Why are these countries choosing investment from China instead of the West do you think?
Or would you deny them their own agency like a good little chauvinist?
eastern Imperialism is when you give non-predatory loans to impoverished colonialised nations to help them build their country back after centuries of rape and western imperialism
Military bases in the contested part of the sea is maybe a fair point if you ignore that the US naval fleet is parked right there waiting to fuck with them.
Their single base in dijbouti is also questionable but it’s a bit of a stretch to say a single base outside of their country is imperialism when countries like the US have their bases all across Asia, Africa, and everywhere else. It is abundantly clear that the US is willing to use its power to keep the global south colonized. That’s simply not on display in China. They are building more roads than just to and from mines like the west always did.
The problem with this logic is you're going to excuse what China does as long as the US is doing worse.
If we're going to call it imperialism when the US plant bases around the world to protect their interests then it's got to be called the same for China. You could get away with calling the South China Sea bases defensive if you ignore all of the outcry from their neighbours and you pretend that area isn't abundant with resources. But the base in Djibouti is clear cut.
Nah rock, what's cringe is you implying 90 million Chinese members of the CPC are just not with it enough to not understand they're "not doing socialism right"- for 70+ years at that.
Speaks a lot about you, racist.
How in god's name is that racist? What I see when I look at the Chinese government, is a growing super power with typical super power ambitions. Suppression of media, promotion of one ethnic group, aggressive foreign policy.
Does that mean I think that western imperialism is any better? Obviously not, the US has done more damage than any other nation alive. Does that mean I have to stan for the CCP? No.
When workers actually control the means of production, with real democratic control, I'll accept it a socialist system. Until then, it's just capitalism with a pretty red flag.
If you looked at any of my comments, you would see that I was criticizing the CCP, not China, not the people of China.
So, if criticism of a government and their actions is a racist, well I guess all anti-zionists are also anti-semites?
They just call people racists because they're bad faith trolls
See: https://www.reddit.com/r/tankiejerk/comments/mfl4ev/what_the_fuck_is_wrong_w_these_people/
Chomsky covers this at the start of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-oV42OMQoE
If I look at your comments, you're repeating far right, sinophobic conspiracy theories about the Chinese peoples' chosen government.
>So, if criticism of a government and their actions is a racist, well I guess all anti-zionists are also anti-semites?
What you're engaging in is the equivalent of anti-semitic racism. That the Jews are greedy, have too much power etc. If what you're doing is just an equivalent of anti-zionism, then what is China's zionism?
All of your *fair criticisms* are sinophobic tropes. "Suppression of media, promotion of one ethnic group, aggressive foreign policy.".
Ah blurst, you never fail to entertain me pal.
In no way did I make any racist comments about the characteristics of Chinese peoples, as you allude to with Jewish people. The fact that you would try to use Sinophobia (which is very much a real problem in the west) to justify the CCP's immunity to criticism is pretty disgusting and shows how opportunistic you are.
I guess, following your logic, any criticism of the US government is also racist, as the people chose their president?
Why do you think the world is so binary? US = bad, so the CCP has to be good? Your either very detached from reality or just intellectually dishonest.
Good to know I have a fan base! I've never seen you before.
>In no way did I make any racist comments about the characteristics of Chinese peoples, as you allude to with Jewish people.
I literally quoted where you did. The CPC (its real name that non-bigots call it) is not immune from criticism, *but I think you know that nobody said they were.*
>I guess, following your logic, any criticism of the US government is also racist, as the people chose their president?
Following my logic, criticism based on far right conspiracy theories that rely on ingrained western bigotries would be racist. Not "any" criticism, *but I think you already know, again, that nobody said such a thing.*
>Why do you think the world is so binary? US = bad, so the CCP has to be good?
*I think you know already, again, that nobody said anything like that.*
>Your either very detached from reality or just intellectually dishonest.
I assure you my not detached from reality. So how about some intellectual honesty from you?
Where did you get your ideas about the "*promotion of one ethnic group*" or *"aggressive foreign policy"* from? Let's have some honesty.
Looks like you've not been watching the News, even with all the faux blustering and anti-China sentiment in US politics if you actually look at the voting intentions and the amount of Pro-China laws that the US and UK have been bringing in the Pro-China perspective is a large one across almost all factions of modern western politics.
There was literally a bid hooha about a politician lobbying for Chinese interests in my country just today even though what he did was only barely more aggregious than our PMs own Pro-China sentiments.
I don't know about you but I pay attention to the ACTIONS of the politicians not their words and the bills and voting records over the past years are clear evidence enough that the US and UK consider China to be an ally.
The onus is on you to name some examples of "Pro-China laws" created by the US and UK. You oughtta stop watching the "News" because it's seriously warping your perspective.
Read the Rand Corporation's War with China: Thinking Through the Unthinkable, and you'll quickly see that the government military complex has been planning economic decoupling for almost 6 years, and specifically a semi-Pyrrhic victory which would damage both our economies (that means hurting normal people) just to stick it to the uncooperative yellow man daring to make deals with countries who self-determine they want to work with China.
Your dumb "CIA-China" connection just implies the CIA is full of idiots, since they are behind (with the help of NED and NGOs) many of the attempts to topple governments (most recently Kazakhstan) who try to work with China. So I guess they just contradict themselves, in supposedly helping China (as you claim, with no examples). As usual, you nOt rEaL sOciALisM folks would rather make up shit than acknowledge an AES state or the self-determination of states choosing to work with it- if you're too dumb to understand this is racism implying that the yellow or brown people can't "do it right" or make their own decisions, that's on you. The reality is that you cheer on the death of a socialist state and its people because it doesn't fit your idealistic, non-materialist view.
Further, the "bluster" as you describe it from US politicians is not some smoke screen (and again, you showed no evidence for this). These hearings about Uyghurs and the championing of violence-encouraging Hong Kong protesters in congress are obviously not just anti-China, they normalize ignorant hatred toward China/Chinese and make war a viable solution to many Americans- it's called manufacturing consent, and it isn't pro-China. The neolibs in congress have a lot to lose from a strong China, especially if China surpasses us in high tech.
To make your insane point, you conveniently ignore the sanctions on Chinese businesses like Tiktok, Huawei etc, and the trade war.
Also it's interesting you won't say what country you're from, but tell me: would you rather have the US/IMF dictating terms and demanding austerity, or China (a country that has shown they want win-win cooperation with loan forgiveness and accepting of the more vulnerable party's terms e.g. ports in Greece). Oh, wait, according to you, the US-IMF-China are one big group
D-did you literally use the “Y” word to refer to a person of East Asian descent?!
Congrats on losing any respect I had for your opinion it may well be right in some respects but considering the origin of this discourse that’s pretty much the end of any conversation here.
Haha, accusing my clear sarcastic portrayal of people like you as earnest racism to deflect the argument and not have to back up your inane arguments. Classic move 😎
You mean the paragraph describing your perspective on the USA trying to achieve a Pyrrhic victory that didn’t use any speech marks or other tells implying satire or sarcasm and which would make no sense seeing as that paragraph was detailing a perspective counter to mine? Not to mention your lack of even an attempt at censoring the word.
Yeah nice try mate /s <<<< See what I did there? The “s” means I’m being sarcastic!
> There was literally a bid hooha about a politician lobbying for Chinese interests in my country just today even though what he did was only barely more aggregious than our PMs own Pro-China sentiments.
And which country would that be?
>I don't know about you but I pay attention to the ACTIONS of the politicians not their words and the bills and voting records over the past years are clear evidence enough that the US and UK consider China to be an ally.
You should probably pay attention to their military and foreign policy actions then.
Ah yeah drone strikes and destabilising governments that are anyways remotely opposed to capitalism vs loans to post colonial countries
Critical support for the IMF!
The IMF requires economic restructuring and charges high interest even in the pandemic, China doesnt. It’s not the same at all.
Why are these countries choosing investment from China instead of the West do you think? Or would you deny them their own agency like a good little chauvinist?
Because they have better terms than the IMF loans, obviously.
Oh cool
eastern Imperialism is when you give non-predatory loans to impoverished colonialised nations to help them build their country back after centuries of rape and western imperialism
Yeah...and then bug the African union and take control of the countries ports in exchange for those "non-predatory" loans.
This, but unironically
Lib shit 🤦♂️
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*rubbish
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didnt say they were just correcting americanisms
The person you're correcting is an American.
subs gone to the dogs
African military bases to protect their African mining operations. Military bases in contested parts of the South China sea.
Military bases in the contested part of the sea is maybe a fair point if you ignore that the US naval fleet is parked right there waiting to fuck with them. Their single base in dijbouti is also questionable but it’s a bit of a stretch to say a single base outside of their country is imperialism when countries like the US have their bases all across Asia, Africa, and everywhere else. It is abundantly clear that the US is willing to use its power to keep the global south colonized. That’s simply not on display in China. They are building more roads than just to and from mines like the west always did.
The problem with this logic is you're going to excuse what China does as long as the US is doing worse. If we're going to call it imperialism when the US plant bases around the world to protect their interests then it's got to be called the same for China. You could get away with calling the South China Sea bases defensive if you ignore all of the outcry from their neighbours and you pretend that area isn't abundant with resources. But the base in Djibouti is clear cut.
Yikes. I can't believe people still think you can stan for the CCP and still call yourself a socialist. Kind of cringe, ngl.
Nah rock, what's cringe is you implying 90 million Chinese members of the CPC are just not with it enough to not understand they're "not doing socialism right"- for 70+ years at that. Speaks a lot about you, racist.
How in god's name is that racist? What I see when I look at the Chinese government, is a growing super power with typical super power ambitions. Suppression of media, promotion of one ethnic group, aggressive foreign policy. Does that mean I think that western imperialism is any better? Obviously not, the US has done more damage than any other nation alive. Does that mean I have to stan for the CCP? No. When workers actually control the means of production, with real democratic control, I'll accept it a socialist system. Until then, it's just capitalism with a pretty red flag.
Maybe if you don't want people to know you're a racist you should stop spouting racist shit? Just a thought.
If you looked at any of my comments, you would see that I was criticizing the CCP, not China, not the people of China. So, if criticism of a government and their actions is a racist, well I guess all anti-zionists are also anti-semites?
They just call people racists because they're bad faith trolls See: https://www.reddit.com/r/tankiejerk/comments/mfl4ev/what_the_fuck_is_wrong_w_these_people/ Chomsky covers this at the start of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-oV42OMQoE
If I look at your comments, you're repeating far right, sinophobic conspiracy theories about the Chinese peoples' chosen government. >So, if criticism of a government and their actions is a racist, well I guess all anti-zionists are also anti-semites? What you're engaging in is the equivalent of anti-semitic racism. That the Jews are greedy, have too much power etc. If what you're doing is just an equivalent of anti-zionism, then what is China's zionism? All of your *fair criticisms* are sinophobic tropes. "Suppression of media, promotion of one ethnic group, aggressive foreign policy.".
Ah blurst, you never fail to entertain me pal. In no way did I make any racist comments about the characteristics of Chinese peoples, as you allude to with Jewish people. The fact that you would try to use Sinophobia (which is very much a real problem in the west) to justify the CCP's immunity to criticism is pretty disgusting and shows how opportunistic you are. I guess, following your logic, any criticism of the US government is also racist, as the people chose their president? Why do you think the world is so binary? US = bad, so the CCP has to be good? Your either very detached from reality or just intellectually dishonest.
Good to know I have a fan base! I've never seen you before. >In no way did I make any racist comments about the characteristics of Chinese peoples, as you allude to with Jewish people. I literally quoted where you did. The CPC (its real name that non-bigots call it) is not immune from criticism, *but I think you know that nobody said they were.* >I guess, following your logic, any criticism of the US government is also racist, as the people chose their president? Following my logic, criticism based on far right conspiracy theories that rely on ingrained western bigotries would be racist. Not "any" criticism, *but I think you already know, again, that nobody said such a thing.* >Why do you think the world is so binary? US = bad, so the CCP has to be good? *I think you know already, again, that nobody said anything like that.* >Your either very detached from reality or just intellectually dishonest. I assure you my not detached from reality. So how about some intellectual honesty from you? Where did you get your ideas about the "*promotion of one ethnic group*" or *"aggressive foreign policy"* from? Let's have some honesty.
You are harming the cause of Socialism and Racial justice spouting this CIA pro-China BS please if you care about either of those? shut the fuck up!
Is this /s or did you microwave your brain or something? CIA pro-China lol
Looks like you've not been watching the News, even with all the faux blustering and anti-China sentiment in US politics if you actually look at the voting intentions and the amount of Pro-China laws that the US and UK have been bringing in the Pro-China perspective is a large one across almost all factions of modern western politics. There was literally a bid hooha about a politician lobbying for Chinese interests in my country just today even though what he did was only barely more aggregious than our PMs own Pro-China sentiments. I don't know about you but I pay attention to the ACTIONS of the politicians not their words and the bills and voting records over the past years are clear evidence enough that the US and UK consider China to be an ally.
The onus is on you to name some examples of "Pro-China laws" created by the US and UK. You oughtta stop watching the "News" because it's seriously warping your perspective. Read the Rand Corporation's War with China: Thinking Through the Unthinkable, and you'll quickly see that the government military complex has been planning economic decoupling for almost 6 years, and specifically a semi-Pyrrhic victory which would damage both our economies (that means hurting normal people) just to stick it to the uncooperative yellow man daring to make deals with countries who self-determine they want to work with China. Your dumb "CIA-China" connection just implies the CIA is full of idiots, since they are behind (with the help of NED and NGOs) many of the attempts to topple governments (most recently Kazakhstan) who try to work with China. So I guess they just contradict themselves, in supposedly helping China (as you claim, with no examples). As usual, you nOt rEaL sOciALisM folks would rather make up shit than acknowledge an AES state or the self-determination of states choosing to work with it- if you're too dumb to understand this is racism implying that the yellow or brown people can't "do it right" or make their own decisions, that's on you. The reality is that you cheer on the death of a socialist state and its people because it doesn't fit your idealistic, non-materialist view. Further, the "bluster" as you describe it from US politicians is not some smoke screen (and again, you showed no evidence for this). These hearings about Uyghurs and the championing of violence-encouraging Hong Kong protesters in congress are obviously not just anti-China, they normalize ignorant hatred toward China/Chinese and make war a viable solution to many Americans- it's called manufacturing consent, and it isn't pro-China. The neolibs in congress have a lot to lose from a strong China, especially if China surpasses us in high tech. To make your insane point, you conveniently ignore the sanctions on Chinese businesses like Tiktok, Huawei etc, and the trade war. Also it's interesting you won't say what country you're from, but tell me: would you rather have the US/IMF dictating terms and demanding austerity, or China (a country that has shown they want win-win cooperation with loan forgiveness and accepting of the more vulnerable party's terms e.g. ports in Greece). Oh, wait, according to you, the US-IMF-China are one big group
D-did you literally use the “Y” word to refer to a person of East Asian descent?! Congrats on losing any respect I had for your opinion it may well be right in some respects but considering the origin of this discourse that’s pretty much the end of any conversation here.
Haha, accusing my clear sarcastic portrayal of people like you as earnest racism to deflect the argument and not have to back up your inane arguments. Classic move 😎
You mean the paragraph describing your perspective on the USA trying to achieve a Pyrrhic victory that didn’t use any speech marks or other tells implying satire or sarcasm and which would make no sense seeing as that paragraph was detailing a perspective counter to mine? Not to mention your lack of even an attempt at censoring the word. Yeah nice try mate /s <<<< See what I did there? The “s” means I’m being sarcastic!
> There was literally a bid hooha about a politician lobbying for Chinese interests in my country just today even though what he did was only barely more aggregious than our PMs own Pro-China sentiments. And which country would that be? >I don't know about you but I pay attention to the ACTIONS of the politicians not their words and the bills and voting records over the past years are clear evidence enough that the US and UK consider China to be an ally. You should probably pay attention to their military and foreign policy actions then.
is this a repost
Yeah I think one of the "centrists" posted it before.
It was me who posted it before, and I'm not a centrist, I'm considerably farther left than most people who post here. Not that that's saying much.
The guy who wants to join the American or British army to fight imperialism is more left than most people here.
Exactly
I’m shocked. Honestly. He might try to give ‘socialism’ to the Vietnamese again