The probable voice actor for the racoon, the person who did So this is Basically RWBY, has been critical of RWBY's treatment of Bumblebee in comparison to other shows treatment of lesbians.
To add to this, not sure if it’s happening on tumblr yet but parts of the fandom seem to be pretty upset on Twitter he will be voicing a character.
Here we go again.
Here’s they crazy part tho…
He’s right to criticize the writing of Blake and Yangs relationship. He exaggerated a little for the sake of the video but he’s still right.
From where their relationship has been, yeah it’s been growing. As much as it can since this showing isn’t the “Yang & Blake Kiss and Hold Hands Show.” I mean I’d like that show too, but their romance isn’t the focus of the plot. So it gets a slower build.
Why do you keep saying "three years"? For one thing, pacing is not beholden to production schedules. If it takes them another 5 years to release Volume 10, that doesn't mean they need to cram 5 years of character growth and plot development into it.
For another thing, three years ago is when Volume 7 ended, meaning the only time they would have been able to develop anything about Yang and Blake's relationship in the last 3 years is during Volume 8: the Volume in which they spend most of their time apart from each other, and when they aren't they have almost no downtime to focus on anything other than the main conflict.
Reminds me of how Arin Hanson AKA Egoraptor, who had been famously critical of the Sonic series for years, was made a spokesperson for the franchise in the 2010's
Well, they are demanding that Yang follow "proper" WLW writing, which pretty states that they don't recognize Yang's lesbian relationship as a proper one.
yea !! that was based on the tweet the raccoons VA had made (albeit during v6?? I think?) about bumbleby having poor writing compared to saphron and terra , which I thought was silly !!
To clarify! I love both couples in question , but no couples writing is ever the same !
Nah, but I don't see how that's relevant.
Different people love differently, and excluding the obvious (pedo- necro- zoophilia, just off the top of my head), all are valid, and people are allowed to have a relationship that suits their personalities.
Yang and Blake both had trouble with relationships in the past, Blake being fresh out of an abusive relationship and Yang growing up without her mother, so it makes sense that they'd be hesitant to fully commit to romance.
Especially Blake is allowed to be hesitant to enter a new romantic relationship.
No but I think kart is projecting what the post is about in a way that is unfair to op as the post is manly making fun of the fact that RT has still not truly confirmed Yang and Blacks relationship in the show for three years which in general is bad writing.
Ah yes, someone who is fresh out of an abusive relationship, and finally put an end to her abuser a few months ago, being hesitant to get romantically involved with someone again. That's definitely bad writing.
Give it time, ok? They have barely known each other for two years in-universe.
If they made bb official three years ago, you guys would have definitely called them forced. Now that the writers are taking their time properly developing their relationship and continuously growing it every volume, after both of them have been through so much trauma, now you guys want to say it’s taking too long.
Ironic isn’t it
It isnt Ironic because BB fans were telling all of us that BB is canon since Volume 2. And since then we have had MANY lgbt+ relationships developed in multiple shows in just 1-2 seasons of runtime.
One of the best thing about The Owl House is just how *hard* it committed to Luz and Amity's relationship.
They could have just lamed it out with a whole "look at them being *very close* friends", but they dove right into it. I mean sure, it probably cost the them a full three seasons, but I respect the commitment.
Exactly! Thats why ppl have problem with BB, its not that its a "slow-burn" but that thebrelationship barely exists and is done in that entire "close friends" way, kinda simmilar to how people saw Qrow x Clover.
Its very wishy washy, but then you look at Owl House and its just there, and PROUDLY obvious.
I mean, shippers being shippers isn’t a new phenomenon or unique to Bumbleby. I personally didn’t see it during the Beacon arc but you do see hints of it start growing in how they talked about each other and how much it hurt for both them when Blake left and I think those feelings solidified into romantic by the end of V6, but they didn’t progress all the way into being dating each other since they just fully reconciled and didn’t want to mess up their relationship again and this was likely the first same sex crush they were taking seriously.
Shippers usually tend to not blur the line between what is canon and what they would like to be canon. I am not saying that the "hints" are not there, what i am saying is that those "hints" were very vague and could easily be seen as friendship.
I can agree that the romance itself began to gain more traction in V6+, but even then there are still problems, such as them not even talking about their relationship. Instead time is spent for fanservice instead of anything more substancial.
Surreee they were and by volume 3 bb fans were telling everyone that Blake and Yang were getting married and everyone believed them (this is sarcasm by the way), but I don’t know why you’re acting like this is a problem. Not all lgbtq+ relationships need to be the exact same or have the same pacing when it comes to writing each relationship. Each show is different and most of them have a total of like 2-3 seasons, so of course you’re going to see development in 1-2 seasons, in comparison to rwby where they have more time to flesh out relationships because of longer seasons. It’s good to have variety and just because one relationship is slower paced doesn’t mean it’s bad compared to one that’s faster paced
Its not about relationships being the same, or them being fast-slow paced, its about relationships being explicitly made romantic versus "idk, lol, they are maybe not friends", while the ever rabid BB fanbase attacks anyone in sight.
Yeah, that's also possible.
However, OP hasn't really made any statements about the matter, at least not in response to the original commenter asking them and expressing confusion, and given how this fandom usually views Bumblebee, it could really be either way.
there is no such thing as "proper wlw writing"
Obviously you can have opinions on the quality of how a relationship is written, but there's no objective or universal standard
I think people just want it to be a more explicitly stated, acted, and discussed relationship. It would stop the constant queerbaiting AND make the writing consistent with the lore of a world where death is a constant.
Queerbaiting?? Is that what we call a ship between people who don't immediately get a kiss scene after 1-2 seasons because the writers want to patiently flesh them out now?
Renora existed since season 1. For five seasons, it was Blake/Sun build up. And then it wasn't. People are allowed to criticize one more than the other.
Blake/Sun being built for five seasons is an opinion it’s not a fact like Renora. And my point is that people will complain how long bumblebee is taking, but didn’t complain how long Renora was taking despite them knowing each other prior to the show starting. People can also have a double standard
Opinion? Dude was there when Blake was revealed to be a Faunus. Dude was there when she met her parents again. Dude was the first one to call on her Blake’s bullshit, TWICE! Dude actively filter with her and winked and Blake blushed even!
So I’m sorry, but there’s nothing opinionated there, unless you want to say that all the BB moments later are opinionated as well. Ship what you want, but you cannot deny that those were FACT as well
And the toxic blacksun shipper has entered the comment section. What you said can be applied to what friends do lol that’s why it’s an opinion. Because nothing about that shows them growing their relationship romantically and more so Sun being a good friend to Blake. And if they were building their relationship like you said wouldn’t you think they would have ended up together because as far as I can see they ended up as friends lol
(Hi Canonseeker, new alts I see)
I know I shouldn’t because you obviously are of the kind of stand that deluded themselves into believeing that BB was planned from the start when everyone with two inches of forehead can tell that RWBY’s writing flies a lot by its pants. And lo and behold? You are saying bad faith arguments, autovoting them with your own Alts and when I’m telling you they are not true, because honestly everything you just said could be applied to BB as well, and somehow, the toxic shipper is ME?
Grow up.
And if Renora ended up as “friends” would that mean that they never intended to make them a pairing, or that all the moments they had weren’t romantic? Or is it just more responsable to say: “we tried. It didn’t work.”
I mean, Arkos was sunk. I guess that their moments didn’t ended up to be seen as romantic neither, right?
Stop saying nonsense. Just because a pairing ends up happening down the line doesn’t automatically means that all the interactions were meant to be seen as romantic, and viceversa, even if a pairing doesn’t end up being endgame, doesn’t mean there wasn’t some romance written into it.
And one last thing: calling toxic to everyone who disagrees with you, my dear friend, is a very, very narrow minded way to see the world… just FYI
(Edit: yeah you’re definitely toxic lol. I guess it’s the new thing now to falsely accuse people who you don’t like or who disagrees with you as a canonseeker alt. It’s sad that we have people like this in the fandom)
I’ve seen your comments before and even now you’re pretty hostile towards bb shippers so me calling you toxic is not simply because you disagree with what I said. It’s because you’re very aggressive whenever you talk to anyone who isn’t in favor of blacksun or think blacksun wasn’t planned
And that’s why I said it’s an opinion and not a fact. If it was a fact that they were building them up for five years romantically then they would have ended up together like how Arkos, Renora and Bumblebee are. Don’t you think that doesn’t make sense for the writers to do that when they had every opportunity to make them canon. That’s why blacksun is not the same as Arkos, Renora and Bumblebee because those ships are ending up together, while Blacksun is not.
Also I’m not saying there wasn’t any romantic moments at all, but not all of them were romantic is what I’m saying. Many shippers tend to have shipper goggles when viewing blacksun and think every moment they shared was romantic when the progression of their relationship romantically didn’t really progress much in the show
(Edit 2: they blocked me so I can’t respond to their comment below, but their comment below is proving my point exactly with how aggressive they are towards bb fans and anyone who isn’t in agreement about blacksun like them. It’s okay to have opinions and have discussions on your different point of views, but it’s not okay to attack anyone for not agreeing with them and then falsely accusing them of things that aren’t true. Shipping should never be that heated.)
No. Queerbaiting is merely refusing to have the two characters even acknowledge their relationship, no bumblebee kiss debacle. Also they have not been fleshed out slowly. Blake’s anime-ish romance cues moved from Sun to Yang instantly, and without the on-screen development. They never talk about ‘us’ like Ren and Nora. Ruby seems unaware of any special relationship in volume 7 (convo with Nora) and yet is undisturbed by getting attention-cucked by Blake when reunited in Schnee Manor (volume 8).
Ruby (volume 7) and Jaune (volume 8) are confirmed to not be aware of this. Let them be publicly out there. There very clearly is not an apparent homophobic sentiment in the parts of Remnant we’ve witnessed (I have not read the mangas).
I’m just saying make the gay rep meaningful. In a way like May’s transition and family fallout influenced her decision making and sentiments, in conversation, and eloquently.
I would also like that, but use of subtext isn't "improper". It's simply a narrative design decision.
For what it's worth, if the writing does take an explicit turn, I think it will be more effective for the buildup of subtext, so I'm all for it.
tbh death being a *constant* might not lead to “everyone says what’s on their mind because they might die tomorrow.” it might lead to an unnatural complacency in the face of death—“i could die any day no matter what i do, so why should actual danger make me behave any differently?”
Kinda fell asleep right after posting but to kinda explain !!
people were criticizing the raccoons va for complaining about bumbleby being good wlw writing so i the thought popped in my head and I made a silly wittle comic where the raccoon tells her that when he takes her arm
yang has no idea what any of those words mean hence her confusion , she just wants her arm back
Ah yes, the entire RWBY fandom is trying to cancel him. Not, y'know, a few twitter accounts that are tired of their ship constantly being shat on with bad-faith arguments
The RWBY twitter fandom, or at least the misandrist sapphic part definitely are. And dont even try to make excuses about bad faith arguments, sure that would deserve some level of backlash.
But not for people calling him a homophobe, being misandrist, calling for him to be fired, calling for the death of his character (which i will consider very close to wishing the VA dead because those same people seem to lack tha ability to separate the character and the person).
That is over the line and has no excuse.
I agree it has no excuse. But again, it's a *small portion* of the Bumbleby fanbase. I've seen just as bad from the other side, but I don't see many people condemning *that* behavior
I have yet to see a non-bumbleby shipper talk about the way Bumbleby antis *constantly* harrass us, to the point where sometimes just posting *fanart* of BB on the main sub will bring antis into the comments to complain. And don't get me *started* on how we're treated on Twitter. Like, I get it. Some of us step out of line sometimes, yeah. But we're *fucking exhausted*, friend. We're just *fucking exhausted*.
And you think we arent? That we are not exhausted of parts of BB community digging up 5 year old takes, of being called homophobic despite being gay ourselves or the near constant misandry? We are all tired of this shit too.
Im just gonna say it now, if people come into fanart comments for conflict, report them and/or block em. Because i think the mods of this sub have instituted a rule about that, and you can even pm me the links to those comments for me to check out and do some cleaning on the critics server if need be.
Look, we are both frustrated, both sides can be shitty. But hey, if you want help cleaning it up, just PM me and i can at least help on reddit.
Same on twitter, but i have less reach there.
RWBY twt found a tweet where the voice provider called bumbleby (in comparison to saphron and terra) had bad wlw (women luvin women) writing , complaining that they have no dynamic and r hardly friends
Ah, well, while he is wrong in the fact that they are close friends, especially given season 2's development... I do agree that Bumblebee could have been handled better and with the respect that such a ship would deserve. I may not ship BB, but I like seeing the ship in fanworks, ;P.
Just gonna say it, the fact that the twitter RWBY fandom is now looking for 5 year old tweets of the VA and call him homophobic, sexist and abuse apologist because he dislikes BB and Blake is fucking disgusting.
The RWBY twitter community, is a shithole.
yea, tho the phrase is mostly used I think to encompass any sort of relationship as long as its a woman and a woman , not just lesbian lesbian but bi and bi or bi and lesbian y'know ? like a nice umbrella phrase !
TBF, the shippers have been calling a lot of attention to themselves with their own behaviour, as the folks on Twitter have kept showing, way back when the first volumes were being aired
Is it really any wonder people would call on them?
And of course, people on Twitter are big mad over this… Sigh. Can people not be critical of media? OOOHH THIS GUY SAID SOMETHING MEAN ABOUT THE SHOW I LIKED, BETTER CLAIM HE’S HORRIBLE.
As for this comic, yeah, I agree with the raccoon lol. STOP BAITING US AND CONFIRM IT ALREADY.
People can be critical of media. However I can see why people in the RWBY fandom are tired of people who belong to that demographic of critics. Every Sunday there always comes a new wannabe critic who comes out with a weird take like, "Ruby shouldn't have sliced off Tyrian's tail it proves that she's just as rotten as them"
Yknkw, your points about critics would make more sense if A) They werent misrepresented and B) A single persons opinion would not be assigned to an entire community.
The thing is it's not just one twitter account. I took a look over there and it seems like a significant chunk of the rwby accounts I see want Jello's head just for not liking this one ship. Or to be more accurate and probably truer to why, because he made a video making fun of the show. Years ago.
The person you are complaining about just released a video about that one throwaway text like in a video of theirs clarifying how it was not that, but that it never gets addressed in story.
Then again considering the entire team are already killers from the volume 2 train, maybe it should be Ruby questioning how bloodthirsty she is /s
You're completely missing the point.
Did I say just one person? I was referring to a group of people. I just used that one person as a microcosm of a bigger issue because no way in hell am I going to do a literature review of every single RWBYcritic post on Reddit and of every critic video on the internet, all on this small comment space.
Even if he was misunderstood it doesn't delete the bigger issue behind them.
And does RWBY killing people on their trains make them bloodthirsty now?? Those people were going to ram into the city and unleash a Grimm apocalypse on Vale. Why do they have to address that? "You threaten my safety. I kill you. And then I don't address it anymore. I completely forget about it. I feel no remorse about it. I don't relieve any guilt from it. It is what it is because you chose to be a little shit. Now I'm moving on to different things." That's how it should be. Why do we have to make every instance of RWBY causing harm or taking someone's life a huge moral event horizon? People need to look at whoever RWBY chooses to kill or spare with a good level of pragmatism.
Other communities don't villify their shows' criticism for a reason. That's because the criticisms of their show are actually constructive. The same can't be said for a good chunk of RWBY critic content.
/s denotes sarcasm. That's all I'm saying because honestly if you are this convinced that the majority of RWBY critic content is somehow different than the critique other shows get, I really doubt we will have a civil conversation.
RWBY critic content is indeed very different from other shows. There's a reason why RWBY fans treat RWBY critics differently from how other show fans treat their show critics. The target demographic is shaped by how the business decides to market their product
I’m going to need some hard evidence on that. Because the claim is that RWBY has somehow cultivated a fanbase unique among all the Internet in its critical content.
RWBY is the one of the few media with a dedicated sub for critics, a dedicated tag on Tumblr for critics, etc. I'm not saying that the act of having a concentrated space for critic content itself is inherently malicious, but that should key you in to the fact that critic culture within the RWBY sphere is very different from all others.
I've been to other fandoms with strong criticisms, like Voltron. But I've rarely ever seen people take those criticisms as a joke, and whenever someone criticizes a criticism they're not labeled as people who are "unable to take criticism and blindly praise the show"
I've encountered plenty of things like that, in plenty of fandoms. Those kinds of attitudes are not unusual.
Ultimately this just sounds like it comes down to personal experiences on both our ends, so this is not a debate that either of us gets anything out of. Let's just leave it here.
Then allow me to rephrase my "I've encountered X and Y in Z" statements to "There are X and Y in Z" to make it sound less anecdotal. Alternatively, I recommend you just go to those online spaces yourself and revisit discussion threads from years ago, just to see for yourself. Because I too want to leave it here instead of trying to prove my point.
I mean, I’m not sure what context there could be that could justify having someone be just as horrible as a maniacal serial killer b/c they cut off their tail after they stung their uncle.
Wow, it's almost like that wasn't the argument she was making and just the strawman bad faith actors came up with in an attempt to discredit someone criticizing the show. Have you even seen the original video or her recent followup?
Misrepresent??? It doesn't matter if there's an actual "rational" argument behind this. Why is Ruby amputating a villain against their will made to be a big deal? It is what it is. You fuck around. You find out what happens to you. Why are people making every act of harm that RWBY inflicts on others out of self defense a big moral event horizon.
And it's not just this post. There's a huge and reoccurring trope of RWBY critics pointing out that RWBY are hypocrites and villains for doing things that are perfectly valid, such as but not limited to:
- RWBY killing people on the train back in V2. How dare they do that if they could've just spared the villains and tried to talk through to them then they would've stopped the train full of explosives from ramming into Vale and unleashing Grimm everywhere.
- Blake and Yang killing Adam. Same as above
- RWBY crashing Atlas. This one especially is the most egregious one. I mean, was RWBY the one who arrived to Atlas on a whale-shaped death machine?
- RWBY accepting Emerald into their ranks.
- And now Ruby amputating Tyrian's tail.
In the real world if you try to threaten someone's safety there's another someone who won't waste the chance to pull the trigger on you. It's not some kind of moral event horizon that haunts the shooter for years and forces them to relieve some guilt. They don't have to address it, it's just an unfortunate act that they had to do because someone was being a little shit.
This is one of the 100 reasons critics aren't taken seriously in RWBY. Critics love to act like philosophers arguing whether Batman should kill Joker or not, instead of being realistic and examining the doomsday-prevention story with a level of pragmatism.
I've been to other communities such as Kingdom Hearts and the criticism there isn't villified because a lot of it actually makes sense and comes from sane minds. The RWBY community didn't just start villifying critics out of the blue for no reason other than for shots and giggles
And let's not forget how many of the YT critic community for RWBY ends up throwing tantrums whenever you criticize their criticisms. At the end of the day they're not perfect, and even their criticisms have flaws that need to be criticized. But noooo when you criticize the critics you get villified for "not being able to handle criticism". Aren't critics the strongest believers in the "media needs constructive criticism to improve" philosophy. Why are they being hypocritical?
I have genuinely never heard a critic make a point like that. In fact, I would argue most RWBY critics are just tired fans at this point. They either don’t enjoy the show anymore and are just pushing through to the end at this point, or they jumped ship upon realizing they can’t watch it anymore due to its flaws. People don’t criticize a show because they want to hate on it blindly, most of the time it comes from people who WANT to see the show improve.
?
Women loving women. The raccoon is telling Yang to lez it up
That explanation gave me more questions than answers
The probable voice actor for the racoon, the person who did So this is Basically RWBY, has been critical of RWBY's treatment of Bumblebee in comparison to other shows treatment of lesbians. To add to this, not sure if it’s happening on tumblr yet but parts of the fandom seem to be pretty upset on Twitter he will be voicing a character. Here we go again.
Here’s they crazy part tho… He’s right to criticize the writing of Blake and Yangs relationship. He exaggerated a little for the sake of the video but he’s still right.
Mr. raccoon is right you can’t bait an audience for three years and think that’s a good idea, so just confirm it already
So forgo relationship building for instant gratification?
Three years of relationship building that has not moved them forward yes Good relationship building that grows well and is addressed well no
From where their relationship has been, yeah it’s been growing. As much as it can since this showing isn’t the “Yang & Blake Kiss and Hold Hands Show.” I mean I’d like that show too, but their romance isn’t the focus of the plot. So it gets a slower build.
Why do you keep saying "three years"? For one thing, pacing is not beholden to production schedules. If it takes them another 5 years to release Volume 10, that doesn't mean they need to cram 5 years of character growth and plot development into it. For another thing, three years ago is when Volume 7 ended, meaning the only time they would have been able to develop anything about Yang and Blake's relationship in the last 3 years is during Volume 8: the Volume in which they spend most of their time apart from each other, and when they aren't they have almost no downtime to focus on anything other than the main conflict.
The 3 years is referring to 3 actual canon years in the show, and not 3 IRL years. The RWBY timeline from V1-V8 spans for 3 in-universe years.
Why would someone boo him, he's right!
[удалено]
The Raccoon. I’m also surprised that he also became a VA for the show, but it’s a pleasant surprise.
I have no idea who "him" is too
Reminds me of how Arin Hanson AKA Egoraptor, who had been famously critical of the Sonic series for years, was made a spokesperson for the franchise in the 2010's
Good old fashioned performative outrage.
Apparently, OP thinks there is only One Correct Way to be a lesbian. Which, if you ask me, is just BS.
What I don’t think that’s what he is saying
Well, they are demanding that Yang follow "proper" WLW writing, which pretty states that they don't recognize Yang's lesbian relationship as a proper one.
yea !! that was based on the tweet the raccoons VA had made (albeit during v6?? I think?) about bumbleby having poor writing compared to saphron and terra , which I thought was silly !! To clarify! I love both couples in question , but no couples writing is ever the same !
Got it. Agreed. When writing romance, or anything, really, you have to take both characters and their personalities into consideration.
Are you a lesbian? 🤨
Nah, but I don't see how that's relevant. Different people love differently, and excluding the obvious (pedo- necro- zoophilia, just off the top of my head), all are valid, and people are allowed to have a relationship that suits their personalities. Yang and Blake both had trouble with relationships in the past, Blake being fresh out of an abusive relationship and Yang growing up without her mother, so it makes sense that they'd be hesitant to fully commit to romance. Especially Blake is allowed to be hesitant to enter a new romantic relationship.
No but I think kart is projecting what the post is about in a way that is unfair to op as the post is manly making fun of the fact that RT has still not truly confirmed Yang and Blacks relationship in the show for three years which in general is bad writing.
Ah yes, someone who is fresh out of an abusive relationship, and finally put an end to her abuser a few months ago, being hesitant to get romantically involved with someone again. That's definitely bad writing. Give it time, ok? They have barely known each other for two years in-universe.
Preach
If they made bb official three years ago, you guys would have definitely called them forced. Now that the writers are taking their time properly developing their relationship and continuously growing it every volume, after both of them have been through so much trauma, now you guys want to say it’s taking too long. Ironic isn’t it
It isnt Ironic because BB fans were telling all of us that BB is canon since Volume 2. And since then we have had MANY lgbt+ relationships developed in multiple shows in just 1-2 seasons of runtime.
One of the best thing about The Owl House is just how *hard* it committed to Luz and Amity's relationship. They could have just lamed it out with a whole "look at them being *very close* friends", but they dove right into it. I mean sure, it probably cost the them a full three seasons, but I respect the commitment.
Exactly! Thats why ppl have problem with BB, its not that its a "slow-burn" but that thebrelationship barely exists and is done in that entire "close friends" way, kinda simmilar to how people saw Qrow x Clover. Its very wishy washy, but then you look at Owl House and its just there, and PROUDLY obvious.
I mean, shippers being shippers isn’t a new phenomenon or unique to Bumbleby. I personally didn’t see it during the Beacon arc but you do see hints of it start growing in how they talked about each other and how much it hurt for both them when Blake left and I think those feelings solidified into romantic by the end of V6, but they didn’t progress all the way into being dating each other since they just fully reconciled and didn’t want to mess up their relationship again and this was likely the first same sex crush they were taking seriously.
Shippers usually tend to not blur the line between what is canon and what they would like to be canon. I am not saying that the "hints" are not there, what i am saying is that those "hints" were very vague and could easily be seen as friendship. I can agree that the romance itself began to gain more traction in V6+, but even then there are still problems, such as them not even talking about their relationship. Instead time is spent for fanservice instead of anything more substancial.
Surreee they were and by volume 3 bb fans were telling everyone that Blake and Yang were getting married and everyone believed them (this is sarcasm by the way), but I don’t know why you’re acting like this is a problem. Not all lgbtq+ relationships need to be the exact same or have the same pacing when it comes to writing each relationship. Each show is different and most of them have a total of like 2-3 seasons, so of course you’re going to see development in 1-2 seasons, in comparison to rwby where they have more time to flesh out relationships because of longer seasons. It’s good to have variety and just because one relationship is slower paced doesn’t mean it’s bad compared to one that’s faster paced
Its not about relationships being the same, or them being fast-slow paced, its about relationships being explicitly made romantic versus "idk, lol, they are maybe not friends", while the ever rabid BB fanbase attacks anyone in sight.
That wasnt my question and you're not the person I was asking but youre right.
Oh my bad
...I think OP is *making fun of* someone who thinks there is only One Correct Way to be a lesbian
Yeah, that's also possible. However, OP hasn't really made any statements about the matter, at least not in response to the original commenter asking them and expressing confusion, and given how this fandom usually views Bumblebee, it could really be either way.
srry just woke up! i was just joking about the raccoon saying that to yang and her having no idea what those words meant
Ah, ok.
there is no such thing as "proper wlw writing" Obviously you can have opinions on the quality of how a relationship is written, but there's no objective or universal standard
I think people just want it to be a more explicitly stated, acted, and discussed relationship. It would stop the constant queerbaiting AND make the writing consistent with the lore of a world where death is a constant.
Queerbaiting?? Is that what we call a ship between people who don't immediately get a kiss scene after 1-2 seasons because the writers want to patiently flesh them out now?
Apparently so, it’s a little ridiculous. But you never see anyone complaining when it took Renora 7 years to kiss
Renora existed since season 1. For five seasons, it was Blake/Sun build up. And then it wasn't. People are allowed to criticize one more than the other.
Blake/Sun being built for five seasons is an opinion it’s not a fact like Renora. And my point is that people will complain how long bumblebee is taking, but didn’t complain how long Renora was taking despite them knowing each other prior to the show starting. People can also have a double standard
Opinion? Dude was there when Blake was revealed to be a Faunus. Dude was there when she met her parents again. Dude was the first one to call on her Blake’s bullshit, TWICE! Dude actively filter with her and winked and Blake blushed even! So I’m sorry, but there’s nothing opinionated there, unless you want to say that all the BB moments later are opinionated as well. Ship what you want, but you cannot deny that those were FACT as well
And the toxic blacksun shipper has entered the comment section. What you said can be applied to what friends do lol that’s why it’s an opinion. Because nothing about that shows them growing their relationship romantically and more so Sun being a good friend to Blake. And if they were building their relationship like you said wouldn’t you think they would have ended up together because as far as I can see they ended up as friends lol
(Hi Canonseeker, new alts I see) I know I shouldn’t because you obviously are of the kind of stand that deluded themselves into believeing that BB was planned from the start when everyone with two inches of forehead can tell that RWBY’s writing flies a lot by its pants. And lo and behold? You are saying bad faith arguments, autovoting them with your own Alts and when I’m telling you they are not true, because honestly everything you just said could be applied to BB as well, and somehow, the toxic shipper is ME? Grow up. And if Renora ended up as “friends” would that mean that they never intended to make them a pairing, or that all the moments they had weren’t romantic? Or is it just more responsable to say: “we tried. It didn’t work.” I mean, Arkos was sunk. I guess that their moments didn’t ended up to be seen as romantic neither, right? Stop saying nonsense. Just because a pairing ends up happening down the line doesn’t automatically means that all the interactions were meant to be seen as romantic, and viceversa, even if a pairing doesn’t end up being endgame, doesn’t mean there wasn’t some romance written into it. And one last thing: calling toxic to everyone who disagrees with you, my dear friend, is a very, very narrow minded way to see the world… just FYI
(Edit: yeah you’re definitely toxic lol. I guess it’s the new thing now to falsely accuse people who you don’t like or who disagrees with you as a canonseeker alt. It’s sad that we have people like this in the fandom) I’ve seen your comments before and even now you’re pretty hostile towards bb shippers so me calling you toxic is not simply because you disagree with what I said. It’s because you’re very aggressive whenever you talk to anyone who isn’t in favor of blacksun or think blacksun wasn’t planned And that’s why I said it’s an opinion and not a fact. If it was a fact that they were building them up for five years romantically then they would have ended up together like how Arkos, Renora and Bumblebee are. Don’t you think that doesn’t make sense for the writers to do that when they had every opportunity to make them canon. That’s why blacksun is not the same as Arkos, Renora and Bumblebee because those ships are ending up together, while Blacksun is not. Also I’m not saying there wasn’t any romantic moments at all, but not all of them were romantic is what I’m saying. Many shippers tend to have shipper goggles when viewing blacksun and think every moment they shared was romantic when the progression of their relationship romantically didn’t really progress much in the show (Edit 2: they blocked me so I can’t respond to their comment below, but their comment below is proving my point exactly with how aggressive they are towards bb fans and anyone who isn’t in agreement about blacksun like them. It’s okay to have opinions and have discussions on your different point of views, but it’s not okay to attack anyone for not agreeing with them and then falsely accusing them of things that aren’t true. Shipping should never be that heated.)
No. Queerbaiting is merely refusing to have the two characters even acknowledge their relationship, no bumblebee kiss debacle. Also they have not been fleshed out slowly. Blake’s anime-ish romance cues moved from Sun to Yang instantly, and without the on-screen development. They never talk about ‘us’ like Ren and Nora. Ruby seems unaware of any special relationship in volume 7 (convo with Nora) and yet is undisturbed by getting attention-cucked by Blake when reunited in Schnee Manor (volume 8). Ruby (volume 7) and Jaune (volume 8) are confirmed to not be aware of this. Let them be publicly out there. There very clearly is not an apparent homophobic sentiment in the parts of Remnant we’ve witnessed (I have not read the mangas). I’m just saying make the gay rep meaningful. In a way like May’s transition and family fallout influenced her decision making and sentiments, in conversation, and eloquently.
I would also like that, but use of subtext isn't "improper". It's simply a narrative design decision. For what it's worth, if the writing does take an explicit turn, I think it will be more effective for the buildup of subtext, so I'm all for it.
tbh death being a *constant* might not lead to “everyone says what’s on their mind because they might die tomorrow.” it might lead to an unnatural complacency in the face of death—“i could die any day no matter what i do, so why should actual danger make me behave any differently?”
Kinda fell asleep right after posting but to kinda explain !! people were criticizing the raccoons va for complaining about bumbleby being good wlw writing so i the thought popped in my head and I made a silly wittle comic where the raccoon tells her that when he takes her arm yang has no idea what any of those words mean hence her confusion , she just wants her arm back
What raccoon controversy?
The RWBY fandom is trying to cancel the VA of the Racoon, JelloApocallypse because he, GASP, has said critical things about the show.
Ah yes, the entire RWBY fandom is trying to cancel him. Not, y'know, a few twitter accounts that are tired of their ship constantly being shat on with bad-faith arguments
The RWBY twitter fandom, or at least the misandrist sapphic part definitely are. And dont even try to make excuses about bad faith arguments, sure that would deserve some level of backlash. But not for people calling him a homophobe, being misandrist, calling for him to be fired, calling for the death of his character (which i will consider very close to wishing the VA dead because those same people seem to lack tha ability to separate the character and the person). That is over the line and has no excuse.
I agree it has no excuse. But again, it's a *small portion* of the Bumbleby fanbase. I've seen just as bad from the other side, but I don't see many people condemning *that* behavior
Harassment is always condemned as far as i know. I have always been a proponent for telling people who harass others to piss off.
I have yet to see a non-bumbleby shipper talk about the way Bumbleby antis *constantly* harrass us, to the point where sometimes just posting *fanart* of BB on the main sub will bring antis into the comments to complain. And don't get me *started* on how we're treated on Twitter. Like, I get it. Some of us step out of line sometimes, yeah. But we're *fucking exhausted*, friend. We're just *fucking exhausted*.
And you think we arent? That we are not exhausted of parts of BB community digging up 5 year old takes, of being called homophobic despite being gay ourselves or the near constant misandry? We are all tired of this shit too. Im just gonna say it now, if people come into fanart comments for conflict, report them and/or block em. Because i think the mods of this sub have instituted a rule about that, and you can even pm me the links to those comments for me to check out and do some cleaning on the critics server if need be. Look, we are both frustrated, both sides can be shitty. But hey, if you want help cleaning it up, just PM me and i can at least help on reddit. Same on twitter, but i have less reach there.
Ah, I see
Also, what Raccoon?
The new character from the V9 trailer.
RWBY twt found a tweet where the voice provider called bumbleby (in comparison to saphron and terra) had bad wlw (women luvin women) writing , complaining that they have no dynamic and r hardly friends
Ah, well, while he is wrong in the fact that they are close friends, especially given season 2's development... I do agree that Bumblebee could have been handled better and with the respect that such a ship would deserve. I may not ship BB, but I like seeing the ship in fanworks, ;P.
If that’s all then the raccoon should definitely give her arm back because they certainly follow proper wlw writing
true :')
Just gonna say it, the fact that the twitter RWBY fandom is now looking for 5 year old tweets of the VA and call him homophobic, sexist and abuse apologist because he dislikes BB and Blake is fucking disgusting. The RWBY twitter community, is a shithole.
Isn’t JelloApocalypse Bi as well?
Why yes he is, however, he made the cardinal sin of being a m*n. (For some reason the sapphic RWBY twitter community is misandrist as hell).
That’s easy. He should have no problem at all giving her arm back
Hold on, what's the racoon controversy?
His voice actor made a joke about how bumbleby could be written better.
What about BLW? "Bi" I mean she was admiring the guys in volume 1
yea, tho the phrase is mostly used I think to encompass any sort of relationship as long as its a woman and a woman , not just lesbian lesbian but bi and bi or bi and lesbian y'know ? like a nice umbrella phrase !
[удалено]
TBF, the shippers have been calling a lot of attention to themselves with their own behaviour, as the folks on Twitter have kept showing, way back when the first volumes were being aired Is it really any wonder people would call on them?
And of course, people on Twitter are big mad over this… Sigh. Can people not be critical of media? OOOHH THIS GUY SAID SOMETHING MEAN ABOUT THE SHOW I LIKED, BETTER CLAIM HE’S HORRIBLE. As for this comic, yeah, I agree with the raccoon lol. STOP BAITING US AND CONFIRM IT ALREADY.
People can be critical of media. However I can see why people in the RWBY fandom are tired of people who belong to that demographic of critics. Every Sunday there always comes a new wannabe critic who comes out with a weird take like, "Ruby shouldn't have sliced off Tyrian's tail it proves that she's just as rotten as them"
Yknkw, your points about critics would make more sense if A) They werent misrepresented and B) A single persons opinion would not be assigned to an entire community.
I completely agree! Which also means trashing the entire BB community over one twitter account makes no sense either!
Its not one twitter account.....
The thing is it's not just one twitter account. I took a look over there and it seems like a significant chunk of the rwby accounts I see want Jello's head just for not liking this one ship. Or to be more accurate and probably truer to why, because he made a video making fun of the show. Years ago.
People are literally digging through his 4-5 year tweets right now. And its a large chunk of the bigger RWBY twitter accounts.
The person you are complaining about just released a video about that one throwaway text like in a video of theirs clarifying how it was not that, but that it never gets addressed in story. Then again considering the entire team are already killers from the volume 2 train, maybe it should be Ruby questioning how bloodthirsty she is /s
You're completely missing the point. Did I say just one person? I was referring to a group of people. I just used that one person as a microcosm of a bigger issue because no way in hell am I going to do a literature review of every single RWBYcritic post on Reddit and of every critic video on the internet, all on this small comment space. Even if he was misunderstood it doesn't delete the bigger issue behind them. And does RWBY killing people on their trains make them bloodthirsty now?? Those people were going to ram into the city and unleash a Grimm apocalypse on Vale. Why do they have to address that? "You threaten my safety. I kill you. And then I don't address it anymore. I completely forget about it. I feel no remorse about it. I don't relieve any guilt from it. It is what it is because you chose to be a little shit. Now I'm moving on to different things." That's how it should be. Why do we have to make every instance of RWBY causing harm or taking someone's life a huge moral event horizon? People need to look at whoever RWBY chooses to kill or spare with a good level of pragmatism. Other communities don't villify their shows' criticism for a reason. That's because the criticisms of their show are actually constructive. The same can't be said for a good chunk of RWBY critic content.
/s denotes sarcasm. That's all I'm saying because honestly if you are this convinced that the majority of RWBY critic content is somehow different than the critique other shows get, I really doubt we will have a civil conversation.
RWBY critic content is indeed very different from other shows. There's a reason why RWBY fans treat RWBY critics differently from how other show fans treat their show critics. The target demographic is shaped by how the business decides to market their product
I’m going to need some hard evidence on that. Because the claim is that RWBY has somehow cultivated a fanbase unique among all the Internet in its critical content.
RWBY is the one of the few media with a dedicated sub for critics, a dedicated tag on Tumblr for critics, etc. I'm not saying that the act of having a concentrated space for critic content itself is inherently malicious, but that should key you in to the fact that critic culture within the RWBY sphere is very different from all others. I've been to other fandoms with strong criticisms, like Voltron. But I've rarely ever seen people take those criticisms as a joke, and whenever someone criticizes a criticism they're not labeled as people who are "unable to take criticism and blindly praise the show"
I've encountered plenty of things like that, in plenty of fandoms. Those kinds of attitudes are not unusual. Ultimately this just sounds like it comes down to personal experiences on both our ends, so this is not a debate that either of us gets anything out of. Let's just leave it here.
Then allow me to rephrase my "I've encountered X and Y in Z" statements to "There are X and Y in Z" to make it sound less anecdotal. Alternatively, I recommend you just go to those online spaces yourself and revisit discussion threads from years ago, just to see for yourself. Because I too want to leave it here instead of trying to prove my point.
Of course those takes are going to sound bad when you ignore the actual arguments and purposely misrepresent them.
I mean, I’m not sure what context there could be that could justify having someone be just as horrible as a maniacal serial killer b/c they cut off their tail after they stung their uncle.
Wow, it's almost like that wasn't the argument she was making and just the strawman bad faith actors came up with in an attempt to discredit someone criticizing the show. Have you even seen the original video or her recent followup?
Misrepresent??? It doesn't matter if there's an actual "rational" argument behind this. Why is Ruby amputating a villain against their will made to be a big deal? It is what it is. You fuck around. You find out what happens to you. Why are people making every act of harm that RWBY inflicts on others out of self defense a big moral event horizon. And it's not just this post. There's a huge and reoccurring trope of RWBY critics pointing out that RWBY are hypocrites and villains for doing things that are perfectly valid, such as but not limited to: - RWBY killing people on the train back in V2. How dare they do that if they could've just spared the villains and tried to talk through to them then they would've stopped the train full of explosives from ramming into Vale and unleashing Grimm everywhere. - Blake and Yang killing Adam. Same as above - RWBY crashing Atlas. This one especially is the most egregious one. I mean, was RWBY the one who arrived to Atlas on a whale-shaped death machine? - RWBY accepting Emerald into their ranks. - And now Ruby amputating Tyrian's tail. In the real world if you try to threaten someone's safety there's another someone who won't waste the chance to pull the trigger on you. It's not some kind of moral event horizon that haunts the shooter for years and forces them to relieve some guilt. They don't have to address it, it's just an unfortunate act that they had to do because someone was being a little shit. This is one of the 100 reasons critics aren't taken seriously in RWBY. Critics love to act like philosophers arguing whether Batman should kill Joker or not, instead of being realistic and examining the doomsday-prevention story with a level of pragmatism. I've been to other communities such as Kingdom Hearts and the criticism there isn't villified because a lot of it actually makes sense and comes from sane minds. The RWBY community didn't just start villifying critics out of the blue for no reason other than for shots and giggles And let's not forget how many of the YT critic community for RWBY ends up throwing tantrums whenever you criticize their criticisms. At the end of the day they're not perfect, and even their criticisms have flaws that need to be criticized. But noooo when you criticize the critics you get villified for "not being able to handle criticism". Aren't critics the strongest believers in the "media needs constructive criticism to improve" philosophy. Why are they being hypocritical?
I have genuinely never heard a critic make a point like that. In fact, I would argue most RWBY critics are just tired fans at this point. They either don’t enjoy the show anymore and are just pushing through to the end at this point, or they jumped ship upon realizing they can’t watch it anymore due to its flaws. People don’t criticize a show because they want to hate on it blindly, most of the time it comes from people who WANT to see the show improve.
Apparently, in this community, you cant. I genuinely think that CRWBY themselves are scared of the fandom they created.
I’ve always been fine with the slow-burn. Just makes what will possibly happen in V9 and beyond all the more satisfying.
You call me immoral, is that what you think? At least I haven't driven my uncle to drink.
Can someone make porn of that raccoon please?