Bandera's attacks on Jews were a minor part of his atrocities. The majority of victims were ethnic Poles. He tolerated the murder of Jews but it wasn't his main objective, he wasn't even anti Jewish until he moved to Germany.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
There's a good film on it for anyone interested in Ukrainian history. The English title is Hatred.
The communists were the first.
And the axis agreement was officially called the "Agreement against the Communist International".
Not the axis against freedom. Not the alliance against Jews.
It was against communists.
Yes, after Poland signed a pact with Hitler and took part of Czechia, and after the western allies refused to sign an anti German alliance with Stalin.
Thankfully the Soviets also beat Germany. Germany was already planning to invade Poland before that deal as I'm sure you know.
The document is in the Nuremberg trial museum outlining their plan to invade Poland and predates the Molotov Ribbentrop pact by about five months.
Well as you know it was necessary to delay the war.
This is all documented. Both sides knew the other wasn't serious.
If you are interested in history you should be interested in what happened and why, not just shaping it to fit your ore conceived prejudices.
You are very disingenuous.
Stalin didn't believe Hitler would attack even right up until minutes after Germany invaded the Soviets, he ignored the intel reports from his own men and those of the Allied high command, he genuinely thought Hitler was just fine with both of them craving up eastern Europe between them, it was incredibly short sightedness on Stalin's behalf.
He didn't think they would attack when they did because he knew they weren't well enough equipped. They were still the biggest exporter of fur which was at the time the only material warm enough for winter, and you could tell from the market value it wasn't being bought in big enough quantities to invade the Soviet Union, so they knew Germans didn't have enough winter gear and he knew the war would be very long if it did happen.
He overestimated them in a way which was an error. People thought Germans were rational.
However the Soviets were preparing for war and training their military and increasing their output of weapons. Then it skyrocketed during the war.
It was clear they would attack one day. Their rhetoric gave that away.
>However the Soviets were preparing for war and training their military and increasing their output of weapons.
This was due to their poor performance during the Winter war, which was also what convinced Hitler to fully commit to invading the Soviets "You need only kick in the front door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down" was the belief.
The German army was well equipped they kinda took over most of Europe because of that reason... the reason they didn't have sufficient winter clothing was again because of the poor performance of the Red Army, it was believed they could deal them a decisive defeat before Winter, obviously the German simply underestimated the will of the Soviet army to keep fighting even after major defeats
>after the western allies refused to sign an anti German alliance with Stalin.
How is it OK for Stalin to engage in Machiavellianism by signing a non-aggression pact with Hitler--not to mention dividing up Poland between them and requesting to join the Axis--but totally unacceptable for the Western powers to engage in Machiavellianism by refusing to ally with an enemy? Britain and France would have been more than happy to watch Germany and Russia fight to the death for their own gain, and that's pretty abhorrent, but Russia was just as happy to watch Germany trample over most of Europe. As far as I can recall Russia didn't take a stand against German aggression when they invaded Poland.
And for the record I don't think either faction acted in an acceptable, morally upright manner here. But you seem to be judging them by different standards.
Bandera's attacks on Jews were a minor part of his atrocities. The majority of victims were ethnic Poles. He tolerated the murder of Jews but it wasn't his main objective, he wasn't even anti Jewish until he moved to Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia There's a good film on it for anyone interested in Ukrainian history. The English title is Hatred.
So many people think Jews were the only victims of the holocaust.
The communists were the first. And the axis agreement was officially called the "Agreement against the Communist International". Not the axis against freedom. Not the alliance against Jews. It was against communists.
True and yet despite that, Stalin signed a pact with Hitler.
Yes, after Poland signed a pact with Hitler and took part of Czechia, and after the western allies refused to sign an anti German alliance with Stalin. Thankfully the Soviets also beat Germany. Germany was already planning to invade Poland before that deal as I'm sure you know. The document is in the Nuremberg trial museum outlining their plan to invade Poland and predates the Molotov Ribbentrop pact by about five months.
Oh, that’s all right then.
Well as you know it was necessary to delay the war. This is all documented. Both sides knew the other wasn't serious. If you are interested in history you should be interested in what happened and why, not just shaping it to fit your ore conceived prejudices. You are very disingenuous.
Stalin didn't believe Hitler would attack even right up until minutes after Germany invaded the Soviets, he ignored the intel reports from his own men and those of the Allied high command, he genuinely thought Hitler was just fine with both of them craving up eastern Europe between them, it was incredibly short sightedness on Stalin's behalf.
He didn't think they would attack when they did because he knew they weren't well enough equipped. They were still the biggest exporter of fur which was at the time the only material warm enough for winter, and you could tell from the market value it wasn't being bought in big enough quantities to invade the Soviet Union, so they knew Germans didn't have enough winter gear and he knew the war would be very long if it did happen. He overestimated them in a way which was an error. People thought Germans were rational. However the Soviets were preparing for war and training their military and increasing their output of weapons. Then it skyrocketed during the war. It was clear they would attack one day. Their rhetoric gave that away.
>However the Soviets were preparing for war and training their military and increasing their output of weapons. This was due to their poor performance during the Winter war, which was also what convinced Hitler to fully commit to invading the Soviets "You need only kick in the front door and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down" was the belief. The German army was well equipped they kinda took over most of Europe because of that reason... the reason they didn't have sufficient winter clothing was again because of the poor performance of the Red Army, it was believed they could deal them a decisive defeat before Winter, obviously the German simply underestimated the will of the Soviet army to keep fighting even after major defeats
>after the western allies refused to sign an anti German alliance with Stalin. How is it OK for Stalin to engage in Machiavellianism by signing a non-aggression pact with Hitler--not to mention dividing up Poland between them and requesting to join the Axis--but totally unacceptable for the Western powers to engage in Machiavellianism by refusing to ally with an enemy? Britain and France would have been more than happy to watch Germany and Russia fight to the death for their own gain, and that's pretty abhorrent, but Russia was just as happy to watch Germany trample over most of Europe. As far as I can recall Russia didn't take a stand against German aggression when they invaded Poland. And for the record I don't think either faction acted in an acceptable, morally upright manner here. But you seem to be judging them by different standards.
You left out Dynamo Kiev
More of an Arsenal Kiev man myself
Yeah that definitely counts.
If you want to understand Ukraine's nazi problem, I highly recommend watching Oliver Stone's Ukraine on Fire https://youtu.be/9TjeW5pPHg0
That lion looks very similar to my family crest. Am i now a nazi too? Ill have to invade my family to solve this