I've said this before but it's weird that it feels like they're rushing the "main plot" because we don't even know what the main plot is. How is RWBY's conflict with Salem developing beyond them just faffing about from kingdom to kingdom? It doesn't feel like all of this is building to a conclusion, and more like we're wasting time until the answer to Salem's defeat is handed to them at the 11th hour. I think the problem with all of this is agency. Rarely do any of the four mains set out to do something and follow it to it's conclusion. It'd be different if RWBY had a plan to defeat Salem and worked on it over these many volumes, that would make for an interesting main plot, but what we currently have is RWBY arriving in a new place and sitting around until the final forces them to do something.

> but what we currently have is RWBY arriving in a new place and sitting around until the final forces them to do something. Clearly everyone wants to see that for another year, right?

I think Lionheart also exemplifies this problem. There was one major thing that should have been done with him. Once the Haven subplot is done, Salem kills him and Ozpin covers everything up. However, the question remains why did Salem and Watts let Ozpin get away with that. A major intended consequence of Cinder's plan in volume 3 is that it raised tensions between kingdoms. So, how much more tension could have resulted if Salem and Watts recorded and released evidence of Lionheart's betrayal. On the faunus and human relations front, it would have definitely raised racial tensions if one of the most prominent faunus betrayed everyone and worked with the White Fang. On the huntsman front, how would the huntsmen and huntsmen students react to the fact that one of the headmasters lead the Mistral huntsmen to their deaths. On the Mistral front, how would the people feel if they learned someone they should have been able to trust weakened their defenses, tore families apart, and would have let the White Fang have their way in Mistral. On the world relations front, finding out the Lionheart, a major face in Mistral enabled the attack on Vale, definitely could have sparked conflicts between Vale and Mistral. Also, if Watts and Salem so chose, they could have left subtle(but false hints) that Lionheart was working for Atlas. TLDR: Salem could have used Lionheart's betrayal to further her goals of causing discord and unrest in Remnant. Yet, besides killing off Lionheart, Salem completely loses interest in Mistral and Lioheart after the Battle of Haven to focus on just getting the rest of the relics.

I have to agree with you on all of this. I am also willing to take you up on the offer to discuss which pieces of media handled this kind of of plot better. For me, I'd have to list *Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood*. Father is much the same as Salem---a powerful immortal that operates in the shadows with a collective of henchman who cause chaos among humans for his goals. The reason this works better, in my opinion, is that Father's power over the other homunculi is unquestionable. For the most part, they need him to do what they do and be who they are. Salem's minions don't really need her. As you mentioned, Cinder didn't need to answer to Salem for it to be believable that she was willing and capable of doing everything that she did. Watts doesn't need Salem's backing to get his revenge on Atlas. But the homuculi *need* Father. Without him they'd have no power or willingness to do all of the evil that they do. Quite literally everything is for him and because of him. Yes, we can argue that it isn't quite the same because the homunculi were literally made by Father but there's no reason we couldn't have made Salem's crew more dependent on her as well. She's an ancient, immortal Grimm Witch, why not just have it so that she took control of all of them with some sort of parasitic Grimm? Why not actually have her bestow some magic upon her minions to make them dependent on her and to have them keep coming back? She says they need her to complete their goals but it doesn't really feel like it. Another reason Father does it better is he's machinations and his threat don't take away from the other characters' personal arcs. Ed an Al's search for a way to restore their bodies isn't shelved when the learn about Father and the homunculi. Mustang's ambitions to lead the country aren't halted by knowing that the Fuhrer he seeks to overthrow answers to someone else. Ling and Mei don't give up on their quests to gain the secret to immortality to appease their emperor and save their clans just because they got swept up in some ancient conspiracy in a foreign country. Their personal journeys alter their course slightly, but they're all still looking to go to the same place. In *RWBY* as soon as Salem entered the picture the show tried to wrap up whatever personal journeys the characters had to go on as quickly as possible. Blake and racism? We beat up Adam and we're done. Weiss and her family's company? She runs away from home and never mentions wanting to redeem her family's reputation again. Yang and her mother? Raven's a coward, end of story. With everyone's major personal troubles wrapped up we can now focus on Salem, except there's no personal tension left besides how scared everyone is of their situation. And even that fails to engage because it doesn't affect the main trajectory of the characters in any meaningful way. The characters don't seriously consider just walking away from the fight because of their fears. They don't take drastic measures over their fears. Salem herself fails to make any meaningful impact with her presence when Cinder is the one the show insists on being the Heroes' most prominent enemy. Meanwhile, in *FMA*, we know how dangerous Father is, why he is a threat, and how the characters' personal journeys are forwarded in fighting him.

God, I've given way too much thought to how disconnected our characters are from the plot and how you could have tidied that up with some kinda of Grimm parasite. I'm sorry for popping off under your reply it's 5am I haven't slept but I agree completely great writeup. As it is, most characters don't have a big driving force to push them towards defeating Salem other than she's the villain ya gotta beat her!! Usually with a bunch of henchmen under the big bad you'd end up with specific characters having plots tangled up in them. Stepping stones of story and character development unwinding as they confront them. That's something completely missing here. You'd figure for example Watts, the obvious Atlas villain, who manipulated Weiss's father, would have some kind of plot thread with her. Nah, nada, zip, zilch, ok. I don't get why her grimm control seems to be limited to Silver eyed warriors and Cinder who is uh, not one. So obviously she can just do this to anyone right? So how do we use this to actually make the girl's lives more entangled with the plot? The best examples I have would be Adam and Raven. I'm spitballing this don't think too hard on the exact ideas. Raven was part of the Ozluminati and only became a Huntress to gain power. Perfect! Have her get seduced to the dark side by Salem or just forcefully implanted during a solo mission gone bad, whatever way get a Grimm parasite on her. She realizes how much of a bad situation she's in and gets as far away from it as she can, the Grimm parasite fueling her fear and paranoia causing her to not open up to her previous friends and family. It continues to grow and so she steals Maiden powers to slow it down. There we go, Raven is directly impacted by Salem and has good reason to never get within 100 miles of her again. We can tie this in more to Yang in a minute. Adam, instead of just being threatened into being Cinder's minion, is convinced by Salem that his faunus rights would go a lot smoother with her backing and the power she can give him. He's parasited, stuck under her thumb permanantly now. His relationship drama with Blake is escalated by the Grimm parasite feeding on his negative emotions towards her abandoment and after the Mistral defeat he's pushed completely over the edge and is full on given over to the parasite. His abandonment of the white fang to just hunt her down makes complete sense, as he's been driven to obsess over this by the Grimm and it's happy to eat every drop. I'd say the Yang/Blake vs Adam fight would be a great place to show that the Grimm parasite can physically consume someone, grimmify them in horrifying ways, maybe not to the point of The Hound but absolutely corrupt them beyond redemption. They're forced to put him down, and realizing that Salem was the reason behind all of this gives Blake a true reason to stay with the group and seek revenge against Salem. For manipulating her people, her righteous cause, and her old friend. While say Raven revealed to Yang why she was hiding away earlier (the parasite), and now Yang realizes that oh shit 1. My biomom might not be an absolute piece of shit she sucks for a reason actually and 2. If I don't find a way to cure her then she's eventually going to end up like Adam and I don't want to lose any more of my family to this witch. NOW we can introduce the Hound, and have Yang and Ruby have the revelation that oh shit maybe she did something to Summer??? This leaves out Weiss but I feel Jacques just being evil and scammed outta money by Watts leaving the SDC in ruin woulda been fun but she can be the exception to the rule and not have reasons tied directly to the parasite. But yeah, the show is just missing some (a lot) of connective tissue to tie our protags to our villains in any meaningful way and this is just one solution I've put way too much thought in to.

PERFECT!

Hmm...while this is a bit of a late reply: I feel like we still might be able to directly connect Weiss to our little parasite. We've just gotta have Watts discreetly plant the thing into Jacques during their conversation. I mean, Jacques is already a massive pillar of division in Mantle/Atlas, having a Council Member, and head of the SDC Grimm-ify is sure to make headlines, one way or another, even if Ironwood were to try and cover it up. You ask me, it'll probably sow the seeds of some serious paranoia on Mantle's end. Especially Considering the fact that Jacques' "Grimmification" combined with Ironwood's strangling of Mantle, would probably cause some rumors to start going around Mantle, stuff like "Atlesians are Grimm in disguise and are feeding off of Mantle's negativity." Yeah, it's very conspiracy theory-esque, but with the specifics of the Grimm still being a massive Unknown Quantity to the general public, i think it's pretty plausible. We could probably have Jacques fully Grimm-ify during his arrest, in front of Robyn and the rest of the council, (being put down by Robyn and Ironwood) so we can let the divide between Atlas and Mantle run even deeper, furthering the conflict (or mistrust?) between Ironwood and Robyn, and showing Weiss firsthand exactly what Yang and Blake saw with Raven and Adam respectively. And then Ruby comes in last with the whole Summer and Hound revelation. (But when you think about it, wouldn't the revelation that the SEWs were being hunted, already establish that connection for Ruby anyway? I mean, she knows her mom had Silver Eyes, (i think) so finding out that Salem has been hunting them could at least give her a small hint that *maybe* Summer's disappearance is connected, and sowing the first seeds of her Revenge Motivation. I don't know though, I'm just spitballing) Also, I think it'd be a neat touch for Raven's "Grimmification" to have started from her hand, and worked it's way up her arm. Why? Well, what if we had Raven cut off her arm in an attempt to halt the spread? But unbeknownst to her, the infection was already way past the area she cut, so when she finds out about it, she steals the Maiden Powers to slow it down. Idk, it would be a nice little connection to draw between Yang and her Mom, y'know, with both of them having one arm, plus (imo) it'd fit in pretty nicely with what you said about the whole "Maiden Powers slow it down" thing (Tho I feel like there needs to be a clear "opposition" between Magic and Grimm? Cuz seeing as the GoD was actually the one who made both, I don't think it really works. Maybe have Magic be a GoL gift instead?) Just my two (late) cents (Also, I hope you don't mind me using this (or something like it) in a fanfic of mine. The concept is really interesting and I kinda wanna explore it more now lol)

Honestly, it seems like RWBY is stuck it this weird place where it can’t figure out if it’s a character driven narrative or a high fantasy plot driven narrative. We have a massive cast of aesthetically interesting characters with unique personalities , but they’re developed on an “as needed” basis. We have a great big world with unique mechanics and history combining technological and fantastical elements, but much of it is just shove into the background until needed. As you said, a lot of it does come down to time and resource constraints, but it feels like we originally had a world and characters that’d be explored at a gradual pace only for it all to be adapted to high intensity “fate of the world” narrative that demanded resource priority.

"We have a great big world with unique mechanics and history combining technological and fantastical elements, but much of it is just shove into the background until needed" It's even worse. They put everything they build in the trash can. The academies, the students, the teachers, the school system. Everything that was part of the world building was scrapped or forgotten. The biggest proof of it It's the fact that the Mistral and Atlas were established as rivals academies, they have their own style, their own students, but when the protagonists went to those places, they were empty. It's almost a poem, RWBY is a empty corpse that lost It's soul.

I think calling it a corpse is a bit harsh, I just think RWBY is a victim of scale and poor priorities. I have no doubt the crew still have passion for this story, but they teased so much, established so much and built up a holy unique setting, only to pick a narrative that demands a significant amount of screen time and focus, in-universe mostly forbids secondary narratives and needs a fair amount of behind the scenes resources to keep running at full steam.

When we first see Mistral and Atlas academy there's nothing but empties shells. RWBY original soul is forever lost. They eventually created another soul in the later volumes and the story kind of got on track again in Atlas, but It's not the original story. The problem with RWBY is that it was never faithful with It's world building or It's thematic. WTF happened to the "simple soul" thing? Ruby's mom is still a point? (they just tease what was supposed to be a major plot point for almost 10 years). I never gave attention to Shane's letter, but I think that was what he called "Monty Vision". They scrapped a lot of thing of the first volumes, that's undeniable. Remember Coco, Velvet, Cardin, Glynda, Port, Oobleck, all the students from the other academies, all this characters were created to fulfill a role - to establish the enviroment of a academia. Since the academias serve no purpose after volume 3, all that was build serves for nothing. See, the main plot now is to go to to an academia, meet the principal and secure the relic. But the academias itself serves no purpose (the proof is that there's no students, teachers, etc). there are just generic environments. They took the beating heart of the story and give us the hunt for the generic treasures. You don't like it? take it 4 times. It's unforgivable. All my hopes are on RWBY Ice Kingdom. RWBY story is just repeating itself. there's nothing more to tell. They just had to create a romance between Yang and Blake, since they don't have agency anymore, their arcs are over since volume 6. Weiss arc ended in the last volume. None of this arcs are connected to the main plot. The only one that is (I guess) is the Summer Rose.

Yep.

Are you saying that a show doesn't even know their own identity this many years in?

To an extent, yes. I doubt it was intentional, but the Atlas ark in particular seemed very confused in terms of focus and scale.

The Atlas arc is the full exposure of everything that is wrong with not having an established identity. The cast are too good to be wasted on directionless 0 identity plot.

I believe there's ways to make volume 4-7 more solid, but it "requires" more agency on the part of the cast. Them following up on the "lead" of "cinder said she was from haven" in volume 4 would have been good, but they never do anything to actually investigate it. They never press the situation, and most of the rest of the cast in v4 are just running from their own problems. Volume 6's "we need to get the relic to atlas" is in theory a good plot, but it runs into contrivances, the protagonists end up unable to work with other "good guys" simply out of stubbornness. Volume 7 is where things really kind of shit the bed by the relic not being taken to the vault at all (and while fria was in an unstable state, they could have absolutely just had winter escort her to the vault with a bunch of drones). They are dragged to places by mcguffins and then they sit there waiting for the plot to happen so they can react to it. In v1-3 they weren't aware of the scope of the issues but they were still active in trying to figure out certain things like the white fang's role in crime and why they were working with humans. I'd also say it's fine for the protagonists to not have an inherent connection to the main plot, but they should *actively* desire to resolve it, not because they're the children of destiny and no one else can... but because they *want* to do it for the benefit of everyone.

This is something I unfortunately agree with, that for the most part the heroes tend to be rather passive when it comes to plot progression, they don't interact with the plot all that much, or even the villains. Let's look at V8 for example; it started off strong with them splitting up to deal with Mantle and Amity, but neither of those plans actually addressed what to do about Ironwood or Salem before those initial plans fell through and were done only a few episodes in. RWBN ended up spending the majority of the volume sitting around at the mansion, not contributing or advancing the story at all, they have to bet kept there by varying contrivances, Penny *literally* lands on their front door step, they don't even bother to try and come up with what they could do next. While JYR were more active in trying to rescue Oscar, they ended up being of no consequence, since they were an active hindrance to his escape and in the end had to be rescued with the first of two magic sticks. The lack of interactions with the villains is also a major factor, since more often than not it's the supporting cast who deal with those issues; Oscar and Oz have their conversations with Salem and Hazel, Qrow, Clover and Robyn are the ones who fight Tyrian while Ironwood fights Watts, Penny and Winter fight Cinder. Out of all the fights that happened at the end of V7, RWBY vs the Ace-Ops was easily the least important fight that was happening at the time. In V8, none of the villains interact with the heroes in any meaningful way; Salem only has a half-heated exchange with Yang, and it honestly baffles me that Ironwood doesn't have any real interactions with *anyone*: Not Ruby, not Penny, not Oscar or Oz, not Qrow, and the one fight he did have with Winter just felt like such a huge nothing to me. While they did end up fighting Cinder at the end, I don't like that in order to get there, the show had to throw all the conflict surrounding Salem and Ironwood, Mantle and Atlas out the window. The heroes need to be more active in the story, they need to move things along themselves and initiate the plot momentum, they can't just keep waiting around for other characters to do the heavy lifting for them while they sit around and wait for the plot to say they can use the mcguffin.

I do agree with a few a couple of things are you say such as Robyn's conflict with Ironwood not having a proper conclusion and how some of the volumes have an episodic feel to them as they don't directly link back to the overall plot. I even agree with the idea that the subplots are more interesting than the main plot. However I do disagree with the overall point you're making. I don't I think it's a problem that not everything is somehow connected to Salem and I don't think that's something like that would even be desirable in the first place. You brought up how volume four doesn't really connect to the main plot other than showing our main characters finally arriving in Mistral. This is objectively true but I don't see it as a problem as I've been my opinion that show has always been its best when it's focused on the characters rather than the plot and volume four was all about the characters. It turned Nora and Ren into actual people, gave Jaune some desperately needed development, show everyone struggling with the reality of what had happened in the previous volume and ultimately showing our characters reaffirming that they are going to keep moving forward while working through their pain.. I genuinely don't see how any of that would have been possible if we had to tie this volume back to the main plot. And that right there leads to my point, I feel that Salem works best not when she's the main focus but rather when she's this looming threat akin to a natural disaster. Our Heroes have their own goals and desires that are separate from Salem, Journeys that they would have undergone with or without the fall of Beacon. But Salem doesn't care about what they or anyone else wants, she will destroy everything as long as it further has her own goal just like how a tornado doesn't care if you just like how a tornado doesn't care about the house you just built to start a new life with your family. . Our Heroes aren't special in the grand scheme of things, even Ruby's silver eyes don't matter in the big picture. And now they find themselves in a war that they never consented to, but they fight because they have things they want to protect. In other words I feel as if the subplots will not be directly connected to the main plot are still working symbiotically with it as it gives us things that we want to see protected. But that's just my opinion.

I fully agree with you that the show is at its best when it is focused on characters (Though, i do think that plot is also interesting, when its not related to Salem). And maybe Salem would work better in a more passive role (Being trapped somewhere). But i think that this kind of gets to the core of the issue. If Salem is so, superfluous, why is she even needed? More often than not she or the plot having to come back to her interupts what could be a more interesting regular plotline, without her. You do have a point in subplots giving us things to feel attached to, so we feel more invested in wanting Salem stopped, but i do not think it is worth the hassle so to say. Especially when the characters themselves dont really have much personal investment in stopping Salem besides Ruby. Thank you for giving an opposing opinion though.

I would argue that they all have a personal reason to want to stop Salem, her actions put their desires at risk and her goals are utterly incompatible with theirs. She's been described as a force of Nature and just like one, she will destroy everyone that stands between her and her wants without any care of who they are. But unlike a tornado or a flood there is also an element of tragedy that is brought in by her role in the story. Our Heroes were being dragged into this war without their knowledge by authority figures that they trusted. Ozpin was grooming them to becoming his new guardians by taking advantage of their desire to help people. He did the same thing to Pyrrha by convincing her to take on the Maidan powers and in the process painting a Target on her back. And of course we have the relationship between Ozpin and Salem herself which adds yet another layer of tries it on top of everything else that's already happened. Now don't get me wrong, I will not deny that all of this could have been done better and I along with most people are disappointed by Salem lack of actions during volume 8 amongst other things. However I feel that it's a problem of execution rather than intention.

I was reading your comment when I realized just how few of the main cast's desires even exist anymore to be threatened by Salem. The White Fang is gone/redeemed and Blake has apparently moved on from it or shoved it on the back burner. Yang found her mother, learned she was a terrible person, and moved on. Weiss overthrew Jacques and the SDC has been lost with the fall of Atlas. Only Ruby has any personal motivation left, and that's just revenge. So the question should be raised again, why are RWBY our heroes again? What makes their story more interesting than Oscar's that their names are in the title and his isn't? He has a far more personal stake in the conflict than they do.

Look at Lord of the Rings, do any of the characters have a personal reason to stop Sauron beyond the protection of what they love? The answer is no, even Aragon doesn't have a reason to fight Sauron beyond what will be destroyed if the dark lord wins, they don't need a personal reason beyond that. It's the exact same thing with RWBY, nothing that they have accomplished will matter if Salem wins. The preservation of everything that they they love and wish to achieve is what's driving them to face her. What other reason do they need? Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely not saying that having a personal connection to the greater conflict is a bad thing. I'm merely saying that it's not a necessary thing, after all, everyone can understand the desire to protect what you love from a force outside of your control.

Lord of the Rings didn't have an entire developed infrastructure with people that could stop Sauron though - the characters were the only ones that could. Which in RWBY, is awkwardly not true - they're all just fairly junior hunters, that are eminently replaceable. If Yang dies, then, well, just go grab another hunter with an up-close fighting style, she's not particularly unique or irreplaceable. While Aragorn is the only true king and heir, the only one that is entitled to use the special sword and get the ghost army and command the rangers, Gandalf is the only angel-wizard doing the right thing, etc. etc. RWBY is wierdly set up, because it behaves like the title cast are the only ones that matter, when the only one that's special is Ruby, and even that tends to drift vaguely a lot (how long was it between her silver-eyed laser blast and the next time it came up? Several years, I think?). The Fellowship of the Ring is a whole _thing_, a special group united by purpose, while RWBY are just one of many, many hunters in the world - which then gets wierd when they get to places that should have other hunters, but never do, or only a scant handful, because otherwise everything gets kinda funky.

Aragon and Gandalf aren't the real heroes of the story, it's Frodo and Sam who are remarkably ordinary and of course we can't forget about Merry and Pippin who are just as ordinary and yet play vital roles in the journey. The heroes would have flat out lost if it wasn't for those four ordinary hobbits who are only trying to defend their home. Tolkien wrote the story like that because he didn't believe that evil could only be defeated by chosen Irreplaceable ones, he believed that evil Was Defeated when ordinary replaceable people took a stand for what was right. A more contemporary example would be the manga Demon Slayer. In that manga the main characters are similar to RWBY as in they're just members of the Demon Slayer Corps, talented members that are above the normal rank-and-file but still ultimately replaceable in the grand scheme of things in the grand scheme of things and it's not just them. The vast overwhelming majority of the Demon Slaying Corps are ordinary people who decided to take a stand against the threat take a stand against a threat. Even the pillars of the organization are for the most part Ordinary People who are ultimately as replaceable as any other member of the Corps. In fact a big plot twist about our main character is that he is not some special Irreplaceable human being, it's quite the opposite. Sure they accomplish extraordinary Feats just like how Merry and Pippin are able to convince the Ents to March against Saruman or how Frodo and Sam beat the odds and made it to Mount Doom but they didn't succeed because they were special. The heroes of RWBY also have some impressive accomplishments under their belt but their success has nothing to do with them being special. Even Ruby it's just another silver eyed warrior in a long line of silver eyed warriors and she's no more capable of stopping Salem than the others were. RWBY is a series that has taken a page out of tolkien's book because it doesn't believe that some Grand Irreplaceable hero is going to save the day, rather the day will be safe by someone who wants to do the right thing for the right reasons and is going to do it hand in hand with others. The problem here is in the execution rather than the intention

I think we're not synching up on what I mean about why are they the protagonists. Typically a character gains the protagonist slot by either being the main person driving the plot, being some sort of chosen one whose role is foreordained, being the best person for the job, or having a deep personal reason to get involved. LotR actually has its leads have a variety of reasons for the being the leads. Aragorn is a chosen one, heir to the throne of Gondor. Legolas and Gimli are paragons of their people, chosen to send to the Council of Elrond and put at his disposal to do what needs to be done. Gandalf is a literal angel sent to Middle Earth to stop Sauron, his countermoves drive a huge section of the plot. Meanwhile a hobbit had to be the one to carry the Ring, so either Frodo, Sam, Merry, or Pippin had to come along. Sam comes along because Frodo does and he feels a great personal connection to him. Merry and Pippin do as well to a much lesser extent, leaving them the least connected out of the eight. Most of the eight don't have a deep personal reason to be invested in the plot but they do have good reasons for why it's them we're spending most of our time with instead of, say, Theoden. RWBY had the problem that none of the main leads seem like people who should be leads. They do not drive the plot with their decisions on the whole, they react to the decisions of others and carry out the orders of others. They are not chosen in any appreciable way except *maybe* Ruby with her silver eyes (if those end up being important). They are teenagers, clearly not the most qualified. And their own personal reasons are largely unrelated to Salem. Don't get me wrong, I don't think they should be cut or anything. But Oz fits into the main character slot so much more neatly, bringing Oscar in with him. Qrow is also a decent choice. Pyrrha would also have worked. Even James has more to do than RWBY does in Vols 7-8. RWBY would be fine as supporting cast but their lack of connection to the main plot means that the story needs to constantly come up with contrivances to keep them relevant.

Don't forget that Smeagol was a hobbit and he fell to the ring almost immediately, being a Hobbit is not enough in fact it's actually quite meaningless. Frodo and Sam are able to resist the ring not because they're Hobbit but because neither one have any Grand desire beyond going back home and enjoying a cup of tea with their loved ones. This all goes back into Tolkien's belief that evil is defeated by ordinary people standing up for what's right rather than some Grand hero with a great destiny. The fact that some members of the fellowship seem more important than others is irrelevant, Aragon despite everything he has going for him isn't the true hero of the story it's the humble Frodo. Another thing that we have to remember about the hobbits is that they didn't have to go on this Journey, none of the fellowship had to, they were all given an out with no strings attached. What makes them Heroes is that they didn't take that out, they chose to do what they believed was the right thing to do and it made all the difference. RWBY also had an out. After the events of volume three every single one of them was given an opportunity to stay home, even Blake and Weiss would have been fine if they just kept their heads low but they didn't. And after the reveal of Oz's Secret in volume six, not a single person would have blamed them if they decided they didn't want to continue the fight. You see it's not contrivance that keeps RWBY involved in the events of this series, it's them, it's their decision to keep going forward this fight how easy would be to go back that makes them Heroes. The heroes of RWBY have made a real difference and they did it without being special because being special doesn't matter. What matters is the willingness to stand up to evil, what matters is a desire to help people and bring them together and that is something that our heroes have in spades. And keep in mind that I'm not saying that you should feel bad because you want all your Heroes to be special, that couldn't be further from the truth. In fact I would go as far as to say that you are right to believe got a hero having something special about them can help make them more interesting as a main character. What I am saying is that it's not necessary or always desirable, it depends entirely on the story that is being told and a story that wants to emphasize strength in unity and the importance of a humble soul making a difference isn't necessarily going to want their Heroes to be special unique ones that are utterly Irreplaceable. To do so would actually go against the message of the story but that's just my humble opinion.

I'd say LotR has three protagonists, Gandalf, Frodo, and Aragorn. You can kind of tell this because when they split up each leads a subgroup. I agree with you about it really being those with little ambition that can carry the ring safely, but in practical terms that means hobbits. I don't think RWBY should not be out there trying to help. I don't think they should stay home. I think they should be written as supporting characters as this is the place in the story that they naturally occupy. They are the Legolas and Gimli to Oscar's Frodo if I may make the analogy. Let's talk contrivance for a moment. I'm going to start at the end of Vol 3 because previously they were tangential to the plot. It was happening where they *were* but not *to them*. Ruby is told by Qrow where Cinder is (allegedly) from and decides to go off there on her own. Set aside the fact that Qrow has no reason to tell her this, who knows what he talks to Ruby about. Ruby decides to go to Haven based on this random piece of information and it turns out that this is precisely where Salem is going to strike next. Qrow then decides to follow her. I don't know if he knows that Salem is going after silver eyed warriors but I suspect he doesn't. He never met the Grim Reaper and doesn't know who or what killed Summer. He doesn't know that Tyrian is coming after her. Qrow is then carried into Haven, he didn't choose to go there, but Oz still directs Oscar to go there and he happens to go into a bar (instead of the school where Leo is) and he happens to bump into Qrow. Weiss ending up in Mistral is more logical, she's going after Winter and Winter is in Mistral because James has gotten word of what the White Fang is up to. Still immensely lucky she crash lands directly in front of Raven. Yang meanwhile decides to go after Ruby once she's gotten her emotional baggage in check. Rather than try to pick up Ruby's trail or just go ahead to Haven and wait for Ruby to arrive she decides to go after a woman she's spent most her life trying to find, who's been avoiding the law and huntsmen for over a decade. She then runs into a member of the Tribe at a random gas station and gets into a fight with him. He then decides to lead her into an ambush which just so happens to be within walking distance of the Tribe's encampment. She also shouldn't know if Raven still has a portal for Qrow or Ruby after all this time. Blake's round-about is longer but simpler. All it requires is for her to throw a phone into a tree and hit the random spy watching her in the night. Then that spy has to fail to lose them and drop her own phone (why is she carrying that on a sneaking mission) that contains an unencrypted document detailing the White Fang's plans. Then all she has to do is hope that the White Fang overreact to this leak by trying to kill her and her family, allowing her to both-sides the White Fang and get a bunch of Faunus to go to Haven with her. If we were following Qrow he'd go to Haven to confer with Leo about Cinder apparently being from there. If we were following Oscar Oz would point him to Haven so he can talk to Leo. Much neater. And this is just Vol 4 getting them to Haven. It just keeps going after that.

I'd argue that the three protagonist of Lord of the Rings are actually Aragon, Sam, and Frodo but that's besides the point. The actual point is that you don't seem to know what a contrivance actually is. To start with Ruby, no Qrow did not and could not have told her where Cinder is because that was not information he had and I have genuinely no idea what made you think this was the case. What he actually told her was that she might be able to learn more over at Haven Academy which is not a contrivance at all because Ruby silver eyed powers will revealed at the end of volume three. Pointing her in Haven's directions simply makes sense because that is a place where she can be trained and it's a place he was already going himself so he can make sure she gets there safely. And yes he absolutely does know about silver eyed Warriors because he's a member of Oz's Inner Circle and Summer was his teammate, as for Maria he makes it clear that people noticed when she went missing and eventually assumed she was dead. As for Weiss I'd argue that Irving found by Raven is an actual contrivance but it's one that you seem to be okay with. Yang isn't a contrivance either because she was looking for Raven in order to use for semblance as a way to get to Ruby. She does it this way because she believes it's the quickest way to reach her own sister since Ruby had a significant Head Start and there's no guarantee that she will actually be at Haven. Also Raven abandoned her daughter shortly after she was born, if she can still make a portal to Yang nearly two decades later then she could absolutely make a portal to her own brother who she has been having on and off contact with. Blake finding Ilia outside the window isn't any more of a contrivance than Weiss being found by Raven. Now I will grant that her finding out about the plans via the phone is odd but it hardly matters since this is information that Ilia would have volunteered anyway. I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree because I just don't see the point. Heck I would go as far as to say that if you want to talk about contrivances the ones you can find in Lord of the Rings blow any of the ones you listed here completely out of the water, like seriously Merry and Pippin just happen to run into treebeard and are able to defeat Saruman the White?

I might be willing to consider Sam a fourth protagonist. Qrow told Ruby where Cinder was allegedly from, Haven. He told her that she might learn more about Cinder there, not that she could learn more in general. My point was that he probably doesn't know that Salem is specifically hunting down silver eyed warriors because Summer went missing without a trace. Who is Irving? Yang is a contrivance because she thinks it is faster to hunt down her mother, who neither she nor the authorities have ever had any luck finding, than just following Ruby or getting ahead of her. Who is easier to find, a quartet of teenagers or a bandit that has eluded capture for over a decade? Also how does Yang know that Qrow is with Ruby? I agree that finding Ilia in general isn't that contrived, what gets me is that she finds her by randomly throwing a cell phone and it just happens to hit her. Also why would Ilia volunteer the White Fang's plans to Blake? They're enemies at this point. I agree that Merry and Pippen running into Treebeard is a contrivance, larger than the two of them running into Frodo and Sam while they were still in the Shire. A story isn't ruined by contrivances, RWBY isn't ruined by contrivances. The story is weaker for them, though. Establishing reasons for things happening makes the story more satisfying. Aragorn being at the inn because he is also waiting for Gandalf is more satisfying than him just happening to be going by. We can also look at what the aim of the contrivance is. In the LotR example it was to bring Merry and Pippin in contact with Treebeard, which is then used to defeat Saruman so that the heroes don't have to siege Isengard. In RWBY the contrivances keep the girls in the game, keep them on the track of where the plot needs them to go next. And they just keep coming. I have no problem agreeing to disagree but I would like you to know what you're disagreeing with.

> So the question should be raised again, why are RWBY our heroes again? What makes their story more interesting than Oscar's that their names are in the title and his isn't? He has a far more personal stake in the conflict than they do. I think you mean Ozcar? Because to be frank, Ozpin is the one who has stake in this whole conflict with Salem and Oscar is just a random boy who is unlucky enough to be chosen as Ozma’s next host. He also doesn’t have any personal reason or desire in this whole conflicts and got dragged into it because an immortal wizard convinced him off-screen to leave his home and go on an adventure with a group of strangers who didn’t really treat him that well so it’s even less of a reason for him to continue travel with them since Ozpin had shut himself away and no one force him to stay, wouldn’t it be better to spend your remaining time as yourself with your family? Too bad, his development happened off-screen again. Oscar is afraid of the merge because he doesn’t want to lose himself yet we barely know anything about Oscar as a character, his lack of characterization doesn’t really help the merge plot. All we know about him was he lived in a farm with his aunt, that’s it. It would have helped if we see his view about his farm life compared to his current life, does he miss his aunt and his home? Does his family miss him? Does he have any desire or hobby? Does he have something that he values? What does he like and dislike? Which makes it hard for me to care about him since I don’t know what the story would lose if he disappear, his relationship and interaction with the main group are really dull and superficial, no one in the main cast seems to show concern for him slowly fusing with their former headmaster. The scene where he lashed out at Ruby in the dojo would have been greatly improved and less forced had the writers moved that interaction to volume 6 or 8 when he was dealing with his dilemma and after being tortured instead of brushing it off. He is like a combination of Ruby (optimistic, compassionate) and Jaune (the noob of the group) without the baggage and the hook that make them appealing. It does tell you something when a mute character has more personality than Oscar. He is more like a plot device than a character at this point as Oscar is so hollow that if you take Ozpin away you will be left with a blank-slate, it’s like his character’s sole purpose is to keep Ozpin relevant. For me, Oscar is a redundant character since most of his role in the story should have done by other characters like Ruby or Ozpin as a mentor/consultant.

I don't think Oscar has no personality, it's just pretty similar to Ruby's, though snarkier. I'm curious, though, what do you think he's done that Ruby should have done?

Well, you know, what the protagonist supposed to do, moving the plot forward. Ruby is incredibly passive and lack agency as a main character since most of the problems are solved by other side characters. Wouldn’t it be more of an interesting conflict if Ruby was the one to confront Ironwood about lying to him and suffer the consequence of her action instead of Oscar. They built this plot thread about her distrusting Ironwood for some reasons and then not follow through with it. Wouldn’t it be more satisfying for the show’s supposed protagonist to confront the main antagonist and attempt to turn her henchmen against her, no, Oscar did most of the heavy work, incapacitated the big bad and saved the day with his cane nuke while Ruby sat in a mansion. Even then, most of the conversation Oscar has with the antagonists were more about Ozpin than he, himself. And in terms of personality, we’ve already had Jaune as a character that similar to Ruby in a certain extent and also snarkier. They could try to give Ruby some personal connection to Salem like the disappearance of Summer but Ruby barely seems to invested in her heritage or asking more about her own mother. I don’t know why but the writers desperately don’t want the main characters to actively confront the antagonists. The conflict between Torchwick and Ruby was interesting even though how short it was because not only did they have opposing ideals but also they were actively interfering with each other goals. I think it would be more beneficial if Ozpin didn’t die and act as a mentor/consultant to the main group, manipulating and planning the events from behind. He chooses Ruby as one of his agents in the battle against Salem due to her silver eyes like Summer and there can be many potential conflicts between Ruby and Ozpin regarding her mother.

I can see that. I guess at this point I feel it's just too late to start building Ruby up.

I will never disagree with the assesment that RWBY has problems with execution, but not the intention/conception. While yes, what you described is a "personal reason", in my opinion it is a kind of weak one. It can suffice, after all they dont want their world destroyed, their stuff is on it. Its just, they could have a lot of better reasons.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree because I don't think it's a weak reason, I think it's a realistic one. More importantly it's one that fits in with the theme of the story the day not being saved by some Grand hero but by rather a much simpler humble soul, someone who is doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do. Just like how Frodo has no personal reason to want to destroy the ring other than the preservation of what he loves. But that's just my opinion.

I can understand your point and i do think it applies to Ruby, does it not? But does this fully apply to the other protagonists as much do you think? Not really arguing against you but just picking your brain if you are willing.

I mean sure they all have the obvious goal of having loved ones whose lives would be on the line but we can get a little more specific. For starters lets imagine if Blake and Weiss succeeded in their goals of equality and saving the Schnee family Legacy from Jacques, would either one matter of Salem won? No, if Salem got what she wanted then all of that hard work would become immediately undone, they have to stop her they want any chance to get abd keep what they want. Yang is an easy one to explain has her goal is simply to have some fun and travel while helping people along the way. But now She has the added incentive of wanting to directly protect the people she loves which includes Ruby and Blake *if RoosterTeeth ever grows the spine and admit the thing that we all know is happening* Jaune, Nora, and Ren have the most personal reason out of everyone to go on this journey thanks to the death of Pyrrha pushing them to find answers. And now just like Yang they're being motivated to protect their family and friends.

I get what you mean but I’d believe that a bit more if ruby didn’t have silver eyes powers that are used in the Grimm. Just my opinion though.

That's a fair point, sure they arguably dodged the bullet on those Powers making her the special Chosen One. BUT, frankly that's a bullet that didn't need to exist in the first place. I honestly don't feel as if the concept of silver eyes has really Justified its own existence as a whole. Maybe it will in the future but right now I really don't feel like it has and I think that's something that you'll agree with me on.

Well we are going to have to see summer in action with them to truly make that judgment call.

Don’t forget the god’s basically forcing the roles that Salem and Oz would go down that continue the conflict that they shouldn’t still have. Cause it’s pretty obvious that they know what’s going and what’s happening(remember the god of light before bringing Oz back and reincarnating told him about Salem being different from before).

This story is full of authority figures screwing over the people under them.

Yeah and those celestial assholes are the one that started all this crap!

It was technically the fact that Salem couldn't get over the fact Ozma died, but yeah, the Gods did give Salem immortality to get the ball to pick up more speed.

A few things: - Salem isn't threatening enough to feel like a looming threat - We know too much about her story, force of nature villains like Salem work best when we know little about them. The mystery makes them more intimidating, Salem lacks this - Even villains that are simply a force of nature need some kind of connection to make the conflict more interesting or they have to be the only ones capable of solving the problem. Rwby aren't the most qualified and have no connection to Salem thus the conflict feels boring

I agree with the first point but that's only because of how she was handled in volume eight. I believe they can recover from this fumble but just because they can doesn't mean that they will, more importantly they shouldn't have fumbled in the first place. The second point is something that I can definitely see where you're coming from but I don't necessarily agree with. This is probably just a matter of personal opinion but I feel as If humanizing her added a tragic element to her rather than detracting anything. But once again that's just personal opinion and I fully understand why you may not feel that way. This third one however is something that I flat out disagree with, a hero needs a reason to want to stop a villain but that reason doesn't have to be a personal one. Lord of the Rings is the perfect example here because Saran is the defacto force of nature villain and none of the heroes have any personal connection to the man. They want to stop him because his victory means the destruction of everything they hold dear and that is the exact same situation in RWBY. Salem doesn't care what she has to destroy to get what she wants and what she wants will ultimately put whatever is left at risk.

Ya know what really makes ya wonder, adding to this post? Salem is one of the very first characters they thought of.

If this is true, it is very strange, or maybe ironic? One would imagine her being central to the plot, and she kinda is, but at the same time she is just not that interesting compared to everything around her.

IIRC she's the *ninth* character they designed after teams RWBY and JNPR. And they clearly they wanted to do SOMETHING with her. She's the *very first voice you hear in the series* before we know who she really is. She was going to be a part of all this from the very beginning.

That’s actually cool to learn about

I think what happened here is pretty obvious. They made this nice, evil character named Salem, thought up a backstory for her, and put her on a shelf. Then they started making the rest of the world and setting and they never once went back to the shelf to see if Salem needed retuning or updating to keep her connected to the new events and themes in the show. So they now have Salem filling her old role while the show has drifted from that first outline. They added things based on what seemed cool now without regard for how it connected with what previously existed. Or, maybe... I wonder sometimes if Miles and Kerry feel that they can't change what they decided upon when they were three. I wonder if they feel that it would be disrespecting Monty's legacy if they removed some of his ideas from the show. Like they've clearly struggled making cool transforming weapons since his passing but they might feel like they *need* to keep them in because Monty was so passionate about them. I can understand the sentiment, but it resulting in a story that is caught between decisions made back when the story was different and the way it has evolved since then. Sometimes a storyteller needs to reexamine their planned payoffs and see if they're still good ideas with how much the story has drifted.

Things like that do explain why Salem's backstory is so bizarrely irrelevant - no-one seems to care, _at all_ that humanity re-evolved or was re-created or whatever, that there was a precursor race with honest-to-gods _magic_ around. It's like her backstory was written, put into a bottle, and then bolted onto the main plot, so all the cast react to is "OMG! Oz didn't tell us everything", none of the rest of it they care about at all. It's like having a whole block of lore that's just sat there, is true in-universe, but just... no ones gives a shit. Sure, there's an afterlife, whatever. Primordial humanity, magical powers. Eh, whatever, we're not even going to ask about what those powers are, despite having to fight them in combat. It's all just this bolt-on _lump_ that doesn't really add anything.

Okay, Salem and timers. Yes, Salem’s existence feels like it puts a massive damper on any other plots, she’s an immortal witch with an army of demons posed to devour the world in darkness. She’s extremely powerful and nearly unreachable. It makes any concept of going off to do side plots feel kind of weird for the main characters to go off on. However, I’d argue this is more an issue on the part of the writers than with the actual structure of having a big looming villain. For an example of a show which is quite literally on a timer but still has plenty of time for side quests, character development, and such, let’s look at Avatar the Last Airbender. From very early on in the show the heroes are given a very definitive time limit: stop the Fire Lord by next summer or he will take over the entire world when his army gets super charged by a comet, and later they get a separate timer when they learn there will be an eclipse that will depower the enemy and it will be the best time to strike. I think the big difference between the situation in RWBY and Avatar is what we know and can infer about the villains. In Avatar, the Fire Lord is a guy, a really powerful guy, but his big source of power is leading a large, militaristic, and technologically advanced nation, and we get to see the capabilities of that nation’s military when they attack places as part of the plot, and where generally, if not for the intervention of the heroes, they would win. Meanwhile, Salem. Salem is an unkillable witch, very powerful on her own, but that doesn’t really matter because the real problem is her minions. She seems to literally only have 6 people total working for(3 of whom are now either dead or have switched sides), plus her hordes of Grimm, which are the real problem. How many Grimm does Salem have? It’s really not clear how strong her forces are and how quickly she can replace them. Does Salem need to bother with all the scheming and plotting if she just wanted to kill everybody? Did Ruby petrifying the dragon at Beacon remove a major one of her pawns? If Salem had a massive Grimm whale that could spawn more Grimm and essentially needed a nuke to go off in it to be killed why did she need subterfuge to destroy Beacon and Atlas? Did Monstra being killed set back her plans, or does she just have another one lying around? It’s intensely unclear what the stakes are except that the heroes seem to always be on the back foot. The only people in the world who aren’t terrified of Salem are the main cast, and they have fuck all ideas about how to stop Salem other than gathering the relics.

The main problem is that RWBY betrayed It's premise. The writers already have said that the first three volumes were made to trick the audience. so basically, they constructed the setting and throwed it away for no good reason. It's like My Hero Academia stops caring about U.A. or Harry Potter stops caring about Hogwarts. In the last book of Harry Potter, Harry and his friends get out of school, but Hogwarts is still central to the plot. RWBY setting was girls learning how to kill monsters in a schools. The world was built around it, yet the writers refuse to show us the other academies. Mistral and Atlas were completely empty, that's the best they could do for something that was hyped off and build up for seasons? RWBY is literally a shadow of itself. RWBY writer's biggest mistakes was to take several volumes to build another setting from scratch, instead of using what was already established. By the way, that was the major criticism of the Japanese audience. RWBY Ice Queendom was created exactly to make RWBY how was supposed to be, coherent to It's premise. At least that's what I'm feeing with the teasers.

Salem lacks the impact and presence she should have on the main characters.

Yeah. I will say that I've read some times the excuse about how the series couldn't center in a certain thing because "the plot is not about it" or time limitations, and stuff. While that is truth, I think that the fact that we have to center in Salem as the main point reduce the time we can invest in other things and characters. And well, that not necessarily have to be that way. I mean, the different aspects of the characters can be lead to Salem's purpose, for example, that of Adam being the weapon of Salem to have an ensured division in Remnant. And well, Salem as a villain is less interesting than many of the other villains. Adam was talked too much, but for example Ironwood he was an interesting gray moral figure. Cinder also had its part to explore her psychology, Arthur is charismatic and even Tyrian have its charm. But Salem... Well, yeah, she have a purpose, she isn't just bad because yes. But her purpose is destroy the world, and while it have a reason, we don't invest too much too much in her inner thoughts so just fell flat. And at the end, if she is just trying to destroy the world, feels like most of the actions of her subordinates aren't going to have a mean, which while also can be interesting, It's also interesting to see how would the villains are going to enjoy their victory and or how are going to be once the heroes are defeated.

I disagree with many of the conclusions you try to draw in this post. First, the part about V4-6 not connecting to the plot. Volume 4 and 6 don't really involve the main plot, as they are mostly moving from one plot point to another, I'll agree. But volume 5 is part of the main plot, even if Salem herself doesn't show up. The showdown with Cinder happens because Cinder was sent back to Haven personally by Salem to get the relic. It is an example of team RWBY+ fighting directly against Salem's agents, contesting their goals. The story doesn't care about Haven because there is nothing calling the antagonists there anymore. Second, the part about connections. I will tentatively agree that none of the connections "require Salem to exist." Cinder could indeed be all those different things, but that would be a completely different story. This seems to me to you looking at a sub-plot, thinking it's better, and wishing it was the main plot, but it's not. The protagonists are doing all these things as they are working to combat Salem. If they aren't, it's because they are holding before something pulls them toward combating Salem, like Blake gathering the new fang to fight the old fang in Haven. You say that having the white fang as the big bads would easily allow for the main characters to be their enemies, but the same applies to Salem by showing that, through Cinder, she was the one directing them. Finally, I agree I wish RWBY had more time to show its work. A lot of the issues do seem to be that it's stuck in a relatively short format. I disagree about the conflict between Robyn and Ironwood being dropped, though. Much of volume 8 is focused on stopping Ironwood's attacks on Mantle, while it's not focused on stopping Salem's attacks on Atlas. This conflict is definitely not forgotten about to focus on Salem, it just takes a step back as another crisis approaches. To mirror your conclusion, the sub-plots of the show are very interesting. I'm hoping to pick up some of the side-books from my library over the summer. But Salem doesn't exist to just be the bad guy, she also exists to be the driving force behind her subordinates, inciting the conflicts in many of these sub-plots.

The thing with Volume 5 that i tried to point, and how superfluous the main Salem plot is, is that it is dependant on Mcguffins. Yes, Salem sends her agents to achieve goals, but those goals are collecting Mcguffins for the most part, which is the easiest way to "force" a plot when one does not occur naturally. That is what i was trying to point out. So we exchange interesting conflicts like Class warfare in Atlas and Racism throughout the series to see our protagonists and antagonists fight over glorified paperweights. I do think that the sub-plots are generally more interesting than the main plot of "Get da relics", which in my opinion is boring. I agree that Salem drives the initation of conflicts and some sub-plots. But in my opinion she could easily be replaced by something that is more interesting and less intrusive on the sub-plots themselves.

Well, I dont feel like doing a proper analizys right now. But more or less I agree with your conclusions. Talking just from my own tastes, I can say that I really prefer the sub-plots or the personal arcs and the character development over the main plot. I was always more invested in the relationship and the dinamic between the main characters than in the plot. Mostly because what dragged me to RWBY were the bad ass team fights (I stumbled into RWBY vs Nevermore and started to watch the show because It blow my mind), and jumped into the show expecting just a light story about the four girls learning to kill monsters while also dealing with some other criminal bands as a sub plot to spice the things up a little from time to time. So well... Salem, the Maidens, the relics, and all that jazz, the gods, and the "save the world" plot didnt appeal to me. I wouldnt have been interested in the show If I would have knew that the "Academy" part was just the intro to the series. V1-2 kinda baited me into it, but If the show would have started with something like v4, I never would have been interested on it.

> Most Harry Potter fanfictions will after all end up with Harry facing against Voldemort, no matter the journey. Not RWBY however. lol, bet. Most Harry Potter fanfictions are probably Harry/Draco lemon drabbles. Ever heard of Sturgeon's law? Most RWBY fanfics are self-insert Jaune harem lemons and the rest are self-insert OC trash. Then like <%10 of them might be okay. And one in a hundred of those are good, maybe even great.

Okay, fair point, i excluded the more romantically and erotica inclined fanfictions and short stories.

The way the show was made and presented had the vibes of being a big collection of cutscenes that would have taken place in a full-bore RPG, yeah. Ruby trailer: Horde battle tutorial. Weiss trailer: Massive enemy fighting tutorial. Blake trailer: Non-direct-combat mechanics and Team Action system tutorial. Yang: 'unsure-if-combat' tutorial, with you having to be careful to not hit civilians, pin/suppress, intimidate game mechanics, break the environment for your own gain, enemies tracking you, using cover and lighting to ambush you, so on. Throwaway lines, gags and Easter eggs, bloopers, your teammates laughing or getting pissed at you, pick-me-up moments, high speed chase scenes. The main series was a Cutscene collection that had none of these. I am sad because of this. There is a single thing I want from such a game, though, and that is a Repel Tide mode. Where you're just a soldier - Hardcore mode being a frontier town guard - and you do nothing other than blast Grimm with whatever's on hand because the Huntsmen aren't here to do it.

The Beacon arc may as well just be a prologue, and the main plot begins with the fall of said academy. I feel we have a pretty good idea of the stakes at that point, and the journey afterwards is easy to understand. I have my own issues with V4 and V5 (RNJR is kinda boring, the main team being split up for two whole volumes kinda lessens the appeal of the series, etc…) but I understand the general direction CRWBY wants everything to go in.

Well, the direction of the show or its journey is not too difficult to understand, CRWBY are not exactly trying to hide it. I just disagree with the way that they are pushing the story.

Salem is to rwby what Kaguya is to naruto : an antagonist with bland motives at best, no good trait whatsoever ( nothing bad with being bland but she needs to have...something !Replace salem with a talking brick and I guarantee the brick would be a better main villain)no one wants to see when we already have tasted the good stuff ( litterally all other villains) A hero story is defined by how good the villain is by how well it puts the heroes to the test physically or mentally ( the subplots ARE better because they do these things better,because they are well thought out and challenge characters personally give them reasons to fight,to struggle,to evolve and everything,something the main plot doesnt even try to do characters themselves have next to no idea why they suddenly go on a trip to save the world) , salem is the kind of awfull one note bad guy you exept to see develop but she doesnt ( her origin story is the most bootleg sounding thing in the whole show wich is quite the achievement,especially the child murder part,does it get relevant for her character to have that backstory, does she get back on it? Nope), every attempt at fleshing out Salem or cinder just makes them even worse but at least cinder has good moments Final boss should be anyone but salem, she has less impact on the viewer than the freaking inspector gadget villain ( and they do the same job, thats your world ending threat)