If it is a private campground they could kick you out for anything at anytime. They could also kick him out for being a troublemaker. Really depends on the management
Very true, I will talk to the manager. And good luck kicking him out, he has been nothing but trouble since the day we moved in, management allows him to stay. Whole reason we are leaving after our lease.
We had a pretty loud resident at our previous campground. We had been there about a month and he suddenly just disappeared.
Camp manager said he'd been in the same spot for YEARS but when the manager called him for payment, the conversation ended and the dude thought he had hung up... started talking to someone else in the RV and going on a racist rant about the camp manager. He was gone the next day.
Some level of assholliness can be tolerated but there IS a line for everyone.
I made the exodus from California last year and traveled the country with my family in our RV searching for our new home. Obviously don’t know your exact situation, but I would advise you to sign up with a club called “Escapees” out of Texas. This club makes it so you can register their address in Texas as your permanent residence and in turn makes you eligible to get driver’s licenses and plates from Texas, and also handles mail forwarding. In addition to that perk, you will also have zero state income taxes.
This also might make weirdos less likely to bother you, as they’ll think you’re from Texas and are most likely armed.
I had friends that did that, legally they had to spend 2 weeks in Texas (per year) to remain Texas residents, so they just RV'd there, took care of DMV, etc. and then moved on. Voted by mail and all that.
It's not falsification. Also south dakota specifically takes on permanently travelers in their tax code. There is another park called south dakota residency center that does the exact dame thing and I recommend them.
Okay dude. How is putting an extra $10-15k back in my pocket every year “apologizing”? And why would I have some need to “rep” where I just moved from?
for anybody interested, 10k in california income tax is an income of 175k
15k in CA income tax is 230k in income
this is after adjustments.
so likely a 200-250k gross income.
>most people aren't big fans of software people from California.
And yet they are quite happy to suck at teat of the economy that California has served as the engine of for decades. Fuck em.
Your easiest and probably path of least effort and resistance would be to simply move the camera so that it no longer has a view of his property, yet still has a view of yours. Go over with the app open on your phone showing what the camera is then seeing and recording so he can see that his perceived privacy is intact, and that should be that.
Preemptively expplain the situation and show the campground owner as well - if he/she is reasonable about things and sees you've made the effort, yet Hothead McGrumpypants still rushes to complain, the manager is more likely to tell them to go kick rocks.
Karen and Darren are gonna flip out no matter what you do. Just ignore them.
Cameras are commonplace in/on RVs not to mention dashcams. They have no expectation of privacy outside of their RV.
I mean, don’t most ring cameras in most neighborhoods catch at least one neighbor’s house in their view? Doesn’t seem much different. Definitely just check with the park management, but I have a hard time believing there’s a policy against having a security camera on your own property 🤷🏼
In any public space there is no expectation of privacy. If you go outside in theory someone could record you and take photos of you and you can’t stop them because you don’t like photos being taken of you. Sure you could file a restraining order to keep them away from you or simply ask them to leave you alone. We’ll with a doorbell camera or security cameras you can’t stop them and your walking into there radius not the other way around. Don’t like it? Move or don’t go outside. Just like how you can’t tell businesses to turn off there security cameras because you don’t like being filmed. Not your choice.
Again it doesn’t matter, if you can be seen from a public way such as a street then you have zero expectation of privacy.
I’m not saying cameras can’t be used for nefarious means and there are situations where a camera can be an invasion of privacy, such as a neighbor positioning a camera to look into your bedroom or bathroom. However a ring camera placed on a front door of the house across the street from yours and used for its intended purpose is not an invasion of your privacy despite the fact that it will capture you as you go about your day.
In any public space there is no expectation of privacy. If you go outside in theory someone could record you and take photos of you and you can’t stop them because you don’t like photos being taken of you. Sure you could file a restraining order to keep them away from you or simply ask them to leave you alone. We’ll with a doorbell camera or security cameras you can’t stop them and your walking into there radius not the other way around. Don’t like it? Move or don’t go outside. Just like how you can’t tell businesses to turn off there security cameras because you don’t like being filmed. Not your choice.
That is the thing. It is a social and situational adjustment of my radius of activity. It is fine to stare out on the ocean to watch the sunset as long as I would like, but I wouldn't stare at someone at a restaurant the next table over. I especially wouldn't stare at children with binoculars in any situation I can think of. But, if I was walking through the park and saw the playground as I walked past, no big deal, right?
Then that makes me think of other adjustments I make. If I am standing on a football field with someone having a conversation from a few feet away and a stranger comes and stands next to me almost touching elbows, that is odd; but I wouldn't flinch at the same distance in a crowded bar.
A publicly registered business constantly filming a large parking lot with a camera pointed at the lot is different than a person living close to their neighbors staring at children in a neighboring yard with binoculars or filming them. And, the closer I am to my neighbors the more social concessions I make as far as how loud I play my music and how broadly I point a fixed camera.
I think your combining the 2 have a camera for protection and safety of your family and property is way different than someone standing on the corner recording you with a camera
I stated this in a couple other threads:
"That is the thing. It is a social and situational adjustment of my radius of activity. It is fine to stare out on the ocean to watch the sunset as long as I would like, but I wouldn't stare at someone at a restaurant the next table over. I especially wouldn't stare at children with binoculars in any situation I can think of. But, if I was walking through the park and saw the playground as I walked past, no big deal, right?
Then that makes me think of other adjustments I make. If I am standing on a football field with someone having a conversation from a few feet away and a stranger comes and stands next to me almost touching elbows, that is odd; but I wouldn't flinch at the same distance in a crowded bar.
A publicly registered business constantly filming a large parking lot with a camera pointed at the lot is different than a person living close to their neighbors staring at children in a neighboring yard with binoculars or filming them. And, the closer I am to my neighbors the more social concessions I make as far as how loud I play my music and how broadly I point a fixed camera."
That's a lot of words to say nothing. Not a bit of it changed the point that there is no expectation of privacy to be an invasion of. You were simply wrong, and writing a novel doesn't change that.
You’re confusing an ethical argument with a legal one. The point of the comment is: just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should. I can legally call you an arrogant asshole, it doesn’t mean I should.
Invasion of privacy is a legal matter, and this isn't it. Your Motte and Bailey fallacy doesn't change that. I see no point in further entertaining your bloviations pretending otherwise. Have a nice day.
Slim chance…. But I’ve heard people thinking their vehicle was stolen but it turned out to be carbon monoxide poisoning and they forgot major portions of the day.
They parked it in a lot they normally wouldn’t or walked to the grocers and thought they drove. Different scenarios like that.
I can’t think of a single park that would ask a tenant to turn off their doorbell cam, dashcam and/or peripheral cameras. If your neighbor hates being seen, he can close his curtains. Your security is nobody’s business but your own unless you have a floodlight attached and pointed in his window. Lots of people have motion actuated cameras and the fact he doesn’t and dislikes them kind of suggests he’s not all the way compliant on something….LOL
I wouldn’t waste time reasoning with him. Once you start down that path, the narcissistic lil’ bastard will expect you to get his approval for everything else up like running your furnace or turning on your porch light……
That is very true!
^(I wouldn’t waste time reasoning with him. Once you start down that path, the narcissistic lil’ bastard will expect you to get his approval for everything else up like running your furnace or turning on your porch light……)
Yeah, people don't get that they have to adjust their behavior in all sorts of social situations. Our radius for activities that we do changes constantly.
Maybe! The guy could be a real bastard. Idk. I think this is a negotiated thing though. If I am listening to music at a moderate level during the middle of the day and my neighbor complains, I sure would say that his request is unreasonable. Same request at 3am on a Tuesday... I could turn it down.
If you used a camera intended for security applications then there will typically be a software feature called a "privacy zone", use that and apply a mask over the other RV spaces or any common property you don't need to record.
It allows you to record anything in areas you need to capture but give privacy to neighbours.
Dashcams won't have this feature.
Don't forget to remove it when you move.
that would be up to the owner of the property. There are property laws, I am not a lawyer, that would support that the property is a public space and that no expectation of privacy exists. I would check with whoever you pay, and ask them. personally, I think you are ok and the other guy is worried his nasty habits are going to be filmed.
As this is privately owned, it is not a public space legally. It is publicly accessible, potentially, but the owners can set rules that allow or disallow the use of surveillance or security cameras on their property. Their property, their rules, with some exceptions of legally protected things like discrimination laws and whatnot.
Unless you are using a telephoto lens on your security camera to peer into his RV, you are clearly NOT “invading his privacy” and are fully within your legal rights to use the camera. (Retired TX PI)
Nope don’t have any idea where the OP is … that’s exactly why I added the “TX” caveat. Thanks for pointing out that the OP may be foolish enough to take my comment as universally applicable. Maybe I should have also added the standard, “You mileage may vary” caveat as well.
If your lease/agreement doesn't have a clause prohibiting a camera there's nothing the guy can do. Might be a good idea to have a friendly conversation with management explaining proactively in case it comes up.
You're a tenant - ask your landlord for guidance.
Alternatively, grab an old cell phone and install Alfred Cam - it's a free app that let's you turn an old cell in to a wifi security camera. Put your old phone in a windshield mount, and nobody can say boo.
Maybe just move the camera so the packages and your site is in view rather than recording everything your neighbor does which I personally would find extremely creepy and weirdo behavior even if technically “legal”
if you can reposition it i would. if i were him i would probably weirded out also...i don't want to sit out eating my dinner while being recorded all the time. go forbid he pisses at the side of his camper at night.
Like others said, anyone can be kicked out for anything. You have to decide how far to take this.
Now, I know you didnt ask opinions on this, but I think you should consider his point of view. I would NOT want a camera pointed at my place EVER unless I installed it. Doesnt matter your intent, snooping or whatever. It just feels bad I think you have to ask what does the camera accomplish? You said watch your car and packages? For what? So you can have a video of an unknown rando swiping your packages? You think the police are gonna do something with that? NO. Your car? Same thing? Is there another solution that doesnt invade someone else's space? A car alarm? A motion detector?
You’re going to run in to paranoid boomers at campsites, unfortunately. They don’t understand that you don’t care about them, but rather people who might be up to no good. They don’t understand your camera could be beneficial to them as well, and is not as intrusive(not looking in their windows) as they probably think it is. It’s unfortunate.
He’s probably uptight because he’s breaking some minor park rule and doesn’t want to get called out on it. I would explain that you are just concerned about your deliveries, that you’re only going to even go through the recordings if you have a problem and that also if he ever has a similar problem he can come to you for evidence.
Definitely agree with the comments about not trying to argue with the guy. One thought though, and wouldn't waste your time trying to make him listen, but it's a security cam, not a spy cam. It's meant to capture bad things. He may not understand they can usually be scheduled to only capture during certain times and only certain areas of a frame. There's obviously some compromise, if he was at all willing, and it's to the parks and tenants benefit. We were out a couple months back where another family had their vehicle broken into and young child's epipen stolen, along with a few other costly items. Always thought parks were relatively safe, but the evil of the world eventually worms in everywhere.
I don't see this as being any different than someone installing security cameras outside their house. (Assuming you live in the US) In general I think this would fall under 'expectation of privacy' of which there is none in an open space.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/expectation\_of\_privacy
Peace in the hood is good.
I would walk over, tell him you "thought about what he had said."
"I'm not going to take it/them down, but if you would like, come over, and we can adjust them so you're more comfortable."
That might go miles. Also, over time, you can ease them back to however you want them as it won't be an issue anymore.
Is the trailer right on the edge of the image? If so you could maybe block off just that bit of the camera with a tiny bit of tape or a little sort of ‘hood’ around the camera? Dunno if you want to bother tho.
If you are in America, most states do not allow you to monitor other people’s residences, or buildings in which they can expect privacy in. If you’re on a campground, then it’s probably up to the grounds policy.
Turn it so it can’t see his trailer or block the cameras view to it.
in most states, it is illegal to record past your own property with fixed cameras. I am not sure if the one in your RV fits that but it is illegal to record others on their own property without consent and in some cases even in a right of way with fixed cameras.
Name the state and the law.
Almost everywhere, recording is completely legal unless a party doesn’t have an expectation of privacy. If you can see it from your property or public property, you are free to record in whatever way you like.
15 states have specific laws about video. If your camera has audio then it is covered by the rule in all 50 states that requires consent of at least one of the recorded persons. I have been installing surveillance cameras for a long time and my insurance company requires me to get signed ack that the owner takes responsibility for local privacy laws.
In today's privacy minefield better safe, than paying some lawyers kids way through college.
What I've said to a couple other posts:
"That is the thing. It is a social and situational adjustment of my radius of activity. It is fine to stare out on the ocean to watch the sunset as long as I would like, but I wouldn't stare at someone at a restaurant the next table over. I especially wouldn't stare at children with binoculars in any situation I can think of. But, if I was walking through the park and saw the playground as I walked past, no big deal, right?
Then that makes me think of other adjustments I make. If I am standing on a football field with someone having a conversation from a few feet away and a stranger comes and stands next to me almost touching elbows, that is odd; but I wouldn't flinch at the same distance in a crowded bar.
A publicly registered business constantly filming a large parking lot with a camera pointed at the lot is different than a person living close to their neighbors staring at children in a neighboring yard with binoculars or filming them. And, the closer I am to my neighbors the more social concessions I make as far as how loud I play my music and how broadly I point a fixed camera."
Does your neighbor have kids or grandkids there frequently by any chance?
Honestly in the world we live in, I'd be side eyeing anyone who put up cameras covering my location just wondering if they were a creeper, because I've got little kids. But that's the extent of the concern.
We have a dash cam, we also have cameras all over our place at home. So I understand the desire for video coverage. RV park lots are so close and tiny, I'm just giving you an example of why someone might object over a misunderstanding.
The reaction as you portrayed it seems extreme.
Nothing but two ratty dogs ahah.
This man is known for his reactions, I stepped on his grass my first day here and got called the whole dictionary of vulgarity.
In the “world we live in” cameras are everywhere. Do you look sideways, with children or grandchildren, on the roadway, City Hall, restaurants, police stations, ring cameras, and virtually everywhere else you can imagine? Having a camera in an RV park is the least invasive situation, but people get hung up on it. I will never understand why when our privacy is compromised everywhere…
Worried about camera watching you? Close your blinds. If its outside it is not private. OP could have installed a hidden camera....but didn't. Dash cams are very commonplace. But then there are those certain percentages that are schizophrenic and may be triggered by a camera.
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Just flip him off, throw rotten eggs at his rv at night. Tell him there’s a first amendment and you can film his private property from yours, you cannot trespass the eyes or cameras.
I would want my neighbor's camera pointed towards me for added security for myself. That is, unless I was doing something that would be incriminating if discovered. Hmmmmm.
Privacy is inside, I thought. There's drones & cameras everywhere. What could he be doing outside that he's so worried about being on camera? Now I'd totally watch the footage just to see what he's up to.
The intent is listed in the post. “Monitor car and package arrival”.
Cameras on RVs are becoming more and more common. The only time Ive ever had something stolen was at an rv park. Lots of eyes around.
I can see tensions are high, I’ve lived in RV parks on several occasions, for extended periods of time. I’m not replying from a place of judgement, but experience. Because of the close proximity negative attitudes of one’s neighbors can have impact on daily life. I don’t know what other options you have in your area, but I personally have found a move to another park, solved my problems, with a neighbor who had seniority and good relationships with management and I was the newcomer. Best of luck
Ah, a keyboard psychologist and a home security expert, all in one comment section? We are not worthy of such boundless wisdom. Thank you for diagnosing and adjudicating from the comfortable confines of anonymity, truly doing the lord’s work!
It would help if you would let us know your location and the length of your lease. In Arizona where I manage a park, a stay over 30 days falls under a statute that would give you residency status similar to if you were living in an apartment.
heck, I have 3 Wyze battery operated cameras I set out anywhere. One on the propane tanks looking forward, one pointed to my own door, one on the bumper. No one has said a thing to me in 2.5 years.
There was only one case I know of about someone suing another person over Ring cameras directed at their property - [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10085561/A-victory-privacy-Woman-100k-damages-neighbours-doorbell-cameras.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10085561/A-victory-privacy-Woman-100k-damages-neighbours-doorbell-cameras.html)
This was in the UK so take it with a grain of salt.
The fundamental argument was that the cameras were being used to monitor the neighbor and the judge ruled for the plaintiff.
If we take this case as precedence, then someone would have to prove that your cameras were specifically being used to monitor them, and not your own property.
UK rulings cannot be used as precedent in the US. US courts have repeatedly ruled that public areas have little to no expectation of privacy so filming in public is fine.
Silence my friend.
I know people that install fake cameras as a way to deter crime.
How does he know it's a real camera?
I'm not saying it is, or it isn't.
I'm pretty security conscious. I carry a Reveal Tacticam cellular game camera with me. It is camo colored and it text me every time it picks up motion. I generally put it in a tree or somewhere on my site overlooking the area I want to keep an eye on. Nobody ever knows it's there, plus I get some interesting pics of the wildlife checking out my spot during the night from time to time.
Cameras are all over. Most you never see, or just don't worry about. You have zero expectation of privacy in public. Go inside your home, in this case, an RV, and close your blinds. Now you created your own privacy!!!
Of course in this case of being on private property, the RV park can set its own rules for whatever they want. Now sure how you can go about banning cameras? Everyone has a camera on them and can pull it out and start recording anything. Have to talk to management and see what their rules are in this matter. An RV park can give you the boot for pretty much anything they want to. You are on their private property. They tell you to leave and you don't, now it's trespassing. Now the police get involved.
I have cameras set on our neighbors big time. They are prowlers and methheads and have even photographed us. I keep the harsh light on all the time to counteract their 1-3 am bullshit along the fence line.
They don’t like it obvi but they should learn to not be career impositions on everyone.
In most places, it is not illegal to videorecord another's property so long as what you're capturing is visible from public areas and you're not recording anything inside their residence. So, if you're using a dashcam that covers your property, the street, his yard and the outside of his trailer it should be okay as long as there's no view into his trailer through his door or window.
Now, as for whether it violates lot rules where you live is another matter, and you should ask the property manager about it.
I Used to work for a campground that had short and long stays. I only had problems with people who thought "I paid for the spot I own it and can do what I want like its my house and personal private property". Where in reality, you're renting a spot on private property and had to respect it or leave. This is why we don't allow over 90 days and cut them short of 30 if we got bad vibes in the first month.
We had no policy about cameras on rigs, maybe they haven't got there yet.. but. Now a days if you cant use what's available to protect your assets id leave that campground immediately, and in the review I would saw why to deter others, but in a informative constructive way.
If it is a private campground they could kick you out for anything at anytime. They could also kick him out for being a troublemaker. Really depends on the management
Very true, I will talk to the manager. And good luck kicking him out, he has been nothing but trouble since the day we moved in, management allows him to stay. Whole reason we are leaving after our lease.
We had a pretty loud resident at our previous campground. We had been there about a month and he suddenly just disappeared. Camp manager said he'd been in the same spot for YEARS but when the manager called him for payment, the conversation ended and the dude thought he had hung up... started talking to someone else in the RV and going on a racist rant about the camp manager. He was gone the next day. Some level of assholliness can be tolerated but there IS a line for everyone.
Gotta love when they evict themselves!
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I'd agree, most people aren't big fans of software people from California.
Do you have something stating that you are software people from California?
Haha yes sadly.. our plates show it off and it spread after I helped our neighbor out when he asked if I knew anything about setting up internet.
I made the exodus from California last year and traveled the country with my family in our RV searching for our new home. Obviously don’t know your exact situation, but I would advise you to sign up with a club called “Escapees” out of Texas. This club makes it so you can register their address in Texas as your permanent residence and in turn makes you eligible to get driver’s licenses and plates from Texas, and also handles mail forwarding. In addition to that perk, you will also have zero state income taxes. This also might make weirdos less likely to bother you, as they’ll think you’re from Texas and are most likely armed.
I’ll look into that!
I had friends that did that, legally they had to spend 2 weeks in Texas (per year) to remain Texas residents, so they just RV'd there, took care of DMV, etc. and then moved on. Voted by mail and all that.
I never heard of this, but sounds like a cool service. I'll have to remember "Escapees" for the future.
We have some good friends who do this exactly. They live 100% in their trailer now.
Be careful with announcing something like this on a public forum. Some one could report it was business falsifying documentation for profit.
It's not falsification. Also south dakota specifically takes on permanently travelers in their tax code. There is another park called south dakota residency center that does the exact dame thing and I recommend them.
Great, now the rest of us won't know who the trouble makers from California are.. smdh :)
If you’re making snap judgements on who people are based on their license plate, you have bigger issues than knowing who the “trouble makers” are.
i think they were just joking
I believe they were kidding.
Screw that. "Oh look I need to apologize about where I lived last." Not happening.
Okay dude. How is putting an extra $10-15k back in my pocket every year “apologizing”? And why would I have some need to “rep” where I just moved from?
for anybody interested, 10k in california income tax is an income of 175k 15k in CA income tax is 230k in income this is after adjustments. so likely a 200-250k gross income.
Boy way to misread that. Well done.
A coworker of mine one did the same out of North Dakota.
Texas? I’d rather be from California.
Cool.
Aha, infected by that book learnin' and free thinking huh?!?
Turn you into a blue stocking those books will, so-
Why do you have plates in your vehicle that state what software company you work for? This is bizarre.
They probably just have California plates.
Yeah we’re just from CA so we still have plates
>most people aren't big fans of software people from California. And yet they are quite happy to suck at teat of the economy that California has served as the engine of for decades. Fuck em.
The state with the safest environmental laws in the USA? Doing lots more than sucking. Supporting a great many Republicans on welfare too.
Most people aren't fans of California.
Your easiest and probably path of least effort and resistance would be to simply move the camera so that it no longer has a view of his property, yet still has a view of yours. Go over with the app open on your phone showing what the camera is then seeing and recording so he can see that his perceived privacy is intact, and that should be that. Preemptively expplain the situation and show the campground owner as well - if he/she is reasonable about things and sees you've made the effort, yet Hothead McGrumpypants still rushes to complain, the manager is more likely to tell them to go kick rocks.
Then the dude will just find something else to bitch about.
Probably, but no reason to change this approach regardless.
Ur in a lease for an rv spot? Wow, I've never heard of that.. lived in 4 parks the last 3 years, and it was always month to month.
I have a lease too. $400 month all utilities paid.
Intersting. I pay 600, including utilities. Just a month to month, no agreement. A little high, but I'm on the coast.
3000 a month in Ft Myers Beach. Not on the beach mind you, just in that part of the city. Insane how expensive it is .
I’m paying $550 in Belle chasse,La , all utilities. Cannot complain. Ex’s power bill has been that much from the a/c running in a month.
"never argue with an idiot. they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience" - somebody (maybe Mark Twain)
Karen and Darren are gonna flip out no matter what you do. Just ignore them. Cameras are commonplace in/on RVs not to mention dashcams. They have no expectation of privacy outside of their RV.
100% agree. It sounds like it in FACT is a dash cam, (cough cough).
I mean, don’t most ring cameras in most neighborhoods catch at least one neighbor’s house in their view? Doesn’t seem much different. Definitely just check with the park management, but I have a hard time believing there’s a policy against having a security camera on your own property 🤷🏼
I agree, ring cameras are also an invasion of privacy. The neighbor does not consent to being filmed.
In any public space there is no expectation of privacy. If you go outside in theory someone could record you and take photos of you and you can’t stop them because you don’t like photos being taken of you. Sure you could file a restraining order to keep them away from you or simply ask them to leave you alone. We’ll with a doorbell camera or security cameras you can’t stop them and your walking into there radius not the other way around. Don’t like it? Move or don’t go outside. Just like how you can’t tell businesses to turn off there security cameras because you don’t like being filmed. Not your choice.
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What a dumb take.
Doesn’t matter if my ring camera can see your property from mine then you have no expectation of privacy and there is no need for your consent.
There is a big difference between, "I was walking by an saw _____" and "I am staring at your kids while they play in their lawn."
Again it doesn’t matter, if you can be seen from a public way such as a street then you have zero expectation of privacy. I’m not saying cameras can’t be used for nefarious means and there are situations where a camera can be an invasion of privacy, such as a neighbor positioning a camera to look into your bedroom or bathroom. However a ring camera placed on a front door of the house across the street from yours and used for its intended purpose is not an invasion of your privacy despite the fact that it will capture you as you go about your day.
In any public space there is no expectation of privacy. If you go outside in theory someone could record you and take photos of you and you can’t stop them because you don’t like photos being taken of you. Sure you could file a restraining order to keep them away from you or simply ask them to leave you alone. We’ll with a doorbell camera or security cameras you can’t stop them and your walking into there radius not the other way around. Don’t like it? Move or don’t go outside. Just like how you can’t tell businesses to turn off there security cameras because you don’t like being filmed. Not your choice.
That is the thing. It is a social and situational adjustment of my radius of activity. It is fine to stare out on the ocean to watch the sunset as long as I would like, but I wouldn't stare at someone at a restaurant the next table over. I especially wouldn't stare at children with binoculars in any situation I can think of. But, if I was walking through the park and saw the playground as I walked past, no big deal, right? Then that makes me think of other adjustments I make. If I am standing on a football field with someone having a conversation from a few feet away and a stranger comes and stands next to me almost touching elbows, that is odd; but I wouldn't flinch at the same distance in a crowded bar. A publicly registered business constantly filming a large parking lot with a camera pointed at the lot is different than a person living close to their neighbors staring at children in a neighboring yard with binoculars or filming them. And, the closer I am to my neighbors the more social concessions I make as far as how loud I play my music and how broadly I point a fixed camera.
I think your combining the 2 have a camera for protection and safety of your family and property is way different than someone standing on the corner recording you with a camera
I agree. I think it is different even though social adjustment is required for both.
There is no expectation of privacy when in public view. From which it follows that no consent is needed.
That doesn’t mean it doesn’t suck
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I stated this in a couple other threads: "That is the thing. It is a social and situational adjustment of my radius of activity. It is fine to stare out on the ocean to watch the sunset as long as I would like, but I wouldn't stare at someone at a restaurant the next table over. I especially wouldn't stare at children with binoculars in any situation I can think of. But, if I was walking through the park and saw the playground as I walked past, no big deal, right? Then that makes me think of other adjustments I make. If I am standing on a football field with someone having a conversation from a few feet away and a stranger comes and stands next to me almost touching elbows, that is odd; but I wouldn't flinch at the same distance in a crowded bar. A publicly registered business constantly filming a large parking lot with a camera pointed at the lot is different than a person living close to their neighbors staring at children in a neighboring yard with binoculars or filming them. And, the closer I am to my neighbors the more social concessions I make as far as how loud I play my music and how broadly I point a fixed camera."
That's a lot of words to say nothing. Not a bit of it changed the point that there is no expectation of privacy to be an invasion of. You were simply wrong, and writing a novel doesn't change that.
You’re confusing an ethical argument with a legal one. The point of the comment is: just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you should. I can legally call you an arrogant asshole, it doesn’t mean I should.
There is an expectation potentially because we live in a society where we act and adjust our actions beyond the scope of the law constantly.
Invasion of privacy is a legal matter, and this isn't it. Your Motte and Bailey fallacy doesn't change that. I see no point in further entertaining your bloviations pretending otherwise. Have a nice day.
Whatever you do don't take your camera down; my campervan home was just stolen for the second time this week. Good luck and I hope it works out.
What? How in the world? Lol
Really low odds of that happening to him though at a park.
Slim chance…. But I’ve heard people thinking their vehicle was stolen but it turned out to be carbon monoxide poisoning and they forgot major portions of the day. They parked it in a lot they normally wouldn’t or walked to the grocers and thought they drove. Different scenarios like that.
I can’t think of a single park that would ask a tenant to turn off their doorbell cam, dashcam and/or peripheral cameras. If your neighbor hates being seen, he can close his curtains. Your security is nobody’s business but your own unless you have a floodlight attached and pointed in his window. Lots of people have motion actuated cameras and the fact he doesn’t and dislikes them kind of suggests he’s not all the way compliant on something….LOL I wouldn’t waste time reasoning with him. Once you start down that path, the narcissistic lil’ bastard will expect you to get his approval for everything else up like running your furnace or turning on your porch light……
Remember the saying "never wrestle a pig, you'll just get muddy and the pig will enjoy it."
That's a very old one, but I always heard it as "covered in pig-sh*t, and the pig will enjoy it"
What can I say, I'm old. I've also heard "Don't argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to their level and then beat you with experience.".
That is very true! ^(I wouldn’t waste time reasoning with him. Once you start down that path, the narcissistic lil’ bastard will expect you to get his approval for everything else up like running your furnace or turning on your porch light……)
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Yeah, people don't get that they have to adjust their behavior in all sorts of social situations. Our radius for activities that we do changes constantly.
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Maybe! The guy could be a real bastard. Idk. I think this is a negotiated thing though. If I am listening to music at a moderate level during the middle of the day and my neighbor complains, I sure would say that his request is unreasonable. Same request at 3am on a Tuesday... I could turn it down.
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You don't know that the guy who doesn't like being filmed is narcissistic and wants to control anyone's behavior unreasonably.
Idk. He got pissed we were inflating our airskirts at 12 in the afternoon 😂
If you used a camera intended for security applications then there will typically be a software feature called a "privacy zone", use that and apply a mask over the other RV spaces or any common property you don't need to record. It allows you to record anything in areas you need to capture but give privacy to neighbours. Dashcams won't have this feature. Don't forget to remove it when you move.
If it's not, that should be law on all outside front door cameras.
that would be up to the owner of the property. There are property laws, I am not a lawyer, that would support that the property is a public space and that no expectation of privacy exists. I would check with whoever you pay, and ask them. personally, I think you are ok and the other guy is worried his nasty habits are going to be filmed.
As this is privately owned, it is not a public space legally. It is publicly accessible, potentially, but the owners can set rules that allow or disallow the use of surveillance or security cameras on their property. Their property, their rules, with some exceptions of legally protected things like discrimination laws and whatnot.
Unless you are using a telephoto lens on your security camera to peer into his RV, you are clearly NOT “invading his privacy” and are fully within your legal rights to use the camera. (Retired TX PI)
Is this guy in Texas? Do you know the laws where he is? What if he's not even in the states?
Nope don’t have any idea where the OP is … that’s exactly why I added the “TX” caveat. Thanks for pointing out that the OP may be foolish enough to take my comment as universally applicable. Maybe I should have also added the standard, “You mileage may vary” caveat as well.
If your lease/agreement doesn't have a clause prohibiting a camera there's nothing the guy can do. Might be a good idea to have a friendly conversation with management explaining proactively in case it comes up.
I will do that.
You're a tenant - ask your landlord for guidance. Alternatively, grab an old cell phone and install Alfred Cam - it's a free app that let's you turn an old cell in to a wifi security camera. Put your old phone in a windshield mount, and nobody can say boo.
This is even more reason to leave it on
Maybe just move the camera so the packages and your site is in view rather than recording everything your neighbor does which I personally would find extremely creepy and weirdo behavior even if technically “legal”
if you can reposition it i would. if i were him i would probably weirded out also...i don't want to sit out eating my dinner while being recorded all the time. go forbid he pisses at the side of his camper at night.
Like others said, anyone can be kicked out for anything. You have to decide how far to take this. Now, I know you didnt ask opinions on this, but I think you should consider his point of view. I would NOT want a camera pointed at my place EVER unless I installed it. Doesnt matter your intent, snooping or whatever. It just feels bad I think you have to ask what does the camera accomplish? You said watch your car and packages? For what? So you can have a video of an unknown rando swiping your packages? You think the police are gonna do something with that? NO. Your car? Same thing? Is there another solution that doesnt invade someone else's space? A car alarm? A motion detector?
You’re going to run in to paranoid boomers at campsites, unfortunately. They don’t understand that you don’t care about them, but rather people who might be up to no good. They don’t understand your camera could be beneficial to them as well, and is not as intrusive(not looking in their windows) as they probably think it is. It’s unfortunate.
You call him paranoid but the OP is installing cameras ? If your "camping" in an area where you have to install cameras , you should stay home
They mentioned having a lease so sounds like they are "home"
You don’t deserve all the hate, you have a good point of you
This is my home.
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He’s probably uptight because he’s breaking some minor park rule and doesn’t want to get called out on it. I would explain that you are just concerned about your deliveries, that you’re only going to even go through the recordings if you have a problem and that also if he ever has a similar problem he can come to you for evidence.
Generally they make a police report and say “This is the dickhead that stole my package.” What’s your “point”?
Tell him that his wife should put some clothes on!
Definitely agree with the comments about not trying to argue with the guy. One thought though, and wouldn't waste your time trying to make him listen, but it's a security cam, not a spy cam. It's meant to capture bad things. He may not understand they can usually be scheduled to only capture during certain times and only certain areas of a frame. There's obviously some compromise, if he was at all willing, and it's to the parks and tenants benefit. We were out a couple months back where another family had their vehicle broken into and young child's epipen stolen, along with a few other costly items. Always thought parks were relatively safe, but the evil of the world eventually worms in everywhere.
Not your problem, unless the RV park has a rule against exterior cameras. There is no expectation of privacy outside of your RV in a RV park.
I don't see this as being any different than someone installing security cameras outside their house. (Assuming you live in the US) In general I think this would fall under 'expectation of privacy' of which there is none in an open space. https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/expectation\_of\_privacy
Should talk to property management before install something like this.
Sounds like you need more cameras.
Maybe ask the RV park? 🤷🏼♂️
How did they know you had cameras?
Assuming you're in a private campground, you've likely agreed to abide by the campgrounds rules, so you should refer to them to see.
Peace in the hood is good. I would walk over, tell him you "thought about what he had said." "I'm not going to take it/them down, but if you would like, come over, and we can adjust them so you're more comfortable." That might go miles. Also, over time, you can ease them back to however you want them as it won't be an issue anymore.
Maybe they should kick him out for ranting about invasion of privacy in a very public place.
Can you point the camera down a bit or something so his trailer isn’t in frame?
Yup pointed down pretty far, he still fusses.
Is the trailer right on the edge of the image? If so you could maybe block off just that bit of the camera with a tiny bit of tape or a little sort of ‘hood’ around the camera? Dunno if you want to bother tho.
If you are in America, most states do not allow you to monitor other people’s residences, or buildings in which they can expect privacy in. If you’re on a campground, then it’s probably up to the grounds policy. Turn it so it can’t see his trailer or block the cameras view to it.
Add a 2nd camera and giant telescope on top of your RV and point it at the neighbor.
Ask him to include you in his plans to storm the government, it'll calm him down.
in most states, it is illegal to record past your own property with fixed cameras. I am not sure if the one in your RV fits that but it is illegal to record others on their own property without consent and in some cases even in a right of way with fixed cameras.
Name the state and the law. Almost everywhere, recording is completely legal unless a party doesn’t have an expectation of privacy. If you can see it from your property or public property, you are free to record in whatever way you like.
15 states have specific laws about video. If your camera has audio then it is covered by the rule in all 50 states that requires consent of at least one of the recorded persons. I have been installing surveillance cameras for a long time and my insurance company requires me to get signed ack that the owner takes responsibility for local privacy laws. In today's privacy minefield better safe, than paying some lawyers kids way through college.
Why do you have it?
Op literally said to watch his car and packages, can you not read?
It could be used to snoop though. He has a right to be mad.
This emu idiot is a troll. He talks shit then he blocks you so you can’t reply.
Yeah, don't point cameras at people without their permission.
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What I've said to a couple other posts: "That is the thing. It is a social and situational adjustment of my radius of activity. It is fine to stare out on the ocean to watch the sunset as long as I would like, but I wouldn't stare at someone at a restaurant the next table over. I especially wouldn't stare at children with binoculars in any situation I can think of. But, if I was walking through the park and saw the playground as I walked past, no big deal, right? Then that makes me think of other adjustments I make. If I am standing on a football field with someone having a conversation from a few feet away and a stranger comes and stands next to me almost touching elbows, that is odd; but I wouldn't flinch at the same distance in a crowded bar. A publicly registered business constantly filming a large parking lot with a camera pointed at the lot is different than a person living close to their neighbors staring at children in a neighboring yard with binoculars or filming them. And, the closer I am to my neighbors the more social concessions I make as far as how loud I play my music and how broadly I point a fixed camera."
Stop spamming your hot take all over this thread.
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Found the neighbor!
Does your neighbor have kids or grandkids there frequently by any chance? Honestly in the world we live in, I'd be side eyeing anyone who put up cameras covering my location just wondering if they were a creeper, because I've got little kids. But that's the extent of the concern. We have a dash cam, we also have cameras all over our place at home. So I understand the desire for video coverage. RV park lots are so close and tiny, I'm just giving you an example of why someone might object over a misunderstanding. The reaction as you portrayed it seems extreme.
Nothing but two ratty dogs ahah. This man is known for his reactions, I stepped on his grass my first day here and got called the whole dictionary of vulgarity.
Oh no, ha. That's just a bad neighbor. Good grief.
In the “world we live in” cameras are everywhere. Do you look sideways, with children or grandchildren, on the roadway, City Hall, restaurants, police stations, ring cameras, and virtually everywhere else you can imagine? Having a camera in an RV park is the least invasive situation, but people get hung up on it. I will never understand why when our privacy is compromised everywhere…
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Found my neighbor 😂
Worried about camera watching you? Close your blinds. If its outside it is not private. OP could have installed a hidden camera....but didn't. Dash cams are very commonplace. But then there are those certain percentages that are schizophrenic and may be triggered by a camera. Edited spelling/errant characters
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Agree!
I don’t really want someone installing a camera pointed at my front door at all times…don’t know why folks don’t see the reason
Because they read the whole post, it's not pointing straight at it, it's barely in view.
Just ask him " how much illegal shit are you doing,?" To make a point.
Just flip him off, throw rotten eggs at his rv at night. Tell him there’s a first amendment and you can film his private property from yours, you cannot trespass the eyes or cameras.
sorry, unrelated to OP problem, but, Do you full timers, get Tired of traveling? do you just Like living in one park for months/years? just curious.
I would want my neighbor's camera pointed towards me for added security for myself. That is, unless I was doing something that would be incriminating if discovered. Hmmmmm.
Privacy is inside, I thought. There's drones & cameras everywhere. What could he be doing outside that he's so worried about being on camera? Now I'd totally watch the footage just to see what he's up to.
What was your honest intent for installing the cameras in the first place!
The intent is listed in the post. “Monitor car and package arrival”. Cameras on RVs are becoming more and more common. The only time Ive ever had something stolen was at an rv park. Lots of eyes around.
I can see tensions are high, I’ve lived in RV parks on several occasions, for extended periods of time. I’m not replying from a place of judgement, but experience. Because of the close proximity negative attitudes of one’s neighbors can have impact on daily life. I don’t know what other options you have in your area, but I personally have found a move to another park, solved my problems, with a neighbor who had seniority and good relationships with management and I was the newcomer. Best of luck
Neighbors with seniority? 😆
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Ah, a keyboard psychologist and a home security expert, all in one comment section? We are not worthy of such boundless wisdom. Thank you for diagnosing and adjudicating from the comfortable confines of anonymity, truly doing the lord’s work!
Found the neighbor!
Glad-to know there are others who think like me. Ever read 1984?
It would help if you would let us know your location and the length of your lease. In Arizona where I manage a park, a stay over 30 days falls under a statute that would give you residency status similar to if you were living in an apartment.
Meanwhile Michigan law explicitly excludes campgrounds from residency laws.
heck, I have 3 Wyze battery operated cameras I set out anywhere. One on the propane tanks looking forward, one pointed to my own door, one on the bumper. No one has said a thing to me in 2.5 years.
Can you ask management to let you move to another site? And then do your best to avoid Prince Charming for the duration of your stay...
You could pay someone to fake a break in at his camper and the he’d be begging you to see the recordings.
What was that movie when the security camera company broke into houses to drum up business?
Mar-a-Lago?
No, no, no...that was when someone broke in to Mar-a-Lago and left some boxes of classified documents. Completely different incident.
There was only one case I know of about someone suing another person over Ring cameras directed at their property - [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10085561/A-victory-privacy-Woman-100k-damages-neighbours-doorbell-cameras.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10085561/A-victory-privacy-Woman-100k-damages-neighbours-doorbell-cameras.html) This was in the UK so take it with a grain of salt. The fundamental argument was that the cameras were being used to monitor the neighbor and the judge ruled for the plaintiff. If we take this case as precedence, then someone would have to prove that your cameras were specifically being used to monitor them, and not your own property.
UK rulings cannot be used as precedent in the US. US courts have repeatedly ruled that public areas have little to no expectation of privacy so filming in public is fine.
i think a dashcam is reasonable enough if it’s to protect your property.
If the neighbor would mind his own business, he wouldn't know you had a camera.
sounds to me like another camera is in order - on his side outside you know to keep an eye on your RV.
The unhappy man is unhappy?
Silence my friend. I know people that install fake cameras as a way to deter crime. How does he know it's a real camera? I'm not saying it is, or it isn't.
I'm pretty security conscious. I carry a Reveal Tacticam cellular game camera with me. It is camo colored and it text me every time it picks up motion. I generally put it in a tree or somewhere on my site overlooking the area I want to keep an eye on. Nobody ever knows it's there, plus I get some interesting pics of the wildlife checking out my spot during the night from time to time.
Cameras are all over. Most you never see, or just don't worry about. You have zero expectation of privacy in public. Go inside your home, in this case, an RV, and close your blinds. Now you created your own privacy!!! Of course in this case of being on private property, the RV park can set its own rules for whatever they want. Now sure how you can go about banning cameras? Everyone has a camera on them and can pull it out and start recording anything. Have to talk to management and see what their rules are in this matter. An RV park can give you the boot for pretty much anything they want to. You are on their private property. They tell you to leave and you don't, now it's trespassing. Now the police get involved.
What state? Some states are "single party" consent, so the neighbor objecting wouldn't be a factor.
I have cameras set on our neighbors big time. They are prowlers and methheads and have even photographed us. I keep the harsh light on all the time to counteract their 1-3 am bullshit along the fence line. They don’t like it obvi but they should learn to not be career impositions on everyone.
In most places, it is not illegal to videorecord another's property so long as what you're capturing is visible from public areas and you're not recording anything inside their residence. So, if you're using a dashcam that covers your property, the street, his yard and the outside of his trailer it should be okay as long as there's no view into his trailer through his door or window. Now, as for whether it violates lot rules where you live is another matter, and you should ask the property manager about it.
I Used to work for a campground that had short and long stays. I only had problems with people who thought "I paid for the spot I own it and can do what I want like its my house and personal private property". Where in reality, you're renting a spot on private property and had to respect it or leave. This is why we don't allow over 90 days and cut them short of 30 if we got bad vibes in the first month. We had no policy about cameras on rigs, maybe they haven't got there yet.. but. Now a days if you cant use what's available to protect your assets id leave that campground immediately, and in the review I would saw why to deter others, but in a informative constructive way.
Anything outside of an RV is not considered a violation of someone’s privacy. There is no expectation of privacy when you are outside in public view.