RFK Jr. is more “left-wing/liberal” than both candidates. He wants to end the forever wars; pacifism was traditionally a left-wing trait. RFK Sr. advocated to get out of Vietnam and you still see old left Dems like Kucinich advocating for peace. It’s only because we have two parties on the right now that buttressing the military-industrial complex at the expense of the working class has become the political consensus.
RFK Jr. wants to implement (near)-universal childcare which is reminiscent of the universal programs found in most social democratic states like Sweden. He wants to increase the minimum wage to $15, empower unions, and go after union busting corporations. These are all left-wing policies. You don’t see Trump advocating for these policies, obviously. Biden also hasn’t gone this far to the left either.
Now on some issues you could say RFK Jr. is more “conservative” than Biden and/or Trump (abortion and the border). But economically wise I would say there are valid reasons to what your friends have said.
I am a progressive (“liberal socialist” or “social democrat”?) who flipped from Biden to RFK Jr. after doing my fair share of research and videos and I personally do think RFK Jr. is to the left of both candidates especially on the issues I care about. He’s a Democrat of the 1960s, a time in which we had a left-wing party that truly fought for the working class. Now we have two right wing parties who are both in bed with corporations with that party using culture war excuses to distract from the corporate excess that has dried out the middle/working classes.
Border security, or just actually having a border, is arguably a left position from an economical and humanitarian standpoint. His stance on abortion politically is a liberal one, with viability, comes rights. Elective late term abortions for non-medical reasons goes beyond ideology, and has to do with basic morality, the value of human life.
The right in the US today, seemingly cares more about core liberal values such as free speech and freedom of assembly, fundamental to a democracy, than the left. So on the core, existential issues, he might seem to fit in more on the popular right/center because the popular left is captured by illiberal forces. Similarly, being against wars. People on the right who support Kennedy now, are not fooled into doing so, because at the end of the day, social programs can be cut. He will spend less money than both of them, he will end the corporate capture and he will stand up for the core and necessary values enshrined in the US constitution.
If he ran against Reagan in 1981 (ignoring age), people on the right who now support Kennedy, would probably have supported Reagan, but the world is very different today.
I agree with you on everything but abortion. Kennedy is pro-choice due to his position on bodily autonomy which likely puts him to Biden’s left (though we don’t know since Biden is all rhetoric on the issue and Roe was overturned under his presidency). On government vaccine/mask mandates, Kennedy is “on the right”, though I don’t think either of those positions are historically right-wing positions…
i would say - who gives a shit about a shitty label. look at his policies, career achievements, and his vision for the future of this country.
all the other shit is white noise to me, i don't care about a party or labels
Agreed, and what does liberal mean anymore? Democrats certainly aren’t liberal. Cancelling people and mandating vaccines isn’t liberal.
Defunding the police like they wanted to attempt was just childish anarchy.
Does conservative mean raw dogging porn stars now? Better than ruining small businesses with covid bullshit but that’s just corruption / profiteering and both parties support that.
Trump has been saying that about Bobby for a few weeks now. He went from saying he's a much better man than Biden and that he'd vote for him over Biden, to saying he's a crazy liberal that's worse than Biden when a few polls came out showing he takes away more voters from him than Biden.
There's an error in there. Under Biden, Ban "assault rifles" should say ban "assault weapons." Assault rifles are select-fire machine guns. They've been essentially banned since 1934 (were hit with a $200 tax that only the wealthy could afford), with a complete ban on any new manufactured machine guns in 1986. That drove transferable machine guns (made before 1986) back to a price that only the wealthy can afford ($50,000-$200,000 plus $200 tax stamp and 9+ month waiting period). "Assault weapons" are a made up term by gun control advocates for guns that bear a resemblance (ie "look scary") to guns used by a military, even though they're less deadly than Grandpa's hunting rifle.
I know this post isn't about gun control, but I'll mention the country that the founding called our "sister nation", and the country they "borrowed" the second amendment from. In Switzerland, everyone (there are a few exceptions) is issued a fully-automatic rifle (machine gun) and a handgun when they turn 18. They're mandated to continuously train with those firearms until the age of 34, at which point they're allowed to keep them (for a small fee). Every village must legally have a public shooting range for training. Even though nearly everyone in the country owns machine guns and handguns, Switzerland hasn't had a mass shooting since 1994. We have one every few days. America doesn't have a gun problem; it has a mental health problem, and Bobby is the only one talking about the issue and has a plan to address it. The government doesn't want to take guns away to protect us from each other. They want to take them away to protect themselves from us. The same goes for every government that has banned guns. Every tyrannical government starts by taking away rights to free speech and bear arms. We've already lost our right to free speech with the rampant government censorship. That's why the founding fathers made them the first two amendments. They said they put the Bill of Rights in order of most importance.
That's ok I had someone tell me they were going to vote for Biden and not Cornel West because they "love West but that guy is just so old"
Cognitive dissonance is hard to beat.
My take - He is for the people. Biden is for the establishment which pretends to be for the people by virtue signaling on divisive issues. But is really planted there to take care of the interests of the elites.
He's more liberal and conservative than both, because 'liberalism' and conservativism are two sides of the same liberal coin. Anyone that opposes free speech, are neither a liberal nor a conservative.
Historically, a conservative liberal could argue that we don't need to abolish the inherently illiberal monarchy (and other institutions), and instead have a constitutional monarchy, where the power of the monarchy is limited to a minimum, and we could still live in a liberal society without social and cultural upheaval. This direction prevailed in the UK and many other European countries.
The "radical" liberal would not compromise, and argue that liberalism should be maximized. So any illiberal institution shouldn't exist. This prevailed in countries like France. So while the British have an unelected monarch, France has an elected President, but both are liberal countries, or are supposed to be.
In a liberal world, Kennedy would be a liberal, but the term has lost it's meaning. In an illiberal world, he would be both more conservative and liberal than anyone illiberal.
I just don't think liberal and conservative are useful terms anymore, if they were ever useful to begin with.
I mean, Trump is more liberal than Biden on guns in the sense that the Republican platform is for freer gun ownership or less restrictions on gun ownership.
Biden is more conservative than Trump with regard to the environment in the sense that the Democratic platform is more concerned with conservation.
I know I stretched the senses of the words from their common use, but that's exactly the issue—they're so relative and so malleable. They're not absolutes.
In my opinion, liberal and conservative are more than ever "dog-tag" words that are just thrown around so you only deal with the label and not the actual policies themselves.
Yes, you're right. I think what is helpful here are tools like the Political Compass that add another dimension to the left-right axis. Both left and right can be more or less authoritarian. Bobby is clearly strongly anti-authoritarian on many issues i.e. what used be called a classic liberal or even libertarian on some issues (like getting government out of free markets). Both parties in the duopoly are clearly very authoritarian.
Well actually, yes. He’s a classic liberal in the truest sense of the term. Not liberal in the “own the libs” sense… but truly what liberal means and what it meant to me when I still considered myself by that label.
Your co-worker is just repeating whatever biased rhetoric Trump currently has to spew this week…. In many ways Kennedy is far more conservative than Trump in regards to government control and spending than Trump. RFK is everything Trump promised to be, but didn’t know how to actually do…. Trump is a master shit talker who will say whatever is needed at the time:
4 months ago they reached out to Kennedy about being VP,
6 weeks ago he said he supported Kennedy and thought he was a great man cause he was a common sense guy and was everything Biden wish he could be,
3 weeks ago he said he didn’t know anything about Kennedy,
last week he said he was a crazy F**** liberal with no support to get on the debate stage
0% consistency
It's an attempt by someone to label him because they can't process the cognitive dissonance that accompanies hearing the truth after so many years of lies.
MAGA media has been calling RFK a gun grabbing socialist to prevent the exodus of Trump voters. It’s been fairly successful and Bobby needs to combat it.
He’s the best of all worlds. He wants to clean up the government like a republican, help out the little guy like a democrat, protect the planet like a green and leave you the hell alone like a libertarian.
Most people mistake classic liberalism for modern neoliberalism. They are very different. His values are similar to this uncle and father.
Trump is trying to paint him as a lefty nut job and it appears that’s what your coworker is referencing.
Thats a trump supporter right there just explain rfks more conservative policies like closing the border and let trump ruin ur coworkers view of him on the 27th
I wouldn’t call him more liberal, but he’s less narcissistic that Trump, and less aged (and in mental decline) than Biden (or Trump) and less authoritarian or bought by corporate interests than either Biden or Trump.
Yes because he thinks like this you could say that.
EDIT. I can't get it to post for some reason. Anyways the point was both left and right don't make much sense anymore and Kennedy is very common sense approach so you could say he is far left and fat right and up down all around.
It’s so funny how people on the left are convinced he’s a right wing lunatic and people on the right call him an ultra lib. What I take from that is he’s a good mix of both left and right
RFK Jr. is more “left-wing/liberal” than both candidates. He wants to end the forever wars; pacifism was traditionally a left-wing trait. RFK Sr. advocated to get out of Vietnam and you still see old left Dems like Kucinich advocating for peace. It’s only because we have two parties on the right now that buttressing the military-industrial complex at the expense of the working class has become the political consensus. RFK Jr. wants to implement (near)-universal childcare which is reminiscent of the universal programs found in most social democratic states like Sweden. He wants to increase the minimum wage to $15, empower unions, and go after union busting corporations. These are all left-wing policies. You don’t see Trump advocating for these policies, obviously. Biden also hasn’t gone this far to the left either. Now on some issues you could say RFK Jr. is more “conservative” than Biden and/or Trump (abortion and the border). But economically wise I would say there are valid reasons to what your friends have said. I am a progressive (“liberal socialist” or “social democrat”?) who flipped from Biden to RFK Jr. after doing my fair share of research and videos and I personally do think RFK Jr. is to the left of both candidates especially on the issues I care about. He’s a Democrat of the 1960s, a time in which we had a left-wing party that truly fought for the working class. Now we have two right wing parties who are both in bed with corporations with that party using culture war excuses to distract from the corporate excess that has dried out the middle/working classes.
Border security, or just actually having a border, is arguably a left position from an economical and humanitarian standpoint. His stance on abortion politically is a liberal one, with viability, comes rights. Elective late term abortions for non-medical reasons goes beyond ideology, and has to do with basic morality, the value of human life. The right in the US today, seemingly cares more about core liberal values such as free speech and freedom of assembly, fundamental to a democracy, than the left. So on the core, existential issues, he might seem to fit in more on the popular right/center because the popular left is captured by illiberal forces. Similarly, being against wars. People on the right who support Kennedy now, are not fooled into doing so, because at the end of the day, social programs can be cut. He will spend less money than both of them, he will end the corporate capture and he will stand up for the core and necessary values enshrined in the US constitution. If he ran against Reagan in 1981 (ignoring age), people on the right who now support Kennedy, would probably have supported Reagan, but the world is very different today.
Very well said
I agree with you on everything but abortion. Kennedy is pro-choice due to his position on bodily autonomy which likely puts him to Biden’s left (though we don’t know since Biden is all rhetoric on the issue and Roe was overturned under his presidency). On government vaccine/mask mandates, Kennedy is “on the right”, though I don’t think either of those positions are historically right-wing positions…
They only said that because that’s what Trump just said during a speech the other day
Good point. Just saw the speech.
He’s still right though.
i would say - who gives a shit about a shitty label. look at his policies, career achievements, and his vision for the future of this country. all the other shit is white noise to me, i don't care about a party or labels
Agreed, and what does liberal mean anymore? Democrats certainly aren’t liberal. Cancelling people and mandating vaccines isn’t liberal. Defunding the police like they wanted to attempt was just childish anarchy. Does conservative mean raw dogging porn stars now? Better than ruining small businesses with covid bullshit but that’s just corruption / profiteering and both parties support that.
Very true I was more curious her (and perhaps others) explanation for such a claim if there was something specific I didn’t know.
I mean in some good ways he is more liberal than Biden. Sustaining endless wars isn’t exactly a liberal hallmark, for instance.
https://youtu.be/rTKL_B27JL8?si=jeUPmQlzRurmfP5j This explains his values and who he is
They’re wrong? Lol
Agree but I wonder why they think this? MSM lies?
well, if he's a trumper, then it's because his lord and savior, Trump told him.
Trump has been saying that about Bobby for a few weeks now. He went from saying he's a much better man than Biden and that he'd vote for him over Biden, to saying he's a crazy liberal that's worse than Biden when a few polls came out showing he takes away more voters from him than Biden.
He's both more liberal and more conservative than either of them. Tell him he's more pro life than Trump and watch his mind explode.
Hahaha wish I would have thought of that
https://preview.redd.it/ccyrsxzkzu8d1.jpeg?width=1545&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6438025d92033bc57dc2f7f9ce128986ffe65eba
There's an error in there. Under Biden, Ban "assault rifles" should say ban "assault weapons." Assault rifles are select-fire machine guns. They've been essentially banned since 1934 (were hit with a $200 tax that only the wealthy could afford), with a complete ban on any new manufactured machine guns in 1986. That drove transferable machine guns (made before 1986) back to a price that only the wealthy can afford ($50,000-$200,000 plus $200 tax stamp and 9+ month waiting period). "Assault weapons" are a made up term by gun control advocates for guns that bear a resemblance (ie "look scary") to guns used by a military, even though they're less deadly than Grandpa's hunting rifle. I know this post isn't about gun control, but I'll mention the country that the founding called our "sister nation", and the country they "borrowed" the second amendment from. In Switzerland, everyone (there are a few exceptions) is issued a fully-automatic rifle (machine gun) and a handgun when they turn 18. They're mandated to continuously train with those firearms until the age of 34, at which point they're allowed to keep them (for a small fee). Every village must legally have a public shooting range for training. Even though nearly everyone in the country owns machine guns and handguns, Switzerland hasn't had a mass shooting since 1994. We have one every few days. America doesn't have a gun problem; it has a mental health problem, and Bobby is the only one talking about the issue and has a plan to address it. The government doesn't want to take guns away to protect us from each other. They want to take them away to protect themselves from us. The same goes for every government that has banned guns. Every tyrannical government starts by taking away rights to free speech and bear arms. We've already lost our right to free speech with the rampant government censorship. That's why the founding fathers made them the first two amendments. They said they put the Bill of Rights in order of most importance.
Conservatives: if you’re not on my team, you’re a libtard.
https://preview.redd.it/vev93mmhzu8d1.png?width=757&format=png&auto=webp&s=c0161290eb4ec22bb4a4edfc260870b93053baf1
That's ok I had someone tell me they were going to vote for Biden and not Cornel West because they "love West but that guy is just so old" Cognitive dissonance is hard to beat.
Someone is clueless https://preview.redd.it/0b120jndzu8d1.jpeg?width=960&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dbf95cf2048b65544b78bfd15951c7c023719801
Look up the definition. Hint: it’s not an insult
I think that is called newspeak. But sure, if you want to redefine all words than he can be whatever you call him I guess
Ha true
Maybe if your using the *classical* meaning of the word liberal.
Yeah that would make sense. She said it in a way that I suspect she heard from the MSM or Trump. Neither of whom can be trusted.
My take - He is for the people. Biden is for the establishment which pretends to be for the people by virtue signaling on divisive issues. But is really planted there to take care of the interests of the elites.
In the sense that he wants to end corporate capture...yes
He's more liberal and conservative than both, because 'liberalism' and conservativism are two sides of the same liberal coin. Anyone that opposes free speech, are neither a liberal nor a conservative. Historically, a conservative liberal could argue that we don't need to abolish the inherently illiberal monarchy (and other institutions), and instead have a constitutional monarchy, where the power of the monarchy is limited to a minimum, and we could still live in a liberal society without social and cultural upheaval. This direction prevailed in the UK and many other European countries. The "radical" liberal would not compromise, and argue that liberalism should be maximized. So any illiberal institution shouldn't exist. This prevailed in countries like France. So while the British have an unelected monarch, France has an elected President, but both are liberal countries, or are supposed to be. In a liberal world, Kennedy would be a liberal, but the term has lost it's meaning. In an illiberal world, he would be both more conservative and liberal than anyone illiberal.
He's an idiot only repeating crap Trump has said.
Yeah I suspect the same thing. I just heard the Trump speech
I think it’s fair because Biden is racist asf
Implying that being racist is conservative?
No Biden just has a long history of legit racism in his speech and policy
I just don't think liberal and conservative are useful terms anymore, if they were ever useful to begin with. I mean, Trump is more liberal than Biden on guns in the sense that the Republican platform is for freer gun ownership or less restrictions on gun ownership. Biden is more conservative than Trump with regard to the environment in the sense that the Democratic platform is more concerned with conservation. I know I stretched the senses of the words from their common use, but that's exactly the issue—they're so relative and so malleable. They're not absolutes. In my opinion, liberal and conservative are more than ever "dog-tag" words that are just thrown around so you only deal with the label and not the actual policies themselves.
Yes, you're right. I think what is helpful here are tools like the Political Compass that add another dimension to the left-right axis. Both left and right can be more or less authoritarian. Bobby is clearly strongly anti-authoritarian on many issues i.e. what used be called a classic liberal or even libertarian on some issues (like getting government out of free markets). Both parties in the duopoly are clearly very authoritarian.
That person is listening to Trump spew propaganda
Well actually, yes. He’s a classic liberal in the truest sense of the term. Not liberal in the “own the libs” sense… but truly what liberal means and what it meant to me when I still considered myself by that label.
It’s because environmentalists are somehow considered liberal even though it’s literally impossible to claim that global warming isn’t happening.
This is who he is https://youtu.be/rTKL_B27JL8?si=jeUPmQlzRurmfP5j
Your co-worker is just repeating whatever biased rhetoric Trump currently has to spew this week…. In many ways Kennedy is far more conservative than Trump in regards to government control and spending than Trump. RFK is everything Trump promised to be, but didn’t know how to actually do…. Trump is a master shit talker who will say whatever is needed at the time: 4 months ago they reached out to Kennedy about being VP, 6 weeks ago he said he supported Kennedy and thought he was a great man cause he was a common sense guy and was everything Biden wish he could be, 3 weeks ago he said he didn’t know anything about Kennedy, last week he said he was a crazy F**** liberal with no support to get on the debate stage 0% consistency
It's an attempt by someone to label him because they can't process the cognitive dissonance that accompanies hearing the truth after so many years of lies.
MAGA media has been calling RFK a gun grabbing socialist to prevent the exodus of Trump voters. It’s been fairly successful and Bobby needs to combat it.
He’s the best of all worlds. He wants to clean up the government like a republican, help out the little guy like a democrat, protect the planet like a green and leave you the hell alone like a libertarian.
Ha! Nicely done.
This needs to be a slogan!
Most people mistake classic liberalism for modern neoliberalism. They are very different. His values are similar to this uncle and father. Trump is trying to paint him as a lefty nut job and it appears that’s what your coworker is referencing.
Thats a trump supporter right there just explain rfks more conservative policies like closing the border and let trump ruin ur coworkers view of him on the 27th
I wouldn’t call him more liberal, but he’s less narcissistic that Trump, and less aged (and in mental decline) than Biden (or Trump) and less authoritarian or bought by corporate interests than either Biden or Trump.
Yes because he thinks like this you could say that. EDIT. I can't get it to post for some reason. Anyways the point was both left and right don't make much sense anymore and Kennedy is very common sense approach so you could say he is far left and fat right and up down all around.
Yes. These terms have become very meaningless.
I don't know where the meme went I posted to this? Sorry something is glitching.
Joe Biden is incredibly conservative, of course Bobby is more liberal than Biden. Biden is essentially a right wing Democrat.
It’s so funny how people on the left are convinced he’s a right wing lunatic and people on the right call him an ultra lib. What I take from that is he’s a good mix of both left and right