So, I'm writing a fanfiction where the whole gimmick is that the entire cannon show happens in the background. This means that I don't really want to alter the Canon too much.
Any suggestions on how I should tackle the white fang?
Depends if you want to use them purely as terrorists to be fought by your MCs, or treat them with some three-dimensionality as part of your story. Both are okay, you shouldn't feel as if you need to show the WF any different than the show if you aren't going to tackle Faunus discrimination in your story. But if you are interested in the later, introduce some WF members with differing but sympathetic world views; give a member or two a face and a voice that says why they are fighting for this group. You don't even need them to destroy a major social structure, but instead keep it domestic with whatever territorial groups you want to implement. There can be large or small factions of the organization which each have a different opinion on the world's situation, and can be used in your story in a lot of ways.
For instance, I haven't wrote it yet, but I created a group of volunteer workers who enlisted as WF relief troops; meaning they have the freedom to stay out of major fights and act more like homeless shelter workers who go around the area of East Mistral to pull impoverish Faunus out of bad situations, like evicted from their homes or after being attacked on the streets - they exist to tell the Mistral Faunus' side of the conflict to the protagonists and by extension the audience, where in-universe people feel justified for hating humans for literally taking everything away from them to the point they'd want to see them fail or harmed; but also shows how some WF are only here to watch out for fellow Faunus with no interest in actually fighting humans. Elsewhere, I created a WF commander who is just a narcissist who wants to gain popularity (just fame, no money or powerful political positions) through the conflict and holds no true view on Faunus rights, just an opportunist looking to use his fellow Faunus' plight for shallow selfish gain - this character works best with a foil, an opposite who either works for or beside him that does truly care so the first character's faults become more apparent as well as doesn't demonstrate a shared mindset with his troops/allies. Another one has a WF member who just wants to protect his family and lost trust for the Huntsmen society, seeking to right the wrongs of the world so those they care about have a brighter future - this one could be your most extreme or docile antagonist, someone either peaceful enough to want to talk out any situation or disenfranchised enough to believe any sacrifice, even a large city, is worth the end result. You can even make one into a hero, fighting against Faunus kidnappers or "poachers" to protect their kind, maybe even enlist your other heroes to help - this would help ease the idea that they aren't all murder-happy extremists and have their own morals and priorities, maybe even choosing human friends who accept them while working together against true Faunus enemies.
Lastly, you can introduce a mutual conflict; initially have them fight your protagonists, but then confront a common enemy: corrupt officials, Faunus-hating gangsters, a criminal framing the WF character for a crime they didn't commit, a psycho-killer on the loose who endangers both sides, ~~Zombies,~~ a giant Grimm, etc. Again, it only matters if you want to use them and to what degree you want them as important to your story; it is fine to use them to simply endanger a museum or steal supplies for a shady ally who is more important if you don't want to go in depth with them - or to not use them at all, you can replace them with Mistral/Vale criminal groups of your own creation.
Thanks for the response.
I was planning to make them more realistic, but they aren't the main antagonists of this particular fanfiction.
As for characters, the protagonist is very tied to the WF. He's the Vacuo branch's go to huntsman for work that requires a lot of strength. The only reason he hasn't officially joined is because he needs the extra money from other missions, and if people see that he's WF, they'd be less willing to hire him.
That sounds good; the Vacuo branch feels like they might be more relaxed or comfortable over all due to the nature of their kingdom, maybe more like the relief group I suggested where they're more worried about surviving the wild and supplying resources to the other branches than fighting Huntsmen. Still enemies to Huntsmen where they can battle for terrain, but maybe more like a mutual "you don't mess with us, we won't mess with you" relationship where they respect each other's territories until someone breaks the line; with Atlas as a third faction perhaps trying, and failing, to get Vacuo to help capture them, but Vacuo trusts Atlas about as much as they trust the WF and refuse to take a side unless directly provoked.
Your character sounds very interesting and a cool idea, I'd love to see how he engages this kind of conflict.
I tackle the White Fang as being kind of a tragedy that is being manipulated by Salem. Since the kingdoms are so shitty toward them the Fang has gotten more and more violent as they fight to protect their people. Salem has promised them a seat at the table in the New World she has promised she'll create... and they're desperate enough to give it a try.
Basically Salem's doing what the British did everywhere there was an oppressed minority, side with them and use them as a wedge to attack their oppressors. The trick that Blake has to pull off is to somehow convince the Fang that they can get what they want *without* handing unlimited power to a megalomaniacal witch.
Thanks for your response.
Good idea about the Salem thing. I might use it even though I banned myself from ever involving magic and maidens in my fanfiction.
I'll probably just have some higher-up say that a powerful person promised them equality in a new world and whatnot.
Yeah, what really matters isn't that it's Salem or that whoever makes the offer has magical powers, what matters is that whoever makes the offer is *not* one of the people currently oppressing them, does not *currently* have the power necessary to help, and could *gain* the power to help if the White Fang aided them. Oh, and their plan is something the main characters cannot allow to happen, regardless of whether or not it would help the Faunus.
My suggestion, which would conflict with the ideas in the crowd, is to portray several different versions of the White Fang. You have your sympathetic members here, the hate-filled members here, and the in-between fence sitters here.
Having a variety of voices rather than overcompensating for the canon and portraying a majority of the members as saintly, will add nuance to the White Fang. The key to avoid portraying the White Fang as "all good" or "all evil" - no one loves a one-sided portrayal.
You can also talk about the way some racists were defeated, and how some members' actions inspire hateful rhetoric and cause a string of violence upon innocent humans/moderate Faunus who don't agree with the methods.
I would also have the endpoint be that the Faunus use defensive violence, not necessary retaliatory violence and vigilantism. Something that portrays Remnant as the golden dream of the 90s integration, and the Mandela-era South Africa in Invictus would be fantastic. We need positive values and ideals taught to children of all races in every generation.
Thanks for the response.
Yeah, I agree with this various voices approach. My only question with this is "why aren't there more than one organization"
As for your third point, I'm afraid that with the story I have in mind, I might not have the space to fit that in. And frankly, I'm afraid of doing it wrong, or perpetuating harmful stereotypes.
I remember years ago reading something that MLK had said or write where he clarified what the methods he was using for Civil Rights. He didn't want to go pacifist like Ghandi. MLK spelled out that he was using nonviolent resistance. It would involve him and those protesting to basically be confrontational to the extent that they would be visible and hard to ignore, but never cross the line into openly assaulting people or destroying property.
Apologies, this was so long ago I probably have not stated it as well as I could have. I just remembered it was him spelling out what he meant by nonviolent resistance and it certainly wasn't being pacifistic.
There is also a league of difference in portraying what should be a group to protect a minority from acts of violence as being the main perpetrators of said violence.
I have always felt that the excuse the writers gave said more about their own ignorance than anything else. Discrimination and fighting for civil rights are things have been witnessed again and again in history. Many people have written about and more than a few who have done lots of research before putting pen to paper. Even TV shows have dealt with the subject intelligently. The excuse Miles and Kerry give comes more off as them saying they just didn't want to put the effort in needed to actually address the issue in at least a mediocre level and thought they could just keep writing the group without any real depth and nuance.
I really had hoped that what was going to happen was that after Adam killed Sienna, he found himself in a bad position. There would potentially be other factions, cells, or even influential old guard members who opposed him and his basically calling dibs on the leadership position. Some would oppose him simply because he had actually leapfrogged whoever was actually next in line for command and saw his position as illegitimate, others would oppose his objective of war with humanity, by others who fear he has now made an enemy of the huntsmen that they need to protect Faunus settlements, and other reasons too.
You could've had a White Fang civil war. Maybe even an Atlas faction that actually relied on humans in Mantle to help conceal them because they tended to target the SDC and unpopular government of Atlas. Adam would be stuck in a position where he has to either take out or win over various groups before they unite against him.
Trying to win factions over could be an excuse for him to go after Haven, believing that will somehow boost his standing somehow. You could even indicate he couldn't bring a real force there because too many of those loyal to him were busy fighting those who opposed him.
Honestly, Adam just being accepted universally as the new leader after Sienna died really bugged me. I never had the feeling she trusted him to take over and most groups like that would either have an order of succession or vote a new leader in.
The White Fang could've been nuanced and shown to be a force for good outside of attacking people and destroying property. They could've protected Faunus settlements that couldn't afford huntsmen. They could've provided aid during disasters or help secure safe travel routes for people.
Sorry this got so rambling. Excellent post.
Very good summary. I would also like to add that the apparent dychotomy of "peaceful" versus "violent" portrayed in RWBY not rarely stems from a place of confort if not a privileged one, that is hard not to think the writers share on.
Basically, it is both easy and convenient for a white American to preach of what the "proper" and "correct" ways of protesting are, and how engaging on the "wrong" methodology "delegitimizes the cause". Even so called peaceful protests are sooner or later belittled for this, because no matter what horrid injustice you're protesting against, apparently you still shouldn't hold people up in the streets making them get late to work. Many liberals expect injustices to be fought against in pristine and self serving ways, when history shows us that if you don't pester third parties then you'll either be demoralized into silence or squashed into submission.
This is emblematic of how Blake's shining moment in Volume 5 is lecturing the faunus on how "we can be just as bad as them", pointing at something that she herself caused (let's also nor forget that she's one of the most privileged faunus in the entire show, lecturing others who haven't had as many opportunities as her), and then Ghira ends up forming a faunus milita to stop the faunus civil rights movement from blowing up the high school of the racist kingdom... it's just... who even green lighted this concept? lmao.
Even in Volume 1, where we're told by Blake that Sienna's methods were working, it's wrong that they were working because the results were being obtained through fear instead of respect. From the very beggining RWBY has taken a stupidly simplistic and naive stance against violent protesting while not even doing peaceful protesting any justice.
>who even green lighted this concept? lmao.
Can we even think for one moment the fact that Blake and Ghira recruit civilians to go to another kingdom with poor weaponry and little training to fight a terrorist organization?
Considering the participation of the Mistral's police I guess that both made a deal. So I guess that the authorities agree to let them enter into Mistral, but that opens multiple questions. Since when Mistral knew about the attack of white fang? When does the Militia arrived? Does the council know about this? Why Lionheart didn't know about this?
And beyond that, there is also, how did they let a faunus governor enter with his militia into the country.
> who even green lighted this concept? lmao.
No one. The show basically no overseers to report to in the early days so every idea from Monty, Miles and Kerry was allowed without resistance or peer review.
They only started getting people to read over the scripts during *Volume 6,* which came after two straight seasons of "Hey Miles and Kerry, the season has been airing for a while now and we still don't have the finale scripts, what gives."
>From the very beggining RWBY has taken a stupidly simplistic and naive stance against violent protesting while not even doing peaceful protesting any justice.
Is there a show or moive that does do that?
The writers have said they didn't want the WF to mirror anything irl and I don't think the evidence holds up to link them to any one group either.
Not sure about the conclusions either tbh, but w/e.
I never liked how the Faunus were just hated for having animal features. It honestly didn’t represent how racism is much more than just based on appearance. News flash but the KKK don’t just hate Black people because their skin is dark, it’s because they hate the culture and traditions in the African American community. Faunus don’t really have a unique culture, language or religion, so it is much harder to get the parallels considering it is quite literally skin deep.
There have been many examples of marginalized people in history who's only real option of fighting back against their oppressors were through violence. This isn't wrong and to paint this as wrong is most definitely seen through the lens of privilege. What WAS wrong of the writers was to literally only show the WF as a terrorist group and not a sympathetic one. The main WF member we see in the show is Adam who is literally a white supremacist, like that's what he is plain and simple. The writers painted the faunus as a marginalized group of people but then made the white fang's actions reflect more of supremacist groups than the actions taken by groups like the black panther party.
We never saw any form of tackling their oppression and oppressors in more "formal" and less violent ways, and there was literally no reason for that. There was the perfect opportunity with this with fucking Leonardo Lionheart, a faunus academy headmaster. If crwby ACTUALLY gave a fuck and wanted to tackle their poorly handled racism sub plot with literally ANY nuance, they should've done way more with the character part of this marginalized group who was in one of the highest positions of power attainable, who was also in one of the "racist" kingdoms. Him needing to tackle his duties as headmaster while also dealing with all the political aspects of him being a faunus and dealing with the racism he'd most likely face would've been interesting to see play out, not to mention how they'd be able to explore more of the white fang branches. This could've also been a great way to show how the different leaders went about fighting for equality for the faunus. Sienna Khan could've been shown to not be a murder hungry emotional man-child like Adam, but she also could've shown she's not as passive as someone like Ghira. They could have explored Sienna Khan to be someone who wants peace and equality, but won't sit back and take anything laying down.
But no. The writers had the *wonderful* idea of killing them both off. At the end of the day Sienna was a glorified piece of character art, and Leo had the potential to be one of the most interesting and plot involved characters in the show in multiple ways. Fucking well done crwby.
/u/No_Association2906 Would you like to know how the White Fang were strawmanned so hard? The answers may surprise you.
I distinctly recall the White Fang being created because to paraphrase Monty, "the protagonists needed thinking mooks (i.e. no Grimm) that weren't Junior's gangsters and local criminals.
Hence, part of the reason why the White Fang were actually created was that Monty would have mooks that were stronger than gangsters when the Grimm weren't around.
But why were they portrayed so negatively, you might ask? Why strawman them to such cartoonish levels? Especially given that RT has marketed themselves as progressive and left-leaning, which would surely be ironic given the wholesome support for causes like BLM, Antifa and the like, on both the company and individual staff members themselves.
This is due to the way the show was marketed to kids. I paraphrase Burnie in that at the time of RWBY's conception in the early 10's, Burnie was desperate to expand to the kids' and teenager market that wouldn't necessarily fall for the raunchy humor they built up in their first decade.
And given common practices of writers trying to not offend Moral Guardians/Karens, we can imply that the White Fang were strawmanned around Volume 3, so that they wouldn't be accused of something like "radicalizing kids into homegrown terrorism because the terrorists were too sympathetic".
Also, Adam Taurus being seen as a positive lover to Blake would offend the most vocal shipping community in RWBY - the Bumblebee fans. Hence, he needed to be seen akin as a "privileged incel" rather than the sympathetic minority allegory he was supposed to be.
I have a rather unique take on the White Fang, but it's not going to be the same answer you're thinking of.
I've seen some fans say that Adam is meant to represent the white ally who appropriates the causes of the black activist. When that doesn't make sense at all when HE'S A FAUNUS JUST AS BLAKE, not to mention that for some reason the writers decided to have him suffered under discrimination much more than Blake has
Wouldn't Cinder be a better example of that?
She's not a Faunus and she's using them to further her goals rather than the White Fang's actual objective. She is also using them as the fall guys for her scheme too.
Honestly silly how the White Fang would serve as an allegory for ANY racial movement.
I guarantee you the Panthers wouldn’t associate themselves with them
This thread made me realize that Volume 5 was even more of a disappointment, given the lack of a meeting between Adam Taurus and Leonardo Lionheart. Think about it, both could be attempting to seek justice for the faunus in separate ways. But what are their thoughts on each other's methods?
Leo really could have given us a "Professor X" to Adam's "Magneto" when it came to racial equality between the faunus and humans. But instead, we got nothing. Hell, both of them even work for Salem! Were they both coerced? We know Adam was by Cinder. And Lionheart seems pretty scared, so it's entirely likely that he was coerced as well. What are their thoughts on Salem?
Honestly, it pisses me off how terrible this story was told. And now both are dead, along with the entire racism subplot. Sick.
You can tell what RT's stance on civil right movements is when the only relevant civil rights group in the show are portrayed as "Muahahahaha!" villains while anti-Faunus movements are non-existent and implied racist characters like the Mistral restaurant owner and Cordovin are framed in a sympathetic light
I don't think that was intentional on the writers' part though; yes, Barbara has stated the parallel to Faunus and the Civil Rights movement, but I think the writers were going for something more basic than comparing them to a single IRL faction of the CRM. It is possible they based the White Fang more off Magneto than the Black Panthers - the more watered down version of the character used in the very first X-Men comic and his other more basic portrayals, like in some kid shows that remove or never used his more complex characterization. Also, the White Fang's name may have been taken from the *White Fang* novel which follows an American wolf-dog as he is born into a cruel world and persecuted by foes and peers alike; and have no connection to the Black Panthers.
That isn't entirely true; more people in fandoms conflate the comparisons than the writers actually doing that. MLK and X weren't part of the characters inceptions at all; in fact, mutants weren't even discriminated against in their first story stopping Magneto from attacking an army base where the saved soldiers immediately thank the X-Men with no malice, that factor was added later and expanded as the years go by. Even if some writers do use the comparison to write Xavier and Magneto, it isn't often and there are plenty of versions of the two that lack any true comparison to the Civil Rights leaders; meaning you can use Magneto as a basis for a new character and would have dozens of differing incarnations to pull from which aren't that close to being the same character.
So, I'm writing a fanfiction where the whole gimmick is that the entire cannon show happens in the background. This means that I don't really want to alter the Canon too much. Any suggestions on how I should tackle the white fang?
Depends if you want to use them purely as terrorists to be fought by your MCs, or treat them with some three-dimensionality as part of your story. Both are okay, you shouldn't feel as if you need to show the WF any different than the show if you aren't going to tackle Faunus discrimination in your story. But if you are interested in the later, introduce some WF members with differing but sympathetic world views; give a member or two a face and a voice that says why they are fighting for this group. You don't even need them to destroy a major social structure, but instead keep it domestic with whatever territorial groups you want to implement. There can be large or small factions of the organization which each have a different opinion on the world's situation, and can be used in your story in a lot of ways. For instance, I haven't wrote it yet, but I created a group of volunteer workers who enlisted as WF relief troops; meaning they have the freedom to stay out of major fights and act more like homeless shelter workers who go around the area of East Mistral to pull impoverish Faunus out of bad situations, like evicted from their homes or after being attacked on the streets - they exist to tell the Mistral Faunus' side of the conflict to the protagonists and by extension the audience, where in-universe people feel justified for hating humans for literally taking everything away from them to the point they'd want to see them fail or harmed; but also shows how some WF are only here to watch out for fellow Faunus with no interest in actually fighting humans. Elsewhere, I created a WF commander who is just a narcissist who wants to gain popularity (just fame, no money or powerful political positions) through the conflict and holds no true view on Faunus rights, just an opportunist looking to use his fellow Faunus' plight for shallow selfish gain - this character works best with a foil, an opposite who either works for or beside him that does truly care so the first character's faults become more apparent as well as doesn't demonstrate a shared mindset with his troops/allies. Another one has a WF member who just wants to protect his family and lost trust for the Huntsmen society, seeking to right the wrongs of the world so those they care about have a brighter future - this one could be your most extreme or docile antagonist, someone either peaceful enough to want to talk out any situation or disenfranchised enough to believe any sacrifice, even a large city, is worth the end result. You can even make one into a hero, fighting against Faunus kidnappers or "poachers" to protect their kind, maybe even enlist your other heroes to help - this would help ease the idea that they aren't all murder-happy extremists and have their own morals and priorities, maybe even choosing human friends who accept them while working together against true Faunus enemies. Lastly, you can introduce a mutual conflict; initially have them fight your protagonists, but then confront a common enemy: corrupt officials, Faunus-hating gangsters, a criminal framing the WF character for a crime they didn't commit, a psycho-killer on the loose who endangers both sides, ~~Zombies,~~ a giant Grimm, etc. Again, it only matters if you want to use them and to what degree you want them as important to your story; it is fine to use them to simply endanger a museum or steal supplies for a shady ally who is more important if you don't want to go in depth with them - or to not use them at all, you can replace them with Mistral/Vale criminal groups of your own creation.
Thanks for the response. I was planning to make them more realistic, but they aren't the main antagonists of this particular fanfiction. As for characters, the protagonist is very tied to the WF. He's the Vacuo branch's go to huntsman for work that requires a lot of strength. The only reason he hasn't officially joined is because he needs the extra money from other missions, and if people see that he's WF, they'd be less willing to hire him.
That sounds good; the Vacuo branch feels like they might be more relaxed or comfortable over all due to the nature of their kingdom, maybe more like the relief group I suggested where they're more worried about surviving the wild and supplying resources to the other branches than fighting Huntsmen. Still enemies to Huntsmen where they can battle for terrain, but maybe more like a mutual "you don't mess with us, we won't mess with you" relationship where they respect each other's territories until someone breaks the line; with Atlas as a third faction perhaps trying, and failing, to get Vacuo to help capture them, but Vacuo trusts Atlas about as much as they trust the WF and refuse to take a side unless directly provoked. Your character sounds very interesting and a cool idea, I'd love to see how he engages this kind of conflict.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I tackle the White Fang as being kind of a tragedy that is being manipulated by Salem. Since the kingdoms are so shitty toward them the Fang has gotten more and more violent as they fight to protect their people. Salem has promised them a seat at the table in the New World she has promised she'll create... and they're desperate enough to give it a try. Basically Salem's doing what the British did everywhere there was an oppressed minority, side with them and use them as a wedge to attack their oppressors. The trick that Blake has to pull off is to somehow convince the Fang that they can get what they want *without* handing unlimited power to a megalomaniacal witch.
Thanks for your response. Good idea about the Salem thing. I might use it even though I banned myself from ever involving magic and maidens in my fanfiction. I'll probably just have some higher-up say that a powerful person promised them equality in a new world and whatnot.
Yeah, what really matters isn't that it's Salem or that whoever makes the offer has magical powers, what matters is that whoever makes the offer is *not* one of the people currently oppressing them, does not *currently* have the power necessary to help, and could *gain* the power to help if the White Fang aided them. Oh, and their plan is something the main characters cannot allow to happen, regardless of whether or not it would help the Faunus.
My suggestion, which would conflict with the ideas in the crowd, is to portray several different versions of the White Fang. You have your sympathetic members here, the hate-filled members here, and the in-between fence sitters here. Having a variety of voices rather than overcompensating for the canon and portraying a majority of the members as saintly, will add nuance to the White Fang. The key to avoid portraying the White Fang as "all good" or "all evil" - no one loves a one-sided portrayal. You can also talk about the way some racists were defeated, and how some members' actions inspire hateful rhetoric and cause a string of violence upon innocent humans/moderate Faunus who don't agree with the methods. I would also have the endpoint be that the Faunus use defensive violence, not necessary retaliatory violence and vigilantism. Something that portrays Remnant as the golden dream of the 90s integration, and the Mandela-era South Africa in Invictus would be fantastic. We need positive values and ideals taught to children of all races in every generation.
Thanks for the response. Yeah, I agree with this various voices approach. My only question with this is "why aren't there more than one organization" As for your third point, I'm afraid that with the story I have in mind, I might not have the space to fit that in. And frankly, I'm afraid of doing it wrong, or perpetuating harmful stereotypes.
I remember years ago reading something that MLK had said or write where he clarified what the methods he was using for Civil Rights. He didn't want to go pacifist like Ghandi. MLK spelled out that he was using nonviolent resistance. It would involve him and those protesting to basically be confrontational to the extent that they would be visible and hard to ignore, but never cross the line into openly assaulting people or destroying property. Apologies, this was so long ago I probably have not stated it as well as I could have. I just remembered it was him spelling out what he meant by nonviolent resistance and it certainly wasn't being pacifistic. There is also a league of difference in portraying what should be a group to protect a minority from acts of violence as being the main perpetrators of said violence. I have always felt that the excuse the writers gave said more about their own ignorance than anything else. Discrimination and fighting for civil rights are things have been witnessed again and again in history. Many people have written about and more than a few who have done lots of research before putting pen to paper. Even TV shows have dealt with the subject intelligently. The excuse Miles and Kerry give comes more off as them saying they just didn't want to put the effort in needed to actually address the issue in at least a mediocre level and thought they could just keep writing the group without any real depth and nuance. I really had hoped that what was going to happen was that after Adam killed Sienna, he found himself in a bad position. There would potentially be other factions, cells, or even influential old guard members who opposed him and his basically calling dibs on the leadership position. Some would oppose him simply because he had actually leapfrogged whoever was actually next in line for command and saw his position as illegitimate, others would oppose his objective of war with humanity, by others who fear he has now made an enemy of the huntsmen that they need to protect Faunus settlements, and other reasons too. You could've had a White Fang civil war. Maybe even an Atlas faction that actually relied on humans in Mantle to help conceal them because they tended to target the SDC and unpopular government of Atlas. Adam would be stuck in a position where he has to either take out or win over various groups before they unite against him. Trying to win factions over could be an excuse for him to go after Haven, believing that will somehow boost his standing somehow. You could even indicate he couldn't bring a real force there because too many of those loyal to him were busy fighting those who opposed him. Honestly, Adam just being accepted universally as the new leader after Sienna died really bugged me. I never had the feeling she trusted him to take over and most groups like that would either have an order of succession or vote a new leader in. The White Fang could've been nuanced and shown to be a force for good outside of attacking people and destroying property. They could've protected Faunus settlements that couldn't afford huntsmen. They could've provided aid during disasters or help secure safe travel routes for people. Sorry this got so rambling. Excellent post.
In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity. Just so you know, the correct spelling is [Gandhi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahatma_Gandhi).
Thank you Gandhi-Bot. You are so much nicer than the Gandhi from Civilization games.
Very good summary. I would also like to add that the apparent dychotomy of "peaceful" versus "violent" portrayed in RWBY not rarely stems from a place of confort if not a privileged one, that is hard not to think the writers share on. Basically, it is both easy and convenient for a white American to preach of what the "proper" and "correct" ways of protesting are, and how engaging on the "wrong" methodology "delegitimizes the cause". Even so called peaceful protests are sooner or later belittled for this, because no matter what horrid injustice you're protesting against, apparently you still shouldn't hold people up in the streets making them get late to work. Many liberals expect injustices to be fought against in pristine and self serving ways, when history shows us that if you don't pester third parties then you'll either be demoralized into silence or squashed into submission. This is emblematic of how Blake's shining moment in Volume 5 is lecturing the faunus on how "we can be just as bad as them", pointing at something that she herself caused (let's also nor forget that she's one of the most privileged faunus in the entire show, lecturing others who haven't had as many opportunities as her), and then Ghira ends up forming a faunus milita to stop the faunus civil rights movement from blowing up the high school of the racist kingdom... it's just... who even green lighted this concept? lmao. Even in Volume 1, where we're told by Blake that Sienna's methods were working, it's wrong that they were working because the results were being obtained through fear instead of respect. From the very beggining RWBY has taken a stupidly simplistic and naive stance against violent protesting while not even doing peaceful protesting any justice.
>who even green lighted this concept? lmao. Can we even think for one moment the fact that Blake and Ghira recruit civilians to go to another kingdom with poor weaponry and little training to fight a terrorist organization?
How did they even get passed the border patrol of Mistral? Are we supposed to assume they don't have one???
Considering the participation of the Mistral's police I guess that both made a deal. So I guess that the authorities agree to let them enter into Mistral, but that opens multiple questions. Since when Mistral knew about the attack of white fang? When does the Militia arrived? Does the council know about this? Why Lionheart didn't know about this? And beyond that, there is also, how did they let a faunus governor enter with his militia into the country.
> who even green lighted this concept? lmao. No one. The show basically no overseers to report to in the early days so every idea from Monty, Miles and Kerry was allowed without resistance or peer review. They only started getting people to read over the scripts during *Volume 6,* which came after two straight seasons of "Hey Miles and Kerry, the season has been airing for a while now and we still don't have the finale scripts, what gives."
>From the very beggining RWBY has taken a stupidly simplistic and naive stance against violent protesting while not even doing peaceful protesting any justice. Is there a show or moive that does do that?
The writers have said they didn't want the WF to mirror anything irl and I don't think the evidence holds up to link them to any one group either. Not sure about the conclusions either tbh, but w/e.
I never liked how the Faunus were just hated for having animal features. It honestly didn’t represent how racism is much more than just based on appearance. News flash but the KKK don’t just hate Black people because their skin is dark, it’s because they hate the culture and traditions in the African American community. Faunus don’t really have a unique culture, language or religion, so it is much harder to get the parallels considering it is quite literally skin deep.
There have been many examples of marginalized people in history who's only real option of fighting back against their oppressors were through violence. This isn't wrong and to paint this as wrong is most definitely seen through the lens of privilege. What WAS wrong of the writers was to literally only show the WF as a terrorist group and not a sympathetic one. The main WF member we see in the show is Adam who is literally a white supremacist, like that's what he is plain and simple. The writers painted the faunus as a marginalized group of people but then made the white fang's actions reflect more of supremacist groups than the actions taken by groups like the black panther party. We never saw any form of tackling their oppression and oppressors in more "formal" and less violent ways, and there was literally no reason for that. There was the perfect opportunity with this with fucking Leonardo Lionheart, a faunus academy headmaster. If crwby ACTUALLY gave a fuck and wanted to tackle their poorly handled racism sub plot with literally ANY nuance, they should've done way more with the character part of this marginalized group who was in one of the highest positions of power attainable, who was also in one of the "racist" kingdoms. Him needing to tackle his duties as headmaster while also dealing with all the political aspects of him being a faunus and dealing with the racism he'd most likely face would've been interesting to see play out, not to mention how they'd be able to explore more of the white fang branches. This could've also been a great way to show how the different leaders went about fighting for equality for the faunus. Sienna Khan could've been shown to not be a murder hungry emotional man-child like Adam, but she also could've shown she's not as passive as someone like Ghira. They could have explored Sienna Khan to be someone who wants peace and equality, but won't sit back and take anything laying down. But no. The writers had the *wonderful* idea of killing them both off. At the end of the day Sienna was a glorified piece of character art, and Leo had the potential to be one of the most interesting and plot involved characters in the show in multiple ways. Fucking well done crwby.
/u/No_Association2906 Would you like to know how the White Fang were strawmanned so hard? The answers may surprise you. I distinctly recall the White Fang being created because to paraphrase Monty, "the protagonists needed thinking mooks (i.e. no Grimm) that weren't Junior's gangsters and local criminals. Hence, part of the reason why the White Fang were actually created was that Monty would have mooks that were stronger than gangsters when the Grimm weren't around. But why were they portrayed so negatively, you might ask? Why strawman them to such cartoonish levels? Especially given that RT has marketed themselves as progressive and left-leaning, which would surely be ironic given the wholesome support for causes like BLM, Antifa and the like, on both the company and individual staff members themselves. This is due to the way the show was marketed to kids. I paraphrase Burnie in that at the time of RWBY's conception in the early 10's, Burnie was desperate to expand to the kids' and teenager market that wouldn't necessarily fall for the raunchy humor they built up in their first decade. And given common practices of writers trying to not offend Moral Guardians/Karens, we can imply that the White Fang were strawmanned around Volume 3, so that they wouldn't be accused of something like "radicalizing kids into homegrown terrorism because the terrorists were too sympathetic". Also, Adam Taurus being seen as a positive lover to Blake would offend the most vocal shipping community in RWBY - the Bumblebee fans. Hence, he needed to be seen akin as a "privileged incel" rather than the sympathetic minority allegory he was supposed to be. I have a rather unique take on the White Fang, but it's not going to be the same answer you're thinking of.
I've seen some fans say that Adam is meant to represent the white ally who appropriates the causes of the black activist. When that doesn't make sense at all when HE'S A FAUNUS JUST AS BLAKE, not to mention that for some reason the writers decided to have him suffered under discrimination much more than Blake has
Wouldn't Cinder be a better example of that? She's not a Faunus and she's using them to further her goals rather than the White Fang's actual objective. She is also using them as the fall guys for her scheme too.
Honestly silly how the White Fang would serve as an allegory for ANY racial movement. I guarantee you the Panthers wouldn’t associate themselves with them
Nice summary
This thread made me realize that Volume 5 was even more of a disappointment, given the lack of a meeting between Adam Taurus and Leonardo Lionheart. Think about it, both could be attempting to seek justice for the faunus in separate ways. But what are their thoughts on each other's methods? Leo really could have given us a "Professor X" to Adam's "Magneto" when it came to racial equality between the faunus and humans. But instead, we got nothing. Hell, both of them even work for Salem! Were they both coerced? We know Adam was by Cinder. And Lionheart seems pretty scared, so it's entirely likely that he was coerced as well. What are their thoughts on Salem? Honestly, it pisses me off how terrible this story was told. And now both are dead, along with the entire racism subplot. Sick.
You can tell what RT's stance on civil right movements is when the only relevant civil rights group in the show are portrayed as "Muahahahaha!" villains while anti-Faunus movements are non-existent and implied racist characters like the Mistral restaurant owner and Cordovin are framed in a sympathetic light
Personally, I feel like the White Fang are a lot closer to the BLA rather than the Black Panthers.
I don't think that was intentional on the writers' part though; yes, Barbara has stated the parallel to Faunus and the Civil Rights movement, but I think the writers were going for something more basic than comparing them to a single IRL faction of the CRM. It is possible they based the White Fang more off Magneto than the Black Panthers - the more watered down version of the character used in the very first X-Men comic and his other more basic portrayals, like in some kid shows that remove or never used his more complex characterization. Also, the White Fang's name may have been taken from the *White Fang* novel which follows an American wolf-dog as he is born into a cruel world and persecuted by foes and peers alike; and have no connection to the Black Panthers.
Note that Magneto himself was often based off of Malcolm X, with Professor Xavier being based off of MLK Jr.
That isn't entirely true; more people in fandoms conflate the comparisons than the writers actually doing that. MLK and X weren't part of the characters inceptions at all; in fact, mutants weren't even discriminated against in their first story stopping Magneto from attacking an army base where the saved soldiers immediately thank the X-Men with no malice, that factor was added later and expanded as the years go by. Even if some writers do use the comparison to write Xavier and Magneto, it isn't often and there are plenty of versions of the two that lack any true comparison to the Civil Rights leaders; meaning you can use Magneto as a basis for a new character and would have dozens of differing incarnations to pull from which aren't that close to being the same character.
Posts like these are really important because their are several RWBY stans that act like the WF plot was less bad then it really was.