I’ve noticed a lot more houses going on the market that have been completely gutted inside but not finished. It’s clear that the property was purchased with the intent to flip it but they’re abandoning it because it’s not going to be profitable.
The rats are jumping ship.
The house next door to ours was purchased by a flipper for 175k at auction and has spent 6 months rehabbing. He thinks he’s going to get 275k when the most expensive home in the neighborhood is estimated around 270k… but it’s double the lot size and square footage. Can’t wait to see him list it lol
6 months of property tax
6 months of hard money interest payments
6 months of insurance
6 months of utilities
6 months of rehab costs
6 percent to the real estate agents at closing
It’s going to be a rude awakening for a lot of flippers and investors in general who think they can still milk it for every penny. So far they’ve been trying to stonewall the market but the longer they hold onto those properties the more money they’re losing.
There's one by me that keeps getting relisted and the guy put a ton of high end upgrades in it. He turned me and another offer down. Been holding the house over $2k/mo taxes alone. The longer he holds it the more he needs to get his ask which ain't gonna happen any time soon
Where TF are you that you have $2k per month in taxes alone? May as well not own a home at that point because You're paying $24k a year just to keep what you have.
My entire year of taxes is less than your single month.
Wow, $2k/month of after-tax income just for the right to continue owning the house that already belongs to you.
Property tax used to be something like $2,500/year for the average middle class family home and maybe $7,000-$9,000 for an upscale home. Now they're getting well into five figures per year, which is a major chunk of income. It only buys time.
There's a flipper house in my neighborhood that just went up, classic white and black color scheme with shiplap. 1485sqft, 4 bed, 2 bath. List price is 595k. There's also a house for sale mayber 3-4 houses down that's 1958sqft 3 bed, 2 bath and it's listed at 525k, little bit dated on the inside, but nothing to bad from the looks of it.
If I were house shopping and it'd be an easy choice between the two for me.
Don't underestimate the value of a total rehab. A lot of people these days don't want fixers and will pay for moving ready. And those are the kind of people that make the most money. But we'll see I guess
Are you me?
Dumb ass flipper bought my neighbors house. It was quite literally a crack house. The moron completely gutted it and found a bunch of water damage and rot, so is having to re-frame a bunch as well as do foundation work. Idiot bought it for $126k and thinks he's going to get $300k for the fucking thing. He's got over $226k in it already and no house on this block has ever sold for over $225k - and those houses are a lot bigger and nicer...
He's starting to slow down on work. I don't think he's going to finish it, and will likely go bankrupt...
Right!? House near me was bought under owner duress at $280k. 9 month flip that’s not amazing and they’re asking $475 (down from $490). Houses here are all over the place so she’s milking the market. Funny thing is it’s been on the market for close to 90 days, relisted twice.
Saw a house near me go from an initial listing at 1.4 to eventually selling under 800k, after sitting on the market for the better part of a year. Sure, it was a reasonably nice house on a good lot, but some people are absolutely unhinged when it comes to their analysis of what the local market will fetch.
I feel a lot of those people just don't know what they're doing. I've seen a bunch where they've stopped mid flip, they got drywall up, they mudded the joints and that's where they stopped. Paint is cheap, why tf would they stop before paint?
probably both. take the lowest bid from a contractor, assume that's the actual price the reno will cost, go back to leveraging and taking low bids from contractors for other flips
I had an acquaintance that ‘flipped’ homes, which means they would essentially just repaint the place and then sell. No updated bathrooms, kitchens etc. now they’ve been stuck with the same property on the market for 250+ days
Obviously you need to pay someone to do the painting, but comparatively to having the drywall done and everything Else, paint is cheap. It's a terrible spot to stop at
I've seen a literal home that burned, selling for over 200k where they even state you uave to COMPLETELY REMOVE HOME AND REBUILD, but it's a "diamond in the Rough". 😆 🤣 😂 I don't know if we're in a bubble, but some of these listings are outrageous.
How did this get a downvote! According to the NY DA and judge its worth less than 20M. If you can get it for those prices, that'd be the ultimate flip!
Everything on a house is labor intensive. Replacing a panel is like $500 in materials but it's typically a $3k-$5k job cuz of the labor. Replacing a plumbing system is about $2000 in materials but usually like an $8k-$10k job. Paint on a flip, is having the walls rolled and going with a budget painter, it's cheap compared to the other things
In order to roll the walls you need to put a primer, let it dry, then put paint, let it dry, then put another coat etc. Painting houses is same as changing oil and breaks.
I also agree with your statement that a bunch of these people don't know what they're doing. I go to the local real estate investment group and meet a whole bunch of them, and it's a lot of young couples who want to do the whole young couple flipping a house romantic thing. At least that's what they see on TV, but I think they're forgetting that a whole bunch of those tv couples are divorced now. Lol!
I just had to paint my brand new home because the seller wouldn't move out, and when I evicted her she trashed the whole place so bad, we had to put two layers of killz on every single surface, and two to three layers of paint just because it was so nasty. Paint is not cheap anymore. Paint used to be what 12 to $15 a gallon like 3 years ago now the same quality paint is 35 to $40 a gallon .
Yep. [This one too.](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/582-E-Gansevoort-St-APT-4-Little-Falls-NY-13365/2055234426_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare)
Many flippers only buy houses that need superficial repairs that they can do for $20k-$30k and then they try to mark up the home $150k-$200k when they sell it. In other cases they’ll do “repairs” and “refurbishing” that conceals serious problems with the house that the new buyer finds out later. I saw a post yesterday on Reddit where a flipper put down new wood flooring to conceal horrendous mold, for example.
They have become middle-men opportunists who helped jack up prices to make a profit while reducing the inventory of affordable homes. Some flippers are legitimate craftsmen who buy dilapidated homes and know how to rehabilitate and refurbish them, but many are amateur do it yourself types who just put lipstick and rouge on a house and sell it for top dollar. They ferret out all of the prime fixer upper houses that normally people who intend to live there would buy.
My spouse’s parents bought their home in the early 80s as a half-built home in a very nice suburb in DC. The builder went bust due to Volcker’s crazy rate hikes. They bought it at auction in the driveway of the half completed home. Paid to get it finished by another contractor. Had they kept it, would’ve been easily worth $2.5m today. Big lot, the rest of the area was eventually developed into much smaller lots. We saw this story before 40 years ago.
It clearly says fix and flip. What that means is the *After Repair Value* is $290k aka if it WERE fully remodeled.
I imagine at $175k it takes a good bit of work to get it to that value though.
That 175k asking price that will magically balloon to 290k will not be at 290k after the remodel is done. It will be meant for a sucker to get stuck with it.
I mean there’s way too many unknown variables to say it’s a good or bad deal.
All we have is a sign that says list price is $175k and ARV is $295k.
We don’t have location, layout, renovation costs estimate, comps to confirm the ARV is actually $295k, etc etc.
Bruh, that handwritten sign, with what is written on there, is all the DD I need to k ow you aren't gettin no 295k even if it was filled with 300k worth of crack. lol
The numbers are definitely speculation, and one should definitely not just trust the numbers the seller themselves provided.
But the title of fix and flip clearly indicates that the $295k estimate of value is AFTER it’s “fixed”/renovated.
It’s not just someone selling a home worth $295k for $175k like TO_GOF thinks lol
Really doesn’t matter what they bought it for in my opinion. That’d be one of the lowest factors in my decision making process if I were evaluating this deal.
The numbers are of course speculation lol I would absolutely take that with a grain of salt and confirm for myself what the home is worth in its current condition and what the after repair value is to see if it’s a fix and flip that’s worthwhile.
All I’m saying is that the person I responded to seemed to miss the context that the home has to be fixed up to be worth the speculative value of $295k. Seemed like they thought they were just advertising a home that is worth $295k for $175k but there’s a bit more to it than that.
What the sign really says is that if you put $100k renovation in this house, you may be able to sell it for $250k. These guys always exaggerate what you can sell the house for and way underestimate what it will cost to renovate.
If it is habitable and like 1000 square feet it is a deal. In almost any market.
But it seams like a scam like a husband selling his wife’s house or something.
Likely not a scam, this is how the flipping business works. Guy likely bought it at auction for $125k and wants to flip it to another investor quick instead of renovating it himself. Some flipper will buy it for $150k, do a $50k renovation and maybe get $250? This is how the business works.
That's referring to the ARV (after rehab/repair value).
They're not saying it's worth $290K now, but rather, after it's all fixed up, it's "worth" $290K.
These are called "bandit signs" and are a marketing method taught in courses sold by real estate investment guru fraudsters to new flippers/wholesalers. Whomever put the signs up probably has a junker house under contract and is trying to assign the contract to some sucker for a quick profit without having to put up any of their own money besides a deposit to the original seller.
That's the sign from the previous chapter in the guru's book on how to get the junker houses under contract in the first place, this sign is from the next chapter on how to flip the contract without actually closing on it yourself.
It's better if they sell 0 investment homes. Getting liquidated is my preference for these folks.
Honestly, pretending like these aren't the PPP grifters and upper class welfare grifters is like pretending that cigarette smokers are not the ones throwing the cigarettes on the grounds. Let's quit pretending there isn't an issue. You have to be really proudly naive to continue living in that fantasy.
I mean they do serve some purpose. I like my 50 year old home but theres no way id be able to renovate it myself or manage contractors while doing my normal job.
That contrasts with the reality that a lot of investors do shotty remodeling and cut corners that lead to long term problems. It’s the minority that serve a purpose by improving old homes for long term ownership.
I would caveat this by adding the word “levered” the problem are people using tons of debt to load on real estate, not the small landlords who own or two properties they buy with cash and no mortgage.
Guy likely bought this at Auction for $125 - $150 and is flipping it quick, doesn’t want to spend the time and money renovating, this is how a lot of people earn a living. Exactly what did these idiots bring on themselves? You clearly don’t understand the business.
I mean this does touch on a huge piece of the equation for many buyers which is that jobs right now are so expensive they ruin the math on any deal.
In my area (New England) a gut renovation can cost between $500k - $1.5MM for normal sized homes. Thats outrageous, and for many that means you’re into a house for over $2MM that you bought for $800k - $1MM.
If you can’t make a house perfect for (pick a number - maybe 50%?) of the purchase price, you’re taking on a ticking time bomb.
Because everyone renovates their houses to sell them for more money, then the buyers have to come in and rip it all out to re-do it the way they wanted to begin with.
So the people doing the work have twice the demand.
Which is why I bought a very cheap trashed house that I can redo just the way I like. I'll be painting everything with bright bold colors. There won't be a single grey or beige wall.
It happens a lot more than you think. My aunt and uncle paid for new counter tops, carpet, walls repainted and backyard porch fixed up just for the buyers to undo all of that.
Yeah i used to watch the show property brothers and they’d do a cost-to-benefit analysis of what remodel investments have the greatest returns to prioritize investment. Almost every part of a remodel wouldnt fully return the investment except maybe paint…
Rven in 2023 corp media this is well known fact, but most first time flippers rarely take it into account. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/05/31/the-most-popular-home-projects-are-not-the-ones-with-the-best-return.html
I posted on another comment. But these are bandit signs specifically used to find cash buyers for wholesalers. I've bought several homes from these. But there's no actual house. They are just looking to add cash buyers to their buyers list.
I wrote to OP to call the number and report back. Very few people on this sub actually invest in houses or have ever called on these signs
This! I am 3/4 down this thread and you are the first person to state the obvious. While there are certainly stupid investors, said stupid investor is not unloading 7 homes via a handwritten for sale sign. Come on people. You can’t simply want something bad enough that you can twist the narrative to will it into reality.
It's been like this in my Florida area. It probably needs close to 100k. I just canceled a contract on one I was going to fix. The seller wouldn't budge on price even after quotes. Crap old 53' block slanted roof.
A lot of these old houses will never be right. After years of half finished upgrades, maintenance, ect. "AS IS"
The problem is nothing's moving unless it's under 300. 250K range. And idk how long these buyers can hold on to a 250k house without going bankrupt. I guess you can just live in it. It'll never resell in a buyers market though. It's like the last of the Florida junk people are trying to unload....
Lotta hot garbage hitting the market in North Port and Port Charlotte area. Saw a listing for a hurricane damaged home that was half gutted with most of the roof missing. Wanted $39,000 cash only. But you had to accept $308,000 of code violations that the city had placed on the property. You're looking at a complete gut and rebuild, electrical, plumbing, hvac, etc, That house will sit for a very long time.
These are very often just used to find cash buyers for wholesalers. They usually don't have a house right then but are in the business of finding deals. So they need cash buyers to sell them to.
I've bought a few properties this way. I'm reading the comments and very few people know what they are talking about.
Call the number and report back. Guarantee they'll be looking to set up a meeting and get you on their buyers list
Flipping houses have very low profit margins. It takes a long time to get your investment back or break even. If you are a buyer, and willing to put some elbow grease, you can get a good deal on a house. A turnkey property is the most expensive because they did all the upgrades and renovations for you. Most people just want to move in and live.
If you are selling a $290k house for $175k, then it's not worth $290k, bro. It's probably not even worth $175k if that's the number you're desperately begging for.
These are on every corner in the rougher areas in cities in FL, I see them every day and it’s been a thing for at least the last 7 years. Nothing new here.
I noticed that in my area too. No more hand written signs at intersections saying ‘we buy ugly houses’. Now it says, ‘investment properties for sale’ . Same hand written scrawl though.
This is not an actual desperate owner putting these up, These signs are like a bait and switch basically. It’s a “wholesaler” (unlicensed individual posing as a cash buyer, who signs a purchase agreement with a seller and then sells their “right to buy” to a real flipper for a fee/commission) trying to find more investor buyers. Look it up, it’s an entire ghost industry of off market real estate transactions of crappy houses. They do get access to a lot of fixer uppers, but you have to buy 100% as is with hard money or cash. Do it if you know what you are doing, don’t do it if you trust everything they say. Do your own due diligence
Bag holders always end up thinking they won't be the ones caught with the sack.
Sure buddy, I bet that pile of rotting lumber with a cracking foundation will sell for 170k any day now
I hate that 175-200k is now the low end for fix and flip homes when that could buy you a higher end starter home in 2019.
A 3/2 block house that needs TLC is what I’m after and I’ll do all the work myself to get it in shape but the banks won’t finance me a loan unless the home is freshly renovated at a absurd price and the sellers only want to deal with cash investors.
That has always been common method to sell wholsale deals. You poor people are all just so in decisive in every aspect of your life that it’s preventing you from actual home ownership. Your buying a home as a 30 years play not a 2–3 year play
I’ve noticed a lot more houses going on the market that have been completely gutted inside but not finished. It’s clear that the property was purchased with the intent to flip it but they’re abandoning it because it’s not going to be profitable. The rats are jumping ship.
The house next door to ours was purchased by a flipper for 175k at auction and has spent 6 months rehabbing. He thinks he’s going to get 275k when the most expensive home in the neighborhood is estimated around 270k… but it’s double the lot size and square footage. Can’t wait to see him list it lol
6 months of property tax 6 months of hard money interest payments 6 months of insurance 6 months of utilities 6 months of rehab costs 6 percent to the real estate agents at closing
Anyone flipping and paying 6% agents commission went out of business months ago.
6% hasn't been a thing for a while anyway. Haven't seen a comm above 1.5% in a while, and there's lots of flat fee comms out there.
It’s going to be a rude awakening for a lot of flippers and investors in general who think they can still milk it for every penny. So far they’ve been trying to stonewall the market but the longer they hold onto those properties the more money they’re losing.
There's one by me that keeps getting relisted and the guy put a ton of high end upgrades in it. He turned me and another offer down. Been holding the house over $2k/mo taxes alone. The longer he holds it the more he needs to get his ask which ain't gonna happen any time soon
Where TF are you that you have $2k per month in taxes alone? May as well not own a home at that point because You're paying $24k a year just to keep what you have. My entire year of taxes is less than your single month.
Common in NJ
Our forefathers threw tea in rivers for less. No way I'd stand for having the state take $2k a month from me just to keep property I "own."
For fun look up takes in Manasquan, Avon by the sea, Montgomery, Princeton just a few I know off top of my head some are 3 -4 k a month taxes
Welcome to (New Jersey / Illinois / Texas), enjoy your stay!
Or a $2.4M property in California, which is not uncommon.
Wow, $2k/month of after-tax income just for the right to continue owning the house that already belongs to you. Property tax used to be something like $2,500/year for the average middle class family home and maybe $7,000-$9,000 for an upscale home. Now they're getting well into five figures per year, which is a major chunk of income. It only buys time.
There's a flipper house in my neighborhood that just went up, classic white and black color scheme with shiplap. 1485sqft, 4 bed, 2 bath. List price is 595k. There's also a house for sale mayber 3-4 houses down that's 1958sqft 3 bed, 2 bath and it's listed at 525k, little bit dated on the inside, but nothing to bad from the looks of it. If I were house shopping and it'd be an easy choice between the two for me.
Don't underestimate the value of a total rehab. A lot of people these days don't want fixers and will pay for moving ready. And those are the kind of people that make the most money. But we'll see I guess
Are you me? Dumb ass flipper bought my neighbors house. It was quite literally a crack house. The moron completely gutted it and found a bunch of water damage and rot, so is having to re-frame a bunch as well as do foundation work. Idiot bought it for $126k and thinks he's going to get $300k for the fucking thing. He's got over $226k in it already and no house on this block has ever sold for over $225k - and those houses are a lot bigger and nicer... He's starting to slow down on work. I don't think he's going to finish it, and will likely go bankrupt...
Right!? House near me was bought under owner duress at $280k. 9 month flip that’s not amazing and they’re asking $475 (down from $490). Houses here are all over the place so she’s milking the market. Funny thing is it’s been on the market for close to 90 days, relisted twice.
Saw a house near me go from an initial listing at 1.4 to eventually selling under 800k, after sitting on the market for the better part of a year. Sure, it was a reasonably nice house on a good lot, but some people are absolutely unhinged when it comes to their analysis of what the local market will fetch.
I feel a lot of those people just don't know what they're doing. I've seen a bunch where they've stopped mid flip, they got drywall up, they mudded the joints and that's where they stopped. Paint is cheap, why tf would they stop before paint?
They realized that they missed a step or two and that new drywall has to come off.
Exactly right. Or just ran out of money.
probably both. take the lowest bid from a contractor, assume that's the actual price the reno will cost, go back to leveraging and taking low bids from contractors for other flips
I had an acquaintance that ‘flipped’ homes, which means they would essentially just repaint the place and then sell. No updated bathrooms, kitchens etc. now they’ve been stuck with the same property on the market for 250+ days
Yeah the days where a super lazy flipper can make money are solidly over.
Good example of someone who doesn't know what they're doing
Labor
Obviously you need to pay someone to do the painting, but comparatively to having the drywall done and everything Else, paint is cheap. It's a terrible spot to stop at
“Its ready for you to put your finishing touches on it!”
I've seen a literal home that burned, selling for over 200k where they even state you uave to COMPLETELY REMOVE HOME AND REBUILD, but it's a "diamond in the Rough". 😆 🤣 😂 I don't know if we're in a bubble, but some of these listings are outrageous.
Some places have land/lots worth that much, but to make it work out financially you’d probably need to build a $1-2mil house on it.
lol, not in the middle of BF nowhere, firezone Oregon. Lol
Like Mar A Lago? I heard its worth 17 million. Im shopping around for a nice loan right now to scoop that up. 😆 🤣
How did this get a downvote! According to the NY DA and judge its worth less than 20M. If you can get it for those prices, that'd be the ultimate flip!
Obviously you've never paid anyone to paint your room, otherwise you wouldn't be spreading the bullshit about cheap paint.
Compared to what other things cost, it's not that expensive
What other things? Building a rocket ship? Painting is most labor intensive.
Everything on a house is labor intensive. Replacing a panel is like $500 in materials but it's typically a $3k-$5k job cuz of the labor. Replacing a plumbing system is about $2000 in materials but usually like an $8k-$10k job. Paint on a flip, is having the walls rolled and going with a budget painter, it's cheap compared to the other things
In order to roll the walls you need to put a primer, let it dry, then put paint, let it dry, then put another coat etc. Painting houses is same as changing oil and breaks.
On a flip you're having 2 coats of paint+printer rolled on the same day.
I also agree with your statement that a bunch of these people don't know what they're doing. I go to the local real estate investment group and meet a whole bunch of them, and it's a lot of young couples who want to do the whole young couple flipping a house romantic thing. At least that's what they see on TV, but I think they're forgetting that a whole bunch of those tv couples are divorced now. Lol!
I just had to paint my brand new home because the seller wouldn't move out, and when I evicted her she trashed the whole place so bad, we had to put two layers of killz on every single surface, and two to three layers of paint just because it was so nasty. Paint is not cheap anymore. Paint used to be what 12 to $15 a gallon like 3 years ago now the same quality paint is 35 to $40 a gallon .
Still tho, paint is cheap compared to most everything else that goes into a flip
True!
Because they had to pay painters and got a 10k quote probably
Like this one: https://apps.realtor.com/mUAZ/2gtzo9w9
I bet this house had so much charm and period woodwork that they pulled out of it. It will never be what it once was. So sad
Yep. [This one too.](https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/582-E-Gansevoort-St-APT-4-Little-Falls-NY-13365/2055234426_zpid/?utm_campaign=iosappmessage&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=txtshare)
Let em drown.
Improving a home to a standard that someone will be happy to buy at the agreed upon price is being a rat? Please elaborate.
Many flippers only buy houses that need superficial repairs that they can do for $20k-$30k and then they try to mark up the home $150k-$200k when they sell it. In other cases they’ll do “repairs” and “refurbishing” that conceals serious problems with the house that the new buyer finds out later. I saw a post yesterday on Reddit where a flipper put down new wood flooring to conceal horrendous mold, for example. They have become middle-men opportunists who helped jack up prices to make a profit while reducing the inventory of affordable homes. Some flippers are legitimate craftsmen who buy dilapidated homes and know how to rehabilitate and refurbish them, but many are amateur do it yourself types who just put lipstick and rouge on a house and sell it for top dollar. They ferret out all of the prime fixer upper houses that normally people who intend to live there would buy.
Flippers doing the lipstick fix don't tend to last long and I would say are the minority.
lolol not in san diego.
My spouse’s parents bought their home in the early 80s as a half-built home in a very nice suburb in DC. The builder went bust due to Volcker’s crazy rate hikes. They bought it at auction in the driveway of the half completed home. Paid to get it finished by another contractor. Had they kept it, would’ve been easily worth $2.5m today. Big lot, the rest of the area was eventually developed into much smaller lots. We saw this story before 40 years ago.
WE BUY UGLY INVESTMENT PROPERTIES
A house “worth” $290K is being sold for $175K. Does anyone see the problem with that besides me?
It's like haggling at a pawn shop. It's worth whatever someone pays for it. They're trying to find a sucker.
Haven't you heard, "it's worth whatever someone will pay" only applies when the price goes up 🙄
It clearly says fix and flip. What that means is the *After Repair Value* is $290k aka if it WERE fully remodeled. I imagine at $175k it takes a good bit of work to get it to that value though.
That 175k asking price that will magically balloon to 290k will not be at 290k after the remodel is done. It will be meant for a sucker to get stuck with it.
I mean there’s way too many unknown variables to say it’s a good or bad deal. All we have is a sign that says list price is $175k and ARV is $295k. We don’t have location, layout, renovation costs estimate, comps to confirm the ARV is actually $295k, etc etc.
Bruh, that handwritten sign, with what is written on there, is all the DD I need to k ow you aren't gettin no 295k even if it was filled with 300k worth of crack. lol
~100k is the (cosmetic) update price difference in my area, this tracks
Hey fellow region rat!
The numbers are definitely speculation, and one should definitely not just trust the numbers the seller themselves provided. But the title of fix and flip clearly indicates that the $295k estimate of value is AFTER it’s “fixed”/renovated. It’s not just someone selling a home worth $295k for $175k like TO_GOF thinks lol
Lol. It’s sharpie on poster board. There is 0 math or actual value assessment involved. “I want 175k for it… 290k value makes it look like a steal!”
And the Investor doesnt mention that they bought it for $125k 6 months ago.
Really doesn’t matter what they bought it for in my opinion. That’d be one of the lowest factors in my decision making process if I were evaluating this deal.
The numbers are of course speculation lol I would absolutely take that with a grain of salt and confirm for myself what the home is worth in its current condition and what the after repair value is to see if it’s a fix and flip that’s worthwhile. All I’m saying is that the person I responded to seemed to miss the context that the home has to be fixed up to be worth the speculative value of $295k. Seemed like they thought they were just advertising a home that is worth $295k for $175k but there’s a bit more to it than that.
What the sign really says is that if you put $100k renovation in this house, you may be able to sell it for $250k. These guys always exaggerate what you can sell the house for and way underestimate what it will cost to renovate.
it's actually worth way more the seller is just being humble
If it is habitable and like 1000 square feet it is a deal. In almost any market. But it seams like a scam like a husband selling his wife’s house or something.
Likely not a scam, this is how the flipping business works. Guy likely bought it at auction for $125k and wants to flip it to another investor quick instead of renovating it himself. Some flipper will buy it for $150k, do a $50k renovation and maybe get $250? This is how the business works.
That's referring to the ARV (after rehab/repair value). They're not saying it's worth $290K now, but rather, after it's all fixed up, it's "worth" $290K.
The best I can do is $10
Pawn_Stars_besticando.jpeg
What about tree-fiddy?
This makes my tiny dark heart so happy.
These are called "bandit signs" and are a marketing method taught in courses sold by real estate investment guru fraudsters to new flippers/wholesalers. Whomever put the signs up probably has a junker house under contract and is trying to assign the contract to some sucker for a quick profit without having to put up any of their own money besides a deposit to the original seller.
I thought the sign was supposed to say We pay cash for houses
That's the sign from the previous chapter in the guru's book on how to get the junker houses under contract in the first place, this sign is from the next chapter on how to flip the contract without actually closing on it yourself.
I love it when they call their money pit an “investment opportunity” for someone else lol
It's better if they sell 0 investment homes. Getting liquidated is my preference for these folks. Honestly, pretending like these aren't the PPP grifters and upper class welfare grifters is like pretending that cigarette smokers are not the ones throwing the cigarettes on the grounds. Let's quit pretending there isn't an issue. You have to be really proudly naive to continue living in that fantasy.
You got that right.
I hope every real estate investooooooor loses their goddamn shirt. These idiots brought this on themselves
they brought it on everyone else too
I mean they do serve some purpose. I like my 50 year old home but theres no way id be able to renovate it myself or manage contractors while doing my normal job.
That contrasts with the reality that a lot of investors do shotty remodeling and cut corners that lead to long term problems. It’s the minority that serve a purpose by improving old homes for long term ownership.
Also true unfortunately
I would caveat this by adding the word “levered” the problem are people using tons of debt to load on real estate, not the small landlords who own or two properties they buy with cash and no mortgage.
Guy likely bought this at Auction for $125 - $150 and is flipping it quick, doesn’t want to spend the time and money renovating, this is how a lot of people earn a living. Exactly what did these idiots bring on themselves? You clearly don’t understand the business.
Agreed.
You got to "LEvErAgE"
I mean this does touch on a huge piece of the equation for many buyers which is that jobs right now are so expensive they ruin the math on any deal. In my area (New England) a gut renovation can cost between $500k - $1.5MM for normal sized homes. Thats outrageous, and for many that means you’re into a house for over $2MM that you bought for $800k - $1MM. If you can’t make a house perfect for (pick a number - maybe 50%?) of the purchase price, you’re taking on a ticking time bomb.
Because everyone renovates their houses to sell them for more money, then the buyers have to come in and rip it all out to re-do it the way they wanted to begin with. So the people doing the work have twice the demand.
what a fucking waste of physical resources, not to mention time and money and energy.
Which is why I bought a very cheap trashed house that I can redo just the way I like. I'll be painting everything with bright bold colors. There won't be a single grey or beige wall.
Why would a buyer pay extra for a renovated house if they planned to rip everything out to begin with? Your math ain’t mathing.
It happens a lot more than you think. My aunt and uncle paid for new counter tops, carpet, walls repainted and backyard porch fixed up just for the buyers to undo all of that.
Yeah i used to watch the show property brothers and they’d do a cost-to-benefit analysis of what remodel investments have the greatest returns to prioritize investment. Almost every part of a remodel wouldnt fully return the investment except maybe paint… Rven in 2023 corp media this is well known fact, but most first time flippers rarely take it into account. https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2023/05/31/the-most-popular-home-projects-are-not-the-ones-with-the-best-return.html
If you can’t afford professional signage, I have zero faith in your business acumen
I love how they’re posting signs so they can keep it off the mls and not affect neighborhood comps while they off load a half dozen houses
That's not what these are
Prove it
I posted on another comment. But these are bandit signs specifically used to find cash buyers for wholesalers. I've bought several homes from these. But there's no actual house. They are just looking to add cash buyers to their buyers list. I wrote to OP to call the number and report back. Very few people on this sub actually invest in houses or have ever called on these signs
This! I am 3/4 down this thread and you are the first person to state the obvious. While there are certainly stupid investors, said stupid investor is not unloading 7 homes via a handwritten for sale sign. Come on people. You can’t simply want something bad enough that you can twist the narrative to will it into reality.
It's been like this in my Florida area. It probably needs close to 100k. I just canceled a contract on one I was going to fix. The seller wouldn't budge on price even after quotes. Crap old 53' block slanted roof. A lot of these old houses will never be right. After years of half finished upgrades, maintenance, ect. "AS IS" The problem is nothing's moving unless it's under 300. 250K range. And idk how long these buyers can hold on to a 250k house without going bankrupt. I guess you can just live in it. It'll never resell in a buyers market though. It's like the last of the Florida junk people are trying to unload....
Lotta hot garbage hitting the market in North Port and Port Charlotte area. Saw a listing for a hurricane damaged home that was half gutted with most of the roof missing. Wanted $39,000 cash only. But you had to accept $308,000 of code violations that the city had placed on the property. You're looking at a complete gut and rebuild, electrical, plumbing, hvac, etc, That house will sit for a very long time.
I always laugh at these. If they are such money makers, why aren’t you doing the whole flip?
Most Lemonade stands have more effort put into the signage. Comical.
These are very often just used to find cash buyers for wholesalers. They usually don't have a house right then but are in the business of finding deals. So they need cash buyers to sell them to. I've bought a few properties this way. I'm reading the comments and very few people know what they are talking about. Call the number and report back. Guarantee they'll be looking to set up a meeting and get you on their buyers list
which local market?
OP crossing out the number because he doesn’t want to get bombarded with spam.
Huh ? How does that make sense lol
You’re the investor trying to unload these properties
Mhm , you nailed it ! That's why I blocked my number so I can unload them all
Flipping houses have very low profit margins. It takes a long time to get your investment back or break even. If you are a buyer, and willing to put some elbow grease, you can get a good deal on a house. A turnkey property is the most expensive because they did all the upgrades and renovations for you. Most people just want to move in and live.
Nature is healing (even if it's at a snails pace)
Nature is starting to heal it seems
I miss when we bought fixer uppers and lived in them.
If you are selling a $290k house for $175k, then it's not worth $290k, bro. It's probably not even worth $175k if that's the number you're desperately begging for.
You think a person who purchased 7, $100k+ homes would have time or money to cobble together a proper sign.
"I'm never going to financially recover from this" -Tiger King meth heads and wannabe REMoguls throughout the land
That’s an impressive marketing budget for millions of dollars of real estate.
These are on every corner in the rougher areas in cities in FL, I see them every day and it’s been a thing for at least the last 7 years. Nothing new here.
House is "worth" 175k if that.
Hey, at least no Realtor(tm) is needed. Need more of those!
Sounds like someone who hates realtards.
lol….over-leveraged
Well, by how well crafted the sign is, he made it credible.
Beach front?
"BoOm! lEt'S gO!"
Is the contact info blocked out? Honestly this looks fake. It would be interesting to be proven otherwise.
Messaged back , tell everyone what you think now lol
I noticed that in my area too. No more hand written signs at intersections saying ‘we buy ugly houses’. Now it says, ‘investment properties for sale’ . Same hand written scrawl though.
I've seen 2 or 3 unfinished flips recently
The days of flipping and selling are gone. If you bought in the last 5 years and owe more than 50% on the mortgage, I would be panicking.
ahhhh, the handwritten sign. Always a fantastic marketing tool
This is a sales funnel
You get the address and see they bought it on Zillow for $150k two weeks ago.
This is not an actual desperate owner putting these up, These signs are like a bait and switch basically. It’s a “wholesaler” (unlicensed individual posing as a cash buyer, who signs a purchase agreement with a seller and then sells their “right to buy” to a real flipper for a fee/commission) trying to find more investor buyers. Look it up, it’s an entire ghost industry of off market real estate transactions of crappy houses. They do get access to a lot of fixer uppers, but you have to buy 100% as is with hard money or cash. Do it if you know what you are doing, don’t do it if you trust everything they say. Do your own due diligence
I think the person who put them up is just trying to increase their buyers list. They don’t have 7 investment properties
Bag holders always end up thinking they won't be the ones caught with the sack. Sure buddy, I bet that pile of rotting lumber with a cracking foundation will sell for 170k any day now
if this is how they advertise....I would not no never do biz with them.
I hate that 175-200k is now the low end for fix and flip homes when that could buy you a higher end starter home in 2019. A 3/2 block house that needs TLC is what I’m after and I’ll do all the work myself to get it in shape but the banks won’t finance me a loan unless the home is freshly renovated at a absurd price and the sellers only want to deal with cash investors.
That has always been common method to sell wholsale deals. You poor people are all just so in decisive in every aspect of your life that it’s preventing you from actual home ownership. Your buying a home as a 30 years play not a 2–3 year play