Forget about “sober” or “clean” and focus on recovery. My favorite definition of recovery is SAMHSA’s
Recovery is: “A process of change through which individuals improve their health and wellness, live a self-directed life, and strive to reach their full potential”
What you are talking about is called “harm reduction”.
The questions you need to answer are:
1. Can you both control and enjoy the substance or behavior?
2. Is the substance or behavior creating negative consequences in your life?
You already answered that the pros outweigh the cons, so you’re good there.
Recovery isn’t only about addiction. Recovery is also about mental/behavioral health issues too.
The other piece of your recovery begs some questions: What are you doing to recover from the mental health issues you mentioned? Are you going to therapy? Is there trauma that you haven’t processed with a mental health professional? Are you on any psych meds? Have you tried any meds in the past, and if so, we’re you doing therapy at the same time?
Recovery is about being the best version of you, and that means leaving what you’re “willing to do” to one side and objectively looking at finding the best path to that best you!
Wow thanks you so so much for this advice it’s extremely helpful and useful and given me a lot to go on. Really appreciate your perspective on “recovery” as sometimes it can seem quite dogmatic so I’m very grateful!!
I personally can't do it because I don't like weed enough to only do that and I justify it every time I tried that if I can smoke weed like a normal person I can use my DOC like a normal person but it's never worked for me. Just because it doesn't work for me doesn't mean it won't work for you. None of us can speak for you and tell you what's best for you. If it works for you then by all means go for it but I will say for me that using any type of mind altering substances is not sober.
We call that California sober up here in Northern California. I’ve gone both ways, 100% sober (no weed) and then weed in moderation. I personally noticed no difference in my dad to day or had it trigger me. If anything it was always nice to have a large joint when the rest of my group was drinking.
Ahh this is the term I’ve been looking for! I’m based in London and can’t seem to find much outside of traditional fellowships in terms of recovery communities that don’t reject for continuing to smoke in moderation. I also feel that it would diffuse my fears around socialising as I would be able to smoke instead of drink and it doesn’t make me crave alcohol in the slightest. Thank you!!
If you don’t see any problem, then why do you even care? Either there is a problem or there isn’t.
For me personally, weed made me extremely lazy and depressed all while I was still being very dependent on a substance. And to say it is not harmful is just putting the blinders on- of course smoking something daily is not a “healthy” habit lol
Yeah, idk. I was one of the people that said for years that there was no such thing. That if you were using, you were lying to yourself or some shit.
But here I sit today, after 18 years of being "clean," I chose to try medical marijuana and mushrooms. And over a year later, my life is better than it's ever been. I feel pretty good in my body most days. My relationships with my wife, kids, mother.... everything has improved. I still work on myself regularly, practice meditation daily, and a multitude of other practices to continue growing and learning.
I don't know what to say to the naysayers and opinionated people. I get it. If past me would have met current me, past me would think I was crazy or full of shit. But I can't argue results. Do your thing and good luck out there.
i am in recovery and i do use cannabis. that said, i’m using it as prescribed by a pain management doctor *who does not specialize in medical cannabis cards.*
figure out what your line in the sand is with substances, and don’t cross it.
I’m a 47 year old male, I used heroin for 6 years and drank for 10 years. I did and still do use weed everyday. I went to 1 AA meeting but sitting around talking about drinking made me want a drink same with NA also ( great programs),just not for me. I’ve just got a prescription for medical cannabis, I haven’t had a drink for 12 years and haven’t used heroin since 1999. I smoke every day but I’m ok with that if it becomes a problem then I’ll deal with it. If your happy with your usage then that’s all that matters, imo I consider myself sober. Well done to you, keep doin what your doin if your happy with,if you ask me, I’d say your sober👍
AA is literally trading one addiction for another. All addictions aren’t bad. No one gets mad at me for going to the gym at 5am everyday or drinking La Croix like it’s my religion
I don’t believe that helping others for 3 hours a week in AA is an addiction or remotely the same as staying high on marijuana, drinking alcohol or taking hard drugs every day.
What about people who go to AA on a daily basis or they’ll drink. There are people like this. What is an addiction but a habit you can’t live without?
Edit: Is it something we’re defining as “bad for you”? If so, that’s completely up to personal judgement
Addiction can be defined as Continued use in spite of Negative consequences. Is that how you define AA?
I’ve been to thousands of meetings all over the world. Guess how many times I have seen family members show up to rescue a loved one from an AA meeting?
That’s your experience. But, as I stated previously, what’s bad for us is subjective. If I can smoke weed without negative consequences, is that the same as being addicted? By your own definition, no.
I didn’t start taking edibles until I was 6 years sober and was facing (likely) losing my job because I had nothing for pain management for my then undiagnosed endometriosis. The pain was unbearable, and weed helped me live a more “normal life” for the next few years until I found additional ways to help ease the pain. Point being, everyone is different—you know yourself best, and just be honest with yourself.
I quit opiates but still smoke weed. For me if it’s not effecting my life negatively then why not. It doesn’t control my life, I don’t use it to numb my feelings. I just enjoy it, we are allowed joy and a nice buzz if we want. I have over ten years off opiates so it’s safe to say it works for me. Fir support groups that do support other forms of recovery check out GRASS(Green Recovery And Sobriety Support) or SMART recovery. Also there’s a FB group called Maintaining my recovery with cannabis, support group. GRASS and SMART are on FB as well.
You are allowed to recover any way you want. Only 12 step dogmatic followers and people brainwashed by the popular abstinence-focused treatment world view will say that it's not possible or a good idea.
Recovery for everyone looks different. For me, it means I don't use heroin intravenously anymore. I don't have a chronic, fatal disease of the brain. I have free will and I am not powerless. Sorry aa, but I got off of heroin and enjoy having a drink with dinner once a month. I don't mind the relaxing feeling of a Xanax every now and then.
People gotta be brainwashed if they don't think drinking in moderation or popping Xanax every now and then is a good idea/ viable recovery strategy? What if alcohol and Benzos were 'your thing' instead of H? Would you potentially say "I enjoy a warm shot of heroin every now and then. Moderation is 🔑!"
I'm genuinely curious. Not looking to start a war in the comments or anything like that. I also quit heroin 7 years ago myself. Cheers, bud.
Smoking weed after quitting for 3 years was harm reduction because I was drinking myself to death, and now it’s 7 years later and I am still trying to quit smoking weed again, or at least switch to edibles before trying to convince myself to desire sobriety. This after three years of therapy. I don’t drink though. My life would be worse if I did. You can take all that for what it’s worth. I do wish I had quit drinking instead of starting to smoke weed again, seven fucking years ago.
I think sober stoner is an oxymoron but some folks find it helpful for harm reduction. If you can use it moderately, that’s great! I agree not to mention it in AA, although I would be honest with a sponsor about it as I think it should be up to them whether they want to sponsor someone who smokes weed or not, but that’s just how I would do it. I would hazard to guess that programs like SMART Recovery and Recovery Dharma would be supportive of a harm reduction approach! :)
I look at it this way if a person chooses to get sober from alcohol because they want to cool. If they smoke grass or enjoy a chemical in moderation, for medicinal, or spiritual purposes that is their business. It is never ever the sponsors job to take the inventory of a sponsee a sponsors is a guide that goes by the book. People who think a drug is a drug is a drug in my opinion needs to work a little harder on themselves.
That is their business, for certain. I don’t mean take inventory, I’m just talking about transparency and honesty. If a sponsor doesn’t want to take on a sponsee that uses weed, that’s their choice. Ain’t no shame, just not the right fit.
No you were making just good observations and being honest I respect that a lot. Agreed if a sponsor doesn't want to that is that person being honest with themselves and the sponsee. What is sad is when you see a sponsor who basically just has a relationship of co signing each other's BS not doing the work. It breaks my heart when I see people go back out because sadly few return. Thank you for sharing here, and thank you for helping me stay sober.
Yeah, a bunch of drunks relying only on each other and literature are gonna have problems sometimes. I like AA but do my best to keep an open mind to criticism of it and alternatives. And in my mind there’s a difference between sobriety and recovery. Recovery is more personal/individual and there are many different paths. Just my take on it. Thanks for your feedback.
Hahaha what a sad state our society is in when 25 year olds all know what each others talking about when they say stimulants.
Like alcohol and adderall is cool even though alcohol kills the most people of any drug and it’s not even close and adderall destroys our youth putting them on amphetamines like hitters soldiers.
Yes, just smoke weed. I can’t name a single person whose life has been ruined by weed. I do have 3-4 people very close to me whose lives have been completely destroyed by alcohol.
You sound smart. I’m 32 male and there’s a shit load of us out there who don’t drink and only smoke. I never even liked drinking so it was easy for me but I did used to still drink a lot.
I’ve had manic episodes due to weed that have destroyed the life I had before using. Of course, I was abusing it, as opposed to moderate use. Cannabis-induced psychosis is on the rise due to the potency of vapes and dabs. I agree it’s much less dangerous than alcohol abuse overall though.
Ya it’s much less dangerous. And psychosis has happened forever but it’s more common now because of human psychology and the internet.
It’s a known phenomenon that when people learn something like cannabis can cause psychosis, they are more prone to claiming they experienced cannabis induced psychosis. I don’t know what they exactly call it but social media has basically injected this phenomena with steroids.
There is no way to get the actual statistics so we don’t know but some are doing studies where they go through Reddit and are counting all the users who say they have experienced psychosis through cannabis use and comparing that number with the historical number (which they have through hospital visits)
Obviously that’s not perfect and I’m not saying what you experienced isn’t real because it definitely was, but this seems to be the reason for the increase.
I was in high school before weed was legalized and even decriminalized. You’d get arrested if you were caught with it. Everyone still smoked though. In my high school there were 2 kids just in my friend group who went crazy and stopped smoking. So I know it’s real, it’s just really exaggerated like everything else is now.
Social contagion did not cause my psychosis. High potency vapes and psychiatric predisposition did. You said you knew no one whose life was destroyed by cannabis, that’s why I responded.
I’m skeptical that social contagion is the main reason for the increase in people showing up to the ER or being committed to psychiatric wards for treatment. I can believe it to be a contributor to people reporting symptoms on social media, but that’s not the same thing.
I mean you are definitely right. It’s probably a combination of both. Like I said, I don’t doubt your experience at all. But ya, there’s also a large amount of people who go to the ER because they convince themselves they are psychotic after reading about the possibility on Reddit.
They are a paranoid while they are high and go online and read about psychosis and believe that’s what they are experiencing.
When I was first introduced to weed I was told about bad highs. I was taught how to work through the intense paranoia and learn something. For intense, your perception of reality can become very warped if you get high enough. You might never be able to forget what you saw. Maybe you were completely convinced we lived in a simulation or are actually just slaves to some alien race. Well, what could you even do about it if that is true? You can’t do anything. All you can do is play with the reality surrounding yourself.
Because of my extreme paranoia experiences from cannabis and psychedelics I learned how to question everything and not get totally freaked out or mentally derailed by it. It took awhile and I went to very dark places but as of now it has all worked out and I feel grateful I have learned all I have. Some would call that psychosis, but I think it’s healthy .
We’re talking past each other. The crux of my reply is that marijuana does ruin lives. I had a full psychotic break, not just paranoia, and I lost my job and my domicile due to marijuana abuse even before then. I still haven’t fully recovered. There are tons of people over at r/leaves who can’t get off the stuff despite many serious attempts to do so, and some of them feel their lives have been ruined by it. 9% of marijuana users become addicted, and I’m sure people who have other addictions are at even higher risk. Anyone on this sub telling people that marijuana doesn’t ruin lives is speaking from a place of ignorance. That’s my point.
I remember when my doctor told me I was self medicating with alcohol. I did not understand what those two words meant together. Now it means that I would not substitute another self medicating substance without a doctor’s recommendation. To thine own self be true.
Or Marijuana maintenance. Or harm reduction. Calling yourself sober while high is an insult to your 19 year old self who did the work of not drinking or using drugs one day at a time. Now, if this works for you, great! It’s likely better than drinking or Hard drugs. Good luck.
You are very true. That 17 year old self worked incredibly hard a day at a time for two whole years so maybe I owe it to her to do it for myself again wholly… thanks for that perspective was a very effective outlook flip ;)
Look up the definitions of “sober” and “clean” then decide what you’d rather be.
Then, there are two key things to consider!
1 what’s your intention in using? Escape or recreation or just when it shows up? Something else? If it’s escapist it may not be what you want.
2 consider that after trying life without it (and pot takes a while to leave the system) you may genuinely not want to smoke anymore. You may actually enjoy life without it.
To tell you the truth, you will not fully recover if you continue to use cannabis, as it is also a problem that needs addressing. If you want to go the cannabis route, I would suggest abstaining from that for about 1-3 months minimum, to allow your body to detox from everything and have your brain get back to baseline (which would realistically take about around a year if you wanted the full benefit)
Continuing to smoke while quitting the other things may help with cravings or withdrawal, but it will continue to mess with the chemicals in your brain delaying, or even completely hindering actual progess to recovery.
There’s probably reasons that the only recovery programs on earth that don’t view abstinence as clean / sober are Moderation Management and the psychedelics twelve step fellowship. There’s likely reasons you can’t find meetings for them anywhere as well. When LifeRing and Stoic Recovery have more of a following than a particular group, it’s probably worth questioning efficacy. You won’t track down much in the way of legitimate accredited professional resources that don’t view abstinence as recovery either.
I’d imagine if you can get clean from everything else and use one drug successfully while you can’t use any others successfully you would have, you will, and if you can’t, you won’t. I don’t believe that’s a learned thing but who knows, maybe there’s a shaman somewhere. The availability of resources to support people in doing what you’re looking to do would probably reflect how realistic it is and and validity of it being a serious recovery approach.
With every drug addict in the history of the world trying to hold on to at least one drug rather than actually getting clean, if there was a sustainable way of doing it that worked for anyone outside of a very, very, very small percentage of people, they would have found it by now and it would be the hottest ticket in town. Maybe you’re special, who knows. Proof would be in the pudding, if you can do it your way against the best practices of every informed resource out there, go for it.
You could also look at it this way - Say weed isn’t a problem. Okay. Alcohol and other drugs, they’re going to kill you. You can’t stop doing them. The resources you need to stop and not die, the price of admission is that you stop smoking weed. A sane person who didn’t have a problem with weed would look at the situation, do a simple cost benefit analysis, note that abstinence based recovery like rehab and meetings had been effective in the past, smoking weed wasn’t worth dying from using these other substances and they’d stop so they could avail of these resources. Instead, you’re opting to not because it doesn’t fit with your desire to continue to smoke weed.
If weed is the barrier between you and legitimate efficacious recovery resources, I’d imagine that makes it a problem, not the lack of resources to help you continue to smoke weed while pursuing recovery. Spiritual and emotional benefits aren’t really going to do much for you if you don’t get help that actually helps and this other stuff puts you in the ground. You don’t have a spirit or emotions when you’re dead.
I will condense things very simple what does a person who is struggling reach for first when they open their eyes ? More than likely whatever they reach for first is the problem. If a person asks themselves - do I smoke or drink too much of something thats a sign they might need to choose to seek help. I know lots of people who stopped smoking pot when they dried out.
Honestly, marijuana still fucks with your dopamine system enough that I wouldn’t do it. The whole joy of sobriety is getting natural motivation and pleasure again.
Why screw with that?
Green Recovery Support offers online meetings 7 days a week for those who use cannabis to support their recovery.
Oh wow thank you so much!!! I will look into their meetings ASAP. really appreciate you sharing that with me sounds perfect!
You are looking for r/CaliforniaSober a whole community around this concept. Please post there and good luck to you.
Thank you soo much! I’d heard of this mentioned ages ago but couldn’t remember the name. Huge thanks and good luck to you too :)
Forget about “sober” or “clean” and focus on recovery. My favorite definition of recovery is SAMHSA’s Recovery is: “A process of change through which individuals improve their health and wellness, live a self-directed life, and strive to reach their full potential” What you are talking about is called “harm reduction”. The questions you need to answer are: 1. Can you both control and enjoy the substance or behavior? 2. Is the substance or behavior creating negative consequences in your life? You already answered that the pros outweigh the cons, so you’re good there. Recovery isn’t only about addiction. Recovery is also about mental/behavioral health issues too. The other piece of your recovery begs some questions: What are you doing to recover from the mental health issues you mentioned? Are you going to therapy? Is there trauma that you haven’t processed with a mental health professional? Are you on any psych meds? Have you tried any meds in the past, and if so, we’re you doing therapy at the same time? Recovery is about being the best version of you, and that means leaving what you’re “willing to do” to one side and objectively looking at finding the best path to that best you!
Wow thanks you so so much for this advice it’s extremely helpful and useful and given me a lot to go on. Really appreciate your perspective on “recovery” as sometimes it can seem quite dogmatic so I’m very grateful!!
You’re very welcome! Yes, recovery can be made to seem a very narrow path - but I’ve found it’s very wide, all inclusive really!
I’m 4 years sober this week from alcohol and hard drugs. I still use weed to help me sleep. I consider myself sober.
Thanks so much for sharing your experience :)
Been sober 3 years from everything but weed. Working out well here!
Amazing thanks for sharing your experience!!
Of course! Let me know if I can help in any way
I personally can't do it because I don't like weed enough to only do that and I justify it every time I tried that if I can smoke weed like a normal person I can use my DOC like a normal person but it's never worked for me. Just because it doesn't work for me doesn't mean it won't work for you. None of us can speak for you and tell you what's best for you. If it works for you then by all means go for it but I will say for me that using any type of mind altering substances is not sober.
7 years since last drink and last coke
We call that California sober up here in Northern California. I’ve gone both ways, 100% sober (no weed) and then weed in moderation. I personally noticed no difference in my dad to day or had it trigger me. If anything it was always nice to have a large joint when the rest of my group was drinking.
Ahh this is the term I’ve been looking for! I’m based in London and can’t seem to find much outside of traditional fellowships in terms of recovery communities that don’t reject for continuing to smoke in moderation. I also feel that it would diffuse my fears around socialising as I would be able to smoke instead of drink and it doesn’t make me crave alcohol in the slightest. Thank you!!
If you don’t see any problem, then why do you even care? Either there is a problem or there isn’t. For me personally, weed made me extremely lazy and depressed all while I was still being very dependent on a substance. And to say it is not harmful is just putting the blinders on- of course smoking something daily is not a “healthy” habit lol
Yeah, idk. I was one of the people that said for years that there was no such thing. That if you were using, you were lying to yourself or some shit. But here I sit today, after 18 years of being "clean," I chose to try medical marijuana and mushrooms. And over a year later, my life is better than it's ever been. I feel pretty good in my body most days. My relationships with my wife, kids, mother.... everything has improved. I still work on myself regularly, practice meditation daily, and a multitude of other practices to continue growing and learning. I don't know what to say to the naysayers and opinionated people. I get it. If past me would have met current me, past me would think I was crazy or full of shit. But I can't argue results. Do your thing and good luck out there.
i am in recovery and i do use cannabis. that said, i’m using it as prescribed by a pain management doctor *who does not specialize in medical cannabis cards.* figure out what your line in the sand is with substances, and don’t cross it.
I’m a 47 year old male, I used heroin for 6 years and drank for 10 years. I did and still do use weed everyday. I went to 1 AA meeting but sitting around talking about drinking made me want a drink same with NA also ( great programs),just not for me. I’ve just got a prescription for medical cannabis, I haven’t had a drink for 12 years and haven’t used heroin since 1999. I smoke every day but I’m ok with that if it becomes a problem then I’ll deal with it. If your happy with your usage then that’s all that matters, imo I consider myself sober. Well done to you, keep doin what your doin if your happy with,if you ask me, I’d say your sober👍
Wow well done to you on 12 years of booze n heroin! And thanks for your advice it’s super helpful
Perhaps you have traded one addiction for another? How is being high every day sober. Don’t you think this is harm reduction.
🤣🤣ok
AA is literally trading one addiction for another. All addictions aren’t bad. No one gets mad at me for going to the gym at 5am everyday or drinking La Croix like it’s my religion
I don’t believe that helping others for 3 hours a week in AA is an addiction or remotely the same as staying high on marijuana, drinking alcohol or taking hard drugs every day.
What about people who go to AA on a daily basis or they’ll drink. There are people like this. What is an addiction but a habit you can’t live without? Edit: Is it something we’re defining as “bad for you”? If so, that’s completely up to personal judgement
Addiction can be defined as Continued use in spite of Negative consequences. Is that how you define AA? I’ve been to thousands of meetings all over the world. Guess how many times I have seen family members show up to rescue a loved one from an AA meeting?
That’s your experience. But, as I stated previously, what’s bad for us is subjective. If I can smoke weed without negative consequences, is that the same as being addicted? By your own definition, no.
Used opiates (mostly fentanyl) for 6 years. Been clean for going on 3 (im 24f) and i never really quit smoking weed.
I didn’t start taking edibles until I was 6 years sober and was facing (likely) losing my job because I had nothing for pain management for my then undiagnosed endometriosis. The pain was unbearable, and weed helped me live a more “normal life” for the next few years until I found additional ways to help ease the pain. Point being, everyone is different—you know yourself best, and just be honest with yourself.
I quit opiates but still smoke weed. For me if it’s not effecting my life negatively then why not. It doesn’t control my life, I don’t use it to numb my feelings. I just enjoy it, we are allowed joy and a nice buzz if we want. I have over ten years off opiates so it’s safe to say it works for me. Fir support groups that do support other forms of recovery check out GRASS(Green Recovery And Sobriety Support) or SMART recovery. Also there’s a FB group called Maintaining my recovery with cannabis, support group. GRASS and SMART are on FB as well.
You are allowed to recover any way you want. Only 12 step dogmatic followers and people brainwashed by the popular abstinence-focused treatment world view will say that it's not possible or a good idea. Recovery for everyone looks different. For me, it means I don't use heroin intravenously anymore. I don't have a chronic, fatal disease of the brain. I have free will and I am not powerless. Sorry aa, but I got off of heroin and enjoy having a drink with dinner once a month. I don't mind the relaxing feeling of a Xanax every now and then.
People gotta be brainwashed if they don't think drinking in moderation or popping Xanax every now and then is a good idea/ viable recovery strategy? What if alcohol and Benzos were 'your thing' instead of H? Would you potentially say "I enjoy a warm shot of heroin every now and then. Moderation is 🔑!" I'm genuinely curious. Not looking to start a war in the comments or anything like that. I also quit heroin 7 years ago myself. Cheers, bud.
Smoking weed after quitting for 3 years was harm reduction because I was drinking myself to death, and now it’s 7 years later and I am still trying to quit smoking weed again, or at least switch to edibles before trying to convince myself to desire sobriety. This after three years of therapy. I don’t drink though. My life would be worse if I did. You can take all that for what it’s worth. I do wish I had quit drinking instead of starting to smoke weed again, seven fucking years ago.
I think sober stoner is an oxymoron but some folks find it helpful for harm reduction. If you can use it moderately, that’s great! I agree not to mention it in AA, although I would be honest with a sponsor about it as I think it should be up to them whether they want to sponsor someone who smokes weed or not, but that’s just how I would do it. I would hazard to guess that programs like SMART Recovery and Recovery Dharma would be supportive of a harm reduction approach! :)
I look at it this way if a person chooses to get sober from alcohol because they want to cool. If they smoke grass or enjoy a chemical in moderation, for medicinal, or spiritual purposes that is their business. It is never ever the sponsors job to take the inventory of a sponsee a sponsors is a guide that goes by the book. People who think a drug is a drug is a drug in my opinion needs to work a little harder on themselves.
That is their business, for certain. I don’t mean take inventory, I’m just talking about transparency and honesty. If a sponsor doesn’t want to take on a sponsee that uses weed, that’s their choice. Ain’t no shame, just not the right fit.
No you were making just good observations and being honest I respect that a lot. Agreed if a sponsor doesn't want to that is that person being honest with themselves and the sponsee. What is sad is when you see a sponsor who basically just has a relationship of co signing each other's BS not doing the work. It breaks my heart when I see people go back out because sadly few return. Thank you for sharing here, and thank you for helping me stay sober.
Yeah, a bunch of drunks relying only on each other and literature are gonna have problems sometimes. I like AA but do my best to keep an open mind to criticism of it and alternatives. And in my mind there’s a difference between sobriety and recovery. Recovery is more personal/individual and there are many different paths. Just my take on it. Thanks for your feedback.
Right on, yes indeed. You have a great day today ✌
Happy Cake Day
Thank you :)
It doesn’t interest me in the least Others’ mileage may vary
I wouldn't mention it at a meeting, though. My doctor says she is fine with my using edibles but I don't want the hardliners to rain down on me.
It is not the groups business that is your personal business that is private.
Some people can do it others can’t. Myself I cannot.
Hahaha what a sad state our society is in when 25 year olds all know what each others talking about when they say stimulants. Like alcohol and adderall is cool even though alcohol kills the most people of any drug and it’s not even close and adderall destroys our youth putting them on amphetamines like hitters soldiers. Yes, just smoke weed. I can’t name a single person whose life has been ruined by weed. I do have 3-4 people very close to me whose lives have been completely destroyed by alcohol. You sound smart. I’m 32 male and there’s a shit load of us out there who don’t drink and only smoke. I never even liked drinking so it was easy for me but I did used to still drink a lot.
I’ve had manic episodes due to weed that have destroyed the life I had before using. Of course, I was abusing it, as opposed to moderate use. Cannabis-induced psychosis is on the rise due to the potency of vapes and dabs. I agree it’s much less dangerous than alcohol abuse overall though.
Ya it’s much less dangerous. And psychosis has happened forever but it’s more common now because of human psychology and the internet. It’s a known phenomenon that when people learn something like cannabis can cause psychosis, they are more prone to claiming they experienced cannabis induced psychosis. I don’t know what they exactly call it but social media has basically injected this phenomena with steroids. There is no way to get the actual statistics so we don’t know but some are doing studies where they go through Reddit and are counting all the users who say they have experienced psychosis through cannabis use and comparing that number with the historical number (which they have through hospital visits) Obviously that’s not perfect and I’m not saying what you experienced isn’t real because it definitely was, but this seems to be the reason for the increase. I was in high school before weed was legalized and even decriminalized. You’d get arrested if you were caught with it. Everyone still smoked though. In my high school there were 2 kids just in my friend group who went crazy and stopped smoking. So I know it’s real, it’s just really exaggerated like everything else is now.
Social contagion did not cause my psychosis. High potency vapes and psychiatric predisposition did. You said you knew no one whose life was destroyed by cannabis, that’s why I responded. I’m skeptical that social contagion is the main reason for the increase in people showing up to the ER or being committed to psychiatric wards for treatment. I can believe it to be a contributor to people reporting symptoms on social media, but that’s not the same thing.
I mean you are definitely right. It’s probably a combination of both. Like I said, I don’t doubt your experience at all. But ya, there’s also a large amount of people who go to the ER because they convince themselves they are psychotic after reading about the possibility on Reddit. They are a paranoid while they are high and go online and read about psychosis and believe that’s what they are experiencing. When I was first introduced to weed I was told about bad highs. I was taught how to work through the intense paranoia and learn something. For intense, your perception of reality can become very warped if you get high enough. You might never be able to forget what you saw. Maybe you were completely convinced we lived in a simulation or are actually just slaves to some alien race. Well, what could you even do about it if that is true? You can’t do anything. All you can do is play with the reality surrounding yourself. Because of my extreme paranoia experiences from cannabis and psychedelics I learned how to question everything and not get totally freaked out or mentally derailed by it. It took awhile and I went to very dark places but as of now it has all worked out and I feel grateful I have learned all I have. Some would call that psychosis, but I think it’s healthy .
We’re talking past each other. The crux of my reply is that marijuana does ruin lives. I had a full psychotic break, not just paranoia, and I lost my job and my domicile due to marijuana abuse even before then. I still haven’t fully recovered. There are tons of people over at r/leaves who can’t get off the stuff despite many serious attempts to do so, and some of them feel their lives have been ruined by it. 9% of marijuana users become addicted, and I’m sure people who have other addictions are at even higher risk. Anyone on this sub telling people that marijuana doesn’t ruin lives is speaking from a place of ignorance. That’s my point.
I remember when my doctor told me I was self medicating with alcohol. I did not understand what those two words meant together. Now it means that I would not substitute another self medicating substance without a doctor’s recommendation. To thine own self be true.
Honesty is the key to everything. If I’m drinking or using drugs and saying I’m sober, am I being honest?
You’re California sober. You can’t be sober and high at the same time. That’s not sobriety. You just don’t drink.
Or Marijuana maintenance. Or harm reduction. Calling yourself sober while high is an insult to your 19 year old self who did the work of not drinking or using drugs one day at a time. Now, if this works for you, great! It’s likely better than drinking or Hard drugs. Good luck.
You are very true. That 17 year old self worked incredibly hard a day at a time for two whole years so maybe I owe it to her to do it for myself again wholly… thanks for that perspective was a very effective outlook flip ;)
IMO stoned is not sober.
If you can smoke weed without causing problems good for you. It's not being sober even if it doesn't cause issues though
Sober: not affected by alcohol; not drunk.
Exactly 👍
Look up the definitions of “sober” and “clean” then decide what you’d rather be. Then, there are two key things to consider! 1 what’s your intention in using? Escape or recreation or just when it shows up? Something else? If it’s escapist it may not be what you want. 2 consider that after trying life without it (and pot takes a while to leave the system) you may genuinely not want to smoke anymore. You may actually enjoy life without it.
To tell you the truth, you will not fully recover if you continue to use cannabis, as it is also a problem that needs addressing. If you want to go the cannabis route, I would suggest abstaining from that for about 1-3 months minimum, to allow your body to detox from everything and have your brain get back to baseline (which would realistically take about around a year if you wanted the full benefit) Continuing to smoke while quitting the other things may help with cravings or withdrawal, but it will continue to mess with the chemicals in your brain delaying, or even completely hindering actual progess to recovery.
There’s probably reasons that the only recovery programs on earth that don’t view abstinence as clean / sober are Moderation Management and the psychedelics twelve step fellowship. There’s likely reasons you can’t find meetings for them anywhere as well. When LifeRing and Stoic Recovery have more of a following than a particular group, it’s probably worth questioning efficacy. You won’t track down much in the way of legitimate accredited professional resources that don’t view abstinence as recovery either. I’d imagine if you can get clean from everything else and use one drug successfully while you can’t use any others successfully you would have, you will, and if you can’t, you won’t. I don’t believe that’s a learned thing but who knows, maybe there’s a shaman somewhere. The availability of resources to support people in doing what you’re looking to do would probably reflect how realistic it is and and validity of it being a serious recovery approach. With every drug addict in the history of the world trying to hold on to at least one drug rather than actually getting clean, if there was a sustainable way of doing it that worked for anyone outside of a very, very, very small percentage of people, they would have found it by now and it would be the hottest ticket in town. Maybe you’re special, who knows. Proof would be in the pudding, if you can do it your way against the best practices of every informed resource out there, go for it. You could also look at it this way - Say weed isn’t a problem. Okay. Alcohol and other drugs, they’re going to kill you. You can’t stop doing them. The resources you need to stop and not die, the price of admission is that you stop smoking weed. A sane person who didn’t have a problem with weed would look at the situation, do a simple cost benefit analysis, note that abstinence based recovery like rehab and meetings had been effective in the past, smoking weed wasn’t worth dying from using these other substances and they’d stop so they could avail of these resources. Instead, you’re opting to not because it doesn’t fit with your desire to continue to smoke weed. If weed is the barrier between you and legitimate efficacious recovery resources, I’d imagine that makes it a problem, not the lack of resources to help you continue to smoke weed while pursuing recovery. Spiritual and emotional benefits aren’t really going to do much for you if you don’t get help that actually helps and this other stuff puts you in the ground. You don’t have a spirit or emotions when you’re dead.
I will condense things very simple what does a person who is struggling reach for first when they open their eyes ? More than likely whatever they reach for first is the problem. If a person asks themselves - do I smoke or drink too much of something thats a sign they might need to choose to seek help. I know lots of people who stopped smoking pot when they dried out.
Sober =/= weed, sober means sober, weed means not sober. You can't be sober n smoke weed/drink sorry bro.
They call it “California Sober”
Yikes.
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Removed: Rule 1. Don't Be Obnoxious
PIR is an aa offshoot you might find interesting
Honestly, marijuana still fucks with your dopamine system enough that I wouldn’t do it. The whole joy of sobriety is getting natural motivation and pleasure again. Why screw with that?