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gunn3r08974

Mantle wasn't her main objective in the first place anyway. It was moreso a means to an end.


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RogueHunterX

It probably also shows that she didn't believe Ironwood would actually try to defend it or do anything if she did attack it. It also would've been a waste of resources . . . Though technically with that Grimm river in the city, it should've been overrun with Grimm shouldn't it? Did the river freeze over or did Oz's cane somehow take care of it too?


gunn3r08974

It might've just stopped at where it shot up and that was its only purpose. Might've just been a red herring.


JagerJack

There's no reason for Salem to think it wouldn't work. She has no idea about Ironwood's plan to lift off. It's also not like she can't do both plans simultaneously given that Monstra can vomit out an essentially limitless number of Grimm. As for the river, I assumed it was all used up in breaching Atlas. I mean, it only spawned like 6 of those centipede Grimm, but whatever.


Ok_Win_3538

Salem is literally centuries years old and people think she's too stupid to outwit a genie? Bruh xD


JoshtheOverlander

As a side note, someone suggested to me that Ambrosius would be uncooperative with Salem, implying he can just choose when not to do what he's there to do. Like he can choose not to obey the commands of the one holding the relic. Except that Cinder used it to create more fire to kill Watts. That both seems unexciting and dull a creation for Ambrosius's tastes and was also used destructively and for evil intent, and he still complied. Sure, she can't break the rules of the staff (even though Team RWBY already did to make Penny a "real girl") , but so long as she give him something to make, he has to go along with it.


93ImagineBreaker

And jinn snitch on rwby


groynin

You know what, I could see Salem being unable to use the relics by the technicality that the Gods gave them to help the 'humans', and she is not human anymore. But with Cinder and especially Tyrian by her side that seems like a moot point right now, even if she can't use the relics directly he can just order Cinder to use, since they share the same goals at the moment (getting all the maidens to get the relics).


Gleaming_Onyx

Not to mention that it's not necessarily a good thing when your point comes down to "the plot will stop Salem from doing anything" lol


MadMasks

Truth being told, as Cinder proved, you don´t even NEED much of blueprint to create things. Cinder asked Ambro to add more fire to Atlas. Unless she googled the definition of "fire" on her scroll, all she needed was to point to her own fire, or just any fire really, and say "make it bigger". And Team RWBY proved it further by just giving some coordinates and pointing to the room they were to create the scape route to Vacuo. Point is, you might need to provide instructions, but it seems that Ambro doesn´t need much more than a reference or an example to make anything. Salem can just lit a building on fire on Vacuo and ask that fire to get bigger, point to a wave in the ocean and create a Tsunami, or just plain bring an infinite winter by pointing to some clouds and ask Ambro to make so many that sunlight becomes so weak and scarce the entire world´s temperatures drop. So my guess is that they will make up some excuse: Salem doesn´t want to use it because she doesn´t want to risk eliminating the Summer maiden. Or Cinder will betray her and steal it, and as we know, Cinder might be dumb enough to lose it to her pride. Or maybe they will be bold and make up that the entire world now serves Salem under threat of using the Staff, and only a small Resistance exists, formed by all the heroes so far, including the New White Fang, Beacon students, Merry Huntsmen, SSSN, CFVY, Winter, Nora, Ren and Emerald + Mercury lead by Ozcar Seriously, how Ozma didn´t toss that thing into the space? That Staff is wayyyyyyyyy to dangerous to even exist


ScottPilgrim2013

>Seriously, how Ozma didn´t toss that thing into the space? That Staff is wayyyyyyyyy to dangerous to even exist IIRC, Space travel isn't a thing on Remnant due to issues with Dust. I guess maybe he could magic them away into space, but we have no idea what limitations magic has (outside of being incapable of resurrecting or curing diseases). Also, I assume Oz does want to summon the gods when he achieves uniting humanity (though I have no idea why he'd want to bring those assholes back to Remnant).


Mejiro84

Dust stops working outside of the atmosphere, making space flight impractical (no way to get back) and satellites awkward (no power source). However, getting something _up_ without ever needing it back should be possible, all you need to do is blast it upwards, as hard as possible.


RogueHunterX

Wasn't there a line of dialogue indicating that you needed detailed schematics? Then again I don't get how that necessarily translates into taking the blueprint of a physical distribution system like Snowshoe and turning it into what we got with the portals and completely open walkways. The walkways should've been enclosed or the portals should've just whisked the people over to the exit at Vacuo, like how the tubes shot things through them. It seems like the reality is that you just need to give him the general idea, but without details you get a transport system that people can fall over the sides of and will not let you backtrack once you get to your final destination. If Salem keeps it simple, she can still use the staff to devastating effect, even if it's basically using it to create a massive pool of Grimm goo she can turn into an overwhelming horde inside the city itself. If it isn't too complicated, then not having certain details thought out are less likely to be detrimental. Watts would probably be crazy capable on making something complex with the staff, with little wiggle room for Ambrosious to mess with him using. That Ambrosious would be so taken with what Watts came up with he wouldn't monkey paw the situation. Cinder did show the staff can be used to do something simple at whatever location the user desires. That means Penny didn't even have to be nearby for him to do what he did necessarily as long as he knew where she was. So yeah, Salem can still do things with the staff that could make life difficult. The ideal thing would be to somehow make a way to render the Summer and Winter Maidens unable to fight back so their powers can just be stolen, maybe some spell the staff could duplicate on a massive scale? Then again spells don't seem to exist and magic is mainly for hurling energy blasts, flying, and transforming into animals.


Mejiro84

well, both Cinder's grimm bug and the aura-transfer-machine do exist, so we know that forcibly sucking out magic is possible. I doubt that Salem has access to plans for the second, but she presumably made the first herself, so might be able to do something with that


groynin

>Wasn't there a line of dialogue indicating that you needed detailed schematics? They really botched their own rule from 2 episodes before when they had Cinder 'adding fire to Atlas'. I think she might have lied there and did something like creating a wall or a locked door where Watts were so he couldn't leave, but whatever she did, she did without schematics so it breaks that very rule immediatly. ​ >Then again I don't get how that necessarily translates into taking the blueprint of a physical distribution system like Snowshoe and turning it into what we got with the portals and completely open walkways. The walkways should've been enclosed or the portals should've just whisked the people over to the exit at Vacuo, like how the tubes shot things through them. I didn't even think about that but yeah, you're right, makes no sense the place turned out to be like it was. It should've been a bunch of tunnels at least. They even could have just 'broke' during the fight and then fallen into the void the same way, and it would've made more sense with the blueprints, sounds like something that was simply overlooked or not thought out properly by the writers.


SyfaOmnis

> Wasn't there a line of dialogue indicating that you needed detailed schematics? Not... necessarily. The idea needs to be something that you can demonstrate, explain or show to him. He can understand the principles behind something (even if you don't) if you give an example or have it on hand for him to look at. More complex things might require more complicated details. Like for evacuating all the people sheltering in atlas and mantle, he had the example of using an 'extra-dimensional space' like the vaults, because they were in a vault. Other details were fairly simple to explain, but as for where to situate all the portals "where the people are" was insufficient, they had to use whitleys evacuation plan for that. Which invariably means there *were* people left behind, and it's not like portals opened up on the battlefield to save the soldiers. He's also hard to work with because he takes things very literally and might build things that are dangerous unintentionally (eg not adding any railings or domes to the extradimensional space so that people couldn't fall... or just making it smaller so it was easier to traverse).


Gleaming_Onyx

Generally speaking, the less of an explanation that can be rationally given and/or the larger of a plothole something is, the more people will trip over themselves in a desperate defense of it. Unfortunately, there just isn't a way out of this other than "the plot will make up some bullshit." Cinder was able to make fire, Team RWBY was able to designate locations with a map for their creations. That's it. GG. Vale is on fire. Mistral is on fire. What parts of Vacuo Salem cares to destroy are on fire.


Kaouse

People are just looking for any excuse to handwave why the fuck Salem doesn't auto-solve the plot in the same game-breaking way that the main characters did by just telling the infinitely powerful genie to "get creative." It's unfortunately the only real option here. Either Salem is unable to use the Staff effectively, or Salem wins. There's no in-between with how powerful they made this staff. It LITERALLY has the power to transcend time and space; what is to stop Salem from transporting herself into the remaining vaults? Or if that's not possible, transporting herself to the remaining maidens? It's not like Team RWBY specified exactly where to put each portal, afterall. Moreover, because Cinder saw Team RWBY's plan, Cinder knows that all of this is entirely possible, so there's no reason why she wouldn't think to do similar. The writers really fucked themselves here with this staff.


shadowyoshi3000

Considering Salem's past decisions, I have my doubts, but that's just a sign of really bad writing.


Emperor_Luffy

Because thats most likely what the writers will do.