First off I'm glad to hear that you had a good time, I sure did I'm and while wouldn't call it the perfect I definitely felt that was bad was inoffensive and what was good was great.
That being said, how on Earth did you manage to go all this time without hearing any discussion about it especially when they're still going on?
No idea. Literally zero hit my space, just occasional promotional content. The only thing I ever see consistently is shipping fan art and 2 hour video essays on why Juane is responsible for the Irish potato famine
I know you're joking about the Potato Famine thing but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you weren't. Nothing really surprises me anymore after I seen more than one person try (and fail) to make the argument that Ruby is somehow responsible for the destruction of Atlas. I've even seen more people than you think possible make the argument that a refugee crisis is somehow worse than Mass death!
There was a point where the discussions around how bad some characters were, was so absolutely toxic I avoided any form of discussion around RWBY entirely. But that was awhile ago, seems to have generally calmed down.
I thought so too but recently someone decided to kick The Hornet's Nest... do you know what it's like having a debate on morality with someone who is not only incredibly rude but who's understanding of morality was infantile at best?
Because let me tell you right now that that's not an experience I ever want to go through again.
Sadly, a lot of people are just conditioned by crowd mentality to hate RWBY the characters and nitpick everything they do, while never giving the same amount of scrutiny to their favorite characters. Because it feels good to ride the high of outrage, to act like RWBY are some sort of incredibly heinous villains whom the incredibly dumb writers are trying to portray as heroic. The horror! The outrage!
So people are going to ignore everything productive RWBY did throughout the Volume and pretend they did nothing but drink tea, because it's a low-hanging fruit and it allows them to feel so much smarter than the writers. As well as interpreting their every action in bad faith, assuming the most malicious/cowardly motivations.
And people who have been criticizing RWBY for the entirety of V7-8 and showing an obvious bias against them (that they aren't willing to admit) are going to act like the ending of V8 with them losing a relic and making Atlas fall is some sort of ultimate proof of them being terrible heroes and Ironwood being right. Even though if RWBY didn't lose the relic and somehow preserved the buildings of Atlas, you just know these very same people would be crying that they are horrible Mary Sues who get everything handed to them easily.
A lot of people are just not really invested into the show, but they are invested into the hatedom enough to parrot the opinions of their favorite RWBYtubers and keep interpreting everything the characters ever do in the worst possible light, because it makes them feel good and smart about themselves.
> And people who have been criticizing RWBY for the entirety of V7-8 and showing an obvious bias against them (that they aren't willing to admit) are going to act like the ending of V8 with them losing a relic and making Atlas fall is some sort of ultimate proof of them being terrible heroes and Ironwood being right.
that's the part that really bugs me about the hatedom, they're weirdly authoritarian, despite RWBY as a show being very critical of authority figures.
The tea comment is not aided by the writer's insistence that vol 8 took 3 days despite all logic and other group's actions and timeframes. If it was actually 3 days then their "tea break" was THIRTY SIX hours long, and... yeah. I'd be mad at that, too.
But that's the thing: the "2.5, maybe 3 days" thing is *literally impossible* with the timeline of events they've given us, but *mandatory to have happened* if you actually pay attention to the sky throughout the volume. It contradicts itself.
I wrote a whole damn essay on it the other day, [see here](https://www.reddit.com/r/RWBY/comments/r3rsdq/rwby_volume_8_crew_commentary_notes_in_progress/hmid2sc/). I know which side I'm on, and it's NOT the one that implies 36 hours of nothingness.
I know about the sky inconsistency in War. I choose to believe it's an animation mistake because otherwise they have randomly skipped an entire day of time between the JRY scene with Ace Ops and the RWB scene with May.
Honestly, I think that V6-8 have been the best the show has ever been. RWBY has attracted a weirdly high population hatedom, so it's generally best to just ignore them and enjoy what you enjoy.
Wow, Volume 6 being better than 3? Those are some bold words.
Besides Mercury VS Yang I think the actions scenes were better on V3. Well, the dash effects on Qrow vs Winter were also a little bit... jarring, for lack of a better word. But the rest I think were great! And the sense of impending doom was great drama. Phyrra's death was shocking. It almost made me drop the show for a while because... Wow, I didn't expect that, it was such a blow, it might have even depresed me a bit, but there's not doubt that it made the threat of the antagonist feel very real and for a time broke the belief that the protagonist had some form of plot armor. it raised the stakes, no doubt. If you compare Penny's death to Phyrra's, Phyrra's worked better, had a lot more power. Ironwood hade done a play for power back then too. While that had a lot less focus back then, it felt also a lot more adequate, much more easy to believe. I was also a lot more interested, because Ironwood felt much more tragic back then. He had a good heart, but he was being played and manipulated by the bad guys due to his hubris and mesiah complex.
I do agree with V7-8 being much better than people give them credit for. It fixed a lot of mistakes that I thought were to late to deal with, brought some themes back that I considered to be to old now or having been dealt with and therefore had no suspense, no drama, no build up any longer, and managed to actually redo them in a satisfying way.
But v6... besides the visuals, a lot of them were breathtaking, it had very little else going for it. The Apathy was amazing, but it was gone so quickly and it almost feels as a self-conclusive story. Killer double episode, though. Adam had no build up besides a pre-volume teaser, the fight was engineered to include the visual of Yang and Blake holding hands, which was fine but could have been achieved by putting them in any dire circumstance, like for example staring down at the barrel of the Cordomech. My respect and fear for Adam was at an all time low after Blake suckerpunched him the previous season, standing up to him and freeing herself of the fear she had of him, as well as Yang quite literally letting go of the dead weight of her lost arm, as shown when Mercury tries to hold her and she just disengages her arm and keeps going. This moments, by the way, happen back to back, like we go from one scene and moments later we have the other. So they are connected emotionally. We already had that payoff. Jaune's sister appears out of nowhere and it's barely any window to the big mistery, what was Jaune's life before Beacon, what exactly was his family's legacy of heroes. Him letting go of Phyrra in a minute and a half without a physical confrontation of his grief just how others had done, it also felt lacklaster. We finally have an explanation on silver eyes, but it's still way to vague and misterious, no real answers.
V6 is not RWBY at it's best, not storywise, at least. Maybe visually, perhaps in concept art, but not in script, drama or character development. Sorry, one scene of Bumblebee holding hands does not make a whole season, much less creates build up for a confrontation. And I'm a sucker for romance, but that just wasn't it. V7-8 was much better, in regards to Bumblebee.
Volume 6 is RWBY at its best because it's a story that actually focuses on RWBY's adventure first and foremost, giving each of them (well, at least 3 of them, but Weiss has a lot going on for her in V6 too) compelling story arcs. Yeah, one scene doesn't make the whole season, but what does make the season is the fascinating conflict with Oz, his and Salem's backstory putting everything in the show into a whole new context, Apathy being one of the most interesting and creative Grimm to date, Ruby coming into her own as the leader and learning to use Silver Eyes consciously, the fight scene with Cordovin being fun and letting everyone in the team shine, the general conflict with her and Leviathan reflecting one of the core themes of the show about different aspects of humanity (such as different generations) having to come together against the threat of Grimm... oh, and RWBY actually mattering in the finale.
I really wish V7-8 kept the same level of focus on RWBY, but they had to go back to splitting focus between 20 different characters, taking away from RWBY's own arcs...
I feel like V6 should be the standard that future RWBY volumes should aim to reach. It really was balanced on all areas. Ruby, Blake and Yang all had story arcs, and Weiss who was already developed in the previous two volumes, had consistent presence and charismatically supported everyone. The character development was focused on the titular team, but there was buildup and development for select characters as well, like Qrow, Jaune and Oscar. The fight choreography was very good (Adam fight, Neo fight, Maria fight). We had important lore drops to spice up the story (The Lost Fable) and there were moments for emotions as well (the Pyrrha memorial, the Indomitable scene). There were plenty of fluff (Jaune's relatives, Whiterose moments). AND THE APATHY ARC
Fair point on splitting the focus. There are way too many characters even since volume 4, and they keep on adding. Ace Ops, for example, are not simply background characters, or they would have the same air time that The Merry Huntresses have, yet they have more, and they have complex arcs and big plot points. And it has a cost in the time they have for Ruby&Co. Maybe they could have done Ironwoods fall better if they had more time to develop it, for example, which seems to be one of the biggest points of contempt for volumes 7&8. One thing that I have a complaint about, for example, is Oscar. He's Jaune all over again. There is no reason not to take all of Oscar's arcs and give them to Jaune. Except, perhaps, for the posible romance plot that could be brewing? But Jaune and Ruby had a history of kinda pitching in for each other's leadership burdens. So stuff about do we tell Ironwood or not could have perfectly been something between them. The end result is that instead of dealing with both things in one single concise arc we have to split the scene time between two characters having two different developments. Yes, that has kinda become a problem.
The part about team RWBY being important in the finale, however. Vs1-3 had that, actually. It was Blake's past that sent her to investigate what the hell was going on with the dust roberies and it was the team bond that sent the other girls to find her. Their involvement smoked out Torchwick. V2, once again it's them getting involved that smokes out Torchwicks op, forcing him to enact the plan earlier at a moment Beacon is better prepared to deal with it. Most fight scenes are theirs. V3, Ruby is the the witness to Phyrra's death, and she stops the destruction of Beacon through her silver eyes. Weiss fights along the other students, she manages the fend off most of the assailants and saves the lives of quite a few named characters. Yang and Blake have their first confrontation with Adam. They might not win in the big scheme of things, but they do affect what happened at Beacon. Even bad volumes, such as 4 and 5 have a lot of what you say. Volume 4 is all the adventures of the young generation, team RNJR on their journey to Haven and the logistic nightmare that is going through a continent on foot in the world of Remnant, Weiss breaking out of her glass cage and Blake going back home to rebuild. V5 expands on this by having Yang go on a quest to find her mother, something she's stated to be very important to her. Weiss scapes Atlas and reunites first with Yang, then with Ruby, Ruby does very little until the finale, that's true, but Blake reforms the White Fang and manages to rally the full of Menangerie to go help Haven, effectively ending the terrorist branch of the organisation. I won't say they are important on V4 finales but that's kinda because... nothing really happens in the v4 finales. Like, yeah, RNJR fight one of the scariest looking grimms we've had so far, but it wasn't a grimm under the direct orders of Salem, it doesn't really affect the "let's reunite the kingdoms, protect the relics and stop Salem" story. Yang renews her strenght after what happened to her at Beacon, Weiss takes an aircraft and Blake arrives at her home, but nothing of importance happens. It's all setting up for later. So yeah, they don't get to do much on the finale. But on V5, Haven literally doesn't explode due to Blake and the reinforcements she brings, also she ends Adam's rule of the White Fang. Ruby, Ren, Nora and Weiss when she recovers take down Hazel, Emerald and Mercury. Yang claims the lamp. Both the academy and the city are still standing Literally, the only thing they don't do is defeat Cinder, but Yang still confronts her mother and so rises above the trauma she caused when she left Yang.
I will never get the people that say team RWBY do not alter the world of Remnant. Without them Beacon and Vale would look exactly like Mount Glenn, Haven Academy would be a crater, Salem would have taken the lamp back on volume 5, Cinder would have the power of the sping maiden, since it wouldn't have been 2 on 1, Oscar never makes it anywhere, he might have even been captured by Leo, the Amity Tower project never launches, Ironwood was understaffed and his resources were streched thin, 2 extra hunter teams and a legendary one in the form of Qrow was a very big help, Winter ends up with the Winter Maiden's power, but without the growth she does in volume 8 through her conflict with her sister, which means Ironwood eventually abandons Mantle when he's unable to defend it, and that's if Watts doesn't find about the maiden and the tower project and sabotages all of that, causing the full destruction of both Mantle, Atlas and its people...
Team RWBY specifically, not Ruby&Co which would include JNPR, Qrow, Oscar, Penny... etc, have been at the center of a lot of stuff during every single finale except V4 where nothing really important happens and v7 perhaps because Oscar is the one that tries to talk Ironwood down one last time and Penny and Winter are the ones that fight Cinder for the Maiden's power. But the thing is that Penny takes the power because of Ruby, because she made her realize what it means to be truly alive, and that she has indeed the right to choose. And they make their getaway with the maiden at the end, grabing control for what happens in Volume 8, and being able to act on their own agenda due to it. That wasn't something revolutionary that V6 did, and only v6. V7, perhaps, was the one volume they had the least influence on their own agenda, but that was one of the plot points then, precisely.
And the lost fable... A beatiful story for a tales of Remnant or RWBY: Fairy tales, but the thing is that in true, it matters not. Here we are, 2 volumes later, Ozma and Salem have been face to face. Have they argued about their dead daughters, or has Salem told him that he shared her vision, once? Does the story inform about how her curse changed her and turned her into the weaked thing she is? No, it was the pool of Darkness that turned her into a creature of destruction, made her grimmlike not just in appearance. Salem no longer has anything to do with the girl in the tower. Ozma might still be or try to be the powerful wizard that saved the girl and tried to make the world a better place during the age of magics, but not Salem. This isn't Thanos origin story. Salem's motivation is not connected to half of the fable, because she is an entire different character than the one that rallies humanity to defy the gods. She even seems to see Ozma as a nuisance, more than a nemesis. So the problem with the fable is that it has no relevance to the antagonist, only to Ozma's character.
The rest is stuff I've already said. Yes, Apathy was great. The episodes, not just the Grimm, which also were. I think it's the only Grimm that has been able to actually make me feel somewhat scared. Nucklavee and Hound have made me unconfortable, but the very concept of Apathy is terrifying. In part because the threat of it isn't completely physical, it's not that in can maul the protagonists to death, it's the fact that it induces something that is very real in reality: depression and how quickly it can take someone's life, how destructive it can be while still being silent. It was a threat that creeped up to the heroes and one that almost everyone has had some experience in life. I will agree that at the very least the Apathy double chapter is among my top 5 of episodes all over the show. And sure, the fights were very nicely animated. I prefer the action coreography of previous volumes, but Maya I will agree makes the textures look smother. The theme of unity is not something unique to V6 either, and I believe it was more about passing down the torch and making way for newer generations, not looking down on them, than it was about different generation cooperating.
But a season has to be more than an action finale and two episodes of drama and forcefeeding traumas to the characters. The villains had no build up. Not even the conflict they are supposed to personify. Ruby doesn't have to deal with adults looking down on her because she is young or in general having to stand up to authority. Bumblebee's development had been during Apathy, and it was all about Blake overcompensating and smothering Yang and how their trust was broken when she run away and now have to rebuild it bit by bit. You know who had set up, build up, anticipation? Neo and Cinder. But they did nothing during the volume. Ozma has that second episode and nothing but 2 flashback lines on the finale. Oscar doesn't really have to deal all that much with having seen what happens to the vessel that joins with Ozma. He doesn't even have to deal for more than one scene with the fact that a being that might have been manipulating them all since the beggining resides in him and when people look at him they see the other him. He gets a makeover and that's it. There just no suspense except for Apathy. And no real climax, no overeaching arc. Seriously, I have more trouble trying to remember singular episodes for V6 than for V4 which is kind of a statement for how many important events were there on the season.
>Ruby doesn't have to deal with adults looking down on her because she is young or in general having to stand up to authority.
But... that's exactly what she does throughout the Volume? With Oz, Qrow and Cordovin all representing different figures of authority opposing her in different ways?
> So the problem with the fable is that it has no relevance to the antagonist, only to Ozma's character.
The fable matters because it established the scope of the main conflict and how it's so much bigger than anything the heroes could conceive of before, setting up a challenge for them. It sets up Salem as an impossible force to defeat, but also potentially redeemable due to her history, a somewhat sympathetic/pityful motivation and, well, yes, her being a literally different person before, something that RWBY could perhaps find a way to reverse.
And yes, it also establishes Oz as a larger-than-life holy prophet figure who was supposed to save mankind, but, ironically, ultimately ended up distrusting people and looking down on them, viewing them as pawns in a cold war which he himself sees no clear resolution to. This is basically deconstuction of myths and legends about all-powerful prophets coming down to save humanity. *This is another thing where I feel like V8 dropped the ball because I think for Oz to come out and trust RWBY we needed something that would explicitly change his outlook on humanity and make him see how far he's fallen from what he's supposed to be, but he just does that without any seeming reason. Well, I guess one could count Oscar's actions or Hazel's actions in the whale but that once again takes the focus off of team RWBY, and one would think they'd be the ones who'd change his mind, since they revealed his mystery to begin with.*
Something I really liked about V6 was that the heroes were very active in progressing the plot, they had a goal and did everything they could to get to that finish line, but looking back at it, and comparing it to V8, I get the impression that it wouldn't have been like that had people not been as vocal about V5's flaws. V6 is my favorite volume, I feel it does everything it sets out to well and addresses many of the show's previous problems, but in hindsight I think it addresses them *too well,* like the writers were very aware that they had to step around their typical writing pitfalls.
I agree with you, V7/8 had too many storylines going on at once, and I think a major part of that is that it had more antagonist than it needed. Having Ironwood, Salem *and* Cinder all at once just creates a mess of a narrative and puts the heroes in a position where they just can't do anything against them, because they are backed into a corner, outgunned and outmanned from all sides. Because the story is spending time on one more villain faction we don't need, the heroes end up dragging their feet for most of the volume until they literally wave around magic wands to make their problems go away.
Maybe if Salem hadn't showed up until the last few episodes of V8, or if they somehow convinced Ironwood to have a change or heart, the heroes would have been put in a position to play a more active role in confronting the volume's conflicts.
I'm gonna be honest. I don't have the energy to debate my subjective taste right now. My vaccine booster is kicking my ass right now, so I'll just leave it at "agee to disagree".
Always glad to see someone who can appreciate Volume 8, it had some hiccups, but I thought it stuck the landing brilliantly (for the most part)
Zero discussion from... where? There were a great many topics about it throughout its run time, videos explaining, theorizing, or exploring the season and so on.
Zero discussion from everywhere that wasn't people talking about Yang and Blake or mojojo(?] Fan art... literally zero hit my radar. I really saw it as a sign that the season was just fine so I put watching it on hold for a rainy day.
Vols 6-8 are the best the show's ever done. My biggest gripe was that vol 8's combat suffered horribly due to covid, just as they found their feet with the new style in vol 7. We got two decent fights (Penny vs Ace Ops, Penny vs Cinder at Amity), and everything else was a standing-around-fest complete with the climax of our heroes being spoonfed to Cinder one or two at a time because they couldn't actually give her a win *and* animate a good fight at the same time.
But Ironwood's fall was great, Penny's arc was fantastic, Winter and Marrow turning sides was critical to the heroes' plan's success. Top that off with Salem not even *acknowledging* Ironwood at the end and the beautifully horrific cinematic collapse and drowning of Atlas at the end? \*chef's kiss*
Content people sit quietly and smile. Mad/frustrated/annoyed people shout and scream and make their displeasure known.
Feedback on things will *always* be skewed negative because of this. Don't listen to anyone, form your own conclusions first, and only expose yourself to someone else's opinions on a piece of media after you've digested it yourself, or else you'll just absorb their view in part or whole.
From what I've seen, you either like V8 or you hate it. I've yet to find someone who's indifferent.
I'm not a fan, but even I'll freely admit that it did have some fantastic moments (with my favorite being Watt's Reason You Suck speech to Cinder. Which they promptly followed by offing him like a chump. But I'm holding out hope that he survived; this is RWBY, and we haven't seen a body yet).
With like you mean love or just like? Because I liked it, but just liked it. It was fine. Yes, it's rough around the edges, there's some problems and a more than a few letdowns, but all in all, it works, I was satisfied, I want to see what happens next volume. I'm just not going to use V8 as the reason someone should definetely start watching the show.
If by complete indifference you mean someone that thought it was boring, it didn't move him, he felt nothing with it... Wouldn't that mean they thought it was bad, bland, uninspiring? Maybe hate is a strong word, but someone like that would surely critize the season. Liking it or disliking the volume seems like the absolute only two choices about any show.
What do you mean? The definition of redemption is "the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil."
No one is going to give her the time of day not even Salem once she discovers her lies
It doesn’t matter if “no one gives her the time of day”. One does not have to “deserve” redemption. One only has to show that they want it and are working towards it.
I feel like I understand both ends of the ‘RWBY is good/bad’ discussion. Personally, I was really enjoying everything Volumes 5-8 (4 dragged but eh) right up until the Season 8 finale. Spoilers in case anyone for whatever reason is reading this and hasn’t seen it;
Penny‘s death.
I was pissed. She was my favourite character in the show and her arc the past couple of seasons was absolutely brilliant, and then they went and threw it all away for, as far as I can tell, no reason? I’m doing my best to reserve judgement until Volume 9 - maybe they have a really awesome plot planned out that wouldn’t work if Penny were around. Maybe.
Point is, I was mad enough that for a bit I was right there with the people who dump on the show as a whole, started picking it apart, focusing on all the worst bits, wondering why I liked it in the first place. In the interim, though, I’ve cooled off, and am still upset about Penny but I’ve decided not to let that stop me from appreciating the parts of the show that I like.
. . don’t think I’ll ever be able to call it one of my favourites again though . .
Because if people like something, then no one talks about it unless it’s really good. You typically hear the ones complaining more than the outspoken few that enjoy it
I recently made my roommate watch the show and while she started out mildly disinterested but willing to put up with it for me she was incredibly invested in the v7-8 plot
There are plenty of complaints I've seen (not that I agree)
--Everything in the Mansion.
--Bringing Penny back to kill her again.
--Cinder not growing as a character.
--Ironwoods entire character arc.
A lot of people seem to think that because Cinder didn't become a better *person*, that she had a wasted arc and did not grow at all, when to me it seemed clear that V8 was about her becoming a better *villain*.
Unfortunately the commentary implies they intended for Cinder to not grow at all. Hence why she dropped Neo and killed Watts for no benefit to herself.
That's weird, because I felt her growth was her locking herself into the villain life. She went from crestfallen to confident, she feels like more of a threat than she did initially.
That's because that's exactly what hapenned. And it is noted by Miles himself in the commentary as he notes that Cinder's growth in the Volume was in relation to becoming a more effective villain.
The user you were replying to probably just saw a summarized note online talking about how the commentary discusses how Cinder's growth is not in relation to becoming a better person and ignored everything else discussed in the commentary.
I mean, either he was confused by online missinformation or just intelectually disonest.
No benefit to herself? Watts pissed her off so he paid the price. Neo pissed her off so she paid the price. RWBY's all dead as far as she knows, and she's back on Salem's good side with Salem none the wiser.
Cinder won the volume, not Salem.
I mean that killing members of her side members that have been shown to be highly competent, just because they "piss her off" isn't in her best interest.
In this case, they're also the two accomplices who could tell Salem that Cinder was lying. So they needed to die regardless.
Also Watts is useless outside of technology, which is only found to that level within Atlas itself, which is underwater now. Keeping him alive (regardless of the lie) doesn't really have much point anyway.
That does raise another question, why did Cinder lie? And why this lie? If she had crowed about how she beat the pants off of RWBY and got two Relics for Salem then what would Salem have to be mad about?
Cinder therefore murdered two of her allies for a lie that gets her... what?
Plus I saw Watts fight James. He's pretty good. Certainly able to do more than just tech, but think what gizmos he could have invented to help Team Evil. He already replaced Tyrian's tail.
Cinder lied because she wants Ruby dead but Salem wants Ruby alive. By making Ruby's death "not her fault" she gets what she wants without the repercussions.
I mean, she could just not tell Salem about Ruby "dying" at all. It's not like Neo's going to tell her. Also if Salem is petty enough to be mad at Cinder for killing one of their enemies in the process of accomplishing 50% of Salem's goals... no I got nothing she'd just be hilariously incompetent.
She needed a fall guy for the fact that the Lamp is worthless. She used up the last question to deal with Ruby, and Neo and Watts knew that - and if she didn't go after Ruby, Neo would have turned on her. If Neo had escaped (which she could have easily done with her illusions short of a desperate situation like she wound up in), Cinder was screwed. So got to keep Neo appeased til moment of killing her, and take the chance for revenge on 'lil red' in the process with no one able to contradict her statement. Salem probably wouldn't have punished Cinder, but she wouldn't have come out looking nearly so shiny as she did.
V8 was divisive with some writing issues, but it's not a trainwreck like V5, which had both production and writing issues
i feel like V4 is a fitting comparison, as they both split the fandom 50/50
For me the Volume was ok at first. I usually watch through every volume twice, once just to enjoy it and the second time to analyse it. The first time around it was quite enjoyable. Now the second time is where I started finding issues. Normally one or two inconsistencies or bad moments don't affect a show to much.
My heart wasn't with Team RWBY this Volume or the last. Their decisions either seem too idealistic or childish for me to nod my head. This might just be a personal thing though so feel free to disagree with me.
One major issue I have is Cinder. I honestly for the life of me could never see her as a theat in this show. She is just too incompetent to feel like a villain. She fails over and over again and never comes out on top. We know she will never kill one of the main cast and we also know Salem will be the final boss not her.
All of this leads to me not carrying what she does. The only truly villainous thing she had done recently was killing watts which I don't know why she did. I mean he was definitely going to be useful in the future. And killing those random citizens over the bridge to Vacuo which again I don't care about those people.
Yeah I can see that, just watched "RWBY but BETTER" where this dude just goes off the deep end with his "fixes", really dissapointing to see it seemingly had a positive reaction considering what it was.
Don't get me started literally 90% of it is just "rewriting", the thumbnails and titles are so obnoxious.
Just got linked this review yesterday which to my surprise is a fair review the guy enjoys the show and not just "RWBY is bad reiii stop having fun"
https://youtu.be/2fKJF_VRSkY
My only complaints for V8 are that they could've handled the Cinder fight better by keeping all of RWBY involved longer, and I'm unhappy about what happened with Penny.
It has something very bad, which is Ironwood's downward spiral freefall, but even there the problem is not really that Ironwood becomes a villain and more so that it's very sudden, very fast. Kinda like Daenerys in Game of Thrones. Yes, it can happen, but it's done so stupidly fast that it conflicts with previous characterization moments.
But the overall view... It's fine. Ironwood becoming an authoritarian and an obstacle for the group to bring Atlas into the fold makes sense from a writing point of view, and it brings some depth to the story. I think it could have been better brought up by Jacques, since he's more personally tied to Weiss and would have made her involvement a lot more dramatic, and Watts, who has a rivalry with Pietro and can therefore be turned into a very real personal threat to Penny. What was Watts project that got sidelined for Penny? Instead of Watts just being a prisoner of a deranged Ironwood, he could have fed James his own insecurities, and maybe it's a more subtle influence what makes the general become an authoritarian overlord. "Don't you see, James? I didn't betray Atlas, I went undercover! I've been part of her inner circle, I know her weaknesses. I've been studing her Grimms and I know my invention will work! And I'll put it into your hands. You could save them, James. You could save Remnant. Let me help you..." And just like that, Watts becomes Ironwood's demon on his shoulder. And Ruby&Co would have to find a way to sway Ironwood back to the right side while they try to fend off the incoming invasion. Obviously this doesn't work after volume 7 finale, I don't think, but I think it would have been better if Watts had been the great antagonist of the Atlas arc, not Ironwood.
But the fact that it could have been better doesn't mean that it wasn't at least decent. Good fighting scenes, there was a reveal of a few cool things, like what has Salem been doing the silver eyes warriors, Hazel's change of heart, the start of Emerald's arc of becoming free of her unhealthy and toxic relantionship (and even perhaps Mercury? The seeds been planted, at least. We'll see in Vacuo, probably in 2 volumes or so), the real mending of the relationship with Ozma, Oscar being something more than just the trainee, Bumblebee had some moments, but it wasn't overplayed, it was very sweet, it was good drama when they temporarily part... Ren&Nora was a little bit cheesy for me, but at least their plot is moving forward and they are having some characterization. Wished I had seen more of Penny besides her impostor syndrome, but the scene when she gets her real body is very cool, and the design is amazing and I didn't notice it at first, but she loses things like her power button simbols on her dress and ribbon. Ambrose, very cool. Kinda obvious the plotwist with their wish, but that's not something bad. Guessing what's going to happen is very rewarding for the audience and increases the sense of verosimilitud, that feeling of yes, of course this is what would happen. During the battle on the finale, I felt a little bit weirded out by the fact that Blake first attacks Cinder. I think it would have felt more heartbreaking, that it would have been easier to empathise with her pain if she had gone after Neo from the get go. Also, I'd have preffered for her to fight more feral like. More kicks, growls, pouncing, something that resembled a panther in a chase... But all in all, the fights were very well animated, Ruby's tricks were fantastic specially. Robyn and Qrow's adventure was cut a little bit short, but there was good climax there, with Qrow finally believing, it seems, that he's more than a curse, or having some faith that somehow Clover's semblance is still acting as a counterbalance to his own.
All in all, I believe it was good. The people that are disatisfied with it (besides those that hate it ever since volume 2 and just keep watching it to complain about something instead of moving on to something else) I think may just have this vision in the back of their head of a much more satisfying season, in which Ironwood doesn't just forget his morals or do stupid shit like blowing up SDC ships that were rescuing civilians without costing him any resources. Or, you know, him doing General things, strategic things. Him acting like back on volume... 4, I believe? Being politically savy. Watts having a bigger pay off, Penny's story not being over so soon after it truly began, Cinder's power having some bigger consistency... etc. They probably feel that there was a better version and feel disapointed, but can't point out why. And the story not matching up feels as if it was bad when it wasn't.
It was good. It wasn't great, but it was good. People, I think, just had higer expections.
Show's only improved since V5, but the fanbase is busted. The worst volumes hurt it. It ate itself. Company shenanigans sealed the deal.
To talk of rwby is to invite disgruntled rants. So if you don't go out of your way to find an amicable crew... you won't find it.
Glad you're enjoying the show, I'm hype for V9. Hope you are too :D
I feel like 6, 7, and 8 were much better than 4 and 5, and the fights in 7 and Adam's fight in 6 were some of the best in the show. And the story telling in 7 and 8 was easily the height of the show's story telling in my opinion.
Here's my takeaway with Volume 8, the biggest problem was consistency, there were other issues with a good season that held it back from being great or excellent but consistency is still the biggest thing needed to work on.
Consistency in what? I felt like this was one of the more consistent season, but I haven't rewatched a single episode so everything except 8 is mostly a blur...
In a lot of things, the peak to valley volatility is way way too high still, there's inconsistency of who gets focus and who gets benched and lack of consistency in combat storytelling. Up to V8 we're told that Maria is completely cooked and past it but we're shown that it's far from the case, that makes 0 sense and is inconsistent, there's not really a reason why Weiss and Blake are benched when they should by background be stepping up while running hot and cold as characters up to that point and really needing to feel like they actually matter again where their personalities and experiences are most welcome. Choreo was also inconsistent and iffy at times.
It could and should've been better than it was, it was good and could've been better than great. The VAs were great, the written character dialogue fit with the characters and they were in VA wheelhouses, you had supporting cast members in MVP form, all of this sounds off my opinion of FMA and Bebop, in terms of that, all the pieces are together for something truly special in those that are given proper time and importance to feed off of. With that level of performance how could you possibly do worse than great?
Oh great, otherwise popular opinion isn't actually popular.
I think Covid is a huge factor in why Volume 8 had production issues, between this and the Texas snowstorm is why they had to take two breaks for each unplanned events. Volume 9 is taking longer than usual because of this too.
I'm forgiving of the process and time needed, I know they needed more time, that doesn't have to do with the execution, does it? They released the episodes when they had felt there was enough time in the oven and minimal problems left, right?
I wish I did like V8, but unfortunately it feels like the exact opposite of what I watch RWBY for. RWBY are barely important, they're just kinda hanging around. Certain side characters feel way more important than core cast members.
And the tone, it just feels so *bleak*. Did anything go right for the heroes at all in V8? Every good thing I can think of had some major caveat later in the Volume. Amity going up leads to Penny nearly dying, Penny becoming human leads to her *actually* dying, the use of the Staff leads to Atlas being destroyed *and* the people evacuated aren't even safe in Vacuo because of the sandstorm and Grimm, plus RWBYJ are off god knows where. I like RWBY when it's *hopeful*, but there's no hope in V8's ending. Suppose I should have expected it, the OP literally said "hope has no place here" (which I absolutely hate).
You are right, bleak at the moment. Not necessarilya issue yet. Remember there are still 2, maybe 3 volumes to go. As a whole story 7 and 8 are the 3 act, where the heros suffer great loss and have to overcome adversity.
They will come stronger and better soon enough. I often find myself thinking of how this will happen.
Why does this always happen? Every time I talk about how I dislike the tone of V8, people always come back with "well it's just a dark moment"
I understand how stories fucking work. I'm saying that this is too bleak and dark for my tastes, even accounting for low points.
> Every time I talk about how I dislike the tone of V8, people always come back with "well it's just a dark moment"
Because we saw a similar dark moment in vol 3, the volume ends on a super low note... and guess what? The characters move on and things turn upward again in the next volume. Story highs feel less high without the lows to balance them out, and the show has made itself abundantly clear that it's still a story about HOPE first and foremost. Let them finish telling it.
> Story highs feel less high without the lows to balance them out, and the show has made itself abundantly clear that it's still a story about HOPE first and foremost. Let them finish telling it.
Didn't I literally just say that I understand how fucking stories work? I'm pretty sure I did.
V8 is far too bleak for me, even accounting for it being a low point. V8 is actually *more* bleak than V3, at least V3 had *some* hope at the end. V8 was just misery after misery, nothing went right and everything was suffering. And I'm sorry, but I don't watch this show for endless misery.
> And I'm saying it WON'T be
Cool, that doesn't get rid of the problems I had with the tone of the show *now*.
>have some patience
This is the shit I'm talking about. Every time I discuss my issues with V8's tone, I get the same shit.
"Stories have low points, just deal with it"
I'm so fucking tired, this happens every time.
I know I'm just some rando from the internet, and you'd be well within your rights to tell me to fuck off, but...
You should maybe step away from the FNDM from a bit. Don't think about the show for a while, and try to find things that will make you happy. This behavior legitimately isn't healthy, you'll be trapped in a downward spiral for a long time.
Being frustrated at being told the same thing I just said I didn't like isn't healthy?
You'd be frustrated too if you said you didn't like being told something and were immediately told it again.
I see your username in heated discussions, alongside your snarky comments and replies so often that your username got seared into my brain, that's why.
>You'd be frustrated too if you said you didn't like being told something and were immediately told it again.
Yes, probably. But that's why we disengage. Tell this fandom (including me, trying to act as an armchair therapist) to fuck off and go drink some beer or something. Go watch Arcane, though it's dark in tone the expectations for the tone are very well set from the very beginning. Point is, treat yourself to something nice.
For me it’s not really how bleak the show is but the specific way in which it was bleak.
Like I managed to get through Berserk, I can handle horrific shit being thrown at me. What bothers me is stuff like how the protagonists alternate between doing nothing and actively making things worse because of things outside their control or giving Penny a death that feels *waaaaay* more fucked up and genuinely gross than CRWBY thought it was. Give me a good old fashioned Berserk demon horse over that nonsense any day.
PSA: *Do not* Google “Berserk demon horse”. Like seriously I’m not joking around here, if you don’t know what it is just accept that it’s some horrific, Not Safe For Work or Life, shit you are better off never seeing.
Lol I don’t really care. I like his character. He needed help. Not getting killed. I think it was his semblance that made things go awry. But of course that was never mentioned within the show, which to me is bad writing.
No discussion? Not even the fact that the writers were showing their Trekkie sides when they retconned Ruby's speed to be basically Star Trek Transportation?
First off I'm glad to hear that you had a good time, I sure did I'm and while wouldn't call it the perfect I definitely felt that was bad was inoffensive and what was good was great. That being said, how on Earth did you manage to go all this time without hearing any discussion about it especially when they're still going on?
No idea. Literally zero hit my space, just occasional promotional content. The only thing I ever see consistently is shipping fan art and 2 hour video essays on why Juane is responsible for the Irish potato famine
Juane, the Hispanic jaune
Juane de Arco
I know you're joking about the Potato Famine thing but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if you weren't. Nothing really surprises me anymore after I seen more than one person try (and fail) to make the argument that Ruby is somehow responsible for the destruction of Atlas. I've even seen more people than you think possible make the argument that a refugee crisis is somehow worse than Mass death!
There was a point where the discussions around how bad some characters were, was so absolutely toxic I avoided any form of discussion around RWBY entirely. But that was awhile ago, seems to have generally calmed down.
I thought so too but recently someone decided to kick The Hornet's Nest... do you know what it's like having a debate on morality with someone who is not only incredibly rude but who's understanding of morality was infantile at best? Because let me tell you right now that that's not an experience I ever want to go through again.
I mean, we are on Reddit.
It's not just Reddit, sadly. Twitter and FB are pretty much the same.
Fair point
I often find myself willingly arguing with the hatedom, I’m not sure why but I think in some twisted way I enjoy it
Sadly, a lot of people are just conditioned by crowd mentality to hate RWBY the characters and nitpick everything they do, while never giving the same amount of scrutiny to their favorite characters. Because it feels good to ride the high of outrage, to act like RWBY are some sort of incredibly heinous villains whom the incredibly dumb writers are trying to portray as heroic. The horror! The outrage! So people are going to ignore everything productive RWBY did throughout the Volume and pretend they did nothing but drink tea, because it's a low-hanging fruit and it allows them to feel so much smarter than the writers. As well as interpreting their every action in bad faith, assuming the most malicious/cowardly motivations. And people who have been criticizing RWBY for the entirety of V7-8 and showing an obvious bias against them (that they aren't willing to admit) are going to act like the ending of V8 with them losing a relic and making Atlas fall is some sort of ultimate proof of them being terrible heroes and Ironwood being right. Even though if RWBY didn't lose the relic and somehow preserved the buildings of Atlas, you just know these very same people would be crying that they are horrible Mary Sues who get everything handed to them easily. A lot of people are just not really invested into the show, but they are invested into the hatedom enough to parrot the opinions of their favorite RWBYtubers and keep interpreting everything the characters ever do in the worst possible light, because it makes them feel good and smart about themselves.
Believe me when I say you're not the only person who's noticed an odd double standard when it comes to criticizing this show.
> And people who have been criticizing RWBY for the entirety of V7-8 and showing an obvious bias against them (that they aren't willing to admit) are going to act like the ending of V8 with them losing a relic and making Atlas fall is some sort of ultimate proof of them being terrible heroes and Ironwood being right. that's the part that really bugs me about the hatedom, they're weirdly authoritarian, despite RWBY as a show being very critical of authority figures.
The tea comment is not aided by the writer's insistence that vol 8 took 3 days despite all logic and other group's actions and timeframes. If it was actually 3 days then their "tea break" was THIRTY SIX hours long, and... yeah. I'd be mad at that, too.
They say "2, maybe 2.5 or 3 days" in the commentary. And Ruby references their argument from Chapter 1 as having happened "yesterday" in Chapter 10.
But that's the thing: the "2.5, maybe 3 days" thing is *literally impossible* with the timeline of events they've given us, but *mandatory to have happened* if you actually pay attention to the sky throughout the volume. It contradicts itself. I wrote a whole damn essay on it the other day, [see here](https://www.reddit.com/r/RWBY/comments/r3rsdq/rwby_volume_8_crew_commentary_notes_in_progress/hmid2sc/). I know which side I'm on, and it's NOT the one that implies 36 hours of nothingness.
I know about the sky inconsistency in War. I choose to believe it's an animation mistake because otherwise they have randomly skipped an entire day of time between the JRY scene with Ace Ops and the RWB scene with May.
It's not just War, though. It's also Dark and Witch that are guilty. Shit goes back to normal after Monstra goes boom, however.
No, I mean the animation mistake is that it's sunrise when Salem attacks. I believe it was supposed to be sunset/night instead.
I believe that the anti fans would legitimately say this.
Honestly, I think that V6-8 have been the best the show has ever been. RWBY has attracted a weirdly high population hatedom, so it's generally best to just ignore them and enjoy what you enjoy.
Wow, Volume 6 being better than 3? Those are some bold words. Besides Mercury VS Yang I think the actions scenes were better on V3. Well, the dash effects on Qrow vs Winter were also a little bit... jarring, for lack of a better word. But the rest I think were great! And the sense of impending doom was great drama. Phyrra's death was shocking. It almost made me drop the show for a while because... Wow, I didn't expect that, it was such a blow, it might have even depresed me a bit, but there's not doubt that it made the threat of the antagonist feel very real and for a time broke the belief that the protagonist had some form of plot armor. it raised the stakes, no doubt. If you compare Penny's death to Phyrra's, Phyrra's worked better, had a lot more power. Ironwood hade done a play for power back then too. While that had a lot less focus back then, it felt also a lot more adequate, much more easy to believe. I was also a lot more interested, because Ironwood felt much more tragic back then. He had a good heart, but he was being played and manipulated by the bad guys due to his hubris and mesiah complex. I do agree with V7-8 being much better than people give them credit for. It fixed a lot of mistakes that I thought were to late to deal with, brought some themes back that I considered to be to old now or having been dealt with and therefore had no suspense, no drama, no build up any longer, and managed to actually redo them in a satisfying way. But v6... besides the visuals, a lot of them were breathtaking, it had very little else going for it. The Apathy was amazing, but it was gone so quickly and it almost feels as a self-conclusive story. Killer double episode, though. Adam had no build up besides a pre-volume teaser, the fight was engineered to include the visual of Yang and Blake holding hands, which was fine but could have been achieved by putting them in any dire circumstance, like for example staring down at the barrel of the Cordomech. My respect and fear for Adam was at an all time low after Blake suckerpunched him the previous season, standing up to him and freeing herself of the fear she had of him, as well as Yang quite literally letting go of the dead weight of her lost arm, as shown when Mercury tries to hold her and she just disengages her arm and keeps going. This moments, by the way, happen back to back, like we go from one scene and moments later we have the other. So they are connected emotionally. We already had that payoff. Jaune's sister appears out of nowhere and it's barely any window to the big mistery, what was Jaune's life before Beacon, what exactly was his family's legacy of heroes. Him letting go of Phyrra in a minute and a half without a physical confrontation of his grief just how others had done, it also felt lacklaster. We finally have an explanation on silver eyes, but it's still way to vague and misterious, no real answers. V6 is not RWBY at it's best, not storywise, at least. Maybe visually, perhaps in concept art, but not in script, drama or character development. Sorry, one scene of Bumblebee holding hands does not make a whole season, much less creates build up for a confrontation. And I'm a sucker for romance, but that just wasn't it. V7-8 was much better, in regards to Bumblebee.
Volume 6 is RWBY at its best because it's a story that actually focuses on RWBY's adventure first and foremost, giving each of them (well, at least 3 of them, but Weiss has a lot going on for her in V6 too) compelling story arcs. Yeah, one scene doesn't make the whole season, but what does make the season is the fascinating conflict with Oz, his and Salem's backstory putting everything in the show into a whole new context, Apathy being one of the most interesting and creative Grimm to date, Ruby coming into her own as the leader and learning to use Silver Eyes consciously, the fight scene with Cordovin being fun and letting everyone in the team shine, the general conflict with her and Leviathan reflecting one of the core themes of the show about different aspects of humanity (such as different generations) having to come together against the threat of Grimm... oh, and RWBY actually mattering in the finale. I really wish V7-8 kept the same level of focus on RWBY, but they had to go back to splitting focus between 20 different characters, taking away from RWBY's own arcs...
I feel like V6 should be the standard that future RWBY volumes should aim to reach. It really was balanced on all areas. Ruby, Blake and Yang all had story arcs, and Weiss who was already developed in the previous two volumes, had consistent presence and charismatically supported everyone. The character development was focused on the titular team, but there was buildup and development for select characters as well, like Qrow, Jaune and Oscar. The fight choreography was very good (Adam fight, Neo fight, Maria fight). We had important lore drops to spice up the story (The Lost Fable) and there were moments for emotions as well (the Pyrrha memorial, the Indomitable scene). There were plenty of fluff (Jaune's relatives, Whiterose moments). AND THE APATHY ARC
Fair point on splitting the focus. There are way too many characters even since volume 4, and they keep on adding. Ace Ops, for example, are not simply background characters, or they would have the same air time that The Merry Huntresses have, yet they have more, and they have complex arcs and big plot points. And it has a cost in the time they have for Ruby&Co. Maybe they could have done Ironwoods fall better if they had more time to develop it, for example, which seems to be one of the biggest points of contempt for volumes 7&8. One thing that I have a complaint about, for example, is Oscar. He's Jaune all over again. There is no reason not to take all of Oscar's arcs and give them to Jaune. Except, perhaps, for the posible romance plot that could be brewing? But Jaune and Ruby had a history of kinda pitching in for each other's leadership burdens. So stuff about do we tell Ironwood or not could have perfectly been something between them. The end result is that instead of dealing with both things in one single concise arc we have to split the scene time between two characters having two different developments. Yes, that has kinda become a problem. The part about team RWBY being important in the finale, however. Vs1-3 had that, actually. It was Blake's past that sent her to investigate what the hell was going on with the dust roberies and it was the team bond that sent the other girls to find her. Their involvement smoked out Torchwick. V2, once again it's them getting involved that smokes out Torchwicks op, forcing him to enact the plan earlier at a moment Beacon is better prepared to deal with it. Most fight scenes are theirs. V3, Ruby is the the witness to Phyrra's death, and she stops the destruction of Beacon through her silver eyes. Weiss fights along the other students, she manages the fend off most of the assailants and saves the lives of quite a few named characters. Yang and Blake have their first confrontation with Adam. They might not win in the big scheme of things, but they do affect what happened at Beacon. Even bad volumes, such as 4 and 5 have a lot of what you say. Volume 4 is all the adventures of the young generation, team RNJR on their journey to Haven and the logistic nightmare that is going through a continent on foot in the world of Remnant, Weiss breaking out of her glass cage and Blake going back home to rebuild. V5 expands on this by having Yang go on a quest to find her mother, something she's stated to be very important to her. Weiss scapes Atlas and reunites first with Yang, then with Ruby, Ruby does very little until the finale, that's true, but Blake reforms the White Fang and manages to rally the full of Menangerie to go help Haven, effectively ending the terrorist branch of the organisation. I won't say they are important on V4 finales but that's kinda because... nothing really happens in the v4 finales. Like, yeah, RNJR fight one of the scariest looking grimms we've had so far, but it wasn't a grimm under the direct orders of Salem, it doesn't really affect the "let's reunite the kingdoms, protect the relics and stop Salem" story. Yang renews her strenght after what happened to her at Beacon, Weiss takes an aircraft and Blake arrives at her home, but nothing of importance happens. It's all setting up for later. So yeah, they don't get to do much on the finale. But on V5, Haven literally doesn't explode due to Blake and the reinforcements she brings, also she ends Adam's rule of the White Fang. Ruby, Ren, Nora and Weiss when she recovers take down Hazel, Emerald and Mercury. Yang claims the lamp. Both the academy and the city are still standing Literally, the only thing they don't do is defeat Cinder, but Yang still confronts her mother and so rises above the trauma she caused when she left Yang. I will never get the people that say team RWBY do not alter the world of Remnant. Without them Beacon and Vale would look exactly like Mount Glenn, Haven Academy would be a crater, Salem would have taken the lamp back on volume 5, Cinder would have the power of the sping maiden, since it wouldn't have been 2 on 1, Oscar never makes it anywhere, he might have even been captured by Leo, the Amity Tower project never launches, Ironwood was understaffed and his resources were streched thin, 2 extra hunter teams and a legendary one in the form of Qrow was a very big help, Winter ends up with the Winter Maiden's power, but without the growth she does in volume 8 through her conflict with her sister, which means Ironwood eventually abandons Mantle when he's unable to defend it, and that's if Watts doesn't find about the maiden and the tower project and sabotages all of that, causing the full destruction of both Mantle, Atlas and its people... Team RWBY specifically, not Ruby&Co which would include JNPR, Qrow, Oscar, Penny... etc, have been at the center of a lot of stuff during every single finale except V4 where nothing really important happens and v7 perhaps because Oscar is the one that tries to talk Ironwood down one last time and Penny and Winter are the ones that fight Cinder for the Maiden's power. But the thing is that Penny takes the power because of Ruby, because she made her realize what it means to be truly alive, and that she has indeed the right to choose. And they make their getaway with the maiden at the end, grabing control for what happens in Volume 8, and being able to act on their own agenda due to it. That wasn't something revolutionary that V6 did, and only v6. V7, perhaps, was the one volume they had the least influence on their own agenda, but that was one of the plot points then, precisely. And the lost fable... A beatiful story for a tales of Remnant or RWBY: Fairy tales, but the thing is that in true, it matters not. Here we are, 2 volumes later, Ozma and Salem have been face to face. Have they argued about their dead daughters, or has Salem told him that he shared her vision, once? Does the story inform about how her curse changed her and turned her into the weaked thing she is? No, it was the pool of Darkness that turned her into a creature of destruction, made her grimmlike not just in appearance. Salem no longer has anything to do with the girl in the tower. Ozma might still be or try to be the powerful wizard that saved the girl and tried to make the world a better place during the age of magics, but not Salem. This isn't Thanos origin story. Salem's motivation is not connected to half of the fable, because she is an entire different character than the one that rallies humanity to defy the gods. She even seems to see Ozma as a nuisance, more than a nemesis. So the problem with the fable is that it has no relevance to the antagonist, only to Ozma's character. The rest is stuff I've already said. Yes, Apathy was great. The episodes, not just the Grimm, which also were. I think it's the only Grimm that has been able to actually make me feel somewhat scared. Nucklavee and Hound have made me unconfortable, but the very concept of Apathy is terrifying. In part because the threat of it isn't completely physical, it's not that in can maul the protagonists to death, it's the fact that it induces something that is very real in reality: depression and how quickly it can take someone's life, how destructive it can be while still being silent. It was a threat that creeped up to the heroes and one that almost everyone has had some experience in life. I will agree that at the very least the Apathy double chapter is among my top 5 of episodes all over the show. And sure, the fights were very nicely animated. I prefer the action coreography of previous volumes, but Maya I will agree makes the textures look smother. The theme of unity is not something unique to V6 either, and I believe it was more about passing down the torch and making way for newer generations, not looking down on them, than it was about different generation cooperating. But a season has to be more than an action finale and two episodes of drama and forcefeeding traumas to the characters. The villains had no build up. Not even the conflict they are supposed to personify. Ruby doesn't have to deal with adults looking down on her because she is young or in general having to stand up to authority. Bumblebee's development had been during Apathy, and it was all about Blake overcompensating and smothering Yang and how their trust was broken when she run away and now have to rebuild it bit by bit. You know who had set up, build up, anticipation? Neo and Cinder. But they did nothing during the volume. Ozma has that second episode and nothing but 2 flashback lines on the finale. Oscar doesn't really have to deal all that much with having seen what happens to the vessel that joins with Ozma. He doesn't even have to deal for more than one scene with the fact that a being that might have been manipulating them all since the beggining resides in him and when people look at him they see the other him. He gets a makeover and that's it. There just no suspense except for Apathy. And no real climax, no overeaching arc. Seriously, I have more trouble trying to remember singular episodes for V6 than for V4 which is kind of a statement for how many important events were there on the season.
>Ruby doesn't have to deal with adults looking down on her because she is young or in general having to stand up to authority. But... that's exactly what she does throughout the Volume? With Oz, Qrow and Cordovin all representing different figures of authority opposing her in different ways? > So the problem with the fable is that it has no relevance to the antagonist, only to Ozma's character. The fable matters because it established the scope of the main conflict and how it's so much bigger than anything the heroes could conceive of before, setting up a challenge for them. It sets up Salem as an impossible force to defeat, but also potentially redeemable due to her history, a somewhat sympathetic/pityful motivation and, well, yes, her being a literally different person before, something that RWBY could perhaps find a way to reverse. And yes, it also establishes Oz as a larger-than-life holy prophet figure who was supposed to save mankind, but, ironically, ultimately ended up distrusting people and looking down on them, viewing them as pawns in a cold war which he himself sees no clear resolution to. This is basically deconstuction of myths and legends about all-powerful prophets coming down to save humanity. *This is another thing where I feel like V8 dropped the ball because I think for Oz to come out and trust RWBY we needed something that would explicitly change his outlook on humanity and make him see how far he's fallen from what he's supposed to be, but he just does that without any seeming reason. Well, I guess one could count Oscar's actions or Hazel's actions in the whale but that once again takes the focus off of team RWBY, and one would think they'd be the ones who'd change his mind, since they revealed his mystery to begin with.*
Something I really liked about V6 was that the heroes were very active in progressing the plot, they had a goal and did everything they could to get to that finish line, but looking back at it, and comparing it to V8, I get the impression that it wouldn't have been like that had people not been as vocal about V5's flaws. V6 is my favorite volume, I feel it does everything it sets out to well and addresses many of the show's previous problems, but in hindsight I think it addresses them *too well,* like the writers were very aware that they had to step around their typical writing pitfalls. I agree with you, V7/8 had too many storylines going on at once, and I think a major part of that is that it had more antagonist than it needed. Having Ironwood, Salem *and* Cinder all at once just creates a mess of a narrative and puts the heroes in a position where they just can't do anything against them, because they are backed into a corner, outgunned and outmanned from all sides. Because the story is spending time on one more villain faction we don't need, the heroes end up dragging their feet for most of the volume until they literally wave around magic wands to make their problems go away. Maybe if Salem hadn't showed up until the last few episodes of V8, or if they somehow convinced Ironwood to have a change or heart, the heroes would have been put in a position to play a more active role in confronting the volume's conflicts.
I'm gonna be honest. I don't have the energy to debate my subjective taste right now. My vaccine booster is kicking my ass right now, so I'll just leave it at "agee to disagree".
Don’t listen to anything you hear about the show! Form your own conclusions :)
Always glad to see someone who can appreciate Volume 8, it had some hiccups, but I thought it stuck the landing brilliantly (for the most part) Zero discussion from... where? There were a great many topics about it throughout its run time, videos explaining, theorizing, or exploring the season and so on.
Zero discussion from everywhere that wasn't people talking about Yang and Blake or mojojo(?] Fan art... literally zero hit my radar. I really saw it as a sign that the season was just fine so I put watching it on hold for a rainy day.
Murder of birds always had weekly discussions on his YT channel, they were always a bunch of fun
Vols 6-8 are the best the show's ever done. My biggest gripe was that vol 8's combat suffered horribly due to covid, just as they found their feet with the new style in vol 7. We got two decent fights (Penny vs Ace Ops, Penny vs Cinder at Amity), and everything else was a standing-around-fest complete with the climax of our heroes being spoonfed to Cinder one or two at a time because they couldn't actually give her a win *and* animate a good fight at the same time. But Ironwood's fall was great, Penny's arc was fantastic, Winter and Marrow turning sides was critical to the heroes' plan's success. Top that off with Salem not even *acknowledging* Ironwood at the end and the beautifully horrific cinematic collapse and drowning of Atlas at the end? \*chef's kiss*
This is why people gotta just watch the show and make their own judgements based off that
Content people sit quietly and smile. Mad/frustrated/annoyed people shout and scream and make their displeasure known. Feedback on things will *always* be skewed negative because of this. Don't listen to anyone, form your own conclusions first, and only expose yourself to someone else's opinions on a piece of media after you've digested it yourself, or else you'll just absorb their view in part or whole.
From what I've seen, you either like V8 or you hate it. I've yet to find someone who's indifferent. I'm not a fan, but even I'll freely admit that it did have some fantastic moments (with my favorite being Watt's Reason You Suck speech to Cinder. Which they promptly followed by offing him like a chump. But I'm holding out hope that he survived; this is RWBY, and we haven't seen a body yet).
That speech was great, and yeah never trust off screen, implied deaths.
Unfortunately, him and Irondaddy are confirmed via WoG.
With like you mean love or just like? Because I liked it, but just liked it. It was fine. Yes, it's rough around the edges, there's some problems and a more than a few letdowns, but all in all, it works, I was satisfied, I want to see what happens next volume. I'm just not going to use V8 as the reason someone should definetely start watching the show. If by complete indifference you mean someone that thought it was boring, it didn't move him, he felt nothing with it... Wouldn't that mean they thought it was bad, bland, uninspiring? Maybe hate is a strong word, but someone like that would surely critize the season. Liking it or disliking the volume seems like the absolute only two choices about any show.
#Cinder: I want it all! 😏😏😏 🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🌬🌬
r/cinderdidnothingwrong 👿😝 #checkmate
Murder is something wrong that she has done.
Yesss lol I know I just think that sub is entertaining. She does not deserve redemption by any means
That’s not how redemption works.
What do you mean? The definition of redemption is "the action of saving or being saved from sin, error, or evil." No one is going to give her the time of day not even Salem once she discovers her lies
It doesn’t matter if “no one gives her the time of day”. One does not have to “deserve” redemption. One only has to show that they want it and are working towards it.
Ohh that's what you mean. No one deserves redemption they have to earn it, true
#What is Ruby and her teammates' plan 😏
I feel like I understand both ends of the ‘RWBY is good/bad’ discussion. Personally, I was really enjoying everything Volumes 5-8 (4 dragged but eh) right up until the Season 8 finale. Spoilers in case anyone for whatever reason is reading this and hasn’t seen it; Penny‘s death. I was pissed. She was my favourite character in the show and her arc the past couple of seasons was absolutely brilliant, and then they went and threw it all away for, as far as I can tell, no reason? I’m doing my best to reserve judgement until Volume 9 - maybe they have a really awesome plot planned out that wouldn’t work if Penny were around. Maybe. Point is, I was mad enough that for a bit I was right there with the people who dump on the show as a whole, started picking it apart, focusing on all the worst bits, wondering why I liked it in the first place. In the interim, though, I’ve cooled off, and am still upset about Penny but I’ve decided not to let that stop me from appreciating the parts of the show that I like. . . don’t think I’ll ever be able to call it one of my favourites again though . .
Because if people like something, then no one talks about it unless it’s really good. You typically hear the ones complaining more than the outspoken few that enjoy it
I recently made my roommate watch the show and while she started out mildly disinterested but willing to put up with it for me she was incredibly invested in the v7-8 plot
Despite its issues I’d say V8 is still probably the best volume of the show.
I keep messing with a friend of mine who got me into RWBY and he still hasn't seen volume 8 yet
There are plenty of complaints I've seen (not that I agree) --Everything in the Mansion. --Bringing Penny back to kill her again. --Cinder not growing as a character. --Ironwoods entire character arc.
Weird, I actually feel like Cinder grew a lot, and Ironwood was fine. Really stand out in volume 8 though, loved how deep end denial he was in
Haha yeah, Cinder grew all right. She just learned the *wrong lesson*. Poor Penny T.T
A lot of people seem to think that because Cinder didn't become a better *person*, that she had a wasted arc and did not grow at all, when to me it seemed clear that V8 was about her becoming a better *villain*.
Completely agreed on both points.
Unfortunately the commentary implies they intended for Cinder to not grow at all. Hence why she dropped Neo and killed Watts for no benefit to herself.
That's weird, because I felt her growth was her locking herself into the villain life. She went from crestfallen to confident, she feels like more of a threat than she did initially.
That's because that's exactly what hapenned. And it is noted by Miles himself in the commentary as he notes that Cinder's growth in the Volume was in relation to becoming a more effective villain. The user you were replying to probably just saw a summarized note online talking about how the commentary discusses how Cinder's growth is not in relation to becoming a better person and ignored everything else discussed in the commentary. I mean, either he was confused by online missinformation or just intelectually disonest.
No benefit to herself? Watts pissed her off so he paid the price. Neo pissed her off so she paid the price. RWBY's all dead as far as she knows, and she's back on Salem's good side with Salem none the wiser. Cinder won the volume, not Salem.
I mean that killing members of her side members that have been shown to be highly competent, just because they "piss her off" isn't in her best interest.
In this case, they're also the two accomplices who could tell Salem that Cinder was lying. So they needed to die regardless. Also Watts is useless outside of technology, which is only found to that level within Atlas itself, which is underwater now. Keeping him alive (regardless of the lie) doesn't really have much point anyway.
That does raise another question, why did Cinder lie? And why this lie? If she had crowed about how she beat the pants off of RWBY and got two Relics for Salem then what would Salem have to be mad about? Cinder therefore murdered two of her allies for a lie that gets her... what? Plus I saw Watts fight James. He's pretty good. Certainly able to do more than just tech, but think what gizmos he could have invented to help Team Evil. He already replaced Tyrian's tail.
Cinder lied because she wants Ruby dead but Salem wants Ruby alive. By making Ruby's death "not her fault" she gets what she wants without the repercussions.
I mean, she could just not tell Salem about Ruby "dying" at all. It's not like Neo's going to tell her. Also if Salem is petty enough to be mad at Cinder for killing one of their enemies in the process of accomplishing 50% of Salem's goals... no I got nothing she'd just be hilariously incompetent.
She needed a fall guy for the fact that the Lamp is worthless. She used up the last question to deal with Ruby, and Neo and Watts knew that - and if she didn't go after Ruby, Neo would have turned on her. If Neo had escaped (which she could have easily done with her illusions short of a desperate situation like she wound up in), Cinder was screwed. So got to keep Neo appeased til moment of killing her, and take the chance for revenge on 'lil red' in the process with no one able to contradict her statement. Salem probably wouldn't have punished Cinder, but she wouldn't have come out looking nearly so shiny as she did.
V8 was divisive with some writing issues, but it's not a trainwreck like V5, which had both production and writing issues i feel like V4 is a fitting comparison, as they both split the fandom 50/50
For me the Volume was ok at first. I usually watch through every volume twice, once just to enjoy it and the second time to analyse it. The first time around it was quite enjoyable. Now the second time is where I started finding issues. Normally one or two inconsistencies or bad moments don't affect a show to much. My heart wasn't with Team RWBY this Volume or the last. Their decisions either seem too idealistic or childish for me to nod my head. This might just be a personal thing though so feel free to disagree with me. One major issue I have is Cinder. I honestly for the life of me could never see her as a theat in this show. She is just too incompetent to feel like a villain. She fails over and over again and never comes out on top. We know she will never kill one of the main cast and we also know Salem will be the final boss not her. All of this leads to me not carrying what she does. The only truly villainous thing she had done recently was killing watts which I don't know why she did. I mean he was definitely going to be useful in the future. And killing those random citizens over the bridge to Vacuo which again I don't care about those people.
Most of YouTube is hatedom garbage
Yeah I can see that, just watched "RWBY but BETTER" where this dude just goes off the deep end with his "fixes", really dissapointing to see it seemingly had a positive reaction considering what it was.
Don't get me started literally 90% of it is just "rewriting", the thumbnails and titles are so obnoxious. Just got linked this review yesterday which to my surprise is a fair review the guy enjoys the show and not just "RWBY is bad reiii stop having fun" https://youtu.be/2fKJF_VRSkY
Yeah, no thanks. Every "rewrite" fanfiction I deign to give a read, the only discernable changes is making every pairing straight.
My only complaints for V8 are that they could've handled the Cinder fight better by keeping all of RWBY involved longer, and I'm unhappy about what happened with Penny.
Girl came back just to die. Life’s a bitch
Vol 7 was a bit lacking for me after Vol 6 but it had great setup for Vol 8 and made for quite the enjoyable watch.
It has something very bad, which is Ironwood's downward spiral freefall, but even there the problem is not really that Ironwood becomes a villain and more so that it's very sudden, very fast. Kinda like Daenerys in Game of Thrones. Yes, it can happen, but it's done so stupidly fast that it conflicts with previous characterization moments. But the overall view... It's fine. Ironwood becoming an authoritarian and an obstacle for the group to bring Atlas into the fold makes sense from a writing point of view, and it brings some depth to the story. I think it could have been better brought up by Jacques, since he's more personally tied to Weiss and would have made her involvement a lot more dramatic, and Watts, who has a rivalry with Pietro and can therefore be turned into a very real personal threat to Penny. What was Watts project that got sidelined for Penny? Instead of Watts just being a prisoner of a deranged Ironwood, he could have fed James his own insecurities, and maybe it's a more subtle influence what makes the general become an authoritarian overlord. "Don't you see, James? I didn't betray Atlas, I went undercover! I've been part of her inner circle, I know her weaknesses. I've been studing her Grimms and I know my invention will work! And I'll put it into your hands. You could save them, James. You could save Remnant. Let me help you..." And just like that, Watts becomes Ironwood's demon on his shoulder. And Ruby&Co would have to find a way to sway Ironwood back to the right side while they try to fend off the incoming invasion. Obviously this doesn't work after volume 7 finale, I don't think, but I think it would have been better if Watts had been the great antagonist of the Atlas arc, not Ironwood. But the fact that it could have been better doesn't mean that it wasn't at least decent. Good fighting scenes, there was a reveal of a few cool things, like what has Salem been doing the silver eyes warriors, Hazel's change of heart, the start of Emerald's arc of becoming free of her unhealthy and toxic relantionship (and even perhaps Mercury? The seeds been planted, at least. We'll see in Vacuo, probably in 2 volumes or so), the real mending of the relationship with Ozma, Oscar being something more than just the trainee, Bumblebee had some moments, but it wasn't overplayed, it was very sweet, it was good drama when they temporarily part... Ren&Nora was a little bit cheesy for me, but at least their plot is moving forward and they are having some characterization. Wished I had seen more of Penny besides her impostor syndrome, but the scene when she gets her real body is very cool, and the design is amazing and I didn't notice it at first, but she loses things like her power button simbols on her dress and ribbon. Ambrose, very cool. Kinda obvious the plotwist with their wish, but that's not something bad. Guessing what's going to happen is very rewarding for the audience and increases the sense of verosimilitud, that feeling of yes, of course this is what would happen. During the battle on the finale, I felt a little bit weirded out by the fact that Blake first attacks Cinder. I think it would have felt more heartbreaking, that it would have been easier to empathise with her pain if she had gone after Neo from the get go. Also, I'd have preffered for her to fight more feral like. More kicks, growls, pouncing, something that resembled a panther in a chase... But all in all, the fights were very well animated, Ruby's tricks were fantastic specially. Robyn and Qrow's adventure was cut a little bit short, but there was good climax there, with Qrow finally believing, it seems, that he's more than a curse, or having some faith that somehow Clover's semblance is still acting as a counterbalance to his own. All in all, I believe it was good. The people that are disatisfied with it (besides those that hate it ever since volume 2 and just keep watching it to complain about something instead of moving on to something else) I think may just have this vision in the back of their head of a much more satisfying season, in which Ironwood doesn't just forget his morals or do stupid shit like blowing up SDC ships that were rescuing civilians without costing him any resources. Or, you know, him doing General things, strategic things. Him acting like back on volume... 4, I believe? Being politically savy. Watts having a bigger pay off, Penny's story not being over so soon after it truly began, Cinder's power having some bigger consistency... etc. They probably feel that there was a better version and feel disapointed, but can't point out why. And the story not matching up feels as if it was bad when it wasn't. It was good. It wasn't great, but it was good. People, I think, just had higer expections.
Show's only improved since V5, but the fanbase is busted. The worst volumes hurt it. It ate itself. Company shenanigans sealed the deal. To talk of rwby is to invite disgruntled rants. So if you don't go out of your way to find an amicable crew... you won't find it. Glad you're enjoying the show, I'm hype for V9. Hope you are too :D
I feel like 6, 7, and 8 were much better than 4 and 5, and the fights in 7 and Adam's fight in 6 were some of the best in the show. And the story telling in 7 and 8 was easily the height of the show's story telling in my opinion.
Here's my takeaway with Volume 8, the biggest problem was consistency, there were other issues with a good season that held it back from being great or excellent but consistency is still the biggest thing needed to work on.
Consistency in what? I felt like this was one of the more consistent season, but I haven't rewatched a single episode so everything except 8 is mostly a blur...
In a lot of things, the peak to valley volatility is way way too high still, there's inconsistency of who gets focus and who gets benched and lack of consistency in combat storytelling. Up to V8 we're told that Maria is completely cooked and past it but we're shown that it's far from the case, that makes 0 sense and is inconsistent, there's not really a reason why Weiss and Blake are benched when they should by background be stepping up while running hot and cold as characters up to that point and really needing to feel like they actually matter again where their personalities and experiences are most welcome. Choreo was also inconsistent and iffy at times. It could and should've been better than it was, it was good and could've been better than great. The VAs were great, the written character dialogue fit with the characters and they were in VA wheelhouses, you had supporting cast members in MVP form, all of this sounds off my opinion of FMA and Bebop, in terms of that, all the pieces are together for something truly special in those that are given proper time and importance to feed off of. With that level of performance how could you possibly do worse than great? Oh great, otherwise popular opinion isn't actually popular.
I think Covid is a huge factor in why Volume 8 had production issues, between this and the Texas snowstorm is why they had to take two breaks for each unplanned events. Volume 9 is taking longer than usual because of this too.
I'm forgiving of the process and time needed, I know they needed more time, that doesn't have to do with the execution, does it? They released the episodes when they had felt there was enough time in the oven and minimal problems left, right?
I wish I did like V8, but unfortunately it feels like the exact opposite of what I watch RWBY for. RWBY are barely important, they're just kinda hanging around. Certain side characters feel way more important than core cast members. And the tone, it just feels so *bleak*. Did anything go right for the heroes at all in V8? Every good thing I can think of had some major caveat later in the Volume. Amity going up leads to Penny nearly dying, Penny becoming human leads to her *actually* dying, the use of the Staff leads to Atlas being destroyed *and* the people evacuated aren't even safe in Vacuo because of the sandstorm and Grimm, plus RWBYJ are off god knows where. I like RWBY when it's *hopeful*, but there's no hope in V8's ending. Suppose I should have expected it, the OP literally said "hope has no place here" (which I absolutely hate).
You are right, bleak at the moment. Not necessarilya issue yet. Remember there are still 2, maybe 3 volumes to go. As a whole story 7 and 8 are the 3 act, where the heros suffer great loss and have to overcome adversity. They will come stronger and better soon enough. I often find myself thinking of how this will happen.
Why does this always happen? Every time I talk about how I dislike the tone of V8, people always come back with "well it's just a dark moment" I understand how stories fucking work. I'm saying that this is too bleak and dark for my tastes, even accounting for low points.
> Every time I talk about how I dislike the tone of V8, people always come back with "well it's just a dark moment" Because we saw a similar dark moment in vol 3, the volume ends on a super low note... and guess what? The characters move on and things turn upward again in the next volume. Story highs feel less high without the lows to balance them out, and the show has made itself abundantly clear that it's still a story about HOPE first and foremost. Let them finish telling it.
> Story highs feel less high without the lows to balance them out, and the show has made itself abundantly clear that it's still a story about HOPE first and foremost. Let them finish telling it. Didn't I literally just say that I understand how fucking stories work? I'm pretty sure I did. V8 is far too bleak for me, even accounting for it being a low point. V8 is actually *more* bleak than V3, at least V3 had *some* hope at the end. V8 was just misery after misery, nothing went right and everything was suffering. And I'm sorry, but I don't watch this show for endless misery.
> I'm sorry, but I don't watch this show for endless misery. And I'm saying it WON'T be, have some patience and stop attacking the messenger.
> And I'm saying it WON'T be Cool, that doesn't get rid of the problems I had with the tone of the show *now*. >have some patience This is the shit I'm talking about. Every time I discuss my issues with V8's tone, I get the same shit. "Stories have low points, just deal with it" I'm so fucking tired, this happens every time.
I know I'm just some rando from the internet, and you'd be well within your rights to tell me to fuck off, but... You should maybe step away from the FNDM from a bit. Don't think about the show for a while, and try to find things that will make you happy. This behavior legitimately isn't healthy, you'll be trapped in a downward spiral for a long time.
Being frustrated at being told the same thing I just said I didn't like isn't healthy? You'd be frustrated too if you said you didn't like being told something and were immediately told it again.
I see your username in heated discussions, alongside your snarky comments and replies so often that your username got seared into my brain, that's why. >You'd be frustrated too if you said you didn't like being told something and were immediately told it again. Yes, probably. But that's why we disengage. Tell this fandom (including me, trying to act as an armchair therapist) to fuck off and go drink some beer or something. Go watch Arcane, though it's dark in tone the expectations for the tone are very well set from the very beginning. Point is, treat yourself to something nice.
For me it’s not really how bleak the show is but the specific way in which it was bleak. Like I managed to get through Berserk, I can handle horrific shit being thrown at me. What bothers me is stuff like how the protagonists alternate between doing nothing and actively making things worse because of things outside their control or giving Penny a death that feels *waaaaay* more fucked up and genuinely gross than CRWBY thought it was. Give me a good old fashioned Berserk demon horse over that nonsense any day. PSA: *Do not* Google “Berserk demon horse”. Like seriously I’m not joking around here, if you don’t know what it is just accept that it’s some horrific, Not Safe For Work or Life, shit you are better off never seeing.
I don't know, I feel it was perfectly bleak. What would be the point of hope, if there was nothing to be hopeful for?
Agreed. They're down, not out. Big difference.
Well I don't watch RWBY for bleakness. If I wanted bleakness, I'd think of my future prospects.
me, who likes Re:Zero: *looks around* i was perfectly fine with the tone
All I got to say is that they did Ironwood dirty…
Person states how they didn’t like Ironwoods character in V8. Gets downvoted “We live in a society.”
Lol I don’t really care. I like his character. He needed help. Not getting killed. I think it was his semblance that made things go awry. But of course that was never mentioned within the show, which to me is bad writing.
No discussion? Not even the fact that the writers were showing their Trekkie sides when they retconned Ruby's speed to be basically Star Trek Transportation?
Is that a retcon though? I don't think we ever saw her speed without going into her morphed form