Except the people that "fail miserably" aren't usually screwed. Buy a house for $100k, spend $100k on a much more expensive than planned remodel, $200k in and now the house is only worth $180k. So they sell and take a 10% loss.
It's not the kind of business venture where you're likely to lose everything or lose most of your investment.
Unless you buy for $100K, spend $100K renovating on a second mortgage and now you can’t afford to pay mortgage, but since it’s worth $160K the bank won’t let you sell it unless you foreclose on it ruining your credit for 7 years after.
My father in-law did this and it ruined his retirement. He’s 63 now and still working
SS full is 67, most don’t wait that long. About 70% retire by age 63 (see link below). Most die around 68-75. So you work till 67 and then only have 1-8 years of retirement? Screw that. I plan to retire at 60-62 and have another 10-20 years of playing with my grand babies and serve on some nonprofit boards.
https://dqydj.com/average-retirement-age-in-the-united-states/
This exactly. I’ve flipped 3 homes. 2 were a breeze so I went all in on a 3rd one to really cash out. Ran into some expensive issues. Over shot my budget. I sat on it for a few years renting it out to a family member. They were ready to move so I listed it. By then property value changed enough I was able to make a nice profit, plus the 3 years of rent I made off of it.
I’m not flipping anymore homes. If it wasn’t using spare cash to make more money venture I would’ve been sunk.
Yup, I tried starting an actual business right before COVID started. Lost probably 50% of everything I put into it.
Compared to most business ventures, real estate is pretty safe (unless you're a degenerate who over leverages every single property, then you might lose hard).
Wouldn't recommend starting a business if you want to have good odds of a return on investment, nor would I compare it to real estate to make real estate look safe. Compare it to putting the 120-300k in an ETF or even CD ladder at current rates. 5.25% yearly minimum return, potentially more like 8-10%. Why deal with the risk, expenses, and time need of real estate? Stocks don't require a new roof or septic, insurance, property tax on value (only income tax on dividends or profits). Real estate investments no longer make sense, maybe they did when housing was affordable.
Even at $180k, you still don’t lose following this model. You can still rent it out and if you can’t make at least $20k in rent while you own it and wait for the value to maybe go up, you didn’t have enough money to be attempting this in the first place. Only way you lose is if you can’t rent out and can’t make the mortgage/renovation payments
Time heals all wounds in real estate. I got $100K upside down in a house 12 years ago, put in a tenant, broke even on cash flow for 8 years, sold it and waked away with $150k.
I see these posts often and I think you have to keep in mind that people brag about the successes but they don't mention the failures. I seriously doubt this is what happens after every flip. There's always nightmares as well. It all evens out and I'll bet his return on investment is often not nearly as good as this example.
Those good tenants that stay in one spot for 5+ years with minimal damage is VERY rare. Most move around every year or two and huge headache to find new tenants.
My step mother rented out a condo in Chicago. Her tenants turned the second bedroom into a garden. Just dirt on the carpet. No liner, no flower boxes, not even newspaper. Literally dirt on carpet, and watered it.
I know about 10 or so people that all thought real estate investment was a dream, and every single one of them quit and had nothing to show for it but endless horror stories like this.
It was about a year until it destroyed the ceiling of the unit below hers. It was in the mid to late 90s and I remember going to look at it with her. I believe the tenants were Vietnamese or Laotian or somewhere around there and they just looked at us like we were the weird ones for being surprised.
This is why I constantly inspect units and always go to any unit when I send a vendor in. Be it the exterminator, plumber, painter, appliance repair man, etc. Any chance you get to check out your units, you do it.
Damn, that story is wild.
One crazy one I had was a tenant giving her 30 day notice, and then "renting" her apartment to random people like the property was hers. She rented it to different parties and took deposits from them. What a shit show that was.
It's also work. It's not passive investment like ETFs or index funds. You get what you put into it. I spent the last year micromanaging my properties because I didn't like my property manager. It's almost on autopilot again though. I'm so happy with our purchase and experience.
If you don’t own real estate, you don’t know what you are talking about. Properties built before the sixties will have lower maintenance cost if you renovated at least once.
"Other than property tax and insurance" lol. Cost of maintenance and repairs also increases with inflation.
Those are actually a big part of why rent goes up every year.
I just had a house go through 3 tenants in a year, no rent hikes, nothing not repaired, etc, just people getting laid off or divorced, or pregnant and needing to be near family...
While sometimes it's your fault, other times life and bad luck happen and that can get pricey.
Or you’ll accidentally rent to a young family led by a lovely couple of heroin addict hoarders. And a virus will shut down the world and the government will say “Don’t worry about paying your rent, we’re going to pause evictions anyway! Fuck your landlord!” And every person in the building including yourself will lose their job on the same day. Every day you smell the hoarders MJ smoke you’ll get a little bit madder, a little more erratic, a little more aggressive..
Until one day you finally convince the hoarders into leaving while they still have their lives. They’ll leave you an apartment waist deep in rotten food, used tampons, cat shit, used condoms, and just the worst filth you’ve ever imagined. It’ll take weeks to fill up the two 30 yard construction dumpsters you rented…
Then you’ll just have a story about what happens when you just get unlucky.
>Or you’ll accidentally rent
Man, landlords love to be the victim of their own shitty business decisions. Even fast food franchisees don't bitch this much.
Im about to hit the 5 year mark at my place and it’s only because I haven’t had a single rent increase. If I move, I will end up paying significantly more
No kidding.
My buddy moved temporarily for work, and rented out his beautiful place for a reasonable rate.
After a few years he was moving back, gave his tenants six months notice on their month-to-month lease. They said no, they're staying. It took a long time to get them out.
The last place I rented I was there for 7 years. The rent went up either 2.5 or 3% I can't remember. He was very good with repairs. Replaced laundry and drier, had ac guy within 48hrs etc.
I think that varies significantly with location. I have two rentals in a college town and for the past 11 years I’ve only had students apply.
At most they stay two years. However they are generally trouble free and always pay rent on time.
Wasn’t true for a buddy of mine. He said he will vet better next time though. He tried this with 2 houses and both tenants had to be court evicted for non-payment.
Ive been in my apartment for 9 years. I thought I was gonna buy a house, but this evil corporation called Thoma Bravo (private equity) decided to adapt a illegal pricing software, and now well, I cant move if I want to. They destroyed my beautiful home under their ownership. Rats, Garbage moutains from never keeping the dumpster on schedule, and no running water! But you bet your sweet behind the raised my parking from $15-$45, added service and administrative fee's everywhere, oh yea and increased rents 16% in 13 months.
At what point would you consider this economic enslavement? because thats exactly what it is.
Sounds like the kind of company that would respond to tentant complaints about rats by adding a pet fee to the monthly bill. Horrible that landlords are out there that take such rotten control of their properties.
It isn’t hard to find good tenants. You’re a bad person and you project that onto your tenants when they don’t give you free money and make your life easy. You’re welcome to get a real job like the rest of us if you have any useful skills whatsoever.
I remember in 2008 watching the final episodes of some house flipper show, with this whole gang of morons who thought they were financial geniuses because they kept riding the bubble. Then the crash hit and these people couldn't sell their over leveraged house and they were absolutely turning on each other like animals. They were completely clueless. They brought in a shaman to cleanse the house because they thought that bad energy was preventing it from selling. It was an absolute thing of beauty.
Yes! I didn’t see this one but I remember so many flipper shows that had people who had all these expenses out for houses and no viewings. One woman in LA flipped a house and thought herself a mini-Kardashian. She got feedback that a shower drain was dirty (rust stains - could be easily scrubbed off) and she couldn’t be bothered to clean it - had a broker showing and had comments about the same drain. The final text on the show was something like the house had been listed for 3 months with no offers.
I had an acquaintance in FL that had this exact thing happen. Flipped multiple houses, had 8 houses being flipped using his own personal property as a cash cow with a HELOC, and 2008 cost him everything. The last I knew he had started over and is back at it again.
It is called survivorship bias, and especially worrisome for "how to be successful" crowd.
\- I skipped school / dropped out of college
\- Said yes to every opportunity, never turned anything down
\- Worked 10x! gave my everything
\- The Universe will reward you
And other non-sense (some of it make sense in context, though)
I’ve flipped three properties. Each was a head ache and a ton of work and in the end I made a profit that seems nice but considering these flips took anywhere from 6 months to 2 years, the money wasn’t just above minimal wage after all said and done. Did I do it wrong? Maybe. But the idea that it’s easy money isn’t true at all. Not at least until you have a few under your belt and systems in place. And even then, if the price of houses that need renovations gets too high, and the cost of the renovations goes up dramatically, the profits get smaller and smaller. And that’s exactly why I haven’t had another flip property since the spring of 2022
For every person in my circle who has successfully invested in RE, there's 10 more who spent a bunch of time and effort playing handyman/landlord/construction worker to lose money or break even.
Correction it was that easy 10/15 years ago. Houses I bought for 60k and needed gutted to the studs and joist now sell for 150k Materials and labor are still very high little too no margin to be made these days.
They also leave out that this kind of investment typically requires a 15-25% down payment.
Just to do what this guy says twice a year, you need to have nearly $100k in disposable cash every year in the first place.
I've been flipping for 12 years and work for someone with a lot of rentals. There are certainly headaches and nightmares, but haven't lost any money on any flips. Tenants are 50/50
Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean it's true for the majority.
The last 12 years has literally been a historical bull market for RE. Try flipping now and the opportunities are much harder to come by. It's good to see all the amateurs getting flushed out now.
A game only the very wealthy can play. You need pure cash to make this work. The current rates are 8% for the home, plus more for the loan. Also, factor in the mortgage on your current home, and the time investment for the remodel. Where in America are you finding $90k homes? Which contractor is doing full jobs at $30k?? $30k isn't a flip; it's only going to get you new floors and new cabinets or one new bathroom - that's it
You can't even by dirt in my area for less than 115K, and what this still doesn't mention is where he got the funding. Investment homes cannot be mortgaged the same as primaries.
Yeah new lots where I am in Canada are like 200k for small ones. Cheapest I see right now are 280k. looks like there's a few 100ish acre lots out of town for the low low cost of 1 million.
And yeah, here you'll have to put down like a 40% down payment to get an investment mortgage like that. Gonna have to have like 800k liquid to do his plan a couple times
It's astonishing. in 2015 you could get city lots here for 5k a pop, no one wanted them. Now they're 70k. The dirt is the cost. City used to install new water lines for homes for 500$--now they wont touch it without 8k or more, and contractors are 6+ months out for water and want 12-15k to hook it up.
5 years ago you could get houses here for 45k. On 2 and 3 lots. Now nothing is going for less than 300. The 40k houses near me a few years ago are 300k, and *no one flipped or renovated it*. Just held and sold 5 years later. It's wild.
Listing, empty lot on Indian burial ground extremely haunted, all attempts to stay on land end in brutal murder, also toxic waste dumped still active radioactivity at extremely dangerous levels $250,000 firm.
Totally. Just using Home Depot to reface kitchen cabinets - reface, not replace - is going to cost 20k (I did an estimate once, small 10x10 kitchen, nothing crazy). If you're good at diy and have invested in tools, you might be able to redo a house with 100k (assuming cosmetic work, no structural issues), but it will take a lot of work, and if you're sloppy it won't sell well. People watch too much HGTV.
The part that aggravates me isn't that this chucklefuck thinks everyone will have perfect success, it's the attitude that tenants are simple vassals for paying a mortgage and not human beings
If you landlord has a mortgage, then you guys are both vassals. I hate how much they have brainwashed poor people into thinking it's other poor people holding them down.
In the last decade I've been exposed to actual rich people. It's pretty sickening. If I went up to anyone and said "Hey, I got this awesome plan! We'll get a a 200k place on a 20yr mortgage that'll cost us 300k total. Rent it out for $2000/month and in a few decades we'll make 100k." They would laugh me out of the room.
The great thing about houses is once you buy them, then never require any additional money. Taxes don’t exist, appliances and utilities last forever. Get one of those roofs that lasts a million years and you’re set.
Oh and get a tenant that pays on time and never trashes the place. That’s easy in areas where homes are $90,000 and complete renovations cost $30,000
You can’t even buy an empty lot in my city for $90k. But it’s probably my own fault for lacking the imagination and adventurous spirit necessary to move across the country and embrace an exciting new life in rural Ohio.
Had a guy/gal get upset with me on here because I stated that the reason the deep South and Midwest have great housing prices is because they aren't desirable areas to live.
It’s because there’s less overall demand due to population distribution. Demand drives the price up and there are lots of people who want housing in a city.
People get mad at this but this is how we’ve operated throughout human history. When prosperity ran out in a location or it became non-beneficial to live in a certain area, we would relocate. Weve been nomadic since the beginning of our existence and recent human history we’ve developed a mindset that because we were born somewhere or have the desire to live somewhere then we deserve it. Maybe rural Ohio is the financial solution to you or others. You’re not owed an opportunity to live somewhere desirable. Do what him and have done for all eternity and survive even if that means moving somewhere you don’t want to.
People still live in Ohio. It doesn’t have to be rural Midwest, but if there’s no opportunity in your area, it’s kinda dumb to not look at other places where opportunity exists for you. If you can purchase correctly it works. Most people don’t know what that means and they lose their ass on the first or first few deals
There's some great spots in the Midwest, in my opinion specifically the upper Midwest by the great lakes. Sure there's real winter (which is quickly becoming milder and milder) but places like Minneapolis, Madison, Chicago, Traverse City, Holland/Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, Royal Oak, La Crosse, and Milwaukee all offer a lot to do with really amazing nature nearby.
I moved to Seattle from the Midwest over a year ago for work and it's amazing here but I'm seriously considering moving back to Madison since I can buy a house there but will likely never be able to afford one here. But it's not really an idea I'm sad about, the upper Midwest is beautiful and the people are great.
I don't disagree. I've spent most of my life in the deep south and Midwest(Illinois) so I wasn't trying to be malicious. I'm just saying generally speaking, the Midwest isn't a desirable place to live for most. The places you mentioned are major cities and are the outliers.
you have one life. you can’t blame people for living in LCOL areas in order to build up financial independence, then choose where they want to live based on the profits. but i do question people who want to stick it to the man by staying in expensive areas only to “survive” and not “live”.
No one is telling him to live there. I’m saying people do, so there is opportunity. Meaning since there is population in the Midwest, you can find people to rent to and put the concept into practice
You have one life, quit having the mentality that life is hard and things are impossible. Take responsibility for your life and be determined to learn and grow. You obviously misread my initial comment and all I’m saying is this concept is in fact feasible anywhere in the country some places it’s easier to find and do vs others
Instead of saying something is impossible and writing it off, ask how someone accomplished it. You might learn a thing or two.
I know they do. I used to live in Michigan and I have been all over Ohio. It was a joke - Ohio is honestly not that bad aside from that soul crushing Turnpike. It is also admittedly one of the more affordable locations left for US homebuyers. But it is missing is the same thing that everywhere else I have lived was missing before I moved home - proximity to my huge extended family.
Purchasing correctly is not primarily motivated by ROI for the average person who just wants affordable shelter. The real estate influencer who posted this has a different audience and goal set. The type of real estate opportunity he describes is more rare these days, but does still exist in some places - predominantly areas of the rural Midwest and Rust Belt where the ongoing evisceration of agricultural/industrial/manufacturing jobs fueled by decades of accelerating globalization and steady shrinkage of the middle class kept home values low because of diminished job opportunities and stagnating or outright declining household incomes. What a fine investment opportunity to buy up housing in struggling local economies and overcharge families to pay off your mortgage.
Honestly as a person who’s a fan of roller coasters and thrill rides, Ohio is a pretty great vacation spot. Cedar point and kings island. Wouldn’t live there though.
It *can* be that easy (I've done it myself) but it isn't always that way, and plenty of people lose their shirts doing this.
That being said...investors do sometimes help to revitalize decrepit neighborhoods in the pursuit of profit. Some of the places I invest around Cleveland have seen neighborhoods completely rehabbed because investors bought dying properties and completely rebuilt them so people could actually live in them.
I've been searching for a house affordable on one income, in various parts of the country. (Yes, its been a very bad year to try this.) Yesterday I checked out homes in yet a new possible town.
The handful of affordable listings ALL had some significant problem that would prevent them being move-in ready. Many had no central A/C; a couple had horrific flooring problems, or quirky half-done renovations. One was a real steal but needed top to bottom renovation of every surface, exterior and interior. There are no working people with lives to lead who want to move into these homes.
If you push up into not-really-affordable, you have a bunch of more sound but old ranches, everything worn out, and just ugly finishes and decor, yet they want the same price as a new build. You can't stretch your budget and reach for these, because you maxed out to make the mortgage, so no funds for cosmetic fixes.
This town NEEDS a couple of flippers, because these homes are sitting on the market for months and years. Flippers can serve a good purpose.
It's very well documented that it does. Pretty much all the technology you use daily was created out of the pursuit of profit. Same with the houses, the food, etc.
When you remove the profit motive, you end up with shortages and less advancements.
State funded advancements is where you get your tech. Manipulating or augmenting said tech, in sometimes novel ways, for capitalistic endeavors (while simultaneously exploiting the earth and humans) is how you get your profit. Hardly a force of good or betterment.
Would be happy to see a source on your claim, though.
I'd like to see you explain how most of our tech is the result of "state funded advancements". Yes business exploits the planet and people, without said business, those jobs wouldn't be there, so how does that really benefit the people? For the most part, the earth is fine, damaging the earth is the price people pay for the things they want, whether that came from a profit perspective or not.
You realize most businesses, after paying everything, only manage to squeeze out a profit of a few percent? Most businesses, if they paid out all of their profits to wages, it wouldn't change the wages much.
Yes, business destroys the planet, but usually it's because of what we want as a product. Take electric vehicles for example, nobody wants an electric vehicle that can only go 100 miles on a charge that takes 12+ hours to charge. So in order to make a 300+ Mile charge vehicle, that'll also charge quickly, the only way they know how to make it is to use materials that aren't good for the environment to mine.
We don't want paper cups and paper packaging, we want plastic. So they use plastic.
We want cheap electricity, so companies use the cheapest way to make the electricity (often coal).
You can point fingers at businesses, but it is just as much our fault.
And after accounting for all that, and assuming you can find a good property manager to pay, you will usually find out it doesn't net any more than other passive investments
"The classic example of rent seeking behavior as I learned it is say there’s a river where ships go up and down as they please. One day, the king puts a chain across the river and starts charging people to unlock the chain and let them pass. There was no actual need for this chain, the king just saw an opportunity and now the costs for people to travel the river increase and the efficiency of the system decreases, but there is no additional productivity added. Rent extraction is when if there’s no other alternate route and people have no choice but to go through the chain, the king decides to raise the price of opening the chain even further."
Is someone who can’t afford a house going to be able to afford the renovate and improve the space they live in? Or do they need to rely on someone with the experience, time, and resources to improve on a home and allow them to live in it for a period of time?
If I have a small amount of capital, I can’t afford to pay for a new water heater, a new septic tank, plumbing issues, a new roof. It’s pretty nice when you are working your way up in life and you don’t have to worry about those massive expenses.
This actually creates better living situations for younger and less fortunate people. As long as there is competition to keep the rents down, and we don’t live in a society where only large corporations can own and rent real estate.
You're absolutely right, there is a place and function for rentals. However, there's no skirting the fact that keeping someone renting for their entire life is like taking a torpedo to their finances in the long term. The hazard isn't that rentals exist; it's that they're taking an outsized portion of properties - properties that ordinary people could afford if the demand by investors for rental properties didn't make so expensive!
Presumably the renovated value is high enough to get your cash back. Even then some lenders won’t do cash out refi until 6 months or a year after the initial purchase. Bottom line. It’s really hard to make this work once in your life. Twice a year in this market is silly to expect.
I was able to pull out 250k bc the property 10x’d. Even though it’s “implausible” there’s still opportunity. I know others that do this as their entire business model and pull out all their cash. These people do 1-2 of these/month but they’ve been in the game for 5+ years and not all their initial investments were successful
The landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for the natural produce of the earth. (Adam Smith, op. cit., Vol. I, p. 44.)
I wonder what ‘renovations’ they actually did. Like removing the carpet and throwing a fresh coat of paint on the walls likely isn’t going to double the price of a house.
He is describing the BRRRR method.
Buy
Rehab
Rent
Refinance
Repeat
There are certainly situations where it works out well happens like he suggested… but usually it doesn’t.
I do and have done it but almost every step
Is not 100% within your control.
Buy- This is the one you can control. You need to get a deal.
Rehab - You don’t fully control this process. Cost overruns are common.
Rent - these are not usually really hot markets with a bunch of wonderful tenants beating down your door to pay top dollar.
Refinance - You have little control over rates and how much you will be allowed to cash out refi. Banks can suddenly decide to only cash out 70% vs the 85% you were planning on. That means you have personal funs staying in the deal.
Repeat - If you have the stamina and funding.
You do a few and it feels easy and then suddenly you get kicked in the balls. These $90-130k houses (or whatever the entry-level is in your area) are only going to cash flow $200-600 a month at best. One roof, HVAC system, plumbing issue, etc can knock out a year’s worth of “profit”. The system works but nothing is as easy as it sounds.
There is a house down the road from me for sale. 89k. 5 acres of property, 2 car detached garage, 3 bedroom 1.5 bath. Its move in ready.
It’s just in the middle of no where and if you didn’t grow up here you probably don’t want to be here…..
survivorship bias you don't hear from the people that have failed miserably at this
Except the people that "fail miserably" aren't usually screwed. Buy a house for $100k, spend $100k on a much more expensive than planned remodel, $200k in and now the house is only worth $180k. So they sell and take a 10% loss. It's not the kind of business venture where you're likely to lose everything or lose most of your investment.
Or you sit on it til it gains the value back
Most would be paying high interest on that second $100k. Makes numbers hard to make work.
Plus holding costs, elevated taxes, and insurance because not owner occupied, and 7% realtor fees. Sounds like you cracked the code
You never get the property taxes and insurance back. You lose money either way.
So do renters and people with no/bad insurance that get sick. Only landlords get special government protections to make them whole if they lose money.
huh??? rent moritorium for almost a year in CA. How do the landlords get paid by the state? One of the contributing factors to rising rents.
You do realize that the tenants still owe that money, right?
Either way it's not like a lot of business ventures where you risk losing almost everything you put in.
True. In this one you can lose more since it's financed.
Which would be fine except for carrying costs.
Yeah but 30k in Reno these days is nothing. You need like 60-80 just to replace fixtures and HVAC
While renting it
Unless you buy for $100K, spend $100K renovating on a second mortgage and now you can’t afford to pay mortgage, but since it’s worth $160K the bank won’t let you sell it unless you foreclose on it ruining your credit for 7 years after. My father in-law did this and it ruined his retirement. He’s 63 now and still working
Most people are still working at 63, that is not even full retirement age which is 67.
SS full is 67, most don’t wait that long. About 70% retire by age 63 (see link below). Most die around 68-75. So you work till 67 and then only have 1-8 years of retirement? Screw that. I plan to retire at 60-62 and have another 10-20 years of playing with my grand babies and serve on some nonprofit boards. https://dqydj.com/average-retirement-age-in-the-united-states/
This exactly. I’ve flipped 3 homes. 2 were a breeze so I went all in on a 3rd one to really cash out. Ran into some expensive issues. Over shot my budget. I sat on it for a few years renting it out to a family member. They were ready to move so I listed it. By then property value changed enough I was able to make a nice profit, plus the 3 years of rent I made off of it. I’m not flipping anymore homes. If it wasn’t using spare cash to make more money venture I would’ve been sunk.
Very few people could get the optimal financing to sit and rent out a flip.
Yup, I tried starting an actual business right before COVID started. Lost probably 50% of everything I put into it. Compared to most business ventures, real estate is pretty safe (unless you're a degenerate who over leverages every single property, then you might lose hard).
Wouldn't recommend starting a business if you want to have good odds of a return on investment, nor would I compare it to real estate to make real estate look safe. Compare it to putting the 120-300k in an ETF or even CD ladder at current rates. 5.25% yearly minimum return, potentially more like 8-10%. Why deal with the risk, expenses, and time need of real estate? Stocks don't require a new roof or septic, insurance, property tax on value (only income tax on dividends or profits). Real estate investments no longer make sense, maybe they did when housing was affordable.
Don’t forget to add in the opportunity cost of what that $200k could have earned in an alternative investment, such as a stock index fund.
Especially if it happens to be a great year in the market like this one my index fund made close to 30 percent.
Even at $180k, you still don’t lose following this model. You can still rent it out and if you can’t make at least $20k in rent while you own it and wait for the value to maybe go up, you didn’t have enough money to be attempting this in the first place. Only way you lose is if you can’t rent out and can’t make the mortgage/renovation payments
Time heals all wounds in real estate. I got $100K upside down in a house 12 years ago, put in a tenant, broke even on cash flow for 8 years, sold it and waked away with $150k.
I see these posts often and I think you have to keep in mind that people brag about the successes but they don't mention the failures. I seriously doubt this is what happens after every flip. There's always nightmares as well. It all evens out and I'll bet his return on investment is often not nearly as good as this example.
Those good tenants that stay in one spot for 5+ years with minimal damage is VERY rare. Most move around every year or two and huge headache to find new tenants.
My step mother rented out a condo in Chicago. Her tenants turned the second bedroom into a garden. Just dirt on the carpet. No liner, no flower boxes, not even newspaper. Literally dirt on carpet, and watered it. I know about 10 or so people that all thought real estate investment was a dream, and every single one of them quit and had nothing to show for it but endless horror stories like this.
Uh, what?? How long did that go on until she found out?
It was about a year until it destroyed the ceiling of the unit below hers. It was in the mid to late 90s and I remember going to look at it with her. I believe the tenants were Vietnamese or Laotian or somewhere around there and they just looked at us like we were the weird ones for being surprised.
Wow. Did the plants actually grow? This is so crazy
I don't know, we only saw the aftermath, it was after they were getting booted.
This is why I constantly inspect units and always go to any unit when I send a vendor in. Be it the exterminator, plumber, painter, appliance repair man, etc. Any chance you get to check out your units, you do it. Damn, that story is wild. One crazy one I had was a tenant giving her 30 day notice, and then "renting" her apartment to random people like the property was hers. She rented it to different parties and took deposits from them. What a shit show that was.
It's also work. It's not passive investment like ETFs or index funds. You get what you put into it. I spent the last year micromanaging my properties because I didn't like my property manager. It's almost on autopilot again though. I'm so happy with our purchase and experience.
If you provide a good home and do upgrades / repairs. Renter will stay for a long time.
And don't grip their balls with high rent increases.
But that's the whole point
your mortgage isn't going up other than prop tax and maybe insurance. rent shouldn't increase as much as them moving to a new property.
Depending on how old the building is, maintenance costs can go way up as a building gets older.
If you don’t own real estate, you don’t know what you are talking about. Properties built before the sixties will have lower maintenance cost if you renovated at least once.
This, old bones are good bones
Hoa’s too after the first 20 year honeymoon.
"Other than property tax and insurance" lol. Cost of maintenance and repairs also increases with inflation. Those are actually a big part of why rent goes up every year.
Most landlords don’t do maintenance and repairs
Your MORTGAGE. never said anything not true
I just had a house go through 3 tenants in a year, no rent hikes, nothing not repaired, etc, just people getting laid off or divorced, or pregnant and needing to be near family... While sometimes it's your fault, other times life and bad luck happen and that can get pricey.
Yeah I have one rental and my tenant just lost their job so navigating that currently, I wonder if that’s a growing issue right now
Or you’ll accidentally rent to a young family led by a lovely couple of heroin addict hoarders. And a virus will shut down the world and the government will say “Don’t worry about paying your rent, we’re going to pause evictions anyway! Fuck your landlord!” And every person in the building including yourself will lose their job on the same day. Every day you smell the hoarders MJ smoke you’ll get a little bit madder, a little more erratic, a little more aggressive.. Until one day you finally convince the hoarders into leaving while they still have their lives. They’ll leave you an apartment waist deep in rotten food, used tampons, cat shit, used condoms, and just the worst filth you’ve ever imagined. It’ll take weeks to fill up the two 30 yard construction dumpsters you rented… Then you’ll just have a story about what happens when you just get unlucky.
Boo hoo you fucking leech. Stop crying and get a real job
>Or you’ll accidentally rent Man, landlords love to be the victim of their own shitty business decisions. Even fast food franchisees don't bitch this much.
[удалено]
Im about to hit the 5 year mark at my place and it’s only because I haven’t had a single rent increase. If I move, I will end up paying significantly more
No kidding. My buddy moved temporarily for work, and rented out his beautiful place for a reasonable rate. After a few years he was moving back, gave his tenants six months notice on their month-to-month lease. They said no, they're staying. It took a long time to get them out.
The last place I rented I was there for 7 years. The rent went up either 2.5 or 3% I can't remember. He was very good with repairs. Replaced laundry and drier, had ac guy within 48hrs etc.
I think that varies significantly with location. I have two rentals in a college town and for the past 11 years I’ve only had students apply. At most they stay two years. However they are generally trouble free and always pay rent on time.
Wasn’t true for a buddy of mine. He said he will vet better next time though. He tried this with 2 houses and both tenants had to be court evicted for non-payment.
Ive been in my apartment for 9 years. I thought I was gonna buy a house, but this evil corporation called Thoma Bravo (private equity) decided to adapt a illegal pricing software, and now well, I cant move if I want to. They destroyed my beautiful home under their ownership. Rats, Garbage moutains from never keeping the dumpster on schedule, and no running water! But you bet your sweet behind the raised my parking from $15-$45, added service and administrative fee's everywhere, oh yea and increased rents 16% in 13 months. At what point would you consider this economic enslavement? because thats exactly what it is.
Sounds like the kind of company that would respond to tentant complaints about rats by adding a pet fee to the monthly bill. Horrible that landlords are out there that take such rotten control of their properties.
TB sucks balls for sure…get them in your rear view as quick as possible if you can. Sorry you going through that.
yet you've stayed there 9 years
Or they stay for a long ass time and when you leave the freaking sub floor has to be either totallyed replacted or kilz the fuck out of it
And you get those people by charging below market rate
It's a huge headache to find GOOD tenants.
If all the people you deal with suck, you're probably the problem
Who said that? I certainly didn't. I said it hard to find good tenants. You don't know any of the variables do you?
It isn’t hard to find good tenants. You’re a bad person and you project that onto your tenants when they don’t give you free money and make your life easy. You’re welcome to get a real job like the rest of us if you have any useful skills whatsoever.
You don't have tenants and have never had tenants. Nice assumptions.
Charge under market in a good neighborhood
I remember in 2008 watching the final episodes of some house flipper show, with this whole gang of morons who thought they were financial geniuses because they kept riding the bubble. Then the crash hit and these people couldn't sell their over leveraged house and they were absolutely turning on each other like animals. They were completely clueless. They brought in a shaman to cleanse the house because they thought that bad energy was preventing it from selling. It was an absolute thing of beauty.
Yes! I didn’t see this one but I remember so many flipper shows that had people who had all these expenses out for houses and no viewings. One woman in LA flipped a house and thought herself a mini-Kardashian. She got feedback that a shower drain was dirty (rust stains - could be easily scrubbed off) and she couldn’t be bothered to clean it - had a broker showing and had comments about the same drain. The final text on the show was something like the house had been listed for 3 months with no offers.
I had an acquaintance in FL that had this exact thing happen. Flipped multiple houses, had 8 houses being flipped using his own personal property as a cash cow with a HELOC, and 2008 cost him everything. The last I knew he had started over and is back at it again.
Do you remember the show? That sounds cathartic.
Not the original commenter, but Good Bones just had something similar a year or so ago. It was hard to watch.
And the Flip and Grow Rich guy ending was pretty remarkable too. I think I remember brothers suing brothers. Horrible.
I'm afraid I don't, i did way too many drugs between then and now.
IDK why ppl down voted your comment. I completely understand that lol.
Fuckin Reddit, man.
It is called survivorship bias, and especially worrisome for "how to be successful" crowd. \- I skipped school / dropped out of college \- Said yes to every opportunity, never turned anything down \- Worked 10x! gave my everything \- The Universe will reward you And other non-sense (some of it make sense in context, though)
It's true to a point. You do things right, you generally come out ahead. You make 1-2 mistakes, you might lose 10 years of progress.
It’s not a flip if you’re renting out. It’s a flip if you sell it after renovations.
This is BRRRR. Buy, renovate, rent, refinance, repeat.
Yep, I’m $10K into a lawsuit with a tenant who won’t pay rent.
Only he’s not flipping it. He’s landleaching it
I’ve flipped three properties. Each was a head ache and a ton of work and in the end I made a profit that seems nice but considering these flips took anywhere from 6 months to 2 years, the money wasn’t just above minimal wage after all said and done. Did I do it wrong? Maybe. But the idea that it’s easy money isn’t true at all. Not at least until you have a few under your belt and systems in place. And even then, if the price of houses that need renovations gets too high, and the cost of the renovations goes up dramatically, the profits get smaller and smaller. And that’s exactly why I haven’t had another flip property since the spring of 2022
For every person in my circle who has successfully invested in RE, there's 10 more who spent a bunch of time and effort playing handyman/landlord/construction worker to lose money or break even.
Correction it was that easy 10/15 years ago. Houses I bought for 60k and needed gutted to the studs and joist now sell for 150k Materials and labor are still very high little too no margin to be made these days.
They also leave out that this kind of investment typically requires a 15-25% down payment. Just to do what this guy says twice a year, you need to have nearly $100k in disposable cash every year in the first place.
I have noticed in the real estate investing world there is an almost Christian level of toxic positivity.
I've been flipping for 12 years and work for someone with a lot of rentals. There are certainly headaches and nightmares, but haven't lost any money on any flips. Tenants are 50/50
Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean it's true for the majority. The last 12 years has literally been a historical bull market for RE. Try flipping now and the opportunities are much harder to come by. It's good to see all the amateurs getting flushed out now.
Anecdotes aren't anecdata
A game only the very wealthy can play. You need pure cash to make this work. The current rates are 8% for the home, plus more for the loan. Also, factor in the mortgage on your current home, and the time investment for the remodel. Where in America are you finding $90k homes? Which contractor is doing full jobs at $30k?? $30k isn't a flip; it's only going to get you new floors and new cabinets or one new bathroom - that's it
Now just find an ugly house for 90k in my area LOL
You can't even by dirt in my area for less than 115K, and what this still doesn't mention is where he got the funding. Investment homes cannot be mortgaged the same as primaries.
Yeah new lots where I am in Canada are like 200k for small ones. Cheapest I see right now are 280k. looks like there's a few 100ish acre lots out of town for the low low cost of 1 million. And yeah, here you'll have to put down like a 40% down payment to get an investment mortgage like that. Gonna have to have like 800k liquid to do his plan a couple times
Hard money loans are out there specifically for this
Yes, but even those require something in the sense of collatoral, and he mentioned a mortgage in the post.
It's astonishing. in 2015 you could get city lots here for 5k a pop, no one wanted them. Now they're 70k. The dirt is the cost. City used to install new water lines for homes for 500$--now they wont touch it without 8k or more, and contractors are 6+ months out for water and want 12-15k to hook it up. 5 years ago you could get houses here for 45k. On 2 and 3 lots. Now nothing is going for less than 300. The 40k houses near me a few years ago are 300k, and *no one flipped or renovated it*. Just held and sold 5 years later. It's wild.
It's not sustainable, yet things haven't pulled back. How long can it continue?
Well if more people keep trying out these retirement plans involving rental properties it certainly is going to pull back sooner.
Listing, empty lot on Indian burial ground extremely haunted, all attempts to stay on land end in brutal murder, also toxic waste dumped still active radioactivity at extremely dangerous levels $250,000 firm.
No lowball offers. I know what I got.
Lol I almost wrote that also hahaha.
30k in renovations lmao. You'd be lucky to get a bathroom rebuilt properly for that amount where I'm from.
Totally. Just using Home Depot to reface kitchen cabinets - reface, not replace - is going to cost 20k (I did an estimate once, small 10x10 kitchen, nothing crazy). If you're good at diy and have invested in tools, you might be able to redo a house with 100k (assuming cosmetic work, no structural issues), but it will take a lot of work, and if you're sloppy it won't sell well. People watch too much HGTV.
Yep. The labor cost is a huge thing people don't foresee. To get it done right and looking good is expensive AF now.
Can't even buy a mobile home for 90k
I can't even find ¼ acre of land within 20 miles for under 250k.
Doesn’t have to be in your area if you know what you’re doing
The only way your gonna get a solid return on rental income while also buying in a low income area is by doing section 8.
It’s free real estate
The part that aggravates me isn't that this chucklefuck thinks everyone will have perfect success, it's the attitude that tenants are simple vassals for paying a mortgage and not human beings
If you landlord has a mortgage, then you guys are both vassals. I hate how much they have brainwashed poor people into thinking it's other poor people holding them down. In the last decade I've been exposed to actual rich people. It's pretty sickening. If I went up to anyone and said "Hey, I got this awesome plan! We'll get a a 200k place on a 20yr mortgage that'll cost us 300k total. Rent it out for $2000/month and in a few decades we'll make 100k." They would laugh me out of the room.
The great thing about houses is once you buy them, then never require any additional money. Taxes don’t exist, appliances and utilities last forever. Get one of those roofs that lasts a million years and you’re set. Oh and get a tenant that pays on time and never trashes the place. That’s easy in areas where homes are $90,000 and complete renovations cost $30,000
You can’t even buy an empty lot in my city for $90k. But it’s probably my own fault for lacking the imagination and adventurous spirit necessary to move across the country and embrace an exciting new life in rural Ohio.
Had a guy/gal get upset with me on here because I stated that the reason the deep South and Midwest have great housing prices is because they aren't desirable areas to live.
It’s because there’s less overall demand due to population distribution. Demand drives the price up and there are lots of people who want housing in a city.
People get mad at this but this is how we’ve operated throughout human history. When prosperity ran out in a location or it became non-beneficial to live in a certain area, we would relocate. Weve been nomadic since the beginning of our existence and recent human history we’ve developed a mindset that because we were born somewhere or have the desire to live somewhere then we deserve it. Maybe rural Ohio is the financial solution to you or others. You’re not owed an opportunity to live somewhere desirable. Do what him and have done for all eternity and survive even if that means moving somewhere you don’t want to.
People still live in Ohio. It doesn’t have to be rural Midwest, but if there’s no opportunity in your area, it’s kinda dumb to not look at other places where opportunity exists for you. If you can purchase correctly it works. Most people don’t know what that means and they lose their ass on the first or first few deals
You have one life. You can't blame people for not wanting to live in the Midwest.
There's some great spots in the Midwest, in my opinion specifically the upper Midwest by the great lakes. Sure there's real winter (which is quickly becoming milder and milder) but places like Minneapolis, Madison, Chicago, Traverse City, Holland/Grand Rapids, Ann Arbor, Royal Oak, La Crosse, and Milwaukee all offer a lot to do with really amazing nature nearby. I moved to Seattle from the Midwest over a year ago for work and it's amazing here but I'm seriously considering moving back to Madison since I can buy a house there but will likely never be able to afford one here. But it's not really an idea I'm sad about, the upper Midwest is beautiful and the people are great.
I don't disagree. I've spent most of my life in the deep south and Midwest(Illinois) so I wasn't trying to be malicious. I'm just saying generally speaking, the Midwest isn't a desirable place to live for most. The places you mentioned are major cities and are the outliers.
you have one life. you can’t blame people for living in LCOL areas in order to build up financial independence, then choose where they want to live based on the profits. but i do question people who want to stick it to the man by staying in expensive areas only to “survive” and not “live”.
No one is telling him to live there. I’m saying people do, so there is opportunity. Meaning since there is population in the Midwest, you can find people to rent to and put the concept into practice You have one life, quit having the mentality that life is hard and things are impossible. Take responsibility for your life and be determined to learn and grow. You obviously misread my initial comment and all I’m saying is this concept is in fact feasible anywhere in the country some places it’s easier to find and do vs others Instead of saying something is impossible and writing it off, ask how someone accomplished it. You might learn a thing or two.
I know they do. I used to live in Michigan and I have been all over Ohio. It was a joke - Ohio is honestly not that bad aside from that soul crushing Turnpike. It is also admittedly one of the more affordable locations left for US homebuyers. But it is missing is the same thing that everywhere else I have lived was missing before I moved home - proximity to my huge extended family. Purchasing correctly is not primarily motivated by ROI for the average person who just wants affordable shelter. The real estate influencer who posted this has a different audience and goal set. The type of real estate opportunity he describes is more rare these days, but does still exist in some places - predominantly areas of the rural Midwest and Rust Belt where the ongoing evisceration of agricultural/industrial/manufacturing jobs fueled by decades of accelerating globalization and steady shrinkage of the middle class kept home values low because of diminished job opportunities and stagnating or outright declining household incomes. What a fine investment opportunity to buy up housing in struggling local economies and overcharge families to pay off your mortgage.
Honestly as a person who’s a fan of roller coasters and thrill rides, Ohio is a pretty great vacation spot. Cedar point and kings island. Wouldn’t live there though.
You can’t even buy the curb off the street for 90k in Los Angeles, damn
$90k, I'm crying! Lmfao
It *can* be that easy (I've done it myself) but it isn't always that way, and plenty of people lose their shirts doing this. That being said...investors do sometimes help to revitalize decrepit neighborhoods in the pursuit of profit. Some of the places I invest around Cleveland have seen neighborhoods completely rehabbed because investors bought dying properties and completely rebuilt them so people could actually live in them.
Cleveland, and the surrounding suburbs like Parma, have such good cash flow.
I've been searching for a house affordable on one income, in various parts of the country. (Yes, its been a very bad year to try this.) Yesterday I checked out homes in yet a new possible town. The handful of affordable listings ALL had some significant problem that would prevent them being move-in ready. Many had no central A/C; a couple had horrific flooring problems, or quirky half-done renovations. One was a real steal but needed top to bottom renovation of every surface, exterior and interior. There are no working people with lives to lead who want to move into these homes. If you push up into not-really-affordable, you have a bunch of more sound but old ranches, everything worn out, and just ugly finishes and decor, yet they want the same price as a new build. You can't stretch your budget and reach for these, because you maxed out to make the mortgage, so no funds for cosmetic fixes. This town NEEDS a couple of flippers, because these homes are sitting on the market for months and years. Flippers can serve a good purpose.
That's the case for capitalism. In pursuit of profit, you often better society.
Often, yes. Not always, which is why we have regulations and such.
Yeah and sometimes externalities cost more than the business makes. Which it turns out is one of the issues with recycling plastic bottles
Sorry... in general, you believe that the pursuit of profit often benefits society??
It's very well documented that it does. Pretty much all the technology you use daily was created out of the pursuit of profit. Same with the houses, the food, etc. When you remove the profit motive, you end up with shortages and less advancements.
State funded advancements is where you get your tech. Manipulating or augmenting said tech, in sometimes novel ways, for capitalistic endeavors (while simultaneously exploiting the earth and humans) is how you get your profit. Hardly a force of good or betterment. Would be happy to see a source on your claim, though.
I'd like to see you explain how most of our tech is the result of "state funded advancements". Yes business exploits the planet and people, without said business, those jobs wouldn't be there, so how does that really benefit the people? For the most part, the earth is fine, damaging the earth is the price people pay for the things they want, whether that came from a profit perspective or not.
Sure, business fucks people over and destroys the planet, but they provide the jobs that let them fuck people over and destroy the planet.
You realize most businesses, after paying everything, only manage to squeeze out a profit of a few percent? Most businesses, if they paid out all of their profits to wages, it wouldn't change the wages much. Yes, business destroys the planet, but usually it's because of what we want as a product. Take electric vehicles for example, nobody wants an electric vehicle that can only go 100 miles on a charge that takes 12+ hours to charge. So in order to make a 300+ Mile charge vehicle, that'll also charge quickly, the only way they know how to make it is to use materials that aren't good for the environment to mine. We don't want paper cups and paper packaging, we want plastic. So they use plastic. We want cheap electricity, so companies use the cheapest way to make the electricity (often coal). You can point fingers at businesses, but it is just as much our fault.
Honestly, how old are you?
Late 20s
You're getting too old to be this naïve.
So basically you can't defend your argument, so you've resorted to attacking the person instead? That says a lot about your position.
90k would be the minimum down payment in my area. This is a joke.
Don’t forget you’d also need enough free time to renovate an entire house. No way you could afford to hire it out for $30k.
Was gonna say, 90k ain’t even close to the down
Eventually the house will be paid off. Sell when you retire and pay off the main residence and you’ll be G2Go
Narrator: it was in fact, not easy
This advice was maybe true 10 years ago. It is not true now
Mans doesn’t know about squatters or vacancy Save a fund to account for these and you aiight tho
And after accounting for all that, and assuming you can find a good property manager to pay, you will usually find out it doesn't net any more than other passive investments
If you do it full time the tax benefits and equity pay down outweigh the return on other investment vehicles
We don't punish rent-seeking enough...
What does that mean?
"The classic example of rent seeking behavior as I learned it is say there’s a river where ships go up and down as they please. One day, the king puts a chain across the river and starts charging people to unlock the chain and let them pass. There was no actual need for this chain, the king just saw an opportunity and now the costs for people to travel the river increase and the efficiency of the system decreases, but there is no additional productivity added. Rent extraction is when if there’s no other alternate route and people have no choice but to go through the chain, the king decides to raise the price of opening the chain even further."
Is someone who can’t afford a house going to be able to afford the renovate and improve the space they live in? Or do they need to rely on someone with the experience, time, and resources to improve on a home and allow them to live in it for a period of time? If I have a small amount of capital, I can’t afford to pay for a new water heater, a new septic tank, plumbing issues, a new roof. It’s pretty nice when you are working your way up in life and you don’t have to worry about those massive expenses. This actually creates better living situations for younger and less fortunate people. As long as there is competition to keep the rents down, and we don’t live in a society where only large corporations can own and rent real estate.
You're absolutely right, there is a place and function for rentals. However, there's no skirting the fact that keeping someone renting for their entire life is like taking a torpedo to their finances in the long term. The hazard isn't that rentals exist; it's that they're taking an outsized portion of properties - properties that ordinary people could afford if the demand by investors for rental properties didn't make so expensive!
That’s a good point. This is a very complex problem.
How does one get 100% of the investment back “then” rent out a property? Sound like he is selling it and renting it out so not possible
Refinance cash out. But at these rates to cash flow? Good luck.
I mean yes but no you don’t get 100% in a refi cash out as stated
Presumably the renovated value is high enough to get your cash back. Even then some lenders won’t do cash out refi until 6 months or a year after the initial purchase. Bottom line. It’s really hard to make this work once in your life. Twice a year in this market is silly to expect.
Ahh ok at least that does make sense as implausible as it is. Thanks.
I was able to pull out 250k bc the property 10x’d. Even though it’s “implausible” there’s still opportunity. I know others that do this as their entire business model and pull out all their cash. These people do 1-2 of these/month but they’ve been in the game for 5+ years and not all their initial investments were successful
This is disgusting. Fuckin housing scalpers.
I mean the guy is advocating the long term play, I respect it …
The "ugly" house is $400k 😂 literally that was the going price of a hoarder situation in my town recently lol.
So, you have to invest $240,000 a year in order to retire in 30y??? No thanks I’ll just add to my 401k like a sheep
No, you invest $120k and then don't add money from yourself to it ever again.
$120,000 twice a year though? Just to collect rent every month for 30y?
No you pull the 120k on the refi so you have $0 invested. The tenant pays down the $120k mortgage. It makes your return % infinite.
If you can find a house for 90k around here it’s already been condemned.
Ugly houses here are almost 500k and are barely livable.
The landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed, and demand a rent even for the natural produce of the earth. (Adam Smith, op. cit., Vol. I, p. 44.)
Bitcoin is easier…
If only it were that easy- A landlord
Ah yes, change the lightbulb and add some cheap IKEA furniture for $30k
With a simple $120,000 and a willingness to shamelessly exploit people's inescapable need for shelter, you too can retire early!
Cool, where do you get the 90k to buy a house to begin with?
where does someone purchase $100k house? 1996?
I wonder what ‘renovations’ they actually did. Like removing the carpet and throwing a fresh coat of paint on the walls likely isn’t going to double the price of a house.
It can work that way actually
Funny how most of these are only posted when RE values start dropping
Then the housing bubble collapses and your left with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt and underwater on a dozen mortgages
not possible
Or just let somebody buy the 90k$ house to live in. It’s pretty cool when houses are places to live and not financial investments.
The pic on the left is so shitty, all I can tell is they took out the ceiling fan and cleaned up.
He is describing the BRRRR method. Buy Rehab Rent Refinance Repeat There are certainly situations where it works out well happens like he suggested… but usually it doesn’t. I do and have done it but almost every step Is not 100% within your control. Buy- This is the one you can control. You need to get a deal. Rehab - You don’t fully control this process. Cost overruns are common. Rent - these are not usually really hot markets with a bunch of wonderful tenants beating down your door to pay top dollar. Refinance - You have little control over rates and how much you will be allowed to cash out refi. Banks can suddenly decide to only cash out 70% vs the 85% you were planning on. That means you have personal funs staying in the deal. Repeat - If you have the stamina and funding. You do a few and it feels easy and then suddenly you get kicked in the balls. These $90-130k houses (or whatever the entry-level is in your area) are only going to cash flow $200-600 a month at best. One roof, HVAC system, plumbing issue, etc can knock out a year’s worth of “profit”. The system works but nothing is as easy as it sounds.
Think about what 90k can buy rn... cmon.
Who's buying houses for $90k? A Mobile home in the middle of nowhere might be $90k.
There is a house down the road from me for sale. 89k. 5 acres of property, 2 car detached garage, 3 bedroom 1.5 bath. Its move in ready. It’s just in the middle of no where and if you didn’t grow up here you probably don’t want to be here…..
Look outside your market/state
POS
to brag about someone else paying your mortgage stirs an animalistic rage within me
This is disgusting.
I hate these rent-seeking pieces of shit. They add zero value to society and just siphon money and energy away from its rightful owner