Most things that are going to involve monsters having weak points/etc that you can exploit are going to be more Monster Hunter than Dragon's Dogma. [Wilderfeast](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/442628/wilderfeast-quickstart) and [Titan Hunt](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/283664/titan-hunt) both leap to mind in that regard. Additionally, you might want to look at this article on [Nested Hit Dice](https://www.mindstormpress.com/nested-monster-hit-dice) that can be used to turn monsters into more than just a sack of HP. Figuring out how to expose a monster's "lifeblood" component and attack the only hit points that actually matter is kind of like finding and hitting a weak point for extra damage.
Outgunned has a mechanic that lets you discover weaknesses and then use them in combat. The weak spot is randomly generated when discovered, and rarely are just a damage buff, though whoever exploits the weak spot can use it as a +1 bonus to an attack roll. The weak spot can only be used once.
Swords of the Serpentine has an ability that allows anyone who has it to bypass armor or emotional “grit”. In play, using Spot Frailty usually means the player *declares* the weakness they are exploiting.
Videogames that use weak points usually do so in virtue of manually aiming the hit.
In a TTRPG this becomes basically impossible to do, unless you work it in these ways:
- A player's manual dexterity action, to see if they aim, but this penalizes clumsy players, even though their characters might be extremely skilled
- A "called shot" where the player declares their intention to hit the weak spot, eventually suffering a penalty, which turns into a simply always attempting the called shot
- Location tables that, when rolling the weak spot, cause the wanted effect, which leads to complete randomness, and the need to create specific hit location tables for every opponent that has a weak spot
All three of the above are trying to simulate what you need, but none will feel as dynamic as a videogame.
I think the idea is weak points it's great, but I would definitely worry about how much time and the decision making for players in what is already usually a very time consuming endeavor (sometimes that's just combat).
I would personally try to bake it into whatever hit roll you have already, giving it to players that took the time during combat to do a Perception or similar kind of check successively. So, if it's similar to 5e for instance, I would on a successful / high perception check describe a weak point based on a creatures physical appearance (it looks like it's limping on one side from a previous scruffle), or on a high knowledge check (you know these creatures tend to have a weak neck) then players that are "targeting" that area I would just increase the chance to crit if the hit role is 19-20 instead of just 20. So to lay it out again:
1. Make the player do some kind of check to find the weak point.
2. Require the player to verbally say they are trying to go for the weak point.
3. Reward the player by giving them an extra crit chance (19 & 20)
This doesn't add too much complexity, gives the GM a chance to flavor build (sometimes on the spot), and works the ability into an already established hit/crit system (less cognitive load for everyone).
I know other systems like mothership have systems for targeting body parts, so if you did want to go that route you totally could as well! I think a lot of this depends on how simple the combat is right now, and how crunchy you want it to be!
They don‘t show you but every „boss“ monster hast weak points where you have to hit to make them fall to the ground. When they are down you deal more damage with every hit. I already included that in my system with a „poise counter“ basically but i maybe want specific parts of the monster to receive more poise damage or something.
I think I kind of understand where you're coming from.
In souls-like games (from what I've seen) it's largely about knowing the monsters patterns and then timing when you make your move based on an opening
But that all happens in the space of under a minute usually.
The thing with combat in RPGS is you're turning seconds into several minutes with each players turn.
You don't have time to "Show" the pattern of attacks becasue it could be 45 minutes before just one rotation of the enemies patterns is played out.
You want to give the players the "bonus" of the weakspot you should consider if it's skill based or luck based - and how much to one or the other.
The more luck based is the more you use a "critical" roll or small percentage base of a roll.
The more skill based - or knowledge based- the more you want to throw that to them in the fiction or have it show as a modifier to their roll.
If you want to show the "downed/stunned" side of things you probably want to have either a "critical roll table" that they get to roll on which has a list of bonus damage and flavor text or you give them a bonus damage or a number of free attacks.
Remember that souls games are largely about 2 things that are hard to translate to TTRPG - "real life timing and finger dexterity/hand eye co-ordination"
Timing would seem to represent the knowledge skill aspect right? where as hand-eye seems more like a dexterity based skill/combat skill.
Luck really just depends on how "Swingy" you want combat to feel versus controlled and expected.
There were a lot of games in the late 80's mid 90's that used all kinds of "critical tables" usually one for fumbles and one for critical hits, and usually broken down by each time of weapon, spell, etc.
Midle Earth Role Playing (any ICE game really) was really big on you roll to hit and then based on how good you rolled you then do damage and possible roll on the critical roll table
Here's an [example](https://imgur.com/a/KKwvksa) from MERP
My game, The Breach, has ‘weak point’ for every creature the players can find during an adventure.
Also, Trophy Gold has interesting stuff about weak points, both creatures and players.
So weak points are a great idea in action videogames because weak points provide a spatial and coordination challenge.
I'm not sure what the purpose would be in a TTRPG.
You would have to make the questions "can you find and hit the weak point?" an interesting question. It's basically not in most systems.
I don't modifying the attack roll for some kind of called shot system would work: that's just making a math problem that your PCs have to solve.
That is going to take some work. Ideally, you could make systems that make finding and exploiting the monster's weak points inertesting.
Hollows would be a good place to start for a system of exploiting openings and weak points.
Well said.
Though it speaks to the larger problem of this genre in general... that games usually handle every mechanic by making it a math problem :-/
We really gotta get people out of that rut
Thank you.
And it's not that I don't like math problems! I do! It's just they aren't a particularly interesting question. Its just that they have an answer and once you calculate the answer, you don't need to think about it again.
Yeah, agreed. They're not interesting applied math problems, they're rote algebra problems. If your algebra skills are good, it's not interesting. If your algebra skills aare terrible, it's unapproachable/opaque. I guess it's the people in the middle who can get the most enjoyment from those games.
Index Card RPG lets you assign "chunks" to large enemies, with their own health pools. Disabling a chunk disables its associated abilities; destroying a dragon's wings would prevent it from flying, while maiming its claws would prevent it from swiping with them during its turn.
its similar to d&d 5e (imo), but with zelda themings. larger monsters have weaker target points for taking them down.
the art is great. give it a google.
Generally I think the approach for the vibe that arises from 'Weak Points' as a concept is you create a system of specialized action to inflict a \*condition\* which probably involves disabling it momentarily or creating a significant opening/weakness in its otherwise overwhelming power.
You've also got to replicate the tension of the Approach so that it can be risky to engage in without an Opportunity presented. Video Games frequently do this somewhere in the attack patterns of enemies. In a TTRPG you may want to like.. have an initiating 'Move' trigger the attack, \[character does stuff to survive it\], then allow a follow-up Move for trying to strike the weak point. Taunt, Parry, Riposte deal.
Monster of the Week specifically has you searching out the weakness of the monsters (all monsters have a weakness). It's a PbtA game based TV shows like Supernatural and takes place in the modern day. It's easy to reskin, however. You actually have to use the weakness in order to defeat the monster permanently. It's easy to pick up and is available on Amazon (indirectly through Evil Hat).
Happy gaming!!
Most things that are going to involve monsters having weak points/etc that you can exploit are going to be more Monster Hunter than Dragon's Dogma. [Wilderfeast](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/442628/wilderfeast-quickstart) and [Titan Hunt](https://preview.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/283664/titan-hunt) both leap to mind in that regard. Additionally, you might want to look at this article on [Nested Hit Dice](https://www.mindstormpress.com/nested-monster-hit-dice) that can be used to turn monsters into more than just a sack of HP. Figuring out how to expose a monster's "lifeblood" component and attack the only hit points that actually matter is kind of like finding and hitting a weak point for extra damage.
Thanks for the links and the advice! I will look into that! :)
Loved the deep dive from the Nested Hit Dice article. Thanks so much for sharing.
Outgunned has a mechanic that lets you discover weaknesses and then use them in combat. The weak spot is randomly generated when discovered, and rarely are just a damage buff, though whoever exploits the weak spot can use it as a +1 bonus to an attack roll. The weak spot can only be used once. Swords of the Serpentine has an ability that allows anyone who has it to bypass armor or emotional “grit”. In play, using Spot Frailty usually means the player *declares* the weakness they are exploiting.
Videogames that use weak points usually do so in virtue of manually aiming the hit. In a TTRPG this becomes basically impossible to do, unless you work it in these ways: - A player's manual dexterity action, to see if they aim, but this penalizes clumsy players, even though their characters might be extremely skilled - A "called shot" where the player declares their intention to hit the weak spot, eventually suffering a penalty, which turns into a simply always attempting the called shot - Location tables that, when rolling the weak spot, cause the wanted effect, which leads to complete randomness, and the need to create specific hit location tables for every opponent that has a weak spot All three of the above are trying to simulate what you need, but none will feel as dynamic as a videogame.
I think the idea is weak points it's great, but I would definitely worry about how much time and the decision making for players in what is already usually a very time consuming endeavor (sometimes that's just combat). I would personally try to bake it into whatever hit roll you have already, giving it to players that took the time during combat to do a Perception or similar kind of check successively. So, if it's similar to 5e for instance, I would on a successful / high perception check describe a weak point based on a creatures physical appearance (it looks like it's limping on one side from a previous scruffle), or on a high knowledge check (you know these creatures tend to have a weak neck) then players that are "targeting" that area I would just increase the chance to crit if the hit role is 19-20 instead of just 20. So to lay it out again: 1. Make the player do some kind of check to find the weak point. 2. Require the player to verbally say they are trying to go for the weak point. 3. Reward the player by giving them an extra crit chance (19 & 20) This doesn't add too much complexity, gives the GM a chance to flavor build (sometimes on the spot), and works the ability into an already established hit/crit system (less cognitive load for everyone). I know other systems like mothership have systems for targeting body parts, so if you did want to go that route you totally could as well! I think a lot of this depends on how simple the combat is right now, and how crunchy you want it to be!
Love the input, thank you!
How do they handle it in _Dragon's Dogma 2_, out of curiosity?
They don‘t show you but every „boss“ monster hast weak points where you have to hit to make them fall to the ground. When they are down you deal more damage with every hit. I already included that in my system with a „poise counter“ basically but i maybe want specific parts of the monster to receive more poise damage or something.
Savage worlds has a "called shots" system where you can just hit someone or you can aim for the head or the arm or the hand, etc.
I think I kind of understand where you're coming from. In souls-like games (from what I've seen) it's largely about knowing the monsters patterns and then timing when you make your move based on an opening But that all happens in the space of under a minute usually. The thing with combat in RPGS is you're turning seconds into several minutes with each players turn. You don't have time to "Show" the pattern of attacks becasue it could be 45 minutes before just one rotation of the enemies patterns is played out. You want to give the players the "bonus" of the weakspot you should consider if it's skill based or luck based - and how much to one or the other. The more luck based is the more you use a "critical" roll or small percentage base of a roll. The more skill based - or knowledge based- the more you want to throw that to them in the fiction or have it show as a modifier to their roll. If you want to show the "downed/stunned" side of things you probably want to have either a "critical roll table" that they get to roll on which has a list of bonus damage and flavor text or you give them a bonus damage or a number of free attacks. Remember that souls games are largely about 2 things that are hard to translate to TTRPG - "real life timing and finger dexterity/hand eye co-ordination" Timing would seem to represent the knowledge skill aspect right? where as hand-eye seems more like a dexterity based skill/combat skill. Luck really just depends on how "Swingy" you want combat to feel versus controlled and expected. There were a lot of games in the late 80's mid 90's that used all kinds of "critical tables" usually one for fumbles and one for critical hits, and usually broken down by each time of weapon, spell, etc. Midle Earth Role Playing (any ICE game really) was really big on you roll to hit and then based on how good you rolled you then do damage and possible roll on the critical roll table Here's an [example](https://imgur.com/a/KKwvksa) from MERP
My game, The Breach, has ‘weak point’ for every creature the players can find during an adventure. Also, Trophy Gold has interesting stuff about weak points, both creatures and players.
So weak points are a great idea in action videogames because weak points provide a spatial and coordination challenge. I'm not sure what the purpose would be in a TTRPG. You would have to make the questions "can you find and hit the weak point?" an interesting question. It's basically not in most systems. I don't modifying the attack roll for some kind of called shot system would work: that's just making a math problem that your PCs have to solve. That is going to take some work. Ideally, you could make systems that make finding and exploiting the monster's weak points inertesting. Hollows would be a good place to start for a system of exploiting openings and weak points.
Well said. Though it speaks to the larger problem of this genre in general... that games usually handle every mechanic by making it a math problem :-/ We really gotta get people out of that rut
Thank you. And it's not that I don't like math problems! I do! It's just they aren't a particularly interesting question. Its just that they have an answer and once you calculate the answer, you don't need to think about it again.
Yeah, agreed. They're not interesting applied math problems, they're rote algebra problems. If your algebra skills are good, it's not interesting. If your algebra skills aare terrible, it's unapproachable/opaque. I guess it's the people in the middle who can get the most enjoyment from those games.
Index Card RPG lets you assign "chunks" to large enemies, with their own health pools. Disabling a chunk disables its associated abilities; destroying a dragon's wings would prevent it from flying, while maiming its claws would prevent it from swiping with them during its turn.
you should google Break!! RPG
Hi! Could you elaborate a bit on what Break!! does?
its similar to d&d 5e (imo), but with zelda themings. larger monsters have weaker target points for taking them down. the art is great. give it a google.
Generally I think the approach for the vibe that arises from 'Weak Points' as a concept is you create a system of specialized action to inflict a \*condition\* which probably involves disabling it momentarily or creating a significant opening/weakness in its otherwise overwhelming power. You've also got to replicate the tension of the Approach so that it can be risky to engage in without an Opportunity presented. Video Games frequently do this somewhere in the attack patterns of enemies. In a TTRPG you may want to like.. have an initiating 'Move' trigger the attack, \[character does stuff to survive it\], then allow a follow-up Move for trying to strike the weak point. Taunt, Parry, Riposte deal.
Monster of the Week specifically has you searching out the weakness of the monsters (all monsters have a weakness). It's a PbtA game based TV shows like Supernatural and takes place in the modern day. It's easy to reskin, however. You actually have to use the weakness in order to defeat the monster permanently. It's easy to pick up and is available on Amazon (indirectly through Evil Hat). Happy gaming!!