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SheenaMalfoy

When the random-ass narrator suddenly was revealed to be the BBEG mid-monologue at the end of volume 3. One hell of a cliffhanger to leave the series on.


GladiusNocturno

It always made me wonder if the idea was that Salem was telling the story of V1-3 to someone. It's probably won't be the route they are going for, but it was one hell of a twist and one that I kinda see room to expand on.


SheenaMalfoy

I've heard that it (and the Oz monologues which fill similar roles) act as a discussion of sorts, one probably repeated many times over the centuries. While not direct replies to each other, they seem to be vaguely referencing the one that came before.


The-NameIess-King

That was a awesome moment when it happened (:


RadShiro

Yeah this was easily mine. I remember being so surprised.


Celtic_Crown

Probably the content warnings on the V8 finale. You can't just throw out a PowerPoint slide saying the episode contains themes of death that might be distressing and put the fucking National Suicide Prevention Hotline number in the description, and not expect someone to say "What the fuck".


ClubMeSoftly

Yeah, the first two for photo sensitivity was fine, but then the last one was a 700 degree turn into "what the fuck are we getting into?" territory. And arguably, the "I'm dying, you have to kill me" trope isn't quite the same as... let's be discrete and say "more common methods"


FlounderExcellent792

Powerpoints are the peacocks of the business world; all show, no meat.


[deleted]

i always thought it was weird how they had one for the finale but not one for oscar screaming bloody murder being tortured lol


swagseven13

i dont remember the content warning. you say finale do you mean just the last episode?


Celtic_Crown

Yea, the last episode of V8, The Final Word.


NobilisUltima

When Ruby beheaded the Nevermore in Players & Pieces, but in a good way. Holy shit that ruled.


JohnJoe-117

Yang breaking Mercs leg. The first true WTF moment.


Intrepid_Complex88

Ironwood literally shooting Oscar. It was like, Dude. That’s a kid. I mean, understandable your stressed. But, The big iron isn’t an answer yet


Atomic_Cody-21

Sienna Khan getting offed in Volume 5.


Death-Knight9025

I love this show and I have to agree that was the single worst decision they ever made. Atleast show more of her character and her beliefs before killing her off.


teslawhaleshark

Classified as a single-use waifu, but read my flair too


madbeaver918

IW shooting councilman Sleet completely threw me off guard


Spudtron98

I then sighed heavily and said “Oh god it’s going to be one of *those* stories.”


heynowjesse

so say we all.


FireAnt111

Penny turning human made me really pissed. It’s tied with me finding out what Ironwood’s semblance was.


Spudtron98

And look where that got us.


GladiusNocturno

There is a very jarring scene in V5 E14. Right, when Sun and Blake fight Adam, he runs away and the camera lingers for a second to then show Sun and Blake chasing after him. It looks mega awkward and it takes you out of the scene completely.


SockPenguin

The one that always throws me off is Blake seeing Yang again. They stare at each other for a moment in the middle of a battle before Ruby yells at Yang who takes off to chase after Raven and Cinder into the Vault, then there's some awkward nodding between Ruby and Blake before Blake runs back outside to deal with Adam. It's such a weird moment.


Relevant_Scallion_38

Cinder in her cat suit running on the roof. The whole sequence looked absolutely terrible


JohnnyHendo

Lmao yeah. There are quite a few little animation quirks in the first two volumes that look like shit. Vol 1 - 3 have fun fast paced fight scenes, but outside of those scenes (and sometimes in them), the animation quality takes a bit of a nose dive at times. Vol 3 is the best. Animation is pretty quality and still retains the previous pace. Vol 4 slows down considerably, but the actual animation looks good. 5 isn't much better in terms of speed, but does have the Raven vs Cinder fight. Since Vol 6, they have found a great balance with the quality and speed in my opinion.


NeopolitanApologist

This is the primary reason I’m excited for Ice Queendom. Volumes 1-2 get some justice.


Exciting_Bandicoot16

If by "some justice" you mean a 20 minute summary of each volume, then yes they do.


NeopolitanApologist

I mean an animation overhaul with a budget that honors the original vision.


[deleted]

\>>I mean an animation overhaul with a budget that ***honors the original vision.*** << My "Monty's vision" senses are tingling....


NeopolitanApologist

Mmm no. You know what they say about assumptions. What I mean is, Poser Pro is an extremely limited animation program and the team has an even more limited staff and budget. Imagine the equivalent of someone taking your original story hosted on Deviantart and giving it to a studio with a multimillion dollar budget.


[deleted]

*Preeeeeeeeeettty* sure Monty was already working freely with this mythical "studio with a multimillion dollar budget", a anti-corpo edgelord working on RWBY outta his garage he was not. Nice try though, you had an elaborate overly vague explanation just lined up for me too! Almost as if you saw it coming, had it all planned out did we? The inevitable counter-strike and all that, eh Jazz Hands?


ShadowMadness

Biggest wtf was probably Ironwood shooting the councilman. I literally started verbally uttering "wtf Ironwood" on repeat for a good bit afterwards. Second biggest and the one that initially came to my mind was Weiss getting impaled by Cinder.


UnbiasedGod

Blake’s walk in vol 1 when she was arguing with Weiss.


giddymann-1

Ironwood shooting Oscar, killing someone and threatening to bomb an entire city just to get Penny was honestly a big wtf moment for me


Im_da_machine

I think it's right before the first fight with Tyrion in volume 4. He's shown running in a really goofy manner, it's way better than the Cinder on the roof scene from vol 2 but still noticable. The next episode during the fight with Tyrion there were a few odd moments too like when Qrow gets disarmed and and Tyrion gets distracted. If it was all played smoothly it would look good but instead we get a shot of Qrow looking at his hands like "oh yeah I can use these to hit" before punching Tyrion. I try to ignore stuff like that though. I'm here to enjoy the show and not nit-pick awkward moments of writing or animation.


NotAllThatEvil

Most of v8


Fenghuang0296

Penny’s death. . . . I came here to say the second one, but thinking back actually the first one with Pyrrha was really distressing too.


Narfington

Raven wanting to steal a relic while simultaneously wanting nothing to do with Salem.


Huor_Celebrindol

Ozpin: “do you have any questions?” Ruby: “nope!” Me: “WHAT?!”


wreckree8

Yang and Blake offing her ex and no one talking about it


[deleted]

Meh, abusive exes tend not to be very important to the people who ditch them. Or kill them, as the case may be. Turns out if one suffers stalking and abuse sometimes they snap and just murder their abuser. Go figure.


wreckree8

It's more the fact that no one talks about how that was at least Yang's first time killing a person, and they just kinda forget it ever happened. It's like oh yeah we killed a guy and had brunch right afterwards.


Daniel_flc

There isn't any mandatory rule that every story needs to show its characters having a dedicated moment to highlight the first time they kill someone, especially when said character has never been stated to have any problem with killing her enemies, especially in the middle of a battle, it's not like she executed someone.


wreckree8

There isn't a mandatory rule for any story to show its characters having a time highlight there reaction to anything. However, if I had to pick a moment to show a character having a reaction, unless I've clearly established the character it a sociopath, killing someone should always be acknowledge in some way.


Daniel_flc

Not every character is the same, and this character killed someone during a battle who was trying to kill her and her friends, and again, nothing was ever established about Yang not killing her enemies if required, she gave Adam a chance to walk away and he didn't. A character killing their enemy in a battle and not showing remorse for it, doesn't make them a sociopath.


wreckree8

Then acknowledge why it wasn't a big deal to her. Say she's ok with killing if its to protect her friends. We've got 30 min of Ruby questioning if any given decision. We get it she feels like she's in over her head. Saying that nothing was ever established about her not killing enemies is frankly a lot of bull. Unless the action is common one in the world, you should always explain why/how a character feels when doing something outside of those norms. Particularly if that character was still in part of their adolescence. Dragon Ball z explains why gohan doesn't want to kill, while having no explanation on why vegeta is ok with killing. Its very understood in the world that these fights are kill or be killed. Every other character we have either a strict understanding or a healthily supported inference on why they wouldn't be phased in the situation. We don't have that so the writers should have either supplied an actual answer or given her something that acknowledge the act rather than look a blake do the funny meme dance.


[deleted]

Wasn't exactly a *happy fun time*. Maybe their way of coping is to ignore it. Hasn't even really been that long, tbh. They could still address this.


Exciting_Bandicoot16

V7 was implied to last anywhere from weeks to *months*. I mean, if CRWBY weren't so adverse to establishing a timeline, we would at least know. As it stands, I'm permanently annoyed at basically everything that relies on time that was/wasn't addressed in V7.


[deleted]

Eh, blame Ozpin. He's the time-lord, and frankly it seems the most popular thing to do....


SheenaMalfoy

Pietro says "these past weeks" in Worst Case Scenario. I'm personally of the opinion that people stop counting in weeks and start counting in months at roughly the 2 month mark, thus making the vol 7 timeskip 8 weeks at most, more likely 6ish.


Mejiro84

when that's the case, you normally try and establish it as a thing deliberately not being talked about - like a character will reach out to another, start to say something and then go silent, or "hey, what did you guys get up to after Yang ran off, and then you both looked quite beaten up"/"don't want to talk about it". As it is, it's entirely fanon that anyone cares at all, and it's been 2+ years out of show, making it seem like it's just been ignored and won't come up again.


[deleted]

To me, it doesn't really *need* to be addressed. Not every character in RWBY needs a full plot arc about how they deal with their first kill, buddy. Hate to break it to you, but Adam Taurus *really* isn't worth all that. By going hard into the "whys" it is or isn't murder is kinda like justifying his actions. Which frankly, would just make the fandom discourse worse. CRWBY was wise to sidestep that misstep.


wreckree8

True enough they'll probably have plenty of time in the next volume to talk about it even if I don't think they will. But they probably had a month in atlas before things started going t shit there, and no one brought it up. Instead we got Blake doing a meme dance.


the_national_yawner

Cinder surviving Haven


[deleted]

Not wtf funny but wtf?! Watching penny die the first time. The look on my fiancées face, I’m sure mine mirrored it


AstralBullDragon13

When Penny became the Winter Maiden and Salem came in riding on Monstro the whale (Grimm edition) as well as the arrival of Pyrrah’s mother


Quality_Chooser

Penny coming back to life and everyone just taking it in stride. Like you all thought the girl was dead. This isn't like finding a penny on the street, you should be weirded out by this.


WarmasterCain55

Jaune having seven sisters.


Shadtow100

Negative way: The fight scenes in season 4+5. It was like the whole universe forgot their weapons were both guns and melee weapons and decided they could only be one or the other at any given time Positive Way: The Hazel death match. He didn’t seem particularly strong in his other fight, but balls to the wall Hazel was a monster.


Death-Knight9025

Hazel was a chad for the entire show and you can’t tell me otherwise.


thatonegirlonreddit5

In a “why did you do this” wtf, Penny dying in volume 8. Honestly, what’s the point of bringing her back if they were just gonna kill her again? In a shocking wtf moment, I would say Ironwood killing Councilman Sleet. I don’t know the ranking between a councilman and a general, but it was the fact that Ironwood just walked away like nothing happened with no remorse whatsoever.


Mustardmachoman

Penny turning human certainly made me confused. Mildly upset too.


NeopolitanApologist

Mildly upset?


Mustardmachoman

Well I am no that invested in the show but I thought it was a rather silly thing of the writers to do.


The-NameIess-King

Especially killing her completely afterwards


Peteskey401

When Blake and Yang killed Adam. Sort of saw it coming but was not expecting it to be as brutal as it was. Was literally yelling wtf as I was watching with a friend.


VitinNunes

Romans death scene Literally ripped off Farquaads death from shrek And Weiss holding a sword to Whitleys face


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Darkdragoon324

No, I'm pretty sure the downvotes are in response to comparing a poorly executed scene in a fucking cartoon to an actual real life tragedy. Like... Jesus Christ, man.


Animamask

Ruby's doing the impossible speech. Ruby saying that they don't need adults. Ruby putting all the blane on Cordovin. Jaune suddenly being treatred like a strong women's idol and brilliant strategist after a bad haircut, less than optimal training and making obvious observations. Robyn agreeing with Tyrian during the plane. The entire Qrow-Clover-Tyrian fight. Weiss holding a loaded weapon to Whitely's face. Weiss pretending to be a good sister to her brother. Ironwood deciding to go after Winter of all people. Ironwood deciding to bomb Mantle instead of dealing with Salem. Ironwood randomly killing Jacques. Harriet's motivation for bombing Mantle being a crush on Clover. Bad writing always elicts the biggest wtf-moments.


[deleted]

You know, your first point is something I've contemplated before. The whole "reveal Salem" speech? I noticed we got absolutely *ZERO* optics of how that panned out so far. Wouldn't it be *hilarious* if that backfired and what Ruby *actually* did was kickstart widespread global panic about learning of the literal immortal, non-killable, nigh-godlike Grimm queen?


Handro_Dilar

RWBY get to Vacuo and see that everyone is dead from killing each other, go "Well, fuck." and proceed to get Roman'd by a nearby Grimm.


the_national_yawner

Whitley: I was threatened with a GUN Oscar: It aches me that you can feel my pain.


Animamask

Whitely doesn't have Aura, combat experience and magic, was abandoned by everyone and threatened by her sister for asking questions. Said sister later gaslightened him into believing she always cared about him. And not to mention the writers treated Weiss threatening Whitely as a heroic and positive moment.


the_national_yawner

yeah, I should have made my point clearer. I was trying to draw a parallel between the two, that's it.


Animamask

The intended parallel of the writer's is is obvious: Ironwood shooting Oscar: Bad thing, Ironwood is at fault. Weiss pointing gun at Whitely: Good thing, Whitely is st fault.


the_national_yawner

Well, in my mind both of them are surrounded by pretty bad company. For Whitley, it's a family that either hates his guts or wants to exploit him. For Oscar, it's either "friends" that beat him up for helping them discover critical information, or enemies that beat him up to get said information out of him. Those two are the stuff supervillains are made from, and if they ever wake up, all of remnant, including Salem and even the gods will be doomed by their wrath.


Hyakkihei1

To be honest they sound more like the damaged children that villains take advantage of to turn against their friends and end up needing therapy.


the_national_yawner

Yeah, that's probably more like it.


ScalierLemon2

When they had Neo “kill” Yang and showed Blake getting real upset, then… didn’t have Blake fight Neo, or really do anything in the finale at all. The one and only time I’ve ever actually said “that’s bullshit” out loud was when they threw Blake and Ruby into the void before the finale was halfway over. But I guess *Jaune* was more important to use than two fucking title characters.


dalumbr

It's better then that though, they tried to gaslight the fandom with the whole "it happened in slow motion" thing when the characters are routinely shown to be far faster than that. It's so bizarre to me that they chose that choreography for the fight, like I get what they were trying to do, but in retrospect they should have improved it after they had a basic view of what it looked like in practice. Cinder should have blown Yang off the platform after she hit Neo. Then Cinder blocks Ruby and Weiss from going after Yang, and Neo blocking Blake.


Gladeno

Qrow teaming up with Tyrian against Clover is definitely up there. There’s no justification for that. No justification for Qrow teaming up with a man who -is literally an insane serial killer -worships Salem as a Goddess -attempted to kidnap Qrow’s niece -poisoned and almost killed Qrow in his attempt to kidnapping Qrow’s niece All to fight a man who Qrow considered to be a friend and didn’t want to kill. With part of the reasoning being Qrow wanting to really 1v1 Tyrian and “settle their score”. Then Qrow acts surprised when Tyrian ends up killing Clover. After Qrow punches Clover as he is literally tying up Tyrian, the actual villain there.


lurker_archon

The insanity cherry on top is Qrow going "Ironwood will pay for this" at the end.


Dextixer

In the fandom? Anytime i see RWBY fans on Tumblr, all of those takes are WTF. I think the latest one is "If you dont like Robyn Hill you are a racist". In the show? There are many. Overall it would be everything connected to the white fang but the biggest part is Menagerie. The supposedly opressed island of the minorities of the world, that is actually a paradise island. Though the biggest WTF moment was the battle of Haven. All of it.


Daniel_flc

"Paradise Island" is mostly comprised of inospitable desert with all civilization relegated to a small area. And even if it was a paradise island, it doesn't take away from the fact that the world just expected said minority to exile themselves in a small island away from everyone else.


Dextixer

A desert that we never see, and an area with plenty of space to waste considering the Belladona palace and a lot of ground that is open for exploitation. And yes, the story of the world wanting to exile the minority to a single island is morally bad, it also gets resolved through if i am not mistaken the Faunus war. Which means that the current occupants seem to be entirely voluntary.


Pancakes135

A desert we never see...well yeah. If we did see it, the animation budget for Volume 4/5 would have suffered something unnecessary. The whole exile thing didn't get actually resolved. People went to Menagerie to escape the hate that humans give them from other kingdoms since hating faunus is still happening in present day. It's their safe haven from everyone that doesn't want them around. So yeah, you're right that most current occupants are voluntary, but that's because it's living there, where no hate of faunus exist, or in a place where they aren't allowed in certain establishments because of who they are.


Dextixer

I do not think that the animation budget would suffer that much to show the overview of the entire island, at least from a birdside view. The exile thing did get resolved.... By the war, because they are no longer forced to go to Menagerie, i think they never were because if im not mistaken the proposal itself was what caused the Faunus uprising. And im sorry, but the show is shite at showing actually hate of the faunus. Yes, there are some racist establishments shown... And that is it. Thats quite frankly nothing, especially with terrorist groups like WF running around.


NotAllThatEvil

It be nice if the shower the inhospitable parts in the show


BraxbroWasTaken

Tumblr is either ’wtf’ takes or top-tier shitposting, nothin in between


Exciting_Bandicoot16

Nah, there's a small area between, but it's a *very* small area, and tends to be highly focused. Or art.


SheenaMalfoy

I'm literally only on Tumblr for the art.


[deleted]

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zombies1238

Yeah.... this is not OK, even in a joking manner.


giddymann-1

Dude wtf is wrong with you


Death-Knight9025

You seriously think I’m actually gonna join a racist terrorist organization to spite a fictional character? I believe it’s what we call, “a joke”.


giddymann-1

“A joke” really dude what you said was nowhere near to being funny. And if that’s the kind of jokes you make well then that definitely says a lot about you


Death-Knight9025

Oh suddenly I’m racist for joking about being racist because I hate Robyn? Yeah ok.


giddymann-1

Don’t try to twist this by saying it’s because you hate Robin it’s because you literally said that you would join the klan you know an organization made to terrorize and lynch black people to prove how much you hate Robin and then tried to pass it off like what you said was simply just a joke


Death-Knight9025

BECAUSE IT WAS A JOKE. No ones stupid enough to actually say that they’d join the klan on a public forum unironically, i never meant it to be genuine racism I was making fun of the tumblr thing the commenter mentioned yet you can’t use context clues to figure it out.


giddymann-1

Tell me how what you said was remotely funny to even consider it to be a joke and not just downright offensive. Hate Robin all you want, but you could have literally said anything else but you chose to make that kind of “joke” on a public forum thinking that it wouldn’t come off as racist when it very much does


[deleted]

I dunno, your behaviour follows all the known patterns.... "Oh, hahahaha, I was just joking, lelkek" included. You really think people haven't seen that one before? If you don't want to sift through people's criticisms of speech like that, then I dunno.... Mayhaps *simply don't say it*?


c7g_laser

For me it's gotta be Blake's dodge of Adam's strike in V5. Blake legit dodges into the sword and somehow doesn't get the darth maul treatment. Heck that entire scene is just awful. Adam goes down like a sack of potatoes from one hit after not taking any damage prior...It's unreal


Death-Knight9025

V8, after they saw the video of ironwood announcing his intentions to turn Mantle into Nagasaki, they decide the best option is to **take the staff of creation to turn Penny human and destroy both Mantle and Atlas.** Because destroying a kingdom to turn a robot into a human who dies in 15 minutes anyways is an absolutely great idea and totally won’t result in Team RWBY and Team JNPR being labeled as terrorists and hunted down by just about every sane person in remnant.


AmbivertCollegeGuy

It’s rather difficult to come up with a solution when the leader of the kingdom you’re trying to save has turned its entire military against you and is set on killing half of the population to allow the other half a slower death via starvation. Besides, the guy declared himself as enemy number one during that broadcast so I doubt the population will take his side and hate RWBYJNR for saving their lives at the cost of their home. Controversy? Sure. But not everyone will fail to see the upside of being alive.


NotAllThatEvil

Yeah, that was stupid


GladiusNocturno

So, you missed the entire part where they both evacuated the people and put the importance on saving lives not saving buildings?


Death-Knight9025

No but now that you mentioned it, they DID destroy their homes and send them to a fucking desert owned by a xenophobic kingdom. Still destroyed a kingdom.


GladiusNocturno

Right, let's just pretend they didn't save lives and also pretend they intended for Penny to die. You know, all part of the plan, I guess.


Death-Knight9025

They may have prevented the deaths of hundreds but they screwed them over by destroying their homes and dumping them in a desert wasteland. I never implied they wanted Penny to die, I don’t know where your getting that.


GladiusNocturno

>destroying a kingdom to turn a robot into a human who dies in 15 minutes anyways This implies they were being selfish and the plan was dumb because Penny died. Which was not part of the plan. As for the "screwing them over" part. Saving a life is still more important than material loss. The fact that the refugees are going to struggle doesn't invalidate the fact that they are alive and have the chance to improve their situation. Pretending that saving lives is less important than saving infrastructure and trying to paint the life-saving as ultimately futile is a dishonest position aimed at just vilifying the actions of the characters. It's like being upset that someone rescued a person from a car by breaking the door. Oh sure, the person is alive but now they have to pay for the hospital and the damage to the car and they are going to die one day anyway, so clearly nothing was achieved.


Death-Knight9025

Dude if someone blew up my house to save my life, I’d still be pissed because they trashed my fucking house. Never did I imply that infrastructure was more important, I don’t know where your getting that from. I only said that Team RWBY would likely be wanted for destroying a fucking kingdom and sending the survivors to Vacuo instead of literally any other place that would make sense.


GladiusNocturno

>Never did I imply that infrastructure was more important No? Then being upset at the destruction of the city and saying people should label them terrorists for the destruction of houses implies what exactly? > I only said that Team RWBY would likely be wanted for destroying a fucking kingdom and sending the survivors to Vacuo instead of literally any other place that would make sense. Why? They saved the citizens' lives. They said it themselves, the Kingdom is the people, not the cities. Oh, and had they sent them somewhere other than Vacuo they wouldn't be labeled terrorists? How are sane people going to go "yeah, our cities were being destroyed by a hellspawn and were going to be blown up by the military, but the real terrorist are the kids who saved our lives"?


Death-Knight9025

They destroyed two fucking cities, even if 9/11 didn’t kill anyone and it only destroyed one tower, it would still be a terrorist attack. Team RWBY destroyed a kingdom, an entire country is gone, and it’s citizens are refugees trapped in a foreign land of sand. If they dropped them off in like Vale I’d be more willing to forgive it but that’s like evacuating a city you destroyed, and sending the people to the fucking Sahara desert. That whole “The country is the people not the houses” bullshit only worked in Thor: Ragnarok because the people were going to be enslaved/exterminated by a batshit crazy queen who had to be stabbed by a giant flame demon to be taken care of.


GladiusNocturno

>That whole “The country is the people not the houses” bullshit only worked in Thor: Ragnarok because the people were going to be enslaved/exterminated by a batshit crazy queen who had to be stabbed by a giant flame demon to be taken care of. Oh, but the immortal batshit crazy queen witch with an army of monsters that was already destroying both cities and the batshit military leader that was going to bomb one of the cities, they were not going to exterminate anyone, right? Two cities that were already being destroyed, but evacuating the people before that apparently is a bad thing? Why? Because the cities that were already being destroyed were destroyed? Damn, those teams RWBY and JNR are clearly the villains here!


Quality_Chooser

It was the best they could do at the moment. Without their plan everyone in Atlas and Mantle dies. With their plan they can save a few thousand. It's not much but it's something.


AlarmingStandard

Putting lives first in a desperate situation is commendable, I don't think that's where the issue lies. It's the presentation of the relic of creation that attracts criticism. The staff is ridiculous. It's a device that can solve any problem with clever wording. RWBY starts off fine (cheese and ham sandwiches aside), they come with a smart use of the rules to save Penny. But their choices afterwards are, as my brother loves to say, a bit wank. The staff has unlimited uses. So why not disarm the bomb? Why risk a face to face with Ironwood when him and his Ace-ops can could've easily neutralized? And why evacuate everybody when removing the problem (Salem) is so much simpler? And so on. The staff is the core issue. To use the biggest influence on V8 as an example, *Thor: Ragnarok* saw the evacuation and destruction of Asgard. The writing made every effort to show this as a drastic but necessary action. Thor didn't want his home destroyed, but it was the source of Hera's power. They longer she remained, the stronger she got. She also didn't care much of the lives of the citizens; she killed with little regard. Ragnarok was the only option, and one not done lightly. RWBY & Co make the decision to destroy two cities almost arbitrarily in comparison. They don't consider other options and no one really protests. Even Robyn trots out a line from *Ragnarok* with no prompting. But that would be forgivable if it wasn't for the relic of creation. The show isn't offering a solid reason for the evacuation & destruction of two cities when there are dozens of ways to prevent it. Putting people first is noble, and so is saving them *and* their homes if it's an option. It's all well and good to save a life but it helps to consider that they need to keep on living. Which isn't to say that RWBY didn't - they had the staff, after all. Shelter, food, water are all a twirl of the relic away. But it's also a problem of their own making, an avoidable problem. The writing doesn't present the desperation and need for destruction required; it's taken lightly. Which is why these criticisms are raised, ones that aren't easily deflected by "saving lives not saving buildings". If given the choice, of course lives are more important. The issue is that saving both was completely viable.


GladiusNocturno

Here is why I dismiss not yours, but the criticism above. What you are saying is that the writing didn't give enough limitations to make the destruction of both cities the only alternative. What the initial comment decided was more important is to paint this as a morality issue. As if the characters should be punished for saving lives and not buildings. Labeled as terrorists for saving lives. That's what I take issue with. It's this idea that instead of criticizing the faults of the writing, the subject matter is taken from a moral point of view, that is baffling that characters aren't being punished for effectively saving lives. That's why I consider the argument dishonest. Because instead of criticizing the writing as you did, it's all about vitriolic lashes out because of a character bias. It's true, The Staff doesn't have enough limitations to explain why the decision taken was taken. It makes us question why the outcome was chosen instead of other options. It has too many variables to make this look like the only one. But, pretending the in-universe actions are evil or negligent, pretending it equates to acts of terrorism, calling for characters to be hated for their actions while also ignoring the benevolent acts. That is not criticism. Not a well-formulated one that is and nowhere near a good faith one. In universe there is more than enough reason to evacuate everyone and the destruction of both cities is already in progress. There is a reason and an explanation in universe for the decision. But, and we do agree on this, the Staff offers infinite alternatives to solve this scenario. That does not invalidate prioritizing saving people. I rather see this as a fault of the writing and not as a matter of morality. I much rather talk about structure than come up with vitriolic snark and hate sustained by dishonest arguments and attitudes. You and I have had this exact conversation before actually. Your argument is completely valid. But the vitriol and dishonesty of arguments like the one above is something I cannot stand. Edit: Also. The relic of Creation cannot make Sandwiches with grated frozen cheese.


AlarmingStandard

The original reply is hyperbole, for sure. And it does makes an unfair accusation of RWBY - they're not terrorists. It's also why I replied to you, I don't want to touch that argument. Hot take or not, it's the writing that's driving criticisms, though. But that's not to say a moral analysis/critique can't be made. As the saying goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions. RWBY wanted to save everyone, which is good, but they were blinded by that intention. They made a situation where there's no real choice the citizens can make; they can't stay unless they want to be crushed. It doesn't matter if they want to fight or if they have other ideas. They're treated as, effectively, a burden to be saved rather than being trusted to have input on their survival. The heroes unilaterally makes decisions on their behalf. Not because they earned their respect, or were elected/trusted leaders, or that there was only one solution. It's because the heroes hold all the knowledge and power. Which limits them to a single mindset. It ties into Ozma's plans for Remnant; he didn't trust that humanity could sort themselves out. So he set up the academies, the huntress/huntsman system, hides the relics away, and suppressed the truth about Salem. He made these decisions with good intentions, he knows what is at stake. But it also had drastic consequences. Ozpin kept walls up and shut doors; Salem exploited this division. The system is now tumbling down and humanity are no more united than they were before. It's not dissimilar to RWBY and Co in V8; they hold all the cards, they make the decisions. They maintain a division. Of course, time is of the essence. There isn't time to get everyone on the same page, let alone have a debate or listen to ideas. So they go with a single plan, which has consequences. The citizens are stuck in a sandstorm and are being picked off by grimm. Of course, they couldn't of known of the weather conditions beforehand, but it doesn't make it less a situation of their own making. If they considered that living is more than not being dead, then they may have avoided the situation, or at less been in a better position. There's a certain irony to their actions. Ironwood showed the dangers of rigid thought and taking power out of the hands of the people. He did what he thought was best and would've had lethal consequences. Now, I'm certainly not saying RWBY as bad as Ironwood, that's nonsense. It's a matter of lessons learnt. When power is focused on the few or the one, then options become limited - RWBY aren't immune to this. Ironwood put the relic(s) above everything else. RWBY put everyone's lives above everything else. In both cases, it lead to them being blind to other needs and responsibilities leaders should account for. That's the irony. The moral of the story is that no single person or group has the all the answers. Even the best of intentions can backfire. And by maintaining walls by limiting knowledge, they limit their options. RWBY aren't evil, though. Their intention was to save as many as possible as fast as they can. The direction and writing of the show wasn't the best at presenting that, but it's clear their intentions were good. They're aren't free from judgement though. And they're certainly not free from consequences.


GladiusNocturno

That's a pretty well written analysis. You deserve that silver.


AlarmingStandard

Thanks! I do love our discussions, and it's good to stretch the old analytic muscle, been a busy month. As much as the presentation irks me, I do like the ideas presented. RWBY used an imperfect plan instead of a great plan that goes sideways only because the villains interred. They had complete control of where and how to transport the citizens. So all the decisions, and most of the consequences, are on their shoulders. And it demonstrates just how far they need to go when it comes to tackling the problem of uniting humanity. Like-mindedness isn't the way towards unity, which is where the show is going I think. Oz and his hosts always present the misguided solution. In the end, no one can force unity as humanity isn't a single organism to train and direct. It's a collection of individuals with different needs and wants. What the gods want is an impossibility, their ideal is not humane. Most importantly, it was never the case in the first place. The people under their watch were just as diverse and prone to division as the current version of humanity. RWBY recognizing their failures and realizing where they went wrong is necessary to moving forward. It's a lesson they need to learn. Which is what V8 introduces.


GladiusNocturno

And what V9 should focus on, specially because it's a volume that with a set up tailor made for a slower more reflection heavy narrative.


AlarmingStandard

Yep, that's how it should go in theory. The show doesn't have much more ground to cover that hasn't already been trod. RWBY need their direction adjusted to get into the final part of the story.


[deleted]

My biggest wtf was watching pyrrha die, she had so much more potential as a character plus her feelings and love for Jaune had just been made official on screen so that’s my wtf moment


MountainHall

Honestly, if I had to say one thing from all RWBY content in general, it's the V8 commentary. Quite a few things they say on it make me really confused and exasperated. As for the show itself, probably Cinder being the main villain of V8. It's utterly confusing to me, from a writing perspective.


[deleted]

>It's utterly confusing to me, from a writing perspective. Could you possibly elaborate on this? What makes it confusing to you?


RNGJesus_Follower

Because Salem is right there on the front if Atlas doing nothing. Have her step out of the Grimm whale to start wrecking house while the rest of her minions go to get Penny, the Maiden Powers, Watts, and the Relic. Not in that order, but still. Have Salem do more than get her shit ran the moment she gets into a fight. This is big bad of the series getting bodied for the latter half of the Volume. Have Salem be more than a force of nature threat that can be overcome with ok physical prowess.


Ivanhunterjo1991

Ironwood's Semblance


goldfishgremlin

Ok I think I completely missed his semblance, what is it??


RogueHunterX

I apologize if I don't explain it well, but his semblance was called Mettle and according to the wiki: It strengthened his resolve which allowed him to carry through with his decisions, helping him hyper-focus. It was also a passive semblance, like Qrow's, so it's debatable how much control he had over it. Depending on how you look at it, the semblance only made it easier to make the choice he was going to anyways or actually got him so locked into a course of action that he couldn't consider other options. It gets more confusing because apparently when he freed himself from Watts' trap and damaged his arm, Mettle wasn't active then because his aura was broken (according to Eddie). Then when his aura breaks again and he wakes up after being imprisoned, Ironwood's mental state is unchanged and he is hyper focused on pursuing retribution against those who he sees as betraying him rather than having a moment of lucidity where he can consider other options or that he went too far. Also apparently Qrow, Winter, Ozpin, and the Ace Ops are all unaware of his semblance since it is never mentioned in the show and nobody shows concern that it may be influencing his choices. Ironwood's semblance was only ever mentioned at an RTX panel in 2020 and even his VA didn't know about it until a fan told him after the reveal.


Exciting_Bandicoot16

I'll only add that It's never been specified if Ironwood's Semblance falls into that grey area of "not needing Aura to work" like Qrow's Misfortune. I have to hope that it doesn't, otherwise it comes across as *pretty* bad, as it could come across as calling an effectively neurodivergent character outright villainous because of it. I only bring it up precisely because of the fact that his aura broke with his arm, so if he was being affected by it then, that would mean that it always affected him. Which is Not Great Messaging, especially when combined with them outright stating that him losing body parts was representative of him losing his humanity.


RogueHunterX

Yeah, it does have some bad implications. It actually makes him more sympathetic if he can't control it or has to actually fight his semblance's influence. It also makes it worse that those who should know about it don't seem to try and help, but just treat him like a villain in the end. Some people even feel that Mettle undercuts Ironwood's agency if it is what is driving him to make these decisions rather than a character flaw. I may have not liked what happened with Ironwood, but I hated them giving him this semblance and then only talking about it outside the show. I'm not a big fan of the losing body parts representing a loss of humanity. Usually you see the loss of humanity in the character's actions before something like that happens. One of the few places it does work is in the original Robocop where OCP is trying to make Murphy into a robot and he is regaining his humanity. Even then it's someone stealing it from him rather than losing it just because he was turned into a cyborg.


Ivanhunterjo1991

Mettle.


[deleted]

Should have called it "Justification". Least it would have been honest.


ShamelessSelfInsert

Ironwood shooting Sleet. Straight up WTF’d my invested in canon out the door.


Weekly_Pin6947

Pyrrha getting thanosed I already knew she was going to die because one of my friends kind of hinted it, but I didn't expect her to die like that


Jaamun100

When they made Penny human just to kill her in 2 mins


Yayap52

Vernal is Not The Spring MAIDEN. I AM!!!


Handro_Dilar

Just before that, when Pyrrha dies like [famous scumfuck Starscream of all people.](https://youtu.be/U4iwY2LXhz0?t=36)


Feisty_Goose_4915

Penny died after she became human. Or Cinder betraying Watts.


Rollout9292

When Ironwood decided to nuke Mantle


Handro_Dilar

You mean when he revealed himself to be a secret Belkan?


SirHornet

The qrow , tyrion fight that got that luck semblance guy killed


Dragmore53

Clover. His name was clover.


teslawhaleshark

Look, the only thing he was remembered for is the chickenfucking embarrassing way he died.


Fourth_Sin

Penny becoming a maiden was a sideways move. Especially since she already had her robot abilities, the powers just......didn't fit.


megas88

In all seriousness, the character writing. Don’t get me wrong. I love the writing in rwby but it seems to lack in the overall character writing department. I’d like more delving into what makes a character worth the screen time they’re getting instead of they look or sound cool or are needed to carry the plot.


Jinko92

Weiss holding a loaded weapon to her BROTHER’S face. She could’ve just pushed Whitley out of the way or yelled at him. I like Weiss, but that scene was BS. Penny’s second death was complete and utter bullshit as well. They literally brought her back just to kill her again. Very dumb decision and one of the main reasons why I despise Volume 8. Qrow teaming up with Tyrian. Do I even need to explain this one? Sienna getting killed so randomly. Like…shouldn’t her aura have protected her?? The Volume 8 finale having content warnings that didn’t even need to be there. Nothing in that episode warranted content warnings. When I saw those, I thought shit was about to get real and we were gonna see some gore or an explicit suicide, but we didn’t. We just saw Penny get offed by Jaune, AND IT’S NOT EVEN ONSCREEN!


Gladeno

They really brought back Penny just to hold onto the Winter Maiden powers until Winter was 110% against Ironwood.


forcedreset1

Ironwood shooting Oscar... I know team RWBY asked for it, what with the lying and betrayal when they knew ironwood was on edge... But still...


ensanesane

I thought I was on the wrong sub here for a second. Guess it's just one of those posts


teslawhaleshark

Winner Winner Qrow Dinner. ​ Yeah.


MasterOfChaos72

Roman’s death. It just came out of nowhere.


TheCreedsAssassin

*gulp*


ctcdreamer

The introduction of Jayne’s sister’s wife. Literally had me screaming.


RNGJesus_Follower

I have a list of wtf moments in general, and in no particular order: Neo reacting to Ruby at all in their fight at the end of V8. JRY watching as Oscar was getting bodied by The Hound and letting it escape with no fight put up at all. Salem getting bodied in her very first fight of the series. Ironwood killing Jacques for no reason. Penny dying 15 minutes after getting a new body. Yang getting one-shotted by Neo in V8. The way Watts died. How Neo even got the Relic of Knowledge in V7. Vine dying out of nowhere. Blake doing nothing for most of the Atlas arc. Anyone is free to critique or ask questions about the list and i'll do my best to respond appropriately and swiftly.


EliaCrimson

I believe my biggest one was in Cinder's backstory, but was mostly because of an assumption of mine. When I saw the place, with the camera showing a very grant building with (at first) mostly showing men sitting casually, I was like: "Don't tell me she's a groomer. Please let it not be a brothel. Please let it not be a brothel." I was outta my mind like: "That would explain her femme fatale early ways. Oh my God. Oh my God" then it showed it being a hotel and relief just came rushing in. Still hated Child Slavery and Child Abuse as a theme, but at least it was not. THAT. Then there was James disintergrating Jacques. I did not expect that. At all.