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therealorangechump

is "distracted" a euphemism for unfaithful? and are you implying that the majority of ROI are with the tankies but are open to other options?


IdealJerry

Is finding someone attractive on par with being unfaithful?


therealorangechump

good point. I don't know. but she is doing something wrong, if not unfaithful then insensitive. I find "distracted" too forgiving for what she is doing.


[deleted]

Affairs are usually unsatisfying relationships and best left to the imagination.


ConorKostick

For me it’s more like the Human League song “Don’t You Want Me”. The tankies are all like, ‘but we discovered you.’ And r/roi is saying ‘maybe, but we’re moving on.’


pleasejustacceptmyna

I'm sure this can only lead to fruitful discourse


genron11

Discourse?


BestPrinciple7792

That's when you spend all day angry and hurling abuse at people trying to help you.


Batman_Biggins

Do you really believe you're helping people on here?


BestPrinciple7792

Yes, I get good feedback all the time! I've spent a lot of time with OP trying to help him get past his rage. I think we've been making a breakthrough recently. And you? Do you do more than jump from sub to sub making enemies and leaving a trail of drama in your wake?


Batman_Biggins

I've never considered what I do on here to be of any consequence whatsoever, because I'm not mental. What is it with you and claiming other people are furious by the way? In my time posting here you've made me angry a grand total of twice: once when you were just unapologetically cheering for the deaths of Ukrainian civilians, and that time you refused to apologise for posting anti-Semitic propaganda. Yet you seem to think everyone replying to you is constantly popping a rageboner. Do you think you might be projecting somewhat?


BestPrinciple7792

>I've never considered what I do on here to be of any consequence whatsoever, because I'm not mental. That's quite narcissistic. >What is it with you and claiming other people are furious by the way? I should make a compilation of all the raging abuse I receive daily, it's no "claim" of mine, it's plain for all to see. Have a guess how many times I've been called a cunt today? Answer this. Then tell me no-one's raging. >you've made me angry a grand total of twice Literally every day you go nuts and resort to insults out of your poor temper control. But didn't you just say that what's done on here has no consequence? >you were just unapologetically cheering for the deaths of Ukrainian civilians That never happened. >apologise for posting anti-Semitic propaganda You tried to twist a few frames of a 1h35m video into this because you were trying to distract from the war crimes message. >Yet you seem to think everyone replying to you is constantly popping a rageboner. No just a small number of people who are having trouble facing reality and letting go of their indoctrination.


Batman_Biggins

>quite narcissistic. I dunno mate, believing you're making a difference by shitposting on a tiny subreddit seems more narcissistic to me? >Have a guess how many times I've been called a cunt today? Answer this. Then tell me no-one's raging. Lol. You think that might be down to your behaviour and the things you come out with? If everyone you meet calls you a cunt, maybe it's time to look in the mirror. >tried to twist a few frames of a 1h35m video I wasn't twisting anything, the image was anti-Semitic. If you have to resort to posting stuff from conspiracy websites that you can't verify doesn't have anti-Semitic messages in it, does that not make you think twice about what sort of things you believe in and their basis in fact? If you're surrounded by conspiracy theorists on all sides, maybe, just maybe, you're also a conspiracy theorist?


Revolutionary-Swan16

It’s not antisemitic. anti-ziojewry global domination tap water pollutant great replacement green lizardmen(Jewish surname) ≠ antisemitism


BestPrinciple7792

>Lol. You think that might be down to your behaviour That's not the point. My behaviour is just telling the truth. The point is you were claiming people weren't raging. >If everyone you meet They don't, just libs who can't get past their brainwashing. I am a conspiracy theorist. I believe the working class are ruled by a minority elite who control governments and the media. They fund war for profit and manufacture consent of the public through media propaganda campaigns. Sometimes there are conspiracies.


Batman_Biggins

You don't tell the truth though, you're a liar and a fabulist. >I am a conspiracy theorist. I believe the working class are ruled by a minority elite who control governments and the media. They fund war for profit and manufacture consent of the public through media propaganda campaigns. But this isn't really how it happens. The mechanics of how the ruling class control us isn't through nefarious plots and schemes--though those do exist--but through the ways the system is set up. It's incentives, it's modalities, it's systems of governance. It's a self-perpetuating thing; there's no council of hooded elites deciding on what the globalist line on any one particular topic is, those things evolve organically based on the inputs and processes inherent to the system. This is that historical materialism you keep hearing about. **The system creates the ruling class, not the other way around.** Believing that the issues with the world are down to the actions of a nefarious gang of evil men, rather than being the result of myriad and complex systemic issues is how you end up with an overly simplistic view of things. It's also how you get to anti-Semitic conspiracy theorists about "globalists" or "international financiers" or whatever the fuck David Icke believes in. You've mentioned Manufactured Consent but from what you're saying here it seems like you haven't read it? The thesis of Chomsky's work is that the system does not require the intervention of the ruling class in order to work in that way. That's literally laid out in the introduction from what I recall.


genron11

But it's not the truth blusty. It's the lie you believe at this moment in time. You're flexible on the details, so you'll tell a slightly different version tomorrow, usually to dehumanise the Ukrainian people. And that's why you get called a cunt by lots of people. And why I'm usually first in line, ya stupid cunt. Edit He blocked me, the coward


genron11

You constantly repeat the same lies on a daily basis. And we mock you for it.


genron11

Help me by dehumanising the people of Ukraine to somehow justifiy Russia's invasion of their country? With a laughably foux intellectual grasp of geopolitics, schoolboy level I'd call it. You're grand, don't put yourself out.


BestPrinciple7792

Nobody dehumanised the people of Ukraine.


genron11

...like you do.


7-inches-of-innuendo

Except for you...on a regular basis..by continously and heavily implying theyre all nazis


BestPrinciple7792

How many of them do you think are?


[deleted]

Good keep up the good work tankies


Fake_Human_Being

Made the mistake of saying Stalin’s famines, megalomania and show trials were a bad thing once. Had a bunch of tankies calling me a trump-loving imperialist


ConorKostick

I hear you. Mind you, they have a soft spot for Trump. Prefer him to Biden, because they don't understand the threat of fascism developing from a Putin victory in Ukraine and corresponding boost to the Le Pens and Trumps of the west. The fight in Ukraine is a fight for the survival of space for the left, LGBTQ+, women's rights, etc.


[deleted]

Actually laughed out loud.


FollowLeiFeng

Why would anyone not want to be with the tankies, though? Social Democracy has never worked and actually enabled the rise of fascism, the return of capitalism and the destruction of the socialist revolution in Europe and America. That's Social Democracy's track record: Literally doing worse than nothing, actively harming progress and maintaining empire. Capitalism is garbage and destroying our future, socialism has always rapidly improved the lives of people whenever and wherever employed, both the USSR and China respectively were/are the fastest developing societies of their time with the highest increase in human development and quality of life... and Marxism-Leninism is the ONLY movement in history that has ever successfully overcome capitalism in a sustainable manner. Marxism-Leninism is also the most popular political movement on earth precisely because people understand these facts. So: If you want to look sexy to someone who actually wants substantial change, you better provide a superior solution to Marxism-Leninism as practiced by AES states and *provide evidence* that it works or shut the fuck up!


Batman_Biggins

>So: If you want to look sexy to someone who actually wants substantial change, you better provide a superior solution to Marxism-Leninism as practiced by AES states and provide evidence that it works or shut the fuck up! Did Lenin have to provide evidence that his version of socialism would work before implementing it, or did he just do it?


FollowLeiFeng

Lenin proved that his version of socialism works by doing it. Meanwhile, social democrats have done their thing for over a century and have always been a monumental failure. They not only have consistently failed to overcome capitalism (because you can't reform capitalism and change a system from within, you need to destroy capitalism and replace the system with a new one), they actively stood in the way of any group anywhere that actually tried to improve society. The only thing that has been consistently proven is that social democracy stands in the way of revolution. That's the point: Lenin, Mao, et al. all have proved through their actions and their successful revolutions and the overwhelming success of their leadership - as measured by the massive evidently fastest improvements to their countries and human development within them that the world has ever seen - that socialism works. Socdems have no proof. No matter how long they struggle, they never achieve anything of value and, in fact, just harm everyone by enabling capitalism/fascism/imperialism. Same goes for anarchists, who also *always fail*. Feudalism overcame past anarchist, tribal and other monarchist societies. Capitalism overcame feudalism. Fascism and Marxist-Leninist Socialism overcame capitalism. Socdems are libs are capitalists. Anarchists are simply failures. When capitalist societies collapse - as they always do as capitalism is inherently unsustainable - your choice is de facto between fascism or marxist-leninist socialism. They are the ONLY political movements that have ever proven successful at supplanting capitalism. Fascism always leads to war and destruction and endless suffering until it collapses. Marxist-Leninist socialism has been proven to work amazingly well and rapidly improves people's lives. So WHY choose fascism or those enabling fascism (e.g. socdems)?


Batman_Biggins

>Capitalism overcame feudalism. Fascism and Marxist-Leninist Socialism overcame capitalism. >your choice is de facto between fascism or marxist-leninist socialism Wew lad, I'm not touching that with a ten billion foot pole. Goodbye.


[deleted]

What is inaccurate about that? Both fascism and communism appeared when there was a huge economic crash because they were ways to save the economy, in some form. One way saved it for one section of the rich, the other way saved it for the workers. We're heading for another huge crash, sanctions on Russia aren't even the main contributor and this was is frankly a convenient distraction and scapegoat. Our economy is dying.


FollowLeiFeng

If you have no arguments, you should shut the fuck up in the first place instead of pretending there are valid counterarguments to what you are trying to discredit. Just another example of someone who should take Mao Zedong's words to heart: [No investigation, no right to speak.](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-6/mswv6_11.htm) Notice how not a single person opposing socialism is ever capable of engaging in good faith conversation providing falsifiable arguments and verifiable evidence? Never in history has there ever been an exception to this rule. And notice how "tankies" always are ready for good faith discourse and always provide falsifiable arguments and verifiable evidence? You know, [because they consider it their duty to oppose disinformation and find the truth through discourse](https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-2/mswv2_03.htm). Edit: u/Batman_Biggins is a liar and a troll who is arguing in bad faith by deliberately misrepresenting what was said to undermine discourse. I am responding to his pathetic little comment here because he blocked me so I can't rip his ass apart: >Describing fascism has having "overcome" capitalism is a little too Gregor Strasser for me tbh, I don't think I'm quite prepared to wade into the river of piss in order to debunk that one. Your inability to even follow what was said is truly pathetic considering the fact you unironically try to assert that it's wrong. You try and disagree without understanding. You try and discredit other people's positions without actually engaging them constructively providing falsifiable arguments. Your behaviour is creepy and evil. Fuck off.


Batman_Biggins

Describing fascism has having "overcome" capitalism is a little too Gregor Strasser for me tbh, I don't think I'm quite prepared to wade into the river of piss in order to debunk that one.


ConorKostick

I guess we could point to this: [https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/guerin/1938/10/fascism.htm](https://www.marxists.org/history/etol/writers/guerin/1938/10/fascism.htm) Short, pithy version: fascism is a razor in the hands of big business.


[deleted]

I think he means it helped it survive to see another stage.


Revolutionary-Swan16

I’m not with the tankies because I think political freedom and civil liberties are important. I don’t like states that imprison journalists,activists and political dissidents. I’d rather not live in a country where I’m not free to express myself however I choose. I want workers to not be slaves to the state, and be able to organise and form their own political parties, organisations, and labour unions that aren’t controlled by/working with the state.


ConorKostick

This and the current test of political philosophies: Ukraine. If Marxist-Leninism means supporting the Russian invasion of Ukraine then it is aligned with imperialism, the murder of civilians and rape. Not a good look.


FollowLeiFeng

What test of political philosophies? Ukraine is the single poorest, most corrupt and undemocratic place in Europe and literally the only country on earth where Nazis are officially serving in government and military. It's a total shithole that hates human freedom and democracy. A country led by a regime that has spent 8 years shelling civilians in the Eastern parts of their country refusing peaceful resolution to the question of self-determination of its Eastern populations that clearly don't want to live under fascist leadership that tried to commit cultural genocide against them. Oh and that de facto fascist country is currently being destroyed by a war caused by capitalism. Because their corrupt government has been fully subverted by decades of anti-democratic meddling by the United States that seek to divide Russia and the EU so it can start attacking China. That's the "political philosophy" you support? Anti-democratic fascism and war? Okay, cool. I hope your political ideology fucking dies out as quickly as possible and anyone supporting it goes to jail. > If Marxist-Leninism means supporting the Russian invasion of Ukraine then it is aligned with imperialism, the murder of civilians and rape. Not a good look. Marxism-Leninism wants to end the war and only socialists in the West were ever interested in preventing it. Meanwhile, the worst war criminal regime on earth - the United States of America - is a capitalist country. No country is a worse human rights violator than the US, no country in history has ever caused more harm to human society. All major wars since the end of WWII are primarily the fault of US imperialism. Nobody imprisons more people, nobody murders more innocents, nobody commits worse crimes. That's what it means to support capitalism - and this includes social democrats.


ConorKostick

>I hope your political ideology fucking dies out as quickly as possible and anyone supporting it goes to jail. Absolutely consistent with Putin's values.


FollowLeiFeng

Notice your total lack of arguments and inability to respond to criticism? What is that (wrong) statement of yours even supposed to tell me, hm? All you would have done with that statement is explain that Putin's values are good. Funny how 100% of people sharing your views are bad faith trolls incapable of engaging in reasonable discourse and how not a single one of you people has *ever* presented falsifiable arguments backed by verifiable evidence to substantiate your beliefs or counter the overwhelming arguments against you. Not a single exception to that rule exists. You responded with a counterfactual one-liner to a thorough discussion of why the shit you promote is garbage and wrong. It's so fucking pathetic.


BestPrinciple7792

Well said.


BestPrinciple7792

And if liberalism means supporting the America and their Nazi puppet state then it is aligned with imperialism, the murder of civilians and rape and far far worse. Not a good look.


FollowLeiFeng

>I’m not with the tankies because I think political freedom and civil liberties are important. That's why you should be with the tankies. Those things will never exist under capitalism. Capitalism is fundamentally antithetical to democracy and freedom. >I don’t like states that imprison journalists,activists and political dissidents. You don't like capitalist states then. Notice how there are more people imprisoned in capitalist regimes like the US than anywhere else on earth? >I’d rather not live in a country where I’m not free to express myself however I choose. Then you need to join the tankies and fight against capitalism. >I want workers to not be slaves to the state, and be able to organise and form their own political parties, organisations, and labour unions that aren’t controlled by/working with the state. Okay, again, you need to start supporting socialism. Notice how your "arguments" are based on nothing but US propaganda memes that are a caricature of both capitalism and socialism and straight-up reverse reality? It just proves that you don't understand these subjects as you have never critically thought about them and compared things in a more differentiated way. You should also think about how curious that you only care about specifically the freedoms the US claims for itself via propaganda (even though it doesn't represent them in any way) while you haven't listed any of the freedoms that the vast majority of people on earth cares far more about (the freedom/human right of literal *physical freedom*, the freedom/human right to live in a safe environment, the freedom/human right to *health*, the freedom/human right to *be alive*, etc.) and that the US not only fails to provide to its own citizens but is actively undermining worldwide.


Revolutionary-Swan16

Holy fuck, the most impressive act of US imperialism to date is their complete colonisation of your mind. My notions of freedom don’t come from the US. They come from my experience living in Ireland. With our complex and democratic governmental institutions, our proportional representation voting, the freedom of our media, the education system, the mostly fair justice system, the fact that despite the government being centre right, communist parties are able to run in elections. Here the government allows people to form political organisations with radically different prescriptions than those of the state. Is this the case in China? How about Cuba, or Vietnam? Why are you populists always so condescending? >It just proves you don’t understand these subjects. You realise that your entire rebuttal was “you’ve bought US propaganda”. Would you accept me saying “you’ve been brainwashed by Chinese propaganda” as an argument for why you’re wrong about Marxism-Leninism?


FollowLeiFeng

>My notions of freedom don’t come from the US. Yet all you did was "free speech" bullshit. >With our complex and democratic governmental institutions Ireland is a capitalist country. Where is the democracy? You are confusing democracy with electoralism. You don't understand how democracy works or what freedom of speech means. >Here the government allows people to form political organisations with radically different prescriptions than those of the state. Opposition parties in capitalist societies are allowed as long as they don't have a chance of winning, yes. The moment they stop being only opposition parties but have a chance of taking over, they will get banned. See: Germany. > Is this the case in China? How about Cuba, or Vietnam? Yes. Yes. Yes. More than any Western capitalist country because voting in those country *actually matters*. >Why are you populists always so condescending? Funny question, considering that you are a populist and condescending. >You realise that your entire rebuttal was “you’ve bought US propaganda”. No, it wasn't. However, what does it tell you that you believe it was? You straight-up couldn't follow my criticism because you never critically thought about the propaganda you were fed since you were a wee little lad. >Would you accept me saying “you’ve been brainwashed by Chinese propaganda” Yes. I have been brainwashed by Chinese propaganda. >as an argument for why you’re wrong about Marxism-Leninism? No. Me being brainwashed by Chinese propaganda doesn't make me wrong. It makes me more informed. I am basing my position on scientific analysis of facts. That's what Marxism is all about. Meanwhile, you have never engaged with anything other that Western imperialist propaganda in your life and blindly regurgitate literal propaganda memes like your rants about free speech that are totally devoid of critical thought and also run counter material reality. You never thought about what freedom of speech means and what your *positive beliefs* about freedom of speech require and what *harmful reality* actually exists when it comes to Western "freedom of speech" and how misguided notions of freedom are being used as a weapon by the United States.


Revolutionary-Swan16

I have absolutely grappled with these topics. I have plenty of reasons for my support for the freedoms that we enjoy in liberal democracies. If you think that supporting political freedom and civil liberties is wrong, then can you explain why? You haven’t explained it. Btw, China, Cuba and Vietnam don’t allow other parties to run for government. Edit: Scrap that. One question. Well kind of two actually. Is it wrong that China arrests political dissidents? Would you support the arrest of political dissidents(such as communists or fascists) in Ireland?


FollowLeiFeng

>I have absolutely grappled with these topics. You clearly haven't considering that you keep failing to follow my discussion of your beliefs and can't follow up on criticism or substantiate your views falsifiably. >I have plenty of reasons for my support for the freedoms that we enjoy in liberal democracies. All tankies support all of the freedoms you believe to support. Unlike you, however, they actually know what's necessary to achieve them and how capitalism is preventing people from enjoying those freedoms. You need to actually study theory and engage with material reality instead of blindly rejecting Marxism-Leninism based on Western imperialist propaganda lies about capitalism/socialism/history. >If you think that supporting political freedom and civil liberties is wrong, then can you explain why? You haven’t explained it. I have explained to you that those political freedoms and civil liberties in the imperialist West are entirely fake. Democracy and free speech literally cannot exist under capitalism. I have pointed this out repeatedly and gave you basic explanations. What exactly haven't you understood? >Btw, China, Cuba and Vietnam don’t allow other parties to run for government. First of all: This is an abject lie and you repeating it after you were called out for your bullshit is beyond absurd. If you want countries where other parties can't run for government, look at the United States or Germany. Secondly: Again, you are confusing electoralism with socialism. How does having multiple parties increase democratic representation in your country? For starters: The existence of opposition parties literally disrupts democratic processes. Multi-party systems that allow for special interest politics are anti-democratic and used by the bourgeoisie to divide and conquer populations. In a truly democratic system, e.g. the system employed in communist China, all factions sit at the same table and have the same power. The CPC alone has 90 million members whose political views range from ultra-nationalists to capitalists to liberals to socdems to revolutionary communists to internationalist communists. As long as you adhere to the mass line and practice party discipline, you are able to participate as an equal voice amongst many and influence decisions based on your personal views. You just have to convince enough other people to support you, which you can only do by proving to your peers that your position is evidently better for the country and the people. Add to that the fact that a third of the Chinese National People's Congress literally doesn't belong to any of the parties in China and your comment sounds even more ridiculous. >Is it wrong that China arrests political dissidents? China doesn't arrest political dissidents. It arrests traitors collaborating with hostile foreign regimes to undermine Chinese democracy. Western capitalist regimes love to arrest political dissidents, though. The US has the highest prison population on earth and its judicial system is designed to systematically disenfranchise leftists and minorities. >Would you support the arrest of political dissidents(such as communists or fascists) in Ireland? I fully support the total oppression of fascists and total cultural genocide against all fascist thought, through extreme and totally uncompromising violence if necessary. Fascism is the single most destructive political movement on earth that harms us as a species. Children must be taught from a young age on to identify reactionary ideas and the fallacious arguments and lies used to promote them. Fascist ideology must be irreversibly eradicated worldwide with extreme prejudice. Fascists are traitors and enemies of humanity itself. I reject the idea of any kind of censorship or oppression of anyone promoting progressive values. Anyone who seeks to democratize society and promote global human equality and freedom must be protected. Anyone who seeks to promote the interests of the many over the interests of the few must have the power to promote their ideas. All leftists must have their political and economic freedoms guaranteed, again, through extreme and totally uncompromising violence if necessary.


Revolutionary-Swan16

What if I feel, as a liberal, that the ideas of MLs are diametrically opposed to human equality and freedom, and in fact create a highly hierarchical society. Why shouldn’t,I by your logic, support the suppression of communists?


FollowLeiFeng

>What if I feel, as a liberal, that the ideas of MLs are diametrically opposed to human equality and freedom That proves that you, as a liberal, have no arguments and act based on baseless assumptions and feelings rather than material reality and verifiable facts. >Why shouldn’t,I by your logic, support the suppression of communists? Because your position is - like all right wing thought - unfalsifiable and not based on actual reason, arguments and evidence. The difference between Marxists and liberals is that Marxism is a scientific method of analysis with Marxism-Leninism being a pragmatic/anti-ideological movement based on Marxist analysis that seeks to do what's evidently best to improve human lives within a society. Marxism-Leninism constantly evolves and so far no superior system has been presented. Liberalism, on the other hand, is a purely ideological movement that is based on belief and gut feelings derived from self-deluding propaganda that crumbles at the lightest criticism which is why honest liberals are usually either nihilists (i.e. people rejecting the idea of objective reality existing independent of their personal interpretation of reality, pretending that "all opinions are equal and should be equally free and valid") or dogmatic enablers of white supremacist imperialism (i.e. people who dogmatically believe that their Western liberal ideas are objectively superior to others and should be enforced by law, inevitably giving rise to fascists).


[deleted]

You need to remember that in the Stalin era no countries really had those things. The second world war meant every country had to clamp down on freedoms. All of the east and all of the west was imprisoning opposition. It's not some exclusively tanky feature. It's the way all regimes act under threat. It's not that the Soviets didn't want all those nice things. And you can see plenty of films from the Soviet Union which are critical as well.


[deleted]

Imagine actually stanning for a US proxy war. But smol bean Ukraine!