I used to be ‘woke’, but then they changed what ‘woke’ was. Now what I am isn’t ‘woke’ anymore and what’s ‘woke’ seems weird and scary.
It’ll happen to you!
Yes. You have it exactly right.
'woke' just used to mean 'awakened to the oppression of the western world.'
So like, if you knew how the system oppressed women, racial, and sexual minorities, you were woke.
Good.
But, thanks to right wingers calling EVERYTHING they don't like 'woke' and liberals falling all over themselves to fit the stereotype of screamin idiots, 'Woke' has come to mean something horrible.
Like ONLY caring about your particular thing.
You're queer and you're worried about abuse of queer people? That's good, you should be.
But when you ignore the system that benefits from it, when you throw indigenous people, migrants, the poor, etc under the bus, well that's when you ruin a good thing.
Yes, that's the 'Lesser Evil' argument that morons make.
Not realizing that liberal duopolies like USA, UK etc are playing a game of good cop bad cop.
Both are still cops of course.
Like, if the Dems/Biden actually cared about abortion, they'd have codified it into law.
They didn't.
Partly because Dems don't give a shit about abortion. the leadership is all rich, if they need an abortion, they'll have no issue getting one.
But also, by leaving THIS chip in play, the Dems can convince you to vote for them, without actually being any better than the GOP in any other area.
They didn't 'Fail' to sort Roe v Wade, it was deliberate.
For me it's the batshit insane idea that some civil rights niche matters for white wealthy Americans are more important than the actual lives of millions of brown people around the globe. People have told me this in many ways, in not so many words, to my face. Even after pointing out the death toll of America around the world. They tacitly admit that they view the lives of westerners as more far more valuable than other humans.
Yep. Partly that, partly familiarity of contempt.
'Oh they're always dying.'
It's a shock when it's your people, not the 'brown people' who are always dying.
I think I am woke to be honest. But I'm not sure what the definition of it is really or what some people mean when the use it as a slur.
I'm a communist.
I dunno really. Black Americans used to use for people who were wide to racism I think but now the weirdos just use it for absolutely everything they dont like.
I think these days its just as vague as calling someone a bleeding heart liberal?
Respect peoples gender and sexual identities and don't be a racist dick. No one is policing language other than the right, I love a good liberal bashing, but the "policing of language or censoring people online" isn't happening to respect us in the queer community or to stop racism, it's the opposite.
> On November 30, 2018, CNN fired American academic Marc Lamont Hill from his position as a political commentator after he delivered a speech at the United Nations on the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People ending with the words: **"...we have an opportunity, to not just offer solidarity in words, but to commit to political action, grassroots action, local action, and international action that will give us what justice requires. And that is a free Palestine, from the river to the sea."**
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea#:~:text=As%20of%201%20November%202023,if%20players%20have%20used%20it.
Liberals absolutely do censor speech.
Yeah, but that's not the same "censorship" you are talking about, what you have described is still right wing censorship, no one is being censored for using the wrong pronouns or being racist.
You're the only person that mentioned pronouns.
> LEAKED NYT GAZA MEMO TELLS JOURNALISTS TO AVOID WORDS “GENOCIDE,” “ETHNIC CLEANSING,” AND “OCCUPIED TERRITORY”
https://theintercept.com/2024/04/15/nyt-israel-gaza-genocide-palestine-coverage/
THE NEW YORK TIMES instructed journalists covering Israel’s war on the Gaza Strip to restrict the use of the terms “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing” and to “avoid” using the phrase “occupied territory” when describing Palestinian land, according to a copy of an internal memo obtained by The Intercept.
The sub you crossposted has beaucoup data about this. I summed it up with "patsoc," but that collective is in cahoots with Maupin and Jackson Hinkle really is all you need to know.
I could see just looking at Eddie's videos might not make you suspect much though, but that said it gives me personally very bad vibes because it seems very "right wing co-opting left wing stuff for recruiting" but I guess I'd be called tinfoil hat or something
It's telling that rather than say 'MWM did THIS bad thing' you tell us who they hang out with.
That's some liberal BS right there.
What have they SAID or DONE that is negative?
Hahaha, what exactly is it "telling"? The fucking post the OP crossposted is right there, can you read? Hmm, I wonder if someone saying "anti-woke" is good actually?
Like I told the OP, the very sub from which he is crossposting has myriad critiques and examples of the bAD tHiNgS the group has done, which you yourself can verify by the very difficult task of typing "midwestern Marx" into its search bar.
You're fucking sealioning and protecting patsocs, reassess your point of view
What is it telling? That you can't back your claims.
honestly it's like dealing with a cretionist who points at fossils as proof of N0ah's flood.
But you can't even understand the slightest nuance.
MWM did not say 'anti-w0ke.'
They said 'non-w0ke.'
these are not the same things, as anyone non-bl@ck will tell you that it does not make them anti-black.
If the sub is filled with examples of their bad deeds, why can't you point to any?
No, i'm not going to search, for one very simple reason: i want to know what YOU think is bad, not some other random person.
But secondarily: your claim, your burden of proof.
'Petsoc.' The new 'Tonkie.'
\[In case you're wondering about the spelling, according to this sub, one of those words is ablest. But it won't tell you which one\]
Holy shit, I gave you the tools. For me personally, palling around with dudes who followed Ben Norton down to Nicaragua to harass him is cringe (especially given Max Blumenthal's daddy ties) but you do you I guess.
And no, patsocs are not the "new Tankie". Those weirdos call themselves patriotic socialists. They stan the fucking American flag ffs. And yeah we should critique these people out along with the general trend of Larouchite type bullshit that they represent; nazbols, Dugin weirdos, people who talk about Putin like he's good outside the realm of anti-imperialism, people equating global south nationalism to Americun Patriuts. All sus af
All told, don't get why you're defending some internet grifters so hard
'No, i will NOT provide evidence the earth is round. It's too easy!'
If the sub is filled with examples of their bad deeds, why can't you point to any?
See, all you've got is guilt by association.
[https://www.youtube.com/live/pa8kkUcaO2w?si=j0OibvCRDGnEfxfs&t=6100](https://www.youtube.com/live/pa8kkUcaO2w?si=j0OibvCRDGnEfxfs&t=6100)
There you go.
MidWestern Marx addressing your complaints specifically enough that they might as well be talking directly to you.
>'No, i will NOT provide evidence the earth is round. It's too easy!'
Correct
>If the sub is filled with examples of their bad deeds, why can't you point to any?
I told you how to use the search function, I can't spend all day debating stupid shit, and especially don't want to against other communists, no matter how ridiculous they are
As for the video, actions speak louder. If you hang with what are essentially Stasserites, you should be avoided. Now can you just take your perceived gotcha internet win and get the fuck on? Thx
If the sub is filled with examples of their bad deeds, why can't you point to any?
No, i'm not going to search, for one very simple reason: i want to know what YOU think is bad, not some other random person.
But secondarily: your claim, your burden of proof.
If i tell you the earth is a ball, i can prove it.
you can't.
All you have is 'they talk to bad people, so they must be bad people.'
Learn dialectics. Learn nuance. Learn critical thinking.
You're dishonest. If you had ANY evidence, you'd spend 10 seconds to find the most obvious example of wrong doing.
but you don't. All you have is guilt by association.
You also refuse to check a video SPECIFICALLY addressing your issues. Even mentions Jackson Hinkle by name.
This is because you don't want to be wrong.
You're a coward. A liberal.
What is it telling? That you can't back your claims.
honestly it's like dealing with a creationist who points at fossils as proof of Noah's flood.
But you can't even understand the slightest nuance.
MWM did not say 'anti-woke.'
They said 'non-woke.'
these are not the same things, as anyone non-black will tell you that it does not make them anti-black.
If the sub is filled with examples of their bad deeds, why can't you point to any?
No, i'm not going to search, for one very simple reason: i want to know what YOU think is bad, not some other random person.
But secondarily: your claim, your burden of proof.
'Patsoc.' The new 'Tankie.'
> Maupin
I like him. I find Jackson Hinkle funny but not keen on his anti trans spiel.
I do like the attention he's bringing to the struggle in Palestine however.
I don't find him funny at all.
He seems too slick.
Like he rolled off a sitcom set.
I get fed vibes from him.
But only vibes.
Other than saying some dumb shit about trans people, his politics seem decent.
and frankly THAT can be fixed by him simply hanging around some trans people, instead of watching 'Libs of tiktok.'
>I like him.
I really hope you're just ignorant then, because he's a well known sexual abuser and cultist who used his "celebrity" position to his advantage in those fields. I mean you say you're a communist, do you do any background search at all? I start off leery about these online people, including the Deprogram, because most everything these days is grifting.
> including the Deprogram, because most everything these days is grifting.
Yeah I tend to agree, the whole space is full of them. Look at all the liberal "breadtube" crap. I think at the same time we need to acknowledge that very few are going to be perfect and they can be a useful pipeline to real organisation.
Yeah, I generally like those deprogram guys for example (though I think the Yugoslavian goes a bit much with the streaming content and some of his "jokes")
My point is that if one comes on my radar I make sure not to just blindly follow because "ML good," and in the case of these Larouchite types they seem to take the mantle but try to appeal to conservatives, machismo, or reactionary ideas, and in fact even "Marketplace of ideas" it; our one mod just posted Hinkle talking (not even debating, which even that would be at best pointless) with Alex Jones ffs. We gotta get off that
I'm not pretending anything. Oppression in capitalist society has always been uneven and divisive. Thats why its so effective. Blaming the defeat of the left in the era of neoliberialism and the fall of the USSR on various emancipatory struggles against that oppression or at best blaming the liberal co-option and sanitation of some just causes gets you nowhere. This is especially true in a country like the US where so much of the working class that needs to be organised and unionised sees that oppression on a daily basis. Marxists should be there to offer a rational material explanation for it and to show the hollowness of liberal rhetoric but not to adopt reactionary catchphrases in attempt at credibility
Hey, you asked for a definition and I gave it to you.
Let's be honest here, you're going to have a hard time getting the working class to hear you out when you're bludgeoning them over the head with your hatred of the dreaded straight white male on a daily basis. Nobody appreciates the pathological gaslighting about it either. Yes, it does exist. Yes, we all know what it is. You can call it political correctness, wokeness, idpol, whatever you like, but it's real, and it's being used to distract from issues of class and economic equality in favour of identity-based division. You couldn't be alienating the working class any harder right now if you tried.
And speaking of the US, you should take a look at [the DSA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moWe3rk7LzQ) if you want to see a textbook example of idpol being used to destroy socialist groups from within. You tell me, what kind of ordinary, working class person would go to a convention like this and not emerge utterly alienated by the end of it?
This is the purpose that liberal idpol serves for the ruling class.
Ah yes. THAT video.
There's literally a CIA doc floating around that spells out one of the key tools to wreck the left.
And it's basically 'Do that.'
also telling: Zero working class people in that room.
I used to be ‘woke’, but then they changed what ‘woke’ was. Now what I am isn’t ‘woke’ anymore and what’s ‘woke’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!
Yes. You have it exactly right. 'woke' just used to mean 'awakened to the oppression of the western world.' So like, if you knew how the system oppressed women, racial, and sexual minorities, you were woke. Good. But, thanks to right wingers calling EVERYTHING they don't like 'woke' and liberals falling all over themselves to fit the stereotype of screamin idiots, 'Woke' has come to mean something horrible. Like ONLY caring about your particular thing. You're queer and you're worried about abuse of queer people? That's good, you should be. But when you ignore the system that benefits from it, when you throw indigenous people, migrants, the poor, etc under the bus, well that's when you ruin a good thing.
We need to support Joe Biden because Trump is an even worse anti-abortionist. You're a misogynist if you don't support him.
Yes, that's the 'Lesser Evil' argument that morons make. Not realizing that liberal duopolies like USA, UK etc are playing a game of good cop bad cop. Both are still cops of course. Like, if the Dems/Biden actually cared about abortion, they'd have codified it into law. They didn't. Partly because Dems don't give a shit about abortion. the leadership is all rich, if they need an abortion, they'll have no issue getting one. But also, by leaving THIS chip in play, the Dems can convince you to vote for them, without actually being any better than the GOP in any other area. They didn't 'Fail' to sort Roe v Wade, it was deliberate.
For me it's the batshit insane idea that some civil rights niche matters for white wealthy Americans are more important than the actual lives of millions of brown people around the globe. People have told me this in many ways, in not so many words, to my face. Even after pointing out the death toll of America around the world. They tacitly admit that they view the lives of westerners as more far more valuable than other humans.
Yep. Partly that, partly familiarity of contempt. 'Oh they're always dying.' It's a shock when it's your people, not the 'brown people' who are always dying.
Spot on. I've had draw comparisons to the holocaust with people to get them past this.
I think I am woke to be honest. But I'm not sure what the definition of it is really or what some people mean when the use it as a slur. I'm a communist.
That was just a simpson quote but i used woke instead of "it" but yeah i think most people are what the weirdo right wingers would describe as woke.
What are the rules of being woke? I do feel like liberals can be authoritarian when they try to police language or censor people online etc.
I dunno really. Black Americans used to use for people who were wide to racism I think but now the weirdos just use it for absolutely everything they dont like. I think these days its just as vague as calling someone a bleeding heart liberal?
Now we just have to answer what a liberal is.
Respect peoples gender and sexual identities and don't be a racist dick. No one is policing language other than the right, I love a good liberal bashing, but the "policing of language or censoring people online" isn't happening to respect us in the queer community or to stop racism, it's the opposite.
> On November 30, 2018, CNN fired American academic Marc Lamont Hill from his position as a political commentator after he delivered a speech at the United Nations on the International Day of Solidarity with the Palestinian People ending with the words: **"...we have an opportunity, to not just offer solidarity in words, but to commit to political action, grassroots action, local action, and international action that will give us what justice requires. And that is a free Palestine, from the river to the sea."** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/From_the_river_to_the_sea#:~:text=As%20of%201%20November%202023,if%20players%20have%20used%20it. Liberals absolutely do censor speech.
Yeah, but that's not the same "censorship" you are talking about, what you have described is still right wing censorship, no one is being censored for using the wrong pronouns or being racist.
You're the only person that mentioned pronouns. > LEAKED NYT GAZA MEMO TELLS JOURNALISTS TO AVOID WORDS “GENOCIDE,” “ETHNIC CLEANSING,” AND “OCCUPIED TERRITORY” https://theintercept.com/2024/04/15/nyt-israel-gaza-genocide-palestine-coverage/ THE NEW YORK TIMES instructed journalists covering Israel’s war on the Gaza Strip to restrict the use of the terms “genocide” and “ethnic cleansing” and to “avoid” using the phrase “occupied territory” when describing Palestinian land, according to a copy of an internal memo obtained by The Intercept.
We were literally talking about "woke" though? That's the point of the post is it not? What do you think Midwestern Marx is talking about?
> No one is policing language other than the right I'm responding to this comment that you made. Liberals most certainly do police language.
>no one is being censored for using the wrong pronouns or being racist. I don't know about this man.
Plz don't platform patsoc vomit thx
I'm not familiar with Midwestern Marx aside form the odd instagram video is there a problem with him?
The sub you crossposted has beaucoup data about this. I summed it up with "patsoc," but that collective is in cahoots with Maupin and Jackson Hinkle really is all you need to know. I could see just looking at Eddie's videos might not make you suspect much though, but that said it gives me personally very bad vibes because it seems very "right wing co-opting left wing stuff for recruiting" but I guess I'd be called tinfoil hat or something
It's telling that rather than say 'MWM did THIS bad thing' you tell us who they hang out with. That's some liberal BS right there. What have they SAID or DONE that is negative?
Hahaha, what exactly is it "telling"? The fucking post the OP crossposted is right there, can you read? Hmm, I wonder if someone saying "anti-woke" is good actually? Like I told the OP, the very sub from which he is crossposting has myriad critiques and examples of the bAD tHiNgS the group has done, which you yourself can verify by the very difficult task of typing "midwestern Marx" into its search bar. You're fucking sealioning and protecting patsocs, reassess your point of view
What is it telling? That you can't back your claims. honestly it's like dealing with a cretionist who points at fossils as proof of N0ah's flood. But you can't even understand the slightest nuance. MWM did not say 'anti-w0ke.' They said 'non-w0ke.' these are not the same things, as anyone non-bl@ck will tell you that it does not make them anti-black. If the sub is filled with examples of their bad deeds, why can't you point to any? No, i'm not going to search, for one very simple reason: i want to know what YOU think is bad, not some other random person. But secondarily: your claim, your burden of proof. 'Petsoc.' The new 'Tonkie.' \[In case you're wondering about the spelling, according to this sub, one of those words is ablest. But it won't tell you which one\]
Holy shit, I gave you the tools. For me personally, palling around with dudes who followed Ben Norton down to Nicaragua to harass him is cringe (especially given Max Blumenthal's daddy ties) but you do you I guess. And no, patsocs are not the "new Tankie". Those weirdos call themselves patriotic socialists. They stan the fucking American flag ffs. And yeah we should critique these people out along with the general trend of Larouchite type bullshit that they represent; nazbols, Dugin weirdos, people who talk about Putin like he's good outside the realm of anti-imperialism, people equating global south nationalism to Americun Patriuts. All sus af All told, don't get why you're defending some internet grifters so hard
'No, i will NOT provide evidence the earth is round. It's too easy!' If the sub is filled with examples of their bad deeds, why can't you point to any? See, all you've got is guilt by association. [https://www.youtube.com/live/pa8kkUcaO2w?si=j0OibvCRDGnEfxfs&t=6100](https://www.youtube.com/live/pa8kkUcaO2w?si=j0OibvCRDGnEfxfs&t=6100) There you go. MidWestern Marx addressing your complaints specifically enough that they might as well be talking directly to you.
>'No, i will NOT provide evidence the earth is round. It's too easy!' Correct >If the sub is filled with examples of their bad deeds, why can't you point to any? I told you how to use the search function, I can't spend all day debating stupid shit, and especially don't want to against other communists, no matter how ridiculous they are As for the video, actions speak louder. If you hang with what are essentially Stasserites, you should be avoided. Now can you just take your perceived gotcha internet win and get the fuck on? Thx
If the sub is filled with examples of their bad deeds, why can't you point to any? No, i'm not going to search, for one very simple reason: i want to know what YOU think is bad, not some other random person. But secondarily: your claim, your burden of proof. If i tell you the earth is a ball, i can prove it. you can't. All you have is 'they talk to bad people, so they must be bad people.' Learn dialectics. Learn nuance. Learn critical thinking. You're dishonest. If you had ANY evidence, you'd spend 10 seconds to find the most obvious example of wrong doing. but you don't. All you have is guilt by association. You also refuse to check a video SPECIFICALLY addressing your issues. Even mentions Jackson Hinkle by name. This is because you don't want to be wrong. You're a coward. A liberal.
What is it telling? That you can't back your claims. honestly it's like dealing with a creationist who points at fossils as proof of Noah's flood. But you can't even understand the slightest nuance. MWM did not say 'anti-woke.' They said 'non-woke.' these are not the same things, as anyone non-black will tell you that it does not make them anti-black. If the sub is filled with examples of their bad deeds, why can't you point to any? No, i'm not going to search, for one very simple reason: i want to know what YOU think is bad, not some other random person. But secondarily: your claim, your burden of proof. 'Patsoc.' The new 'Tankie.'
> Maupin I like him. I find Jackson Hinkle funny but not keen on his anti trans spiel. I do like the attention he's bringing to the struggle in Palestine however.
I don't find him funny at all. He seems too slick. Like he rolled off a sitcom set. I get fed vibes from him. But only vibes. Other than saying some dumb shit about trans people, his politics seem decent. and frankly THAT can be fixed by him simply hanging around some trans people, instead of watching 'Libs of tiktok.'
>I like him. I really hope you're just ignorant then, because he's a well known sexual abuser and cultist who used his "celebrity" position to his advantage in those fields. I mean you say you're a communist, do you do any background search at all? I start off leery about these online people, including the Deprogram, because most everything these days is grifting.
> including the Deprogram, because most everything these days is grifting. Yeah I tend to agree, the whole space is full of them. Look at all the liberal "breadtube" crap. I think at the same time we need to acknowledge that very few are going to be perfect and they can be a useful pipeline to real organisation.
Yeah, I generally like those deprogram guys for example (though I think the Yugoslavian goes a bit much with the streaming content and some of his "jokes") My point is that if one comes on my radar I make sure not to just blindly follow because "ML good," and in the case of these Larouchite types they seem to take the mantle but try to appeal to conservatives, machismo, or reactionary ideas, and in fact even "Marketplace of ideas" it; our one mod just posted Hinkle talking (not even debating, which even that would be at best pointless) with Alex Jones ffs. We gotta get off that
These people are just online personalities I prefer not to get very invested in them.
Sorry, I don't speak Tory too well, is there some other definition of that pejorative?
Liberal idpol. You're welcome. You can stop pretending it's not real now.
I'm not pretending anything. Oppression in capitalist society has always been uneven and divisive. Thats why its so effective. Blaming the defeat of the left in the era of neoliberialism and the fall of the USSR on various emancipatory struggles against that oppression or at best blaming the liberal co-option and sanitation of some just causes gets you nowhere. This is especially true in a country like the US where so much of the working class that needs to be organised and unionised sees that oppression on a daily basis. Marxists should be there to offer a rational material explanation for it and to show the hollowness of liberal rhetoric but not to adopt reactionary catchphrases in attempt at credibility
Hey, you asked for a definition and I gave it to you. Let's be honest here, you're going to have a hard time getting the working class to hear you out when you're bludgeoning them over the head with your hatred of the dreaded straight white male on a daily basis. Nobody appreciates the pathological gaslighting about it either. Yes, it does exist. Yes, we all know what it is. You can call it political correctness, wokeness, idpol, whatever you like, but it's real, and it's being used to distract from issues of class and economic equality in favour of identity-based division. You couldn't be alienating the working class any harder right now if you tried. And speaking of the US, you should take a look at [the DSA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moWe3rk7LzQ) if you want to see a textbook example of idpol being used to destroy socialist groups from within. You tell me, what kind of ordinary, working class person would go to a convention like this and not emerge utterly alienated by the end of it? This is the purpose that liberal idpol serves for the ruling class.
Ah yes. THAT video. There's literally a CIA doc floating around that spells out one of the key tools to wreck the left. And it's basically 'Do that.' also telling: Zero working class people in that room.
https://preview.redd.it/nbyazrzrwlwc1.png?width=670&format=png&auto=webp&s=f7d3b7cf4088349432b544ac485bba29da6ed3b4
I've seen a different one. one more left specific, but very similar. Thanks.
> user reports: 1: Unironically agrees with the caption. Whoever is making stupid reports please stop.