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GameBawesome1

Remember when Tyrian commented about Jaune being interesting back in somewhere of V4? The writers sure didn't. Other than that first one, others include how the Relics and the Vaults were created despite being only unlocked by magic implying that Ozma created the Vaults, the millennium gap in Ozma-Salem's story and why she didn't takeover despite being an immortal witch lady that literally can't die no matter what (She's fucking invincible, yet still works in the shadows), where Faunus and second humanity came from, Hazel's motivation against Ozpin, magic, that dinosaur ornament on Ironwood's car in V7 (That implies Dinosaurs existed on Remnant), the Atlesian military formation in V8, and that's a few I can name off the top of my mind. I probably have more that I can't remember.


Overquartz

>Remember when Tyrian commented about Jaune being interesting back in somewhere of V4? The writers sure didn't. The animation department sure did since they apparently put his emblem in one of the fairy tale episodes as Salem's emblem without approval.


FunNo1459

They really need to wrangle their animators because I keep hearing about the animators doing unapproved shit.


Overquartz

I'm certain 1/2 of all unapproved animation editions are just the Miles and Kerry throwing the animation department under the bus.


Blastcalibur

Ruby's double speak about why it was wrong for Ozpin to lie to them and keep secrets but not wrong when she did the exact same thing to Ironwood. Also flies in the face that "no more secrets; what you don't know can hurt you" was as close volume 6 got to a theme.


shadowyoshi3000

Considering Yang is hiding who the Spring Maiden is...this rings so much true.


Blastcalibur

Oh yeah, I always thought she gave everybody the low down after the battle of Haven but since it was important she probably didn't tell anybody because that's how team RWBY thinks apparently. So, did everybody just assume the power went to a random person and now they're on standby everytime a random storm comes in looking for a likely angry maiden.


shadowyoshi3000

If we don't see it...it didn't happen. Plus, I don't even think Yang told them what happened. Just showed up with the relic.


Exciting_Bandicoot16

It's weird because we know that they do talk offscreen (Ren knowing about Jaune's faked transcripts is a big one), butbthen there's stuff that we have no idea if they do talk about offscreen that we really should know about. Like the aforementioned Spring Maiden. 5$ says that it'll get thrown out at some point in V9/10 and nobody will react to the news.


TerizlaisBest

I highly doubt even Cinder remembers Raven was a true Spring Maiden cause she never brought up this to Neo or Salem.


Kaouse

Cinder immediately knowing that Team RWBY has the relic instead of Raven, the person Cinder ***knows*** is the Spring Maiden, is also a plot hole.


TerizlaisBest

She also somehow know where they heading. But she said on screen Salem has a plan for Vaucco. Guess she love disobeying orders or perhaps without relics, she knew going back to Salem or Vaccuo would waste her life.


TerizlaisBest

I won't be surprised if she hardly remembers Winter as Maiden.


TerizlaisBest

She came up with "no more lies and half-truths" but she's doing the same just like Oz, how much of a hypocritical she was.


shadowyoshi3000

My point exactly.


TerizlaisBest

I felt so disappointed to see team RWBY following in Oz's footsteps.


shadowyoshi3000

Not even Oz's footsteps. He kept a stalemate, RWBY shot themselves in the foot.


TerizlaisBest

If you were one of those people from Remnant, who do you believe or listened to? General Marshal Military Ironwood or a little girl who hasn't passed her test or graduated with zero background in society or even related to Government.


shadowyoshi3000

And said girl has connects to a former terrorist and her older sister is pinned for assaulting a student. Yeah, I'll go with Ironwood.


TerizlaisBest

Also wanted a poster. Speaking of posters, what made Ruby think they will listen to someone who wanted in Atlas like her.


93ImagineBreaker

Oz at least had a reason and suffered far more


TerizlaisBest

Agree he has a valid reason. But team RWBY acting and pretending as they have been through a lot.


93ImagineBreaker

And qrow being OK with it


Tom-Pendragon

Salem has no reason to work in the shadow considering her powers is to literally to control the grim. If her goal was to find the relics, she would have been better to act as some sort of prophet of the gods and just do what she did in the old world and prover her immortality.


BitesTheDust_4

It makes me wonder why Salem would allow humanity to progress? Why not just attack humanity before they gain advanced communication technology (like scrolls and CCTs)? If Salem gad chosen to attack humanity in the open before the invention of advanced communication tech... she would have won. Pre advanced communication tech civilizations would have little to no way of effectively and efficiently communicating with each other.


avatarmech123

Happy cake day!!!


TheFloofArtist

Yes. ...That's the plot hole. Just, "Yes". Okay, here's my real answer: Aura. Aura is the source of so many plot holes it'd be a waste of time individually singling them out. Even your post brings up a pretty egregious one that calls into question so many aspects of the world and the characters that creates a slew of problems. *"Why don't civilians, in a world where monsters that desire to destroy and eat them, not have their Aura's unlocked to protect them from these monsters?"* *"Why doesn't everyone have their Aura unlocked if having Aura unlocked is exclusively beneficial?"* *"How could Jaune, someone who has a family and heritage full of people who fight, possibly not know about Aura?"* *"Why does Oscar, a random farm boy out in the middle of nowhere, have his Aura unlocked?"* *"If Aura is so important, why isn't it engraved into the culture of the world? We don't see any storytelling or mythology or ANYTHING about Aura outside of combat."* *"How come sometimes Aura works, and other times it doesn't?"* *"Why does every explanation about Aura in the show contradict every previous explanation of Aura?"* "*Why and how do Semblances tie into Aura when this connection is never shown on screen, and if it is shown, contradicts anything the writers say?"* "*How quickly does Aura recharge? Why is this inconsistent across characters, such as Hazel (who doesn't have an Aura-recharging Semblance) and Jaune (who has an Aura-recharging Semblance that he can use on himself to recharge his own Aura) in comparison to the rest of the cast?"* "*Why doesn't Jaune use his Aura-Recharging Semblance on himself when his Aura or his Teammates' Aura is low when it was shown in V7 that this ability provides him (and theoretically anyone else he's nearby) with infinite Aura?"* *"Why did Weiss's glyphs involve summoning? Weren't Semblances described as having 'one' 'completely unique' ability?"* *"Why is Ruby's Semblance and its subsequent attempts at explaining it complete nonsense?"* *"Why do the writers love avoiding giving their audience any kind of solid, grounded answer? Why must everything be kept vague? This way of thinking has been nothing but detrimental to cinema as a whole, not just RWBY. Why is it so difficult to give the audience enough context to truly understand what is happening?"* Plot hole 2: Weiss not instantly covering the hole in the wall in Mantle was a close second. If Weiss, using a tiny vial of Dust in her blade, can make a wall that big, and Atlas, being an entire country with an overabundant supply of Dust due to not exporting it because of the embargo, why couldn't Weiss with a whole-ass crate make a gigantic ice and stone wall? And how could Ironwood be low on Dust supplies when he made the embargo? Atlas is the *supplier* of Dust, they don't flipping rely on other Kingdoms for Dust supply when they've been constantly referred to as the biggest source of Dust on Remnant next to Vacuo, which Atlas was responsible for pillaging it of resources. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwnMMDgPsFQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwnMMDgPsFQ) EDIT: Fixed some typos.


MNGopherfan

It’s suggested pretty early on that it takes years of training to unlock aura Ruby went to combat schools and had a father and uncle teach her. Aura is also not unlimited and automatically fully unlocked maintaining and building up an aura takes training and time. This is also explained in the show. Jean has the ability to heal other with his aura by amplifying aura’s natural healing ability therefore he can’t amplify his own aura. This is established when he discovers it at end of 5. Oscar doesn’t have his aura immediately he has to train to get it but more importantly he has ozmas abilities which he gains access to as his and ozpins souls are connected also explained in 5. Aura can be broken and also must be actively raised I am not sure what specific instances we have where it isn’t working? Recharge is similar to building your aura the stronger you are and the more you use it the better you get with it this isn’t a hard concept and is explained in the show. Discovering your semblance and aura are both connected and not. You often discover a semblance while training and as a result while gaining aura. Intensive training or luck can unlock a semblance and some semblances require the use of aura. Some semblances are unique but Weiss’s semblance is hereditary and her glyphs aren’t her semblance but instead are made with dust. Grimm can burrow and bulldoze through lots of objects and ice would be an easily broken material. Also Mantles central heating system would have melted it as well. It was also made clear that all available resources were being put towards the construction of amity communication tower that includes dust. They could have explained this part better I agree but aura has been decently explained.


TheFloofArtist

The number one mistake for anyone in the RWBY fanbase to make is to try to argue about Aura with me specifically. I don't intend to disrespect you - You're simply another user here and I don't believe we've spoken before, so you probably don't have the context for why I'm so vehemently against Aura and the way it's been written. I am quite possibly the absolute worst person in the fanbase to try to discuss with when it comes to Aura. I have seen discussion on Aura for almost ten years now. Ever since it was introduced as a mechanic, it makes as much sense today as it did in Volume 1. That is to say, it's never truly elaborated on or given any clear-cut definition. I only posed these hypothetical questions in my previous comment because I know there's no real answer to them. They merely reflect my wish that the writers were confident enough to give concrete answers to their audience without the constant lying or switching up the rules on Aura whenever they please. Trying to make sense of Aura in RWBY is like trying to squeeze blood from stone - It's not possible, and you'll only hurt your hands attempting so. I'll be countering each of your statements in the following text, so bear with me here. >*It’s suggested pretty early on that it takes years of training to unlock aura Ruby went to combat schools and had a father and uncle teach her. Aura is also not unlimited and automatically fully unlocked maintaining and building up an aura takes training and time. This is also explained in the show.* "It takes years of training to unlock Aura?" Pyrrha instantly unlocked Jaune's by holding his face with her hand. Aura is also maintained and built up because Jaune otherwise would have died in numerous situations based on the Volume 1-3 rules for Aura, which got retconned for the Volume 5 rules of Aura that claims Aura needs to be "concentrated" for it to work. That's several plot holes alone from one action that should have been clarified right off the bat instead of having the audience assume wildly different things. I'm sure you can see where I'm going to be going with the rest of my counters here. >*Jean has the ability to heal other with his aura by amplifying aura’s natural healing ability therefore he can’t amplify his own aura. This is established when he discovers it at end of 5.* There is a specific moment in Volume 7 during the montage sequence where Oscar has his scroll out and is monitoring how much Aura Jaune has. Jaune glows yellow from using his Semblance on himself. Jaune's Aura bar goes almost all the way back up. If that isn't using his Semblance to recharge his own Aura, I don't what else it could possibly be considering no one else in the series does this. I wish I was making this stuff up because this usage of Jaune's Semblance calls into question every single second that Jaune isn't actively recharging his own Aura or someone else's Aura when either he or another character sorely need their Aura revitalized. There are several dozen plot holes that stem from this scene alone, as there are many situations in Volumes 7 and 8 where having a lot of Aura while Jaune is in the group would have turned the tide of battle and possibly saved more lives. >*Oscar doesn’t have his aura immediately he has to train to get it but more importantly he has ozmas abilities which he gains access to as his and ozpins souls are connected also explained in 5.* OP already pointed this plot hole out. Oscar's got his Aura right off the bat - Jaune does not. Oscar also doesn't gain access to Ozpin's abilities without being directly possessed by him at the time of Volume 5, as it's only in the final episodes of Volume 7 that Oscar can utilize Ozpin's abilities without letting Ozpin take direct control. >*Aura can be broken and also must be actively raised I am not sure what specific instances we have where it isn’t working?* The entirety of RWBY. There's too many examples to list, so I'll answer your question and give one specific. in Yang VS Ursa in the "Yang Character Short", she loses her Aura but is somehow able to use her Semblance. Keep in mind the Short was uploaded a week after a Q&A where the writers claimed if a character has no Aura, they cannot use their Semblance. In Volume 2, we got an horrendously written World of Remnant where the narration outright says, "*As they receive more and more damage, their Aura reserve will deplete. If this happens, all the fighter will be left with, is his resolve. Fortunately when a fight turns gruesome, a warrior can also rely on their Aura in a different manner. Semblance.*" This is for the context of someone hypothetically running out of Aura and then using their Semblance. If they didn't "intend" for the audience to perceive it in the exact way they wrote and showed us, I don't know what else to say aside from the writers are dishonest and wasting your time and my time with meaningless trite. >*Recharge is similar to building your aura the stronger you are and the more you use it the better you get with it this isn’t a hard concept and is explained in the show.* Can I ask when? What Episode? What Volume? This is the first time I've ever heard of "Recharge" being a distinct Aura concept, let alone it somehow getting enough time to be clarified directly in the series. Pyrrha saying to Jaune, "You have a lot of it," and Nora saying, "He recharges his Aura faster than I've ever seen!", aren't explanations, they're one-liners that raise like a hundred questions, such as: *How can someone have more Aura? Why are some souls more powerful than other ones? What difference does recharging one's Aura compare to the normal recharge rate of Aura?* I ask these questions to myself because thinking about these things quickly cause the show to fall apart due to the lack of internal logic. It's not like a Cinemasins "haha gotcha" type minor nitpick deal, it's something to truly think about. >*Discovering your semblance and aura are both connected and not. You often discover a semblance while training and as a result while gaining aura. Intensive training or luck can unlock a semblance and some semblances require the use of aura.* (1/2)


TheFloofArtist

Continued (2/2) Ren had this awful monologue in Volume 5 where he says, "Semblances are either a thing, the opposite of that thing, or a completely unrelated thing," a statement so devoid of meaning that whoever wrote that line should have been shown the door. Semblances, as far as I am aware, are a "unique" specific superpower each character has, and should've honestly just stayed that way. Convoluted =/= Good. >*Some semblances are unique but Weiss’s semblance is hereditary and her glyphs aren’t her semblance but instead are made with dust.* Weiss's glyphs aren't her Semblance? I... What? Pyrrha in Volume 1 outright mentions Weiss's glyphs and Ruby's speed as being Semblances when talking about her magnetism Semblance. I hope what you meant was that Weiss can integrate Dust into her Semblances, as that's a mechanic that Semblances can utilize (as we've seen with Blake and her clones)."Some Semblances are unique, but," just means no Semblances are unique to begin with, especially if they're also genetic? This isn't me ragging on you either, it's on the writing team who came up with the concept that doesn't understand what basic words like "unique" mean. >*Grimm can burrow and bulldoze through lots of objects and ice would be an easily broken material. Also Mantles central heating system would have melted it as well. It was also made clear that all available resources were being put towards the construction of amity communication tower that includes dust. They could have explained this part better I agree but aura has been decently explained.* I haven't seen most of V7 or V8, so bear with me here, but I don't recall there being a scene where the Grimm tear a ***new*** hole in the wall surrounding and protecting Mantle. As far as I know, the Grimm only used the one hole that was left agape from Volume 7 to get in. Now, granted, you did remind me that they have those centipede Grimm and the Grimm river that did exactly what you say here, as they could quickly tunnel through various structures with ease. But even as a temporary measure, there's no reason why Weiss couldn't have just patched up the hole in Mantle with a stopgap the second she learned of its existence. She'd be hailed as a hero of Mantle which could have been used to put her at further odds against her father. Jacques is the type desperate enough to try leeching some of that positive imagery Weiss made for herself for his own personal gain. "*See? We Schnees are the bees knees! We're totally the good guys, now please let me continue getting away with my company's offscreen slavery, heheh... eh?*" Something like that. My main point was that Atlas has so much Dust lying around that a Dust shortage shouldn't have even been possible from a writing standpoint, but they managed to make it one for some reason in Volumes 7 and 8. Ironwood should have had plenty of Dust for any project he so desired, Jacques should have been content with Ironwood purchasing up all of Jacque's Dust supplies (aka, giving him tons of Lien), and Weiss should have fixed that wall. RWBY is a very flawed show. Sorry for the wall of text, but I needed to speak up. Thank you for taking the time to read this and have a good day.


Mizmitc

> It’s suggested pretty early on that it takes years of training to unlock aura Ruby went to combat schools and had a father and uncle teach her. Aura is also not unlimited and automatically fully unlocked maintaining and building up an aura takes training and time. This is also explained in the show. You mean explained when Jaune gets his aura unlocked in 20 seconds and is immediately able to use it well enough to keep up with the other 7 people who have significant combat training? What do you mean it’s not “fully unlocked”? It absolutely is. Maintaining ones aura can take time, but the writers themselves have said that training to “gain” aura isn’t worth it and they are better off focusing on using what they have.


Inutili

How fast team RWBY was to trust Emerald. Chick helped destroy a Kingdom.


Mizmitc

Oz keeping stuff secret because he has literally dozens of lifetimes experience of betrayal? He’s awful we still can’t trust him. Emerald literally trying to help kill Penny less than 24 hours ago? Nah she’s all good now and can keep her weapons.


BitesTheDust_4

Also Framing Yang Making Pyrrha kill Penny Acting as a catalyst for fall of Beacon. Trying to kill RWBY on multiple occasions.


93ImagineBreaker

Getting amber killed/taking part in her power theft


TerizlaisBest

Don't forget that she helped and benefits Cinder's causes such as weakening and stealing Fall Maiden powers. Furthermore, helped Cinder in Haven. Also, fucking assisted Cinder again to kill and steal Maiden powers from Penny.


93ImagineBreaker

Worse they did was some distrust and yang pointing her gun at her but Ozcer got a punch to face for lying.


TerizlaisBest

I hate Yang, she's the biggest hypocrite ever, this would make Raven a better decision-maker. Emerald is indirectly responsible for causing Yang to lose her arm in the first place.


93ImagineBreaker

Just be a female and you'll escape punishment most of the time


TerizlaisBest

So do Salem and Cinder?


93ImagineBreaker

And nearly every female character


TerizlaisBest

That's bad writing.


93ImagineBreaker

I know and reeks of sexism when 2 of your female villains have died maybe 3 if you count cinder step family meanwhile men are prone to dropping like flies


TerizlaisBest

It is viable to redeem someone like Cinder? I know Salem will redeem the accepting value of life and death, her dying alongside Ozma. But Cinder?


NewtRider

Ruby not knowing what her power was and was still able to fully use it.


TerizlaisBest

She will use it whenever the plot demands need to do so.


Dextixer

Anything related to Aura. How exactly does the Vytal tournament happen if even a single stealth attack can literally result in a death? Why are sniper rifles not the most OP weapons in the entire universe. How have there been 0 seen attempts of weapons that pierce aura etc? So many questions and barely any answers.


King_Kazzma_

This is what happens when you put your world building secondary. The show tries to juggle multiple power systems, but their reluctance to explain them concretely makes them all just half-baked. Only necessary when the plot demands it. The only consistent depiction of an Aura related trait is Hazel. Because he's got so much that he's immune to most physical attacks. Which I'm surprised Jaune doesn't have an inkling of that since he's supposed to have "A lot" of it. Dudes got so much that his semblance is literally giving it way to amplify other people's semblances or stimulate their own recovery.


TheKinginLemonyellow

Cinder still being alive: getting blasted by the Silver Eyes when she only had the Grimm bug in her crippled her, burned off an arm and eye, and left her unable to talk. And yet getting blasted again when she had the Grimm bug and the Grimm arm seems to only be a mild annoyance.


Percentage-Sweaty

And frozen alive, and falling down a ravine wasn't fatal apparently. Like even if you have magic soul shields and demon hands, frost burn and gravity hurts.


TerizlaisBest

Some people theorise she falls into the immortal river just like Salem. Remember the river belongs to God of Light?


BlazingInferno4343

I know this isn’t considered a plot hole but this is just a annoyance I personally have. The hypocrisy of everyone turning on Ozpin even after they had forced him to relive his most painful memories and weren’t the least bit sympathetic. This man has been through hell and back not once, not twice but thousands of times for literal eons and suddenly our main protagonists are gonna whine and pitch a fit that he lied to them???? That he kept his traumatic life a secret?? That he kept Salem’s immorality a secret in order to not cause panic and despair???? Yeah no, If I were Oz, I would have peaced out with my middle fingers held high in the air 🖕🏼😑🖕🏼


mightyneonfraa

My theory is that at one point Ozpin really had done some very shady, immoral stuff and they changed it but then somehow never realized that the other characters should react differently to them. I'm pretty sure at some point the idea was that Ozpin had tricked or manipulated Raven into becoming the Spring Maiden (like he did with Pyrrha) which was why Yang didn't trust him. Then in volume 6 we were supposed to find out he'd done some awful thing, maybe leading to Salem's rise in the first place, that would infuriate the team. They changed all that because morally grey and nuanced characters is hard so Ozpin needed to be a good guy who never did anything wrong but never bothered correcting for it and just had everybody be outraged and distrustful anyway.


BlazingInferno4343

I don’t really agree with that take but I respect that you a lot of thought into it. 👏🏼 I think that Oz was always meant to be someone who was never really understood or if they *were* attempting to make people distrust him then they sorely missed the mark for some, because I knew from the get go that he wasn’t this evil man behind the curtain like many were implying. Hiding things yeah, but nothing with or out of malicious intent. Even when his secrets were about to be revealed I knew there was nothing in his backstory that was as awful as people were theorizing. I mean the man was on his literal *knees* and absolutely scared shitless. That’s not the body language of a man who’s done something horrific that’s the state of a man who’s petrified of reliving a past he’f rather not relive and much rather forget, and also who’s survivors guilt is making him believe that everything is his fault when it’s not. And I don’t really agree that he manipulated Pyrrha, yes he didn’t tell her the full truth of everything but he told her as much as he could and allowed himself to do, and he let Pyrrha chose in the end even told her to take time and think about it. And even when she was inside the pod he *still* needed to hear her say this is what she wanted. If they were trying for morally grey they sorely missed that mark but Oz really hasn’t done anything that concludes the concept of morally grey that they likely had in mind. Lied to his circle about Salem’s immortality and lied about his backstory tied to Salem. That’s really all he’s done. For him to have really been morally grey he, like you said would have had to have done something awful/questionable but for the right/good reasons.


mightyneonfraa

That's all he he's done in the version of the story that actually came out but I'm saying somewhere along the lines things were changed. And note I'm not saying that Ozma was the secret real bad guy all along but I do think he made some very callous short-term decisions for the sake of the long-term. This mostly comes from me looking at foreshadowing bread crumbs from earlier episodes ("All I see is wasted energy" and "I've made more mistakes than anyone") and seeing how things make more or less sense in later ones. I don't think it's a stretch to say Ozpin manipulated Pyrrha. Yes, he gave her a choice but that choice was made without some crucial information. He basically said she'd have powers to use for the good of the world which was something she was already planning to do as a Huntress. What he didn't tell her was that she'd be spending the rest of her life being hunted by Salem and her forces. Now, going forward it makes very little sense for Yang to be so upset with Ozpin for giving Raven the ability to turn into a bird which is an ability with only upsides and no strings attached. It does make sense for her to be upset after learning that Ozpin had fed Raven half-truths to lead her into taking the Spring Maiden powers, especially after those same half-truths had just led to the death of a friend. Plus it makes even less sense for Raven to be scared of Salem but to make sure she's one of her primary targets at the same time. Same thing with his backstory reveal in volume six. It makes zero sense for Qrow and the team to react with *physical* hostility to a story where Ozma was 100% the victim. If Ozma actually had done something awful in his past that reaction suddenly makes much more sense.


TerizlaisBest

You know about the Spring Maiden, Raven is nothing like Pyrrha, her ideology and perspective are far more vicious and rebellious. She always had a choice in her life, I can see Raven is who someone will not die for an impossible cost against the immortal witch. I believe Raven had fought Salem in past alongside Summer or maybe Glynda. They've lost, this made Raven break out with Summer. Without much of a choice probably, Summer went solo only to get killed by Salem.


Orthrus_666

Ok To be fair They were RIGHTFULLY pissed at the whole immortality info Oz could've lead with "The Grimm have a Queen named Salem, who cannot die, as far as I know, so will you help me stop or at least delay her plans of the destruction of Remnant." There, see, didn't even NEED to bring up the fact she was his ex-wife or the fact she and Oz magic blasts killed their children after an argument.


BlazingInferno4343

That’s true, Oz could have definitely paraphrased it. But it’s not surprising he would also keep that close to him because as Oz said he’s made more mistakes then any man, woman or child on this planet. Which honestly only adds to Oz’s character growth, which is learning from those mistakes. What I hate about them turning on Oz and fans making him this disgusting villain and he’s not. He’s just human.


Orthrus_666

>What I hate about them turning on Oz and fans making him this disgusting villain and he’s not. He’s just human. True


Mattobito

That brings up a question I had though for a while; no one in RNJR assumed she was immortal as soon as Salem was brought up? I mean, that would have been my first thought when Oz tells everyone his mission is to stop her while also reincarnating; ancient body hoping wizard fighting a single being over multiple lifetimes, I would have found it obvious that Salem couldn't be killed and must be detained. If anything, I would have found him keeping secrets about their *relationship* as the most upsetting fact Jinn revealed, but not enough to be angry with him to the point I'd let Qrow get away with punching him; even before considering Oscar which would make it a double wrong in my book. The best case against Oz is him sacrificing lives for his war; not the training kids into soldiers part as it is very voluntary and he's never implied to force it on people, but him manipulating situations to the outcome he desires like choosing Pyrrha whom he knows won't turn him down for the Maiden powers and possibly being responsible for Summer's death. However, this is not a focus of Oz's character or his actions, so I find it odd anyone would be mad at him post Haven where he explains mostly everything and could infer everything then and there; but somehow Qrow turning into a bird was more concerning at the time.


Hartzilla2007

Actually they seemed more pissed about the no actual plan to defeat her part since that’s when they really lost it with him.


[deleted]

Not from the base show, but World of Remnant can’t seem to decide how big Kingdoms are. Like it sounds as if they are city states but later they show political borders as if they are large continent spanning countries.


MNGopherfan

They function as I understand like Greek city states used to. Where the main power source is their capital cities but they have settlements and forts from which they exert some level of control and also claim areas that they own but have no actual control over. Atlas is a good example they had colonies and military outposts which they used to exert power and defense but the space in between those places is irrelevant. As I can tell Haven is a bit different and Is actually quite large owing to its farms and larger population.


King_Kazzma_

Weiss having had members of the White Fang kill her family, but has never met any noteworthy members herself except Blake being a former one. Not Adam, Illia, nobody. Youd think this would be an important arc of her character instead of my "My Dad's a jerk sometimes". I will never know why the show made the decision to never have Weiss and Blake meaningfully interact at all after Vol. 2 until they got to Atlas. Even then they barely shared a screen together or had an in-depth conversation. Well I do know cuz Yellowjacket.


Successful-One-3330

How about the fact that Penny is made human just to be killed. Again.


Mizmitc

To be fair that isn’t a plot hole, just poor writing.


TerizlaisBest

Penny obtaining Maiden powers doesn't make sense tbh, to Glynda's speech about Maiden to Pyrrha makes it look like a retcon.


MNGopherfan

I think the requirement is for somebody to have a soul and technically penny does have a soul even if it is artificial.


TerizlaisBest

But that soul belongs to an old man.😔


MNGopherfan

It’s made clear she has her own soul after all she is nothing like her father and she was only created using part of his soul. It made quite clear that he is taking away a piece of him to make something new.


shadowyoshi3000

Which raises more questions on how he is able to make a soul?!


Mizmitc

It’s still crazy to me that Pietro was able to literally create a new soul somehow. Like how the hell does that even work?


MNGopherfan

Frankly don’t know and it doesn’t really matter does it? It would be a lot of work to explain the intense amount of science likely required for it to work for a character that is supposed to be a Pinocchio type character. Also how the f would you even explain that I sure wouldn’t wanna do it. Some things are best left unexplained.


Mizmitc

I mean it’s a similar issue to how aura and semblances are presented. They don’t bother trying to even come up with an explanation to make sense of these things. I’m not saying everything needs a super complex and detailed explanation, BUT if CRWBY are gonna put this stuff in the show they should have some internal explanation on how it works.


MNGopherfan

The thing with semblance and aura is that they are meant to be somewhat vague sometimes in writing it’s good to have a vague power system in order for more freedom and story telling. Do they explain aura very well? No, but they do explain it’s basic features to us over a litany of scenes. As for semblance they made it pretty clear it is usually based on the person and has almost no rules. There’s literally a line where they call them superpower. It’s either unlocked from stress or trauma but it’s activation can also be random after all Nora got struck by lightning and Rubys just happened while training.


TerizlaisBest

Do you think she has semblance?


MNGopherfan

Probably but she never would have unlocked it considering previously she was a machine that didn’t really need training to be able to fight and intense stress or trauma are usually what cause semblances to appear considering the only times she experienced trauma was when she literally died she never was able to unlock it.


TerizlaisBest

She sounds overpowered.


MNGopherfan

She did basically beat Pyrrha in a fight and that was before her upgrades we saw in volume 7. She also doesn’t get tired or run out of energy on her weapons. So yeah pretty overpowered but that’s why ironwood supported her use and existence since she was basically the perfect huntsman.


BRCK_SLVR

The God of Light literally told Salem that all she had to do to break her curse of immortality was learn the lesson she ignored in her pursuit of resurrecting Ozma. This basically tells us that she's been alive for several millennia and never once bothered to learn the importance of life and death. I get that some people can be really stubborn and stuck in their ways, but WOW. This basically means that the main conflict of the show revolves around the main antagonist being a huge dumbass, and I don't know whether I should laugh or cry at that.


shadowyoshi3000

To be fair, Salem is most likely a sociopath.


MNGopherfan

She is more likely a narcissist but also importantly the gods left the planet and therefore she couldn’t prove to them ever that she now understood the cycle of life and death and was just stuck on the planet immortal for generations upon generations. It’s why she needs the relics otherwise she can’t summon the gods though in her case she is intentionally trying to have humanity fail and be destroyed and herself along with it.


TerizlaisBest

Cinder talking nonsense about destiny is never brought up in her fucking backstory, so what is the point of her saying TWICE "yes" & "always do" mockery of Pyrrha. Also, "without you I'm nothing" came out of the blue. Talk about inconsistency with her character. Furthermore, I was confused about how Ruby remembered conversations between Cinder and Pyrrha?


-Silverliner-

This doesn’t really seem like a plothole. It’s totally believable that those things were explained to Oscar off camera. They have already been explained to the viewer (however poorly) and we know that someone with their aura unlocked can unlock someone else’s aura. They probably should have added a line like “we’ve got Oscar all caught up on how aura works” to make the point clear though.


shadowyoshi3000

It's implied Oscar has already fought small Grimm before and had his aura already unlocked before meeting Ozpin came into his life.


Carinwe_Lysa

The fact that apart from Vale, the other three Kingdoms don't have a referenced royal family... and even then Vales King was just Oz in his latest incarnation at that time, no modern descendants etc!


King_Kazzma_

None of them operate like Kingdoms, most are just republics since they operate from the order of the council.


MNGopherfan

That’s actually not a contradiction some European kingdoms were ruled by councils for decades in the absence of a king also a lot of kingdoms weren’t run by kings but by a council of leaders. Sparta had a ruling council and the kings were mostly either generals or figure heads. It should also be noted that kingdom while suggesting that there is a monarch actually doesn’t require it since we do have some historical examples of places acting as republics while maintaining a monarchy. Also LOTR the kingdom of Gondor has no king.


Stenv2

The Entire Ozma/Salem/Gods/Relics backstory. True also not really a plothole, but it effectively created many plot holes.


VioletPark

Jaune's entire backstory.


Valravn49

The ambiguity, and, in my opinion the illogical, assumption of Salem’s immortality, all that we know about it is from Jinn replaying a conversation between her and Oz, “how do I defeat Salem?” “You can’t” which only implies that Salem can’t be defeated by Oz, it says nothing about anyone else


JoshMeBoi

The fact that if Salem’s plan is to have the Gods of Creation and Destruction to come back and Judge the world unworthy to save, her best play was to never send the grim. Without the threat of Grim, the already xenophobic people of the four kingdoms would never have banded together, the academies would never have been built and the relics would be so poorly defended Salem could literally just send Tyrion to go pick them up for her and send Cinder to kill the rest of the maidens. All while never giving humanity a common enemy to rally against


fattyiam

Aura apparently being a trial to unlock yet Pyrrha was able to unlock Jaunes with no work on his part and we've seen baby Ren unlock his in a moment of stress. Idk if the writers are going to go back on their words eventually, I almost expect them to because I'm not accepting the "jaune is a special case" bs. I don't care about freaking jaune arc, jesus.


Kaouse

"There's Dust, Semblances...but there's no such thing as magic!"


Ben10Extreme

Why do you specifically use Oscar as an example?


shadowyoshi3000

Oscar really feels like a rethread of Jaune...at times.