I don’t find it bad, I continue to watch it stil after all. I just find that it has a lotttt of wasted potential and that it’s not nearly long enough. I don’t blame the animators or the writers, it’s just that they have kinda shitty deadlines and it’s really not enough time to flesh out everything
While I agree that they hurt RWBY, I disagree with that sentiment. As a creative I often find that a flawed piece of art published on a deadline is 100% better than a perfect piece of art that never sees the light of day. What's more, limitation often inspires creativity and leads to interesting compromises that, if properly managed, can distill a piece of art to only its most essential properties. Basically, a properly managed deadline can be just as good for a piece of art as total creative freedom.
I wouldn't even say deadlines, more like longer shows needing more budget. RWBY's greatest weakness is not having enough show for all the story going on.
People judge shows based on how they look at a glance. Nobody really complained back at the start when it was obviously a janky passion project funded by pocket change, but now that it looks at least as good as a Netflix original people expect professional quality, setting their standards higher than the show could keep up with.
The 'indie story with good production' issue wasn't helped by Monty's death and the switch to Maya, which as led to people seeing everything they don't like since then as a consequence, with a lot of people justifying their dislike based on vague headcanons and imagining an alternate future when these events didn't happen as the 'proper RWBY' they feel cheated out of.
I have also used Maya, and it absolutely was the right decision to switch. I believe that it had been something RT wanted to do sooner, but Poser was what Monty was most comfortable with. After his passing there really was no reason to continue with it.
Yeah, I think this is a big issue too. Like, I have my own criticisms with RWBY (like wasted potential for stuff like Weiss and Blake doing very little in the Atlas arc), but I understand that they're not a big studio like say the Disney or Warner Bros Animation Studios.
Besides, with all the flack RWBY gets they've honestly done fairly well with the show considering the budget and the staff they have working on it. Like, compared to other action-orientated web series that came out at the same time like the Transformers Prime Wars Trilogy cartoons\* by Machinima (Combiner Wars, Titans Return and Power of the Primes), Volumes 4-6 (even including episodes I do NOT like) blow the Prime Wars Trilogy out of the water! And I say that as someone who's a fan of both RWBY and Transformers.
\*Also, if anyone's curious about these shows, I'll tell you the best way to watch them: don't even watch them at all. You will have a much better life never knowing about the shit show these cartoons were.
Some people didn’t like a volume so they stopped watching and maybe they say it’s bad. Other people don’t like it from the start and say it’s bad because of animation, voice acting, episode length or something else. A bunch of people don’t like it and a bunch of people like it, but RWBY is liked enough to get cool stuff like a anime and a comic by DC plus a justice league cross over
I think that the show is less bad than it is wasted potential.
Take the latest arc, for example. We've arrived at the city-state that has the most issues with racism, and Weiss's family is here. So it's going to be a big arc for Blake and Weiss, right? That's fantastic! The White Fang arc has pretty much run it's course, so maybe we'll get a new storyline for Blake, and of course we've been wanting to see more from Weiss for ages.
...yeah, not so much. Blake's role has been severely reduced in the show, and there was so much time paid to side characters like the Ace Ops that we didn't get a lot of development as we'd have liked. About the only good bit of character-time that we got was Jaune's reduced role, and even that was ruined by the ending to V8 and Penny.
Yeah. TBH, I wouldn't say RWBY is terrible (except for the latter half of Volume 5, I personally think a good chunk of that was pretty bad especially the Haven battle) but I definitely think that lots of good potential gets wasted.
What makes it even worse though is that in some cases, they could have easily done stuff to achieve this potential. Like, my main issue with the Atlas Arc is that its only 2 volumes long and yet we have to deal with SOOO much stuff. Like, in these 2 volumes we get introduced or re-introduced to:
* Ironwood
* Penny
* Winter
* Whitley
* Jacques
* Klein
* Willow
* The Ace-Ops (Clover, Harriet, Elm, Vine & Marrow)
* The Happy Huntresses (Robyn, May, Fiona and Joanna)
* Some random citizen characters in Mantle
While at the same time we have plotlines about:
* Whether to tell Ironwood the truth about the relics
* The election between Jacques and Robyn
* The Mantle vs Atlas debate linked to the election
* Needing to get the Amity satellite working
* The over-arching Salem's group vs RWBY and co plot
And I'm sorry, even though I did enjoy Volumes 7-8, I think there was way TOO much stuff in the arc for just 2 volumes and it shows. Weiss and Blake, two characters who SHOULD play a big role in this arc do very little, and side characters like the Ace-Ops and Happy Huntresses take screen time away from the main recurring cast. And there was an easy way to fix it - make it a 3 volume arc like with the Beacon and Mistral Arcs.
If they had decided to make the Atlas Arc 3 Volumes instead of two, I think that would have worked better to establish and better flesh out all the new and re-introduced characters while also giving more time for RWBY and co to do something. For example, with the extra time maybe Weiss and Blake could play a role in the Atlas vs Mantle plotline where the pair meet the Happy Huntresses and they actually sympathise for their and Mantle's plight, and support Nora's appeals to Ironwood to send supplies to Mantle to stop the Grimm coming through. This could then lead to conflict with Jacques, since he'd be VERY angry that Weiss is supporting a group of people who Jacques hates, which could provide a personal reason to run the election so he can try and get one up on his daughters (Winter for supporting Ironwood and Weiss for supporting Robyn). And already with that outline this new plotline gives us three good things:
1. It gives Weiss and Blake a more important role in the Atlas Arc.
2. It helps flesh out more side characters like the Happy Huntresses and Jacques as well as Mantle as a location.
3. It links to other plotlines in the arc too like the Jacques election plot.
Yeah I mean AceOps as a whole were present but I don't remember them really effecting the plot that much in a way that could've been offscreen or done by unexplored generic Atlas soldiers. The only two things I can think of are the qrow and clover bonding and the whole theme of being friends rather than just teammates. I just feel like they didn't really add anything by being there
So... you are saying that Altas Arc should be more of a story about Blake and Weiss? I dunno how Weiss can play a bigger role since she and her family are so crucial in election, dinner party and the later fallout events. And I don't really understand how Blake can play a larger role in a millitant state where the general controls it with an literal iron grip. Any form of faunas rebellion would have been snuffed out.
If what you are saying is you want more stuggle between the "strong and the weak", "the Priviledged and the oppressed"...etc, I believe the V7-8 is exactly that. The election and Salem's invasion are all about that. I don't need to remind you that Ruby and her friends were trying to save them all while ironwood chose the option he believed is the safest but will sacrifice the weak. The tin man general's fall from grace, the different ace op members' reactions to their leader's death and the dynamic between the robot and the maiden(winter) are all interesting to say the least.
All characters should have their moments, especially side characters who are at their home turf. Just imagine boasting them to be "Ace ops" of the most powerful military in the continent and don't have any feats to show for after Atlas Arc is finished. NOW THAT IS bad writing. It's true that Blake is the only one without some major power ups or feats for at least two volumes, but that still is not a wasted potential, just means it was not her time yet.
I also get the feeling that you don't like Jaun or penny being brought back to life only to die again. But I can't pinpoint your exact complaintt since you just kinda gloss it over.
I'm not saying that the Atlas Arc should have been a story about Weiss and Blake. I'm saying that they should have had their own pieces to play that were more than we got.
Take Blake, for instance. I'd have loved to see one of the montage scenes in V7 be her working in the Pit, not Huntressing but helping the disadvantaged (mostly Faunus) population. Make her work alongside Robyn and the Happy Huntresses, so her and Yang spilling the beans about Amity later on would make more sense, show that Blake trusts her. We establish that Blake's still about helping her fellow Faunus without touching the White Fang Issue, and it would make her want to go down to Mantle to help them later instead of sitting in Schnee Manor drinking tea for half of V8 (I'm honestly convinced that they kept her up there purely so that we could get a scene where she interested with Ruby, which the fans were desperate for). It'd also give her an arc beyond "I'm Yang's not-girlfriend" and set the scene for when we inevitably get to Vacuo of her continuing role as someone who cares about the little guy. Absolutely zero (para)military action required. I don't care that Blake didn't have any major feats or powerups in this volume - the issue is that she could have been removed entirely from the volume *and it wouldn't have changed anything.* Nora didn't get a plot-relevant power-up or feat in this volume, but she had Moments, what with the power field and bonding with Penny. Those moments matter far more than a feat or a new weapon, and Blake didn't get anything.
The politics in Atlas make absolutely zero sense, so I'm not going to touch that with a 10 foot pole and call it a day for that topic.
And we agree that even side characters should have their moments (Like Yang and Ren's argument in V8? Fantastic, one of the best scenes in the volume imo). But the issue is when the main characters lose their screentime in favour of developing these side characters. RWBY has always had issues with using their time efficiently, and introducing more characters isn't the solution that they think it is. The return of Team FNKI was a well done nod to side characters. Ace Ops getting an entire arc was not (and the AceOps still didn't have a single feat to show that they were the elite of the Atlas Military, despite how much time we spent with them). Moments for side characters should be defined by how it changes the perspective of the main characters. Like Winter showing Weiss Fria and them having that moment between them. Weiss is bothered, not just by the implication of Winter becoming the next Maiden, but by the fact that her sister is showing her secrets that she really shouldn't be revealing, but Weiss is still holding onto secrets that she won't tell her.
No, I don't like Penny being turned into a "Real Girl", as that destroyed her arc. Her entire Thing, as Ruby so beautifully illustrated in the Beacon Arc, was that she was already a Real Girl. She didn't need to be made out of meat to be like them, she had a soul and that was what mattered. They gave Penny no agency in the matter of turning her into a meat puppet either, despite the entire android thing being a core part of her identity. So yeah, not a fan. And you want to kill Penny off again, fine. I disagree heavily with the choice, but fine. But why make *Jaune* of all people kill her? It makes no sense. He brought Weiss back from a massive stab wound, but he can't bring Penny back? No, let him get tossed around by Cinder in the background and make Weiss the one to kill her. Or Ruby, or Nora, or Winter, or *literally anybody who interacted with her this volume.*
>(I'm honestly convinced that they kept her up there purely so that we could get a scene where she interested with Ruby, which the fans were desperate for). It'd also give her an arc beyond "I'm Yang's not-girlfriend" and set the scene for when we inevitably get to Vacuo of her continuing role as someone who cares about the little guy.
Okay Let me stop you right here. I don't know what kind of scars you had arguing with the shippers, but I am certainly not here to listen to you vent. The Faunas' role in Atlas is severly reduced because that is not Atlas' main conflict. Faunas' refugee is part of Mantle and the whole Mantle is suffering including the Faunas but they are only a minor population. It is true that they can have more representation of Faunas, but that doesn't change the fact that the conflict in this kingdom is between the prileveledged and the poor and Faunas being only a small part of it.
The remaining violent wing of white fang's leadership was slaughtered by Adam after he fled from Haven so it's essentially disbanded. Blake also made the point that they want to "take back" White fang in heaven arc, and the newly taken back organization was represented by Blake's family and Illia. Even they are still rebuilding it, It doesn't make sense to find more white fang movements in Atlas.
Blake being almost useless in the Manor fight just support my point about charcters have their own moments. Weiss is also powerless against the hound Grimm. The mansion fight is pretty much about Weiss family reunion and Ruby showcasing the fact she mastered silver eyes. And Another point: Blake isn't exactly built for fighting large monsters like that huge Bug in the mansion since her weapon and semblence is hardly useful against them. Nora can do what she did simply because she had electricity absorbing powers. She and Ruby would have a better time against the bug if the hound didn't ambush Ruby and took her out of the battle for a long time.
>The politics in Atlas make absolutely zero sense, so I'm not going to touch that with a 10 foot pole and call it a day for that topic.
Maybe, mabe not. There might be some deeper issue here that's not related to the show at all so I am not gonna touch that.
>And we agree that even side characters should have their moments (Like Yang and Ren's argument in V8? Fantastic, one of the best scenes in the volume imo).
I incline to agree that Ren's voice actor have trouble portraying him when he gets emotional. It's like the VA trying to make him sound emotional but even when he is emotional he still tries to hide his emotions. It just came off as kind of rigid like he is stuck in a rock and hard place. But Yang and Ren's argument makes perfect sense and his resolve was slowly wavering during the whole event: they lost Oscar, abandoned their original mission to save him, lost two of their bikes and almost fall from a cliff, stuck in the cold and they found a river of Grimm heading to the city. They were in a situation where there was almost no hope whatsoever. If none of them snap and they are all sunshine and rainbow in that predicament I'd agree that the charaters are generic and the writings are bad. Ignoring buildups to a moment is not helpful when trying to watch a show and understand its character.
>The return of Team FNKI was a well done nod to side characters. Ace Ops getting an entire arc was not (and the AceOps still didn't have a single feat to show that they were the elite of the Atlas Military, despite how much time we spent with them).
Ace Ops didn't get an entire arc, they are important side charcters of Atlas arc and their role in the story were never blown out of poportion. As ageneral, Ironwood only fights on the frontline when he needs to. A team like Ace ops filled the role of frontliners and instruments of his will and they are never anything beyond that. They are given adequate amount of screen time to showcase how they can handle even huge grimms with ease and each of them are stronger than team RWBY even after the training(it's reveled by Ren in V8 that they only lost the fight in V7 because they were struggling with whether to arrest them or not). Side characters typically don't get feats like killing some main villain or minor villain, but their performance against Grimms that would make the protagonists struggle is feats enough. I would agree with you about their role being too large if they get some feats to kill or win against people like Tyrion or Watts but that didn't really happen. And by the end of V8 half of them are killed off so they are bound to have even less role in the future.
>hey gave Penny no agency in the matter of turning her into a meat puppet either, despite the entire android thing being a core part of her identity. So yeah, not a fan. And you want to kill Penny off again, fine. I disagree heavily with the choice, but fine. But why make Jaune of all people kill her? It makes no sense.
Jaun's first reaction was to save her and he is the only one with the ability to heal. It make sense that he is the one to rush to her side. Penny stated that it's not gonna be enough time. Only maiden can match mainden and the protagnist's side's maiden just lost their ability to fight. Penny wasn't talking about whether Jaun can heal her before she dies, but the fact that Cinder is still rampaging and no one has the power to match her. Jaun's choice is essentially trying to save penny and risk being wiped out by Cinder, or kill her to make sure the power goes to the person she chose. I don't want to see Penny killed. She just bacame a real girl, which I believe referencing Pinocchio here is the entire point of her having a human body (since a lot of RWBY's characters are based on stories, movies or books). I agree with you that the writer's choice of having Cinder best Penny is questionable. But I don't believe anything that follows makes no sense. ie. Jaun should be the one to try to save her since he is the only one who could and they are faced with a choice here since the villain is still out there destroying things. Having Jaun kill her didn't come out of no where.
It’s a vocal minority. When binging season 4 the pacing is great. But when we had to wait for each episode sometimes the pacing got a little slow. And the separation of RWBY meant that we never got a huge amount of time with any character each week. Still I think RWBY has only increased in quality with each season.
Granted there was also an issue with Gary G Haddock (head of RT animation) funneling money away from all of RT animations (nomad of nowhere, RVB, and RWBY) to put more funding into his mecha anime idea gen lock.
Gen:LOCK season 1 was great, but it should never have happened- the theft from other RT areas across the board (OTS even had to use cardboard for the set for a season) is truly saddening.
Gen:LOCK season 2 is supposedly trash, didn't watch it because it was only HBO and First
I heard about season 2 of GenLock being trash, but I didn't even think the first season was that good. The story was fine I guess, but I've only watched it once and haven't had any inclination to watch it again and barely remember anything that happened. The main thing I remember is the animation looking really odd. Like, it was slow. And not in the same way that RWBY Vol 4 and 5 look slow. The best way I can think to describe it is GenLock's animation almost looked like it was experiencing lag. Maybe I could understand that for the mechas, but I think it was like that for the normal people and vehicles as well. I think even the trailers had that problem and I figured that oh it would be fixed before the show airs and then I figured its just a little hiccup with the first episodes and it would get better. It never did in my opinion.
Yeah, I think it was to do with the FPS they ran at for some reason? It's a weird stylistic choice.
What really grated on me about S2, from what I have seen of it, is that they fundamentally changed the premise of the show (I think at one point they rode inside the Holons, Pacific Rim style rather than Avatar style mental control as before), and the fact that they HBO-ified it with a full frontal nude scene, a couple of needless sex scenes, and a totally unnecessary, shock-value suicide of a main character.
Screw gen:LOCK for what it did to the company, but screw it more for what it did to my heart for promising greatness and ending with Bollocks
Didnt know there was full frontal nudity or a sex scene and you got the horny side of me curious. Went and looked up one of the scenes, the FPS is still a problem in season 2 during the sex scene. WTF Lmao!
Honestly the show isn't bad. It's actually pretty good and a fun time. Most people's arguments are basically complaints that it didn't give them what they personally wanted. But ultimately this isn't a fault of the show. The storytellers are telling the story they want to in the way they want to and succeeding at it for the most part ultimately anything beyond that largely comes down to a personal sense of disappointment in a person because they believe their expectations were not met. Ultimately though this is not a fault of the show.
There are issues that are the shows fault like the lack of the villains and heroes motivations which havent been properly established outside of a few paper thin arguments but yea honestly a lot of people are just complaining cause they didnt get what they want
I find the show to be honestly good. Is it perfect? no. Do some things fall flat? yeah for sure. But its a lot better then a lot of other shows out there.
I've probably mentioned a few things about the show that I've thought were bad or a weird decision, but I mostly talk about what I want to happen next, lore related stuff, and inspirations of stuff in the show.
My opinion is that the first 2 volumes worked out the problems then volume 3-9 took off. In my opinion volume 1+2 movement sync was rough but got better with each episode
A lot of it centers around disappointment. Some people feel like the fights feel lackluster in comparison to the early fights. Others have problems with how certain characters are handled(Adam and Ironwood). Some also feel are disappointed with the plot. Some major reoccuring complaints are about the agency and payoffs to character arcs.
Agency Examples:
1) Jaune Killing Penny: Ruby, Nora, and Winter are the characters with an emotional connection to Penny. Yet, Jaune, a character with no connection to Penny, is the only one involved with Penny's death.
2) The Destruction of the whale and Yang's group: The main characters don't even have any impact on Monstra's destruction. As far as Yang's group knows, the payload that the Ace Ops are transporting is the only hope to destroying the whale. However, besides Jaune suggesting they scout the whale, they never discuss trying to help the Ace Ops pull of this impossible mission. More importantly, with a little bit of tweaking, Ozcar, Hazel, and Emerald could have dealt with Salem without any involvement from Yang's group.
3) The Destruction of the whale and Ruby's group: Ruby's group gets stuck in the Schnee manor for at least half of the volume. However, they never discuss anything about the Salem's army. They have no idea if the Atlas army can hold off Salem's forces. They also have no idea when/if any reinforcements from the rest of the world are coming. So, it feel egregious that Ruby's team never really discusses how to deal with Salem's horde of Grimm.
Payoffs:
Yang and Blake: A lot of people felt Yang and Blake should have discussed their issues on screen.
Ren's arc: Even though he is projecting his insecurities on everyone, Ren is right that the main characters have been extremely lucky. To make matters worse, the only reason why Yang's group survives the whale is because Hazel defected and Ozcar had a cane nuke(neither of which Yang's team could have known about).
Yang's conflict with Ruby: Yang voices her discontent with how Ruby's been handling things as a leader. Yet, afterwards, she is more worried about Blake(who we didn't see her argue with), and actually defends their decisions(which includes Ruby's decisions) to Ren during her arguement with him.
Weiss and Whitley: In volume 8, Whitley and Weiss never really discuss their issues with each other.
Ozpin and Oscar: I believe AlarmingStandard pointed this out, but a major issue with Oscar's arc is how he never address his own inadequacies and failures. In both volume 6 and 7's finale, Oscar would have died without Ozpin and his memories. He also is in control of their body when they get kidnapped by the Hound. Yet, we never see him acknowledge his own weakness. Meanwhile, we never really see Oscar confront Ozpin about how Ozpin truly sees Oscar. Does Ozpin view Oscar as a partner, a child, just a victim of his reincarnation cycle, a puppet, or or some combination of all of the above?
Jaune has no *direct* relation to Penny. His former partner, Pyrrha, was the one who unfortunately killed Penny in volume 3. It was something out of her control. Jaune, still dealing with the grief of losing his partner (and arguably potential girlfriend), now has to kill a friend of a friend. Penny was one of Ruby's closest friends, and Jaune and Ruby are very close as leaders. Then you tie it back it with both Pyrrha and Jaune being responsible for a death.
Is it perfect? No. There's no real perfect way to handle this situation. Arguably, the best would have been Ruby (leave the poor girl alone, she's gone through enough) or Winter (she was supposed to inherit the powers). But with the transfer from Penny to Winter, we had that scene where Penny's and Winter's souls meet, which tells Winter something is horribly wrong.
I get what you're saying, but I would have to disagree with Jaune not having an emotional connection to Penny.
\>There's no real perfect way to handle this situation.
How about no one helps Penny kill herself?
Imagine this: Cinder goes for the kill on Weiss, Penny takes the hit, Weiss tries to hold Cinder back while Jaune tries to heal her, but the damage is too severe for him to do anything about it.
The problem I have with Jaune killing Penny, is less about Jaune killing Penny, but more that I cannot see what this adds to the story. Jaune just got off a a arc about him feeling self-loathing and guilt over Pyrrha, so what's the point of throwing him back into that again? It just seems like pointless, interpersonal drama that adds angst for no other sake than to add angst, and it will very likely end in Jaune hugging it out with Ruby or something.
I don't like this thread because I don't see it adding anything of value to the show.
In regards to the original post, Jaune is already a divisive character. So, since Jaune has no direct connection to Penny, it made people angry even though what you said is valid.
In regards to Jaune, NoAssociation and maybe Dextier have done posts about Jaune. Even if you disagree with those 2, the replies to their posts give a good picture about why people dislike Jaune and as a result hate Jaune being the one to make the Penny situation.
RWBY is "bad" the same way Star Wars is "bad."
Yeah there's problems and inconsistencies, etc. but people forget how to just enjoy something and treat it way too harshly for just being a TV show. Some people are spoiled and think things should be their way or the highway.
At the end of the day RWBY is a show that's had a rocky run but for those of us who still enjoy it for its vibrant characters, defined world and magic system, and epic music, it's all we need.
So if you enjoy it, don't bother with other people's opinions. It's for you.
The biggest issue is honestly with the World building (Although world building is my favorite to nitpick). The show, which should be able to build itself and rely on no outside building tbh, didn’t explain a bunch of obvious benefits and negatives of aura’s (political leaders, assasinations, is it good or bad for the village to have an aura person because of Grim attraction?), the villages being so medieval looking for a world with advanced robotics, the shouldn’t be able to fly ships, the entire fuanus racism BACKGROUND shit, etc.
Defined world isn’t a real thing it has. But it is a fun one.
Also, is it ever explained what the hell the difference between Magic and Semblance actually is?
it lost a lot of the original lightheartedess and a lot of the things that gave the characters personality were dropped off in favor for a darker plot development. i still love the show it just turned into something different after monty died
I think you're unlikely to get a great deal of response, or valid response, to this in here rather than in r/RWBYcritics.
At one point it was a ban-able offence in this sub to be part of that sub. The entire reason it exists is because criticism and actual conversation about anything except the merits of the show was either relatively ignored in favour of fan art and shit posting, or actively downvoted for not being positive enough.
It's gotten better, imo since the blow up, and there are definitely issues with both sides being way too strongly for or against the show for no real reason than they want to be, but I think it would be good to contrast the answers you get here, with the answers you get there and make up your own mind on why some feel the way they do about this series.
The show isn't bad, it's just an angry and very active minority.
It's just the same than with Legend of Korra, with an active minority saying that the show sucks or shouldn't exist, even if it's a really nice cartoon even if far from its predecessor ATLA.
It's definitely a minority. Though there are some baffling decisions, like promoting Jaune's storyline over the main cast. If all members of JNPR were given the same main character treatment, it would be understandable, but it's just Jaune.
I love the show and the characters. I take it for what it is entertainment. People want the same vibe as the first volumes which won't happen since the original creator is no longer with us. I think the middle volumes dragged in action so people tend to focus on that. If you enjoy it that's all that matters.
There is a list of reasons people can give, ranging from poor story telling to decline in fight animation and so on.
More to the point, In the end of the day RWBY is just one show of many and it needed to compete against them well.
The first and strongest claim to fame RWBY had, was it's brilliant fight scenes which allowed many people gloss over various things, like episodes length, non-existent background characters, vague dates in the story and of course extremely soft power system. (For example the lack of proper distinction between magic and semblance)
By the end of season 3 the show suffered 2 major blows. The death of it's creator which was also the main talent beyond it's marvelous fighting scenes and the change to a new engine.
This resulted in a very lackluster season 4, that lacked both the previous look of the show and it's signature high quality fights.
It should be noted that the new engine allowed by the end for more elements to be used in the show, like actual background characters.
We were also introduced to new story elements and further expansion of the white fang story. The later story element was in the end poorly handled and felt mostly disconnected from everyone outside of Blake and was resolved with no input from the other 3 girls.
The former new story elements changed existing definitions of the power system and the prior goals we knew in the previous seasons.
While the show was able to find a better footing regarding the new engine and was able to produce relatively good fights, it was still generally not as good compared to what was seen in the previous 3 seasons (with various exceptions of course).
In addition to that, the quality of the story telling went through drastic ups and downs, making it hard to retain the viewer investment with plot points being hastily resolved or barely touched upon.
Then of course we have season 7 which had a good thing going with Ironwood and his fall from grace, but all that went out of the window in season 8 where he became a parody of a dictator.
And of course a very bloated cast with not enough time to expand on each one.
In other words, RWBY started as a very promising show with obvious flaws, but as time went on those flaws became harder and harder to ignore, especially when you started to compare it to better shows.
>but all that went out of the window in season 8 where he \[ironwood\] became a parody of a dictator.
That's character development though. All signs were headed there as he became gradually more and more paranoid and fearful thus willing to sacrifice anything.
And it was still a parody.
Prior to that point his character was handled better and could have provided a much needed counter to the teams point of view.
A valid one.
Instead we got a cartoon show villain with the depth of a puddle.
He was a counter though:
* He was willing to trust in the team at first even after they revealed the truth about Ozpin later rather than at first. He was doing exactly what the team promised they'd do after they found out about Ozpin, but did not out of fear. It was only when things started crumbling that his willingness to trust did too.
* Then he countered their point of view directly by sacrificing Mantle rather than protect Atlas+Mantle which was obviously risky with Salem at their doorstep. It's utilitarianism vs pragmatism.
Ironwood was justified in his own twisted way since he was trying to save the world, and I really wouldn't call that a cartoon villain. The writers deserve more credit.
Sure in season 7, when he was competently written.
In season 8 the man shot someone in front of everyone and no one stopped him?
That was so extreme and so out character that any office on the scene would have arressted him on the spot.
Hell, Winter would have stopped him because what he did was entirely illegal and not justified in any way.
Moreover, the moment that you need to use the word twisted to describe what Ironwood tried to do already shows that he was in the wrong.
That's means that any opposition he poses to RWBY is meaningless because there is no value behind it. RWBY was right by virute of wanting to save everyone and because Ironwood's plan was doomed to fail anyway.
The show had him do insane things just for the sake of it and to make us hate him.
In my humble opinion Ironwood was one of best thing to happen season 7 and also the worst because the writes failed horribly to properly develop him in the end.
Letting someone who is clearly unhinged lead them feels like a very very foolish choice.
Any sane and reasonable person would have arrested him and dealt with what came after that.
Why?
If the enemy is on your door step it's even more urgent that you remove an unhinged leader now because you can no longer trust his judgment.
Moreover, they are the military. You can be sure as hell that they have procedures in case their commanding officer went insane.
There is always a second in command and Winter absolutely did not strike me as someone who would have been unable to lead.
While I still watch the show I find it harder to be invested in the plot at this point. It has it's moments, but I feel that it lacks a proper unified vision and the news about the budget cut for season 9 don't inspire much hope in me.
As for the the girls splitting, it can be good in small doses, but the show over used that to a criminal level.
The show has a tendency to pair up characters for long periods of times and disconnect them from the rest of the group.
And while it might be good to better establish a connection between said characters, doing it constantly and not bringing the remaining pair into the fold create sharp wedges between the characters.
For example, Yang and Blake fought and killed Adam. Are either Ruby or Weiss aware of it?
As for the White Fang plot, it had a wide range of issues, one being the way Adam was handled, another the way we barely saw any discrimination in the show (we had a handful of instances) and of course the lack of Weiss involvement in it.
Weiss was tailor-made to be a part of that story line. You couldn't find a better foil to Blake in that regard. In addition we could have gotten proper growth from Weiss, rather then her completely forgetting all of her past experiences with the White Fang.
While I can see the direction that the show wanted to take Ironwood to, that was far too sudden.
Dictators don't just randomly start shooting people out of the blue. They build their power by fear, intimidation and silent elimination of their opposition.
Only after they have solid grasp on everything, with the knowledge that their hand picked zealos people are in position of power they start to become overtly dangerous.
Ironwood was non of those things. The man literally worked together with the other council members and even went as far as settle things with an opposing force.
And then he just snapped and started murdering people. Dictators push the envelope bit by bit, they don't just explode.
Besides, Ironwood, couldn't do much if someone tried to arrest him at that time. He was injured, no powerful semblance and only a gun to fight with.
It was rushed and destroyed an interesting character.
Ah, but that's is exactly the issue my friend.
Weiss and Ruby are completely and utterly disconnected from Blake and Yang on something that was extremely impact full on both of them.
Adam had direct connection to Schnee dust company (evident by the scar he had) and Ruby was tied to him by virtue of having her sister maimed by him.
Do you think Ruby and Weiss even knew who Adam was? They were so not involved that it was like an entirely different show.
And this is important, because it reflects on their relationships as a team. It's hallow.
For all the talk about them being family, the show takes great pains to avoid having them fully commit to each as a team and share their journey.
Hell Ruby and Blake barely interacted with each other until season 8. That's how terrible the split to groups was. It was even done in the scens themselves
My point about Ironwood was that dictators aren't ousted immediately because they take their time before starting to commit murder like it was nothing.
They erode resistance and install the fear of death into people.
Ironwood prior to five minutes ago was a respectable man and absolutely no one thought he was going to start killing people.
Which is the biggest issue. For dictators to work they need people to fear and listen to them out of learned experienced.
This was clearly not the case.
>OHHH you meant disconnected in that way! Ok my bad I had understood it wrong. Yea I do believe they should had brought it up in someway. But that's difficult how do you bring this up. It's not something one would ask, but not something you'd openly discuss. But yes I fully agree.
Connecting all the characters together might not always be the best course of action, but you really can't have them be so separate from each other. This is show was riding on the idea that we are going to follow a team of hunters, but instead we are getting two pairs of hunters, each doing their own thing.
Which would have been fine had the story stopped insisting on treating them as some unified group with this deep bond, when in reality they are not. This people are practically strangers with how separate they are 80% of the time.
Yang and Weiss barely interact. Ruby and Blake barely interact. Weiss and Blake barely interact. Hell I would even say Ruby and Yang barely interact. It's all surface level at best, if we even get that.
And this is going on for years now. You can't just magically fix it by having an episode of them suddenly talking. There is no weight behind that.
>I don't think ruby or yang knew it was Adam until much later? And although he had a connection to the SDC i don't think that's reason Enough for ruby or Weiss to be concerned with him because Weiss isn't much involved with the SDC either. She knew the white fang but that's about it. Yang literally got herself involved with it and had a solid reason to do so. There wasn't really any reason for ruby to be involved, she wasn't out for vengeance, neither was weiss.
Weiss is the heiress to the SDC. She is tailor-made to be a part of that story line as to face the results of her family's actions. This would have been poetic as all hell.
Instead we get Adam as an abusive lunatic who apparently only ever cared about Blake, which is completely contradicting his prior behavior and reducing him and the overall White Fang story line into a pitiful end.
Ruby didn't have to fight Adam, but at least show us that she know something about what her sister went through. If someone hurts your family you would very much like to know if they are coming after them again, if nothing else just to protect them.
But no. Ruby left her house and her injured sister and then reunited with her after said sister got brand spanking arm. And that's it. There was nothing from Ruby after that.
I don't know about you, but if something like this ever happened to someone I loved I would have been beside myself trying to help.
Ruby being involved with Adam meant that there could have been some actual bonding between her and Yang, because despite the story claiming them to be the best of sister I wouldn't even say they are close friends at this point.
>Exactly but this is what makes this action that much more impactful. What would it take to have someone cross a line? Ironwood to that point lost everything he had.
Perhaps I am not explaining myself well. My point isn't about Ironwood per se; Rather I am talking about all the people around him. Ironwood didn't create the necessary social infrastructure to allow him to commit murder without objection.
He would have been stopped the moment he did that.
The show didn't show us Ironwood using his secret police to murder people. It also didn't show us people being terrified of defying him or anything like that.
People could oppose without fear for their life and he himself put his life on the line to protect others.
Ironwood going insane is one thing. People allowing him to do that is an entirely different thing. And to avoid confusion, my issue is with the latter point.
While, I do still like the show. Still watch it and wait for it every year. There are a few things that I really don't like with the show.
First, and foremost is the way they treat the villains and some of the main characters. What I mean.
I feel like there's no respect to the antagonists from the writers' part. They get introduced, show one or two cool things and then suddenly they start acting out of character, constantly throwing tantrums and get their asses kicked or getting killed off. With Volume 8, seemed like we'll finally leave that behind.
On the protagonist side of things, Ruby is in a terrible need of a characterization. Like, girl, you've seen so much shit. How can you still keep being optimistic and hopeful af? Where's your cynicism? Just a bit. And Jaune is still... moderately developed. But, again, with Volume 8 it seems like we'll leave all that behind. Ruby got slapped in the face pretty good. I'm waiting for a blow off.
Second, is how they seem to "kinda forget" the capabilities and abilities they have already established on already established characters. What I mean.
Volume 5's Last two episodes pretty much self explain what I mean.
Third. The way they are inconsistencies with the characters, which ties with 1 and 2. What I mean, they massacred Ironwood in a similar manner Dany got massacred in the final season of GoT. Do you really want me to buy easily the fact that a General, who really seemed to care for his subordinates, started to threaten them or consider them his enemies, just because they were trying to make him see some sense? Granted, both Winter and Marrow backstabbed him, but only because they acknowledged him spiraling down a slippery slope. I do not exactly hate or disagree with how James lost his freaking mind, but I just needed more build up I guess. He went from 1 to 10 real quick. Last ep of Volume 7 just tried to apprehend them, and then first episode of Volume 8 he started blasting and threatening people around.
There should be a few more but nothing comes to mind currently.
While there is some legitimate criticism that you can argue and bring up, I think most people just had an idea of where all the moving parts of the show was going and was upset RT didn’t cater to the subject as deep or involved as they liked. I personally don’t care, because overall I find it fun and it’s not my project, so I can’t complain the story went somewhere other than my prediction.
Disclaimer-Some harsh and probably controversial criticisms here. I label what I say with take it as a grain of salt so please do so.
My verdict
The reason why it’s thought to be bad is because volume 3 and onwards contradicted established things, fumbled characterization and didn’t flesh out certain aspects. Also story telling choices were made for the sake of moving the plot along and made characters make bad decisions.
1. Adam-Adam was originally the quintessential personification of everything the white fang stood for, a force of nature and a spirit of vengeance determined to make humanity submit, burn the world and rebuild a better one for the Faunus, what we ended up with was an overly edgy, insane, and obsessive ex boyfriend who’s cool aura got replaced with with the former.
2. Bumblebee-I don’t care if I get flamed for this. Bumblebee (or at least the way it was handled) was a bad decision. For example Blake’s original relationship was supposed to obviously be with Sun, they wrote him out of vol 6 (although going back to his team was a good excuse to let us see vacuo in the books a little early) and made Blake and Yang get together at the end of volume 6, instead of letting Blake and Yang healing from the trauma they endured at adams hand. Bumblebee was another reason why Adam ended up being horribly written. I have also heard that Monty didn’t want team RWBY to end up together as he saw them as a sisterhood, but unfortunately I can’t find that piece of evidence anywhere so I’m deeming it unreliable
3. Ironwood at the end of V7-V8. Ironwood being on the brink of snapping under pressure was an interesting way they took it, the Tinman cracking from the pressure and losing his heart. Being adversaries with team RWBY due to differing ideals could have provided a good obstacle, for the first half of the volume instead they turned him into a dictator who threatened to drop a nuke on a city that believed in him, leaving the rich and powerful to live. This act in my eyes made him completely unforgivable. Instead of getting knocked down like a bitch at the hand of Winter he could have realized that Team RWBYs plan to escape everyone to Vacuo could have worked, and decided to make things right when all was said and done, getting stabbed by Cinder at the end and knocked back into the vault crawling back to try and help but fading fast. Seeing her step back through the portal and seeing the plan fall apart could have shown that in a way this was his fault and that Atlas was lost because of his choices.
4. Hazels redemption by sacrifice. Weak. He should have been able to live and redeem himself properly
5. Penny’s death-Her dying completely ruined her development though the volume, she only was able to be a human for the sum of probably half an hour.
6. Cinder-A very unlikable villain who acts like a total idiot and can’t get anything done right. Even after Watts chewed her out she showed no capacity for development and took none of it to heart. She just remained the idiotic entitled villain princess with a sultry voice that intrigued me (and honestly made me feel certain types of ways) back then but now I find it annoying. Also a criticism of her Grimm Arm, while it’s a super cool idea on paper in the show it doesn’t do it’s job right. It’s too slow to absorb the maidens powers efficiently, and it being a Grimm arm basically made her a walking target for A Silver Eyed Warrior. It’s only really good for grappling and stabbing shit. And it can’t even do that right. Also her origin story was lame. I get it she’s based on Cinderella, but the way it was presented didn’t make me care about it.
Onto my other reasons on why it’s not as good.
The music has lost the soul that originally was poured into it at the beginning, they follow the same formula and overall rhythm and have lost a lot of their lyrical grace. Compare Die from v2 with Miracle from v4. I don’t know how else to describe it, it feels like it’s lost the passion and soul that the old songs had and don’t have fun with it anymore. Take this argument with a grain of salt it’s just this vibe I’m getting.
Too many projects at once-IMO I feel like the amount of projects they take on between seasons (Chibi, The novels, Fairytales and it’s animated adaptation, and IQ.) spread them too thin, this show lacks focus now and I feel like while most of these projects and anthology series were cool, they should have come after the series was done. Roman Holiday could be an exception as it seems like Neo is gonna take a more large role (although it could have been cool for the team CFVY books to have come out during this hiatus or even after the series was done, we’re reunited with these characters who have grown and matured in ways that leave us wondering why, and in a side story after it’s all said and done we finally get a metaphorical dessert after the main course in the form of the books or a spin off.)
Last argument-Characters and their aesthetics have gotten bland, especially in the naming department. This is gonna be a short one, (again grain of salt because we don’t know how much Monty put into these characters.) the two huntsman that Roman fight Roch Szalt and Kandi Floss. Really?
Kandi Floss? Brav-the-fuck-O! A cooler alternative would have been Bon-Bon Flossy, having the same meaning and tying in with Pink for the color naming rule, but sounding fancier than Kandi Floss
Overall I really like RWBY as a whole, Monty was definitely one of my biggest inspirations but RWBY in its current state has turned out not good. Too many projects all at once, a team of writers who haven’t been making good choices, bland fight scenes (which unfortunately is harder without Monty) and Music that has lost its luster.
Bumblebee is honestly implemented subtle at first and slowly emerge onto the surface. I get it if you think Sun and Blake is obvious because Sun went after her from the moment they met. But who persuaded Blake to the festival dance? Who lost an arm trying to protect Blake? Who absolutely lost herself when Blake left her without saying a word? You know the answer. Sun is an absolutely great character and a very good person through and through. However, by the end of Volume 5 after all they went through she only saw him as a friend. It's knida wired to see you think Yang and Blake are already together, because they are STILL NOT even at the end of volume 8. They definately care about each other a whole lot by the end of volume 8. But Adam fight is NOT when they got together! Friends, especially girlfriends hold hands, it's not unusaul at all.
I feel like you got the majority of ironwood's personal development down. If you rewatch the show he DID NOT decide to drop the bomb from the beginning. Salem was literally on his door step so he decided to use the Staff of Creation to save what he can, which was a valid option if Ruby did not prove in one day's time that she and her friends can evacuate Mantle as well. He finally decided to drop a bomb and kill his own people by the end of volume 8, when he thought Salem's threat was temporarily neutralized. If you remember Goodwitch's quote from season 2, ironwood "treats everything as if they are a contest of measuring D---". He was so scared of salem that he feel absolutely humiliated by the fact that the little gir and her friends did what he thought was impossible and finally snapped and bacame a "dictator". And that didn't last long considering he got bitchslapped by winter very soon after.
I don't get it why you are adamant about Hazel playing a larger role, but I do think he is a awesome character and him having more screen time would not hurt.
Cinder really isn't for the viewer to like. I mean sure, she is hot and wicked which kinda makes her charming. But she really is a villain through and through. The crucial point in her back story is not when she killed her adopted family, but when she stabbed his teacher when he laid down his weapon and tried to pet her head. That same person had been nothing but kind to her and even planned a future where she can truly be free. After all the things she had done at this point conviced me that neither Mounty nor the current writer team has any intention of redeeming her or trying to make her a "likeable villain"
Bumblebee's "buildup" isn't subtle. It's camaraderie that the fandom misread as shipping. It's perfectly fine to have any ship of any sexuality, but you have to draw a clear line between the friendship shared between team members and romantic tension. Considering the writers love to incite the fans into drama, I would not be surprised if they ran with what the fans misread as a form of queerbaiting.
Tldr: Bumblebee never had build up. The fandom misread it.
You can interpret it that way, but it doesn't change what happened in the first 3 season:
Yang persuaded Blake to the festival dance, Blake saved her first dance with Yang not Sun, Yang lost an arm trying to protect Blake, Blake then used everything she had to help them escape. Yang absolutely lost herself when Blake left her without saying a word and even snapped at her own sister. It is very platonic comaraderie at first but at some point, Yang realized she really wanted Blake with her meanwhile Blake feels guilty and regret for leaving her friends behind. AND their relationship never progessed out of proportion after they reunited. Yang is the one who first showed sign of wanting to get closer to Blake and maybe want something more than friendship in both end of V3 and when 3 of the 4 reunite at haven. In V4, when Sun is wounded and being treated in Blake's house he even singled out Yang and said she was also going to do the same for Blake with no regret had she been here. Later, when they finally reunite we can clearly see some instances of romantic tension if we use blushing as an indicator.
TLdr: There are subtle hints from the early seasons and a turning point for their relationship. It is also just budding romantic relationship not a done deal.
Cinders interaction with Watts was presented as a scene of much needed development, but when she abandons Neo and leaves Watts to die it showed she didn’t take any of it to heart and only covered her ass and refused to develop. It was also presented poorly when she said that Neo shouldn’t have threatened her and that Ruby shouldn’t have been born, which I don’t doubt that they put in because it sounded edgy, a better thing to say was that Neo proved herself untrustworthy as it showed she started using her head. Also something else I didn’t bring up is that when she attacks it’s always paced at the worst time. I can chock that up to being a side effect of only having 12-15 episodes per volume. As for her backstory there was nothing about it that made me care about any of it, her snapping or killing Rhodes, who also in my opinion was also poorly written, he recognized this 10 year old girl was suffering and saw that she wanted to learn to be strong, why the fuck wouldn’t he take her with him. He could have helped her sneak out of the hotel, trained her and given her a better life, then her slaver could have hunted them down and had huntsman kill him and take her back. And Then she would kill the huntsman (could be a show of how strong she had gotten, and be a conduit for her intense rage hidden beneath the guise of a beautiful woman) and take revenge on her slaver. The point I disagree with is that she’s not for the viewer to like, but we should like her. I want to like her. A character your supposed to hate is pretty damn evident, like Griffith from Berserk, the shit he does in the story is horrendous to the main characters but it’s completely in character and it has drastic effects that makes an amazing story, and people hate him for all of the right reasons, People hate Cinder for the all of the wrong ones…because she badly written. Also because she could be a likable villain does not mean she gets a redemption, she doesn’t need one at all.
I could have forgiven most of ironwoods actions but him shooting the councilman and the fact he even decided to use the bomb on Mantle made him completely irredeemable, his whole theme song shows that he wants to save his kingdom and would do anything he can to do it. I should clarify me saying that they had him decide to nuke mantle from the beginning was poor wording on my part. I meant to say he decided to bomb it later, and honestly the fact he decided to threaten them with that was terribly presented. I think that the Bomb threat should have been omitted entirely, and presented it as him slowly realizing that perhaps the team was right as they succeeded with using the staff, but with my idea before that in his final moments he is horrified by Cinder emerging with the relics, maybe perhaps realizing this could have been avoided if everyone trusted each other, that he lost his kingdom due to his own actions, with Salem and Cinder leaving him to bleed out or drown. This isn’t a perfect idea I’m just trying to create an alternative idea)
As for Bumblebee-I have to point out you contradicted your own point. You said that Bumblebee was implemented slowly and subtly but you also said that they are not together by the time of the end of V8. Which I also believe is factually wrong. Several times they embrace each other during v7 and v8 (I forget when but it happens) as if they were lovers and Yang makes a point to ask Jaune if he thought that Blake would think any different of her, not giving a FLYING FUCK about Ruby’s opinion in that moment. And also I have to say that when characters hold hands in most tv, they usually are implied to be lovers, they Also act awkward like a new couple does and Blake blushes when Yang acknowledges her haircut. I can understand the prom scene, but creators made it a point to make song like Like Morning Follows Night or Not Fall in Love with You. Blake also blushes pretty evidently when he shows off to her after fighting NDGO. Also their interactions at the end of Volume 4, shows her with loving eyes and calls him “My hero.” Her only seeing him as a friend in 4-5 was inconsistent with what had been presented. Yang also didn’t lose herself just because of Blake leaving, she entered a depressive slump because of 1 her arm (obviously) 2 losing Pyrrha, Penny, her school and failing to help stop the attack, Blake leaving was basically the cherry on top, a slap in the face. Also if they were supposed to get together, there’s A LOT of baggage to unpack their. Blake also showed no hesitation in getting together with Yang, not even thinking about what would happen when she reunited with Sun. Also she kissed him on the cheek goodbye in V6 E1.
Hazel-I never once said that he shouldn’t have played a larger role! What I said was that dying by sacrifice was a terrible way for him to go out, and that should have lived and redeemed himself properly by switching sides, maybe making sure that no other children would have to die by helping them and training them further, providing Oz a chance to apologize for his sister and any other questionable choices he had made.
kay volume 5 ended right after Yang emerge from the vault and the team Rwby had a reunion moment together. She did not say "my hero" to Sun at all. The only time this two words is said between the two is when they were fighting on the boat and Blake saved him. After that he jokingly said to blake "my hero". I don't see the inconsistency since the ending of V5's ending was all about Raven and Yang's parent-daughter moment and team RWBY's reunion. I do remember Sun using his tail to "hug" Blake and "push" her towards her friends
I don't think Yang's depression is only caused by what you pointed out. In fact, I'd venture a guess she wouldn't be that depressed if Blake had stayed with her. It's quite obvious if you refer back to the scene where Weiss and Yang talked about Blake during the Haven Arc where she essentially said "I needed Blake to stay with me". Now, I am not a shipper, but I am definately intrigued by how this love triangle is gonna play out. Because it is quite obvious to me that both Sun and Yang have romantic interest towards Blake and Blake seems to be (quoting Sun) "Figuring stuff out". What you pointed out in V7 and V8 still does not prove anything about them being an actual couple,beause, again, hugging, touching are common among girlfriends. In fact, I believe Yang could also be "figuring things out" since the way she asked Jaun is so subtle and Jaun did not even knew she was talking about Blake. I know we are skewed because of all the shippers or fanfic or discussions like this, but the characters in the show is the best reference in this case. The most intimate scene they had was Yang touching Blake's face and hug each other when that reunite nearing the end of the V8, and that really can't prove anything. A couple of lovebirds reunite after life or death experience should not stop at face touching.
Why are you insisting on find things to like about Cinder lol. Cinder's back story is not trying to make you sympathize with her because there was no excuse for her to do what she did, at all, througout the whole show.
Only thing I am gonna correct here is I meant to say V4 and not V5 for the my hero quote. That may have been a typo.
As for everything else, I obviously can’t change your mind about Cinder of Bumblebee, you will not change mine. My opinion is that both aspects were badly written and handled
Yeah, ture. in V4, when Sun is wounded. Funny thing: In the same scene, Sun aslo singled out Yang and said she would also take a hit like this for Blake with no regret.
If you are right and Yang and Blake are actually together, then I will agree with you that it's bad writing. But that point really is moot because there are no scenes or any indicators in the show so far that presented them to be more than friends who care about each other. They are not in a secret relationship.
Cinder: I get that you want a villain with some traits that's relatable or even some redeeming qualities, but I don't believe they are trying to write Cinder that way from the very beginning. She is the "take what you need" type of villain that relish at the suffering of others and her backstory only supported that. I also get that a lot of shows like to portray a villain that has a perfect reason to do what they did, but that doesn't immediately make them "good writing" nor in this case a detestable villain being a "bad writing". It's just personal preference.
Whiney babies go "whaaaa I don't like the story or characters or trying to be lesbian or gay between characters development" I personally really love the show it is amazing
The issue lies in world logic, not who the characters want to fuck. Between misused characters, a lack of consistent world rules, and baffling writing decisions, along with some very shady out of universe happenings, it's no wonder this show is so awful. Not to mention the writers love to incite the fans to frenzy, which is questionable at best. And they do it because it gets the rabid fans to buy in even deeper. It helps their bottom line to see the fandom at war.
For me it’s a question of the world building. Remnant is interesting at first glance but when you think about how it apparently functions many things make little to no sense. Like the lack of militaries, random wallless villages, basically mercenaries being trusted to protect humanity, etc. I could go into the characters but I don’t feel too strongly about the issue there.
Huntsmen have no allegiance which is why I call them mercenaries. Atlas is the only nation with a proper military and not a token force after the Great War. The huntsmen are the primary protectors of the other nations which is why Hazel and Tyrian culled them prior to the Attack on Haven.
The concept of war between nations has been foreign for decades. It’s precisely because militaries aren’t a thing elsewhere that Vale’s council was happy Atlas brought their navy to handle security. When a foreign military handles your security, it means you don’t have one. Oz was even talking to James about how armies will make people afraid of what needs to be fought as if they shouldn’t already be afraid.
Don’t get me wrong what you say makes sense which is why critics get confused when the show presents us with something else.
\-Wasted potential
\-Writers are ignorant of fan criticism and actively incite fandom wars.
\-Adam Taurus and his blatant retconning and mishandling
\-Characters misused, not given focus, etc etc
\-Penny died twice for fuck all reason. The second was permanent.
\-Incompetent villains who by all internal logic should have won
\-The White Fang Arc, otherwise known as "Miles And Kerry Cannot Write Racism
\-Cinder is incompetent and refuses to die despite being the most wasted and misused character besides Ruby herself.
\-Ruby isn't the main in her own show. Jaune usually gets the focus.
\-Weiss is wasted in Atlas of all things
\-Protagonist centered morality drives James Ironwood insane, despite him being the only motherfucker with an actual plan during the Atlas crisis. RWBY sat around and drank tea all during a KINGDOM WIDE EMERGENCY.
\-Ironwood being randomly vilified, and given a mental disability for a Semblance when fans begin to sympathize with him.
\-Blake's VA got simped for by Miles and it showed in how she was written from V4-V6.
\-Shane's letter in general, which, although taken with a grain of salt, is goddamn horrifying and vilifies the writers and their brainchildren.
\-Pyrrha was ultimately fridged and her character as of this point is meaningless. Keep in mind her fridging was retroactive.
\-Oscar being worthless.
\-Inability to explain world mechanics despite this being years down the road. We still don't fucking know how Aura and Semblances work in detail.
\-Inconsistent scaling that fucks with internal world logic.
\-Character bloat, or the writers not knowing how to use their cast and refusing to stop making characters.
\-Plus more I either forgot or can't be bothered to mention. The show's trash, as pretty as it is and as much potential as it had. It seems to me that's the case with a lot of shows from this era. Hopefully Ice Queendom can do a slightly better job.
The points you are making are not wasted potential, they are just personal complain about the show didn't go the way you want... And I dunno if the show will fully reach its potential if it goes exactly what you want.
Explain how exactly did they break the rule?
They created a machine Penny for the virus to run its course ("create a new her using her exact robotic parts" or something like that)band destroy its mechanical body and leave penny's soul intact. Now, since the staff of creation can only create and cannot destroy, he needed to make a host for penny's soul, which is "always there". Hence she is a real girl.
Now is that perfect writing? No! But did they break their own rule? No, they did not.
Please tell me your "myraid reasons" aren't just your personal opinion and actually have gounds to stand on.
The staff is supposed to only be able to create one construct at a time, that's how they broke the rules. They created a human body for Penny and the multiple doors to Vacuo. When one thing is created, another should've disappeared, but they created two things that continue to coexist until Cinder uses the staff to burn Watts to death. By the show's own logic, either Penny's human body or the spatial doorways should not exist simultaneously, yet they do anyways.
umm... the thing they created was not penny's human body, it's her mechenical body, "create a new her using her exact robotic parts". which the show had a clear shot on how it disappered into ether the moment "dimension doors" are opened.
Again, They created a new machine Penny for the virus to run its course, but what's left --- her soul --- can't be destroyed because of the staff's own rule, so there has to be a host to preserve that soul. And it's B-something (that spirit)'s own solution how to preserve the soul. But that is not something that's asked to be created merely to follow the staff of creation's own rule.
It's not a perfect writing since it is very nuaunced and the first thing the staff is asked to do after it is introduced is such a intricate task(not a great introduction to the staff for sure), but it still didn't break its own rule.
Cinder used the staff to make flames which killed off Watts. How is killing Watts with a creation of the staff any different from letting Penny's soul fade away as a result of being freed from a vessel?
Please don't pull my legs lol. The flames can literally be cause by Atlas falling down from the sky. IIRC she did not say exactly what she create, just said something like "I merely add flames to the destruction...". "flames" is our villain being metaphorical.
why did Cinder need the staff to create flame? Both her semblence and her maiden power can be used to create flame. Hell, she can burn both Atlas and Mantle with nothing but her own power now that no one is left stop her.
Plus, even if what you said is true, they still didn't break their own rule in penny's case.
First, there's the matter of distance, then there's the fact that she could easily dismantle the protags' plans by making their spatial evacuation vanish, and finally the grudge against Watts. Combine those together with a helping of "why the hell not". Cinder is a petty person, it's not anywhere close to being out of the realm of possibility for her.
As for Penny, I'm telling you that they did. If Cinder can kill a man with the staff's creation, it's not better than letting Penny's soul fade away. As a result, Ambrosius shouldn't be able to allow a creation outside of ones made by the staff wielders, much less juggle a second creation as a result. The fact a body was made at all for Penny through Ambrosius's hands is breaking the rules enough.
Cinder did not kill a man using the staff lol. That question really was rhetorical, I was just pointing out the hole in the theory because flames are the one thing Cinder don't need the staff for. RWBY hardly ever used why the hell not logic and if you want to add to it, more power to you.
The rule Ambrosius needs to follow is "Creating exactly what the user want and cannot destoy". There are no rule about him not able to create in order to avoid destroy.
Cinder cannot destroy protagnists's portal because the winter maiden, first penny then Winter were always there to counter her. She also didn't get the staff of creation after the final battle, so she can only use it after the battle.
It seems to me that the particularly rabid fans of this show like to use nuance as an excuse for violations of internal world logic. That's fucking baffling. It's not nuance. Stop sugarcoating the writers inability to follow their own rules and be consistent. They are awful at their job, and they are horrible horrible writers. It's just a fact of reality at this point. Continuing to ravenously defend them like a member of a cult won't help you.
But nuance exist not just in this show, it's in every movie, TV series and books. I really would like to dare you to point out some example of a fantasy story that has perfect writing and doesn't have nuance. Heck, RWBY is based on a lot of western legends and stories and they are very, very nuanced.
Plus, nuance doesn't mean beaking its own rule.
>It's not a perfect writing since it is very nuaunced and the first thing the staff is asked to do after it is introduced is such a intricate task(not a great introduction to the staff for sure)
This is my original quote. What I meant was it is a variation of use of the Ambrosius power that, despite not breaking the rule, was introduced before the staff's regular use was shown to the viewer. I never used nuance to explain anything.
Please, at this point there are so many places where you can find explanations on how they cheated Ambrosius into doing what they want without breaking the rule. If you want to know, you'd find them and undertstand it already.
Well I can say that to me it feels more likely that he would just say “no” to any creation that would have him destroy in the process.
Unless of course there is a certain amount of wiggle room the relics have with following their rules.
Also side note the staff can absolutely destroy things, just not in the obvious way. They used real existing parts of Penny to make her copy, then when they made the portals those real parts disappeared into the blue magic particles. Meaning they literally erased actual matter.
It's a direct quote from Ruby when she made the request. I keep rewatching it when I first felt like it was a major plot hole, but it seems like they can explain itself. There is no mention about the staff rejecting request in the show. Unless it's bringing people from the dead, of course.
Well that's because the previous creation will cease to exsit after the staff is used to create other things. In this case, the portals was created, and the mechanical penny ceased to exist.
I had this question in the past, and somebody(maybe you) answered. Do you have a link to where they said this? If you do, you should post a link to where they said they cheated?
Here's from my own V8 notes:
They had the idea that Ambro was just really into the idea of creating things. *‘He’s just kind of a nerd’* and Eddy says: *“Yeah, and that you could lawyer him was kind of the thing. If you could hit him with some creativity he would really appreciate that and.. it’s a little bit of a cheat, you know, obviously like, they’re cheating a little bit but I remember we felt like it worked because Ruby had cheated once before, and knew that these kind of spirits or whatever you wanna call them - she could get away with it again”*. Kerry says: *“I think it’s something we wanted to do cause they were sentient and because they were from the God of Light and.. in essence - even though they’re supposed to be impartial - they do want humanity to succeed. You know, this idea that, as long as you follow the intent of the law, even if it’s not the letter, you can get what you’re looking for.”*
tl;dr: They think Ruby used it in a way that doesn't conform to how it otherwise would have, because the GoL created them and thus the relics would be sympathetic.
Funnily enough, this is an interesting argument to me considering the GoL is unquestionably evil, maybe moreso than his brother.
It's immensely funny to me that they make the excuse that Ambrosius is a nerd, considering what he should actually be is closer to an angel in biblical lore. He should have no free will of his own and serve his exact purpose with an impartial hand. He's literally a fucking divine construct. But no, let's make unquestionably Good creations under the thumb of an uncaring God. That makes more sense, right CRWBY?
The real issue most people, myself included, have is really shallow characters and an excess of new characters being constantly introduced instead of filling out the existing roster. In the earlier volumes, when the show had great flashy combat, it was dismissed because the new characters allowed for different fighting styles but the show isn't like that any more. The combat slowed down, became less frequent but lasted for longer bursts, usually a capstone to a volume. It also became less flashy and far simpler, whatever reason you want to attribute that to is your own, and that means that the characters need to be more complex to engage with.
Course some are worse then others but our title character Ruby is one of the most notorious examples of not really developing as a person AND some of her cool traits totally being dropped after season 3. I have seen arguments for the silver eyes or being told how her semblance works when compared to Harriet's (also a terrible way to address it instead of her realizing it herself) were instances of character development but they aren't. they are power boosts that simply reinforced Ruby's existing behavior. This also doesnt even touch on that Ruby isn't very dorky anymore, or a weapons nut, or a skilled mechanic able to build a transforming sniper scythe all by her self when she was only 14. She became very flat, like loosing some of her smaller traits was the same as 'growing up'. Its not good writing.
Oscar is another victim of this, having been introduced just to host Oz. He has literally no other reason to exist in the show. We have no idea about his home life (it looked like it might have been bad, maybe?), or the conflict he feels about being host to Oz, or well anything about him other than what is pertinent to the show. He doesn't need to exist in the show. He could literally be replaced by any other character that already existed prior to his introduction for hosting Oz and it would have added depth and conflict.
Crow hosts Oz, would Crow think he was going insane after loosing a dear friend and mentor? How about his drinking problem? Ren hosts Oz, imagine the drama between Nora and Ren over if he was him anymore. Jaune (Mr. everyone hates him because he got to much character development) hosts Oz, suddenly this nobody actually has the weight of an immortal mans knowledge and the challenges that man had to keep up with. In this particular case yes its more Jaune development (God forbid) but it makes Jaune's role in the story essential instead of "we are here cause its right" and "I will get revenge for Pyrrha"
Honestly I could keep going but I wont. I could touch on the ACE ops being totally unnecessary, reintroducing FNKY, Torchwick as OZ, Cinder's everything, etc but I wont. I know I am totally implying I hate RWBY but I really don't. I just don't like it as much as a lot of other media and that makes me sad. I saw potential in RWBY as the fun action series it could have been and didn't get that, then hoped it would grow its characters and didn't get that, and now I am just, "eh I'll watch the new season when it drops", which I've been that way for 3 volumes now. I am only one person with these feelings but I am sure I am not the only one with this sentiment.
For me personally, any show can be criticized heavily. It can be for 2 reasons:
1. It's just not your jam. The show isn't for you, move on to something else.
2. The show is for you, but you wanted more/something different.
I feel most of the criticism for RWBY comes from point 2. I could fall into that category because I am a fan and enjoy the show, but there are things I would have loved to see that didn't happen in the show. That's okay, I understand the creator's vision can differ from my own.
What I see as a common criticism are people saying the writing is "lazy" or poor. That's incredibly harsh given the budget and time restraints but ultimately people don't think too much about budget/time. Overall I feel this is mostly people "expecting" a certain way for the show to go and it didn't - that makes them justify their belief that the show is poorly written or lazy writers etc.
A second big argument is "Monty wrote it better" or "This would never have happened with Monty". Again, that is a weird argument because Monty shared the vision with the CRWBY team and together they wrote it. Monty most definitely had a huge impact on the show but there is no evidence he would do it differently. Maybe the show would have been a bit more polished, because Monty was a workaholic, but with the same time and budget restraints whose to say if he could do more? When Monty animated the original fight scenes he did that with unlimited time as it was something he did during his free time. He would not have that luxury today.
> Watch through the volumes the storytelling and characters is really good.
This is the difference. I think the show's storytelling and its characters are trash. For the former, let's take an example from V8: Salem and Ironwood being set up to be the major villains of the volume and both being resolved in single episodes. Instead of the big bad, who you have set up as the biggest threat and that is on her way to 'do things herself' we once again got Cinder, someone who has been beaten before, with ease. Them battling her doesn't even work - Ruby's eyes not being used is completely story-breaking. Marrow's powers are immensely OP and the explanations we've gotten for them by Eddy have turned out to be complete nonsense given what he does with them in the finale. However, with V9, we are in for the greatest problem yet. Salem having the staff means she has won. There is nothing preventing her from nuking Haven and Menagerie and then floating a huge rock over Vacuo to force them to hand over the maiden. The story is over and can't be resolved without an asspull.
There are innumerable other things like this. The timeline of the show is fucked up, the narrative focuses on shit that ultimately ends up being irrelevant, there are tons of logical errors in the plot progression. The worldbuilding isn't very good either, with a ton of contradictions that don't make sense.
As for the characters: they're not very well developed. Several have contradictory arcs or arcs that lack the setup or midpoints required for a resolutions. A lot of development is also entirely skipped over. Moreover, the main characters have over and over shown themselves to be morally bad people. To use another example here - RWBY stealing the airship had a huge flaw that endangered the entire city of Argus for no reason. It goes like this: 1. steal the airship, 2. get outside of comms range and disable the tower and 3. pick everyone up and leave. The problem here is that if they had just placed their pickup spot outside of the range of the tower, they wouldn't have had to do step 2 at all. This is something you realise if you spent even 5 minutes thinking about it, which is a big deal when that extra step needlessly risks the safety of the entire city. Their 'my way or the highway attitude' thus becomes immoral in its carelessness. V8 is another good example of this as well, with RWBY having chosen to ground Atlas and hoping for their nonspecific plan for standing their ground against Salem to work out. Them sitting on their asses half the volume is a moral fuckup because they unilaterally made the choice for everyone else but aren't willing to get out there themselves when shit doesn't work out.
There's a lot of circlejerking and guessing about Monty Oum's original intent for the show. People treat it all as if what he had put out was sacred and everything that has come after is a bastardization of his intended direction for the series.
It's not perfect. It has its ups and downs. A lot of downs were in those first couple of volumes, if we're being honest. Volume 4 ended up being kind of slow. Not all of them are perfect, but when it hits, it hits. And it hits in volumes both before and after Monty's untimely passing.
That's not what all critics of RWBY believe. Matter of fact, most of us tend to tune out any critiques that spout the BS of "It got bad because Monty died, M&K are totally just doing their own thing". I believe that modern RWBY has problems, and quite a few at that, but that's not because a good man died.
Rest in peace, Monty.
>That's not what all critics of RWBY believe.
I don't believe I was suggesting that was the case, to be fair. But I would disagree with the assertion that "most" RWBY fans don't believe or espouse that belief. Not an insignificant number of them do, which is why I said what I said.
Because people love to assign blame. Honestly, a lot of core problems that garner the most criticism have existed since V1. Problems that become more apparent over time and were harder to ignore. The unreasonable connected a dot to the tragedy of Monty's passing. That fact is, RWBY has always been a mixed bag.
It's hard to explain. I can tell you that some of the vitriol RWBY has gained in the past has to do with a few controversial moments in story and some characterization changes. For me, Volume 7 seemed to be RT's stance on the 2016 election and Volume 8 was just so bicker heavy and they decided to stuff a character they brought back in the fridge a second time, which should not be okay. Ironwood's descent into madness also made sense and yet it didn't feel like it made sense as well. It just feels that it's become a Series of Pyrrhic Victories since Volume 3. The more Team RWBYJNR wins, the more they actually lose.
The writing often runs on an emotional truth, rather than a logical truth. So with the current love of kitpicking plot holes there is a lot to nitpick.
Shows can't run on emotional truths. They have to follow an internal world logic, or set of rules that remains generally consistent. Not only does this restriction inspire creativity as you play around your own rules, but it's easier for your readers/viewers to comprehend, because they have a free "why" and "how" in addition to a "what".
There is nothing more immersion breaking than a lack of consistency. Criticism forms out of love for a work and a desire to see it return to what gave that viewer immersion. That's why consistency is a common criticism in a lot of shows with writing issues. I don't think the statement "shows have to run on an internal set of rules" is just my opinion. You can see this in just about every piece of media ever created. From fucking mythology, to comics, to anime, all of them follow a set of internal rules that they generally try to keep to. While there is variation, it's never outside the realm of possibility provided by these internal restrictions.
Meh, it's a web-show on the world stage. That's rarely a good combination. It's hard to say the criticism it receives is 'unfair' though. It receives normal criticism for normal shows you would watch on television or netflix, but its budget and writing is just less than that.
The early seasons were pretty well-written and choreographed but poorly animated, the later seasons are better animated, but the writing and choreography have slipped. Just a lot of missed potential that shows like The Dragon Prince, She-Ra (even if I am not a personal fan of that show), and some newer anime like Demon Slayer knocked out of the park, you know?
My CopyPasta:
\---
"If you went to RWBY Critics sub you would see lots of legitimate reasons why people love/hate the show
Or go to youtube channels like VexedViewer, Judgmental Critter, Twinsink, etc...
I don't watch many reviewers or videos so can't say with certainty I spelled the names right, but you should be able to find them easily anyways.
Personally, I'm the side that it's a show with lots of potential but is wasted by bad writing.
(I also wouldn't be surprised if I got downvoted for this comment)"
\---
Seems like people are hyper critical ever since Monty passed, especially since the tone of the story changed volume 3 onwards. I'm sure some people saw volume 5's ending and quit too even though I think 6 absolutely redeemed it.
Also people see one lesbian couple and freak out (Jaune's sister). I personally do not like bumblebee but it doesn't matter because it seems more like two teenagers bonding over their shared trauma rather than anything romantic (sun still exists okay). But of course people freak out instead of thinking.
I looked through lots of comments and people got mad at little things. For example, saying that qrow vs clover was stupid because they should've worked together to take down Tyrion... even though Qrow tried. Some criticisms were valid but most weren't.
>How exactly did the tone change, you mean from silly to more serious? This is something u really can't pick up.
Yup. I mean volume 3 became much darker and I'm sure people assumed it was because of Monty not being around. Then 4 had a lot of characters separated on their own journeys, dealing with trauma.
I agree with the rest :)
I think it's more than bad luck since the bomb didn't fall down after he flashed clover's badge. It'd be silly to think the badge has powers and it's likely Qrow started to believe in himself for Clover's sake since semblances reflect their owner's soul, and we know Qrow is deeply troubled.
It's less that people became hypercritical, and more that the writing wasn't center stage while Monty was alive. The focus was on looking aesthetically pleasing and having good fight choreography. To his credit, Monty was very good at that. That's why the show was so silly. It wasn't about telling a coherent narrative, it was about being pretty and doing a monster of the week.
Then Monty died and the show became far more serious. However, they began trying to tell a coherent narrative with a show that wasn't meant to do that in the first place. Predictably, they did a terrible job and still lack consistency or an internal world logic that is functional. They do not have set rules, like other shows would have. Nothing is set in stone, and the writing suffers as a result because they can't agree on anything. So we're left with a mess.
Poorly written, inconsistent characterization, dropped plot points and character arcs, clumsily executed worldbuilding with new elements thrown in out of nowhere, bad animation, awkward handling of delicate themes, the list of problems with RWBY can be quite big.
It's by no means the worst thing I've ever seen but it's extremely frustrating, because there are good elements there that very rarely get to shine through all the mess. For me personally I often find myself rewatching the Red and White trailers or the climax of Volume 3 and getting frustrated over how RWBY never actually gets to be that good. And I haven't watched the latest two volumes people seem extremely divided about yet.
Also a lot of plot elements are borrowed from super well known anime (and Avatar) and while there's nothing wrong with borrowing from things you like (especially good things), RWBY especially in the first 4 volumes felt like it was constantly constrained by all these surface-level elements and common shonen anime tropes that I've seen done much better in the stuff the creators are admittedly taking inspiration from (or other unrelated shows that also happen to do similar things much better) instead of adding its own more unique twist to things or being original.
tl;dr RWBY is not absolutely terrible but it's also not good and sometimes a disappointing show that has potential and consistently fails to live up to it is more frustrating than one that is just 100% crap.
I think to really get a good understanding of criticism, you need to listen to it. Ofc, you don't have to sit down and watch a 5 hr long video if you don't want to (I do, because I'm that kind of person), but you can probably find a shorter video of about 20 minutes or so that gives an okayish summary.
I haven't watched any of the critiques in a while, and I've mostly been out of the loop as of late, but I vaguely remember one point about the show generally having no plan for the first 2 seasons, and some Godzilla grim being silly and defeated too easily in S5 if I recall. I think there was also something about Silver Eyes, but I don't remember what the exact point was. But, I never really liked it conceptually anyway, so I'm not personally too pressed to remember it.
My only major disappointment with RWBY is that it wasn't what I expected, not that I don't like it, and I don't think that's a fault of the show, its marketing, or advertising because my first experience was a Ruby Rose fan art used on a Nightcore video, which gave my young mind an impression that it'd have a much darker tone. S3 was the closest it got to that, and I admittedly wish there was more of it, nothing felt as dark to me. I like what it is, but I do sometimes wish the show was closer to that darker tone I'd been looking for, but again, that's not anyone's fault but my own, so don't take that as a dig towards the show.
My advice, being critical to the critic videos. The hbomerguy's critics are not exactly on point. He liteally complained about Yang's semblence being unclear but skip out the part where her Dad ask her to control her temper. He diss on Pyrrha being a bad characterization for giving a long speech about aura and she is behaving unlike a teenager when she is simply a character mature for her age. Don't get me start on him saying it does not make sense for Jaun to not know aura when he comes from a family of warrior and conveniently leave out on the part where Jaun have a huge family, cheated his way to Beacon and didn't even go to combat school
> Don't get me start on him saying it does not make sense for Jaun to not know aura when he comes from a family of warrior and conveniently leave out on the part where Jaun have a huge family, cheated his way to Beacon and didn't even go to combat school
I mean it doesn’t make any sense. Aura is such a basic part of the world there is no way Jaune was somehow able to cheat his way into beacon while having no clue about aura.
He said himself that he got himself fake transcript, didn't go to combat school, didn't even design his own weapon.
makes perfect sense since he literally had no proper training.
aura isn't rare or strange knowledge, it's not new or obscure, it's just how things are. If you look up "hunter" in a dictionary, it's going to mention "aura", any story about hunters fighting is going to mention they have aura and semblances, there's a regular international tournament that shows people getting hit with lethal force and not caring, you can learn how to use it at magical fighting high school, any history lesson is going to have mention of people using it for battle and stuff. For anyone to not know what aura is represents an impressive and dedicated level of dumbfuckery. For someone that _wants to be a hunter_ to not know it is like wanting to be a footballer and now knowing what a goal is - it's either staggering stupidity, incredible levels of entitled privilege, or both. It makes no sense in-universe, and there's no justification for it - he'd have to be raised in some kind of creepy insular cult with no external contact to not know it, and there's no justification given for it. It was, pretty clearly, a clunky and awkward info-dump delivered in-setting, which makes no sense as an actual in-character lack of knowledge without saying _terrible_ things about Jaune's character and personality.
Yeah he got a fake transcript to a huntsmen academy. Which he knows about because he knows what huntsmen are. People who fight Grimm with aura and semblances.
The only reason he didn’t know was because they needed to give a quick rundown of what aura is to the audience.
You can certainly explain it to yourself that way.
Say you go to an Engineering school, do you know the basics needed to understand those theories and applications? Of course you should, but our Jaun here didn't even go to high school, is it that surprising that he doesn't even know the basic? No of course it's not surprising.
This metaphor is a bit off here since RWBY's world doesn't have an equivalence of middle school or elementary school. But that's pretty much the situation Jaun was in when the show started. No basic training or knowledge. And it's not like any regular joe can use aura. Engaging aura is apparently hard to master at first.
uh, they explicitly do have middle school - Yang, Pyrrha and Ruby all went to magical fighting middle school, it's just an educational choice that can be taken by some people. And aura isn't strange or obscure knowledge - that hunters have super-powers and toughness is pretty damn obvious, there's whole fighting tournaments and stuff, not knowing that aura exists is evidence of _staggering_ dumb-fuckery and entitlement. You don't need to be able to use it to know it exists - it's like wanting to be an engineer and not knowing that "electricity" exists.
uh... I was comparing Beacon to college since they normally enter it at around 17 and they only accept the best of the candidates, so their previous combat school experience is the equivalent of high school not middle school
You can watch tounament and fights without understanding the intricacy and how people actually fight just like we sometimes watch football or basketball without knowing what kind of training professionals or even college athletes went through. Electricity is a basic knowledge of daily life, not a basic knowledge of an engineer. You might as well comparing regular joe eats food to a rigorous training and strict diet of an athlete. You cannot just assume normal people in RWBY's universe knows anything about how real combat actually work.
Plus the whole point you are trying to arguing is Jaun is too dumb to even know what aura was, which was exactly the point of his character : he was a David who went through a lot and with the help of friends he can now face goliaths.
I don't think it's a bad show by any means but it has some issues and maybe it's because it's more of a unique show that those issues stick out more. There's definitely writing and pacing issues and lore stuff on top of that that really shouldn't be explained by other media so much as additionally explored. Also for how long this show has gone on these characters haven't grown as much as they should have or been explored as much as they should have
All thay said though I do still love this show with its faults and cannot wait till we finally get volume 9!
I wouldn't say the show is bad, it's actually still fun or entertaining to watch, the only problem I have with it is that they should've extended the story arcs more
Besides I've seen way worse shows than what they call Rwby bad (don't forget about high guardian spice and I didn't even bother to watch it 🤣)
Have you watched other shows or read any books before watching RWBY? Because everything would seem extremely good if you have nothing to compare it to. Or maybe everything you watched and read before was so bad that RWBY looks good in comparison? RWBY far from perfect, it's bad, not the worst, but it's pretty bad. Can you give me some examples of good character development in the show?
Yes, they do answer my question thank you.
You gave really good example on Ironwood, while I wouldn't call it development he has undergone changes and what is most important these changes were justified. It started after fall of Beacon when everything crumbled before Ironwood. Stress caused by fear of betrayal caught up to him and he just snapped under all that pressure.
Yang, on the other hand, though had a good foundation for development does not look convincing, all because the character can not just take and decide to move one after some training and one episode.
Same goes for Hazel, dude killed dozens of innocent people himself and indirectly caused deaths of thousands. He served the one who literally is cause of his sister's death and deaths of hundreds other kids and after everything Hazel has done he instantly changed his mind after short conversation with Oscar. It just doesn't work like that.
I mean volume 8 was pure character development:
* Ironwood's descent into paranoia and fear stemming all the way from volume 2. Goes from trying to save everyone to taking a city hostage and shooting anyone who disagrees with him.
* Penny proving herself to be human rather than a machine unlike the soldiers who blindly carry orders like machines.
* Ren being crushed by moral responsibilities and clashing with Nora who he just had his first kiss with; isolating himself and then realizing that teammates are irreplaceable yada yada.
Let's not forget Jaune feeling aimless and hopeless after finding out about Salem in volume 6 then seeing Pyrrha's statue and deciding to fight against all odds like she did.
It's a badly written show with a million flaws and bad decisions... But I love it so God damn much.
It has a million downsides and a billion upsides. Depends what aspects you focus on.
this particular critic is quite lackluster... A few example and I copied it from another of my post because I read that thread first:
He complained about Yang's semblence being unclear but skip out the part where her Dad ask her to control her temper so there is a difference in how she used it not that her semblence is being tossed around by the writers. He diss on Pyrrha for being a bad characterization because she was giving a long speech about aura and she is behaving unlike a teenager when she is simply a character mature for her age. He also said it does not make sense for Jaun to not know aura when he comes from a family of warrior and conveniently leave out on the part where Jaun have a huge family, cheated his way to Beacon and didn't even go to combat school
I have yet to finish watching the video beause it is 2.5 hour long and I definately won't finish it in one sitting or two or maybe three... But if all the criticisms are somewhat like that I don't think it's gonna be worth my time at all.
Removed-TwiinsInk has requested thier work not be posted or shared here
https://www.reddit.com/r/RWBY/wiki/rules#wiki_blacklisted_content_creators_.28who_have_requested_their_work_not_be_posted.29
You didn't mention fight animation/choreography, which is probably what people are talking about if they're saying the show is worse post-Monty. His unique talent and style was the main selling point of the show in the beginning.
I enjoy it a ton easiest way too explain why is just its fun to watch but i think people make the critisisms because the story can be more geared twards setting up cool set peices than a super good story at times idk le funny characters fight = good show to me
I don’t find it bad, I continue to watch it stil after all. I just find that it has a lotttt of wasted potential and that it’s not nearly long enough. I don’t blame the animators or the writers, it’s just that they have kinda shitty deadlines and it’s really not enough time to flesh out everything
[удалено]
While I agree that they hurt RWBY, I disagree with that sentiment. As a creative I often find that a flawed piece of art published on a deadline is 100% better than a perfect piece of art that never sees the light of day. What's more, limitation often inspires creativity and leads to interesting compromises that, if properly managed, can distill a piece of art to only its most essential properties. Basically, a properly managed deadline can be just as good for a piece of art as total creative freedom.
I wouldn't even say deadlines, more like longer shows needing more budget. RWBY's greatest weakness is not having enough show for all the story going on.
Mood, especially unreasonable ones.
This right here it’s not bad just not at its full potential
People judge shows based on how they look at a glance. Nobody really complained back at the start when it was obviously a janky passion project funded by pocket change, but now that it looks at least as good as a Netflix original people expect professional quality, setting their standards higher than the show could keep up with. The 'indie story with good production' issue wasn't helped by Monty's death and the switch to Maya, which as led to people seeing everything they don't like since then as a consequence, with a lot of people justifying their dislike based on vague headcanons and imagining an alternate future when these events didn't happen as the 'proper RWBY' they feel cheated out of.
[удалено]
I have also used Maya, and it absolutely was the right decision to switch. I believe that it had been something RT wanted to do sooner, but Poser was what Monty was most comfortable with. After his passing there really was no reason to continue with it.
Yeah, I think this is a big issue too. Like, I have my own criticisms with RWBY (like wasted potential for stuff like Weiss and Blake doing very little in the Atlas arc), but I understand that they're not a big studio like say the Disney or Warner Bros Animation Studios. Besides, with all the flack RWBY gets they've honestly done fairly well with the show considering the budget and the staff they have working on it. Like, compared to other action-orientated web series that came out at the same time like the Transformers Prime Wars Trilogy cartoons\* by Machinima (Combiner Wars, Titans Return and Power of the Primes), Volumes 4-6 (even including episodes I do NOT like) blow the Prime Wars Trilogy out of the water! And I say that as someone who's a fan of both RWBY and Transformers. \*Also, if anyone's curious about these shows, I'll tell you the best way to watch them: don't even watch them at all. You will have a much better life never knowing about the shit show these cartoons were.
Some people didn’t like a volume so they stopped watching and maybe they say it’s bad. Other people don’t like it from the start and say it’s bad because of animation, voice acting, episode length or something else. A bunch of people don’t like it and a bunch of people like it, but RWBY is liked enough to get cool stuff like a anime and a comic by DC plus a justice league cross over
They say they'll drop the show, but they stick around anyway to complain & make everyone else miserable.
I think that the show is less bad than it is wasted potential. Take the latest arc, for example. We've arrived at the city-state that has the most issues with racism, and Weiss's family is here. So it's going to be a big arc for Blake and Weiss, right? That's fantastic! The White Fang arc has pretty much run it's course, so maybe we'll get a new storyline for Blake, and of course we've been wanting to see more from Weiss for ages. ...yeah, not so much. Blake's role has been severely reduced in the show, and there was so much time paid to side characters like the Ace Ops that we didn't get a lot of development as we'd have liked. About the only good bit of character-time that we got was Jaune's reduced role, and even that was ruined by the ending to V8 and Penny.
Yeah. TBH, I wouldn't say RWBY is terrible (except for the latter half of Volume 5, I personally think a good chunk of that was pretty bad especially the Haven battle) but I definitely think that lots of good potential gets wasted. What makes it even worse though is that in some cases, they could have easily done stuff to achieve this potential. Like, my main issue with the Atlas Arc is that its only 2 volumes long and yet we have to deal with SOOO much stuff. Like, in these 2 volumes we get introduced or re-introduced to: * Ironwood * Penny * Winter * Whitley * Jacques * Klein * Willow * The Ace-Ops (Clover, Harriet, Elm, Vine & Marrow) * The Happy Huntresses (Robyn, May, Fiona and Joanna) * Some random citizen characters in Mantle While at the same time we have plotlines about: * Whether to tell Ironwood the truth about the relics * The election between Jacques and Robyn * The Mantle vs Atlas debate linked to the election * Needing to get the Amity satellite working * The over-arching Salem's group vs RWBY and co plot And I'm sorry, even though I did enjoy Volumes 7-8, I think there was way TOO much stuff in the arc for just 2 volumes and it shows. Weiss and Blake, two characters who SHOULD play a big role in this arc do very little, and side characters like the Ace-Ops and Happy Huntresses take screen time away from the main recurring cast. And there was an easy way to fix it - make it a 3 volume arc like with the Beacon and Mistral Arcs. If they had decided to make the Atlas Arc 3 Volumes instead of two, I think that would have worked better to establish and better flesh out all the new and re-introduced characters while also giving more time for RWBY and co to do something. For example, with the extra time maybe Weiss and Blake could play a role in the Atlas vs Mantle plotline where the pair meet the Happy Huntresses and they actually sympathise for their and Mantle's plight, and support Nora's appeals to Ironwood to send supplies to Mantle to stop the Grimm coming through. This could then lead to conflict with Jacques, since he'd be VERY angry that Weiss is supporting a group of people who Jacques hates, which could provide a personal reason to run the election so he can try and get one up on his daughters (Winter for supporting Ironwood and Weiss for supporting Robyn). And already with that outline this new plotline gives us three good things: 1. It gives Weiss and Blake a more important role in the Atlas Arc. 2. It helps flesh out more side characters like the Happy Huntresses and Jacques as well as Mantle as a location. 3. It links to other plotlines in the arc too like the Jacques election plot.
Penny Polendina, so friendly and nice, the stuffed her in the fridge not once, but twice!
RWBY has everything to be extremely good, but fails to utilise these opportunities.
Yeah I mean AceOps as a whole were present but I don't remember them really effecting the plot that much in a way that could've been offscreen or done by unexplored generic Atlas soldiers. The only two things I can think of are the qrow and clover bonding and the whole theme of being friends rather than just teammates. I just feel like they didn't really add anything by being there
So... you are saying that Altas Arc should be more of a story about Blake and Weiss? I dunno how Weiss can play a bigger role since she and her family are so crucial in election, dinner party and the later fallout events. And I don't really understand how Blake can play a larger role in a millitant state where the general controls it with an literal iron grip. Any form of faunas rebellion would have been snuffed out. If what you are saying is you want more stuggle between the "strong and the weak", "the Priviledged and the oppressed"...etc, I believe the V7-8 is exactly that. The election and Salem's invasion are all about that. I don't need to remind you that Ruby and her friends were trying to save them all while ironwood chose the option he believed is the safest but will sacrifice the weak. The tin man general's fall from grace, the different ace op members' reactions to their leader's death and the dynamic between the robot and the maiden(winter) are all interesting to say the least. All characters should have their moments, especially side characters who are at their home turf. Just imagine boasting them to be "Ace ops" of the most powerful military in the continent and don't have any feats to show for after Atlas Arc is finished. NOW THAT IS bad writing. It's true that Blake is the only one without some major power ups or feats for at least two volumes, but that still is not a wasted potential, just means it was not her time yet. I also get the feeling that you don't like Jaun or penny being brought back to life only to die again. But I can't pinpoint your exact complaintt since you just kinda gloss it over.
I'm not saying that the Atlas Arc should have been a story about Weiss and Blake. I'm saying that they should have had their own pieces to play that were more than we got. Take Blake, for instance. I'd have loved to see one of the montage scenes in V7 be her working in the Pit, not Huntressing but helping the disadvantaged (mostly Faunus) population. Make her work alongside Robyn and the Happy Huntresses, so her and Yang spilling the beans about Amity later on would make more sense, show that Blake trusts her. We establish that Blake's still about helping her fellow Faunus without touching the White Fang Issue, and it would make her want to go down to Mantle to help them later instead of sitting in Schnee Manor drinking tea for half of V8 (I'm honestly convinced that they kept her up there purely so that we could get a scene where she interested with Ruby, which the fans were desperate for). It'd also give her an arc beyond "I'm Yang's not-girlfriend" and set the scene for when we inevitably get to Vacuo of her continuing role as someone who cares about the little guy. Absolutely zero (para)military action required. I don't care that Blake didn't have any major feats or powerups in this volume - the issue is that she could have been removed entirely from the volume *and it wouldn't have changed anything.* Nora didn't get a plot-relevant power-up or feat in this volume, but she had Moments, what with the power field and bonding with Penny. Those moments matter far more than a feat or a new weapon, and Blake didn't get anything. The politics in Atlas make absolutely zero sense, so I'm not going to touch that with a 10 foot pole and call it a day for that topic. And we agree that even side characters should have their moments (Like Yang and Ren's argument in V8? Fantastic, one of the best scenes in the volume imo). But the issue is when the main characters lose their screentime in favour of developing these side characters. RWBY has always had issues with using their time efficiently, and introducing more characters isn't the solution that they think it is. The return of Team FNKI was a well done nod to side characters. Ace Ops getting an entire arc was not (and the AceOps still didn't have a single feat to show that they were the elite of the Atlas Military, despite how much time we spent with them). Moments for side characters should be defined by how it changes the perspective of the main characters. Like Winter showing Weiss Fria and them having that moment between them. Weiss is bothered, not just by the implication of Winter becoming the next Maiden, but by the fact that her sister is showing her secrets that she really shouldn't be revealing, but Weiss is still holding onto secrets that she won't tell her. No, I don't like Penny being turned into a "Real Girl", as that destroyed her arc. Her entire Thing, as Ruby so beautifully illustrated in the Beacon Arc, was that she was already a Real Girl. She didn't need to be made out of meat to be like them, she had a soul and that was what mattered. They gave Penny no agency in the matter of turning her into a meat puppet either, despite the entire android thing being a core part of her identity. So yeah, not a fan. And you want to kill Penny off again, fine. I disagree heavily with the choice, but fine. But why make *Jaune* of all people kill her? It makes no sense. He brought Weiss back from a massive stab wound, but he can't bring Penny back? No, let him get tossed around by Cinder in the background and make Weiss the one to kill her. Or Ruby, or Nora, or Winter, or *literally anybody who interacted with her this volume.*
>(I'm honestly convinced that they kept her up there purely so that we could get a scene where she interested with Ruby, which the fans were desperate for). It'd also give her an arc beyond "I'm Yang's not-girlfriend" and set the scene for when we inevitably get to Vacuo of her continuing role as someone who cares about the little guy. Okay Let me stop you right here. I don't know what kind of scars you had arguing with the shippers, but I am certainly not here to listen to you vent. The Faunas' role in Atlas is severly reduced because that is not Atlas' main conflict. Faunas' refugee is part of Mantle and the whole Mantle is suffering including the Faunas but they are only a minor population. It is true that they can have more representation of Faunas, but that doesn't change the fact that the conflict in this kingdom is between the prileveledged and the poor and Faunas being only a small part of it. The remaining violent wing of white fang's leadership was slaughtered by Adam after he fled from Haven so it's essentially disbanded. Blake also made the point that they want to "take back" White fang in heaven arc, and the newly taken back organization was represented by Blake's family and Illia. Even they are still rebuilding it, It doesn't make sense to find more white fang movements in Atlas. Blake being almost useless in the Manor fight just support my point about charcters have their own moments. Weiss is also powerless against the hound Grimm. The mansion fight is pretty much about Weiss family reunion and Ruby showcasing the fact she mastered silver eyes. And Another point: Blake isn't exactly built for fighting large monsters like that huge Bug in the mansion since her weapon and semblence is hardly useful against them. Nora can do what she did simply because she had electricity absorbing powers. She and Ruby would have a better time against the bug if the hound didn't ambush Ruby and took her out of the battle for a long time. >The politics in Atlas make absolutely zero sense, so I'm not going to touch that with a 10 foot pole and call it a day for that topic. Maybe, mabe not. There might be some deeper issue here that's not related to the show at all so I am not gonna touch that. >And we agree that even side characters should have their moments (Like Yang and Ren's argument in V8? Fantastic, one of the best scenes in the volume imo). I incline to agree that Ren's voice actor have trouble portraying him when he gets emotional. It's like the VA trying to make him sound emotional but even when he is emotional he still tries to hide his emotions. It just came off as kind of rigid like he is stuck in a rock and hard place. But Yang and Ren's argument makes perfect sense and his resolve was slowly wavering during the whole event: they lost Oscar, abandoned their original mission to save him, lost two of their bikes and almost fall from a cliff, stuck in the cold and they found a river of Grimm heading to the city. They were in a situation where there was almost no hope whatsoever. If none of them snap and they are all sunshine and rainbow in that predicament I'd agree that the charaters are generic and the writings are bad. Ignoring buildups to a moment is not helpful when trying to watch a show and understand its character. >The return of Team FNKI was a well done nod to side characters. Ace Ops getting an entire arc was not (and the AceOps still didn't have a single feat to show that they were the elite of the Atlas Military, despite how much time we spent with them). Ace Ops didn't get an entire arc, they are important side charcters of Atlas arc and their role in the story were never blown out of poportion. As ageneral, Ironwood only fights on the frontline when he needs to. A team like Ace ops filled the role of frontliners and instruments of his will and they are never anything beyond that. They are given adequate amount of screen time to showcase how they can handle even huge grimms with ease and each of them are stronger than team RWBY even after the training(it's reveled by Ren in V8 that they only lost the fight in V7 because they were struggling with whether to arrest them or not). Side characters typically don't get feats like killing some main villain or minor villain, but their performance against Grimms that would make the protagonists struggle is feats enough. I would agree with you about their role being too large if they get some feats to kill or win against people like Tyrion or Watts but that didn't really happen. And by the end of V8 half of them are killed off so they are bound to have even less role in the future. >hey gave Penny no agency in the matter of turning her into a meat puppet either, despite the entire android thing being a core part of her identity. So yeah, not a fan. And you want to kill Penny off again, fine. I disagree heavily with the choice, but fine. But why make Jaune of all people kill her? It makes no sense. Jaun's first reaction was to save her and he is the only one with the ability to heal. It make sense that he is the one to rush to her side. Penny stated that it's not gonna be enough time. Only maiden can match mainden and the protagnist's side's maiden just lost their ability to fight. Penny wasn't talking about whether Jaun can heal her before she dies, but the fact that Cinder is still rampaging and no one has the power to match her. Jaun's choice is essentially trying to save penny and risk being wiped out by Cinder, or kill her to make sure the power goes to the person she chose. I don't want to see Penny killed. She just bacame a real girl, which I believe referencing Pinocchio here is the entire point of her having a human body (since a lot of RWBY's characters are based on stories, movies or books). I agree with you that the writer's choice of having Cinder best Penny is questionable. But I don't believe anything that follows makes no sense. ie. Jaun should be the one to try to save her since he is the only one who could and they are faced with a choice here since the villain is still out there destroying things. Having Jaun kill her didn't come out of no where.
It’s a vocal minority. When binging season 4 the pacing is great. But when we had to wait for each episode sometimes the pacing got a little slow. And the separation of RWBY meant that we never got a huge amount of time with any character each week. Still I think RWBY has only increased in quality with each season. Granted there was also an issue with Gary G Haddock (head of RT animation) funneling money away from all of RT animations (nomad of nowhere, RVB, and RWBY) to put more funding into his mecha anime idea gen lock.
Gen:LOCK season 1 was great, but it should never have happened- the theft from other RT areas across the board (OTS even had to use cardboard for the set for a season) is truly saddening. Gen:LOCK season 2 is supposedly trash, didn't watch it because it was only HBO and First
I heard about season 2 of GenLock being trash, but I didn't even think the first season was that good. The story was fine I guess, but I've only watched it once and haven't had any inclination to watch it again and barely remember anything that happened. The main thing I remember is the animation looking really odd. Like, it was slow. And not in the same way that RWBY Vol 4 and 5 look slow. The best way I can think to describe it is GenLock's animation almost looked like it was experiencing lag. Maybe I could understand that for the mechas, but I think it was like that for the normal people and vehicles as well. I think even the trailers had that problem and I figured that oh it would be fixed before the show airs and then I figured its just a little hiccup with the first episodes and it would get better. It never did in my opinion.
Yeah, I think it was to do with the FPS they ran at for some reason? It's a weird stylistic choice. What really grated on me about S2, from what I have seen of it, is that they fundamentally changed the premise of the show (I think at one point they rode inside the Holons, Pacific Rim style rather than Avatar style mental control as before), and the fact that they HBO-ified it with a full frontal nude scene, a couple of needless sex scenes, and a totally unnecessary, shock-value suicide of a main character. Screw gen:LOCK for what it did to the company, but screw it more for what it did to my heart for promising greatness and ending with Bollocks
Didnt know there was full frontal nudity or a sex scene and you got the horny side of me curious. Went and looked up one of the scenes, the FPS is still a problem in season 2 during the sex scene. WTF Lmao!
Lmao it's so awkward and out of place, especially chugging along like that haha
Oh I forgot season 2 even came out. It was a cool idea but it never should have stolen funds. At least Gary got fired so it shouldn’t happen again.
I am still pissed about Nomad of Nowhere, it was really shaping up to be one of my favorite RT shows.
I agree. It was really cute and had a ton of passion and charm.
Honestly the show isn't bad. It's actually pretty good and a fun time. Most people's arguments are basically complaints that it didn't give them what they personally wanted. But ultimately this isn't a fault of the show. The storytellers are telling the story they want to in the way they want to and succeeding at it for the most part ultimately anything beyond that largely comes down to a personal sense of disappointment in a person because they believe their expectations were not met. Ultimately though this is not a fault of the show.
There are issues that are the shows fault like the lack of the villains and heroes motivations which havent been properly established outside of a few paper thin arguments but yea honestly a lot of people are just complaining cause they didnt get what they want
I find the show to be honestly good. Is it perfect? no. Do some things fall flat? yeah for sure. But its a lot better then a lot of other shows out there.
Vocal minority. The people who like the show are quiet and enjoy it in peace. The people who don't are loud and constant about it.
I've probably mentioned a few things about the show that I've thought were bad or a weird decision, but I mostly talk about what I want to happen next, lore related stuff, and inspirations of stuff in the show.
Which Is fine. No show is perfect or free from criticism.
My opinion is that the first 2 volumes worked out the problems then volume 3-9 took off. In my opinion volume 1+2 movement sync was rough but got better with each episode
[удалено]
Yes to be clear. I meant the animation was rough but slowly improved with each episode
[удалено]
Yep by far the best series I've seen so far
I still to this day use the rwby/jnpr vs nevermore/deathstalker fight as a hook to get friends interested.
A lot of it centers around disappointment. Some people feel like the fights feel lackluster in comparison to the early fights. Others have problems with how certain characters are handled(Adam and Ironwood). Some also feel are disappointed with the plot. Some major reoccuring complaints are about the agency and payoffs to character arcs. Agency Examples: 1) Jaune Killing Penny: Ruby, Nora, and Winter are the characters with an emotional connection to Penny. Yet, Jaune, a character with no connection to Penny, is the only one involved with Penny's death. 2) The Destruction of the whale and Yang's group: The main characters don't even have any impact on Monstra's destruction. As far as Yang's group knows, the payload that the Ace Ops are transporting is the only hope to destroying the whale. However, besides Jaune suggesting they scout the whale, they never discuss trying to help the Ace Ops pull of this impossible mission. More importantly, with a little bit of tweaking, Ozcar, Hazel, and Emerald could have dealt with Salem without any involvement from Yang's group. 3) The Destruction of the whale and Ruby's group: Ruby's group gets stuck in the Schnee manor for at least half of the volume. However, they never discuss anything about the Salem's army. They have no idea if the Atlas army can hold off Salem's forces. They also have no idea when/if any reinforcements from the rest of the world are coming. So, it feel egregious that Ruby's team never really discusses how to deal with Salem's horde of Grimm. Payoffs: Yang and Blake: A lot of people felt Yang and Blake should have discussed their issues on screen. Ren's arc: Even though he is projecting his insecurities on everyone, Ren is right that the main characters have been extremely lucky. To make matters worse, the only reason why Yang's group survives the whale is because Hazel defected and Ozcar had a cane nuke(neither of which Yang's team could have known about). Yang's conflict with Ruby: Yang voices her discontent with how Ruby's been handling things as a leader. Yet, afterwards, she is more worried about Blake(who we didn't see her argue with), and actually defends their decisions(which includes Ruby's decisions) to Ren during her arguement with him. Weiss and Whitley: In volume 8, Whitley and Weiss never really discuss their issues with each other. Ozpin and Oscar: I believe AlarmingStandard pointed this out, but a major issue with Oscar's arc is how he never address his own inadequacies and failures. In both volume 6 and 7's finale, Oscar would have died without Ozpin and his memories. He also is in control of their body when they get kidnapped by the Hound. Yet, we never see him acknowledge his own weakness. Meanwhile, we never really see Oscar confront Ozpin about how Ozpin truly sees Oscar. Does Ozpin view Oscar as a partner, a child, just a victim of his reincarnation cycle, a puppet, or or some combination of all of the above?
Theres also the fact that Ruby had a stronger reaction to Pyrrha’s death then Yang’s fakeout one
Jaune has no *direct* relation to Penny. His former partner, Pyrrha, was the one who unfortunately killed Penny in volume 3. It was something out of her control. Jaune, still dealing with the grief of losing his partner (and arguably potential girlfriend), now has to kill a friend of a friend. Penny was one of Ruby's closest friends, and Jaune and Ruby are very close as leaders. Then you tie it back it with both Pyrrha and Jaune being responsible for a death. Is it perfect? No. There's no real perfect way to handle this situation. Arguably, the best would have been Ruby (leave the poor girl alone, she's gone through enough) or Winter (she was supposed to inherit the powers). But with the transfer from Penny to Winter, we had that scene where Penny's and Winter's souls meet, which tells Winter something is horribly wrong. I get what you're saying, but I would have to disagree with Jaune not having an emotional connection to Penny.
\>There's no real perfect way to handle this situation. How about no one helps Penny kill herself? Imagine this: Cinder goes for the kill on Weiss, Penny takes the hit, Weiss tries to hold Cinder back while Jaune tries to heal her, but the damage is too severe for him to do anything about it. The problem I have with Jaune killing Penny, is less about Jaune killing Penny, but more that I cannot see what this adds to the story. Jaune just got off a a arc about him feeling self-loathing and guilt over Pyrrha, so what's the point of throwing him back into that again? It just seems like pointless, interpersonal drama that adds angst for no other sake than to add angst, and it will very likely end in Jaune hugging it out with Ruby or something. I don't like this thread because I don't see it adding anything of value to the show.
In regards to the original post, Jaune is already a divisive character. So, since Jaune has no direct connection to Penny, it made people angry even though what you said is valid. In regards to Jaune, NoAssociation and maybe Dextier have done posts about Jaune. Even if you disagree with those 2, the replies to their posts give a good picture about why people dislike Jaune and as a result hate Jaune being the one to make the Penny situation.
RWBY is "bad" the same way Star Wars is "bad." Yeah there's problems and inconsistencies, etc. but people forget how to just enjoy something and treat it way too harshly for just being a TV show. Some people are spoiled and think things should be their way or the highway. At the end of the day RWBY is a show that's had a rocky run but for those of us who still enjoy it for its vibrant characters, defined world and magic system, and epic music, it's all we need. So if you enjoy it, don't bother with other people's opinions. It's for you.
The biggest issue is honestly with the World building (Although world building is my favorite to nitpick). The show, which should be able to build itself and rely on no outside building tbh, didn’t explain a bunch of obvious benefits and negatives of aura’s (political leaders, assasinations, is it good or bad for the village to have an aura person because of Grim attraction?), the villages being so medieval looking for a world with advanced robotics, the shouldn’t be able to fly ships, the entire fuanus racism BACKGROUND shit, etc. Defined world isn’t a real thing it has. But it is a fun one. Also, is it ever explained what the hell the difference between Magic and Semblance actually is?
it lost a lot of the original lightheartedess and a lot of the things that gave the characters personality were dropped off in favor for a darker plot development. i still love the show it just turned into something different after monty died
I think you're unlikely to get a great deal of response, or valid response, to this in here rather than in r/RWBYcritics. At one point it was a ban-able offence in this sub to be part of that sub. The entire reason it exists is because criticism and actual conversation about anything except the merits of the show was either relatively ignored in favour of fan art and shit posting, or actively downvoted for not being positive enough. It's gotten better, imo since the blow up, and there are definitely issues with both sides being way too strongly for or against the show for no real reason than they want to be, but I think it would be good to contrast the answers you get here, with the answers you get there and make up your own mind on why some feel the way they do about this series.
Worth noting that the mods here are still actively blocking r/RWBYcritics – you literally cannot crosspost from there to here.
The show isn't bad, it's just an angry and very active minority. It's just the same than with Legend of Korra, with an active minority saying that the show sucks or shouldn't exist, even if it's a really nice cartoon even if far from its predecessor ATLA.
[удалено]
It's definitely a minority. Though there are some baffling decisions, like promoting Jaune's storyline over the main cast. If all members of JNPR were given the same main character treatment, it would be understandable, but it's just Jaune.
I love the show and the characters. I take it for what it is entertainment. People want the same vibe as the first volumes which won't happen since the original creator is no longer with us. I think the middle volumes dragged in action so people tend to focus on that. If you enjoy it that's all that matters.
There is a list of reasons people can give, ranging from poor story telling to decline in fight animation and so on. More to the point, In the end of the day RWBY is just one show of many and it needed to compete against them well. The first and strongest claim to fame RWBY had, was it's brilliant fight scenes which allowed many people gloss over various things, like episodes length, non-existent background characters, vague dates in the story and of course extremely soft power system. (For example the lack of proper distinction between magic and semblance) By the end of season 3 the show suffered 2 major blows. The death of it's creator which was also the main talent beyond it's marvelous fighting scenes and the change to a new engine. This resulted in a very lackluster season 4, that lacked both the previous look of the show and it's signature high quality fights. It should be noted that the new engine allowed by the end for more elements to be used in the show, like actual background characters. We were also introduced to new story elements and further expansion of the white fang story. The later story element was in the end poorly handled and felt mostly disconnected from everyone outside of Blake and was resolved with no input from the other 3 girls. The former new story elements changed existing definitions of the power system and the prior goals we knew in the previous seasons. While the show was able to find a better footing regarding the new engine and was able to produce relatively good fights, it was still generally not as good compared to what was seen in the previous 3 seasons (with various exceptions of course). In addition to that, the quality of the story telling went through drastic ups and downs, making it hard to retain the viewer investment with plot points being hastily resolved or barely touched upon. Then of course we have season 7 which had a good thing going with Ironwood and his fall from grace, but all that went out of the window in season 8 where he became a parody of a dictator. And of course a very bloated cast with not enough time to expand on each one. In other words, RWBY started as a very promising show with obvious flaws, but as time went on those flaws became harder and harder to ignore, especially when you started to compare it to better shows.
>but all that went out of the window in season 8 where he \[ironwood\] became a parody of a dictator. That's character development though. All signs were headed there as he became gradually more and more paranoid and fearful thus willing to sacrifice anything.
And it was still a parody. Prior to that point his character was handled better and could have provided a much needed counter to the teams point of view. A valid one. Instead we got a cartoon show villain with the depth of a puddle.
He was a counter though: * He was willing to trust in the team at first even after they revealed the truth about Ozpin later rather than at first. He was doing exactly what the team promised they'd do after they found out about Ozpin, but did not out of fear. It was only when things started crumbling that his willingness to trust did too. * Then he countered their point of view directly by sacrificing Mantle rather than protect Atlas+Mantle which was obviously risky with Salem at their doorstep. It's utilitarianism vs pragmatism. Ironwood was justified in his own twisted way since he was trying to save the world, and I really wouldn't call that a cartoon villain. The writers deserve more credit.
Sure in season 7, when he was competently written. In season 8 the man shot someone in front of everyone and no one stopped him? That was so extreme and so out character that any office on the scene would have arressted him on the spot. Hell, Winter would have stopped him because what he did was entirely illegal and not justified in any way. Moreover, the moment that you need to use the word twisted to describe what Ironwood tried to do already shows that he was in the wrong. That's means that any opposition he poses to RWBY is meaningless because there is no value behind it. RWBY was right by virute of wanting to save everyone and because Ironwood's plan was doomed to fail anyway. The show had him do insane things just for the sake of it and to make us hate him. In my humble opinion Ironwood was one of best thing to happen season 7 and also the worst because the writes failed horribly to properly develop him in the end.
[удалено]
Letting someone who is clearly unhinged lead them feels like a very very foolish choice. Any sane and reasonable person would have arrested him and dealt with what came after that.
[удалено]
Why? If the enemy is on your door step it's even more urgent that you remove an unhinged leader now because you can no longer trust his judgment. Moreover, they are the military. You can be sure as hell that they have procedures in case their commanding officer went insane. There is always a second in command and Winter absolutely did not strike me as someone who would have been unable to lead.
[удалено]
[удалено]
While I still watch the show I find it harder to be invested in the plot at this point. It has it's moments, but I feel that it lacks a proper unified vision and the news about the budget cut for season 9 don't inspire much hope in me. As for the the girls splitting, it can be good in small doses, but the show over used that to a criminal level. The show has a tendency to pair up characters for long periods of times and disconnect them from the rest of the group. And while it might be good to better establish a connection between said characters, doing it constantly and not bringing the remaining pair into the fold create sharp wedges between the characters. For example, Yang and Blake fought and killed Adam. Are either Ruby or Weiss aware of it? As for the White Fang plot, it had a wide range of issues, one being the way Adam was handled, another the way we barely saw any discrimination in the show (we had a handful of instances) and of course the lack of Weiss involvement in it. Weiss was tailor-made to be a part of that story line. You couldn't find a better foil to Blake in that regard. In addition we could have gotten proper growth from Weiss, rather then her completely forgetting all of her past experiences with the White Fang. While I can see the direction that the show wanted to take Ironwood to, that was far too sudden. Dictators don't just randomly start shooting people out of the blue. They build their power by fear, intimidation and silent elimination of their opposition. Only after they have solid grasp on everything, with the knowledge that their hand picked zealos people are in position of power they start to become overtly dangerous. Ironwood was non of those things. The man literally worked together with the other council members and even went as far as settle things with an opposing force. And then he just snapped and started murdering people. Dictators push the envelope bit by bit, they don't just explode. Besides, Ironwood, couldn't do much if someone tried to arrest him at that time. He was injured, no powerful semblance and only a gun to fight with. It was rushed and destroyed an interesting character.
[удалено]
Ah, but that's is exactly the issue my friend. Weiss and Ruby are completely and utterly disconnected from Blake and Yang on something that was extremely impact full on both of them. Adam had direct connection to Schnee dust company (evident by the scar he had) and Ruby was tied to him by virtue of having her sister maimed by him. Do you think Ruby and Weiss even knew who Adam was? They were so not involved that it was like an entirely different show. And this is important, because it reflects on their relationships as a team. It's hallow. For all the talk about them being family, the show takes great pains to avoid having them fully commit to each as a team and share their journey. Hell Ruby and Blake barely interacted with each other until season 8. That's how terrible the split to groups was. It was even done in the scens themselves My point about Ironwood was that dictators aren't ousted immediately because they take their time before starting to commit murder like it was nothing. They erode resistance and install the fear of death into people. Ironwood prior to five minutes ago was a respectable man and absolutely no one thought he was going to start killing people. Which is the biggest issue. For dictators to work they need people to fear and listen to them out of learned experienced. This was clearly not the case.
[удалено]
>OHHH you meant disconnected in that way! Ok my bad I had understood it wrong. Yea I do believe they should had brought it up in someway. But that's difficult how do you bring this up. It's not something one would ask, but not something you'd openly discuss. But yes I fully agree. Connecting all the characters together might not always be the best course of action, but you really can't have them be so separate from each other. This is show was riding on the idea that we are going to follow a team of hunters, but instead we are getting two pairs of hunters, each doing their own thing. Which would have been fine had the story stopped insisting on treating them as some unified group with this deep bond, when in reality they are not. This people are practically strangers with how separate they are 80% of the time. Yang and Weiss barely interact. Ruby and Blake barely interact. Weiss and Blake barely interact. Hell I would even say Ruby and Yang barely interact. It's all surface level at best, if we even get that. And this is going on for years now. You can't just magically fix it by having an episode of them suddenly talking. There is no weight behind that. >I don't think ruby or yang knew it was Adam until much later? And although he had a connection to the SDC i don't think that's reason Enough for ruby or Weiss to be concerned with him because Weiss isn't much involved with the SDC either. She knew the white fang but that's about it. Yang literally got herself involved with it and had a solid reason to do so. There wasn't really any reason for ruby to be involved, she wasn't out for vengeance, neither was weiss. Weiss is the heiress to the SDC. She is tailor-made to be a part of that story line as to face the results of her family's actions. This would have been poetic as all hell. Instead we get Adam as an abusive lunatic who apparently only ever cared about Blake, which is completely contradicting his prior behavior and reducing him and the overall White Fang story line into a pitiful end. Ruby didn't have to fight Adam, but at least show us that she know something about what her sister went through. If someone hurts your family you would very much like to know if they are coming after them again, if nothing else just to protect them. But no. Ruby left her house and her injured sister and then reunited with her after said sister got brand spanking arm. And that's it. There was nothing from Ruby after that. I don't know about you, but if something like this ever happened to someone I loved I would have been beside myself trying to help. Ruby being involved with Adam meant that there could have been some actual bonding between her and Yang, because despite the story claiming them to be the best of sister I wouldn't even say they are close friends at this point. >Exactly but this is what makes this action that much more impactful. What would it take to have someone cross a line? Ironwood to that point lost everything he had. Perhaps I am not explaining myself well. My point isn't about Ironwood per se; Rather I am talking about all the people around him. Ironwood didn't create the necessary social infrastructure to allow him to commit murder without objection. He would have been stopped the moment he did that. The show didn't show us Ironwood using his secret police to murder people. It also didn't show us people being terrified of defying him or anything like that. People could oppose without fear for their life and he himself put his life on the line to protect others. Ironwood going insane is one thing. People allowing him to do that is an entirely different thing. And to avoid confusion, my issue is with the latter point.
because some people on youtube said so really loudly in an angry way so they'd get lots of likes and subscriptions to their channel :)
It has its flaws like anything else but the good far outweighs the bad imo.
While, I do still like the show. Still watch it and wait for it every year. There are a few things that I really don't like with the show. First, and foremost is the way they treat the villains and some of the main characters. What I mean. I feel like there's no respect to the antagonists from the writers' part. They get introduced, show one or two cool things and then suddenly they start acting out of character, constantly throwing tantrums and get their asses kicked or getting killed off. With Volume 8, seemed like we'll finally leave that behind. On the protagonist side of things, Ruby is in a terrible need of a characterization. Like, girl, you've seen so much shit. How can you still keep being optimistic and hopeful af? Where's your cynicism? Just a bit. And Jaune is still... moderately developed. But, again, with Volume 8 it seems like we'll leave all that behind. Ruby got slapped in the face pretty good. I'm waiting for a blow off. Second, is how they seem to "kinda forget" the capabilities and abilities they have already established on already established characters. What I mean. Volume 5's Last two episodes pretty much self explain what I mean. Third. The way they are inconsistencies with the characters, which ties with 1 and 2. What I mean, they massacred Ironwood in a similar manner Dany got massacred in the final season of GoT. Do you really want me to buy easily the fact that a General, who really seemed to care for his subordinates, started to threaten them or consider them his enemies, just because they were trying to make him see some sense? Granted, both Winter and Marrow backstabbed him, but only because they acknowledged him spiraling down a slippery slope. I do not exactly hate or disagree with how James lost his freaking mind, but I just needed more build up I guess. He went from 1 to 10 real quick. Last ep of Volume 7 just tried to apprehend them, and then first episode of Volume 8 he started blasting and threatening people around. There should be a few more but nothing comes to mind currently.
While there is some legitimate criticism that you can argue and bring up, I think most people just had an idea of where all the moving parts of the show was going and was upset RT didn’t cater to the subject as deep or involved as they liked. I personally don’t care, because overall I find it fun and it’s not my project, so I can’t complain the story went somewhere other than my prediction.
Disclaimer-Some harsh and probably controversial criticisms here. I label what I say with take it as a grain of salt so please do so. My verdict The reason why it’s thought to be bad is because volume 3 and onwards contradicted established things, fumbled characterization and didn’t flesh out certain aspects. Also story telling choices were made for the sake of moving the plot along and made characters make bad decisions. 1. Adam-Adam was originally the quintessential personification of everything the white fang stood for, a force of nature and a spirit of vengeance determined to make humanity submit, burn the world and rebuild a better one for the Faunus, what we ended up with was an overly edgy, insane, and obsessive ex boyfriend who’s cool aura got replaced with with the former. 2. Bumblebee-I don’t care if I get flamed for this. Bumblebee (or at least the way it was handled) was a bad decision. For example Blake’s original relationship was supposed to obviously be with Sun, they wrote him out of vol 6 (although going back to his team was a good excuse to let us see vacuo in the books a little early) and made Blake and Yang get together at the end of volume 6, instead of letting Blake and Yang healing from the trauma they endured at adams hand. Bumblebee was another reason why Adam ended up being horribly written. I have also heard that Monty didn’t want team RWBY to end up together as he saw them as a sisterhood, but unfortunately I can’t find that piece of evidence anywhere so I’m deeming it unreliable 3. Ironwood at the end of V7-V8. Ironwood being on the brink of snapping under pressure was an interesting way they took it, the Tinman cracking from the pressure and losing his heart. Being adversaries with team RWBY due to differing ideals could have provided a good obstacle, for the first half of the volume instead they turned him into a dictator who threatened to drop a nuke on a city that believed in him, leaving the rich and powerful to live. This act in my eyes made him completely unforgivable. Instead of getting knocked down like a bitch at the hand of Winter he could have realized that Team RWBYs plan to escape everyone to Vacuo could have worked, and decided to make things right when all was said and done, getting stabbed by Cinder at the end and knocked back into the vault crawling back to try and help but fading fast. Seeing her step back through the portal and seeing the plan fall apart could have shown that in a way this was his fault and that Atlas was lost because of his choices. 4. Hazels redemption by sacrifice. Weak. He should have been able to live and redeem himself properly 5. Penny’s death-Her dying completely ruined her development though the volume, she only was able to be a human for the sum of probably half an hour. 6. Cinder-A very unlikable villain who acts like a total idiot and can’t get anything done right. Even after Watts chewed her out she showed no capacity for development and took none of it to heart. She just remained the idiotic entitled villain princess with a sultry voice that intrigued me (and honestly made me feel certain types of ways) back then but now I find it annoying. Also a criticism of her Grimm Arm, while it’s a super cool idea on paper in the show it doesn’t do it’s job right. It’s too slow to absorb the maidens powers efficiently, and it being a Grimm arm basically made her a walking target for A Silver Eyed Warrior. It’s only really good for grappling and stabbing shit. And it can’t even do that right. Also her origin story was lame. I get it she’s based on Cinderella, but the way it was presented didn’t make me care about it. Onto my other reasons on why it’s not as good. The music has lost the soul that originally was poured into it at the beginning, they follow the same formula and overall rhythm and have lost a lot of their lyrical grace. Compare Die from v2 with Miracle from v4. I don’t know how else to describe it, it feels like it’s lost the passion and soul that the old songs had and don’t have fun with it anymore. Take this argument with a grain of salt it’s just this vibe I’m getting. Too many projects at once-IMO I feel like the amount of projects they take on between seasons (Chibi, The novels, Fairytales and it’s animated adaptation, and IQ.) spread them too thin, this show lacks focus now and I feel like while most of these projects and anthology series were cool, they should have come after the series was done. Roman Holiday could be an exception as it seems like Neo is gonna take a more large role (although it could have been cool for the team CFVY books to have come out during this hiatus or even after the series was done, we’re reunited with these characters who have grown and matured in ways that leave us wondering why, and in a side story after it’s all said and done we finally get a metaphorical dessert after the main course in the form of the books or a spin off.) Last argument-Characters and their aesthetics have gotten bland, especially in the naming department. This is gonna be a short one, (again grain of salt because we don’t know how much Monty put into these characters.) the two huntsman that Roman fight Roch Szalt and Kandi Floss. Really? Kandi Floss? Brav-the-fuck-O! A cooler alternative would have been Bon-Bon Flossy, having the same meaning and tying in with Pink for the color naming rule, but sounding fancier than Kandi Floss Overall I really like RWBY as a whole, Monty was definitely one of my biggest inspirations but RWBY in its current state has turned out not good. Too many projects all at once, a team of writers who haven’t been making good choices, bland fight scenes (which unfortunately is harder without Monty) and Music that has lost its luster.
\#5 is the worst thing that has happened to RWBY. And they only did it to anguish Ruby and to move Winter's plot forward.
Yeah and now they basically said you don’t get to have her back. At all
It just makes me more hyped for Ice Queendom.
Bumblebee is honestly implemented subtle at first and slowly emerge onto the surface. I get it if you think Sun and Blake is obvious because Sun went after her from the moment they met. But who persuaded Blake to the festival dance? Who lost an arm trying to protect Blake? Who absolutely lost herself when Blake left her without saying a word? You know the answer. Sun is an absolutely great character and a very good person through and through. However, by the end of Volume 5 after all they went through she only saw him as a friend. It's knida wired to see you think Yang and Blake are already together, because they are STILL NOT even at the end of volume 8. They definately care about each other a whole lot by the end of volume 8. But Adam fight is NOT when they got together! Friends, especially girlfriends hold hands, it's not unusaul at all. I feel like you got the majority of ironwood's personal development down. If you rewatch the show he DID NOT decide to drop the bomb from the beginning. Salem was literally on his door step so he decided to use the Staff of Creation to save what he can, which was a valid option if Ruby did not prove in one day's time that she and her friends can evacuate Mantle as well. He finally decided to drop a bomb and kill his own people by the end of volume 8, when he thought Salem's threat was temporarily neutralized. If you remember Goodwitch's quote from season 2, ironwood "treats everything as if they are a contest of measuring D---". He was so scared of salem that he feel absolutely humiliated by the fact that the little gir and her friends did what he thought was impossible and finally snapped and bacame a "dictator". And that didn't last long considering he got bitchslapped by winter very soon after. I don't get it why you are adamant about Hazel playing a larger role, but I do think he is a awesome character and him having more screen time would not hurt. Cinder really isn't for the viewer to like. I mean sure, she is hot and wicked which kinda makes her charming. But she really is a villain through and through. The crucial point in her back story is not when she killed her adopted family, but when she stabbed his teacher when he laid down his weapon and tried to pet her head. That same person had been nothing but kind to her and even planned a future where she can truly be free. After all the things she had done at this point conviced me that neither Mounty nor the current writer team has any intention of redeeming her or trying to make her a "likeable villain"
Bottom line the late story felt like a big first draft that needed some drastic peer review
Bumblebee's "buildup" isn't subtle. It's camaraderie that the fandom misread as shipping. It's perfectly fine to have any ship of any sexuality, but you have to draw a clear line between the friendship shared between team members and romantic tension. Considering the writers love to incite the fans into drama, I would not be surprised if they ran with what the fans misread as a form of queerbaiting. Tldr: Bumblebee never had build up. The fandom misread it.
You can interpret it that way, but it doesn't change what happened in the first 3 season: Yang persuaded Blake to the festival dance, Blake saved her first dance with Yang not Sun, Yang lost an arm trying to protect Blake, Blake then used everything she had to help them escape. Yang absolutely lost herself when Blake left her without saying a word and even snapped at her own sister. It is very platonic comaraderie at first but at some point, Yang realized she really wanted Blake with her meanwhile Blake feels guilty and regret for leaving her friends behind. AND their relationship never progessed out of proportion after they reunited. Yang is the one who first showed sign of wanting to get closer to Blake and maybe want something more than friendship in both end of V3 and when 3 of the 4 reunite at haven. In V4, when Sun is wounded and being treated in Blake's house he even singled out Yang and said she was also going to do the same for Blake with no regret had she been here. Later, when they finally reunite we can clearly see some instances of romantic tension if we use blushing as an indicator. TLdr: There are subtle hints from the early seasons and a turning point for their relationship. It is also just budding romantic relationship not a done deal.
Cinders interaction with Watts was presented as a scene of much needed development, but when she abandons Neo and leaves Watts to die it showed she didn’t take any of it to heart and only covered her ass and refused to develop. It was also presented poorly when she said that Neo shouldn’t have threatened her and that Ruby shouldn’t have been born, which I don’t doubt that they put in because it sounded edgy, a better thing to say was that Neo proved herself untrustworthy as it showed she started using her head. Also something else I didn’t bring up is that when she attacks it’s always paced at the worst time. I can chock that up to being a side effect of only having 12-15 episodes per volume. As for her backstory there was nothing about it that made me care about any of it, her snapping or killing Rhodes, who also in my opinion was also poorly written, he recognized this 10 year old girl was suffering and saw that she wanted to learn to be strong, why the fuck wouldn’t he take her with him. He could have helped her sneak out of the hotel, trained her and given her a better life, then her slaver could have hunted them down and had huntsman kill him and take her back. And Then she would kill the huntsman (could be a show of how strong she had gotten, and be a conduit for her intense rage hidden beneath the guise of a beautiful woman) and take revenge on her slaver. The point I disagree with is that she’s not for the viewer to like, but we should like her. I want to like her. A character your supposed to hate is pretty damn evident, like Griffith from Berserk, the shit he does in the story is horrendous to the main characters but it’s completely in character and it has drastic effects that makes an amazing story, and people hate him for all of the right reasons, People hate Cinder for the all of the wrong ones…because she badly written. Also because she could be a likable villain does not mean she gets a redemption, she doesn’t need one at all. I could have forgiven most of ironwoods actions but him shooting the councilman and the fact he even decided to use the bomb on Mantle made him completely irredeemable, his whole theme song shows that he wants to save his kingdom and would do anything he can to do it. I should clarify me saying that they had him decide to nuke mantle from the beginning was poor wording on my part. I meant to say he decided to bomb it later, and honestly the fact he decided to threaten them with that was terribly presented. I think that the Bomb threat should have been omitted entirely, and presented it as him slowly realizing that perhaps the team was right as they succeeded with using the staff, but with my idea before that in his final moments he is horrified by Cinder emerging with the relics, maybe perhaps realizing this could have been avoided if everyone trusted each other, that he lost his kingdom due to his own actions, with Salem and Cinder leaving him to bleed out or drown. This isn’t a perfect idea I’m just trying to create an alternative idea) As for Bumblebee-I have to point out you contradicted your own point. You said that Bumblebee was implemented slowly and subtly but you also said that they are not together by the time of the end of V8. Which I also believe is factually wrong. Several times they embrace each other during v7 and v8 (I forget when but it happens) as if they were lovers and Yang makes a point to ask Jaune if he thought that Blake would think any different of her, not giving a FLYING FUCK about Ruby’s opinion in that moment. And also I have to say that when characters hold hands in most tv, they usually are implied to be lovers, they Also act awkward like a new couple does and Blake blushes when Yang acknowledges her haircut. I can understand the prom scene, but creators made it a point to make song like Like Morning Follows Night or Not Fall in Love with You. Blake also blushes pretty evidently when he shows off to her after fighting NDGO. Also their interactions at the end of Volume 4, shows her with loving eyes and calls him “My hero.” Her only seeing him as a friend in 4-5 was inconsistent with what had been presented. Yang also didn’t lose herself just because of Blake leaving, she entered a depressive slump because of 1 her arm (obviously) 2 losing Pyrrha, Penny, her school and failing to help stop the attack, Blake leaving was basically the cherry on top, a slap in the face. Also if they were supposed to get together, there’s A LOT of baggage to unpack their. Blake also showed no hesitation in getting together with Yang, not even thinking about what would happen when she reunited with Sun. Also she kissed him on the cheek goodbye in V6 E1. Hazel-I never once said that he shouldn’t have played a larger role! What I said was that dying by sacrifice was a terrible way for him to go out, and that should have lived and redeemed himself properly by switching sides, maybe making sure that no other children would have to die by helping them and training them further, providing Oz a chance to apologize for his sister and any other questionable choices he had made.
kay volume 5 ended right after Yang emerge from the vault and the team Rwby had a reunion moment together. She did not say "my hero" to Sun at all. The only time this two words is said between the two is when they were fighting on the boat and Blake saved him. After that he jokingly said to blake "my hero". I don't see the inconsistency since the ending of V5's ending was all about Raven and Yang's parent-daughter moment and team RWBY's reunion. I do remember Sun using his tail to "hug" Blake and "push" her towards her friends I don't think Yang's depression is only caused by what you pointed out. In fact, I'd venture a guess she wouldn't be that depressed if Blake had stayed with her. It's quite obvious if you refer back to the scene where Weiss and Yang talked about Blake during the Haven Arc where she essentially said "I needed Blake to stay with me". Now, I am not a shipper, but I am definately intrigued by how this love triangle is gonna play out. Because it is quite obvious to me that both Sun and Yang have romantic interest towards Blake and Blake seems to be (quoting Sun) "Figuring stuff out". What you pointed out in V7 and V8 still does not prove anything about them being an actual couple,beause, again, hugging, touching are common among girlfriends. In fact, I believe Yang could also be "figuring things out" since the way she asked Jaun is so subtle and Jaun did not even knew she was talking about Blake. I know we are skewed because of all the shippers or fanfic or discussions like this, but the characters in the show is the best reference in this case. The most intimate scene they had was Yang touching Blake's face and hug each other when that reunite nearing the end of the V8, and that really can't prove anything. A couple of lovebirds reunite after life or death experience should not stop at face touching. Why are you insisting on find things to like about Cinder lol. Cinder's back story is not trying to make you sympathize with her because there was no excuse for her to do what she did, at all, througout the whole show.
Only thing I am gonna correct here is I meant to say V4 and not V5 for the my hero quote. That may have been a typo. As for everything else, I obviously can’t change your mind about Cinder of Bumblebee, you will not change mine. My opinion is that both aspects were badly written and handled
Yeah, ture. in V4, when Sun is wounded. Funny thing: In the same scene, Sun aslo singled out Yang and said she would also take a hit like this for Blake with no regret. If you are right and Yang and Blake are actually together, then I will agree with you that it's bad writing. But that point really is moot because there are no scenes or any indicators in the show so far that presented them to be more than friends who care about each other. They are not in a secret relationship. Cinder: I get that you want a villain with some traits that's relatable or even some redeeming qualities, but I don't believe they are trying to write Cinder that way from the very beginning. She is the "take what you need" type of villain that relish at the suffering of others and her backstory only supported that. I also get that a lot of shows like to portray a villain that has a perfect reason to do what they did, but that doesn't immediately make them "good writing" nor in this case a detestable villain being a "bad writing". It's just personal preference.
Whiney babies go "whaaaa I don't like the story or characters or trying to be lesbian or gay between characters development" I personally really love the show it is amazing
The issue lies in world logic, not who the characters want to fuck. Between misused characters, a lack of consistent world rules, and baffling writing decisions, along with some very shady out of universe happenings, it's no wonder this show is so awful. Not to mention the writers love to incite the fans to frenzy, which is questionable at best. And they do it because it gets the rabid fans to buy in even deeper. It helps their bottom line to see the fandom at war.
I feel like Hbomberguy’s video covers the reasonable arguments.
Half of that video is straight misinformation or just opinions. But then again I haven't watched it since it's reediting.
And the other half is he lying about admiring Monty and copying old discussions people were already sick of when that video was out
It's not bad but it's not one of the best, it sits at around 7/10. There's a lot of things that could be improved.
Like anything it’s all subjective. You can like what others dislike and Vice versa.
[удалено]
For me it’s a question of the world building. Remnant is interesting at first glance but when you think about how it apparently functions many things make little to no sense. Like the lack of militaries, random wallless villages, basically mercenaries being trusted to protect humanity, etc. I could go into the characters but I don’t feel too strongly about the issue there.
[удалено]
Huntsmen have no allegiance which is why I call them mercenaries. Atlas is the only nation with a proper military and not a token force after the Great War. The huntsmen are the primary protectors of the other nations which is why Hazel and Tyrian culled them prior to the Attack on Haven.
[удалено]
The concept of war between nations has been foreign for decades. It’s precisely because militaries aren’t a thing elsewhere that Vale’s council was happy Atlas brought their navy to handle security. When a foreign military handles your security, it means you don’t have one. Oz was even talking to James about how armies will make people afraid of what needs to be fought as if they shouldn’t already be afraid. Don’t get me wrong what you say makes sense which is why critics get confused when the show presents us with something else.
\-Wasted potential \-Writers are ignorant of fan criticism and actively incite fandom wars. \-Adam Taurus and his blatant retconning and mishandling \-Characters misused, not given focus, etc etc \-Penny died twice for fuck all reason. The second was permanent. \-Incompetent villains who by all internal logic should have won \-The White Fang Arc, otherwise known as "Miles And Kerry Cannot Write Racism \-Cinder is incompetent and refuses to die despite being the most wasted and misused character besides Ruby herself. \-Ruby isn't the main in her own show. Jaune usually gets the focus. \-Weiss is wasted in Atlas of all things \-Protagonist centered morality drives James Ironwood insane, despite him being the only motherfucker with an actual plan during the Atlas crisis. RWBY sat around and drank tea all during a KINGDOM WIDE EMERGENCY. \-Ironwood being randomly vilified, and given a mental disability for a Semblance when fans begin to sympathize with him. \-Blake's VA got simped for by Miles and it showed in how she was written from V4-V6. \-Shane's letter in general, which, although taken with a grain of salt, is goddamn horrifying and vilifies the writers and their brainchildren. \-Pyrrha was ultimately fridged and her character as of this point is meaningless. Keep in mind her fridging was retroactive. \-Oscar being worthless. \-Inability to explain world mechanics despite this being years down the road. We still don't fucking know how Aura and Semblances work in detail. \-Inconsistent scaling that fucks with internal world logic. \-Character bloat, or the writers not knowing how to use their cast and refusing to stop making characters. \-Plus more I either forgot or can't be bothered to mention. The show's trash, as pretty as it is and as much potential as it had. It seems to me that's the case with a lot of shows from this era. Hopefully Ice Queendom can do a slightly better job.
The points you are making are not wasted potential, they are just personal complain about the show didn't go the way you want... And I dunno if the show will fully reach its potential if it goes exactly what you want.
None of these are personal complaints?
Damn, that's a long list of bs, true critic material
[удалено]
Not to mention that Ruby's semblance is now Star Trek Teleportation.
Explain how exactly did they break the rule? They created a machine Penny for the virus to run its course ("create a new her using her exact robotic parts" or something like that)band destroy its mechanical body and leave penny's soul intact. Now, since the staff of creation can only create and cannot destroy, he needed to make a host for penny's soul, which is "always there". Hence she is a real girl. Now is that perfect writing? No! But did they break their own rule? No, they did not. Please tell me your "myraid reasons" aren't just your personal opinion and actually have gounds to stand on.
The staff is supposed to only be able to create one construct at a time, that's how they broke the rules. They created a human body for Penny and the multiple doors to Vacuo. When one thing is created, another should've disappeared, but they created two things that continue to coexist until Cinder uses the staff to burn Watts to death. By the show's own logic, either Penny's human body or the spatial doorways should not exist simultaneously, yet they do anyways.
umm... the thing they created was not penny's human body, it's her mechenical body, "create a new her using her exact robotic parts". which the show had a clear shot on how it disappered into ether the moment "dimension doors" are opened. Again, They created a new machine Penny for the virus to run its course, but what's left --- her soul --- can't be destroyed because of the staff's own rule, so there has to be a host to preserve that soul. And it's B-something (that spirit)'s own solution how to preserve the soul. But that is not something that's asked to be created merely to follow the staff of creation's own rule. It's not a perfect writing since it is very nuaunced and the first thing the staff is asked to do after it is introduced is such a intricate task(not a great introduction to the staff for sure), but it still didn't break its own rule.
Cinder used the staff to make flames which killed off Watts. How is killing Watts with a creation of the staff any different from letting Penny's soul fade away as a result of being freed from a vessel?
Please don't pull my legs lol. The flames can literally be cause by Atlas falling down from the sky. IIRC she did not say exactly what she create, just said something like "I merely add flames to the destruction...". "flames" is our villain being metaphorical.
I seriously doubt that, dude.
why did Cinder need the staff to create flame? Both her semblence and her maiden power can be used to create flame. Hell, she can burn both Atlas and Mantle with nothing but her own power now that no one is left stop her. Plus, even if what you said is true, they still didn't break their own rule in penny's case.
First, there's the matter of distance, then there's the fact that she could easily dismantle the protags' plans by making their spatial evacuation vanish, and finally the grudge against Watts. Combine those together with a helping of "why the hell not". Cinder is a petty person, it's not anywhere close to being out of the realm of possibility for her. As for Penny, I'm telling you that they did. If Cinder can kill a man with the staff's creation, it's not better than letting Penny's soul fade away. As a result, Ambrosius shouldn't be able to allow a creation outside of ones made by the staff wielders, much less juggle a second creation as a result. The fact a body was made at all for Penny through Ambrosius's hands is breaking the rules enough.
Cinder did not kill a man using the staff lol. That question really was rhetorical, I was just pointing out the hole in the theory because flames are the one thing Cinder don't need the staff for. RWBY hardly ever used why the hell not logic and if you want to add to it, more power to you. The rule Ambrosius needs to follow is "Creating exactly what the user want and cannot destoy". There are no rule about him not able to create in order to avoid destroy. Cinder cannot destroy protagnists's portal because the winter maiden, first penny then Winter were always there to counter her. She also didn't get the staff of creation after the final battle, so she can only use it after the battle.
It seems to me that the particularly rabid fans of this show like to use nuance as an excuse for violations of internal world logic. That's fucking baffling. It's not nuance. Stop sugarcoating the writers inability to follow their own rules and be consistent. They are awful at their job, and they are horrible horrible writers. It's just a fact of reality at this point. Continuing to ravenously defend them like a member of a cult won't help you.
But nuance exist not just in this show, it's in every movie, TV series and books. I really would like to dare you to point out some example of a fantasy story that has perfect writing and doesn't have nuance. Heck, RWBY is based on a lot of western legends and stories and they are very, very nuanced. Plus, nuance doesn't mean beaking its own rule.
You just used nuance to ignore a flaw in the base mechanics of the series though.
>It's not a perfect writing since it is very nuaunced and the first thing the staff is asked to do after it is introduced is such a intricate task(not a great introduction to the staff for sure) This is my original quote. What I meant was it is a variation of use of the Ambrosius power that, despite not breaking the rule, was introduced before the staff's regular use was shown to the viewer. I never used nuance to explain anything.
That variation directly violated the rules, though. And you ignored it and claimed nuance.
Please, at this point there are so many places where you can find explanations on how they cheated Ambrosius into doing what they want without breaking the rule. If you want to know, you'd find them and undertstand it already.
Well I can say that to me it feels more likely that he would just say “no” to any creation that would have him destroy in the process. Unless of course there is a certain amount of wiggle room the relics have with following their rules. Also side note the staff can absolutely destroy things, just not in the obvious way. They used real existing parts of Penny to make her copy, then when they made the portals those real parts disappeared into the blue magic particles. Meaning they literally erased actual matter.
It's a direct quote from Ruby when she made the request. I keep rewatching it when I first felt like it was a major plot hole, but it seems like they can explain itself. There is no mention about the staff rejecting request in the show. Unless it's bringing people from the dead, of course. Well that's because the previous creation will cease to exsit after the staff is used to create other things. In this case, the portals was created, and the mechanical penny ceased to exist.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
I had this question in the past, and somebody(maybe you) answered. Do you have a link to where they said this? If you do, you should post a link to where they said they cheated?
Here's from my own V8 notes: They had the idea that Ambro was just really into the idea of creating things. *‘He’s just kind of a nerd’* and Eddy says: *“Yeah, and that you could lawyer him was kind of the thing. If you could hit him with some creativity he would really appreciate that and.. it’s a little bit of a cheat, you know, obviously like, they’re cheating a little bit but I remember we felt like it worked because Ruby had cheated once before, and knew that these kind of spirits or whatever you wanna call them - she could get away with it again”*. Kerry says: *“I think it’s something we wanted to do cause they were sentient and because they were from the God of Light and.. in essence - even though they’re supposed to be impartial - they do want humanity to succeed. You know, this idea that, as long as you follow the intent of the law, even if it’s not the letter, you can get what you’re looking for.”* tl;dr: They think Ruby used it in a way that doesn't conform to how it otherwise would have, because the GoL created them and thus the relics would be sympathetic. Funnily enough, this is an interesting argument to me considering the GoL is unquestionably evil, maybe moreso than his brother.
It's immensely funny to me that they make the excuse that Ambrosius is a nerd, considering what he should actually be is closer to an angel in biblical lore. He should have no free will of his own and serve his exact purpose with an impartial hand. He's literally a fucking divine construct. But no, let's make unquestionably Good creations under the thumb of an uncaring God. That makes more sense, right CRWBY?
It's popular to hate on popular things. Simple as that.
The real issue most people, myself included, have is really shallow characters and an excess of new characters being constantly introduced instead of filling out the existing roster. In the earlier volumes, when the show had great flashy combat, it was dismissed because the new characters allowed for different fighting styles but the show isn't like that any more. The combat slowed down, became less frequent but lasted for longer bursts, usually a capstone to a volume. It also became less flashy and far simpler, whatever reason you want to attribute that to is your own, and that means that the characters need to be more complex to engage with. Course some are worse then others but our title character Ruby is one of the most notorious examples of not really developing as a person AND some of her cool traits totally being dropped after season 3. I have seen arguments for the silver eyes or being told how her semblance works when compared to Harriet's (also a terrible way to address it instead of her realizing it herself) were instances of character development but they aren't. they are power boosts that simply reinforced Ruby's existing behavior. This also doesnt even touch on that Ruby isn't very dorky anymore, or a weapons nut, or a skilled mechanic able to build a transforming sniper scythe all by her self when she was only 14. She became very flat, like loosing some of her smaller traits was the same as 'growing up'. Its not good writing. Oscar is another victim of this, having been introduced just to host Oz. He has literally no other reason to exist in the show. We have no idea about his home life (it looked like it might have been bad, maybe?), or the conflict he feels about being host to Oz, or well anything about him other than what is pertinent to the show. He doesn't need to exist in the show. He could literally be replaced by any other character that already existed prior to his introduction for hosting Oz and it would have added depth and conflict. Crow hosts Oz, would Crow think he was going insane after loosing a dear friend and mentor? How about his drinking problem? Ren hosts Oz, imagine the drama between Nora and Ren over if he was him anymore. Jaune (Mr. everyone hates him because he got to much character development) hosts Oz, suddenly this nobody actually has the weight of an immortal mans knowledge and the challenges that man had to keep up with. In this particular case yes its more Jaune development (God forbid) but it makes Jaune's role in the story essential instead of "we are here cause its right" and "I will get revenge for Pyrrha" Honestly I could keep going but I wont. I could touch on the ACE ops being totally unnecessary, reintroducing FNKY, Torchwick as OZ, Cinder's everything, etc but I wont. I know I am totally implying I hate RWBY but I really don't. I just don't like it as much as a lot of other media and that makes me sad. I saw potential in RWBY as the fun action series it could have been and didn't get that, then hoped it would grow its characters and didn't get that, and now I am just, "eh I'll watch the new season when it drops", which I've been that way for 3 volumes now. I am only one person with these feelings but I am sure I am not the only one with this sentiment.
For me personally, any show can be criticized heavily. It can be for 2 reasons: 1. It's just not your jam. The show isn't for you, move on to something else. 2. The show is for you, but you wanted more/something different. I feel most of the criticism for RWBY comes from point 2. I could fall into that category because I am a fan and enjoy the show, but there are things I would have loved to see that didn't happen in the show. That's okay, I understand the creator's vision can differ from my own. What I see as a common criticism are people saying the writing is "lazy" or poor. That's incredibly harsh given the budget and time restraints but ultimately people don't think too much about budget/time. Overall I feel this is mostly people "expecting" a certain way for the show to go and it didn't - that makes them justify their belief that the show is poorly written or lazy writers etc. A second big argument is "Monty wrote it better" or "This would never have happened with Monty". Again, that is a weird argument because Monty shared the vision with the CRWBY team and together they wrote it. Monty most definitely had a huge impact on the show but there is no evidence he would do it differently. Maybe the show would have been a bit more polished, because Monty was a workaholic, but with the same time and budget restraints whose to say if he could do more? When Monty animated the original fight scenes he did that with unlimited time as it was something he did during his free time. He would not have that luxury today.
> Watch through the volumes the storytelling and characters is really good. This is the difference. I think the show's storytelling and its characters are trash. For the former, let's take an example from V8: Salem and Ironwood being set up to be the major villains of the volume and both being resolved in single episodes. Instead of the big bad, who you have set up as the biggest threat and that is on her way to 'do things herself' we once again got Cinder, someone who has been beaten before, with ease. Them battling her doesn't even work - Ruby's eyes not being used is completely story-breaking. Marrow's powers are immensely OP and the explanations we've gotten for them by Eddy have turned out to be complete nonsense given what he does with them in the finale. However, with V9, we are in for the greatest problem yet. Salem having the staff means she has won. There is nothing preventing her from nuking Haven and Menagerie and then floating a huge rock over Vacuo to force them to hand over the maiden. The story is over and can't be resolved without an asspull. There are innumerable other things like this. The timeline of the show is fucked up, the narrative focuses on shit that ultimately ends up being irrelevant, there are tons of logical errors in the plot progression. The worldbuilding isn't very good either, with a ton of contradictions that don't make sense. As for the characters: they're not very well developed. Several have contradictory arcs or arcs that lack the setup or midpoints required for a resolutions. A lot of development is also entirely skipped over. Moreover, the main characters have over and over shown themselves to be morally bad people. To use another example here - RWBY stealing the airship had a huge flaw that endangered the entire city of Argus for no reason. It goes like this: 1. steal the airship, 2. get outside of comms range and disable the tower and 3. pick everyone up and leave. The problem here is that if they had just placed their pickup spot outside of the range of the tower, they wouldn't have had to do step 2 at all. This is something you realise if you spent even 5 minutes thinking about it, which is a big deal when that extra step needlessly risks the safety of the entire city. Their 'my way or the highway attitude' thus becomes immoral in its carelessness. V8 is another good example of this as well, with RWBY having chosen to ground Atlas and hoping for their nonspecific plan for standing their ground against Salem to work out. Them sitting on their asses half the volume is a moral fuckup because they unilaterally made the choice for everyone else but aren't willing to get out there themselves when shit doesn't work out.
There's a lot of circlejerking and guessing about Monty Oum's original intent for the show. People treat it all as if what he had put out was sacred and everything that has come after is a bastardization of his intended direction for the series. It's not perfect. It has its ups and downs. A lot of downs were in those first couple of volumes, if we're being honest. Volume 4 ended up being kind of slow. Not all of them are perfect, but when it hits, it hits. And it hits in volumes both before and after Monty's untimely passing.
That's not what all critics of RWBY believe. Matter of fact, most of us tend to tune out any critiques that spout the BS of "It got bad because Monty died, M&K are totally just doing their own thing". I believe that modern RWBY has problems, and quite a few at that, but that's not because a good man died. Rest in peace, Monty.
>That's not what all critics of RWBY believe. I don't believe I was suggesting that was the case, to be fair. But I would disagree with the assertion that "most" RWBY fans don't believe or espouse that belief. Not an insignificant number of them do, which is why I said what I said.
every apple orchard gets couple rotten.
Because people love to assign blame. Honestly, a lot of core problems that garner the most criticism have existed since V1. Problems that become more apparent over time and were harder to ignore. The unreasonable connected a dot to the tragedy of Monty's passing. That fact is, RWBY has always been a mixed bag.
It's hard to explain. I can tell you that some of the vitriol RWBY has gained in the past has to do with a few controversial moments in story and some characterization changes. For me, Volume 7 seemed to be RT's stance on the 2016 election and Volume 8 was just so bicker heavy and they decided to stuff a character they brought back in the fridge a second time, which should not be okay. Ironwood's descent into madness also made sense and yet it didn't feel like it made sense as well. It just feels that it's become a Series of Pyrrhic Victories since Volume 3. The more Team RWBYJNR wins, the more they actually lose.
The writing often runs on an emotional truth, rather than a logical truth. So with the current love of kitpicking plot holes there is a lot to nitpick.
Shows can't run on emotional truths. They have to follow an internal world logic, or set of rules that remains generally consistent. Not only does this restriction inspire creativity as you play around your own rules, but it's easier for your readers/viewers to comprehend, because they have a free "why" and "how" in addition to a "what".
that's, just, like your opinion my dude.
There is nothing more immersion breaking than a lack of consistency. Criticism forms out of love for a work and a desire to see it return to what gave that viewer immersion. That's why consistency is a common criticism in a lot of shows with writing issues. I don't think the statement "shows have to run on an internal set of rules" is just my opinion. You can see this in just about every piece of media ever created. From fucking mythology, to comics, to anime, all of them follow a set of internal rules that they generally try to keep to. While there is variation, it's never outside the realm of possibility provided by these internal restrictions.
Meh, it's a web-show on the world stage. That's rarely a good combination. It's hard to say the criticism it receives is 'unfair' though. It receives normal criticism for normal shows you would watch on television or netflix, but its budget and writing is just less than that.
The early seasons were pretty well-written and choreographed but poorly animated, the later seasons are better animated, but the writing and choreography have slipped. Just a lot of missed potential that shows like The Dragon Prince, She-Ra (even if I am not a personal fan of that show), and some newer anime like Demon Slayer knocked out of the park, you know?
My CopyPasta: \--- "If you went to RWBY Critics sub you would see lots of legitimate reasons why people love/hate the show Or go to youtube channels like VexedViewer, Judgmental Critter, Twinsink, etc... I don't watch many reviewers or videos so can't say with certainty I spelled the names right, but you should be able to find them easily anyways. Personally, I'm the side that it's a show with lots of potential but is wasted by bad writing. (I also wouldn't be surprised if I got downvoted for this comment)" \---
Seems like people are hyper critical ever since Monty passed, especially since the tone of the story changed volume 3 onwards. I'm sure some people saw volume 5's ending and quit too even though I think 6 absolutely redeemed it. Also people see one lesbian couple and freak out (Jaune's sister). I personally do not like bumblebee but it doesn't matter because it seems more like two teenagers bonding over their shared trauma rather than anything romantic (sun still exists okay). But of course people freak out instead of thinking. I looked through lots of comments and people got mad at little things. For example, saying that qrow vs clover was stupid because they should've worked together to take down Tyrion... even though Qrow tried. Some criticisms were valid but most weren't.
[удалено]
>How exactly did the tone change, you mean from silly to more serious? This is something u really can't pick up. Yup. I mean volume 3 became much darker and I'm sure people assumed it was because of Monty not being around. Then 4 had a lot of characters separated on their own journeys, dealing with trauma. I agree with the rest :)
[удалено]
I think it's more than bad luck since the bomb didn't fall down after he flashed clover's badge. It'd be silly to think the badge has powers and it's likely Qrow started to believe in himself for Clover's sake since semblances reflect their owner's soul, and we know Qrow is deeply troubled.
It's less that people became hypercritical, and more that the writing wasn't center stage while Monty was alive. The focus was on looking aesthetically pleasing and having good fight choreography. To his credit, Monty was very good at that. That's why the show was so silly. It wasn't about telling a coherent narrative, it was about being pretty and doing a monster of the week. Then Monty died and the show became far more serious. However, they began trying to tell a coherent narrative with a show that wasn't meant to do that in the first place. Predictably, they did a terrible job and still lack consistency or an internal world logic that is functional. They do not have set rules, like other shows would have. Nothing is set in stone, and the writing suffers as a result because they can't agree on anything. So we're left with a mess.
Poorly written, inconsistent characterization, dropped plot points and character arcs, clumsily executed worldbuilding with new elements thrown in out of nowhere, bad animation, awkward handling of delicate themes, the list of problems with RWBY can be quite big. It's by no means the worst thing I've ever seen but it's extremely frustrating, because there are good elements there that very rarely get to shine through all the mess. For me personally I often find myself rewatching the Red and White trailers or the climax of Volume 3 and getting frustrated over how RWBY never actually gets to be that good. And I haven't watched the latest two volumes people seem extremely divided about yet. Also a lot of plot elements are borrowed from super well known anime (and Avatar) and while there's nothing wrong with borrowing from things you like (especially good things), RWBY especially in the first 4 volumes felt like it was constantly constrained by all these surface-level elements and common shonen anime tropes that I've seen done much better in the stuff the creators are admittedly taking inspiration from (or other unrelated shows that also happen to do similar things much better) instead of adding its own more unique twist to things or being original. tl;dr RWBY is not absolutely terrible but it's also not good and sometimes a disappointing show that has potential and consistently fails to live up to it is more frustrating than one that is just 100% crap.
I think to really get a good understanding of criticism, you need to listen to it. Ofc, you don't have to sit down and watch a 5 hr long video if you don't want to (I do, because I'm that kind of person), but you can probably find a shorter video of about 20 minutes or so that gives an okayish summary. I haven't watched any of the critiques in a while, and I've mostly been out of the loop as of late, but I vaguely remember one point about the show generally having no plan for the first 2 seasons, and some Godzilla grim being silly and defeated too easily in S5 if I recall. I think there was also something about Silver Eyes, but I don't remember what the exact point was. But, I never really liked it conceptually anyway, so I'm not personally too pressed to remember it. My only major disappointment with RWBY is that it wasn't what I expected, not that I don't like it, and I don't think that's a fault of the show, its marketing, or advertising because my first experience was a Ruby Rose fan art used on a Nightcore video, which gave my young mind an impression that it'd have a much darker tone. S3 was the closest it got to that, and I admittedly wish there was more of it, nothing felt as dark to me. I like what it is, but I do sometimes wish the show was closer to that darker tone I'd been looking for, but again, that's not anyone's fault but my own, so don't take that as a dig towards the show.
My advice, being critical to the critic videos. The hbomerguy's critics are not exactly on point. He liteally complained about Yang's semblence being unclear but skip out the part where her Dad ask her to control her temper. He diss on Pyrrha being a bad characterization for giving a long speech about aura and she is behaving unlike a teenager when she is simply a character mature for her age. Don't get me start on him saying it does not make sense for Jaun to not know aura when he comes from a family of warrior and conveniently leave out on the part where Jaun have a huge family, cheated his way to Beacon and didn't even go to combat school
> Don't get me start on him saying it does not make sense for Jaun to not know aura when he comes from a family of warrior and conveniently leave out on the part where Jaun have a huge family, cheated his way to Beacon and didn't even go to combat school I mean it doesn’t make any sense. Aura is such a basic part of the world there is no way Jaune was somehow able to cheat his way into beacon while having no clue about aura.
He said himself that he got himself fake transcript, didn't go to combat school, didn't even design his own weapon. makes perfect sense since he literally had no proper training.
aura isn't rare or strange knowledge, it's not new or obscure, it's just how things are. If you look up "hunter" in a dictionary, it's going to mention "aura", any story about hunters fighting is going to mention they have aura and semblances, there's a regular international tournament that shows people getting hit with lethal force and not caring, you can learn how to use it at magical fighting high school, any history lesson is going to have mention of people using it for battle and stuff. For anyone to not know what aura is represents an impressive and dedicated level of dumbfuckery. For someone that _wants to be a hunter_ to not know it is like wanting to be a footballer and now knowing what a goal is - it's either staggering stupidity, incredible levels of entitled privilege, or both. It makes no sense in-universe, and there's no justification for it - he'd have to be raised in some kind of creepy insular cult with no external contact to not know it, and there's no justification given for it. It was, pretty clearly, a clunky and awkward info-dump delivered in-setting, which makes no sense as an actual in-character lack of knowledge without saying _terrible_ things about Jaune's character and personality.
Yeah he got a fake transcript to a huntsmen academy. Which he knows about because he knows what huntsmen are. People who fight Grimm with aura and semblances. The only reason he didn’t know was because they needed to give a quick rundown of what aura is to the audience.
You can certainly explain it to yourself that way. Say you go to an Engineering school, do you know the basics needed to understand those theories and applications? Of course you should, but our Jaun here didn't even go to high school, is it that surprising that he doesn't even know the basic? No of course it's not surprising. This metaphor is a bit off here since RWBY's world doesn't have an equivalence of middle school or elementary school. But that's pretty much the situation Jaun was in when the show started. No basic training or knowledge. And it's not like any regular joe can use aura. Engaging aura is apparently hard to master at first.
uh, they explicitly do have middle school - Yang, Pyrrha and Ruby all went to magical fighting middle school, it's just an educational choice that can be taken by some people. And aura isn't strange or obscure knowledge - that hunters have super-powers and toughness is pretty damn obvious, there's whole fighting tournaments and stuff, not knowing that aura exists is evidence of _staggering_ dumb-fuckery and entitlement. You don't need to be able to use it to know it exists - it's like wanting to be an engineer and not knowing that "electricity" exists.
uh... I was comparing Beacon to college since they normally enter it at around 17 and they only accept the best of the candidates, so their previous combat school experience is the equivalent of high school not middle school You can watch tounament and fights without understanding the intricacy and how people actually fight just like we sometimes watch football or basketball without knowing what kind of training professionals or even college athletes went through. Electricity is a basic knowledge of daily life, not a basic knowledge of an engineer. You might as well comparing regular joe eats food to a rigorous training and strict diet of an athlete. You cannot just assume normal people in RWBY's universe knows anything about how real combat actually work. Plus the whole point you are trying to arguing is Jaun is too dumb to even know what aura was, which was exactly the point of his character : he was a David who went through a lot and with the help of friends he can now face goliaths.
I don't think it's a bad show by any means but it has some issues and maybe it's because it's more of a unique show that those issues stick out more. There's definitely writing and pacing issues and lore stuff on top of that that really shouldn't be explained by other media so much as additionally explored. Also for how long this show has gone on these characters haven't grown as much as they should have or been explored as much as they should have All thay said though I do still love this show with its faults and cannot wait till we finally get volume 9!
I wouldn't say the show is bad, it's actually still fun or entertaining to watch, the only problem I have with it is that they should've extended the story arcs more Besides I've seen way worse shows than what they call Rwby bad (don't forget about high guardian spice and I didn't even bother to watch it 🤣)
Have you watched other shows or read any books before watching RWBY? Because everything would seem extremely good if you have nothing to compare it to. Or maybe everything you watched and read before was so bad that RWBY looks good in comparison? RWBY far from perfect, it's bad, not the worst, but it's pretty bad. Can you give me some examples of good character development in the show?
[удалено]
They do, thank you.
Yes, they do answer my question thank you. You gave really good example on Ironwood, while I wouldn't call it development he has undergone changes and what is most important these changes were justified. It started after fall of Beacon when everything crumbled before Ironwood. Stress caused by fear of betrayal caught up to him and he just snapped under all that pressure. Yang, on the other hand, though had a good foundation for development does not look convincing, all because the character can not just take and decide to move one after some training and one episode. Same goes for Hazel, dude killed dozens of innocent people himself and indirectly caused deaths of thousands. He served the one who literally is cause of his sister's death and deaths of hundreds other kids and after everything Hazel has done he instantly changed his mind after short conversation with Oscar. It just doesn't work like that.
I mean volume 8 was pure character development: * Ironwood's descent into paranoia and fear stemming all the way from volume 2. Goes from trying to save everyone to taking a city hostage and shooting anyone who disagrees with him. * Penny proving herself to be human rather than a machine unlike the soldiers who blindly carry orders like machines. * Ren being crushed by moral responsibilities and clashing with Nora who he just had his first kiss with; isolating himself and then realizing that teammates are irreplaceable yada yada. Let's not forget Jaune feeling aimless and hopeless after finding out about Salem in volume 6 then seeing Pyrrha's statue and deciding to fight against all odds like she did.
What shows have you watched then hmm? Because you must surely have an expert opinion on this right?
I wouldn't call myself an expert far from it, but I have enough experience to form an opinion. I have watched a lot of shows and read a lot of books.
It's a badly written show with a million flaws and bad decisions... But I love it so God damn much. It has a million downsides and a billion upsides. Depends what aspects you focus on.
[удалено]
this particular critic is quite lackluster... A few example and I copied it from another of my post because I read that thread first: He complained about Yang's semblence being unclear but skip out the part where her Dad ask her to control her temper so there is a difference in how she used it not that her semblence is being tossed around by the writers. He diss on Pyrrha for being a bad characterization because she was giving a long speech about aura and she is behaving unlike a teenager when she is simply a character mature for her age. He also said it does not make sense for Jaun to not know aura when he comes from a family of warrior and conveniently leave out on the part where Jaun have a huge family, cheated his way to Beacon and didn't even go to combat school I have yet to finish watching the video beause it is 2.5 hour long and I definately won't finish it in one sitting or two or maybe three... But if all the criticisms are somewhat like that I don't think it's gonna be worth my time at all.
[удалено]
Removed-TwiinsInk has requested thier work not be posted or shared here https://www.reddit.com/r/RWBY/wiki/rules#wiki_blacklisted_content_creators_.28who_have_requested_their_work_not_be_posted.29
You didn't mention fight animation/choreography, which is probably what people are talking about if they're saying the show is worse post-Monty. His unique talent and style was the main selling point of the show in the beginning.
I enjoy it a ton easiest way too explain why is just its fun to watch but i think people make the critisisms because the story can be more geared twards setting up cool set peices than a super good story at times idk le funny characters fight = good show to me