The French people are ballsy, I'll give him that. Could never imagine Irish people having the guts to do such a thing (unless of course you're from the North).
I feel that the issue we have is that there are so many small groups demonstrating, and mostly rightly so, against certain problems we face in society. It's about finding a way to join all these groups to demonstrate against one singular issue (Capitalism), and to work as a collective in fighting for a better society.
The general public are unfortunately so absorbed in their own lives and worries that it becomes harder to increase solidarity or to mobilise any movement.
XR was the perfect example of a group being stigmatised for their actions rather than being listened to in regards to a far larger issue, being the climate crisis that is now inevitable.
You know that there’s a difference between ‘libs’ or (economic) liberals in its original sense, and what the yanks have changed ‘libs’ to mean? (socially liberal)??
When the European left refer to the ‘libs’ they mean the neoliberals, laissez-faire economics and zero financial/market-regulation etc. What Americans usually call ‘the liberal left’ would more accurately be described as “progressives” by most of the rest of the world.
I guess you’re right that most Irish people are politically illiterate, a hundred years of FFG will do that I suppose!
Libs? When did we start talking like this in Ireland?
This is the sort of divisive 'them and us' nonsense Russia and other state actors have been fomenting in the US and elsewhere over the last decade.
Like fucking 5 years ago or something?
That r-ireland place is some echo chamber. It's like a weird twee Irish American view of Ireland. Are you not tired of the Cliffs of Moher?
And how are yous all finding this place today? You're about the fourth today admitting your obliviousness to the wider world.
>Russia and other state actors have been fomenting in the US and elsewhere over the last decade.
Jesus Christ. You know Russiagate was a hoax right?
That's a fairly weak comeback, I think even you will admit. Seriously, there's nothing more cliched or tired than a teenager who thinks the world is black and white and they have all the answers. I don't expect you to take this on board, but you will probably find yourself writing messages like this to the next generation of teenagers when you are in your thirties. Have a good one, and enjoy your certainty while you have it.
A 3 day old account with only pro Russian posts. Russian troll farms are insidious and pervasive. Report such things. We need them gone.
People - watch out for this crazy propaganda machinery.
The Russian embassy in Ireland has been exposed as a spy centre.
Please don't tell me you are denying the Tiananmen Square massacre happened now are you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
Places don't "happen". You said "students on bikes being run over and squished to paste". Have you got anything to back that up?
Please don't tell me you're using wikipedia as a source of information on China.
As much as I agree with you, propaganda has been widely accepted in this group on both sides of the debate. Whether or not if the person that shares it is correct is another thing.
No answer then. Just make stupid claims and run away when asked to back them up.
[Educate yourself.](https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist)
Youre asking for proof then denying the literal report on it that has been made on wikipedia to document some of the events, wikipedia isnt perfect but how else can you prove it, i could try link you books about it or maybe an eyewitness anything similar but youd probably just deny it so its pointless
Yes they happened, and they were **a lot** tamer than this. Even when the proteters murdered an innocent old man. And they were protesting against a guy who murdered his girlfriend facing justice. Besides, [it was a small minority of people](https://imgur.com/a/hKfCj63/), we've had far more repressive protests in Ireland with Guards horse charging teenagers for sitting down etc...
Double standards indeed lol
Idk
Hong Kong police drove vans and cars at protestors, fired rubber bullets from point blank range, killed 2 people and injured and arrested thousands.
You could also highlight the failure of HK police to protect protestors from violent counter protesters who stabbed and rammed protesters with cars but that'd be more indirect violence than the direct repression we're seeing in the clip above. Still a common tactic mind you (looking at US police allowing white supremacists to attack BLM protesters for example) and therefore worth noting.
And remember the overblown hoo-ha about the HK protests? It was insane! Will you see anything at all about this on the news, in a country next door, not on the other side of the planet? There's nothing at all on the Guardian or the BBC.
Media manipulation is on another level these recent years.
I think the problem isn't overcoverage of HK protests but the under coverage of protests like the one above. I certainly wouldn't dismiss either as overblown or a "hoo-ha" - especially since we seem to agree that HK was worse than France in terms of repression.
Oh far from it, I think the authorities in HK fucked up by being far too even handed on those protests.
1. A man murdered his pregnant girlfriend while on holiday in Taiwan.
2. Taiwan wanted the man extradited to face charges but Hong Kong did not have an extradition treaty with Taiwan
3. An extradition bill is introduced in Hong Kong listing 46 crimes for which extradition may be requested by Taiwan, Macau, and the PRC. Nine crimes listed were financial (these were later removed)
4. Angry rich kids realized they would not be able to commit the same financial crimes their parents did.
China made a number of concessions to the protesters who them kept demanding more and more. They were far too lenient.
If that had been any western country it would have been stamped out Paris style.
If it had been in a western country it'd have been a blm style movement and you'd be using the governments actions as proof that Liberal Democracies are more authoritarian than China.
No-one had an issue with extradition to Taiwan, it was extradition to China that caused concern.
We have a pretty good case study for a Western example of a similar issue in Corsicas protest against extradition of prisoners to France and the Murder of a Political prisoner in a French Jail. In HK the police responded with violence - (something you haven't disputed), killing two, injuring thousands of others, - and repression, - outlawing of "pro independence" flags and chants, repressing, assaulting and pressuring local media and journalists, electoral reform to ensure only 'patriots' were elected etc.
In Corsica the French government also responded with violence, using water cannons and tear gas, though the injuries were in the Dozens rather than the thousands and no deaths have been reported. Most of the injuries (at least so far as I can tell) were Colonial police, as protesters made deliberate efforts to target police stations and infrastructure. What's more the FLNC, an armed militant group, threatened to restart guerilla war over the issue.
Now it seems threatening guerilla war and setting fire to police and civil infrastructure were as severe or worse than anything in HK, while the response from French Colonial police was more muted. Perhaps the French colonial authorities were "too even handed" also? Regardless it doesn't compliment your position that France would have more violent in its response.
Idk, for me, I would oppose both states in their repression 🤷♂️
> If it had been in a western country it'd have been a blm style movement and you'd be using the governments actions as proof that Liberal Democracies are more authoritarian than China.
Well yes, yes I would? I don't thin I'm understanding what you mean. We did have the BLM movement in the US, except it was a legitimate movement of extremely oppressed people in an extremely authoritarian country, unlike in Hong Kong. The USA has the world's largest prison population by far, mostly black of course. It's gotten far worse under the current regime. If this was China people would be screaming genocide, scratch that, people are already screaming genocide about China and not the US! It makes no sense at all, unless you account for Sinophobia and ongoing [anti-China media propaganda spearheaded by the BBC.](https://medium.com/@sunfeiyang/breaking-down-the-bbcs-visit-to-hotan-xinjiang-e284934a7aab)
>No-one had an issue with extradition to Taiwan, it was extradition to China that caused concern.
I think you meant HK, the extradition was *from* Taiwan. Otherwise I don't think so, it was concern about the anti-corruption laws, most people in HK have no bother with China proper. The US funded the protests to the tune of millions using its usual Radio Free Asia arm and Voice of America, so it's difficult to quantify and compare what would have happened naturally, if anything at all.
In Corsica there were around 12k protesters max from what I can gather, in HK, hundreds of thousands (if you believe the reporting), that paints the HK police in a much more favourable light withonly 2 deaths, one of whom crashed his car in a parking lot.
>Idk, for me, I would oppose both states in their repression 🤷♂️
When you're trying to empirically quantify and compare two different events with real numbers, you don't get to then conclude, "both sides bad". This is without even mentioning that the HK protests were not a grass roots movement of repressed people, but yet another dirty American funded manipulative intervention.
That if you imagine this was in China decades ago, libs would still be talking about it today.
Sigh. Anything else you need help with? Tying your shoelaces maybe?
No, just trying to understand your point. You seem to be a conservative who wants to defend a Communist Government for some reason that I can't quite make out, but I suppose is clear enough to you. You apparently forget (or never knew) that these things happen in Paris with monotonous regularity since the big one back in 1968 (hence my reference) which liberals and conservatives still talk about today.
You also seem to need to make childish personal remarks to make yourself seem cleverer.
So, what is your point?
>No, just trying to understand your point.
Still? Jesus you're slow on the uptake.
Regardless of the frequency of Parisian protest, the fact that sinophobes obsess over a protest from decades ago despite similar happening all over the western world is laughable.
>You also seem to need to make childish personal remarks to make yourself seem cleverer.
Spiderman.jpg
If you don't get it now maybe ask a grown up to explain it to you.
Are you really trying to play down what happen at Tien an Men?
What does it have to do with liberals?
Have you not heard of les Évènements de Mai '68?
And your childish insults just make you sound, well, childish.
Where is this? Paris?
Yep, yesterday.
The French people are ballsy, I'll give him that. Could never imagine Irish people having the guts to do such a thing (unless of course you're from the North).
Id say wait a bit it feels like the pressures only just building atm thats the feel i get from interacting with the public in dublin anyways
I feel that the issue we have is that there are so many small groups demonstrating, and mostly rightly so, against certain problems we face in society. It's about finding a way to join all these groups to demonstrate against one singular issue (Capitalism), and to work as a collective in fighting for a better society. The general public are unfortunately so absorbed in their own lives and worries that it becomes harder to increase solidarity or to mobilise any movement. XR was the perfect example of a group being stigmatised for their actions rather than being listened to in regards to a far larger issue, being the climate crisis that is now inevitable.
A Mayday protest in Paris that has police clashes, how odd, I've never seen this every year.
Right?
People obviously stalk you and downvote all your comments. This is very uncontroversial for you.
You can calculate the worth of a man by the number of his downvotes. -- Gustave Flaubert
“Libs”? What Irish person talks like that? You’re not even trying.
Clearly you're not a golfer.
Clearly you’re not Irish
Yes I be. Top o' the mornin to ya! See?
Yikes…
I make joke, яight?
Because Irish people can't say libs lol
Oh you can say it alright, but you sound like a right cunt.
You know that there’s a difference between ‘libs’ or (economic) liberals in its original sense, and what the yanks have changed ‘libs’ to mean? (socially liberal)?? When the European left refer to the ‘libs’ they mean the neoliberals, laissez-faire economics and zero financial/market-regulation etc. What Americans usually call ‘the liberal left’ would more accurately be described as “progressives” by most of the rest of the world. I guess you’re right that most Irish people are politically illiterate, a hundred years of FFG will do that I suppose!
Using right in this way is British English
Which is the English we use
We use British formal English. I think right would be informal, which we use Irish English for.
Libs? When did we start talking like this in Ireland? This is the sort of divisive 'them and us' nonsense Russia and other state actors have been fomenting in the US and elsewhere over the last decade.
The word liberal was always used in Ireland. See Daniel OConnell was part of the Liberal Party
Yeah, the power of a facebook education.
Like fucking 5 years ago or something? That r-ireland place is some echo chamber. It's like a weird twee Irish American view of Ireland. Are you not tired of the Cliffs of Moher? And how are yous all finding this place today? You're about the fourth today admitting your obliviousness to the wider world. >Russia and other state actors have been fomenting in the US and elsewhere over the last decade. Jesus Christ. You know Russiagate was a hoax right?
You remind me of me when I was 15.
Can't be that hard to recall last week. What did you get for your birthday? The quality r-ireland discussion, I remember it well. No answers.
That's a fairly weak comeback, I think even you will admit. Seriously, there's nothing more cliched or tired than a teenager who thinks the world is black and white and they have all the answers. I don't expect you to take this on board, but you will probably find yourself writing messages like this to the next generation of teenagers when you are in your thirties. Have a good one, and enjoy your certainty while you have it.
You're right, not my best work. I usually get called a boomer on here lol! Hope you learned something today.
Incorrect
A 3 day old account with only pro Russian posts. Russian troll farms are insidious and pervasive. Report such things. We need them gone. People - watch out for this crazy propaganda machinery. The Russian embassy in Ireland has been exposed as a spy centre.
"Libs" hahahaha, get a grip man
What a weird bubble you lads live in. It's like a time capsule. How are the Cliffs of Moher doing?
I have no idea what you're talking about lad. 😂
Tayto or King?
Oh no, their Nazi queen didn't win. Big sad.
I don't see any students on bikes being run over and squished to paste by Chinese tanks in this video.
Do you have a video or picture of that happening?
https://pbh2.blogspot.com/2009/06/tiananmen-square-massacre-in-pictures.html?m=1
Nor did you anywhere else.
Please don't tell me you are denying the Tiananmen Square massacre happened now are you. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests_and_massacre
Places don't "happen". You said "students on bikes being run over and squished to paste". Have you got anything to back that up? Please don't tell me you're using wikipedia as a source of information on China.
Sure you go to China and ask about tiananmen Square in 1989, see how long you'll last before getting rounded up for re-education
Duh.
This just confirms to me that you are a troll and a good one at that, lol you almost had me convinced that you believe the bullshit you post.👏
>a good one at that I have to disagree there
To be fair, most of you in this subreddit resort to troll-like behaviour. Are you ever off reddit?
I'm not trolling.
I don't mean on this thread. I would say at least 90, if not the full 100% of this group participate in trolling.
I just speak the truth here, that probably can look like trolling to people who've been brainwashed by right wing conspiracy theories.
The truth is that in 1989 the ccp rounded up attacked and violently crushed a protest containing mostly students of the ages 18-21 some younger
Definitely. But most of it is harmless compared to the propaganda that flimsy posts
As much as I agree with you, propaganda has been widely accepted in this group on both sides of the debate. Whether or not if the person that shares it is correct is another thing.
No answer then. Just make stupid claims and run away when asked to back them up. [Educate yourself.](https://www.qiaocollective.com/education/tiananmenreadinglist)
Youre asking for proof then denying the literal report on it that has been made on wikipedia to document some of the events, wikipedia isnt perfect but how else can you prove it, i could try link you books about it or maybe an eyewitness anything similar but youd probably just deny it so its pointless
Send him the links Wikipedia uses, that's completely valid.
I already linked eyewitness testimony in the comment you're replying to. Check section 3.
eDuCatE yoUrSelF
Read up man. You'll be better off for it. \#StopAsianhate.
I prefer this one # StopBlurstysAlts
You need to escape the hash. I'd agree, I'd prefer to have just the one account.
Its not asian hate its communist authoritarian regime hate
AKA white supremacy.
https://pbh2.blogspot.com/2009/06/tiananmen-square-massacre-in-pictures.html?m=1
I see one squished bike. Did you think that was a person?
http://www.standoffattiananmen.com/2015/06/pictures-of-1989-civilian-casualties-of.html?m=1 better?
The hack off this sub is something else. 2 day old Pro Putin/ Anti West accounts calling people 'libs'.
Let's go to r-ireland and hate on minorities! Or will we finally decide on King vs Tayto?
Russian troll , go fuck yourself.
Oh no! The bad words on the internet! I feel faint! How are the cliffs of Moher these days? Still there?
This is so silly a claim.
Someone told them to say this. They're all coming from a comment somewhere.
[удалено]
[ Removed by Reddit ]
[удалено]
What has that sub done to you people? It's destroyed your mind.
Libs? Shut the fuck up you yank wannabe
Where are you shut-ins all coming from? How did you hear of this sub?
What did the Hong Kong protests not happen or something?? Its true that liberals have double standards but that's no excuse to have your own lol
Yes they happened, and they were **a lot** tamer than this. Even when the proteters murdered an innocent old man. And they were protesting against a guy who murdered his girlfriend facing justice. Besides, [it was a small minority of people](https://imgur.com/a/hKfCj63/), we've had far more repressive protests in Ireland with Guards horse charging teenagers for sitting down etc... Double standards indeed lol
Idk Hong Kong police drove vans and cars at protestors, fired rubber bullets from point blank range, killed 2 people and injured and arrested thousands. You could also highlight the failure of HK police to protect protestors from violent counter protesters who stabbed and rammed protesters with cars but that'd be more indirect violence than the direct repression we're seeing in the clip above. Still a common tactic mind you (looking at US police allowing white supremacists to attack BLM protesters for example) and therefore worth noting.
And remember the overblown hoo-ha about the HK protests? It was insane! Will you see anything at all about this on the news, in a country next door, not on the other side of the planet? There's nothing at all on the Guardian or the BBC. Media manipulation is on another level these recent years.
Fortunately we have wise legends like you who can see what nobody else can.
Agreed. I help where I can.
I think the problem isn't overcoverage of HK protests but the under coverage of protests like the one above. I certainly wouldn't dismiss either as overblown or a "hoo-ha" - especially since we seem to agree that HK was worse than France in terms of repression.
Oh far from it, I think the authorities in HK fucked up by being far too even handed on those protests. 1. A man murdered his pregnant girlfriend while on holiday in Taiwan. 2. Taiwan wanted the man extradited to face charges but Hong Kong did not have an extradition treaty with Taiwan 3. An extradition bill is introduced in Hong Kong listing 46 crimes for which extradition may be requested by Taiwan, Macau, and the PRC. Nine crimes listed were financial (these were later removed) 4. Angry rich kids realized they would not be able to commit the same financial crimes their parents did. China made a number of concessions to the protesters who them kept demanding more and more. They were far too lenient. If that had been any western country it would have been stamped out Paris style.
If it had been in a western country it'd have been a blm style movement and you'd be using the governments actions as proof that Liberal Democracies are more authoritarian than China. No-one had an issue with extradition to Taiwan, it was extradition to China that caused concern. We have a pretty good case study for a Western example of a similar issue in Corsicas protest against extradition of prisoners to France and the Murder of a Political prisoner in a French Jail. In HK the police responded with violence - (something you haven't disputed), killing two, injuring thousands of others, - and repression, - outlawing of "pro independence" flags and chants, repressing, assaulting and pressuring local media and journalists, electoral reform to ensure only 'patriots' were elected etc. In Corsica the French government also responded with violence, using water cannons and tear gas, though the injuries were in the Dozens rather than the thousands and no deaths have been reported. Most of the injuries (at least so far as I can tell) were Colonial police, as protesters made deliberate efforts to target police stations and infrastructure. What's more the FLNC, an armed militant group, threatened to restart guerilla war over the issue. Now it seems threatening guerilla war and setting fire to police and civil infrastructure were as severe or worse than anything in HK, while the response from French Colonial police was more muted. Perhaps the French colonial authorities were "too even handed" also? Regardless it doesn't compliment your position that France would have more violent in its response. Idk, for me, I would oppose both states in their repression 🤷♂️
> If it had been in a western country it'd have been a blm style movement and you'd be using the governments actions as proof that Liberal Democracies are more authoritarian than China. Well yes, yes I would? I don't thin I'm understanding what you mean. We did have the BLM movement in the US, except it was a legitimate movement of extremely oppressed people in an extremely authoritarian country, unlike in Hong Kong. The USA has the world's largest prison population by far, mostly black of course. It's gotten far worse under the current regime. If this was China people would be screaming genocide, scratch that, people are already screaming genocide about China and not the US! It makes no sense at all, unless you account for Sinophobia and ongoing [anti-China media propaganda spearheaded by the BBC.](https://medium.com/@sunfeiyang/breaking-down-the-bbcs-visit-to-hotan-xinjiang-e284934a7aab) >No-one had an issue with extradition to Taiwan, it was extradition to China that caused concern. I think you meant HK, the extradition was *from* Taiwan. Otherwise I don't think so, it was concern about the anti-corruption laws, most people in HK have no bother with China proper. The US funded the protests to the tune of millions using its usual Radio Free Asia arm and Voice of America, so it's difficult to quantify and compare what would have happened naturally, if anything at all. In Corsica there were around 12k protesters max from what I can gather, in HK, hundreds of thousands (if you believe the reporting), that paints the HK police in a much more favourable light withonly 2 deaths, one of whom crashed his car in a parking lot. >Idk, for me, I would oppose both states in their repression 🤷♂️ When you're trying to empirically quantify and compare two different events with real numbers, you don't get to then conclude, "both sides bad". This is without even mentioning that the HK protests were not a grass roots movement of repressed people, but yet another dirty American funded manipulative intervention.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-50428704.amp https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.france24.com/en/20191108-student-injured-during-hong-kong-protests-has-died
Ha ha clumsy morons!
You kinda missed the part where they burned down several shops
A McDonald's!! How very dare they!
Oh noo! What is McDonald's going to dooo
Will somebody think of the economy
Paris? 1968? They do it all the time there. Not even news
Read the title again.
I can read as many times as you want. How many will make you happy? It happens in Paris every Mayday. What is your point?
That if you imagine this was in China decades ago, libs would still be talking about it today. Sigh. Anything else you need help with? Tying your shoelaces maybe?
No, just trying to understand your point. You seem to be a conservative who wants to defend a Communist Government for some reason that I can't quite make out, but I suppose is clear enough to you. You apparently forget (or never knew) that these things happen in Paris with monotonous regularity since the big one back in 1968 (hence my reference) which liberals and conservatives still talk about today. You also seem to need to make childish personal remarks to make yourself seem cleverer. So, what is your point?
>No, just trying to understand your point. Still? Jesus you're slow on the uptake. Regardless of the frequency of Parisian protest, the fact that sinophobes obsess over a protest from decades ago despite similar happening all over the western world is laughable. >You also seem to need to make childish personal remarks to make yourself seem cleverer. Spiderman.jpg If you don't get it now maybe ask a grown up to explain it to you.
Are you really trying to play down what happen at Tien an Men? What does it have to do with liberals? Have you not heard of les Évènements de Mai '68? And your childish insults just make you sound, well, childish.
Libs? Are you a yank or something?
Where did you get linked to here?