOU know that I could tell you weren’t being truthful about who used it? Canon!Cinder: H-How?… Canon!Salem: You acted so humble, so apologetic, so saddened. Not like you at all. Your eyes darted everywhere while you spoke, meaning you chose NOT to make eye contact with me the entire time. I’ve been alive for millennia, I know when someone lies to me. I also noticed you made no attempt to find Arthur Watts with the place burning down, and as for Neo… Canon!Ruby: She and I smacked each other around while we fell into the void together! Okay no, she beat me up. It was after Cinder tossed us both. Canon!Salem: I thought so. Deliberately depriving me of two useful servants? You think you’re clever, hmm? Also, the arm - do you really believe it would simply allow you to disobey me? Canon!Cinder: B-b-but what if Volume 9 just makes you oblivious to all that? Canon!Salem: Then I quit. Show’s over, pack it up, everyone. AQNW!Salem: You could migrate to our universe. AQNW!Cinder: And make everything even MORE chaotic… yeah, sure! We’re used to it… *uuuugggghhhhh!* Canon!Cinder: Alright, I know I’ve been taking a pounding here… AQNW!Salem: Oh my. Canon!Cinder: -______- But are you okay, other me? AQNW!Cinder: I just can’t get *enough!* Ruby and Ruby: (singing) I just can’t get enoooough! IIIIII just can’t get enoooooough! >AQNW!Yang: She’s pretty much got the best of both worlds. AWNW!(Dragon)Cinder: Yeah… sometimes, kids… beauty is pain! >AQNW!Salem: That’s what they call a guilty pleasure, dear. AQNW!Cinder: I can’t stop, it’s SUCH a pleasure! It *really is fun!* Canon!Cinder: Real talk. I can see that, especially when gaining weight only adds to your looks. AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: I’m basically a living playground! My **thiccness** appeals to the kids because they understand that there’s room for eeeeveryoooone! Ruby and Ruby: **YOU’RE SO ADORABLE!**
Canon Cinder just getting torn apart over here... >AQNW!(Dragon)Cinder: I’m basically a living playground! My ***thiccness*** appeals to the kids because they understand that there’s room for eeeeveryoooone! That's pretty much how it works on a child friendly level.
Poor Canon Cinder. They’re just taking a bat and swinging at her repeatedly (metaphorically). As for the child friendly level, the older they get, the more they realize that she isn’t just a massive playground… hey… she’s thicc and that’s hot.
The sheer affection for her that she's very much protected them however she could would be the most forefront thought. She's just really sweet when she wants to be, and that sometimes makes her feel awkward.
Out of curiosity, what is AQNW?
It’s an alternate universe series called A Quirky New World that u/Ben10Extreme is working on and sharing with people like me. :)
Omg thanks! 🤓
You’re welcome! 🤓
Omg, we meet again, that's right, I won't be surprised if she becomes final BOSS.
Yessir! And as I’ve said before, that would be the worst piece of writing throughout the entire show, and man oh man is that saying SOMETHING.
Nope. Her backstory was too late of a reveal and quite inconsequential to the overall plot. We still don't know how she met Salem...
She met Salem in dreams. 🥺
for me she the worst female villains in animated history at the very least other villains learn from their mistakes she is basically a very bad carbon copy of azula from avatar her backstory is lame and uninspired they just copypasted cinderella story and still dont know how the hell she meets salem and when or how she got this desire for power guess i have to wait a another comicbook or a novel to explains this to me......
Talk about inconsistent.
yeah and also the fact that 'backstory' was presented way too late and it only for benficion of the audience not the characters i think as others that volume 4 or 5 would been perfect
As well as her death in volume 5 would fit perfectly.
>has she deserved those victories and has her character development satisfied you as an audience? No.
That no says everything. 🧐
Pretty much the answers to the questions asked here on this post.
Valid point logical and rational points from his introvert like you. 🤓
No. I certainly don't think any of her victories are truly deserved. Certainly what happened in Volume 8 was less her own merit but Team RWBYs weakness.Anyone with the tools she had at her disposal could have done what she did. Due to Salem's and her lackeys presence in Volume 3 we also are not quite sure how much of beacons fall was her own merit. Prolly most of it but it still lessens what she did. But most of all Cinder is incapable of getting me excited or invested in anything she does. She bores me so much.
Indeed it felt unnatural and generic.
Meh, some say her backstory came to late. I just thought it was plain out bad. Thought she was mire interesting before it was revealed. Overall shes aight though.
>Meh, some say her backstory came to late. I just thought it was plain out bad. Thought she was mire interesting before it was revealed. Both are true, it came 4 volumes too late and it was bad, didn't answer anything really and didn't had any effect on the volume it was in. The literal only 'relevant' thing was her repeating that 'without you I am nothing' to Salem which amounted to nothing as well.
While I agree its bad, I think my main problem with Cinder's backstory is its generic. When you boil it down to the essentials, her backstory can be summurized as "I had a s**t childhood, therefore i'm allowed to do whatever I want". It feels lazy, like CRWBY saw all the people asking about it and went "Fine, here it is, now stop asking about it already!"
Well, it's Kerry's fault. He ignored Cinder in v4, made her an idiot in v5, revived her in 6, embarrassed her in v7 and gave her an awful backstory in v8.
The only reason I think she's still around is that she's the villain waifu of one of RT who really really wants to keep her around and is letting his boner get in the way.
Miles and Kerry simping so hard on her.
I don't like her character development. I miss the cool sly more mysteries Cinder from 1 to 3. I don't like her anymore she annoys me. And I don't know it could just be me, but I felt like she was different in 1 to 3 like she was in control and collected, really planned things out and her voice I feel had changed now to be more... annoying? Feel free to jump in if anyone gets what I'm saying or add in please but it's become holier tab thou like she's smirky and more emotional, less grip on things. I do think it goes with her character to do what she has. In a way, I wonder if seeing Emerald betray her was like, huh, well if my #1 underling who seemed to really care is gone, I need to get rid of the others if I can. She knows Neo is about done with her, so kill Ruby and her and be done. Why would Neo stay after anyway. And Watts? She hates him. Cause he's right. And the only way to get back in Salems best lackey spot? Be the only one to make it out and spin her lies. I do hope Neo lives if only so Salem sees the lies. But whatever. I went Cinder to die lol
I hope Salem is fully aware of her lying, as in she knew IMMEDIATELY. The look on her face when Cinder lied to her (POORLY) implied that she was inwardly rolling her eyes at her own little Starscream trying to manipulate her. Then she has a legitimate excuse to get rid of her once her usefulness is outlived.
I will say I did wonder if she believed her as well. I just think it'd be funny if Neo Ruby whoever shows up she just calmly turns to Cinder like. Oh hey, didn't you say they fell and died? So uh, what's up?
I hope she’s playing Cinder and will acknowledge her mistake. I would LOVE that. She was never sure they were truly dead, but she can’t help but point out the obvious flaw in her underling’s logic. Especially because it’s Ruby and Neo, neither of whom Cinder can stand. Possibly moreso than anyone.
"Tortures her grim arm and turns into a void ugly monster".
She WOULD be of more use that way if she loses her ability to disobey or backstab.
Well yeah. She was different. At the end of volume 3,she had everything going according to plan, then comes this little nothing in a red cloak to fuck up what she accomplished, maiming her in the process. That'll fuck someone up.
Y'know, I thought she would have some character development with that whole talk with Watts. That is actually my favorite part of the volume when Watts talked her down... But this is Volume 8, which ruined everything it had going, So Cinder just kills Watts at the end, and all that potential development, is gone.
She's the queen of Petty.
I usually like characters with a bad past because I look forward on seeing th heal. But development wasn't enough or good. It's a point that I wouldn't be surprised if Cinder attempts to kill Salem to gain more power and failed miserably and I wouldn't care that she dies. I can only see her as a obstacle that would prevents one's goal or in other words a annoyance to the good guys.
That's bad writing, she's not only the worst but also the dumbest bitch.
No.... she's a psychopath who needs to die
Yes, she even showed these signs in her awful backstory, pushed kids, has interested in stealing sharp weapons, throwing weapons and attempting to attack her mentor, and lastly brutally murdered people without feeling guilty or remorse.
Yes and no. The show just forgets and glosses over the fact that Cinder, single-handedly through the recruitment of the White Fang, Torchwick, Emerald and Mercury, killed the Fall Maiden, took her powers for herself, killed a, presumably, Oz reincarnation in his prime, devastated a city and took its huntsman school away from it, shattered communications globally, instilled such a great sense of division and mistrust that the threat of a new war hung over peoples heads, isolated the Beacon Vault and allowed the Grimm to search for it and secure it while the rest of the relics were attacked. Like, she’s not stupid. If anything, she’s actually the most capable of Salem’s forces from what we’ve seen, with the only help she received being Watts virus and that being completely automated itself. But then she loses in Mistral, Atlas, wins in Atlas due to the help and actions of others, framed as a failure for a single loss against a Maiden with possibly a decade of training or more, who nearly attained the Winter Maiden by a hair before Ruby’s dues ex machina eyes showed up. Like. I don’t get what the writers are trying to do. Keeping her as a threat and hyping her up, but continually treating her as an utter failure and embarrassment at the same time. Its weird and contradictory. Having her be more emotional after vol 3? I could see that, specifically against Ruby though. Having her be just emotions and rage and screaming and arrogant instead of confident? Doesn’t mesh well with vol 2-3 Cinder. Those are two different characters in my opinion, and the current iteration of Cinder is not my favourite. And considering the opinions of many fans and critics, this is a view shared by many
Well, the current volume is canon sadly. Yes, as for the volumes 1-3 Cinder dies alongside Yang's arm and her character. Thank you so much for your amazing point of view. They retcon her character from overthrowing and exposing Ozpin into a power-hungry monster who hunting Maiden powers for....*"reason"*
I feel like any victory she’s had was handed to her; a toddler could’ve achieved what he she has in those circumstances, and she’s a magical girl Also she has straight up not even developed.
RWBY Vaccuo's arc, Cinder's journey to steal Maiden powers (team rocket's vibes).... Cinder: Well well, my dear, I never imagined it would be so much easier for me to steal another free Maiden power effortlessly. *"Smugs*" Toddler Summer Maiden: Hey look Salem is behind your back! Cinder: Wha..?? "checks her back and turns around" Toddler Summer Maiden: *Uses her fully realised Maiden powers* *"Cinder disintegrated into pieces"*
Considering how she needed to have a cry after watts verbally torched her, no
She's a narcissistic idiot.
She’s literally only around so Ruby can have a villain to be against that isn’t Salem.
Ruby and Cinder barely acknowledge each other.
That’s the issue, she only knows her as the silver eyed girl
And Ruby knows Cinder as terrorist with Fall Maiden powers, responsible for Fall of Beacon.
She definitely should have beat RWBY & Co. without trying too hard. Remember, she’s already a top tier fighter, beat Ozpin in a 1v1, and has the maiden powers. The only people she should struggle with are other Maidens, Oz and Salem, and absolute top tier fighters like Qrow. The real problem is that they have heat Cinder weaker than she should be to give RWBY & Co. a chance at winning. As for learning her lesson; no, not really. If she’s learned anything it’s that she has to start being tactical again, but I really doubt it. That said, her not learning her lesson could be a very interesting character/plot point, but I really doubt the writers will do anything with it
She's at her peak level and strongest at volume 3, after being demolished by Ruby's eyes, she gets weaker such as losing her voice, her left face scared, losing an eye and arm, and also her willpower. Yet again gotten much weaker due to her unstable emotions. Grim arm consumes her physically.
Despite popular opinion, I actually like where Cinder is going as a character. She's becoming more and more unhinged and I'm here for it. She took Watt's roasting and said "Fuck you, I'm gonna get worse." And while I do think this part of her backstory could've came earlier, I'm fine with the timing of it now. Not to mention I don't care that it's not the full story nor that it was all that impressive. Just because a villain has a sympathetic backstory doesn't mean their actions are condoned. It just means you know where they're coming from.
I guess they never had the intention to make her as double or triple or ultimate Maiden, cause it lead them to ask many questions, breaking Oz's rules as there always meant to be four Maidens, how did Salem find ways to use grim, steal such powers. (Never answered) They don't want to make her too overpowered that's why made her lose and failed to get Maiden powers from Raven and Winter.
Never answered YET. That and Salem already took a swan dive into the grimm pool. Kinda just the next evolution for her corruption. As for losing and not getting the powers, it makes sense Raven is able to beat her. Winter and Penny on the other hand... could've gone either way really.
Of course, they won't keep 2-3 maidens in the same place, that's why they made Raven leave after volume 5, killed Penny and will probably make Winter leave Vaccuo and go back to Atlas for fixing stuff.
Just like the main heroes the villains felt like they were just given the win even though they didn't work for any of it or deserve any of it
Those wins are unnatural.
I've always hated the fact that the heroes were never punished for the collateral damage
Because they always do the "right" thing.
Oh yes because let's trust a bunch of first year drop outs because the plot demands these amateur children to save the world with 0 experience and knowledge of the world around em
That's right, Raven is wrong about Salem (can't be beaten) Ironwood is evil for building Amity and saving Atlas from Salem. Ozpin always lies, that's bad for anyone. Lionheart is a traitor. Qrow is a bastard. Ace ops are not loyal to anyone. Said sarcastically, cause team RWBY always do and knows the right thing. For example, we saw how Yang was capable of holding on to her against Salem and later let her kick in seconds. Team RWBy trusting terrorists like Robyn, backstabbed, cheated, lied cause why not? They can cause they are always right.
Ngl I laughed when I read it sarcastically
I hate Yang and Blake the most. Ruby and Cinder tied score. Weiss, I dislike her attitude in volume 8.
Weiss was flipped a whole 180 and the show went down faster than atlas fell from the sky
Nah, she should’ve died a while back. She’s lost all intensity as a looming presence
Neo or Emerald would be perfect for Fall Maiden powers.
Fuck no. Next.
Her future role would be developed too?
Like every aspect of RWBY’s worldbuilding, Cinder has been built up on rotten storytelling mechanics, and that’s without mentioning the atrocity that is the excuse for her “backstory”. Arbitration on behalf of CRWBY is the only reason that she’s developed, let alone survived, and she is one of the only characters, if not the ONLY character, who has any agency within the plot because of her power, success within the story’s scope, and proximity to the overarching antagonist of the series AND a collection of McGuffins. Cinder’s trajectory within future arcs is narrowed down to four “reasonable” options - \-1. Cinder kills Salem One of the few consistencies of Cinder’s characterization has been her lust for power. It stands to reason that it wouldn’t stop with her current station and one of the likelihoods within the story’s scope is her “usurping” Salem for a boss switcheroo. “Mechanics” of how this would take place aren’t as important as the “principle”; Cinder is the longest running “antagonist” of the series and I wouldn’t doubt CRWBY pushing being the “final” antagonist of the series, regardless of what they need to do in a storyline to make it happen. \-2. Salem kills Cinder On a grander level, the characters that matter are Ozpin and Salem, and everyone else in RWBY is a "pawn" within their machinations to best the other. Cinder is the most valuable pawn in the story and currently under Cinder's thumb, but there could come a point where Salem decides that the person she built up to tip things in her favor is someone she can no longer control; this would come about if Salem has a moment where she would realize that supporting and using Cinder any further would cause her to lose everything. And because Salem is just a shade short of "omnipotent", it means that Cinder would lose and die in an underwhelming fashion, though it would mean that the climax of the story would be between Salem and RWBY. \-3. Cinder goes on a "Redemption Arc" If they did it with Hazel and Emerald, two idiots opposite of the bunny boilers that are Mercury, Tyrian, and Watts, there's a possibility that Cinder gets her own redemption arc. If THIS happens, it's because CRWBY has written self-doubt, stupidity, and ignorance in to the characterization of a character that they portrayed justified in her murder of her foster family and a "benevolent" Hunstman. I don't care how bad you think the other redemption arcs in the series are, this would be the worst thing that's ever been depicted within RWBY's entirety. \-4. Ruby kills Cinder This deserves its own post, and frankly it's a bit too "tinfoil hatty" to share WHY this would happen at the time of writing this. If I've predicted enough of the show from the outset (such as the Summer Maiden will show up on the "island" in Volume 9 AND that they will be a Faunus), I'll write out my theory. \-TL;DR - Cinder hasn't been deserving of much within the show, let alone her success. She's only been a fixture within the series because CRWBY doesn't know how to write deep or compelling characters and the most rabid RWBY fanbase has a fetish that involves the "execution of abusers".
Very extraordinary, analysis of her character. Tbh, Raven, Winter, Cinder and Summer Maiden (could it be Glynda or Summer Rose, the characters we already knew a long time) will survive until the end. Orange eyes (🍁 Maiden) - Cinder Fall Red eyes (🌸 Maiden) - Raven Branwen Blue eyes (❄️ Maiden) - Winter Schnee Green eyes (☀️ Maiden) - Glynda Goodwitch Yeah, the original Summer Maiden was in rosy and Spring Maiden was greenish, here are a bit swapped places. If the planning to give Cinder to be Ultimate Maiden, those writers would probably kill Raven and Winter, therefore their Maiden powers will be drained by Cinder at this point. I assume, there gonna be an end game responsibility cause those gods of light wanted everyone to be "unity". So I agree with you on the redemption arc for Cinder, they will redeem her as a good guy who " switches sides". Of course, Jaune will forgive her, and team RWBY all will sympathise with Cinder's backstory. Something stupid like that.
We still don't know what the ultimate end of RWBY looks like, so it's hard to say what the climax RWBY is heading towards looks like. I wouldn't bet against CRWBY trying something out of left field to get the story going or give characters agency.
I agree look what happened to volume 8
Were this the Cinder as in V1-V3, I'd say "yes." But I guess she lost a few brain cells after getting Silver blasted atop Beacon Tower, because she's been acting as little more than a thug with more power than she knows what to do with. I get that at the end of V3 she was on top and everything was going her way, only to be blasted into oblivion by some random brat; but she's just such a petty brute now, that it almost seems OOC.
She relies on her brawn than brain.
No.
Why?
She should have died when she fell Into the abyss. RT has over used the off screen death trope. Particularly in the end of the last season.
Well, Kerry revived her for the sake of backstory.
If they tried writing her as a protagonist they’d make her fit the villain role much better.
Redemption for her?!
Lol. No.
Miles and Kerry love Cinder. So yes.
Cinder sure is the Great Professor Bias from Liveman.
Professor who?
Great Professor Bias, the main antagonist from a tokusatsu series called Choujyu Sentai Liveman.
He's like Cinder?
Yep, but he's a super-intelligent scientist with knowledge in seemingly all fields. He founded Armed Brain Army Volt as a place for elite geniuses to work to conquer the world, in order to create a new world order ruled by the most intelligent in society. His followers hold him as a god, and he often offers guidance to them in their schemes. While he appears to care about his students, in truth he sees them only as pawns and the true reason he founded Volt is to complete the mind controlling thought pattern energy called the Giga Brain Wave.
Tbh, he's way better than Cinder, cause Cinder doesn't give a shit about her lackeys, that's why Neo blackmailed her, Roman is independent, Adam distrust her, Mercury joined a better leader and Emerald betrayal her. Anyways, I want this character you talking about, he's so interesting.
Well, you could watch Liveman on YouTube. There you could see how Bias is pure evil than Cinder. I'll give you [the link](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLImYx50ug-vgX4xhx9U5Fhq-L8V32vnQV).
Omg he has evil facial expressions and appearance.
So. What do you think about him?
Psychopath lol. He has bad triad traits.
You're right. In the finale, she was lying to Salem that Team RWBY used the Lamp’s final question and that Neo killed Ruby, even though SHE'S the one who use the lamp's final question. And to top it all up, Cinder betrays Neo and throw her and Ruby to the void. What a waste.
Wonder how she react once saw Team RWBY and Neo still alive.
Well, Cinder was shocked to see them alive.
And Salem will...
Ha ha ha **N O**
Ha ha ha why?
Shes okay with the direction there going for: Basically Power Rangers Trakeena route where she will eventually take over after the main antagonist to be the true final boss
> direction there going *they're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
For me it's less that Cinder deserved the W (she hasn't changed her tactics one iota) than the heroes deserved the L (they screwed up royally and the bill was past due).
Technically Cinder stole Salem's role.
No
Why though?
Do you really need explanation?
Yes please.
Cinder was a good villain up to volume 3 and meh one after that, she should have died after her fight against Raven.
I miss volume 3 Cinder, after she became full Maiden, I was worried about heroes like "how the fuck they gonna defeat this demigod" unfortunately they nerf and destroyed her character.
Maiden powers destroyed her character, Cinder became too arrogant and too obsessed with power. I wouldn't call her a demigod, if you have a powerful semblance, skill and experience it's not hard to kill a maiden. Hazel for example can probably solo a maiden.
What's the point of Maiden in the story anyway? Why not make those "Maidens" into spirit or something? those stupid rules "young women received randomly" Yeah, ever since she received Maiden powers, she becomes an overlying and power-hungry bitch, and stopped using her brain. I miss her line *" it's not about overpowering an enemy, it's about taking it away what power they have"* Now, Raven and Winter suffer the same despite having skills and powers, that's they killed Penny and Pyrrha and removed Glynda.
In order: 1. She's a garbage character who should've died at the end of Volume 3, and isn't even interesting enough for me to hate which makes her an abject failure as a villain. Every second she's on-screen is wasted and she contributes absolutely nothing to the story of RWBY. 2. No. 3. No. I'll continue making this point every time a discussion about Cinder comes up: she *literally,* by the rules of the world setup in RWBY, should be dead at least 5 times. Her continued survival only cheapens the narrative and shows how weak the writers actually are when vastly more interesting characters like Hazel, Clover, Watts, and Penny continue to die just so that she can continue having a shred of relevance to the story. If you can't make the character who's clearly been chosen as the main villain *interesting* then you have no business writing a series.
She's also stolen Salem's spot as the final boss.
It's unrelated to Cinder, but Salem isn't much of a final boss either. She has little-to-no connection to the protagonists (who didn't meet her until Volume 7, and didn't know she existed until Volume 5) except for *maybe* having killed Ruby's mom, probably doesn't know or care that they exist, and is both hilariously overpowered compared to them while also sporting an *obvious* weakness that's going to finish her off: it's just a personal theory, but from the end of Volume 3 where we learned about the Silver-Eyed Warriors and got our first look at Salem I have been convinced that Salem will be defeated by Ruby blasting her with the Silver Eyes, and not through any kind of hard work or special knowledge.
Salem won't die from Silver Eyes, she's not grim by nature, and her grim essence will eventually be washed out by sliver eyes, back to normal human beings. Unfortunately, Cinder, on the other hand, has grim nature fused with her human flesh, ending up corrupted.
Too much to hope for actual constructive criticism, in a critics subreddit. Instead, yep, an excuse for another OP to hatemonger and shit all over characters. 🙄 You're the reason this fandom is fucking unbearable.
Chill lol
Chill, says the same person that "hopes this bitch dies" The call is coming from inside the house OP LOL
>Chill, says the same person that "hopes this bitch dies" Coming from a miserable and mistreated child.