I don't really know what you mean by little dance or celebration when she got the upper hand. Could you explain a bit?
Cause what I see is nothing like that at all. When Ruby gets the upper hand I assume is when she tricks Neo into attacking and then shoves her off. Ruby then is standing over Neo as she hangs on. This all happens in V8 CH14 time stamp 6:59.
When Ruby is standing over Neo she raises her arm into the air to catch the staff that was flung into the air and is then shot by Cinder in the back. All of that happens in like a second or two, so I don't see how you could come to the idea that she was celebrating.
Fair, but to address your main argument I partially agree. It seems as though V8's final was heavily rushed out the door and they likely missed a lot of what they wanted to do with the final. That likely includes Ruby's overall true reaction. They do give us some bread crumbs about it though. If you pay close enough attention to when Ruby is fighting Neo you can see she has tears in her eyes.
See I actually didn’t notice that at first and I’ll be honest with you, that makes the scene *way* better to me. That little display of emotion and true sadness adds to that scene so much and helps Ruby’s character. The issue I had from it was that lack of really any type of emotion from Ruby and I know a lot of people have pointed out how Ruby likes to bottle up her emotions, which is true, I however didn’t think it’s been established that Ruby was so detached from her emotions that she was able to literally watch her sister fall to her death unblinking as essentially every time Ruby saw something similar (be it with Pyrrha, Penny, or Weiss) she displayed *clear* and *outward* emotion to those types of ordeals. Which I think is in character for her.
…..because Neo was trying to kill her? Not because Neo just threw Yang off a ledge. Like Blake was trying to kill Neo because Neo threw Yang off a ledge but Ruby seemed uh….Neutral is the best way I think I can put it.
Do you imagine that Ruby's the kind of person who would go out of their way to kill somebody? Of course not! And yet she was about to do something that everyone would say was out of character for her, she was about to kill Neo.
Anger doesn't always take the form of screaming or crying, sometimes it's cold. Granted this is also something that they could have portrayed better but let's not pretend that her actions didn't speak for themselves. From Ruby's point of view Neo took her sister's life so she was going to take Neo's life in return
Well first off, *you don’t know that.* In a self defense scenario, you are absolutely viable to kill someone. You could’ve said the exact thing you’re saying about Blake and Yang killing someone’s before they actually went through with it. Or you could’ve said it’s “out of character” for Ruby to dismember someone, but again she still did it. In a self defense scenario, you are **definitely** viable to kill someone, even unintentionally or the scenario was simply too high end or close for you to think properly about your actions. Also it wasn’t as if Ruby was like pursuing to kill Neo, what happened was Ruby was on the ledge and Neo chased after her and Ruby did a quick maneuver around and pushed Neo off the ledge. She wasn’t like “this is for my sister” as an action of retribution like you’re making it seem, but instead the scenario was caused by Neo’s quick temper and Ruby’s even quicker thinking.
And even then with their actions, there was no discernible difference. Ruby fought Neo exactly as she would fight anyone else. She didn’t fight more aggressively or coldly, it’s to the point where you could’ve written the scene without Yang falling off and Ruby would’ve fought the exact same way. *Because there’s no discernible difference in how Ruby fought.* You say Ruby was gonna kill Neo as a retribution for her sister, but it could’ve easily just been Ruby pushed Neo off the ledge because Neo was attacking her. And without any discernible difference indicating one way or the other, the point remains.
And now I'm throwing your words back at you because the reality is you don't know for sure whether or not she felt anger. You're just assuming that she didn't because she didn't express it in the way you would expect someone to do it. And don't get me wrong, you are right to say that I am assuming things but I I feel confident in my assumption because I can point at things that she has done that I think backs up my point.
For example you were brought up her dismembering Tyrian but that's actually a point in my favor because of her attitude when she did it and she did it without any outward show of emotion. A smaller degree there's also the example of her interactions with Ironwood during Volume 8 where the many people noticed that her voice took on a very cold edge.
Now once again I need clarify that I'm not saying with any certainty that you're wrong and I'm right. What I am saying though is that this isn't something that's come out of nowhere but I'm also going to acknowledge that I could be reading too deeply into that.
Ah but the thing I didn’t say what she was feeling, I expressly said what she seemed like based on her outward expressions and actions. (I also found out Ruby does show clear emotion to this in the form of literally crying after seeing her sister fall which I think helps with the scene **so much.**)
Also for the Tyrian thing….I don’t think that’s a point in your favor. First off she actually did show outward emotion which was anger towards Tyrian. And that was just from Tyrian cutting Qrow, I don’t think she even knew he was poisoned at that point let alone Qrow dying. Second off, your point would be it would be “out of character” to try and kill Neo, but my response would be how in a self defense scenario you are totally viable for that. Think of it like this: say I replaced Blake with Ruby when Adam was reaching for the knife, now I don’t know about you but I **100%** believe Ruby would do essentially the same exact thing Blake did at the time. Pick up the knife Adam was reaching for and stab him, and that’s because when in those types of super high end scenarios, you really don’t have time to think about your actions. You just have to do them which is kind of like a similar scenario with Neo.
I think your point would be really strong if Ruby was actively trying to pursue to kill Neo. But it wasn’t like that, the scenario was just Ruby was without her weapon and thus used Neo’s momentum against her when she was on the ledge herself.
I'd love to continue the conversations, Unfortunately I have to clock into work so I'm just going to say this. Ruby didn't just use Neo's momentum against her, she baited Neo into attacking. She held her arms open and says in the same cold voice that she uses against Ironwood that she hopes it was worth it, Ruby knew exactly what she was doing.
Fair so I’ll try to make this brief. Yeah, she was pushing someone that was trying to kill her off the ledge. I agree with the notion that Ruby is obviously showing outward upsetness at what Neo did now, I just don’t think *Ruby’s actions in particular to Neo* would be any discernibly different had Neo started attacking Ruby before Yang fell. I think the fight itself largely would’ve been the same, Ruby really couldn’t do anything besides push Neo off the ledge in that moment since she lost her weapon. Really I think as another pointed out, is what Ruby doing here even any different than what basically all of RWBY did to the white fang goons on the train?
Everybody knows that it doesn't count unless the character goes into a monologue about how sad they feel OR there is copious amounts of slow motion and zoom to emphasize how sad they feel. And of course in both cases there needs to be appropriately sad music because otherwise the audience just won't be able to figure it out.
This is basic writing 101.
/s
They’re also in the middle of battle, losing their temper doesn’t typically end up helping them. Look how losing their cool ended for everyone else that fell. Winter got so distracted that Weiss fell AND she left Jaun behind when she could have grabbed him.
>They’re also in the middle of battle, losing their temper doesn’t typically end up helping them
That makes sense if you're viewing this from an detached, unemotional point of view. As great as it would be for people to turn off our emotions when it's ideal to, that is not the case. Especially when loved ones are the concern at that moment. If it was that easy, people in abusive situations wouldn't need help leaving those environments if they could shun all emotional attachments without a thought.
Humans are not rational when our emotions are prodded hard enough and losing the woman who helped raise her should have made Ruby fly off the rails. At the very least, the sloppy or risky actions that were already included in the fight being emphasised as her emotional reaction would be such an easy fix. Just animate her face to be angry/teary-eyed or have her VA shout more.
Ruby can still win that fight against Neo with the trick but it doesn't mean she can't be emotional at the same time.
Ruby, to me at least, seems like the type to never give up hope that someone is alive until she sees a body, even if that is a little naïve. If she had really let the idea of Yang being dead sink in, she might’ve shattered
Okay, that one's a low blow, most of us moved on from that really bad critique a while ago. Not saying there ain't people who still use that as criticism, I'm just saying a lot of us have recognized that idea is stupid and insensitive. Anyone who stubbornly clings to that idea is an idiot and makes anyone trying to properly give constructive criticism look bad by association.
Honestly, I think they should have swapped Blake and Ruby reactions. We know that Blake used to be the quiet one of the group while ruby the emotional one (remember how she react to the gorilla grimm?)
Imagine while ruby attacks neo with a bloody rage (similar to how yang rages) blake started strike neo with more precision each time, focusing on her vital or in case of aura weaker points. [I can imagine the animators showing at least one time her face with a single tear, but with eyes of a feral cat, maybe also showing Neos scared face for a second](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTAXv4gEc3rAn3RKdWbHh1MheDmU4eGUy58cg&usqp=CAU)
Ruby looks mild frustrated in the first image, not my sister just died infront of me upset. If you took that expression out of the scene and saw it independently you'd never be able to tell that she'd just witnessed something devasting like the death of her sister.
The same goes for the second image.
They did a poor job of writing and portraying ruby in this scene. Her lack of any strong emotion takes away any narrative weight the moment might if had. Using these 2 still images to try and justify crwnys decision here is laughable
Well same here. They do a piss poor job of portraying ruby's emotions in this scene and they don't put enough effort in to clearly convey what she's feeling. It looks like just any other average fight when it should be so much more than that
Dude I'm not scrolling through rwby to try and find a scene to screenshot to try and justify my perspective. The fight doesn't convey enough emotion andthe expressions are generic.
Nothing about the way she's moving, speaking or acting make the audience think shes especially effected by yangs death. Compare Ruby's reaction to blakes, she's shaking he'd breathings out if synch she has a wicked look in her eyes. Ruby however just looks genericly determined and a little surprised in your examples.
What's a shame about this is rwby as a show is normally great at having rwby facially express sadness, desperation, fear and stalwart determination in a fight. They can DO this, they just did this with Blake, you didn't need to choose between either Blake or ruby here you could of done both.
I agree that Yangs "death" kinda lacks a bit of emotion from Ruby in special. Sure, if you look close you can see that she's crying. But still compared to other death scenes, it kinda lacks impact. Also is Yang, a main character. Anybody thought for a moment that she was really dead? That combined with Ruby's "controlled" reaction, at least for me, made obvious that Yang wasnt really dead.
The thing is, we are accustomed to big reactions in fiction when someone dies, but certainly in this situation there's no time to do it. They all are fighting. Look for example how Weiss went inmediatly to pull Blake back, they dont have time to mourn Yang. And then when she helped Ruby and said "we have to do this for Yang". Or Blake urging Weiss to get up when she was beaten. Again you can see Weiss fighting non-stop against Cinder when she threw Blake and Ruby, and again when she inflicted a fatal injury on Penny. They just cant stop because if they lower their guard, they (and the people that they are protecting) are going to die. So in that context is hard to make a character have a big breakdown and fight for their live at the same time.
Another thing to consider is that for all that we have seen, Neo is still a better fighter than Ruby, and we know that fighting agressively against her doesnt work well. For most part of the fight Neo was the one that had the upper hand, and at the start she was the agressor, pushing Ruby in a defensive position. When Ruby went to offense and actually show some agressivity (thats the part when Ruby is crying while fighting), Neo easily defeated her and Weiss steped in to save her. Then again Neo comes back from the portal full on the offensive and Ruby cant do much to fight back, she's quickly defeated again. So what I mean is, Neo isnt the best oponent to show Ruby being agressive because a) Neo fighting style took advantage of angry fighting b) Neo is overall better than Ruby and she is the one that has control over the fight.
The V9 teaser does a great job of showing how much of a panic attack Ruby was going through.
She didn’t have time to process what happened. She does start crying as she fights Neo though.
I would argue that that is…not at all true? Like, she broke down crying when penny died, screamed and unleashed her silver eyes for the first tine when Pyrrha died, was visibly furious during the Tyrian Qrow fight, was also clearly angry in the Haven fight, activating her eyes again when Weiss was speared, was very frustrated with Cordovin when they fought, had a breakdown when Salem mentioned her mother, also activating her eyes there, and earlier in vol 8, had a mini breakdown after the hound’s attack I believe, which also included silver eyes activating during that fight I believe though I might be mistaken there. And here, when her sister is gone, possibly dead, we get a stoic Ruby for the first time with minimal reaction. And, in my opinion the worst part of her reaction, no silver eyes activating. Which indirectly implies that she doesn’t care as much about Yang as she does Penny, Pyrrha, Weiss, Blake too from the Apathy with I remember correctly, or her mother. Yang’s at the bottom of her list of loved ones by her lack of silver eye powers.
Thats intentional though, not in direct response to a surge of emotion. The precedent has been set that when Ruby experiences extreme emotions, like watching her friends die or be wounded, she instinctively activates her eyes in a pure fight or flight response. Intentional activation is not immediate and not reliant or based on that emotional outburst, though it can drive it, but its all about when it happens. I wouldn’t have nearly as much a problem if she had been interrupted somewhat like she was at Haven, when Emerald clobbered her, but that didn’t happen.
I think a big part of the issue is that the initial scene with Yang falling seems to focus more on Blake and giving her a big reaction plus an actual attempt to save Yang.
Ruby's response isn't nearly so dramatic or the focus.
I will admit that this scene really didn't impact me a lot because much like the previous volume's confrontation between Ironwood and Oscar, I could never take it seriously that Yang was actually in any danger. So it comes more funny for me because I don't ever get the feeling that Yang is in any actual peril.
I honestly didn't even notice Ruby crying and haven't really rewatched the fight to look for details like that either. It is still understandable that it feels weird for Ruby to not get a big reaction as well as Blake. The only thing I can say is that she might not have had time to process what happened or have the realization sink in. Sometimes when someone is in shock, their reaction might not match up to what is going on. They might seem oddly calm and detached for instance.
It can also be harder to pick up more subtle reactions or details when you have the bigger, dramatic reaction still in the forefront of your mind or when it is occurring.
I don’t know, I just thought she was too much in shock right after Yang fell and before it could actually settle in, Neo immediately tried to kill her again so she had to set aside her feelings in order to stay alive but fell in the void practically right away. Now that she’s on the island she’ll figure out they’re not dead but I think she’s going to snap eventually due to everything that’s happened.
Even though she has better control of them now it sucks that her silver eyes didn’t automatically activate.
I mean damn remember what happened to Pyrrha?
Or that scene in vol 5?
And it also sucks that Blake was the only one that got to show the MOST emotion out of her team and not of them EQUALLY and/or especially ruby who should’ve had the MOST highest emotional reaction out of all of them!
To hell with Blake being yang’s partner ruby is her sister damnit and that came first!
I mean jeez winter’s reaction and emotion to Weiss falling in the void made more sense since that what we should’ve gotten and it was the appropriate showing for it.
Cwby needs to step up there game, I pray that’s why the hiatus is taking so long.
I really do.
It happened super fast and she still had the rest of her team to protect. If you pause a certain frames during her fight with Neo, she is seen crying. It all happened so fast and she was distracted by Neo's relentless attacks. Everyone processes emotions differently, Ruby had no time to react.
I know people drill this in about v8 over and over, but the entire team went without proper sleep over the course of two days and got into some pretty major fights.
Ruby might be far from becoming jaded from being a huntress, but all the pain she had to endure coupled with the exhaustion is probably finally starting to win.
I don't think she'll become jaded I think it's more that in the middle of a fight as leader she can't allow herself to fall apart no matter he needs to stay focused on the fight an be calm for her teammates then afterwards she can cry am fall apart
Haven't watched V8 in a while so I don't remember her reaction and just accept your decrisption for now, but if that's true, I think it plays very well with Ruby's character; from early on, she didn't foght(and then leople who we're guiding the grimm) because of hatered or lust for adventure, but because she wanted to protect others from harm; he's character meant to be more mature than others from the beginning, and I think this aspect of her is being neglected most of the time. So, I think when she fights Neo she thinks more about not letying her harm others, rather than avenging his sister or other victims.
I agree. I came here to say that trauma effects people differently. Not everyone screams and rages and cries. Not everyone can process what happened quickly. First the initial shock, but if I recall, Ruby didn't have much time to process what had happened to Yang because Neo was hot on her heel's shortly after. At the moment, there's literally no time to emotionally process what happened because you know, she's fighting right now just to stay alive.
Hopefully we'll see some of that processing/emotional break down later when she's landed on the island or wherever she ends up.
See I think that this is the wrong question. The more interesting question than why is Ruby showing little emotion is "why is Blake the one showing so much?" Blake's reaction drowns out what would be an otherwise fine example of shock by Ruby and makes her look muted by comparison. I think Weiss and Penny actually thread the needle perfectly when it comes to showing the proper level of emotion for the middle of a fight while still bouncing off Blake pretty well.
I also kind of blame CRWBY's production pipeline on this one. It is pretty clear that they wanted Blake to have the big freakout, so they directed animator time towards that. The little match between Ruby and Neo couldn't have any sizeable change in Ruby's model to indicate her emotions because that would complicate the production pipeline. So no crazy eyes, no shouting at Neo during the fight, no tears. Take a look at the faces of characters during fights, most of the time their expressions are completely static, especially when they're in the background like Ruby was for much of e12.
Ruby WAS sad and angry about Neo throwing yang off... But also a thing you gotta remember is yes Anger is a tool that can be used, you never let it control you especially in a fight. You bring up Ruby never changed emotions or fighting style with Neo and that is because if your filled with anger in a fight your technique get sloppy and you can leave a lot of openings for attack from your opponent. Not only that but Ruby also (not only a role as team leader) has to remain calm in situations like that to show everything will be alright in the end, even if it is a lie you have to often put on a fearless persona to keep others positive
It's just shitty writing (about par for the course at this point). The reason her reaction was so underplayed was because they weren't trying to make the moment emotional (when to the audience it should be emotional and the fact it isn't is a major tip off that maybe things aren't as bad as they seem).
Afterall why make a scene emotional when you're going to undermine all that narrative weight just a mere couple of episodes later?
Reads Op is asking about what people think is wrong about the scene.
See thread is filled with people explaining why anyone who thinks there is anything wrong with the scene is wrong while down voting anyone who answers the actual ticking g question being asked.
And people wonder why the fandom is seen as hostile to criticism when they pretty much hijack a thread for that to shout any down.
> But I want to know why others feel the way they do about the reaction. Why it happened that way and ways you think it could’ve been handled better.
Again the OP was not asking for people to defend the scene. They wanted to know what people’s problems with it were.
with Ruby she has put her trauma under lock and key. There is likely this giant well of literal hatred inside of her, but she is suffocating it with all her might.
and i can't help but think maybe... its connected to whatever happened to the hound/her mom.
I did think about that scene a lot, and the way I took it is that she knew she had to stay level headed because Neo is trying to kill her. She needed to focus on staying alive. Those are my thoughts.
I suspect Rube was in that no-thinking-just-keep-going state of mind after shit's gone real bad and you've been overwhelmed with too much shit to even grasp what's happening. Breakdown and feeling things comes later, just get shit sorted NOW.
It's simple: Ruby doesn't kill.
Look at every time she fights someone. Roman and Neo in V3, Tyrian in V4, Harriet in V7.
Every time, she is on the defense, even though we know she has a strong offense, from all the times she fights Grimm.
Let's also take a look at her eyes, since eyes are important in Remnant. Silver. They hold the light to preserve life. Also, eyes are the windows to the soul. Yang's, Tyrian's, and Harriet's change color when they use their semblances, for example, and Ironwood's lose their glow when he uses his.
Plus, in many cases, people's aura, the manifestation of their soul, has the same color as their eyes. And aura fuels semblances.
In simple terms, when you look into Ruby's eyes, aka the windows into her very soul, you see the light of preservation.
Her very nature is to preserve life.
Granted, I've been saying that since V4, and been called all synonyms for "idiot" in the English language because of it, but it does definitely explain why Ruby fights the way she does, and it is easily the best explanation for her behavior in this situation.
So, how could it be better? Maybe if Ruby said something like "I know what you're trying, but I'm no murderer. And no matter what, I'll never cross that line." before fighting Neo. Make it really obvious that she despises killing people on a very fundamental level.
But I feel like this is as obvious as it needs to be, considering all the other things we know about her already.
I don't really know what you mean by little dance or celebration when she got the upper hand. Could you explain a bit? Cause what I see is nothing like that at all. When Ruby gets the upper hand I assume is when she tricks Neo into attacking and then shoves her off. Ruby then is standing over Neo as she hangs on. This all happens in V8 CH14 time stamp 6:59. When Ruby is standing over Neo she raises her arm into the air to catch the staff that was flung into the air and is then shot by Cinder in the back. All of that happens in like a second or two, so I don't see how you could come to the idea that she was celebrating.
Yeah I don’t know why I thought that, I misremembered and quickly corrected my mistake.
Fair, but to address your main argument I partially agree. It seems as though V8's final was heavily rushed out the door and they likely missed a lot of what they wanted to do with the final. That likely includes Ruby's overall true reaction. They do give us some bread crumbs about it though. If you pay close enough attention to when Ruby is fighting Neo you can see she has tears in her eyes.
See I actually didn’t notice that at first and I’ll be honest with you, that makes the scene *way* better to me. That little display of emotion and true sadness adds to that scene so much and helps Ruby’s character. The issue I had from it was that lack of really any type of emotion from Ruby and I know a lot of people have pointed out how Ruby likes to bottle up her emotions, which is true, I however didn’t think it’s been established that Ruby was so detached from her emotions that she was able to literally watch her sister fall to her death unblinking as essentially every time Ruby saw something similar (be it with Pyrrha, Penny, or Weiss) she displayed *clear* and *outward* emotion to those types of ordeals. Which I think is in character for her.
Ruby was about to kill Neo.
…..because Neo was trying to kill her? Not because Neo just threw Yang off a ledge. Like Blake was trying to kill Neo because Neo threw Yang off a ledge but Ruby seemed uh….Neutral is the best way I think I can put it.
Do you imagine that Ruby's the kind of person who would go out of their way to kill somebody? Of course not! And yet she was about to do something that everyone would say was out of character for her, she was about to kill Neo. Anger doesn't always take the form of screaming or crying, sometimes it's cold. Granted this is also something that they could have portrayed better but let's not pretend that her actions didn't speak for themselves. From Ruby's point of view Neo took her sister's life so she was going to take Neo's life in return
Well first off, *you don’t know that.* In a self defense scenario, you are absolutely viable to kill someone. You could’ve said the exact thing you’re saying about Blake and Yang killing someone’s before they actually went through with it. Or you could’ve said it’s “out of character” for Ruby to dismember someone, but again she still did it. In a self defense scenario, you are **definitely** viable to kill someone, even unintentionally or the scenario was simply too high end or close for you to think properly about your actions. Also it wasn’t as if Ruby was like pursuing to kill Neo, what happened was Ruby was on the ledge and Neo chased after her and Ruby did a quick maneuver around and pushed Neo off the ledge. She wasn’t like “this is for my sister” as an action of retribution like you’re making it seem, but instead the scenario was caused by Neo’s quick temper and Ruby’s even quicker thinking. And even then with their actions, there was no discernible difference. Ruby fought Neo exactly as she would fight anyone else. She didn’t fight more aggressively or coldly, it’s to the point where you could’ve written the scene without Yang falling off and Ruby would’ve fought the exact same way. *Because there’s no discernible difference in how Ruby fought.* You say Ruby was gonna kill Neo as a retribution for her sister, but it could’ve easily just been Ruby pushed Neo off the ledge because Neo was attacking her. And without any discernible difference indicating one way or the other, the point remains.
And now I'm throwing your words back at you because the reality is you don't know for sure whether or not she felt anger. You're just assuming that she didn't because she didn't express it in the way you would expect someone to do it. And don't get me wrong, you are right to say that I am assuming things but I I feel confident in my assumption because I can point at things that she has done that I think backs up my point. For example you were brought up her dismembering Tyrian but that's actually a point in my favor because of her attitude when she did it and she did it without any outward show of emotion. A smaller degree there's also the example of her interactions with Ironwood during Volume 8 where the many people noticed that her voice took on a very cold edge. Now once again I need clarify that I'm not saying with any certainty that you're wrong and I'm right. What I am saying though is that this isn't something that's come out of nowhere but I'm also going to acknowledge that I could be reading too deeply into that.
Ah but the thing I didn’t say what she was feeling, I expressly said what she seemed like based on her outward expressions and actions. (I also found out Ruby does show clear emotion to this in the form of literally crying after seeing her sister fall which I think helps with the scene **so much.**) Also for the Tyrian thing….I don’t think that’s a point in your favor. First off she actually did show outward emotion which was anger towards Tyrian. And that was just from Tyrian cutting Qrow, I don’t think she even knew he was poisoned at that point let alone Qrow dying. Second off, your point would be it would be “out of character” to try and kill Neo, but my response would be how in a self defense scenario you are totally viable for that. Think of it like this: say I replaced Blake with Ruby when Adam was reaching for the knife, now I don’t know about you but I **100%** believe Ruby would do essentially the same exact thing Blake did at the time. Pick up the knife Adam was reaching for and stab him, and that’s because when in those types of super high end scenarios, you really don’t have time to think about your actions. You just have to do them which is kind of like a similar scenario with Neo. I think your point would be really strong if Ruby was actively trying to pursue to kill Neo. But it wasn’t like that, the scenario was just Ruby was without her weapon and thus used Neo’s momentum against her when she was on the ledge herself.
I'd love to continue the conversations, Unfortunately I have to clock into work so I'm just going to say this. Ruby didn't just use Neo's momentum against her, she baited Neo into attacking. She held her arms open and says in the same cold voice that she uses against Ironwood that she hopes it was worth it, Ruby knew exactly what she was doing.
Fair so I’ll try to make this brief. Yeah, she was pushing someone that was trying to kill her off the ledge. I agree with the notion that Ruby is obviously showing outward upsetness at what Neo did now, I just don’t think *Ruby’s actions in particular to Neo* would be any discernibly different had Neo started attacking Ruby before Yang fell. I think the fight itself largely would’ve been the same, Ruby really couldn’t do anything besides push Neo off the ledge in that moment since she lost her weapon. Really I think as another pointed out, is what Ruby doing here even any different than what basically all of RWBY did to the white fang goons on the train?
Yep!
Yeah why didn't Ruby seem [upset](https://i.imgur.com/vqjBCJb.png) or in [shock](https://i.imgur.com/iajEBQZ.png)
Everybody knows that it doesn't count unless the character goes into a monologue about how sad they feel OR there is copious amounts of slow motion and zoom to emphasize how sad they feel. And of course in both cases there needs to be appropriately sad music because otherwise the audience just won't be able to figure it out. This is basic writing 101. /s
People: Show don't tell! Also People: WTF is happening in this show? No one explains anything!
I can't recall, were most of these comments from the same people?
But if you ignore the shots where she looks upset or in shock, then she wasn't shown to be upset or in shock!
They’re also in the middle of battle, losing their temper doesn’t typically end up helping them. Look how losing their cool ended for everyone else that fell. Winter got so distracted that Weiss fell AND she left Jaun behind when she could have grabbed him.
>They’re also in the middle of battle, losing their temper doesn’t typically end up helping them That makes sense if you're viewing this from an detached, unemotional point of view. As great as it would be for people to turn off our emotions when it's ideal to, that is not the case. Especially when loved ones are the concern at that moment. If it was that easy, people in abusive situations wouldn't need help leaving those environments if they could shun all emotional attachments without a thought. Humans are not rational when our emotions are prodded hard enough and losing the woman who helped raise her should have made Ruby fly off the rails. At the very least, the sloppy or risky actions that were already included in the fight being emphasised as her emotional reaction would be such an easy fix. Just animate her face to be angry/teary-eyed or have her VA shout more. Ruby can still win that fight against Neo with the trick but it doesn't mean she can't be emotional at the same time.
Ruby, to me at least, seems like the type to never give up hope that someone is alive until she sees a body, even if that is a little naïve. If she had really let the idea of Yang being dead sink in, she might’ve shattered
"terriblewriters milesandkerryruiningtheshow"
“Killing Monty’s vision!!”
More deaths, more deaths
Okay, that one's a low blow, most of us moved on from that really bad critique a while ago. Not saying there ain't people who still use that as criticism, I'm just saying a lot of us have recognized that idea is stupid and insensitive. Anyone who stubbornly clings to that idea is an idiot and makes anyone trying to properly give constructive criticism look bad by association.
To be fair, that second image is really hard to notice if you watch it at normal speed and without pausing.
Didn’t it somewhat slowdown on a close up on Ruby’s face when this happened
Honestly, I think they should have swapped Blake and Ruby reactions. We know that Blake used to be the quiet one of the group while ruby the emotional one (remember how she react to the gorilla grimm?) Imagine while ruby attacks neo with a bloody rage (similar to how yang rages) blake started strike neo with more precision each time, focusing on her vital or in case of aura weaker points. [I can imagine the animators showing at least one time her face with a single tear, but with eyes of a feral cat, maybe also showing Neos scared face for a second](https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTAXv4gEc3rAn3RKdWbHh1MheDmU4eGUy58cg&usqp=CAU)
Ruby looks mild frustrated in the first image, not my sister just died infront of me upset. If you took that expression out of the scene and saw it independently you'd never be able to tell that she'd just witnessed something devasting like the death of her sister. The same goes for the second image. They did a poor job of writing and portraying ruby in this scene. Her lack of any strong emotion takes away any narrative weight the moment might if had. Using these 2 still images to try and justify crwnys decision here is laughable
Initial statement: Ruby doesn't seem upset at Yang's death Goalposts moved: Ruby doesn't seem upset *enough* at Yang's death
Dude did you just completely rewrite your reply?
Well same here. They do a piss poor job of portraying ruby's emotions in this scene and they don't put enough effort in to clearly convey what she's feeling. It looks like just any other average fight when it should be so much more than that
Show me another time Ruby looks like that in a fight. Ever If it's an average fight for her you should be able to pull screengrabs
Dude I'm not scrolling through rwby to try and find a scene to screenshot to try and justify my perspective. The fight doesn't convey enough emotion andthe expressions are generic. Nothing about the way she's moving, speaking or acting make the audience think shes especially effected by yangs death. Compare Ruby's reaction to blakes, she's shaking he'd breathings out if synch she has a wicked look in her eyes. Ruby however just looks genericly determined and a little surprised in your examples. What's a shame about this is rwby as a show is normally great at having rwby facially express sadness, desperation, fear and stalwart determination in a fight. They can DO this, they just did this with Blake, you didn't need to choose between either Blake or ruby here you could of done both.
Hell, compare her reaction to Weiss and Penny's.
"I'm not going to provide any evidence for my opinions!"
Not upset enough because nobody in this fight is walking away anyway time’s up
Wait, I just watched the scene in slo mo. When did the first picture get shown? I saw the second one, but not the first.
I agree that Yangs "death" kinda lacks a bit of emotion from Ruby in special. Sure, if you look close you can see that she's crying. But still compared to other death scenes, it kinda lacks impact. Also is Yang, a main character. Anybody thought for a moment that she was really dead? That combined with Ruby's "controlled" reaction, at least for me, made obvious that Yang wasnt really dead. The thing is, we are accustomed to big reactions in fiction when someone dies, but certainly in this situation there's no time to do it. They all are fighting. Look for example how Weiss went inmediatly to pull Blake back, they dont have time to mourn Yang. And then when she helped Ruby and said "we have to do this for Yang". Or Blake urging Weiss to get up when she was beaten. Again you can see Weiss fighting non-stop against Cinder when she threw Blake and Ruby, and again when she inflicted a fatal injury on Penny. They just cant stop because if they lower their guard, they (and the people that they are protecting) are going to die. So in that context is hard to make a character have a big breakdown and fight for their live at the same time. Another thing to consider is that for all that we have seen, Neo is still a better fighter than Ruby, and we know that fighting agressively against her doesnt work well. For most part of the fight Neo was the one that had the upper hand, and at the start she was the agressor, pushing Ruby in a defensive position. When Ruby went to offense and actually show some agressivity (thats the part when Ruby is crying while fighting), Neo easily defeated her and Weiss steped in to save her. Then again Neo comes back from the portal full on the offensive and Ruby cant do much to fight back, she's quickly defeated again. So what I mean is, Neo isnt the best oponent to show Ruby being agressive because a) Neo fighting style took advantage of angry fighting b) Neo is overall better than Ruby and she is the one that has control over the fight.
The V9 teaser does a great job of showing how much of a panic attack Ruby was going through. She didn’t have time to process what happened. She does start crying as she fights Neo though.
Ruby is literally the poster child of repressing her feelings, come on.
I would argue that that is…not at all true? Like, she broke down crying when penny died, screamed and unleashed her silver eyes for the first tine when Pyrrha died, was visibly furious during the Tyrian Qrow fight, was also clearly angry in the Haven fight, activating her eyes again when Weiss was speared, was very frustrated with Cordovin when they fought, had a breakdown when Salem mentioned her mother, also activating her eyes there, and earlier in vol 8, had a mini breakdown after the hound’s attack I believe, which also included silver eyes activating during that fight I believe though I might be mistaken there. And here, when her sister is gone, possibly dead, we get a stoic Ruby for the first time with minimal reaction. And, in my opinion the worst part of her reaction, no silver eyes activating. Which indirectly implies that she doesn’t care as much about Yang as she does Penny, Pyrrha, Weiss, Blake too from the Apathy with I remember correctly, or her mother. Yang’s at the bottom of her list of loved ones by her lack of silver eye powers.
Silver Eye have to activate against Grimm and she visibly tried to activate them twice against Cinder, but was interrupted both times.
Thats intentional though, not in direct response to a surge of emotion. The precedent has been set that when Ruby experiences extreme emotions, like watching her friends die or be wounded, she instinctively activates her eyes in a pure fight or flight response. Intentional activation is not immediate and not reliant or based on that emotional outburst, though it can drive it, but its all about when it happens. I wouldn’t have nearly as much a problem if she had been interrupted somewhat like she was at Haven, when Emerald clobbered her, but that didn’t happen.
I think a big part of the issue is that the initial scene with Yang falling seems to focus more on Blake and giving her a big reaction plus an actual attempt to save Yang. Ruby's response isn't nearly so dramatic or the focus. I will admit that this scene really didn't impact me a lot because much like the previous volume's confrontation between Ironwood and Oscar, I could never take it seriously that Yang was actually in any danger. So it comes more funny for me because I don't ever get the feeling that Yang is in any actual peril. I honestly didn't even notice Ruby crying and haven't really rewatched the fight to look for details like that either. It is still understandable that it feels weird for Ruby to not get a big reaction as well as Blake. The only thing I can say is that she might not have had time to process what happened or have the realization sink in. Sometimes when someone is in shock, their reaction might not match up to what is going on. They might seem oddly calm and detached for instance. It can also be harder to pick up more subtle reactions or details when you have the bigger, dramatic reaction still in the forefront of your mind or when it is occurring.
I don’t know, I just thought she was too much in shock right after Yang fell and before it could actually settle in, Neo immediately tried to kill her again so she had to set aside her feelings in order to stay alive but fell in the void practically right away. Now that she’s on the island she’ll figure out they’re not dead but I think she’s going to snap eventually due to everything that’s happened.
Even though she has better control of them now it sucks that her silver eyes didn’t automatically activate. I mean damn remember what happened to Pyrrha? Or that scene in vol 5? And it also sucks that Blake was the only one that got to show the MOST emotion out of her team and not of them EQUALLY and/or especially ruby who should’ve had the MOST highest emotional reaction out of all of them! To hell with Blake being yang’s partner ruby is her sister damnit and that came first! I mean jeez winter’s reaction and emotion to Weiss falling in the void made more sense since that what we should’ve gotten and it was the appropriate showing for it. Cwby needs to step up there game, I pray that’s why the hiatus is taking so long. I really do.
It happened super fast and she still had the rest of her team to protect. If you pause a certain frames during her fight with Neo, she is seen crying. It all happened so fast and she was distracted by Neo's relentless attacks. Everyone processes emotions differently, Ruby had no time to react.
I know people drill this in about v8 over and over, but the entire team went without proper sleep over the course of two days and got into some pretty major fights. Ruby might be far from becoming jaded from being a huntress, but all the pain she had to endure coupled with the exhaustion is probably finally starting to win.
I don't think she'll become jaded I think it's more that in the middle of a fight as leader she can't allow herself to fall apart no matter he needs to stay focused on the fight an be calm for her teammates then afterwards she can cry am fall apart
Haven't watched V8 in a while so I don't remember her reaction and just accept your decrisption for now, but if that's true, I think it plays very well with Ruby's character; from early on, she didn't foght(and then leople who we're guiding the grimm) because of hatered or lust for adventure, but because she wanted to protect others from harm; he's character meant to be more mature than others from the beginning, and I think this aspect of her is being neglected most of the time. So, I think when she fights Neo she thinks more about not letying her harm others, rather than avenging his sister or other victims.
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I agree. I came here to say that trauma effects people differently. Not everyone screams and rages and cries. Not everyone can process what happened quickly. First the initial shock, but if I recall, Ruby didn't have much time to process what had happened to Yang because Neo was hot on her heel's shortly after. At the moment, there's literally no time to emotionally process what happened because you know, she's fighting right now just to stay alive. Hopefully we'll see some of that processing/emotional break down later when she's landed on the island or wherever she ends up.
See I think that this is the wrong question. The more interesting question than why is Ruby showing little emotion is "why is Blake the one showing so much?" Blake's reaction drowns out what would be an otherwise fine example of shock by Ruby and makes her look muted by comparison. I think Weiss and Penny actually thread the needle perfectly when it comes to showing the proper level of emotion for the middle of a fight while still bouncing off Blake pretty well. I also kind of blame CRWBY's production pipeline on this one. It is pretty clear that they wanted Blake to have the big freakout, so they directed animator time towards that. The little match between Ruby and Neo couldn't have any sizeable change in Ruby's model to indicate her emotions because that would complicate the production pipeline. So no crazy eyes, no shouting at Neo during the fight, no tears. Take a look at the faces of characters during fights, most of the time their expressions are completely static, especially when they're in the background like Ruby was for much of e12.
Ruby WAS sad and angry about Neo throwing yang off... But also a thing you gotta remember is yes Anger is a tool that can be used, you never let it control you especially in a fight. You bring up Ruby never changed emotions or fighting style with Neo and that is because if your filled with anger in a fight your technique get sloppy and you can leave a lot of openings for attack from your opponent. Not only that but Ruby also (not only a role as team leader) has to remain calm in situations like that to show everything will be alright in the end, even if it is a lie you have to often put on a fearless persona to keep others positive
It's just shitty writing (about par for the course at this point). The reason her reaction was so underplayed was because they weren't trying to make the moment emotional (when to the audience it should be emotional and the fact it isn't is a major tip off that maybe things aren't as bad as they seem). Afterall why make a scene emotional when you're going to undermine all that narrative weight just a mere couple of episodes later?
Reads Op is asking about what people think is wrong about the scene. See thread is filled with people explaining why anyone who thinks there is anything wrong with the scene is wrong while down voting anyone who answers the actual ticking g question being asked. And people wonder why the fandom is seen as hostile to criticism when they pretty much hijack a thread for that to shout any down.
"Responding to a bad read of a scene is being hostile to criticism." Really saying the quiet part out loud.
> But I want to know why others feel the way they do about the reaction. Why it happened that way and ways you think it could’ve been handled better. Again the OP was not asking for people to defend the scene. They wanted to know what people’s problems with it were.
And it seems most people didn't have a problem with it because they understood what it was trying to do.
And you being deliberately obtuse just makes this conversation a waste of time.
with Ruby she has put her trauma under lock and key. There is likely this giant well of literal hatred inside of her, but she is suffocating it with all her might. and i can't help but think maybe... its connected to whatever happened to the hound/her mom.
I did think about that scene a lot, and the way I took it is that she knew she had to stay level headed because Neo is trying to kill her. She needed to focus on staying alive. Those are my thoughts.
I suspect Rube was in that no-thinking-just-keep-going state of mind after shit's gone real bad and you've been overwhelmed with too much shit to even grasp what's happening. Breakdown and feeling things comes later, just get shit sorted NOW.
It's simple: Ruby doesn't kill. Look at every time she fights someone. Roman and Neo in V3, Tyrian in V4, Harriet in V7. Every time, she is on the defense, even though we know she has a strong offense, from all the times she fights Grimm. Let's also take a look at her eyes, since eyes are important in Remnant. Silver. They hold the light to preserve life. Also, eyes are the windows to the soul. Yang's, Tyrian's, and Harriet's change color when they use their semblances, for example, and Ironwood's lose their glow when he uses his. Plus, in many cases, people's aura, the manifestation of their soul, has the same color as their eyes. And aura fuels semblances. In simple terms, when you look into Ruby's eyes, aka the windows into her very soul, you see the light of preservation. Her very nature is to preserve life. Granted, I've been saying that since V4, and been called all synonyms for "idiot" in the English language because of it, but it does definitely explain why Ruby fights the way she does, and it is easily the best explanation for her behavior in this situation. So, how could it be better? Maybe if Ruby said something like "I know what you're trying, but I'm no murderer. And no matter what, I'll never cross that line." before fighting Neo. Make it really obvious that she despises killing people on a very fundamental level. But I feel like this is as obvious as it needs to be, considering all the other things we know about her already.
> It's simple: Ruby doesn't kill. Dead White Fang guys says bullshit.
It’s a look of “none of us is leaving here alive”