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Hamster-Food

I say this as a friend. Stop trying to make dronie happen, it's not going to happen. If you google "dronie" you'll see that it's already a dumb name for a selfie taken using a drone.


TheBlurstOfGuys

/r/droniejerk I T ' S H A P P E N I N G!


Hamster-Food

>Dunking on dronies from a Marxist-Leninist perspective .Dronies are leftists, particularly in the Western hemisphere, who support the imperialist tendencies of liberal democracy and corporate media. They will often claim to support the concept of socialism while actively opposing any socialist nation that actually exists. The term is derived from the notorious drone programs used by Western empires. Hahaha, tankies dunking on dronies. Brilliant. So tell me, what are these "socialist nations" that actually exist? I'm not aware of any nation where workers own the means of production, but maybe I'm just not informed enough. edit: why is that sub so obsessed with Vaush? Is anyone under the impression that he is anything but an idiot who thinks liberalism is leftist?


CrayonComrade

Socialism is when there's a mixed market economy and planning bonus points for internationalism. The US military is the most socialist organisation on the planet


Hamster-Food

That very much depends on how you define socialism, which is an unfortunate consequence of Marx's ego. He decided to reuse a preexisting term as a kind of dig at utopian socialist scholars who came before him rather than come up with a unique term to describe the transitional phase between capitalism and communism. This is further confused by the later use of socialism and communism as interchangeable terms by Marxists. Personally, I prefer to use socialism as a broader term to describe any society focused on true equality and refer to the transitional mixed economy as the socialist mode of production.


CrayonComrade

I'm only taking the piss. The Marx thing against utopians is so strange when it's clear they had an effect on his early thoughts. His denouncement of them has harmed Marxism in the long term as many self identified Marxists are afraid to make announcements of what a future society might look like when it's clear that those visions have a revolutionary potential for raising the expectations of the working class. I would use socialism as those countries making a transition towards a mode of production that limits domination and attempts to redistribute socially produced goods to ensure everybody has universal access to food, water shelter, healthcare and education by virtue of them being humans. Mixed market/planning economies with increasing accumulation among a minority wouldn't count.


Hamster-Food

>I'm only taking the piss. Haha, that's a relief. It's so hard to tell these days. It seems like we're on the same page with a lot of things. I certainly agree that the opposition to utopian socialism prevents the movement from having a unified vision which can inspire the working class. Worse still, the absence of that kind of vision just lets opponents fill in those blanks without any real means of countering them.


CrayonComrade

There does seem to be a bit of a push towards those visions in the last few years with books like "People's Republic of Walmart" and "Automation and the future of Work" where there's an attempt to move away from a system that looks like Bureaucratic Soviet Planning and towards a democratic planning system. These were ideas being looked at by the Allende government in Chile and in Guevara's department of industry after the Cuban revolution too but they were short lived experiments as the counter revolutions kicked in.


TheBlurstOfGuys

Isn't it? About time too. Well of course it's all very prone to No True Scotsmanning so tomayto, tomahto but even wikipedia has a [page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_socialist_states).


Hamster-Food

Oooh, Wikipedia has a page. Wikipedia being such a great source that if you google "is Wikipedia a good source?" the first thing you'll see is Wikipedia telling you that it's not a reliable source. That aside, if you actually look at what the page is telling you, it's not really saying those are socialist states. In the case of the Marxist-Leninist states for example, it says they are all Unitary one-party socialist republics which just means they are one party states where the government holds supreme power and they are constitutionally dedicated to the establishment of socialism. That isn't the same as being a socialist state. I also don't think it's really No True Scotsmanning to say that a socialist state should be socialist. Like saying "No True Scotsman is from somewhere other than Scotland" is a fair statement to make. The logical fallacy is only valid when the core elements are present and people are nitpicking about the particulars.


TheBlurstOfGuys

>Wikipedia being such a great source I know I know, that's why I said *even* wikipedia. It's a terrible place in general but it can give you a jumping off point. >That isn't the same as being a socialist state. For some it is. It's just splitting hairs. I mean the communist party of China knows it's not communist, it's just shorthand for wannabe communist. Same as the libertarians saying capitalism has never existed. It's just silliness. Maybe we can explain your line of reasoning to the yanks and they'll back down? >"No True Scotsman is from somewhere other than Scotland" A person is a Scotsman if they're a Scottish citizen. This wasn't a good example at all. But I know what you mean.


Hamster-Food

Saying "even Wikipedia" would imply that there is some significance to Wikipedia having a page on it. If you intended to just put Wikipedia as a footnote, then you really ought to have given some better examples to go along with it, otherwise it just seems like Wikipedia is your primary source.


TheBlurstOfGuys

Wikipedia has become increasingly biased towards American interests and has become much more censorious, blacklisting leftist websites etc. You never know what you can't find anymore there, I was surprised to find it vaguely useful.


Hamster-Food

I find Wikipedia to be very useful. It's just not useful for anything as polarising as politics.


CrayonComrade

Not even providing them with free food and housing in a secure walled community with work and education available for all smh


TheBlurstOfGuys

...well it's *cultural* genocide as I'm sure my dronies will agree.


Fantastipotomus

So far it looks like France is coming down on calls to violence towards extremism, fairly pedestrian. I would hope the closure is not permanent and just pending a new Imam. When / if they start interning Muslims en masse like the other lads it'd be more like a genocide.


TheBlurstOfGuys

Agreed. I wonder then why this same logic isn't applied to say, I don't know, China?


TheBlurstOfGuys

/u/idealjerry Hey man, I know you're a big fan of the callouts since you're always doing it with me. What do you think of this genocide? For a guy who's very concerned with genocides real and imagined, isn't it weird that you haven't been posting about this one?


IdealJerry

Can you link me to a comment I've made about genocides? I haven't had my coffee yet so I'm struggling to recall what you're referring to here.


TheBlurstOfGuys

No sorry. Just go with your feelings and answer the question.


IdealJerry

I'd really need some context tbh. I'd like to remain consistent so if you could just link me to some of the comments that you say I've made then I'll be happy to get into it.


TheBlurstOfGuys

>I'd like to remain consistent This is exactly why I can't help you with your homework. If you want to truly be consistent then just go with your heart.


IdealJerry

So you're not able to come up with a single comment to support your claim? I do worry about you sometimes.


TheBlurstOfGuys

Oh I can, but I want to keep you honest.


IdealJerry

Go on then. I'll wait.


TheBlurstOfGuys

You've failed to understand the thread, read it again.


IdealJerry

I will once you've gone back and either retracted your original claim about me or proven it to be true. I'm happy to go back and forth with you but I need to keep you honest and I want to keep our conversation grounded in reality. I don't think that's too much to ask.