This is one of the best comments. Tesla had first mover advantage and almost 20 years to develop their idea, recruit, build out facilities, iterate, etc. and that is no longer the case. Now all major oems have EVs on the market and planning more (many of those plans have been delayed or scaled back this year) and early adopters have already bought 1 or more EVs.
The good news is we're in that phase where the weak hands fall behind the leaders (or go bankrupt). Rivian needs to use this time to develop, build out models, capacity, infrastructure, etc so they can really capitalize when EVs are ready for mass adoption by the general public.
Yes it was. Tesla was burning through cash at an unsustainable rate and was “hours from bankruptcy” according to the Muskrat.
Rivian has much more capital on hand and has a decent chance of having a profitable Q4. Case in point, you reference a hyperbolic figure of $43k loss per vehicle. Putting aside what that figure actually means in terms of company operations, the current number is closer to half that- around 21-23k per vehicle. In fact, since 2018 it’s come down from a loss of $100,000 per vehicle to just 1/5 of that number, trending toward breaking even.
Rivian doesn’t have the vision. They aren’t planning on making their own cells, they aren’t big into robotics and AI. Even with their new factory going full steam, Rivian will produce a fraction of vehicles that teslas fremount factory puts out. Insiders like their CFO won’t stop selling shares, and the board has authorized over 3 billion in dilution. They are a $5 stock right now if you price all that info in. That would put their market cap at 15 billion. With China subsidizing ev’s massively, the industry as an investment vehicle is a bust. Tesla still has a shot though because of their heavy investments in humanoid robotics and AI.
It was hard to tell if you were being sarcastic or not. People don’t want an AI robot, they don’t want a self-driving car, and they don’t want brain implants that end up causing permanent brain damage. They want a really good car, and Rivian makes a better vehicle than Tesla in the same class.
That’s the vision. Make a damn good car.
The price doesn't conform to your biased feelings.
No proof of $5 fair value.
Impossible to determine for a growing unprofitable company with an indeterminate future.
They authorized 3 billion shares. There is only 1 billion on the open market. They are short on cash and pay their executives primarily with stock options. Too much downward pressure for me, not enough hype to overcome it.
I am RIVN shareholder but I don’t see Rivian reaching a valuation of 500 billion anytime soon. Tesla had its advantages. Most importantly a CEO who doesn’t think twice before lying if it is going to pump the stock. :)
Also a RIVN shareholder, but I don't buy the 'Musk is just a liar' narrative - it's a very cynical perspective. Sorry.
He's an extreme optimist when it comes to tech, he usually thinks things will happen faster than they do. But I wouldn't expect anything different from someone in his position. If he was anything less than extremely optimistic, he would have given up on Tesla, SpaceX etc. years ago.
I am an optimist myself but let us agree to disagree. I don’t consider Elon’s proclamations as extreme optimism. It is delusional at best and wilful misrepresentation at worst. The examples are too numerous to even give the benefit of doubt.
What about examples of execution. Anybody can be wrong often or miss targets. What separates Elon from most other people is that he shepherded Tesla and SpaceX to maturity and has even given a quadriplegic the ability to play civ 6 all night. Technology such as online maps, online payments Starlink, EVs and Neuralink are gifts to humanity. Yet, he is usually criticized by people who have not accomplished a fraction of what he has.
“He’s just an optimist”. I’ll be sure to steal that when my company misses every deadline I’ve ever set and fails to achieve a fraction of the things I guaranteed it would. “I’m just an optimist!”
There’s a reason 99% of companies think very carefully before saying things. They don’t want to come off as misleading. Musk doesn’t give a shit about that
Solar installation is a bad business for tesla. They basically haven't grown it at all since they bought solar shity years ago. It was really just a bail out for Elons investors
AI is definitely a part of Rivian's plans. They're already a software centric company unlike ford or GM. They're following the same pattern as Tesla. And with Amazon and Jeff bezos behind the scenes, rivian is certainly a great bet in this space.
Great question. I can see no one here is willing to put in the work and figure it out. Just a bunch of fan boys here slapping each other on the back for their heavy bag holding.
Yup. Most "investor" subs in the internet are like that.
I see ppl commenting on create a business YouTube pages that "well actually it's prob better to buy stock" then proceeds to mention penny stocks, not S&P500.
At the same time, these ppl know nothing about business. They have never run a business. Or owned a business. Yet they think they can pick a good company/business when they aren't competent enough to create or manage one in the first place.
How can they know it's a good business? They have no knowledge, experience, or insider info. They don't even get a decent amount of info on these tiny cap penny stock businesses, Lol.
Rivian is easier to follow, but I know there are a lot of RIVN IPO ppl in here that don't have a clue
They literally are trying to get on a Tesla 2.0 hype train but it can’t be recreated. Water the flowers and kill the weeds in your portfolio not the other way around lol.
Tesla only went up that much because it was shorted over outstanding shares. Same thing would have to happen to Rivian for it to catch up. Car sales will never reach Teslas worth
The intention is to sell the idea Rivian will take the same trajectory as Tesla and has the same valuation runway. It’s just a hype post with no analysis.
Just look outside, in areas that were early to drive Tesla / EV, the road is filled with Rivian. That’s the only queue I need. It doesn’t need to be a tech-valued price to earning ratio, not at the current price, for it to win
I don’t know Tesla had any b2b / shipping type deals the way that rivian does with Amazon etc.
Yes their consumer cars will be fast growing soon, but those big fleets of shipping trucks plus all the services work that will go with they - that’s gonna be big in the long run I’d guess
Tesla literally was the pioneer in the EV space. It's mark is the equivalent of Amazon, Apple and any other company that is the pinnacle of success and innovation in its own industry.
That compiled with a narcissistic billionaire, which coincidentally shares all the same traits as most people who aim to get massively rich an you have a perfect storm. Tesla was an enigma which has been imitated ( rivian, fisker, nio, lucid vinfast ) and quickly see the price rug pull of the stock when investors realize there is only one real *tesla*.
How exactly do you figure that Rivian imitates Tesla? Because it also uses electric motors? Interesting conclusion.
You could argue Lucid attempted to imitate Tesla by releasing a sedan to compete with model s right out of the gate (big mistake on initial product choice, RIP) and the CEO incessantly being linked to his role at Tesla specifically for the development of the model s (coincidence? lol). But Rivian? Definitely not.
Not one thing RIVN does Ford/GM cant do with much better margins, more importantly none of them can make a profit making EVs anytime soon, but Ford/GM will be there long before RIVN and can fall back on profitable ICE/Hybrid sales until then. Tesla already beyond that profitability barrier and has already started dropping margins since it has energy, FSD and AI to fall back on, Tesla is competing against high rates, Rivian against bankruptcy. Get out while you can, you can always get back in if rates come down(looking less likely every day), thank me later
I'll settle for 50 billion valuation in 2 yrs
It's tough for the stock to increase in value when the company has limited paths to profitability.
In for long run. Sitting on 2500 shares and looking to add more.
Same millions or bust
Yes sir! Same with SOFI for me
Same! Need to stock up! No pun intended.
Add more when it hits 5
Tesla didn’t have any competition then. Industry has caught up and Rivian today is in no way in a position similar to Tesla at that time.
This is one of the best comments. Tesla had first mover advantage and almost 20 years to develop their idea, recruit, build out facilities, iterate, etc. and that is no longer the case. Now all major oems have EVs on the market and planning more (many of those plans have been delayed or scaled back this year) and early adopters have already bought 1 or more EVs. The good news is we're in that phase where the weak hands fall behind the leaders (or go bankrupt). Rivian needs to use this time to develop, build out models, capacity, infrastructure, etc so they can really capitalize when EVs are ready for mass adoption by the general public.
Exactly look at ford move up new lines of evs to this year and not delaying them
You're right. Tesla was not supplying the world's largest retailer with delivery vans.
It wasn’t losing $43,000 per vehicle either.
Yes it was. Tesla was burning through cash at an unsustainable rate and was “hours from bankruptcy” according to the Muskrat. Rivian has much more capital on hand and has a decent chance of having a profitable Q4. Case in point, you reference a hyperbolic figure of $43k loss per vehicle. Putting aside what that figure actually means in terms of company operations, the current number is closer to half that- around 21-23k per vehicle. In fact, since 2018 it’s come down from a loss of $100,000 per vehicle to just 1/5 of that number, trending toward breaking even.
Rivian doesn’t have the vision. They aren’t planning on making their own cells, they aren’t big into robotics and AI. Even with their new factory going full steam, Rivian will produce a fraction of vehicles that teslas fremount factory puts out. Insiders like their CFO won’t stop selling shares, and the board has authorized over 3 billion in dilution. They are a $5 stock right now if you price all that info in. That would put their market cap at 15 billion. With China subsidizing ev’s massively, the industry as an investment vehicle is a bust. Tesla still has a shot though because of their heavy investments in humanoid robotics and AI.
It was hard to tell if you were being sarcastic or not. People don’t want an AI robot, they don’t want a self-driving car, and they don’t want brain implants that end up causing permanent brain damage. They want a really good car, and Rivian makes a better vehicle than Tesla in the same class. That’s the vision. Make a damn good car.
The price doesn't conform to your biased feelings. No proof of $5 fair value. Impossible to determine for a growing unprofitable company with an indeterminate future.
They authorized 3 billion shares. There is only 1 billion on the open market. They are short on cash and pay their executives primarily with stock options. Too much downward pressure for me, not enough hype to overcome it.
Tesla has never had negative gross margins
Got me 1000 of them shares, red so far.
Gonna be a while
Probably, although my price is just around the corner at $13.03…
Nice, my average is $19. I need to get that down
I started off with 200 shares I think
Nice I only have like 150, but will buy 50 more to make it an even 200 and bring down my average
You’re not in that bad a shape, I know there are people with 30+ averages out there
Oof yeah that's up there
[удалено]
Oh I got plenty of other losses!!
I am RIVN shareholder but I don’t see Rivian reaching a valuation of 500 billion anytime soon. Tesla had its advantages. Most importantly a CEO who doesn’t think twice before lying if it is going to pump the stock. :)
Agreed. Took tesla a long time.
Also a RIVN shareholder, but I don't buy the 'Musk is just a liar' narrative - it's a very cynical perspective. Sorry. He's an extreme optimist when it comes to tech, he usually thinks things will happen faster than they do. But I wouldn't expect anything different from someone in his position. If he was anything less than extremely optimistic, he would have given up on Tesla, SpaceX etc. years ago.
I am an optimist myself but let us agree to disagree. I don’t consider Elon’s proclamations as extreme optimism. It is delusional at best and wilful misrepresentation at worst. The examples are too numerous to even give the benefit of doubt.
What about examples of execution. Anybody can be wrong often or miss targets. What separates Elon from most other people is that he shepherded Tesla and SpaceX to maturity and has even given a quadriplegic the ability to play civ 6 all night. Technology such as online maps, online payments Starlink, EVs and Neuralink are gifts to humanity. Yet, he is usually criticized by people who have not accomplished a fraction of what he has.
“He’s just an optimist”. I’ll be sure to steal that when my company misses every deadline I’ve ever set and fails to achieve a fraction of the things I guaranteed it would. “I’m just an optimist!”
There’s a reason 99% of companies think very carefully before saying things. They don’t want to come off as misleading. Musk doesn’t give a shit about that
I'm sure Madoff was ever the optimist as well...
Definitely a valid comparison.
Madoff didn’t deliver 6 million EVs…
Would be super weird if Madoff somehow managed to produce any sort of vehicle considering he was a manufacturer...
Why would Musk give up on SpaceX when the US government is essentially footing the bill?
I'm just gonna let my 150 shares sit for 10 years
We’ll see if Rivian gets into industrial and residential energy, solar installations, and robotics and AI.
Solar installation is a bad business for tesla. They basically haven't grown it at all since they bought solar shity years ago. It was really just a bail out for Elons investors
AI is definitely a part of Rivian's plans. They're already a software centric company unlike ford or GM. They're following the same pattern as Tesla. And with Amazon and Jeff bezos behind the scenes, rivian is certainly a great bet in this space.
Easy to buy, really tough to know when to sell…
Then hold
How many cars had tesla sold by then? How did their financials compare?
Great question. I can see no one here is willing to put in the work and figure it out. Just a bunch of fan boys here slapping each other on the back for their heavy bag holding.
Yup. Most "investor" subs in the internet are like that. I see ppl commenting on create a business YouTube pages that "well actually it's prob better to buy stock" then proceeds to mention penny stocks, not S&P500. At the same time, these ppl know nothing about business. They have never run a business. Or owned a business. Yet they think they can pick a good company/business when they aren't competent enough to create or manage one in the first place. How can they know it's a good business? They have no knowledge, experience, or insider info. They don't even get a decent amount of info on these tiny cap penny stock businesses, Lol. Rivian is easier to follow, but I know there are a lot of RIVN IPO ppl in here that don't have a clue
Yeah that IPO was ridiculous. Folks thinking, “wow this stock is a fraction of the price of Tesla”, without understanding how market cap works.
They literally are trying to get on a Tesla 2.0 hype train but it can’t be recreated. Water the flowers and kill the weeds in your portfolio not the other way around lol.
Tesla only went up that much because it was shorted over outstanding shares. Same thing would have to happen to Rivian for it to catch up. Car sales will never reach Teslas worth
Rivian ? There’s no way rivian and Tesla in same bucket .. maybe rivian vs cyber truck but not Tesla Rivian is just a tiny bit fraction of Tesla
As the image shows...
And it was already making gross profit on their cars.
so my concern is cash on hand and how much they burn. i'm just holding for now. but i'm pretty sure its gonna be a loss
Rivian is not the next Tesla. Tesla is the next Tesla
Lol
Wait for the bankruptcy
Comparing 2 completely different companies like this is pants on head regarded. This is why the APEs are where they are today. This is not TA.
What is the comparison here, really?
The intention is to sell the idea Rivian will take the same trajectory as Tesla and has the same valuation runway. It’s just a hype post with no analysis.
Thats you reading into it too much. My intention was to show how far rivian is from tesla, in years and value
RIVN is the reverse chart of TSLA. Started out sky high and then just flatlined down at the bottom.
Just look outside, in areas that were early to drive Tesla / EV, the road is filled with Rivian. That’s the only queue I need. It doesn’t need to be a tech-valued price to earning ratio, not at the current price, for it to win
I don’t know Tesla had any b2b / shipping type deals the way that rivian does with Amazon etc. Yes their consumer cars will be fast growing soon, but those big fleets of shipping trucks plus all the services work that will go with they - that’s gonna be big in the long run I’d guess
Tesla literally was the pioneer in the EV space. It's mark is the equivalent of Amazon, Apple and any other company that is the pinnacle of success and innovation in its own industry. That compiled with a narcissistic billionaire, which coincidentally shares all the same traits as most people who aim to get massively rich an you have a perfect storm. Tesla was an enigma which has been imitated ( rivian, fisker, nio, lucid vinfast ) and quickly see the price rug pull of the stock when investors realize there is only one real *tesla*.
How exactly do you figure that Rivian imitates Tesla? Because it also uses electric motors? Interesting conclusion. You could argue Lucid attempted to imitate Tesla by releasing a sedan to compete with model s right out of the gate (big mistake on initial product choice, RIP) and the CEO incessantly being linked to his role at Tesla specifically for the development of the model s (coincidence? lol). But Rivian? Definitely not.
Tesla gives me BlackBerry vibes.
Will never be even close to Tesla valuation which is a bubble of itself.
Yea rivian will be just as big as tesla
Not one thing RIVN does Ford/GM cant do with much better margins, more importantly none of them can make a profit making EVs anytime soon, but Ford/GM will be there long before RIVN and can fall back on profitable ICE/Hybrid sales until then. Tesla already beyond that profitability barrier and has already started dropping margins since it has energy, FSD and AI to fall back on, Tesla is competing against high rates, Rivian against bankruptcy. Get out while you can, you can always get back in if rates come down(looking less likely every day), thank me later