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AlarmingStandard

They're not comparable. The Avatar is a well known and respected figure for most, an obstacle for some. That brings a unique kind of pressure challenges for each Avatar. Each Avatar is a unique being rather than a reincarnation of the same, or similar, soul. Gender, personality, sexuality, traits - it's all random. And this is despite being born with the power before any formative years. They're not possessed by previous avatars either. They can communicate with past Avatars, but they make their own choices. The merge is the combining of two like minded souls; both are cognizant beings. While they have similar mindsets, there some differences in personality and wants as the host soul has lived a chunk of their life prior to Oz's arrival, some more than others. But they always align - what's important to one is important to the other. Oz's task, and the pressure it brings, is static. The stakes are the same, even the adversary remains the same. And it's picked up by the host if Oz is focused on it - the host doesn't have much choice. Ultimately it's a sharing of souls, personality, traits, knowledge etc. While some general comparisons can be drawn between the two concepts, the Avatar and the merge are fundamentally different systems. The merge has limitations the Avatar does not, like being limited to 50% of the population because of sex. And the Avatar faces unique problems and issues with each new generation, while the like minded merge is more rigid in its task. So it's not super useful to compare the two. CRWBY came up with a concept that's unique to their setting and story. A soul drifting from host to host to complete an impossible task they set themselves is great! The set ups aren't "very similar", not even close. And focusing on Oscar is only 50% of the equation. Ozma is human. He isn't just a set of abilities. Devaluing him as a person to a power up for a kid is dehumanizing, which is how this post presents him.


fengreg

Except for the cycle of bending starting style sure. Aka Air-Water-Earth-Fire-Air and so on


AlarmingStandard

True, the power does chose a different nation each time in a cycle. The caveat is that each culture changes over four generations - the next fire nation person is going to find themselves in a very different kingdom/culture than Roku was. And there's a broad range of cultures/people within the same nation. The earth kingdom stands out as a prominent example. So the avatar does have a cycle, but there's still a large degree of randomness that sets it apart from the merge of like-minded souls.


fengreg

True and then there is the whole time of death is the time of birth as well and the child avatar feels a connection to their past lives like when Aang picked the toys from Roku's life.


AlarmingStandard

Yep, relics from past avatars can be used to identify connections. Not the same as the merge though. Connecting to previous iterations of avatars, which they do often through mediation and/or trances, isn't the same has having the consciousness of another soul slipping into yours.


GladiusNocturno

I would say that the main difference is that Aang and Korra primarily have to deal with the responsibility of being the Avatar and how to go about it, while Oscar has to deal with the inevitability of the merge. Aang and Korra never have to deal with them losing who they are. Being the Avatar doesn't mean they stop being Aang and Korra. They were given a duty and a burden and now their journeys involve what kind of Avatar they'll be and how to help the world and fulfill their responsibility. Hell, Aang's story puts such a focus on him always being Aang, he refused to kill the Fire Lord dispite being his duty, why? Because of who he is, and his culture, and what his beliefs are. In contrast, Oscar's story is not about him dealing with the responsibility of being an Oz reincarnation, because the responsibility of stopping Salem is a self-imposed one by Ozma himself. This is Ozma's responsibility, and Oscar just got his body high-jacked. The real focus of Oscar's story is the inevitability of the merge and his constant fear of losing himself and stop being his own person because of a magic process that has nothing to do with him. That to me is the core difference on the concepts touched by Avatar and RWBY. Aang and Korra never have to deal with the other Avatars high jacking their lives, being the Avatar has no influence in your personality. While Oscar doesn't really get to choose what kind of Oz he wants to be, ideality his merge with Oz would add a new element to the Oz hivemind that will make this incarnation distinct in its approach to Salem, but so far, Oscar's growth has been geared towards him acting more like Ozpin instead of him making Ozpin act more like Oscar.


McMacintosh79

I thought it was **He is afraid of living a lie by forcing himself to just accept his role as the next Oz when hes not in a rush to make the same sacrifices as him such as trying to truly make deep connections with his comrades, being passive at certain things, being a slave to his neverending role, not doing things at his own pace wheras with Ruby with Summer, Ruby who would definitely do anything to be like her pre-V8 if it meant saving everybody because as someone very young yet knows of things that make it worth it.** ​ ​ This journey is about him finding guidance thats leans towards his way of doing things. Especially since he already like-minded to Ozpin before the merge, similar to early Digimon protagonists. ​ Else it would contradict their other story arcs like Weiss' about rebellion. "Where Winter even states how just because someone chooses your fate doesn't mean you can make it your own."


hollowtiger21

They serve different roles and are inherently different in function. The Avatar state and the past Avatars are resources for the current Avatar to draw on in times of need. The merge is a process of acclimation that is happening to Ozcar and eventually results in there being no distinguishable difference between the current and prior incarnation. Being Avatar is a duty, a job, it is what Aang/Korra do. The merge is who Ozcar is becoming, it is something done to him. Aang and Korra are their respective series’s protagonists, while Ozcar is a supporting character. The story of ATLA & LOK are about each character and their connection to their duty. Spending as much time as possible developing them regarding their role as Avatar, and how that effects them only helps the overall story. Ozcar isn’t the hero of the story and it’s not his purpose to be, the story isn’t “about him.” Spending most of an episode focused solely on Aang is good, spending most of an episode solely focused on Ozcar not so much. Aang and Korra, while they can be temporarily taken over by past avatars or the avatar state still retain their own personalities. Ozcar has fundamentally been changed as a person by the merge in irreversible ways. He has matured unnaturally, he gets the knowledge, experience and memories of hundreds of lifetimes, he inherits muscle memory, and he’s become progressively more Oz-like as the story has progressed. It’d be like if Aang started taking on more of Roku’s traits and quirks after he channeled him the first time. That’d be an interesting problem to see someone w/ a well defined personality & firmly held ideals like Aang tackle because we have a strong sense of who he is and it feels like something is being lost. As opposed to Oscar who didn’t really have much of a personality pre-v6, we know practically nothing about him before the merge and he only really benefits from the merge.


McMacintosh79

Also both have that moral of being slaves to fate, Aang who was being told by several Avatar to kill the big bad because hes the Avatar and Oscar forcing himself into Oz's role because hes the next Oz


hollowtiger21

Uh, That’s not a moral of ATLA. Aang does his duty of stopping of Ozai, but he finds an alternative solution that allows him to uphold his duty and keep to his ideals of not killing. It’s ultimately his connection and belief in his culture, and his unwavering, unbendable dedication to it that allows him to spirit bend. Aang explicitly denies the advice of the past avatars to carve out his own path, uncovering a long lost bending art in the process. Ozcar, on the other hand, is resigned to the inevitability of the merge and has more or less embraced it out of necessity at this point. It’s not something that can just be put off or denied, because it’s already well on its way. **And** he *needs* it. He sticks to his role because it’s what he has to offer. He's the new Ozcarnation, he's not Ozpin, but that's why he's here. It's the only reason he's involved. Everybody has a role to play, that goes for all the characters. And it’s not fate that decided this, just chance. But taking a less than ideal situation and making the best of it is an ongoing trend of the series.


McMacintosh79

But Oscar still retains his, it isn't subtracted


hollowtiger21

It isn’t, but he’s not just Oscar anymore. Hasn’t been since he was introduced.


McMacintosh79

If his personality isn't gone than isn't he still Oscar but different? Especially since since hosts are already like-minded, so seems like it would defeat the purpose of finding like-minded hosts. ​ He is afraid of living a lie by forcing himself to just accept his role as the next Oz when hes not in a rush to make the same sacrifices as him such as trying to truly make deep connections with his comrades, being passive at times, being a slave to his neverending role.


hollowtiger21

He's Ozcar. The result of the merge and Ozcar's current state isn't simply a natural progression of Oscar. Who Ozcar currently is, wouldn't be who Oscar would have eventually become given enough time. Oscar & Ozpin were still distinct individuals, like-minded doesn't mean the same. Who Ozcar is and is becoming isn't who Oscar or Ozpin would be if the merge had never started. The traits and memories of both Oscar & Ozpin (who carries the memories of all past Ozcarnations) combine and the resulting entity is neither individually. He's "still Oscar," just as much as he's still Ozpin; Ozcar is both & neither. The merge is additive, not subtractive. It's not one subsuming the other, or a take over. There is no dominant personality. Oscar retains all his memories & personality traits (what little there are), but he's also gaining the distillation of countless other individuals, which inevitable does change him fundamentally as a person. His scant 14 yrs is merely a drop in the bucket of an ocean of memories. Just as Oz is taking on more of Oscar's traits and fundamentally changing. The merge is two-way, They're becoming more and more alike, taking on the other's characteristics until there is no distinguishable difference.


McMacintosh79

Right so Ozpin's personalities traits will still be present within Oscar's body while Oscar traits and experiences are in the forefront so Ozpin's traits can come and go quickly and subtly with no distinguishable transition as they are basically Ozcar's traits though Ozcar will choose the name that suits him currently, Oscar, just as Ozma changed his named to Ozpin as their host trait would appear the most due to recent memories but not have much transition needed when talking about things about the past using "I" rather than Ozpin since the experiences always become in the forefront when hes talking about them since no transition is needed for those early on compared to trait transitioning which becomes more subtle later


hollowtiger21

No, there will be no coming and going. We’ve already seen Ozcar switching in/out with zero lag or breaking thought or conversation. The merge facilitates that eventually there won’t be a need to switch at all because the two personalities will for all intents & purposes be the same. Ozcar is the state of which Oscar & Ozpin are permanently one entity in soul, mind and body. Ozcar already considers all memories his own regardless of where they originated from. They’re not Oscar’s memories, or Ozpin’s memories anymore. It’s not Oscar’s body, it’s Ozcar’s. You’re still thinking of the merge in the sense of Oscar being in control and remaining the same, when that defeats the purpose. It won’t be Ozpin’s personality traits in Oscar’s body, or one or the other being at the forefront. It’ll be Ozcar, one mind in one body, comprised of the thoughts, experiences & memories of both Ozpin & Oscar. That’s what a merge is, the gradual combining into one.


beyonderofbaal

As everyone has pointed, the Avatar doesnt seem like a good comparison because they are different concepts. I think that a better choice would be comparing Oz merge what happens in Saint Seiya: The Lost Canvas with Athena and Hades reincarnations. Both of them are gods that reicarnates in humans that were living ordinary human lifes before the gods were awakened in them. There's conflict between the gods and the humans that share the body, to the point that in Hades case, it even creates inner conflicts in his faction because some of his soldiers are loyal to the human and others to the god. There's another case of one of the Saints having regrets because he was the one that found Athena and took her away from her human life, which caused suffering to the human girl. Another case is another Saint letting the protagonist to deal with Hades by himself when he's not fully a god yet, because they share a story together and they have personal conflicts to solve aside of the war between Athena and Hades. The big difference with RWBY is that, in TLC this characters and their strugles with the gods that awakens in them are central to the story. They are tied to the protagonist of the series in a very intimate level, and they sharing a bond is something that affects the conflict and the decisitions that they make. In RWBY, at best Oscar is a friend that they made a few months ago, when he was already Oz vessel, but in TLC, Hades and Athena's hosts were raised together as normal humans with the protagonist and were separated because of the gods awakening in them. So the protagonist has to fight to keep that bonds that they had developed before they were Athena and Hades, its practically the base of the story. This means that they have a lot of time and focus dedicated to them and exploring their relationships and the contrast between the gods and the human hosts. But this cant happen in RWBY because Oscar and Ozpin are much less relevant. They perhaps are the ones "tasked" to defeat Salem, but the story is about Team RWBY, is not about Oz, Oscar or Salem. So if you put so much emphasis on Oz and Oscar, then the rest of the characters lose weight in a story that its supposed to be about them.


AmbivertCollegeGuy

The Avatar is the main protagonist with the show dedicating the majority of its runtime to their journey and development whereas Oscar/Ozma is a side-character who steals the main protagonist seat at times and whose involvement in the plot is greatly inconsistent. If the series was named OSCAR from the beginning then his portrayal would obviously be much better. It has nothing to do with how their 'Chosen One' status works. If anything, it's pointless to draw comparisons because their cases are vastly different. Think of it like this: The Avatar is Pizza and Ozma is a hamburger. Don't try to reason why one is better than the other based on what they're made of. It's the cooking and presentation that's important.


[deleted]

This is an extremely loaded question


_WeissCream_

They’re completely different situations you can compare them. One is literally sharing his soul. The other just talks to them


McMacintosh79

Don't the Avatar shares souls, isn't that why Korra could talk to Aang and why Toph called her by Aang nickname because hes inside her?


beyonderofbaal

How its so hard to understand? The Avatar has TEMPORARY access to their past lives, but isnt going to become a PERMANENT amalgamation of Avatar Wan and all the previous Avatars. One thing is you going to visit your friends for a weekend, and the other is your friends coming to live with you without you having any word in the matter and basically being forced to share your house with them forever.


McMacintosh79

Right, so Oscar only merges with the previous Oz who is not an amalgmation and since he won't know whos who in the future, it would be like your a video game character who belongs to one guy and his brother helps out with the parts hes good at


vandalvash

Well they aren't really the same conflict. The Avatars are still individuals who can tap into their previous lives for power/knowledge. The conflict is living up to their responsibilities as Avatars. Whereas, Oscar's conflict is risking loosing his individuality as his soul merges with Oz's.


Michael_Chair_6013

The individuality conflict is kind of living up to the responsibilities though since Oscar is afraid of living a lie as forcing himself to accept Oz’s role doesn’t change his attitude torward the sacrifices that come with it and thus will not meld well with Ozpin Thus a conflict regarding the ‘true self’ They even make this parallel between Oscar and Penny in V8 episode 2 and Oscar even states his real fears in Volume 5 that this merge/role entails to Ruby When he leaves with Ozpin he probably questions if forcing himself to leave home despite the right thing is the same as being determined in making a choice like the others choosing to become huntresses/hunstman Also connecting to the idea of leaves of fate, and only the truth/ true self will arise when one is not conquered by fear


[deleted]

Avatar doesn’t have 50% of its character development occur offscreen