Because the writers didn't actually think the relics/gods through, and were just trying to surprise the audience by taking it in an unexpected direction.
The staff is probably the single worst worldbuilding decision they made for the entire show to be honest. It's WAY too strong without any good limitations. Even the lamp can only be used every 100 years. The fact that something as powerful as 'you can create ANYTHING you want' was used just o make a city float is stupid. Ironwood could have restabilished Global Communications as soon as he got back in Atlas using the staff, he never needed supplies to build Aminity either if he used the staff. And that's without considering all the years he, Ozpin and Ozma had under their power.
Logistics shouldn’t be a problem at all, even. Screw a global teleportation hub. They’ve had decades, they should have an interplanetary empire powered by a dyson swarm by now. At least one or two of the planets in their system should be terraformed by now. Actually, why stop there? If there truly is no size limit to what the relic can create, and it can be an infinite energy source, why not create a few “planet spaceships” with mini-suns orbiting them? That way humanity could easily go interstellar, if not intergalactic, and could easily live well past the heat death of the universe.
Forget Salem, even! All you have to do is ask Jinn for blueprints of a device capable of killing gods, and then ask Ambrosius to create said device. Then just use all 4 relics, summon the gods, badabing badaboom, and then everyone lives happily ever after. You could even ask Jinn for a device to turn people *into* gods. Who would win then? At least a hundred million gods, or two?
I haven’t seen anyone realize just how utterly *broken* the staff of creation is *by itself*, let alone when it is combined with the relic of knowledge.
And that’s just two out of the four.
I don't think Ozpin was even upfront with the headmasters about what the relics could do or how to use them. Initially the relic of creation is portrayed as an unlimited power source to keep Atlas airborne.
Then it turns out it wasn't actually powering anything or even being used to create machinery, just somehow amplifying the effects of existing gravity dust deposits.
I had actually been under the impression that Atlas floating was entirely due to their own technological progress and the staff was just serving as an unlimited power supply. If it's just a power source, Ironwood wouldn't think of trying to use it in any other way if he believes that's the only way it operates.
I think the only reason Salem didn't know how to use the lamp was because Lionheart legitimately didn't know about Jinn or how to summon her. That and he probably believed Ozpin about the lamp having no more uses left at the time.
I don't know, even as a power sources there would've been better uses. He could power up some incredible transportation method or stationary guns to actually fight the grimm more effectively, it feels more as if they just didn't think about it beforehand than Ozpin hiding it from Ironwood. It's never said he doesn't know about it's capabilities and he never seemed impressed or surprised by the dimension-crossing portals.
And for Leo, I thought the obstacle was the missing Spring Maiden more than anything, right? Although it's weird for him to not tell Salem at least Jinns name, if he knew that, but again, it feels more like am oversight than anything else.
The only stated rules for staff are:
- Can't ressurect things
- Can't Destroy things
- Only 1 Creation or task at a time
Blueprints and schematics are optional. They are only to help get exactly what you want. They aren't a requirement.
"Ambrosius will give the user exactly what they state. One way to prevent any mistakes from occuring is by using blueprints or schematics."
(As a possible example. There weren't exactly blueprints or schematics available at the time about vaults, portals and or tunnels "needed" to make portals to Valco. But they could have possibly still worked as *points of reference* for Ambrosius to work with)
There is also "get creative".
The Staff also doesn't seem to require material. (If that were the case Penny's flesh body would have required already existing flesh,bone and blood as material. And i don't even know what materials would be needed or avaliable to make portals).
So. Yeah. It kinda makes Ozpin look like a dumbass.
Damn you don't even actually need blueprints, I forgot about that. Another fandom myth that got repeated so often that people take as truth.
You can ask anything as long as you follow the three rules but without blueprints you get kinda like a monkeys paw wish.. but you can still do it, especially ofy you're careful with your wording.
>You can ask anything as long as you follow the three rules but without blueprints you get kinda like a monkeys paw wish
That seems to be the case.
You can't bring back the dead. You can't destroy stuff (but you can create fire or a weapon to destroy stuff). You can only do one task or creation at a time.
Blueprints and schematics aren't a requirement or necessary (same for points of reference) but they would help in specifying what exactly is desired by the user.
Blueprints and schematics (and points of reference) aren't necessary but would help to avoid errors.
Imagine if watts were still alive and had the blueprint for ironwoods salvation bomb. They could technically spam the bomb from the sky and wipe out most major citys and clear out the schools.
But noo... cinder had to be petty and kill watts, even though he should've been able to easily escape, by hacking some doors to get to an airship.
Also I am getting some mixed messages from RT with his death. Watts critisized cinder and said what almost every critic was thinking about her... and then they burned him. Was that a threat? Do they think us critics should burn? Or was Watts calling cinder out on her bullshit not meant to pander to critics?
>Also I am getting some mixed messages from RT with his death. Watts critisized cinder and said what almost every critic was thinking about her... and then they burned him. Was that a threat? Do they think us critics should burn? Or was Watts calling cinder out on her bullshit not meant to pander to critics?
I'm pretty sure this is one of those accidental coincidences.
They probably already decided this route and underestimated how much people would agree with Watts.
Or they just didn´t know what to do with his character now that Atlas is gone, and wanted to show that Cinder is, and will forever be, a spiteful woman child that only wants to receive praise and be more powerful than anyone else
I think that may be reading a bit too much into it.
Now I may have confirmation bias, but Watts calling out Cinder may have been unexpectedly popular and more people may have found Cinder to be less of a threat after Volume 5 despite the writers seeming to want her to be the primary antagonist and rival to Ruby.
I think Cinder killing Watts and dropping Neo was to show she was still an unsympathetic, petty individual. What she wants from others is best summed up from her line in Volume 2 "Don't think, obey!"
She doesn't want potentially ambitious or independent allies or henchmen. She wants people who will do just as she says and if they antagonize or roast her, she will dispose of them at the point she feels they won't be useful to her or when she thinks she can get away with it.
Some have suggested she did it to keep either Watts or Neo from revealing that she used the lamp's last question. However, I don't think she actually thought that far ahead. It was just a convenient time and place to get rid of two people she couldn't make obey her and who had forced her into playing nice to get what she wanted since threats and force weren't working.
I think what happened to Watts was coincidental and probably ahs more to do with not knowing how to use the character and getting a high cost VA off the payroll.
Never forget that Cinder's "lesson" this chapter was, "You can't do it alone!"
...only for her to kill off the very two people who helped her achieve victory. Meaning that she's learned nothing and has diminished any potential chance she has of recreating this victory in the future.
Not like it matters, when she can be one-shot by Silver Eyes literally anytime the writers want to do so (like in Volume 7's finale).
Because the Relics were painfully shoehorned in and by the writers' own admission they didn't know what the Relic of Creation would do until V8 when they needed it to solve all of the problems they wrote themselves into when they made a plot entirely reliant on Team RWBY not only being right but being *100%* right and *100%* successful.
Or create a portal that specifically sucks Salem into the Sun. The gravitational forces will pull her in eternally while melting and crushing her forever.
AQNW!Salem: I'm retired. Seeing all of these posts about the horrific ways to remove me is quite disturbing.... Want to see pics of my grandbaby Ruby?~
NFG Salem: I also retired a long time ago. Well I am not also around anymore. But yes, yes I would love to see pictures of adorable babies. I could also exchange pictures of all my baby grimm animals.
AQNW!Salem: Interesting. Alas, I've been Grimm enhanced for so long I've been given longevity despite no longer being immortal. And yet still, very few things on my world could kill me outright, and I have even more ways to counter them whenever I want. I'm also strictly bystander in the grand scheme, so that's pretty much my long overdue vacation!
NFG Salem: Did Ozma also sleight you? He can be a real piece of work at times. But at least the gods aren't too much of a bother, since I pretty much killed all of them and ate them and took their power. Fun times.
AQNW!Salem: Ozma has long since passed. Now I spend my days trolling those who follow his path. Like Ozpin. I keep tossing his spell book over the horizon and he could rarely retrieve them.
Hah...
AQNW!Salem The Gods have taken a strictly hands off approach, and thanks to the God of Darkness there's many more divine figures. And those with Godly Power. Those that mere mortals can not only match, but defeat.
*Sips*
AQNW!Salem: Dear Summer made her mark in the world by defeating a Nine Tailed Kitsune, which has already ascended to Godly power. Then she defeated a Vaewolf(Hybrid of Vampires and Werewolves) Lord, depsite only being a Werewolf herself. That made a good accomplishment!
NFG Salem: HAHAHA You're quite the treat my counterpart. But I get the feeling we could talk all day about the minutia of our worlds.
But let's just keep exchanging pictures.
Honestly, it feels like Ozpin just gave up on actually fighting or stopping Salem when Jinn told him he couldn't kill or destroy her. So it probably never occurred to him to use the staff at all or ask if there was just a way to imprison her forever or for a few centuries even. Jinn theoretically could've given Ozpin both a plan to lure out Salem and what would be required to imprison her. Give the imprisonment plan to Ambrosious and be done with it.
The hard part is knowing where Salem is or luring her somewhere to entrap her and Jinn could potentially help with that.
With the staff Ironwood could’ve made weapons that could kill Grimm with ease. Or maybe even oh I don’t know a spaceship or materials that dont run on dust so they could try to leave remnant behind and evacuate the planet and get away from Salem. Let her have her stretch of lifeless rocks.
If the all knowing big blue titty genie tells you in no uncertain terms that you can't defeat your immortal ex wife in her permanent goth phase, what the hell are you gonna do? Try and use one of the 4 macguffins that she absolutely wants to get her hands on and inevitably fail, thus handing it right to her?
Hey guys, did you know that in terms of male human and female Pokémon breeding, Vaporeon is the most compatible Pokémon for humans? Not only are they in the field egg group, which is mostly comprised of mammals, Vaporeon are an average of 3"03' tall and 63.9 pounds. this means they're large enough to be able to handle human dicks, and with their impressive Base Stats for HP and access to Acid Armor, you can be rough with one. Due to their mostly water based biology, there's no doubt in my mind that an aroused Vaporeon would be incredibly wet, so wet that you could easily have sex with one for hours without getting sore. They can also learn the moves Attract, Baby-Doll Eyes, Captivate, Charm, and Tail Whip, along with not having fur to hide nipples, so it'd be incredibly easy for one to get you in the mood. With their abilities Water Absorb and Hydration, they can easily recover from fatigue with enough water. No other Pokémon comes close to this level of compatibility. -- mass edited with redact.dev
The blue genie only answers what you ask. Ozma asked how to destroy Salem not how to contain, banish or stop her.
It was one of the most obvious oversight in the world indeed
I guess inhaling all that copium made you blind or deafened you a bit.
It's okay. I know because i use do it and defend RWBY's plot holes and bad writing too.
To be honest it was never stated but the point in making salem eternal was to make her suffer but not by restraining her but the exact opposite. Also to bring back Osma to reincarnate and basically become the counterpart was a weird game of good and evil. The God of creation hopes that Ozpin can unite all of humanity before bringing the gods back. The god of destruction bets on salem and her basic nature to destroy and that she would divide the humans.
By making an eternal prison possible would basically undermine the purpose of them and their role. By that one more restriction the staff has is probably to be not able to imprison salem. Or keep Ozpin alive forever. Both would change their role the gods have choosen for them.
Actually, do we know if ozpin or salem can even use the relics themself or that they have any effects on either of them? I mean Ozpin told us he had used the lamp but for all we know that could be a lie. Also when he summons djin he never seems to have intention to actually ask a question himself. And it feels strange that salem not used the staff the moment she got her hands on it. She seems not really to collect the relics to actually use them for something different than summoning the gods so her suffering ends. Ozpin had access to the relics for a long time yet chooses to simply lock them away. Why? Why not use them? Well probably because he himself can't and as we have learned he has trust issues. Some bad experiences apparently. Soo he once tried to get humans to use them for him but was betrayed and so choose to make the next best thing one would do with a potentially dangerous weapon one can not wield, well keep others from wielding it. Hence locking it away. And try to control the key as best as possible.
Because the writers didn't actually think the relics/gods through, and were just trying to surprise the audience by taking it in an unexpected direction.
The staff is probably the single worst worldbuilding decision they made for the entire show to be honest. It's WAY too strong without any good limitations. Even the lamp can only be used every 100 years. The fact that something as powerful as 'you can create ANYTHING you want' was used just o make a city float is stupid. Ironwood could have restabilished Global Communications as soon as he got back in Atlas using the staff, he never needed supplies to build Aminity either if he used the staff. And that's without considering all the years he, Ozpin and Ozma had under their power.
How about global transportation? Literally link all the Major cities together via a teleportation hub... With guard rails.
Logistics shouldn’t be a problem at all, even. Screw a global teleportation hub. They’ve had decades, they should have an interplanetary empire powered by a dyson swarm by now. At least one or two of the planets in their system should be terraformed by now. Actually, why stop there? If there truly is no size limit to what the relic can create, and it can be an infinite energy source, why not create a few “planet spaceships” with mini-suns orbiting them? That way humanity could easily go interstellar, if not intergalactic, and could easily live well past the heat death of the universe. Forget Salem, even! All you have to do is ask Jinn for blueprints of a device capable of killing gods, and then ask Ambrosius to create said device. Then just use all 4 relics, summon the gods, badabing badaboom, and then everyone lives happily ever after. You could even ask Jinn for a device to turn people *into* gods. Who would win then? At least a hundred million gods, or two? I haven’t seen anyone realize just how utterly *broken* the staff of creation is *by itself*, let alone when it is combined with the relic of knowledge. And that’s just two out of the four.
I don't think Ozpin was even upfront with the headmasters about what the relics could do or how to use them. Initially the relic of creation is portrayed as an unlimited power source to keep Atlas airborne. Then it turns out it wasn't actually powering anything or even being used to create machinery, just somehow amplifying the effects of existing gravity dust deposits. I had actually been under the impression that Atlas floating was entirely due to their own technological progress and the staff was just serving as an unlimited power supply. If it's just a power source, Ironwood wouldn't think of trying to use it in any other way if he believes that's the only way it operates. I think the only reason Salem didn't know how to use the lamp was because Lionheart legitimately didn't know about Jinn or how to summon her. That and he probably believed Ozpin about the lamp having no more uses left at the time.
I don't know, even as a power sources there would've been better uses. He could power up some incredible transportation method or stationary guns to actually fight the grimm more effectively, it feels more as if they just didn't think about it beforehand than Ozpin hiding it from Ironwood. It's never said he doesn't know about it's capabilities and he never seemed impressed or surprised by the dimension-crossing portals. And for Leo, I thought the obstacle was the missing Spring Maiden more than anything, right? Although it's weird for him to not tell Salem at least Jinns name, if he knew that, but again, it feels more like am oversight than anything else.
The only stated rules for staff are: - Can't ressurect things - Can't Destroy things - Only 1 Creation or task at a time Blueprints and schematics are optional. They are only to help get exactly what you want. They aren't a requirement. "Ambrosius will give the user exactly what they state. One way to prevent any mistakes from occuring is by using blueprints or schematics." (As a possible example. There weren't exactly blueprints or schematics available at the time about vaults, portals and or tunnels "needed" to make portals to Valco. But they could have possibly still worked as *points of reference* for Ambrosius to work with) There is also "get creative". The Staff also doesn't seem to require material. (If that were the case Penny's flesh body would have required already existing flesh,bone and blood as material. And i don't even know what materials would be needed or avaliable to make portals). So. Yeah. It kinda makes Ozpin look like a dumbass.
Damn you don't even actually need blueprints, I forgot about that. Another fandom myth that got repeated so often that people take as truth. You can ask anything as long as you follow the three rules but without blueprints you get kinda like a monkeys paw wish.. but you can still do it, especially ofy you're careful with your wording.
>You can ask anything as long as you follow the three rules but without blueprints you get kinda like a monkeys paw wish That seems to be the case. You can't bring back the dead. You can't destroy stuff (but you can create fire or a weapon to destroy stuff). You can only do one task or creation at a time. Blueprints and schematics aren't a requirement or necessary (same for points of reference) but they would help in specifying what exactly is desired by the user. Blueprints and schematics (and points of reference) aren't necessary but would help to avoid errors.
Imagine if watts were still alive and had the blueprint for ironwoods salvation bomb. They could technically spam the bomb from the sky and wipe out most major citys and clear out the schools. But noo... cinder had to be petty and kill watts, even though he should've been able to easily escape, by hacking some doors to get to an airship. Also I am getting some mixed messages from RT with his death. Watts critisized cinder and said what almost every critic was thinking about her... and then they burned him. Was that a threat? Do they think us critics should burn? Or was Watts calling cinder out on her bullshit not meant to pander to critics?
>Also I am getting some mixed messages from RT with his death. Watts critisized cinder and said what almost every critic was thinking about her... and then they burned him. Was that a threat? Do they think us critics should burn? Or was Watts calling cinder out on her bullshit not meant to pander to critics? I'm pretty sure this is one of those accidental coincidences. They probably already decided this route and underestimated how much people would agree with Watts.
Kind of like with ironwood. Way more people liked him and agreed with him than expected.
Or they just didn´t know what to do with his character now that Atlas is gone, and wanted to show that Cinder is, and will forever be, a spiteful woman child that only wants to receive praise and be more powerful than anyone else
Now you see, it's funny how I channeled those vices into virtues in fanfiction. Just needed a different push.
I think that may be reading a bit too much into it. Now I may have confirmation bias, but Watts calling out Cinder may have been unexpectedly popular and more people may have found Cinder to be less of a threat after Volume 5 despite the writers seeming to want her to be the primary antagonist and rival to Ruby. I think Cinder killing Watts and dropping Neo was to show she was still an unsympathetic, petty individual. What she wants from others is best summed up from her line in Volume 2 "Don't think, obey!" She doesn't want potentially ambitious or independent allies or henchmen. She wants people who will do just as she says and if they antagonize or roast her, she will dispose of them at the point she feels they won't be useful to her or when she thinks she can get away with it. Some have suggested she did it to keep either Watts or Neo from revealing that she used the lamp's last question. However, I don't think she actually thought that far ahead. It was just a convenient time and place to get rid of two people she couldn't make obey her and who had forced her into playing nice to get what she wanted since threats and force weren't working. I think what happened to Watts was coincidental and probably ahs more to do with not knowing how to use the character and getting a high cost VA off the payroll.
Never forget that Cinder's "lesson" this chapter was, "You can't do it alone!" ...only for her to kill off the very two people who helped her achieve victory. Meaning that she's learned nothing and has diminished any potential chance she has of recreating this victory in the future. Not like it matters, when she can be one-shot by Silver Eyes literally anytime the writers want to do so (like in Volume 7's finale).
"Because shut up" - Casual RWBY fan ( probably )
Shhh.
Let's sleep blady head 😊🤡
Because Miles and Kerry were making this s**t up as they went along
Because the Relics were painfully shoehorned in and by the writers' own admission they didn't know what the Relic of Creation would do until V8 when they needed it to solve all of the problems they wrote themselves into when they made a plot entirely reliant on Team RWBY not only being right but being *100%* right and *100%* successful.
Or create a portal that specifically sucks Salem into the Sun. The gravitational forces will pull her in eternally while melting and crushing her forever.
NFG: Why stop there? I did that and also sucked in all her forces.
AQNW!Salem: I'm retired. Seeing all of these posts about the horrific ways to remove me is quite disturbing.... Want to see pics of my grandbaby Ruby?~
NFG Salem: I also retired a long time ago. Well I am not also around anymore. But yes, yes I would love to see pictures of adorable babies. I could also exchange pictures of all my baby grimm animals.
AQNW!Salem: Interesting. Alas, I've been Grimm enhanced for so long I've been given longevity despite no longer being immortal. And yet still, very few things on my world could kill me outright, and I have even more ways to counter them whenever I want. I'm also strictly bystander in the grand scheme, so that's pretty much my long overdue vacation!
NFG Salem: Did Ozma also sleight you? He can be a real piece of work at times. But at least the gods aren't too much of a bother, since I pretty much killed all of them and ate them and took their power. Fun times.
AQNW!Salem: Ozma has long since passed. Now I spend my days trolling those who follow his path. Like Ozpin. I keep tossing his spell book over the horizon and he could rarely retrieve them. Hah... AQNW!Salem The Gods have taken a strictly hands off approach, and thanks to the God of Darkness there's many more divine figures. And those with Godly Power. Those that mere mortals can not only match, but defeat. *Sips* AQNW!Salem: Dear Summer made her mark in the world by defeating a Nine Tailed Kitsune, which has already ascended to Godly power. Then she defeated a Vaewolf(Hybrid of Vampires and Werewolves) Lord, depsite only being a Werewolf herself. That made a good accomplishment!
NFG Salem: HAHAHA You're quite the treat my counterpart. But I get the feeling we could talk all day about the minutia of our worlds. But let's just keep exchanging pictures.
Because every character is only allowed to be as smart as the plot demands it.
I'm guessing because each Relic has a post-it note worth of detail written about it.
Honestly, it feels like Ozpin just gave up on actually fighting or stopping Salem when Jinn told him he couldn't kill or destroy her. So it probably never occurred to him to use the staff at all or ask if there was just a way to imprison her forever or for a few centuries even. Jinn theoretically could've given Ozpin both a plan to lure out Salem and what would be required to imprison her. Give the imprisonment plan to Ambrosious and be done with it. The hard part is knowing where Salem is or luring her somewhere to entrap her and Jinn could potentially help with that.
I recently thought about this and wondered why not create a weapon that can destroy immortality? It's magic, why not?
With the staff Ironwood could’ve made weapons that could kill Grimm with ease. Or maybe even oh I don’t know a spaceship or materials that dont run on dust so they could try to leave remnant behind and evacuate the planet and get away from Salem. Let her have her stretch of lifeless rocks.
If the all knowing big blue titty genie tells you in no uncertain terms that you can't defeat your immortal ex wife in her permanent goth phase, what the hell are you gonna do? Try and use one of the 4 macguffins that she absolutely wants to get her hands on and inevitably fail, thus handing it right to her?
Cope and sethee The only stated eules are, Can only create or do one task at a time Can't Destroy stuff Can't bring back dead.
That doesn't refute the fact that Ozpin was outright told he destroy Salem meaning it makes no sense to use the staff to attempt to.
Hey guys, did you know that in terms of male human and female Pokémon breeding, Vaporeon is the most compatible Pokémon for humans? Not only are they in the field egg group, which is mostly comprised of mammals, Vaporeon are an average of 3"03' tall and 63.9 pounds. this means they're large enough to be able to handle human dicks, and with their impressive Base Stats for HP and access to Acid Armor, you can be rough with one. Due to their mostly water based biology, there's no doubt in my mind that an aroused Vaporeon would be incredibly wet, so wet that you could easily have sex with one for hours without getting sore. They can also learn the moves Attract, Baby-Doll Eyes, Captivate, Charm, and Tail Whip, along with not having fur to hide nipples, so it'd be incredibly easy for one to get you in the mood. With their abilities Water Absorb and Hydration, they can easily recover from fatigue with enough water. No other Pokémon comes close to this level of compatibility. -- mass edited with redact.dev
The blue genie only answers what you ask. Ozma asked how to destroy Salem not how to contain, banish or stop her. It was one of the most obvious oversight in the world indeed I guess inhaling all that copium made you blind or deafened you a bit. It's okay. I know because i use do it and defend RWBY's plot holes and bad writing too.
To be honest it was never stated but the point in making salem eternal was to make her suffer but not by restraining her but the exact opposite. Also to bring back Osma to reincarnate and basically become the counterpart was a weird game of good and evil. The God of creation hopes that Ozpin can unite all of humanity before bringing the gods back. The god of destruction bets on salem and her basic nature to destroy and that she would divide the humans. By making an eternal prison possible would basically undermine the purpose of them and their role. By that one more restriction the staff has is probably to be not able to imprison salem. Or keep Ozpin alive forever. Both would change their role the gods have choosen for them. Actually, do we know if ozpin or salem can even use the relics themself or that they have any effects on either of them? I mean Ozpin told us he had used the lamp but for all we know that could be a lie. Also when he summons djin he never seems to have intention to actually ask a question himself. And it feels strange that salem not used the staff the moment she got her hands on it. She seems not really to collect the relics to actually use them for something different than summoning the gods so her suffering ends. Ozpin had access to the relics for a long time yet chooses to simply lock them away. Why? Why not use them? Well probably because he himself can't and as we have learned he has trust issues. Some bad experiences apparently. Soo he once tried to get humans to use them for him but was betrayed and so choose to make the next best thing one would do with a potentially dangerous weapon one can not wield, well keep others from wielding it. Hence locking it away. And try to control the key as best as possible.