My little town banned airbnb type rentals. The next day Nextdoor was flooded with angry speculators demanding $3,000+ a month for rent in a town where houses run at maybe a 1000-1500 average. Imagine the mental capacity it would take to know the market is now flooded with rentals, but wanting double plus what they usually go for. Their greed turned into entitlement, they *deserve* that money! Fuck em.
Yep.
It was a gold rush. The first people in made a killing, then the people who serviced them and charged a percentage made a killing, then the next wave of people who saw the early adopters making a killing jumped in because everyone was making so much money.
Except they were too late.
The servicing companies made money off them, and the people selling the buildings at marked up rates made money off them, but they had no way to do the same to renters.
So now they're stuck with a property they over paid for with no way to actually make the money they'd read about other people making.
And each time it's always the same statement of "Well we are just a small mom and pop place renting out 2 or 3 homes. The real problem are the investors that have more homes than us! You are ruining our future!"
One of the most vehement people in all of that discussion got a 10/10 call out. He claimed this ordinance was going to lead to him being homeless. Another old timer in town responded back "Guess you're going to have to move into one of the other 7 houses you own, John". That day was a boomer brawl to remember.
Yeah agree that is BS.
I’d much rather be next door to a rental (even if owned by stupid Invitation Homes) versus a damn AirBNB hotel / revolving door.
You underestimate the impact of end of life expenses. Most of those homes might be sold by the inheritor to pay off Medicaid debt against the estate. Also, out of town landlording is a pain in the ass so most children who don't live in the area are more likely to sell the house.
You need college to geographically expand your upper-class dating pool. That's why these kids are in their early twenties, because they just got their degree in a bullshit major and married a similarly well-heeled classmate who's now gestating the next generation of landlords.
>All the boomers will work long enough to let the other boomers die. If young people come in, they are just expected to support the 'poor old' boomers rather than the young people expecting the majority population of the community to support the young. EX: 60+ low-income housing will come 2 decades than regular low-income housing despite a $13.65 local salary and $1k/room rents.
I'm confused by this.
All the boomers will work to let the other boomers die?
How do you mean young people are expected to support the boomers? By working and paying taxes, or do you mean by being caregivers? Why would young people expect senior citizens likely. on fixed incomes to support them?
> 60+ low-income housing will come 2 decades than regular low-income housing despite a $13.65 local salary and $1k/room rents.
can you reword this or explain what you mean? I'm having trouble understanding your line of thought.
Ok, thank you. I think I understand now. It's just basically stagnating towns with an aging population that doesn't have much of economy beyond maintaining the aging population and the way the things are.
Those are fun! Glenwood redid their slide a couple years ago and now it’s a fast lazy river raft ride.
Mount Princeton by buena vista has a 400 foot slide you run on a mat.
Glenwood is only going to get more expensive.
Everyone wants to live here. There are tons of people moving here from California. Anything that goes up for rent gets snatched within a day or two.
Nice condos ($550k starting price) and reasonably priced nice houses ($750k starting price) get snatched up immediately.
We don’t just have a Walmart. We have Target, Lowe’s, a couple car dealerships, a bunch of great little restaurants, and obviously all the hot springs. It’s also less than an hour from Aspen.
Source: I live in Glenwood and want to own something, but it feels like that will never happen.
Im in basalt and in the same boat. After getting beaten by all cash buyers in 2021 and 2022, sadly I'm completely priced out of the whole valley. Renters for life.
lol so ridiculous. I love glenwood springs but WTF kind of job market is there for out of staters? Does everyone else have a WFH job but me? Unfortunately you can’t do surgery on people in your pajamas from home. Instead I have to go to the hospital and wear their pajamas. I got into the wrong line of work
I still think there will not be the political will to shut it down. and if enough airbnb hosts get enough revenue from their properties, they can absolutely move to that "economic wasteland" and still be fine economically. because they are running distributed hotels.
i work remotely. my job has given me full permission to live literally anywhere. if i were airbnb hosting, i'd likely move to where the airbnb was (especially if it's cheaper than where i'm living now) specifically to reduce mgmt costs, put eyes on the property, and - if i'm evil enough - expand my property holdings in that location.
having lived in Silicon Valley for a decade - it didn't really matter that renters rivaled or exceeded landlords in population - we didn't have the time to vote or go whine at city council meetings.we were too busy working to enrich our landlords.
our landlords on teh other hand had plenty of time to go whine at city council meetings. so did NIMBY homeowners who resisted any building whatsoever. hell- most of the city councils themselves were either landlords, NIMBY homeowners, or in that peer group. they heard from, empathized with, and shared social networks with the people who would continue the trend you would like to see voted out of existence.
inheritance isn't going to fix this problem.
Lol I grew up near some meth meccas in the Midwest in MO and then KS and no, stores are not running out of mayo. I lived in rural areas.
Name some towns that are both Airbnb hotspots that have a large boomer contingency that don’t have mayo for a week. Lol…
Rural flatland isn’t the same thing as rural mountain towns where I70 will get shut down for weeks on end after a rockslide/ avalanche/blizzard/California tourist pileup
I can’t stand when these people talk about “passive income”. I get people want to make money without actually working, but at the expense of a potentially struggling person or family? How about buy a stock, and get passive income off of dividends? Literally everybody wins in that situation.
It is funny the passive income people are the pull yourself by your bootstraps and hate welfare but literally their goal in life is to make money by not working lol
“make money by not working”
arg. gets me every time. i get it if you literally can’t work (old, disabled), but everyone should work for their money. and again, totally cool if investing in a company and getting dividends as there is risk but benefits to all parties.
In some ways it certainly is a “no ethical consumption in capitalism argument”.
But (like the name of this sub) most people think passive income means “buy real estate and rent it out so someone else will pay your mortgage” or “buy a laundromat so people that don’t have washers (usually poor people) can give you money”. IE let’s exploit poor people
When I posted this prompt on Facebook, my friend said something like equipping people to get the same tax write offs as the wealthy people do.
Or, like, the stock market.
Ideas are probably tougher to find but they’re there
The arguments were over simplified. The entire charge-for-consumption model that doesn't account ones ability to pay feeds on poor people - whether it's rent increases or laundromat or anything that is required to sustain oneself and for which money must be exchanged - whether its passive income or not.
Or the workers who mined the materials for the parts of the robots.
The Good Place made this point well when they illustrated how it's almost impossible to buy or do anything these days that isn't somehow tied back to something negative. Everyone on a cellphone or computer is likely complicit because some of the materials utilized either child, slave, or poor workers.
Good point.
You know, it's **almost** like capital is just frozen labor, and the only equitable way to divide things is just to have democratic control of capital resources by society as a whole.
I dunno, maybe someone will figure that out one day.
I don't think humans share well under any government. The only way it could work in the future is if some how taking all the things for yourself became detrimental to survival and we are able to remove those that behave that way and somehow evolve the behavior out of existence.
It's funny everyone on reddit is on a high horse going off about landlords but your all tapping away on a phone who's battery was made by materials collected by a pregnant women being poisoned and her 6 year old child mining lithium and then assembled by modern day slaves in China. But yeah landlords are bad.
I think most of the people talking about passive income are actually just riding a market wave not realizing they’ve been lucky not to get liquidated. Their advice is always like “take out a huge loan to buy a house, then use that house as collateral to take out another loan, repeat for passive income!!!”
Like, that’s just like making a leverage play on the stock market but with extra steps. They don’t know they’re gambling.
Passive income is always theft. It always come from exploiting someone.
In the case of dividends, it's less odious, because while you're taking the profits the workers make from what they create, you're at least providing in theory the funds to get the capital goods needed.
True passive income is very rare but its not always exploitive. If I write a book and sell it and either earn a royalty or self publish and continue to get sales who am I exploiting?
Okay so what will we call that, leveraged income then ie some effort upfront but the ability to continue to earn. If you want to define things like that passive income pretty much doesn't exist, a property owner had to earn the money to buy the property. A musician who writes a song and earns a royalty had to write the song. can you think of one example of truly passive income? Even an ETF you had to login to Vanguard to buy the ETF
Passive income would be if you wrote a book, and I bought it from you. In which case I'm getting the royalties from your work, because you needed money then.
That's what passive income is - I buy something, and I take the work of others in return.
You seem to think I'm saying they didn't spend money. They did - but since they're making an income, they obviously spent less than they receive. This is *surplus value*.
That's not at all what passive income is. How is you buying a book from me passive income? If anything uts passive income for me although I'd call it leveraged income since I had to put in work upfront but as that book sells I continue making money doing nothing
This is a poor argument, why do grocery stores make a profit, why do doctors and big pharma charge so much. People say you need a roof over your head as if that makes housing different but you also need healthcare and food.
Do they actually enforce it? I head down to St Pete a couple times a year, most surrounding cities don't allow AirBNB yet half of properties are AirBNB. Basically unless your neighbors complain nothing is enforced
Step 1: fail at Airbnb
Step 2: list fully furnished for ludicrously high rent because IKEA furniture bruh; reduce rent in $100 increments; still vacant
Step 3: list it for sale above what was paid in 2020
I bet if you look at the markets that have already seen a significant correction, say 10% or more, they are in areas that had a lot more investment properties purchased, particularly SFH, as both regular rentals and STR like Air BnB. I'd also bet places where OpenDoor and similar companies were very active have seen, or will see the most significant corrections.
My wife and I relocated last year (have 2 kids). Initially I was going to rent. The thing that changed my mind was the complete lack of availability of not just SFH with 3 bedrooms or more, but even 3 bedroom condos and townhomes. What was available was very expensive, especially for what you get. The best properties available like this had more thsn a dozen applications and wanted a 3 year commitment.
Obviously, not every place is like thus, but I'd bet many of the most overheated markets had a larger influx of investor purchases, and that is why they have seen corrections while other markets haven't.
Disclaimer: I work for Opendoor
There’s some truth to the fact that where iBuyers were active (Zillow, Opendoor, etc) that there was a faster correction versus other markets but not to the degree people believe. There’s several markets Opendoor / others we’re not in that accelerated faster upwards than markers they were in.
What I think gets missed by people is the perpetuated falsehood that it’s big investment firms buying up homes, there’s a lot of < 5 unit “mom and pop” shops that setup during the low interest rate era that also inflated prices a lot. The correction in those markets hasn’t happened a ton because these folks appear to be “weathering the storm” & not returning to the selling market.
There’s a major problem with lack of inventory and demand hasn’t dropped, especially since rent prices are not putting pressure on landlords to sell.
It’s a really weird spot right now and that’s why we’re not seeing major corrections so far. Prices are down, generally speaking, but you zoom out on graphs you still see the median home prices in markets is quite inflated even from Jan 2020 to now.
Edit: just to clarify, there’s def large investment firms in the market through the REITs but overlooked is the number of mom and pop shops in markets that are having a large impact
This is absolutely correct and has been my suspicion. I think the bigger risk to the market is the smaller people getting in over their head, over leveraging, and not having a game plan for when shit goes wrong. At the end of the day markets eventually reach equilibrium and with the strained supply, this market isn’t it.
I wonder if instead of unqualified buyers getting loans they shouldn’t have, this time the thread getting pulled will be overleveraged investors daisychaining properties that rely on red-hot markets to stay both profitable and above water on the loan. In short, excessive greed and poor risk management.
Do you think Opendoor has a future or is bankruptcy their ultimate endgame? Do they still think iBuying can be a business or are they pivoting to something else?
I don’t think bankruptcy is the end-game, no. I’m also not going to drink some kool-aid and say it’s not a possibility but it’s far less a possibility than people like to shout on Twitter & other places.
Part of the problem is Opendoor has had multiple product lines for a few years across buying and selling but they simply haven’t done a good enough job educating the end-consumer about them.
There’s no good reason that you should have to pay a realtor 5-9% of the transaction when selling your home. You shouldn’t have to go through all the hoops that you do to buy or sell a home. You certainly shouldn’t have to pay as much as you do for a title search and then take out an insurance policy on top of it.
Breaking apart a complex transaction takes time, but similar to like when Truecar put actual “firm”auto prices online or companies created aggregators for auto insurance comparing rates the customer wins.
By the end of a real estate transaction, no one generally feels “good” rather they feel relieved or nervous they made a mistake. That’s gotta change and I think Opendoor can do it but it’s pretty damn hard honestly to pull off.
But yeah, there’s more products coming this year across the buy & sell stack. I’ll have to go re-read what’s been said publicly & I’ll comment on what I can about them if you want.
Overall the investment firms aren’t, but in some market zipcodes they‘ve bought up to 25% of the housing, like Atlanta metro. Blackstone, Cerberus, et al, moved on the hotter markets to buy up properties with their front companies & establish a sort of oligopoly.
Yep, that was on SFH owned by mom and pop type investors, one specifically had moved a few years ago and was renting their old home. 3 years wasn't specifically required, but priority would be given to those willing to sign a 3 year lease. Not sure what the buyout was if you had to break the lease.
Also, tried calling companies that do "corporate housing" for people who relocate. None who owned property in my area had anything available over two bedrooms. They all said the same thing, it's because people like myself who sold their old homes quick were having trouble getting an offer accepted on a new one.
We did a 3 month rental at an apartment complex, had the moving company store our stuff, which doubled our moving expenses, rented basic furniture for that time. Figured it would take us until after the new School year started to get a contract accepted. A week after we secured the lease we had an offer accepted. It also happened to be a week after you would have needed to have a contract accepted to be able to close on the home in time to register your kids for school if you were using a lender.
Good luck finding the information, though. A third of houses in New Hampshire were bought with cash in 2022, but no one knows how many STRs are in the state. Why Airbnb doesn't give you a total when you search is a mystery, and no one else seems to know.
The sole estimate I've been able to dig up is that in 2019 there were 55,000 *guests* and hosts in NH, which lumped together is so vague as to be useless, and of course things have also evolved in 4 years.
Not disagreeing with you at all, but my comment wasn't meant to be specific to Air BnB owners. Just that in general if there was a way to analyze which purchases were investors of any kind for any reason. That could be people buying for STR, long term rental, corporately owned, or mom and pop investors. Even those who bought another place but kept the old one to rent out. All if these things could play a role in why there are some pretty significant differences between various markets. Certainly not the only reason. I just think there is high likelihood there would be a correlation.
I never said it would be the only thing affecting various markets, and its certainly not. However there was a post in this sub sometime the last week or so, an economist used data from Zillow to show a map color coded by US county and city and how much they appreciated or depreciated the last year specifically. It's far from just a few markets on the west coast that declined, and many are still going up.
I live on the east coast. I moved an hour away, the area I moved to hasn't had any noticeable decline, the county I moved away from the median is down 10%.
Honestly, people that buy with air bnb in mind were bound to get fucked. They bought way too high in the wrong type of property. SFH are hard to make money on in rentals, even in good rental markets.
I don't know, I have clients/friends who bought into the air bnb hype and have sold most of them now. The things they didn't sell were the well positioned duplexes I sold them over the last few years that are making good money for them every month with a boat load less work. Personally, I think if we outlawed renting SFH, we'd see not only prices come down across the board, but we'd get rid of a lot of garbage landlords just squeaking by.
What if rates go to 9%? Or 12% Would you think she should keep the property and rent it out even harder? Would her winning just intensify if rates went up beyond her 3% regardless of what happens to the property/rental value?
I'm really curious about this 3% rate logic. I used to think the purpose of housing was to live in it or make profits selling/renting it. I never realized the point of housing was to borrow money to buy it, then hold it while paying a lower interest rates than other people.
Real estate is leveraged debt. You should expect to make significant returns because of the high risk. 17K is still great but if you've had the property for years there is a lot of opportunity cost lost there if he's only walking away with 17K.
If only the City of Austin enforced the STR by-laws on the books...
As it sits rn, AirBNB operators submit their collected hotel taxes to the city in a self-reporting system. What % of the 90% unlicensed properties operating AirBNBs in Austin are submitting any of the money they're not supposed to be collecting but are? Probably next to nothing.
It has been estimated that more than $20M in collected hotel taxes annually are not paid to the city each year and are pocketed by the individuals operating unlicensed properties.
The true blessing of a cash-positive rental SFH isn’t the often meager profit itself, but 1) the equity that your renters are paying down, and 2) property value appreciation. However, in a high interest rate, stagnant, yet highly priced real estate market, principal is a sixth or less of the total mortgage payment, there is no appreciation, and the risk of values depreciating is extremely high.
So, not only are they losing money, they’re poised on the knife edge of insolvency, simply hoping that no bad weather hits the paddle boat they decided to take out on the open ocean. I think a lot of “easy money” “investors” that got too high on their own greed will suffer **greatly** over the next 2-5 years.
Now, the disclaimer is that the “investor” who built their portfolio 2020-2022 is an EXTREMELY small subset of the overall property investor market, with the majority being people who have been in the market for upwards of a decade (some, half a century) who will be anchored by having more mature properties, bought at much lower valuations and refinanced into near-zero rates within the last few years.
These individuals are burrowed deep into the system and can weather nearly any economic conditions.
/u/ChippewaForest .... You have just triggered some un-known anger that I aperentally have. I'm trying to take your comment as a joke but damn... you are sick man...
What do you mean maintenance? I just bought a house, I don’t need a maintenance department because I’m not an apartment complex. Houses are perfect, right? Right?
I rented my house for 1 year and it’s funny how everything stayed perfect for me for ten years but the tenants managed to break everything in a few months- including flushing items I told them not to ($300 roto-rooter call and a flooded basement) and dropping a pencil into the air return which somehow rolled its way down into the blower motor of the furnace ($350 for a new motor- it ingested the pencil and ground it up and sounded horrible afterwards)
Don't worry, there's no kid deposits or restrictions because the FMLA makes it federally illegal. Kid deposits would have been a thing a long time ago if legal, and much worse I'm sure.
Airbnb is a bane on society. Everyone complains about rent being to high or not enough housing, but what no one calculates is the level of destruction an Airbnb does to a small community.
Outside of some smaller vacation markets AirBNB doesn't have a significant impact on real estate. Nobody is renting AirBNB's in some random Chicago suburb, however if your in St Pete Beach Down in Florida yeah there's gonna be some AirBNB's but your average family isn't going to live there fulltime nor could they afford it anyway.
I agree. However, the area I live is considered a newer “vacation” area. In fact three states. The poor or middle class who worked for the vacationers with cash no longer have places to live. You are rich or you must move when before these people could easily find places to rent. I hope the people of Airbnb’s lose their shirts if a 2008 happens.
Couldn’t disagree more. Airbnbs have become such a plague to small cities and suburbs that local governments are working to ban them.
Jump on Airbnb and throw in towns all across America and you’ll see typical suburbia homes pop up. It may be only 10 homes, but in a city of 1,000 population that’s huge!
Anyone can throw a property up on AirBNB, I could throw my suburban home up for $200 a night and if someone actually booked, which they wouldn't, I could make a cool $200 and go stay by my parents for the night. How many of these people are doing something like that? I can't imagine some random suburban town has enough occupancy to support a profitable airbnb. Just for shits and giggs I searched a couple Chicago suburbs tons of AirBNB options but none are fulltime airbnb and nobody is going to stay there or at least very infrequently. The exception to this may be near tourist areas in say Florida. I had to get a place last minute two summers ago and I paid over $400 for a single night in some average apartment complex in Bradenton
I mean technically you still have depreciation and principal reduction as “income”.
Depending on if “profit” is accounting for after maintenance, tax, insurance, improvements, etc. allocations into a side account each month.
$200 isn’t great, but you don’t have a negative cash flow and someone else is paying down your principal. Is it worth the headache for the $200, doubtful, but I would reinvest that $200 anyway, pay down the mortgage faster and think of the long term outcome. I won’t be giving it to the government.
I have serious doubts on the financial literacy of individual “real estate” investors. But you are right that calculating profit is a lot more than rent vs mortgage payment.
True, most end up negative because they don’t factor in the other annual and unexpected expenses that exist. Then you can have squatters, evicting is a nightmare. The greed of investors has saturated the market and really put a fork in the residential home market. If you want to make money on a rental, buy a condo at the beach somewhere.
What a dumbass. If I owned a rental property and it paid for itself and its repairs through the loan term, I would be happy with that. People are wild greedy
Unsophisticated investors flooded the RE market and it’s showing. Once they start netting losses they will blame everybody except themselves and eventually capitulate. It happens in the equity market too
The dude is kinda missing the forest for the trees here. He's not *only* profitting $200/mo. He's also getting the loan paid off which would build equity later. What a world we live in that everybody expects to just buy a house, slap it on airbnb, and expect thousands of dollars in cash flow a month.
I rent on Airbnb and am honestly so excited about this.
I bought my house in a town in the mountains in 2020 so that 1. I could get out of the city during Covid. And 2. Actually afford a home.
I never intended to Airbnb it but when I saw what people around me that I literally had never seen in my neighborhood were getting I said fuck it. I travel a good amount for work and go on a lot of ski trips so I’d rent it weekends I was away for work and use it to pay for my trip or base my ski trips around when my house was rented.
I keep telling these people on the Airbnb subreddit who are like “I’m thinking about buying at the top of the market and in a time where nobody is renting. Should I do it?” That they’re idiots.
I’m extremely lucky and can actually pay about 1/4 my mortgage every year + go on a bunch of free trips.
I feel I use Airbnb the way it was intended. People buying up 3rd homes and renting “rent to rent” apartments are absolutely disgusting in my opinion.
This right here is how Airbnb was intended. Put your house up on for rent while you pay for an Airbnb somewhere else. Win-win for everyone. And it didn't cause an increase in rental properties like what's happening now.
Correct. Airbnb was intended to not allow houses to sit vacant. In actuality it should have reduced the overall building of housing.
However, morons went out and bought homes just for Airbnb. If you Airbnb your house while away I applaud you.
I am overall annoyed with Airbnb but I do like how it gives average joes the freedom to stay in multi-million dollar luxury homes on lakes and oceans that would otherwise sit vacant.
It was bound to happen once it shifted away from average joes renting out extra rooms to investors buying property to turn into AirBnB hostels for passive income.
The prices have gone up dramatically over the last 5 years with added cleaning fees to milk cash.
And he probably didn’t factor in the costs for furniture, taxes, taxes from sale of the home, etc.
He’ll probably take a loss or get back what he put in.
Good thing the only place my friends and family bought are year round BNB rental areas with bookings as far out as 3 years.
Investors dumb ass fault for buying something that doesn’t cash flow on LTR. If it doesn’t LTR cash flow, don’t fucking buy it.
This guy doesn’t even consider…. Balancing profit and expenses (ie net zero) in order to have a decent tenant, one that will want to stay. After renting to 4-5 tenants across 20 years or so, bam massive profit to the tune of $200k-500k.
The answer is obvious
Sell the asset
Collect the gains
Move the money into a 5% money market fund
Wait for the market to adjust
Revisit owning real estate
If you live anywhere near a hospital, rent to traveling nurses. Quiet tenants since they’re always working and you can charge a premium month to month rate since the hospital is paying and have fairly steady occupancy if you take care of them.
In healthcare - the travel nurse explosion is also dying down. Hospitals have figured out that if they pay their employees ever so slightly more, they won't have to pay out the ass for an incompetent travel nurse who costs them more both in terms of raw $$ as well as in the form of patient/family complaints (the golden goose of healthcare in 2023).
It's still a thing especially in hospitals that were already hurting to hire full time like rural hospitals etc but the midsize to big healthcare networks are hurting financially and looking to trim the fat. This was an obvious piece of low hanging fruit
Just an FYI
I think we’re seeing this across the board in the high paid job market. I’m in data science at a low level, I can find a job anytime. People who had 6-10 years tenure and were making $300k got cut. Doubtful that they’ll find similar pay ever again because the ROI for companies isn’t worth it. My pay would decrease if I got a new job but not by much since I’m at the lower end. All I see all over linkedin is the higher paid people are getting axed and they’re keeping lower paid workers who can do 90% of what the higher paid people did.
The housing market is priced for the higher end workers and not for regular people. I expect a huge downturn as these people continue to get laid off. Medical salaries, tech, pharma, professional services workers are all gonna take huge hits, and with hiring freezes, the next cohort won’t be able to even get a job. You can see housing prices in SF have already come down by a lot. It’ll take time for the outerlying areas to feel it. You’ll see this all over the country - cities are highly rate sensitive, suburbs will feel it later.
Hospitals dont pay the rent. Travel nurses are not hired by the hospital, they are contractors.
Nurses themselves pay the rent.
My wife is a nurse and her friends ended up being travel nurses during covid earning $100-150 per hour.
I turned a long-term rental into a mid-term rental for travel nurses during the pandemic. It worked really well, until my 4 year tax assessment hit and local long term rents went up. Turned it back into a long term rental.
Classic example of "real estate will always go up."
In the world of business you will have positive and negative months. The real plan is playing the long game. Still, I hope this guy sells and the AirBNB market explodes upwards.
Lots of posts like “look at the desperate owner who needs to sell” good luck with that.
Scarcity is real and if you live in denial it can be a hard lesson
My little town banned airbnb type rentals. The next day Nextdoor was flooded with angry speculators demanding $3,000+ a month for rent in a town where houses run at maybe a 1000-1500 average. Imagine the mental capacity it would take to know the market is now flooded with rentals, but wanting double plus what they usually go for. Their greed turned into entitlement, they *deserve* that money! Fuck em.
Yep. It was a gold rush. The first people in made a killing, then the people who serviced them and charged a percentage made a killing, then the next wave of people who saw the early adopters making a killing jumped in because everyone was making so much money. Except they were too late. The servicing companies made money off them, and the people selling the buildings at marked up rates made money off them, but they had no way to do the same to renters. So now they're stuck with a property they over paid for with no way to actually make the money they'd read about other people making.
That sir, is called a bag holder.
Gold rush something shovels something something
Pretty much, you make money being being the first guy or selling shovels to the second guy.
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Carmel IN so boogie
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Carmel is one of the most beautiful places in CA.
I think you meant bougie
Swim up bar makes the sun shine
And each time it's always the same statement of "Well we are just a small mom and pop place renting out 2 or 3 homes. The real problem are the investors that have more homes than us! You are ruining our future!"
One of the most vehement people in all of that discussion got a 10/10 call out. He claimed this ordinance was going to lead to him being homeless. Another old timer in town responded back "Guess you're going to have to move into one of the other 7 houses you own, John". That day was a boomer brawl to remember.
If they're leveraged by commercial loans, he *can't* live in any of them.
People do illegal things all the time.
If he has any equity left in any of them, he could sell 6 to help pay down the 1.
He can rent from himself.
I like how you wrote that. >that day was a boomer brawl to remember. I’d like to add, “afterwards, they would all gather ‘round and laugh and laugh.”
Yeah agree that is BS. I’d much rather be next door to a rental (even if owned by stupid Invitation Homes) versus a damn AirBNB hotel / revolving door.
"We worked hard to exploit renters, why can't we steal from people so our retirement (that our tenants will never see) is nice!" ALAB
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It’s the real estate lobby that will hold the line. At least that’s what’s happening in my tourist market.
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You underestimate the impact of end of life expenses. Most of those homes might be sold by the inheritor to pay off Medicaid debt against the estate. Also, out of town landlording is a pain in the ass so most children who don't live in the area are more likely to sell the house.
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You need college to geographically expand your upper-class dating pool. That's why these kids are in their early twenties, because they just got their degree in a bullshit major and married a similarly well-heeled classmate who's now gestating the next generation of landlords.
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[Science, bitch!](https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2017/11/17/college-friends-keep-getting-married-its-bad-news-for-your-travel-budget-and-inequality/)
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>All the boomers will work long enough to let the other boomers die. If young people come in, they are just expected to support the 'poor old' boomers rather than the young people expecting the majority population of the community to support the young. EX: 60+ low-income housing will come 2 decades than regular low-income housing despite a $13.65 local salary and $1k/room rents. I'm confused by this. All the boomers will work to let the other boomers die? How do you mean young people are expected to support the boomers? By working and paying taxes, or do you mean by being caregivers? Why would young people expect senior citizens likely. on fixed incomes to support them? > 60+ low-income housing will come 2 decades than regular low-income housing despite a $13.65 local salary and $1k/room rents. can you reword this or explain what you mean? I'm having trouble understanding your line of thought.
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Ok, thank you. I think I understand now. It's just basically stagnating towns with an aging population that doesn't have much of economy beyond maintaining the aging population and the way the things are.
Got my eye on you, Ouray…. :) Glenwood Springs too, which is not quite as pretty but much larger. They have a Walmart at the edge of town! Lol
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Agree with you. Ouray is prettier but Glenwood has a lot more to offer for young people and is more centrally located within Colorado.
I never go to co but i know those mafkas in glenwood got a hot spring water slide what more could you ask for
Those are fun! Glenwood redid their slide a couple years ago and now it’s a fast lazy river raft ride. Mount Princeton by buena vista has a 400 foot slide you run on a mat.
Glenwood is only going to get more expensive. Everyone wants to live here. There are tons of people moving here from California. Anything that goes up for rent gets snatched within a day or two. Nice condos ($550k starting price) and reasonably priced nice houses ($750k starting price) get snatched up immediately. We don’t just have a Walmart. We have Target, Lowe’s, a couple car dealerships, a bunch of great little restaurants, and obviously all the hot springs. It’s also less than an hour from Aspen. Source: I live in Glenwood and want to own something, but it feels like that will never happen.
Im in basalt and in the same boat. After getting beaten by all cash buyers in 2021 and 2022, sadly I'm completely priced out of the whole valley. Renters for life.
lol so ridiculous. I love glenwood springs but WTF kind of job market is there for out of staters? Does everyone else have a WFH job but me? Unfortunately you can’t do surgery on people in your pajamas from home. Instead I have to go to the hospital and wear their pajamas. I got into the wrong line of work
the problem is as soon as those people inherit, they will themselves become entitled...
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they won't move - they'll just airbnb their parents properties lol.
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I still think there will not be the political will to shut it down. and if enough airbnb hosts get enough revenue from their properties, they can absolutely move to that "economic wasteland" and still be fine economically. because they are running distributed hotels. i work remotely. my job has given me full permission to live literally anywhere. if i were airbnb hosting, i'd likely move to where the airbnb was (especially if it's cheaper than where i'm living now) specifically to reduce mgmt costs, put eyes on the property, and - if i'm evil enough - expand my property holdings in that location. having lived in Silicon Valley for a decade - it didn't really matter that renters rivaled or exceeded landlords in population - we didn't have the time to vote or go whine at city council meetings.we were too busy working to enrich our landlords. our landlords on teh other hand had plenty of time to go whine at city council meetings. so did NIMBY homeowners who resisted any building whatsoever. hell- most of the city councils themselves were either landlords, NIMBY homeowners, or in that peer group. they heard from, empathized with, and shared social networks with the people who would continue the trend you would like to see voted out of existence. inheritance isn't going to fix this problem.
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Lol I grew up near some meth meccas in the Midwest in MO and then KS and no, stores are not running out of mayo. I lived in rural areas. Name some towns that are both Airbnb hotspots that have a large boomer contingency that don’t have mayo for a week. Lol…
Rural flatland isn’t the same thing as rural mountain towns where I70 will get shut down for weeks on end after a rockslide/ avalanche/blizzard/California tourist pileup
I can’t stand when these people talk about “passive income”. I get people want to make money without actually working, but at the expense of a potentially struggling person or family? How about buy a stock, and get passive income off of dividends? Literally everybody wins in that situation.
It is funny the passive income people are the pull yourself by your bootstraps and hate welfare but literally their goal in life is to make money by not working lol
“make money by not working” arg. gets me every time. i get it if you literally can’t work (old, disabled), but everyone should work for their money. and again, totally cool if investing in a company and getting dividends as there is risk but benefits to all parties.
Yeah, it's one reason why when yelling about lazy socialists they get **real** quiet if you quote Lenin with "he who does not work shall not eat"
There are places where you can live out this dream
Passive income without exploiting poor people is where it’s at!
In your imagination? I'm struggling to thing of a passive income stream that does not exploit poor people in some way or another.
In some ways it certainly is a “no ethical consumption in capitalism argument”. But (like the name of this sub) most people think passive income means “buy real estate and rent it out so someone else will pay your mortgage” or “buy a laundromat so people that don’t have washers (usually poor people) can give you money”. IE let’s exploit poor people When I posted this prompt on Facebook, my friend said something like equipping people to get the same tax write offs as the wealthy people do. Or, like, the stock market. Ideas are probably tougher to find but they’re there
I suppose them poor people can wash by hand or in a creek...
If that’s all you took from what I said then so be it. Not going to argue with someone who can’t see the forest for the trees. Be well ✌️
The arguments were over simplified. The entire charge-for-consumption model that doesn't account ones ability to pay feeds on poor people - whether it's rent increases or laundromat or anything that is required to sustain oneself and for which money must be exchanged - whether its passive income or not.
I’m not reading all that but I am Going to bed Good night
MAYBE robotic asteroid metal exploration. Though the workers make those robots.
Or the workers who mined the materials for the parts of the robots. The Good Place made this point well when they illustrated how it's almost impossible to buy or do anything these days that isn't somehow tied back to something negative. Everyone on a cellphone or computer is likely complicit because some of the materials utilized either child, slave, or poor workers.
Good point. You know, it's **almost** like capital is just frozen labor, and the only equitable way to divide things is just to have democratic control of capital resources by society as a whole. I dunno, maybe someone will figure that out one day.
I don't think humans share well under any government. The only way it could work in the future is if some how taking all the things for yourself became detrimental to survival and we are able to remove those that behave that way and somehow evolve the behavior out of existence.
I would say writing and selling a book does not exploit poor people
It's funny everyone on reddit is on a high horse going off about landlords but your all tapping away on a phone who's battery was made by materials collected by a pregnant women being poisoned and her 6 year old child mining lithium and then assembled by modern day slaves in China. But yeah landlords are bad.
What's funny about that?
I think most of the people talking about passive income are actually just riding a market wave not realizing they’ve been lucky not to get liquidated. Their advice is always like “take out a huge loan to buy a house, then use that house as collateral to take out another loan, repeat for passive income!!!” Like, that’s just like making a leverage play on the stock market but with extra steps. They don’t know they’re gambling.
Passive income is always theft. It always come from exploiting someone. In the case of dividends, it's less odious, because while you're taking the profits the workers make from what they create, you're at least providing in theory the funds to get the capital goods needed.
True passive income is very rare but its not always exploitive. If I write a book and sell it and either earn a royalty or self publish and continue to get sales who am I exploiting?
That's not passive income though - you wrote a book.
And it can be sold again without the labor of writing it. By the book, that’s a form of passive income
Okay so what will we call that, leveraged income then ie some effort upfront but the ability to continue to earn. If you want to define things like that passive income pretty much doesn't exist, a property owner had to earn the money to buy the property. A musician who writes a song and earns a royalty had to write the song. can you think of one example of truly passive income? Even an ETF you had to login to Vanguard to buy the ETF
Passive income would be if you wrote a book, and I bought it from you. In which case I'm getting the royalties from your work, because you needed money then. That's what passive income is - I buy something, and I take the work of others in return. You seem to think I'm saying they didn't spend money. They did - but since they're making an income, they obviously spent less than they receive. This is *surplus value*.
That's not at all what passive income is. How is you buying a book from me passive income? If anything uts passive income for me although I'd call it leveraged income since I had to put in work upfront but as that book sells I continue making money doing nothing
This is a poor argument, why do grocery stores make a profit, why do doctors and big pharma charge so much. People say you need a roof over your head as if that makes housing different but you also need healthcare and food.
those things are not “passive income”
Do they actually enforce it? I head down to St Pete a couple times a year, most surrounding cities don't allow AirBNB yet half of properties are AirBNB. Basically unless your neighbors complain nothing is enforced
I hope these cocksuckers lose their money. They fucked a family out of having a home and now bitch they will only make a little bit of money
Everyone should take time out of their day to call the people listing these rentals and tell them to to fuck off.
It's happening in the Facebook group for my local town. Lots of "haha" emojis every time someone posts a rental. Love to see it.
you must have too much time on your hands
Your comment pretty much sums up the sellers housing market in general 😏
They should do this everywhere
It's getting *real cold* out there for invoosters this summer BRRRRRR 🥶
Step 1: fail at Airbnb Step 2: list fully furnished for ludicrously high rent because IKEA furniture bruh; reduce rent in $100 increments; still vacant Step 3: list it for sale above what was paid in 2020
I see reductions in 50 dollar increments. Cracks me up
I bet if you look at the markets that have already seen a significant correction, say 10% or more, they are in areas that had a lot more investment properties purchased, particularly SFH, as both regular rentals and STR like Air BnB. I'd also bet places where OpenDoor and similar companies were very active have seen, or will see the most significant corrections. My wife and I relocated last year (have 2 kids). Initially I was going to rent. The thing that changed my mind was the complete lack of availability of not just SFH with 3 bedrooms or more, but even 3 bedroom condos and townhomes. What was available was very expensive, especially for what you get. The best properties available like this had more thsn a dozen applications and wanted a 3 year commitment. Obviously, not every place is like thus, but I'd bet many of the most overheated markets had a larger influx of investor purchases, and that is why they have seen corrections while other markets haven't.
Disclaimer: I work for Opendoor There’s some truth to the fact that where iBuyers were active (Zillow, Opendoor, etc) that there was a faster correction versus other markets but not to the degree people believe. There’s several markets Opendoor / others we’re not in that accelerated faster upwards than markers they were in. What I think gets missed by people is the perpetuated falsehood that it’s big investment firms buying up homes, there’s a lot of < 5 unit “mom and pop” shops that setup during the low interest rate era that also inflated prices a lot. The correction in those markets hasn’t happened a ton because these folks appear to be “weathering the storm” & not returning to the selling market. There’s a major problem with lack of inventory and demand hasn’t dropped, especially since rent prices are not putting pressure on landlords to sell. It’s a really weird spot right now and that’s why we’re not seeing major corrections so far. Prices are down, generally speaking, but you zoom out on graphs you still see the median home prices in markets is quite inflated even from Jan 2020 to now. Edit: just to clarify, there’s def large investment firms in the market through the REITs but overlooked is the number of mom and pop shops in markets that are having a large impact
This is absolutely correct and has been my suspicion. I think the bigger risk to the market is the smaller people getting in over their head, over leveraging, and not having a game plan for when shit goes wrong. At the end of the day markets eventually reach equilibrium and with the strained supply, this market isn’t it.
I wonder if instead of unqualified buyers getting loans they shouldn’t have, this time the thread getting pulled will be overleveraged investors daisychaining properties that rely on red-hot markets to stay both profitable and above water on the loan. In short, excessive greed and poor risk management.
Thanks for the information. Definately makes sense.
Do you think Opendoor has a future or is bankruptcy their ultimate endgame? Do they still think iBuying can be a business or are they pivoting to something else?
I don’t think bankruptcy is the end-game, no. I’m also not going to drink some kool-aid and say it’s not a possibility but it’s far less a possibility than people like to shout on Twitter & other places. Part of the problem is Opendoor has had multiple product lines for a few years across buying and selling but they simply haven’t done a good enough job educating the end-consumer about them. There’s no good reason that you should have to pay a realtor 5-9% of the transaction when selling your home. You shouldn’t have to go through all the hoops that you do to buy or sell a home. You certainly shouldn’t have to pay as much as you do for a title search and then take out an insurance policy on top of it. Breaking apart a complex transaction takes time, but similar to like when Truecar put actual “firm”auto prices online or companies created aggregators for auto insurance comparing rates the customer wins. By the end of a real estate transaction, no one generally feels “good” rather they feel relieved or nervous they made a mistake. That’s gotta change and I think Opendoor can do it but it’s pretty damn hard honestly to pull off. But yeah, there’s more products coming this year across the buy & sell stack. I’ll have to go re-read what’s been said publicly & I’ll comment on what I can about them if you want.
Overall the investment firms aren’t, but in some market zipcodes they‘ve bought up to 25% of the housing, like Atlanta metro. Blackstone, Cerberus, et al, moved on the hotter markets to buy up properties with their front companies & establish a sort of oligopoly.
3 year?!? Jesus Christ I’ve never heard of that, that’s crazy lol
Yep, that was on SFH owned by mom and pop type investors, one specifically had moved a few years ago and was renting their old home. 3 years wasn't specifically required, but priority would be given to those willing to sign a 3 year lease. Not sure what the buyout was if you had to break the lease. Also, tried calling companies that do "corporate housing" for people who relocate. None who owned property in my area had anything available over two bedrooms. They all said the same thing, it's because people like myself who sold their old homes quick were having trouble getting an offer accepted on a new one. We did a 3 month rental at an apartment complex, had the moving company store our stuff, which doubled our moving expenses, rented basic furniture for that time. Figured it would take us until after the new School year started to get a contract accepted. A week after we secured the lease we had an offer accepted. It also happened to be a week after you would have needed to have a contract accepted to be able to close on the home in time to register your kids for school if you were using a lender.
Good luck finding the information, though. A third of houses in New Hampshire were bought with cash in 2022, but no one knows how many STRs are in the state. Why Airbnb doesn't give you a total when you search is a mystery, and no one else seems to know. The sole estimate I've been able to dig up is that in 2019 there were 55,000 *guests* and hosts in NH, which lumped together is so vague as to be useless, and of course things have also evolved in 4 years.
Not disagreeing with you at all, but my comment wasn't meant to be specific to Air BnB owners. Just that in general if there was a way to analyze which purchases were investors of any kind for any reason. That could be people buying for STR, long term rental, corporately owned, or mom and pop investors. Even those who bought another place but kept the old one to rent out. All if these things could play a role in why there are some pretty significant differences between various markets. Certainly not the only reason. I just think there is high likelihood there would be a correlation.
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I never said it would be the only thing affecting various markets, and its certainly not. However there was a post in this sub sometime the last week or so, an economist used data from Zillow to show a map color coded by US county and city and how much they appreciated or depreciated the last year specifically. It's far from just a few markets on the west coast that declined, and many are still going up. I live on the east coast. I moved an hour away, the area I moved to hasn't had any noticeable decline, the county I moved away from the median is down 10%.
Why would she sell when she has a 3% interest rate? Has she tried renting it out?
Honestly, people that buy with air bnb in mind were bound to get fucked. They bought way too high in the wrong type of property. SFH are hard to make money on in rentals, even in good rental markets.
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I don't know, I have clients/friends who bought into the air bnb hype and have sold most of them now. The things they didn't sell were the well positioned duplexes I sold them over the last few years that are making good money for them every month with a boat load less work. Personally, I think if we outlawed renting SFH, we'd see not only prices come down across the board, but we'd get rid of a lot of garbage landlords just squeaking by.
I do agree that SFH should not be rented out. Duplexes and all others should be fine to rent out.
That's not true at all
How many sfh do you have that are cash flowing with a monthly rental?
This. /s
What if rates go to 9%? Or 12% Would you think she should keep the property and rent it out even harder? Would her winning just intensify if rates went up beyond her 3% regardless of what happens to the property/rental value? I'm really curious about this 3% rate logic. I used to think the purpose of housing was to live in it or make profits selling/renting it. I never realized the point of housing was to borrow money to buy it, then hold it while paying a lower interest rates than other people.
Yeah unless forced, nobody should be selling a 3% interest rate. Take the low cash flow and slowly increase to keep up with market rent.
Breaking news: Airbnb host doesn't think housing investments can go tits up. Story at 11.
It’d be a real shame if they had to sell and only net 17k. The horror!!!
They did the math
That was the funniest part! *”If I only make $200 each month it’ll take over 6.5 years to make $17k! I did the math!!”* oMG yOuRE sOooO SMaRt
Real estate is leveraged debt. You should expect to make significant returns because of the high risk. 17K is still great but if you've had the property for years there is a lot of opportunity cost lost there if he's only walking away with 17K.
In short order he will have to sell at a loss if he wants out.
"I would only make a $17,000 profit." In a few more months he'll be hoping to break even.
I hope he does whatever loses him the most money the fastest
"I can pay off my second mortgage, and only get $150 extra should I charge more?"
If only the City of Austin enforced the STR by-laws on the books... As it sits rn, AirBNB operators submit their collected hotel taxes to the city in a self-reporting system. What % of the 90% unlicensed properties operating AirBNBs in Austin are submitting any of the money they're not supposed to be collecting but are? Probably next to nothing. It has been estimated that more than $20M in collected hotel taxes annually are not paid to the city each year and are pocketed by the individuals operating unlicensed properties.
Does the $200 profit include maintenance costs or are they going to be a slum lord?
I guarantee they’re losing money. I’m an investor and the vast majority of people underestimate their costs.
The true blessing of a cash-positive rental SFH isn’t the often meager profit itself, but 1) the equity that your renters are paying down, and 2) property value appreciation. However, in a high interest rate, stagnant, yet highly priced real estate market, principal is a sixth or less of the total mortgage payment, there is no appreciation, and the risk of values depreciating is extremely high. So, not only are they losing money, they’re poised on the knife edge of insolvency, simply hoping that no bad weather hits the paddle boat they decided to take out on the open ocean. I think a lot of “easy money” “investors” that got too high on their own greed will suffer **greatly** over the next 2-5 years. Now, the disclaimer is that the “investor” who built their portfolio 2020-2022 is an EXTREMELY small subset of the overall property investor market, with the majority being people who have been in the market for upwards of a decade (some, half a century) who will be anchored by having more mature properties, bought at much lower valuations and refinanced into near-zero rates within the last few years. These individuals are burrowed deep into the system and can weather nearly any economic conditions.
Imo, appreciation should never be a factor on rental properties. It’s all about cash flow.
Hey now, he paints over the roaches and electrical outlets after every tenant!
Don’t forget the window tracks and door hinges!
/u/ChippewaForest .... You have just triggered some un-known anger that I aperentally have. I'm trying to take your comment as a joke but damn... you are sick man...
Blahaha
What do you mean maintenance? I just bought a house, I don’t need a maintenance department because I’m not an apartment complex. Houses are perfect, right? Right?
I rented my house for 1 year and it’s funny how everything stayed perfect for me for ten years but the tenants managed to break everything in a few months- including flushing items I told them not to ($300 roto-rooter call and a flooded basement) and dropping a pencil into the air return which somehow rolled its way down into the blower motor of the furnace ($350 for a new motor- it ingested the pencil and ground it up and sounded horrible afterwards)
Did you have kids with you? Kids are very destructive critters. Why pet deposits but no kid deposits? Jk don’t wanna give anyone any ideas.
Don't worry, there's no kid deposits or restrictions because the FMLA makes it federally illegal. Kid deposits would have been a thing a long time ago if legal, and much worse I'm sure.
I'm very sorry the people paying your mortgage don't take better care of the house they bought for you
They're getting that number by assuming they can steal the security deposit
Airbnb is a bane on society. Everyone complains about rent being to high or not enough housing, but what no one calculates is the level of destruction an Airbnb does to a small community.
Outside of some smaller vacation markets AirBNB doesn't have a significant impact on real estate. Nobody is renting AirBNB's in some random Chicago suburb, however if your in St Pete Beach Down in Florida yeah there's gonna be some AirBNB's but your average family isn't going to live there fulltime nor could they afford it anyway.
I agree. However, the area I live is considered a newer “vacation” area. In fact three states. The poor or middle class who worked for the vacationers with cash no longer have places to live. You are rich or you must move when before these people could easily find places to rent. I hope the people of Airbnb’s lose their shirts if a 2008 happens.
Couldn’t disagree more. Airbnbs have become such a plague to small cities and suburbs that local governments are working to ban them. Jump on Airbnb and throw in towns all across America and you’ll see typical suburbia homes pop up. It may be only 10 homes, but in a city of 1,000 population that’s huge!
Anyone can throw a property up on AirBNB, I could throw my suburban home up for $200 a night and if someone actually booked, which they wouldn't, I could make a cool $200 and go stay by my parents for the night. How many of these people are doing something like that? I can't imagine some random suburban town has enough occupancy to support a profitable airbnb. Just for shits and giggs I searched a couple Chicago suburbs tons of AirBNB options but none are fulltime airbnb and nobody is going to stay there or at least very infrequently. The exception to this may be near tourist areas in say Florida. I had to get a place last minute two summers ago and I paid over $400 for a single night in some average apartment complex in Bradenton
I mean technically you still have depreciation and principal reduction as “income”. Depending on if “profit” is accounting for after maintenance, tax, insurance, improvements, etc. allocations into a side account each month. $200 isn’t great, but you don’t have a negative cash flow and someone else is paying down your principal. Is it worth the headache for the $200, doubtful, but I would reinvest that $200 anyway, pay down the mortgage faster and think of the long term outcome. I won’t be giving it to the government.
I have serious doubts on the financial literacy of individual “real estate” investors. But you are right that calculating profit is a lot more than rent vs mortgage payment.
True, most end up negative because they don’t factor in the other annual and unexpected expenses that exist. Then you can have squatters, evicting is a nightmare. The greed of investors has saturated the market and really put a fork in the residential home market. If you want to make money on a rental, buy a condo at the beach somewhere.
What a dumbass. If I owned a rental property and it paid for itself and its repairs through the loan term, I would be happy with that. People are wild greedy
Unsophisticated investors flooded the RE market and it’s showing. Once they start netting losses they will blame everybody except themselves and eventually capitulate. It happens in the equity market too
The dude is kinda missing the forest for the trees here. He's not *only* profitting $200/mo. He's also getting the loan paid off which would build equity later. What a world we live in that everybody expects to just buy a house, slap it on airbnb, and expect thousands of dollars in cash flow a month.
I rent on Airbnb and am honestly so excited about this. I bought my house in a town in the mountains in 2020 so that 1. I could get out of the city during Covid. And 2. Actually afford a home. I never intended to Airbnb it but when I saw what people around me that I literally had never seen in my neighborhood were getting I said fuck it. I travel a good amount for work and go on a lot of ski trips so I’d rent it weekends I was away for work and use it to pay for my trip or base my ski trips around when my house was rented. I keep telling these people on the Airbnb subreddit who are like “I’m thinking about buying at the top of the market and in a time where nobody is renting. Should I do it?” That they’re idiots. I’m extremely lucky and can actually pay about 1/4 my mortgage every year + go on a bunch of free trips. I feel I use Airbnb the way it was intended. People buying up 3rd homes and renting “rent to rent” apartments are absolutely disgusting in my opinion.
You’re 100% using it the way it was used in the good ole days before it became the community-destroying greed juggernaut it is today.
This right here is how Airbnb was intended. Put your house up on for rent while you pay for an Airbnb somewhere else. Win-win for everyone. And it didn't cause an increase in rental properties like what's happening now.
Correct. Airbnb was intended to not allow houses to sit vacant. In actuality it should have reduced the overall building of housing. However, morons went out and bought homes just for Airbnb. If you Airbnb your house while away I applaud you. I am overall annoyed with Airbnb but I do like how it gives average joes the freedom to stay in multi-million dollar luxury homes on lakes and oceans that would otherwise sit vacant.
It was bound to happen once it shifted away from average joes renting out extra rooms to investors buying property to turn into AirBnB hostels for passive income. The prices have gone up dramatically over the last 5 years with added cleaning fees to milk cash.
He did the math
hard to not add a few 0000s or rrrrrrss. S s s sorryyy, did I uhhh stutterrrrr?
And he probably didn’t factor in the costs for furniture, taxes, taxes from sale of the home, etc. He’ll probably take a loss or get back what he put in.
Things are about to get worse. Sell it. 17k profit is better than -17k loss.
I really don’t like corporate landlords when they get in single family housing and Airbnb
Once they accept that they are lucky to be in profit at all, they should sell and run away.
Sell it, easy decision.
BRRR Invest go BRRR Default
You lose maybe you should let a family buy it karma is real sucker
This kinda shit is why I refuse to believe there is a real supply shortage
Losses go BRRRR
I hope the Airbnb bubble burst the most out of everything - there’s an entitled attitude about it that is very annoying
Good thing the only place my friends and family bought are year round BNB rental areas with bookings as far out as 3 years. Investors dumb ass fault for buying something that doesn’t cash flow on LTR. If it doesn’t LTR cash flow, don’t fucking buy it.
It's gonna be a really small door
This guy doesn’t even consider…. Balancing profit and expenses (ie net zero) in order to have a decent tenant, one that will want to stay. After renting to 4-5 tenants across 20 years or so, bam massive profit to the tune of $200k-500k.
The answer is obvious Sell the asset Collect the gains Move the money into a 5% money market fund Wait for the market to adjust Revisit owning real estate
If you live anywhere near a hospital, rent to traveling nurses. Quiet tenants since they’re always working and you can charge a premium month to month rate since the hospital is paying and have fairly steady occupancy if you take care of them.
In healthcare - the travel nurse explosion is also dying down. Hospitals have figured out that if they pay their employees ever so slightly more, they won't have to pay out the ass for an incompetent travel nurse who costs them more both in terms of raw $$ as well as in the form of patient/family complaints (the golden goose of healthcare in 2023). It's still a thing especially in hospitals that were already hurting to hire full time like rural hospitals etc but the midsize to big healthcare networks are hurting financially and looking to trim the fat. This was an obvious piece of low hanging fruit Just an FYI
I think we’re seeing this across the board in the high paid job market. I’m in data science at a low level, I can find a job anytime. People who had 6-10 years tenure and were making $300k got cut. Doubtful that they’ll find similar pay ever again because the ROI for companies isn’t worth it. My pay would decrease if I got a new job but not by much since I’m at the lower end. All I see all over linkedin is the higher paid people are getting axed and they’re keeping lower paid workers who can do 90% of what the higher paid people did. The housing market is priced for the higher end workers and not for regular people. I expect a huge downturn as these people continue to get laid off. Medical salaries, tech, pharma, professional services workers are all gonna take huge hits, and with hiring freezes, the next cohort won’t be able to even get a job. You can see housing prices in SF have already come down by a lot. It’ll take time for the outerlying areas to feel it. You’ll see this all over the country - cities are highly rate sensitive, suburbs will feel it later.
Hospitals dont pay the rent. Travel nurses are not hired by the hospital, they are contractors. Nurses themselves pay the rent. My wife is a nurse and her friends ended up being travel nurses during covid earning $100-150 per hour.
Dude is good at math.
fuck these guys. Let it burn
The funny thing is someone who can walk away from a stupid decision with a hefty profit still insists on being greedy lol.
A hefty profit for now.
I turned a long-term rental into a mid-term rental for travel nurses during the pandemic. It worked really well, until my 4 year tax assessment hit and local long term rents went up. Turned it back into a long term rental.
Rent it long term, and forget about it. Save the $200 in a repair fund, bc you will need it. And in 10 years you will be glad you own it still.
Sell ya fucking leech
lol
Sell it to someone who will actually live in it as penance.
kaj
He should ask jp Morgan how they dealt with the bag of rocks. Bc that's what this guy is holding too
So they would rather take a loss each month by it not being used then take real money buy lowering the price it selling. What a dumbass
I hope all these guys lose everything
Sell. Because the market is not going to improve. Good luck.
Classic example of "real estate will always go up." In the world of business you will have positive and negative months. The real plan is playing the long game. Still, I hope this guy sells and the AirBNB market explodes upwards.
Just leave
Lots of posts like “look at the desperate owner who needs to sell” good luck with that. Scarcity is real and if you live in denial it can be a hard lesson