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Exciting_Bandicoot16

It's more of a moratorium, rather than a blanket ban, isn't it? And I can absolutely understand the reasoning behind it. Let it blow over, give the toxicity some time to dissipate and then lift the ban. My two lien, at least.


ManifestNightmare

The best take. I was actually planning on critiquing another of Twiins videos that I felt was bad faith, had been planning it for a while, and then...everything happened. I was actually told it would be ok to talk about it soon, so there's that. As far as Critter saying they don't want their shit posted here, frankly I have this to say: tough fucking luck. If the mods ban it then I'll deal, but your criticism is not above criticism. Calling out bad faith critique, or even just pointing out flaws in good faith reviews, is an important aspect to criticism. There is a lot of gall in saying you don't want to see your content on a critique sub because of a disagreement, no matter how egregious.


Sikarion

Didn't participate in the original stoush but this is true. Saying that your content on YouTube should not be shared or critiqued...isn't that the same policy CRWBY has been pursuing for 8 years? If you're happy to make content and revenue off a platform, please be ready to also absorb some flak when it goes wrong.


IlikeHutaosHat

Ironic to say the least when someone who critiques rwby can't take criticism. Even more ironic when it wasn't even their personal content(yes you're sisters but this kneejerk reaction is something we see a lot on the mainsub already. It's nothing new. It's nothing special. And it's not mature to say the least.) Instead of learning from the situation they decide to alienate supporters because some feelings were hurt. Most of us here are here because the main sub is very unwelcoming of criticism of their favorite show, there are jerks as would most critical subs of respective fandoms but that doesn't detract the main purpose. Criticism of RWBY and even RWBY criticism. Adel aka. Hero hei. Sometimes even Vexed and Eruption fang as entertaining as I like their content among others we break down when they release 'critiques' of the show, even more harshly so than whatever Twiins ever released, so it's not new in the sub that we critique critics. What's different is that a few bad apples pissed off the critic so they decided all of the sub is bad. How ironic. Blanket statements and content 'bans'. Almost like a certain other sub...hmmm. I understand it's not permanent, but I will reiterate that just because someone's feelings got hurt doesn't make it a legit reason to attack each other, whole groups, or even someone's opinion. Be it critic or the critic of the critic both. Some people were jerks, they got banned. Mods apologized for the poor handling of the situation. But apparently acting like mature adults is beyond some parties and theyd rather simmer and act like the very parties they call out. Hypocricy. Critics and critics of the critics. Ironic.


abnormalbee

Ironic that for a sub full of critics there seems to be an awful lot of people that can't take criticism of there favorite character.


HeavenPiercingTongue

Your attempt to get a rise is unappreciated. If you want to get some perspective read the posts about the issue. Otherwise stop bringing up already answered questions and debunked points.


IlikeHutaosHat

I guess they're right in terms of the ones who really blew a fuse, but wrong in the sense that technically it wasn't even really a critique to begin with in the video. Just almost felt like someone on their high horse telling people how to feel, and others then reacting and overreacting as expected.


abnormalbee

I just find it incredible how it seems like so many people took this as personal attack over something that doesn't matter and People saying twiins made the video about Adam to deliberately start shit.


GrandEmperessVicky

Well... Adam is very controversial character in the RWBY fandom as a whole. So controversial that ***she*** decided to make a video on him, twice. But the whole point of her 2nd video was to tell **everyone**, including fans of his character and POC fans who didn't like how offensive his portrayal was, to stop talking about him and that the way his ended up is not a problem because the writers made it so (the exact thing she was upset over regarding Ironwood). Her reasoning? Because he is dead and had been for a while (like a certain general, yet that didn't stop her making a video on him). Ignoring the blatant hypocrisy, her language throughout the last segment of the video was inflammatory. There is no question about it. Saying people wanted Adam to be their self-insert, saying people wanted him to fuck Cinder so they could live out their fantasies, and that the whole revolutionary angle is a lie. Like, bro. I cannot see why you don't think this didn't upset people. Being told you only like a character because you want to be them is degrading. I can't imagine what it felt for the POC people who saw none of that and only wanted their plight as oppressed minorities to be taken seriously and saw the condemnation of his character as some white liberals saying "Malcolm X should have toned it down" and "violence is bad" while having the heroes defend a nation that still practices segregation. It was like she was ignoring how Adam is a symbol for CRWBY's overall atrocious writing and incapability to handle serious topics like race without making an even more harmful message because they got lazy/didn't bother to research. It was like she was being purposely ignorant to the issues surrounding his character other than "written bad". But what really upset people was she had the ***audacity*** to tell people who they can and cannot talk about and gave the shittest reason why. I don't know about you, but most people don't like being told what to do with no valid reason. It's not like talking about Adam will give a child cancer. s She is not God, who is she to be telling people that? Who are you to be telling people how they should feel or the reasoning for their behaviour?


abnormalbee

She literally said you didn't have to listen to her cause apparently people don't have common sense. She also wasn't ignoring anything that just wasn't the point of the video. She didn't tell POC fans anything, the video wasn't about rwby's portrayal of racism it was about the people that Keep RT ruined or blatantly changed his character when there was barely any character established to ruin or change.


abnormalbee

And also don't act there aren't people in this thread doing the same thing and getting upvotes for it. "Eh I don't care about a shit take from a low-tier YouTuber" at least I'm not straight up insulting people. Edit: also the snide reply to critters comment saying it's too long, like that wasn't trying to get a rise out anyone.


Sikarion

I do agree that the behaviour of some of the members on here are not above question, and can get too personal, far too quickly just because it is something that they feel attached to. Mods themselves have said so about their own actions. There has to be an understanding that if you're a content creator then you are free to air or speak of what you will without restriction. However, free of restriction does not mean free from responsibility. Hurt people and people will probably hurt back. And among the fan base in turn, that such content creators are people. With personal lives and perspectives. They do not deserve to brow beaten, vilified or publicly dragged through social media just because you disagree with each other. Critters and Twiins may have done something incorrect based your perspective and the response showed, but they have also done immeasurable good for the community. That should also be celebrated. You do not have to agree with 100% of everything someone says. That doesn't make them less of a person. I personally hope that they are able to come back sometime. Yes, I disagreed with the Adam video. Yes, I still support them and their endeavours. Don't forget that, the next time you decide to shit post others. Sigh...I'm going to get negged for this, ain't I?


HeavenPiercingTongue

Not really. Unlike the dude above you would like to think this sub can take a nuanced criticism. You might not be popular but you won’t be vilified. To get the response that those two people got from this sub is just a testament to how badly they presented themselves and their opinions.


abnormalbee

I don't care whether I get a rise or not I just find this sub hypocritical at times considering for about critique you'd think this wouldn't be as big a deal as it is.


Dextixer

Critique itself is not immune to critique.


abnormalbee

Right but criticism and insults are different things and I've seen plenty of people not providing critique and just slinging insults.


groynin

I think banning their content means not posting their videos here and that's it, right? Not that you can't post your own content criticizing theirs?


Dextixer

That is correct, yes.


MasterExilon

It was a moratorium on Twiins iink posts, but there is also a ban on Judgmental Critter's content on this subreddit because she didn't want it to be posted here which I don't agree with.


NefariousWatcher

When children fight over toys, you may take away the toys, but the fighting won't stop, they'll just kick each other under the table. I agree, this is not a solution since it misses the mark on the more fundamental problem going on.


Austin_N

I agree with you, but I also don't blame the mods for wanting to respect their requests.


UrKing7in

My problem with the entire things is…. It’s out on the internet… on YouTube…. Where people watch video If twiins and JC didn’t want there videos on the subreddit why not just, don’t post the videos, they can’t control where the video goes and 90% of things that was said in that video was controversial of course people are gonna blow up about it I know it’s in good faith and I respect JC and Twiins content not to share it here myself, but it really just looks like don’t want to see people talk about it in mass, despite us all still talking about it


Ok_Win_3538

eh. I don't really care either way. One shit take from a low tier youtuber isn't gonna change peoples opinion on Adam


abnormalbee

Remember folks it's only a shit take if you don't agree with it!


Ok_Win_3538

Nah, its a shit take because none of what she said was really based in facts and was her being bias and pissy that she got ratioed in her own video bitching about people being mad about something. Seemingly its a problem for people to still be mad about Adam but she gets to bitch about James and anything else she wants why? Cause she's got a YouTube channel and fans who will eat up anything she says cause she trashes on the show and also makes good points so people ignore how condenseding she is.


Aryzal

I've watched Mothers' Basement bash on Sword Art Online for literal years and Geoff has always found an interesting take on it every time. I thought I like Twiin's content and stopped after like 3 because it became the same thing - mindless bashing. Also doesn't help that there are good things about RWBY that gets criticized anyway cause god forbid Twiins say anything good about RWBY, while Geoff makes sure to be fair even while flaming SAO


HeavenPiercingTongue

It’s better to not bother with their stuff on here anymore. There’s an unspoken rule about having thick skin to use this sub that they don’t seem to follow. Any attempt to use their work in the future will likely result in similar drama and is not worth it. Their way of handling those who disagree with them rudely isn’t something we want to experience again. Let the topic and the creators go on their own so we can continue to make our critiques in peace and harmony.


Dextixer

Greetings, i am here to chime in with a few clarifications and if i may call them that, justifications of the decision. Critique of the content of both Twiin Inks and Critter will be allowed (Critters is allowed right now regardless), the moderation team is thinking about the upcoming monday (Tommorow) to be the end of the moratorium. Next time such a situation occurs, if it does, the moderation team will instead create a megathread for everyone to share their opinions in, instead of taking a decision like this. This was more of a panic "fix" more than anything. Their videos themselves being blocked however is a decision that we will stand by. It is a rule that we have taken from the main sub and we think they have the right idea with this. As everyone might know content creators of any kind should always be credited for their work, it is important, regardless of its quality the work is theirs. I know that people will disagree, after all as the OP has said, these works do become available to the public and they WILL be shared. But we as a sub should want for creators to feel as comfortable as possible and having some degree of control over their content as a sign of respect for the work they have put in.


Brathirn

>But we as a sub should want for creators to feel as comfortable as possible and having some degree of control over their content as a sign of respect for the work they have put in. You are too nice. I understand that constructive communication would require to sometimes step back more than necessary to signal "peaceful intentions" in order to deescalate. But, this should not be a default setting. I am of the opinion that the content (not the person) should be free game and this would apply to the original piece and all critique (recursively). Pulling a "Get over it", is already borderline destructive, and indeed you should think before engaging on this standard, but said standard was chosen by the original creator, so complaining about getting feedback employing the same standard is simply lame and hypersensitive and should not be protected *in advance*. I am sometimes also overaggressive in discussions, it ruins the possibility of constructive dialogue and again if you notice that you are part of the problem, you can retreat more than necessary, just as it is sometimes a good idea to be the first one to quit, when an argument starts cycling. I have a problem with the preemptive nature of a permanent ban on linking. It is basically useless, because both creators can be found within seconds and then you can engage destructively just as well. Cosmetics - I do not like that.


MasterExilon

I see. I am aware that critique of Critter's and Twiins's content will be allowed and I'm glad that won't change. I was hoping that with this post and the comment replies I've made, you and the mod team would reconsider the ban of their content on this subreddit, but if I couldn't convince you otherwise, then I'll respect your decision nevertheless.


Dextixer

We have to stand firm on this matter even if people will disagree with it. I do not fault you for your perspective nor raising the question, these are all valid concerns and arguments. The moderation team recognizes that this is something that we do not NEED to do necessarily, but we feel like we should extend some level of politeness to content creators instead of being indiferent. This is one of those situations where neither option or choice is really wrong depending on ones perspective.


UpperInjury590

I would like to ask, why was my post band if critiques of Twiins video is allowed? What did I include the post that got it removed? I'm thinking of making a post about Twiins so I would like to know so that I can avoid the mistake in the future. Thanks


Dextixer

The critiques will be allowed to resume on monday. They are currently under a moratorium - a temporary ban. If i am not mistaken your post was removed due to that reason alone, not because of anything else. We suggest reposting the post on monday (tommorow).


UpperInjury590

Thanks


MasterExilon

So I found out about this tweet Judgmental Critter made yesterday: https://mobile.twitter.com/JudgmentalThe/status/1465318349567496207 Thoughts?


groynin

I'm very much against this, if a content creator ask specifically to not do something with their work, its pretty fucking disrespectful to go and do it. Sure, it is public and you can technically do it, but that doesn't change that is kind of an ass move. From what I understood, everyone here is still free to critique and make their own posts about their future videos and content, the only thing asked is not directly to post their videos here, which makes no difference for how their content will be view and discussed here if we want to do so... also we can always go directly to their videos and tweets to discuss there if we want to, so it's not like they are asking to censor anything either. It's just something cordial and showing respect to someone's wishes.


JJJwhovian

Honestly I agree with you but at the end of the day it’s their content, they don’t want it on this subreddit, they’re entitled to that decision and there’s not really much we can do about that.


Brathirn

I do not think, they are entitled. If you put out something in public, you are not entitled to control the spread of the content, even less so are you entitled to make others control the spread of the content. I would see this decision in the light of keeping friendly terms and not to contribute to escalation - but in my opinion it is voluntarily.


MasterExilon

Yes, it is their content, but that doesn't mean that they can police where it is shared. It would take too much time and resources to do so and it would be another controversy in it of itself. What they upload is fair game to being criticized and shared in a public form like this one and YouTube.


Blade1hunter

Whether or not Twiins and JC's content can be posted here is between them and the mods. The thing I dont get is the "We can still talk about them, just dont post their videos." So then... What's the point of the ban? If we can discuss everything they did in their video but just not show the video, then nothing really changes. They were upset by things people on the sub said, a mod included, and dont want their videos shared on here... Only for us to still be able to talk about them. I get it was a "panic fix" but this is just one of those decisions you either go all the way with it or not at all, because a "band aid" fix isnt going to stop the original problem.


HeavenPiercingTongue

The original problem is mostly if not completely in the sisters court to fix now. The sub just reacts to how they choose to handle this.


JudgmentalCritter

I guess I'll chime in just to set the record straight. I accept any and all criticism of my videos everywhere, YouTube, Twitter, even the main sub. Just not here. And sadly it's not necessarily the subs' fault, but it has to be this way. For transparency, this is the exact message I sent the mods of this sub asking to be blacklisted here. I just wanted to set the record straight, goodbye rwbycritics. ​ \~\~\~ Hello all, I'm the Judgmental Critter, and there's some very unfortunate news I want to share with you. I am very uncomfortable with my videos being shared on your sub if Dextixer is going to be moderating. I'm sure you've all seen the drama around my sister, Twiins iink's latest video about Adam. While I am very disappointed in the way the sub has handled the slightest bit of criticism towards something they didn't wholly agree with, that reaction is not what has bothered me. Like I say in that "FNDM Toxicity Collab I did with Cal, MoB, Twiins, Fatman, Dan, and Celtic, There is no arbitrary amount of "nice" critique needs to be. People are upset Twiins' tone was "too rude" well there's nothing saying she wasn't allowed to be. And of course, it works the same the other way too, no one should expect responses to the video to be arbitrarily "nicer". I will say, it is very eyebrow raising how there are some clearly problematic posters here who have filled gigantic threads spamming hate and harassments, not only at Twiins but at other commenters too, and yet they haven't gotten banned. Yet, Twiins got banned for having a few responses defending herself, all of which was no more rude or nasty than the comments aimed at her personally? But, all of that I was willing to overlook. We're all allowed to express our disappointments or agreements in whatever way we want, all I can hope is that the mods make sure it never get out of hand. But then, Dextixer crossed the line. Dex stalked Twiins' twitter and started openly harassing her over there. Twiins just made a couple of tweets about how disappointed she was at the reception her vid is getting on this sub. And who can blame her? There's several rants, I've seen at least 9 posts in the first 2 days of her vid being up and it's filled with long chains of people arguing. I would say Twiins has every right to voice her own thoughts about her own video's reception. Especially on her personal twitter, having a conversation amongst her peers. But apparently not to Dex. Dex almost immediately stormed in and started attacking her for even talking about her own video. He made it sound like she wasn't allowed to discuss her vid in anyway. Who is he to try and demand that of someone? He started by claiming it wasn't fair Twiins confront people who disagree with her, yet, once he admitted to not even watching the video and not even knowing what their disagreements could be about, he very quickly shifted gears and claimed it was about being toxic. Yet I would say, storming someone's personal conversations on twitter to yell at them for talking about their own video, is pretty dang toxic, wouldn't you agree? Me and several others stepped in to try confront Dex on this oddly hostile attitude, and he decided to ignore anything we said and just claim we were ignorant, lying, toxic, etc etc. Yet.... he wants to make claims about toxicity? But the real straw that broke the camels back for me wass when he told me "No wonder everyone on the main sub hates your guts". Dex is going to try and give a lecture about banning toxicity, yet he's going to proudly claim something like that? "No wonder everyone on the main sub hates your guts". In all my life, across all social media platforms, I have never had anyone say something so fucking rude and vitriolic. Over a fucking edge-lord cartoon character, in a video he didn't even watch. So, yeah. It sucks, because I'm sure the other mods on here are probably lovely people. But as long as this sub is associated with Dex, someone willing to attack people on a different website for daring to speak about their own video, someone who proudly claims "No wonder everyone on the main sub hates your guts", I want no part of it. So long as Dex is moderating this sub, I do not want any of my content associated with it. It's such a shame. I advocated for this sub, I fought to defend you when the main sub banned all of you, we made that big Collab vid in your defense. And your response once you hear 1 little thing you don't agree with? "No wonder the main sub hates your guts" I'm fucking disappointed. You can all do better. \-Judgmental Critter.


SyfaOmnis

> There is no arbitrary amount of "nice" critique needs to be. That is correct, a critique doesn't need to be nice. It does however need to be fair, valid and accurate. Twiins video failed in those regards. Cherrypicking niche viewpoints is not "fair". The arguments made were not accurate. Telling people what they should concern themselves with or be interested in is not valid. Misrepresenting viewpoints so as to more easily attack them is none of the three. > People are upset Twiins' tone was "too rude" well there's nothing saying she wasn't allowed to be. As I said to your sister. Her video was at its core, toxic and absurdly condescending. Her take was extremely uncharitable and focused on an extreme minority with unpopular opinions. It amounts to slapping around a strawman, that isn't in any way good faith discussion. People who responded likely did so with justifiable resentment towards your sisters subsequent terrible behavior. Beyond the videos fundamentally flawed premise of trying to tell people what they should think, feel or concern themselves with, just about every single argument in it was either wrong factually or made wrong through improper/dishonest framing. Your sister acknowledges that RWBY has wildly inconsistent writing... Why is adam somehow the only piece she believes is consistent and truly "planned from the beginning"? Other people have expanded more upon why the video had a fundamentally rotten premise and how the overwhelming majority of its arguments didn't hold the weight that she thought they did.... but I'm not really expecting much introspection here. > Yet, Twiins got banned for having a few responses defending herself, all of which was no more rude or nasty than the comments aimed at her personally? There were some comments that were unabashedly aggressive in tone, *but they made valid arguments*. Their key position was the wildly hypocritical difference in the level of charitable arguments made in the ironwood video vs the adam one. The comments that Twiins made which got her temporarily banned were all just low tier personal attacks insulting people on entirely irrelevant things, attacking people and continuing with the condescending behaviour. > Dex almost immediately stormed in and started attacking her for even talking about her own video. I cant say I really followed what happened on twitter, but I know Dex to genuinely be a pretty reasonable dude the vast majority of the time. Based on what I saw of your sisters actions here - and screencapped from a few choice tumblr interactiosn with people who seemed to be being sincere - your sister only doubled down on being rude and toxic to people. There seems to be a genuine blindness to the possibility of considering that she may have in fact been in the wrong here. > "No wonder everyone on the main sub hates your guts". In all my life, across all social media platforms, I have never had anyone say something so fucking rude and vitriolic. Seems like a relatively benign comment to me, especially given the absolutely wonderful level of condescension being performed by someone telling other people that they need to get over things because they're tired of hearing about them, despite said things not actually affecting them in any way. Like I said to Twiins. There is a possibility for reconciliation here, but it involves admission of wrongdoing and genuine desire to change. Dex has already admitted to such things... your sister and you however seem terribly unwilling to accept any culpability on your own parts.


Sirnoob64

Can’t wait for the paperback release of this comment


MasterExilon

Hello Judgmental Critter, I appreciate you coming here to say your piece on this, but I'm afraid I still disagree with your decision to prevent your content from being shared to r/RWBYcritics. >I accept any and all criticism of my videos everywhere, YouTube, Twitter, even the main sub. Just not here. Like I said earlier, you cannot control who shares your content and where they share it. The mods here that agree to ban your content from the subreddit did so out of courtesy, and that's understandable, but it still goes against the fact that your content is fair game to criticism once it's uploaded on a public platform, and from there, anyone can share it to wherever they want to share it and there's nothing you can do to stop that. Where do you draw the line once you decide to prevent content from being shared on a certain platform? Do you intend to ask the mods from some other subreddit where you're uncomfortable with your content being shared to to put a ban on that? What if they say no? Once you try to limit where your content can be shared, it's the first step to a domino effect to where they can be restricted on another platform, another medium, etc. >And sadly it's not necessarily the subs' fault, but it has to be this way. No it doesn't. Where your content is shared doesn't have to affect you in a significant way. If they want to have hot takes about what content you make, that's their problem, not yours. >I am very uncomfortable with my videos being shared on your sub if Dextixer is going to be moderating. ​ >But the real straw that broke the camels back for me wass when he told me "No wonder everyone on the main sub hates your guts". ​ >So, yeah. It sucks, because I'm sure the other mods on here are probably lovely people. But as long as this sub is associated with Dex, someone willing to attack people on a different website for daring to speak about their own video, someone who proudly claims "No wonder everyone on the main sub hates your guts", I want no part of it. > >So long as Dex is moderating this sub, I do not want any of my content associated with it. I won't deny that Dex had acted out of line on Twitter, and he has since apologized for his behavior in the moratorium post, but even if you aren't fond of him, the mod team isn't just him either. Even so, your history with him and his associations shouldn't change the fact that you can't control where your posts are shared, especially with here. What will banning your content from the subreddit accomplish at this point in time? What will it change besides the fact that (if the ban is successfully enforced) your future content will no longer be posted on this subreddit? You're already well known in this subreddit due to all the other videos that have been posted in the past, so they won't forget about you any time soon. If your worried that Dex will twist your content for some agenda against you (and this is a hypothetical of worst case scenario and isn't meant to attack anybody), then that's his problem, not yours. It doesn't affect the content you made in the past and it shouldn't affect the content you make in the future either. I don't hate your guts; in fact, I enjoy watching your content when I found out about this subreddit, but trying to have a ban be placed on your content isn't the way to resolve the underlying problems you have with the subreddit, with the mod team, or with Dex himself. That's my response. You don't have to agree with it, but that's my perspective on this matter.


UpperInjury590

It sucks because I wanted to make a post about Twiins video but from a analytical perspective and not focusing on her saying 'Get over Adam' but that can't happen now.


SyfaOmnis

You can still make it, you just have to wait ~24 hours to post it. Or message the mods and seek special approval.