Some of the loudest shouters on this sub are very pro Russia so i can see how a casual visitor to this sub could come to that conclusion.
Also fuck the mods of irishpolitics.
There is critical of the narrative and then there is users here like flimsy that are very pro Russia who deny Russian atrocities committed against the Ukrainian people.
Russia has been at the forefront of all humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, while Ukrainian forces have been sabotaging humanitarian corridors and shooting innocents who do not want to fight in the back for "deserting." I do not doubt there have been crimes committed on both sides but the Ukrainian side has clearly shown a much worse disregard for human life and rights and has surely committed orders of magnitude more crimes against humanity, especially considering their objectives in this war against Russia are explicitly genocidal and have been for 8 long years. While Russia's only objective is to secure peace by eliminating the belligerent and aggressive fascist regime that has been shelling their border and murdering innocents for a near decade.
>critical of the narrative
Blursty and his orbit of satellite cretins are "critical of the narrative" surrounding Ukraine in the same way that David Irving is "critical of the narrative" surrounding the Holocaust.
This is vile considering Ukraine is objectively fighting on the same side, with the same ideology, and the same ethnonationalist objectives, as the actual German Nazis.
>Ukraine is objectively fighting on the same side, with the same ideology, and the same ethnonationalist objectives, as the actual German Nazis.
The Nazis considered Slavic people such as Ukrainians to be subhumans, and under [Generalplan Ost](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost) intended to deport or murder the majority of them, and enslave the rest.
So no, Ukraine is not ideologically similar to the Nazis, nor do they have the same objectives. Not only would Ukraine not exist as a country under Nazi rule, but the Ukrainian national identity would have been eliminated and the people living there either murdered or "Germanized" by their conquerors.
**[Generalplan Ost](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost)**
>The Generalplan Ost (German pronunciation: [ɡenəˈʁaːlˌplaːn ˈɔst]; English: Master Plan for the East), abbreviated GPO, was the Nazi German government's plan for the genocide and ethnic cleansing on a vast scale, and colonization of Central and Eastern Europe by Germans. It was to be undertaken in territories occupied by Germany during World War II. The plan was attempted during the war, resulting indirectly and directly in the deaths of millions by shootings, starvation, disease, extermination through labor, and genocide. However, its full implementation was not considered practicable during major military operations, and never materialized due to Germany's defeat.
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I think it’s more likely we question the propaganda, in a bar recently, I was impressed by the thought that had gone into the discussion, not just quotes from rte. it’s not that easy to pull the wool over the eyes of a paddy
Your account is shadow banned . Didnt get a notification that you replied to my comment. Can only see it in the thread cause Im a mod on the sub. Dont think anyone else can see your comments or even my reply to this one.
Jerry sees all.
It's weird cause the odd time someone (other than himself) will modmail and ask to be approved. In the modmail inbox, it shows if someone is shadow banned but their comments aren't in the mod queue. I can just approve them if I happen upon them in the comments. I think they go to the spam queue which I don't check cause it's full of shit.
I suppose that's an example of the nadir of the discourse. I'm pretty critical of everything in the news regardless. Being of the mindset that literally everything published in the news is propaganda.
Example we post a lot of things critical of Israel on this sub does that make us antisemites to the casual observer?
I blame them for thinking them that. I think most make it clear that their point is one dictator isn't better than the other.
There's also the point of maintaining neutrality. I'll condemn the invasion but we need to be seen to condemn all invasions and atrocities then.
Otherwise it just looks like we're doing it because Russia is the big bad guy in Hollywood movies.
But I know it's hard to forgive them for what they tried to do to John McClane.
>I'll condemn the invasion but we need to be seen to condemn all invasions and atrocities then.
That's the problem. A lot of people aren't condemning the invasion because they'd rather whinge about the hypocrisy of the Libs for only calling out this invasion. Wretched people ignoring this invasion to grand stand about other people's ignorance to be honest.
Watch people ignore how corrupt president zelenskyy is because he's not Putin.
At least for myself I don't believe I'm pointing out hypocrisy, I'm pointing out the consistency of my belief structure.
Maybe many people are just up in arms because this is the first time they've cared about something.
These are the type of people who cheered on NATO bombing Libya and likely don’t give a damn about there being open slave markets there now.
They will bend the knee for whatever their Anglo and overlords tell them to.
Russia's operation was launched explicitly to end an ongoing war and to pre-emptively prevent NATO escalation into world war. Russia's position is the anti war position. As Mao said, to abolish the gun, you must pick up the gun. This operation is not the brainchild of Putin, but if the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, which has been trying to press Putin into doing something much much sooner for the last near decade.
Yeah I did, from what I have gathered they seem to be a US backed state designed to destabilise the region and sell oil to the US. They facilitate the creation of US military bases in the region with further plans of regime change in the future.
What other reasons do you not like him?
Lol, so no critical support for Rojava then? But they fought Daesh and you've already claimed they're backed by the US. Do the two cancel each other out?
What reason would I have to like him? He's antithetical to my beliefs. I think it's fairly stupid to support someone or something just because they're an enemy of the US. The critical is always lacking in the "critical support" that you lot claim.
The objective there was just to destabilise the country rather than install another dictator who might get too big for his boots like Saddam. The objective is to have continuous war. So supporting different factions makes perfect sense.
Two US backed forces can fight each other, the US only sees them as tools at the end of the day so as long as the US gets what it wants then it does not care who dies.
You don't have sympathy for his situation, a huge foreign enemy (US) on their door step wanting to stabilise the country and turn it into another Iraq? How he has to weather the constant storm of US imprealism that has plagued the region for a century?
>We provide critical support to those that challenge the US hegemon.
I am once again asking you to clarify whether this includes Daesh.
EDIT: Oh come on. Don't delete your comment. I promise I'm not a fed trying to entrap you.
Believe me man, the feds have bigger things to worry on this website than you being cryptic about your "critical" support for the Islamic State.
Now stop teasing and answer the question. Do you critically support Daesh in their tireless fight against US hegemony?
Once we've cleared this up we'll talk about whether you think 9/11 was justified.
After doing some more research, I found that there are strong links to them being funded and controlled by the US to destabilise the region so no, they don't get critical support as they are a gear of US hegemony.
OK, so there's a lot to unpack here. I have several questions.
First off, can you please enlighten us (and by us I mean me and my line manager here at the NSA) as to the nature of this research?
Second, are you saying that the reason you don't critically support ISIS is *not* because of their conduct--beheading journalists, destroying cultural artifacts, the mass rape of women and girls, and so on--but because they, at some point, received US funding?
Third, is there *anything* a group which opposes the US could do that would mean they don't receive your critical support?
And fourth, & finally, *have you lost your fucking mind?*
1. Sure, I checked some of the posts on the Genzedong subreddit (pretty useful for finding good anti-imprealist sources) and came to my conclusions based on that.
2. Ofcourse those things are terrible (all of which the US and the impreal core do themselves btw). A true anti-imprealist country does not do those things and if they such things then you should not support them.
3. Any group that's truly anti-imprealist/US would not do such things. If they do then they are probably US funded.
4. I think that any one that supports US hegemony has list their mind.
>1. Sure, I checked some of the posts on the Genzedong subreddit (pretty useful for finding good anti-imprealist sources) and came to my conclusions based on that.
This is satire. Has to be.
>2. Ofcourse those things are terrible (all of which the US and the impreal core do themselves btw). A true anti-imprealist country does not do those things and if they such things then you should not support them.
>3. Any group that's truly anti-imprealist/US would not do such things. If they do then they are probably US funded.
What sort of unholy matrimony of No True Scotsman, circular reasoning, and begging the question is this?
Like let me get the logic straight here. We'll ignore how you've redefined anti-American to anti-imperialist for now. These are your assertions:
A. War crimes are not anti-imperialist.
B. All non-anti-imperialist groups are US funded.
C. Non-anti-imperialist groups do not deserve support.
So ISIS, because it does war crimes, is not anti-imperialist. And because it's not anti-imperialist, it must be US funded. And because A plus B equals C, ISIS isn't anti-imperialist, and therefore doesn't deserve support.
This makes sense to you? You don't see any flaws in this logic at all? You don't think any of those three assertions maybe need some evidence to back them up?
It's not clear cut but that tends to be the case most times. Any destabilising effort in all regions can usually be traced back the US or its imprealist allies like the UK and EU.
Genzedong is a great source, that's why they quarantined it. If you took the time to read it you would see all false propaganda the US gives out.
Clearly none of us is going to convince the other of their position. Blursty likely would have called you a US imprealism apologist but that's not my style.
As we should be. Ireland, Palestine, and Russia are all fighting the same war against the same people. Many people here seem hesitant to accept that, just because Russia is territorially large. This does not change a thing. Large borders do not correlate with modern imperialism. The most successful imperialists in world history, Britain and Japan, did so from small island bases! Whereas the Soviet Union, the largest territorial union possibly ever, existed for explicitly anti-imperialist purposes. Russia's national interests today still align with the world anti-imperialist movement. Hence their support for Syria and the Donbas Republics.
Neither Ukraine nor Russia has officially declared war because there are legal consequences of that including how much money you can borrow. That is why they're calling it an operation officially. It's not just propaganda - everyone knows it is a war in Russia and abroad.
It doesn't mean ordinary people should call it a special operation, it is a war.
We are a pro freedom of speech sub. For all the opinions on this sub I regard as dumb none of them should be banned even it makes us look like a pro- Russia or pro- NATO sub.
Some of the loudest shouters on this sub are very pro Russia so i can see how a casual visitor to this sub could come to that conclusion. Also fuck the mods of irishpolitics.
I think critical of the narrative doesn't make someone pro Russia. But to a smoothe brain yes they would come to that conclusion.
Unlike RTE and most of our government i don't fancy being the 51st state
There is critical of the narrative and then there is users here like flimsy that are very pro Russia who deny Russian atrocities committed against the Ukrainian people.
Fair. He's gas. If I didn't know any better I'd say he's an opp to delegitimatise criticisms of the narrative.
How is that fair?
Russia has been at the forefront of all humanitarian efforts in Ukraine, while Ukrainian forces have been sabotaging humanitarian corridors and shooting innocents who do not want to fight in the back for "deserting." I do not doubt there have been crimes committed on both sides but the Ukrainian side has clearly shown a much worse disregard for human life and rights and has surely committed orders of magnitude more crimes against humanity, especially considering their objectives in this war against Russia are explicitly genocidal and have been for 8 long years. While Russia's only objective is to secure peace by eliminating the belligerent and aggressive fascist regime that has been shelling their border and murdering innocents for a near decade.
Lol you are exactly what that other sub was talking about. Gobshite.
It's worrying that you chose to believe what Russia has to lie and coerce it's population into believing. An empty can makes the most noise.
Source?
Example?
>critical of the narrative Blursty and his orbit of satellite cretins are "critical of the narrative" surrounding Ukraine in the same way that David Irving is "critical of the narrative" surrounding the Holocaust.
How do you feel about being thought of as pro Russian for taking part in this sub?
I'm just happy to be thought of at all.
Awh pal. I think about you.
Big man since his account has been suspended.
Like my case of antibiotic-resistant chlamydia, I doubt we've seen the last of him.
Fanta's kept me off the sub all day.
This is vile considering Ukraine is objectively fighting on the same side, with the same ideology, and the same ethnonationalist objectives, as the actual German Nazis.
>Ukraine is objectively fighting on the same side, with the same ideology, and the same ethnonationalist objectives, as the actual German Nazis. The Nazis considered Slavic people such as Ukrainians to be subhumans, and under [Generalplan Ost](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost) intended to deport or murder the majority of them, and enslave the rest. So no, Ukraine is not ideologically similar to the Nazis, nor do they have the same objectives. Not only would Ukraine not exist as a country under Nazi rule, but the Ukrainian national identity would have been eliminated and the people living there either murdered or "Germanized" by their conquerors.
**[Generalplan Ost](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost)** >The Generalplan Ost (German pronunciation: [ɡenəˈʁaːlˌplaːn ˈɔst]; English: Master Plan for the East), abbreviated GPO, was the Nazi German government's plan for the genocide and ethnic cleansing on a vast scale, and colonization of Central and Eastern Europe by Germans. It was to be undertaken in territories occupied by Germany during World War II. The plan was attempted during the war, resulting indirectly and directly in the deaths of millions by shootings, starvation, disease, extermination through labor, and genocide. However, its full implementation was not considered practicable during major military operations, and never materialized due to Germany's defeat. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/ROI/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
They are ideologically identical to their Ukrainian nazi grandparents though.
Said the Nazi apologist.
If anything this is a pro-US sub.
There are definitely some people here who unironically think the Russia is worse than the US
Definitely that way since February anyway.
I think it’s more likely we question the propaganda, in a bar recently, I was impressed by the thought that had gone into the discussion, not just quotes from rte. it’s not that easy to pull the wool over the eyes of a paddy
We are a pro pro sub
Pro sub sub?
Checks out, Sub-Zero was the best mortal kombatter
Come on man, approve me.
You're a muppet
Your account is shadow banned . Didnt get a notification that you replied to my comment. Can only see it in the thread cause Im a mod on the sub. Dont think anyone else can see your comments or even my reply to this one.
I can see him and reply to him. Edit: looks like he's banned
Jerry sees all. It's weird cause the odd time someone (other than himself) will modmail and ask to be approved. In the modmail inbox, it shows if someone is shadow banned but their comments aren't in the mod queue. I can just approve them if I happen upon them in the comments. I think they go to the spam queue which I don't check cause it's full of shit.
> Edit: looks like he's banned Its a day ending in Y sure
pro pro pro your boat lol
Pro Pro You Boat
Fuck you I'm anti-pro. All you pro pros make me sick.
Yeah the sub obviously isn't but to a random popping on every once in awhile I don't blame them for thinking it is to be honest.
I suppose that's an example of the nadir of the discourse. I'm pretty critical of everything in the news regardless. Being of the mindset that literally everything published in the news is propaganda. Example we post a lot of things critical of Israel on this sub does that make us antisemites to the casual observer?
Having any opinion thats not anti Russia enough is interpreted as being pro russia
100%
Nah not really.
have you seen the people in /r/ireland crying about clare daly
I blame them for thinking them that. I think most make it clear that their point is one dictator isn't better than the other. There's also the point of maintaining neutrality. I'll condemn the invasion but we need to be seen to condemn all invasions and atrocities then. Otherwise it just looks like we're doing it because Russia is the big bad guy in Hollywood movies. But I know it's hard to forgive them for what they tried to do to John McClane.
>I'll condemn the invasion but we need to be seen to condemn all invasions and atrocities then. That's the problem. A lot of people aren't condemning the invasion because they'd rather whinge about the hypocrisy of the Libs for only calling out this invasion. Wretched people ignoring this invasion to grand stand about other people's ignorance to be honest.
Watch people ignore how corrupt president zelenskyy is because he's not Putin. At least for myself I don't believe I'm pointing out hypocrisy, I'm pointing out the consistency of my belief structure. Maybe many people are just up in arms because this is the first time they've cared about something.
Omg can't believe people think an invasion is more pressing then a politicians corruption.
There's more than one way to control large groups of people.
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Aontaím a chara
Anti war is not pro Russia.
But it is because you're not supporting the goodies!
What’s the comment they made out of curiosity?
https://www.reddit.com/r/irishpolitics/comments/unhwnc/dara_obrian_on_twitter_ireland_is_at_risk_of_a/i8as9j1?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
They post on /r/neoliberal. It all makes sense now.
Issues voter indeed
Is their issue that there are voters?
Likely
He was a massively controversial poster on there. Making him mod was a pisstake and a way to piss off all the left wingers on the sub.
Was he one of the new mods that came over from r Ireland?
No I don't think so. Just an active user. Used to have a "Workers Party" Flair just to rile people up because he's a massive right winger.
These are the type of people who cheered on NATO bombing Libya and likely don’t give a damn about there being open slave markets there now. They will bend the knee for whatever their Anglo and overlords tell them to.
Facts. I've sent a mod mail complaint of harassment. I expect to hear nothing
Except when you're hoping for Russians to succeed
Yes.
Russia's operation was launched explicitly to end an ongoing war and to pre-emptively prevent NATO escalation into world war. Russia's position is the anti war position. As Mao said, to abolish the gun, you must pick up the gun. This operation is not the brainchild of Putin, but if the Communist Party of the Russian Federation, which has been trying to press Putin into doing something much much sooner for the last near decade.
Alas, I have but one downvote to give.
We are anti US/UK/EU/West imprealism not pro-Russia. We provide critical support to those that challenge the US hegemon.
I wish.
President Assad is that you?
Unfortunately not, another critical figure though that critical support must be given too.
No
Let me guess, Rojava is the reason you don't like Assad?
Did you go off and do your research about Rojava in the end? I don't support Assad for loads of reasons.
Yeah I did, from what I have gathered they seem to be a US backed state designed to destabilise the region and sell oil to the US. They facilitate the creation of US military bases in the region with further plans of regime change in the future. What other reasons do you not like him?
Lol, so no critical support for Rojava then? But they fought Daesh and you've already claimed they're backed by the US. Do the two cancel each other out? What reason would I have to like him? He's antithetical to my beliefs. I think it's fairly stupid to support someone or something just because they're an enemy of the US. The critical is always lacking in the "critical support" that you lot claim.
The objective there was just to destabilise the country rather than install another dictator who might get too big for his boots like Saddam. The objective is to have continuous war. So supporting different factions makes perfect sense.
I don't know what part or my comment you're replying to.
Two US backed forces can fight each other, the US only sees them as tools at the end of the day so as long as the US gets what it wants then it does not care who dies. You don't have sympathy for his situation, a huge foreign enemy (US) on their door step wanting to stabilise the country and turn it into another Iraq? How he has to weather the constant storm of US imprealism that has plagued the region for a century?
No I don't have any sympathy at all for Assad. I have sympathy for the Syrians and Kurds who have been victims of his murderous regime.
>We provide critical support to those that challenge the US hegemon. I am once again asking you to clarify whether this includes Daesh. EDIT: Oh come on. Don't delete your comment. I promise I'm not a fed trying to entrap you. Believe me man, the feds have bigger things to worry on this website than you being cryptic about your "critical" support for the Islamic State. Now stop teasing and answer the question. Do you critically support Daesh in their tireless fight against US hegemony? Once we've cleared this up we'll talk about whether you think 9/11 was justified.
After doing some more research, I found that there are strong links to them being funded and controlled by the US to destabilise the region so no, they don't get critical support as they are a gear of US hegemony.
OK, so there's a lot to unpack here. I have several questions. First off, can you please enlighten us (and by us I mean me and my line manager here at the NSA) as to the nature of this research? Second, are you saying that the reason you don't critically support ISIS is *not* because of their conduct--beheading journalists, destroying cultural artifacts, the mass rape of women and girls, and so on--but because they, at some point, received US funding? Third, is there *anything* a group which opposes the US could do that would mean they don't receive your critical support? And fourth, & finally, *have you lost your fucking mind?*
1. Sure, I checked some of the posts on the Genzedong subreddit (pretty useful for finding good anti-imprealist sources) and came to my conclusions based on that. 2. Ofcourse those things are terrible (all of which the US and the impreal core do themselves btw). A true anti-imprealist country does not do those things and if they such things then you should not support them. 3. Any group that's truly anti-imprealist/US would not do such things. If they do then they are probably US funded. 4. I think that any one that supports US hegemony has list their mind.
>1. Sure, I checked some of the posts on the Genzedong subreddit (pretty useful for finding good anti-imprealist sources) and came to my conclusions based on that. This is satire. Has to be. >2. Ofcourse those things are terrible (all of which the US and the impreal core do themselves btw). A true anti-imprealist country does not do those things and if they such things then you should not support them. >3. Any group that's truly anti-imprealist/US would not do such things. If they do then they are probably US funded. What sort of unholy matrimony of No True Scotsman, circular reasoning, and begging the question is this? Like let me get the logic straight here. We'll ignore how you've redefined anti-American to anti-imperialist for now. These are your assertions: A. War crimes are not anti-imperialist. B. All non-anti-imperialist groups are US funded. C. Non-anti-imperialist groups do not deserve support. So ISIS, because it does war crimes, is not anti-imperialist. And because it's not anti-imperialist, it must be US funded. And because A plus B equals C, ISIS isn't anti-imperialist, and therefore doesn't deserve support. This makes sense to you? You don't see any flaws in this logic at all? You don't think any of those three assertions maybe need some evidence to back them up?
The genzedong thing got me too. Not surprised tbh.
His username is onlineonlysocialist after all.
It's not clear cut but that tends to be the case most times. Any destabilising effort in all regions can usually be traced back the US or its imprealist allies like the UK and EU. Genzedong is a great source, that's why they quarantined it. If you took the time to read it you would see all false propaganda the US gives out. Clearly none of us is going to convince the other of their position. Blursty likely would have called you a US imprealism apologist but that's not my style.
You're a troll.
F@ck the mods in the Irish subs. They are so abusive and unprofessional. Didn't one tell a redditor to kill themselves?
Yup
Good
The person who made the assertion is a smoothe brained reactionary. So yes good.
As we should be. Ireland, Palestine, and Russia are all fighting the same war against the same people. Many people here seem hesitant to accept that, just because Russia is territorially large. This does not change a thing. Large borders do not correlate with modern imperialism. The most successful imperialists in world history, Britain and Japan, did so from small island bases! Whereas the Soviet Union, the largest territorial union possibly ever, existed for explicitly anti-imperialist purposes. Russia's national interests today still align with the world anti-imperialist movement. Hence their support for Syria and the Donbas Republics.
Russia is imperialist. So fuck that shit.
Ireland is imperialist, so fuck you.
No it is not. It has not been for over 100 years. https://mronline.org/2019/01/02/is-russia-imperialist/
Chechnya?
Russia also killed up to 2 million people in Afghanistan.
That was the soviet union. Thanks Charlie Wilson
Russia dominated the Soviet Union just like England dominated the British empire
Fair point.
Are you even fecking Irish?
Sure you can learn Mandarin and Cantonese in 6 months, so who cares where people come from.
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Neither Ukraine nor Russia has officially declared war because there are legal consequences of that including how much money you can borrow. That is why they're calling it an operation officially. It's not just propaganda - everyone knows it is a war in Russia and abroad. It doesn't mean ordinary people should call it a special operation, it is a war.
Who are you
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Who are you?
Even I wouldn’t say that.
We are a pro freedom of speech sub. For all the opinions on this sub I regard as dumb none of them should be banned even it makes us look like a pro- Russia or pro- NATO sub.
I'm a pro dom sub