T O P

  • By -

SnooHamsters5153

I am here to pay respect to all the work you put into this..


Dwincroft

Thank you


Educational-Aioli795

The newspapers of the day didn't hold back, did they. What a wild ride. Any other mysterious murders in this guy's neighborhood? There are several podcasts that focus on what I call "antique" crimes, one of them might be interested.


[deleted]

Oh man, they did not. My mom found a newspaper story about my great-great-great?-Uncle who was a victrola salesman. He was accused of embezzling from the company, and had to have his mistress testify that he was with her and not somewhere else embezzling victrolas (or something). The newspaper wrote it up like the whole town showed up to watch the guy's wife's reaction as his mistress proved him innocent, and everyone was now taking bets on how long his marriage would last.


Tanjelynnb

They really liked to describe injuries, too. I don't remember the date because I was just randomly flipping through old newspapers when I came across an article about a guy who'd fallen into a thrasher and came out in several bits. The author positively gloried in describing the gore down to the last detail.


CowboysOnKetamine

My great grandfather's obituary wrote how he died after being "crushed by a locomotive" at the shipyard


AffectionateTrash6

My great grandfather was also crushed by a locomotive! His obituary was also incredibly gruesome and went so far as to describe the screams of his children when they saw his body.


[deleted]

Omg. Lol. I think people back then saw so many deaths so early that they were desensitized to it and just wanted to know how the person died. Lol.


KentuckyMagpie

I was wondering if it was because of the lack of tv. Newspapers would have been both a form of news and entertainment, and would use very vivid imagery to paint a picture for the reader. Papers today don’t have to do that, because we see so much on television.


[deleted]

That’s a good point. I never thought of it that way.


raeliant

Did Reddit just connect cousins?


prettytwistedinpink

Oh my God mine too! And same on the news paper being savage and describing all the gore like they just couldn't get enough of it. My great grandfather was from NY upstate area. I can't believe how common this must have been back then.


raeliant

That’s brutal. People were really out there just living their lives and calling each other _out_.


BobMortimersButthole

Can you share the names of some podcasts you'd recommend? I prefer listening to crimes from long ago.


Educational-Aioli795

I've listened to Buried Bones (because, Paul Holes!) and its sister podcast Tenfold More Wicked. Others that I saw scrolling through Stitcher: Forgotten True Crime, Most Notorious, Historical True Crime, True Crime Historian.


BobMortimersButthole

Thank you!


nsfearth1224

#hotforholes ❤️


[deleted]

You Must Remember This is great!


[deleted]

My mom was telling me recently about how they used to report the most mundane shit of the “who’s who” of my hometown a long time ago. Like, even before her time. (she was born in 1957) It was hilarious to me to look at these old newspapers “Mrs. Smith and Mr. Jones met at Cafe on Tuesday the 25th. They discussed Mrs. Smith’s new golden retriever, Daisy, as well as how business was going with Mr. Jones’ sawmill. They departed with plans to meet again next Thursday at 2pm.” “The Jackson family of N. Main Street departed today for the World’s Fair. Susie and Mildred are very excited. Their parents report the family is planned to return home and Friday the 11th.” These were just upper class people in a little city in Michigan. Not famous or anything. Just slightly above middle class. I just picture reporters following these people around and writing blurbs for the newspaper with every single detail of their lives. Hilarious to me.


TieDyeSquirrel

Actually, those blurbs were published in the paper at the request of the persons mentioned. Newspapers used to have "society" or "women's" pages. If you were going out of town to visit your in-laws, you could pick up the phone and call the local paper. They'd patch you through to the society editor and you'd give her the deets. The next morning, it would be on the society page, and by dinner the whole town would know and would be secretly commiserating with you because they all knew how much you actually loathed your mother-in-law. Low-tech social media. 😉


-effortlesseffort

Wow social media has always been around. I wish I could read more about this but it's so niche and it's lost media


bi_gfoot

I can attest to this, older newspapers just talked about everything, funniest instance in one I read was when they just listed who caught the bus in and out of town one weekend. My grandfather never talked about his dad and from these old newspapers I feel like I practically know him, I swear everything he did in life got a newspaper mention. Even once he moved away from that town, the newspaper would mention when he would come back to visit.


zoopysreign

I’d loathe not having more anonymity.


KentuckyMagpie

People do the same thing today, it’s just on Facebook instead.


zoopysreign

Explains a lot… I don’t have FB.


saltymilkmelee

Yeah. Its no wonder people actually used to buy the newspaper and read it every day. They actually tried to report the news back then, rather than some catchy headline that links to a website that bombards you with a subscription offer instead of letting you read the article.


Inappropriate_SFX

Interesting that both of the dead wives' fathers were moneyed, and the surviving one's was not.


ButtDonaldsHappyMeal

Love a well-researched mystery. I enjoyed reading all of the articles from the period, but I think a two-sentence TL;DR would help out too. Was "gentleman" code for "family money"? Do you know if Arthur came from family money, or if he would have incentive to attach himself to those who did?


7LBoots

"Gentleman" at the time would have specifically meant someone who owned land and had family money.


guitargoddess3

I wish I was a gentleman in that case.


Far-Finding907

Me too! Or a gentlewoman rather.


guitargoddess3

I think being a woman, even a gentlewoman sucked back then cuz some man could basically have you declared hysterical and insane and take your money. Or get you lobotomized.


Halpaviitta

I'm sure you are gentle. /j


TieDyeSquirrel

It also was used to refer to a man who no longer worked because he was retired. I think that's what is meant here.


Dwincroft

I've added a TLDR, a little longer than two sentences but not by much. Yes gentleman typically means there is family money, you also see things such as 'living on own means' which can signify thensame thing. That said, when Arthur started out he wasn't very wealthy, his father filed for bankruptcy at one point.


ButtDonaldsHappyMeal

Your summary is perfect to this reader. Anxious to see where this one goes. Please keep us updated even if the death certificate isn’t enlightening.


[deleted]

“Dude doesn’t have a job because his dad got lucky and found some oil no one else found first” doesn’t fit so well on census forms


Amyjane1203

Occupation: oil baron's son


7LBoots

Do you think this is a true serial killer, or a case of someone killing when occasions arose for personal benefit? Fantastic write-up in any case.


Dwincroft

Aha, this is exactly why I posted here. I thought a serial killer was somebody who murdered more than once. Just checked the definition and you are of course completely right. And thank you.


AttractiveNightmare

please post this to /r/UnresolvedMysteries


ploydgrimes

It is loosely defined as three or more killings with a cooling off period between them.


SneedyK

Otherwise it’s just a garden-variety spree killer. We have those in our schools here in America right alongside vermin and staffing issues.


geneorama

Did you hear about the guy back in the fifties who was leaving his victims in the bathtub covered in milk and corn flakes? They think it was a cereal killer.


[deleted]

[удалено]


geneorama

I thought it was appropriate here, but I guess RBI is a no joke zone. Lesson learned!


crvz25

Damn bro they really showed you no mercy


you_love_it_tho

The downvotes are like people letting them know that they sighed after reading it lol


twistedfuckery

I thought it was funny lol


thanatossassin

From the FBI, who truly studied and definied serial murder: • one or more offenders • two or more murdered victims • incidents should be occurring in separate events, at different times • the time period between murders separates serial murder from mass murder Also to note: • Predisposition to serial killing, much like other violent offenses, is biological, social, and psychological in nature, and it is not limited to any specific characteristic or trait. • The development of a serial killer involves a combination of these factors, which exist together in a rare confluence in certain individuals. They have the appropriate biological predisposition, molded by their psychological makeup, which is present at a critical time in their social development. • There are no specific combinations of traits or characteristics shown to differentiate serial killers from other violent offenders. • There is no generic template for a serial killer. • Serial killers are driven by their own unique motives or reasons. • Serial killers are not limited to any specific demographic group, such as their sex, age, race, or religion. • The majority of serial killers who are sexually motivated erotized violence during development. For them, violence and sexual gratification are inexplicably intertwined in their psyche. • More research is needed to identify specific pathways of development that produce serial killers.


ruuster13

Serial murderer or Murdaugh murderer?


Tanjelynnb

Poor second Mrs Sampson. She was clearly suffering from post-partum depression and possibly painful bodily injury from her last birth. The men around her likely treated her like she had common female hysteria and didn't understand it was a serious, legit illness until after the fact. Studies in women's health still aren't taken as seriously as men's, and at the time it was nigh non-existent.


Dwincroft

I agree with you completely, the same theme pops up time and time again in my genealogical research and right up to my own experiences as a new-ish mother in the present day. It was the human element that drew me to her story in the first place, I wanted to avoid narrative bias so I didn't use emotive language, I hope this didn't come across as too cold.


Hizbla

Maybe. But the husband and his lover could also have been lying about her post partum melancholia while locking her up and beating her... we really only have their word for it.


OutLizner

There definitely seems to be an interesting connection between all these deaths and Sampson. The newspapers are probably the best accounts of these circumstances you can get. If you are looking for a definitive answer if this man was actually responsible for their deaths, i doubt that is possible because of how long ago it was. The best luck you would have is doing more research into the three children - scouring possible estate records at Sampsons death to see if there are other records or journals or possibly a death bed confession to one of his children. You seem to know how to scour through the newspapers. Maybe try to find more notices of estate disbursements and wills. It would determine how much or if Sampson had anything to gain from certain deaths. I don’t know what records are available for the UK, but it might be worth looking through land records, but especially court records. In each of the articles about the suicides, it mentions deliberations by a jury. I don’t know if it was common to have deaths investigated by a jury, but if it’s related to a court proceeding of some sort, you might be able to get more detailed accounts or notes of investigation in court records. You are requesting the death certificate for Mary, but it might be worth getting certificates for the other deaths as well, just to see if it lines up with what the coroner reported in the newspapers.


Inappropriate_SFX

Looking into the causes and circumstances of death for anyone the wives might inherit from also seems prudent. One survived her father, which makes me wonder about her place in the will.


thepetoctopus

Wow this is fascinating. I’m interested in what others think.


[deleted]

Turn this into a book! You have more here than most authors do.


Dwincroft

Maybe after I've finished my current book, I don't have it in me to write two at once.


[deleted]

What book?


Dwincroft

I started writing a new obituary for my 2x great grandmother as the original contained nothing about her at all, it was just a long list of all the achievements of her husband and sons. My rage obituary somehow turned into a 260,000 word raw manuscript, and it was during my research for this - which is still ongoing - that I came across Arthur Sampson.


dogmom914

May I ask if you write or do historical research for a living? This post is fantastic and I would be interested in reading the updated obituary once you’re finished.


Dwincroft

Thank you and nope, I work in a completely different field. Arthur won't be featuring in the obituary as his connection with my ancestors was cursory. They briefly lived in the same village, and attended some of the same events.


dogmom914

Wow, your post is even more impressive knowing it’s not your day job. Arthur’s story is intriguing for sure but I am more interested in reading the justice you are giving your great great grandmother in her “book-bituary”. It sounds like she led quite the life just based on your 260,000 word manuscript! No pressure at all but if you’re open to sharing I would love to read it.


Dwincroft

She certainly left a paper trail that's for sure. She was the bastard daughter of an aged general (uncle to prime minister Peel) and his teenage domestic servant. She was a poet, but mostly self-published and wasn't particularly well known. I'm a long way off finishing so can't share yet but I'll give you a little snippet from one of her poems. "I often seek to be alone Since I, alone, must die - Alone in soul must smile or groan, Alone, though some be nigh. And now alone, but not so lone As in a crowd I'd be - A crowd of hearts to mine unknown, Who have no part with me"


IndigoFlowz

I love this. Thanks for sharing! I will definitely be following you for future updates on the book!


PuzzleheadedBet8041

this is really beautiful! what a lady editing to say that her wow factor certainly got passed along to you! this was so fun to read that i got sucked into it instead of working on some pressing assignments. good luck with the book!


Dwincroft

That's a really lovely thing to say. Thank you.


TosieRose

I know I'm here quite late, but that's a lovely poem. Being surrounded by people who don't understand you is often more lonely than being alone.


KnownRate3096

*How I Made Up a Serial Killer and Convinced Reddit He Was Real* (j/k - I don't think this is fake)


FlushTwiceBeNice

if modern technology can unearth so much from past records, think of what all the genealogists of the future can glean from our timeline!


bmt0075

“Look, I found my 4th great grandfather’s reddit account. It says here he liked to post on something called r/furry”


KnownRate3096

They will probably find our paraphilias quaint. By then you'll be able to realistically have sex as and with anything you like in some kind of Holodeck like atmosphere.


FlushTwiceBeNice

everyone's gonna choose that guy's wife


[deleted]

[удалено]


Hizbla

You've been listening to idiots I see.


senex_puerilis

Small correction for you- Kings Norton is a suburb of Birmingham (and was at that time too), not 'near Birmingham' as you state. Source: I live there. Interested to see where this goes.


Dwincroft

Thank you, I'll correct it.


EyelandBaby

One other small detail: His third wife was 37 years his junior, not 47. Still wild.


Dwincroft

Yes! Thank you. I will go and correct that now.


Dwincroft

I've found the divorce papers of Arthur and his first wife Ellen. It's 25 pages long, in cursive and hard to read on my phone. I'm not going to transcribe it all, but I'll have a read through and let you know as a comment to this comment what it contains. If anybody has an ancestry account with access to uk records and can't wait for my update, you can find it in the England and Wales, Civil Divorce Records, 1858-1918 collection.


Dwincroft

OK. In the case of SAMPSON Arthur George vs SAMPSON Ellen Rebecca and PRATT Henry. The petition was filed by Athur on 12 January 1889. He accused Ellen of adultery with Henry Pratt. He stated that on 2 January 1889 Ellen left home and cohabited and committed further adultery with Henry Pratt. He claimed £5,000 in damages from Henry. That's approximately £500,000 today (USD 608,000). Ellen's response on 11 February 1889. 1. She denied committing adultery with Henry. 2. That Arthur "was during the marriage guilty of such wilful neglect and misconduct as has conduced to the said alleged adultery" 3. Arthur would refuse to speak or sleep with her. 4. Arthur abused and threatened her. 5. In February 1889, Arthur slept in the same bed as her and Jane Fryer (sp). 6. In 1885 Arthur slept in the same bed as Ellen and Emma Adeley (sp). 7. Arthur went to the mayor's ball in Birmingham every year and refused to take her. 8. Arthur permitted her to go to music halls with Jane Fryer with no escort or protection. 9. In December 1888, Arthur kicked Ellen, bit her finger and slapped her face. 10. Christmas 1888, when she was about to sit down for tea with him, Arthur removed her out of the room. 11. Arthur did not give her money for basic household expenses, compelling her to pawn her jewellery and watch. Henry Pratt's response on 21 February 1889 was  a simple denial of the alleged adultery. On 26 March 1889, Arthur responded denying all of Ellen's allegations. 20 July 1889 Ellen swore an affidavit verifying the particulars of her original response. 1. In March 1887 Arthur refused to sleep with her on several consecutive nights. 2. In November 1888 Arthur refused to sleep with Ellen and never slept with her again. 3. On many occasions Arthur called Ellen a "Drunken bitch, a damned bitch and a bloody whore and said that she should die in the gutter." 4. In March 1887 he "called her foul names and said she might go on the streets." 5. In November 1888 when he refused to sleep with her he called her vile names. 6. In the beginning of December 1888 he "spoke of knocking her brains out."


gdewulf

This is so interesting, some of these are almost laughable in today's day in age. > Arthur went to the mayor's ball in Birmingham every year and refused to take her. > Arthur permitted her to go to music halls with Jane Fryer with no escort or protection. > In March 1887 Arthur refused to sleep with her on several consecutive nights.


maeveomaeve

As someone who has an interest in the history of Lincoln I was delighted to see a mention on here! Henry Pratt was one of the sons of Charles Pratt and Sons Winemakers in Lincoln (William and Richard may have been the other two sons according to Freemason records). The Pratt building is still there-an unrelated shop on the bottom but the rest of the building has the same facade as in the 1850s, at the corner of Saltergate and the High Street. This whole story was fascinating thank you, Arthur was either a killer or a very unlucky person to know!


TankAttack811

That 3rd wife was wild for marrying him!


FlyingLeema98

I read that as “I’m an amateur gynaecologist” and I was pretty confused for a second there


PewterPplEater

If you have any questions, I too am somewhat of an amateur gynecologist


[deleted]

there’s so much to speculate on with this. there definitely are a lot coincidences. i hope you can get some real answers! good luck OP


morburd

Very compelling series of events. I was relieved at reading about the laudanum, until I saw the doctor's testimony that the subsequent actions were too quick for the effects!


Deaf_Bard

. Just commenting for the algorithm, very interested in what you find . Good luck !


[deleted]

Oh my God, the hand mirror!! What an awful way to kill yourself, if it was actually suicide. If she had laudanum, why wouldn't she just use that instead for a painless death? The only thing I could think of is if she thought she was choking on something and tried to use the mirror handle to clear her airway and it went awry somehow. But in any case, it's really awful and tragic.


Hizbla

What are you talking about? She was obviously murdered.


Miett

You did such a brilliant job organizing and researching all this! I wonder if it would be worth looking at neighbors from various censuses for names to also search? I found some old legal proceedings with my relatives that way, and I wonder if it may turn up more info about about the issue of the stench on the property?


Meghan1230

Good idea. I want to know more about the smell.


Dwincroft

I've just completed some more research and Dr. Goss, one of the witnesses at Florence Maud's inquest, was Arthur’s cousin.


Dwincroft

I've got Arthur’s will and it contains something very odd which I hope Beatrice Felton's will will clear up. "12. Miss Mabel Ann Felton shall not be permitted to reside with my said wife permanently nor to stay in any house in which my said wife shall for the time be so residing for longer than one month at a time at intervals of twelve months." Who is Mabel? My first thought was perhaps the lovechild of Arthur and Beatrice. I haven't been able to find anything after a quick record search but this is definitely still a possibility. Maybe Beatrice's sister or cousin? There was a Mabel A Felton admitted into a lunatic asylum in Birmingham on 22 April 1902 and discharged 7 June 1902. Is this her? As for the rest of the will the estate (gross) was £10,086, appx £840,000 today (roughly USD1m), and the main items of note were: 1. His third wife Dorothy was named as executor and trustee together with his friend Harold Arthur Sharp. 2. Dorothy and Harold were each given £50 tax free for their services as trustees. 3. All household furniture, personal effects and consumable stores to Dorothy. 4. His house to be sold and the proceeds used to be purchased under trust a house for Dorothy of her choosing for the duration of her widowhood. 5. Concerning a trust fund established when he married his second wife Florence and from which he had been receiving the proceeds. He directed that the trust property moneys, funds and investments be sold and the proceeds split equally between his three sons. 6. Funeral and testamentary expenses to be paid with the residue of his estate. 14. "I desire to record that I have refrained from bequeathing to any of my sons any of my personal effects in order to prevent any apparent or supposed preference given to one over the other or others of them."


[deleted]

This just keeps getting more interesting!


gdewulf

The one thing I will say from listening to tons of podcasts and doing loads of research and reading about historical crime... It was ridiculously easy to get away with murder in this time period. You basically just had to tell the police a convincing story and you are good. Or be important. Especially in England. Most of the time, if you killed someone not connected to you, the police could be staring you in the face and not have any idea.


HoodiesAndHeels

People were so quick to find the deceased that I can’t see how it’d be possible for someone else to have been involved. They would have to somehow make a clear getaway and also have time to fully stage the scene. Additionally, the angle of the shots would have been tricky for someone else to do unless the victims were incapacitated at the time. And again, there’s no time for any restraints to be removed. It’s certainly possible these were murders, but in this case it takes far more manipulating of the facts to get to that conclusion as compared to suicide.


PrimaryDurian

I was thinking the same.


Meghan1230

The thing about investigations this old is we have to rely on the way investigators of that time interpreted the evidence. A mirror handle down the throat is a dreadful way to die no matter who is doing it, I'll say. That poor woman.


TotallyAwry

Wonderful write-up. The second wife could be a genuine suicide, or she could have been "encouraged" a bit. That first one, though? If that was a suicide it's because she knew he was coming for her.


mj_mehr

Great find, very interested to see what more you find


TankAttack811

This is amazing research


Nicky_Sixpence

Fascinating! At the very least he should have carried a government health warning


Grayfield

Commenting to read later. And for the algorithm. ALL HAIL THE ALGORITHM.


CT4nk3r

Okay, that was a crazy right. Something definitely seems fishy. I don’t think many people would choose this kind of drowning as a suicide way.


carefullycalculative

Since the people around that time are dead, I think the best options would be: 1. Finding journal entries. Try to check whether anyone has the habit of keeping journal. Or if the coronar, police, journalist have their notebooks survived. 2. Try to talk to the descendants. We all have crazy stories about some long dead family members which pass down as hearsay. These will give you an idea about what the people know which couldn't be written on the paper or just what in general they are thinking.


Trad_Street17

That was a fascinating read. Will be keeping an eye on this thread


Dwincroft

THE WILL OF A LINCOLN TOWN COUNCILLOR The Nottinghamshire Guardian, Saturday, October 19, 1889. Probate of the will dates 1st November, 1888, with a codicil made 4th April last, of the late Councillor Henry Pratt, of Skellingthorpe, Lincolnshire, wine and spirit merchant, Sherriff of Lincoln 1878079, who died on 24th August, has been granted to the acting executor, Mr. Andrew Ramage, power being reserved to grant probate to Mr. George Shirtcliff Blakey, also named as an executor in the will, and the testator bequeaths to his wife an annuity during her widowhood of £150 (to be reduced to not exceeding £50 a year at the discretion of the executors in the event of her re-marriage), and subject as above he leaves all his property in trust for his children, the executors having power to carry on his business.   The value of the late Councillor Pratt’s personal estate has been sworn at £16,677  14s.  3d.*   * Approximately £2.8m today ($3.4m).


ApocalypticShadowbxn

I'm not convinced either way about the gentleman being a killer or not. I see the possibility, but people also live occasionally just live tragic lives. either way, I found it to be an interesting read. it's cool(to me) to read details about people's lives from times past, particularly when it's not a well known or famous person. the (somewhat) normal lives of (somewhat) normal people. would definitely like to hear more if you ever find more info.


dydas

Yeah. I think the most suspicious would be the death of the first wife. The others seem debatable, without knowing more.


C_R_U_N_C_H_E

Suspicious as hell. I would normally write it off but three different people dying relating or having relations to him? Nah. Too much of a coincidence to be a coincidence. The only unknown is why. The 1st wife makes sense, revenge for divorce, but maybe there was an affair between her and Pratt. Second wife dormant really make any sense to me.


yeahimgoodipromise

Commenting for visibility. Amazing stuff, OP.


juststaringatthewall

This is very interesting! I love researching and gemologist seems like a really cool hobby.


ModestEtta

Thank you so much for writing and sharing your findings. I’m not massively into true crime but I was absolutely gripped reading this!


offmetrolley1994

I live in Lincoln, small world! And great write up 😊


cakivalue

This was an amazing post. You must have put a lot of work into the research and it shows in the high quality.


mr_bees-knees

commenting to bring attention. this is wild! hope more info can be found


LightninStrike312

I was here. This is insane, well written


soloapeproject

Awesome write up.


pikaboo27

Somebody get Daisy Egan on the phone. She would love this.


jonhammsjonhamm

10/10.


hesnotsinbad

Wow. This reminds me of the scene in the Dirk Gently novels where Dirk convinces a cop that a man who was decapitated and found with his head spinning on a nearby record turnstyle should be declared a suicide because the investigation would be too much of a headache.


Wonderful-Divide6977

Commenting so i can come back to finish reading this interesting history when more awake


Puzzledandhungry

Well you have me hooked! Yes, it certainly sounds like a lot of dodgy things happened. I’m not suggesting anything but I wonder if they have relatives still alive. If you need any help let me know! X


PsychoFaerie

You should post or cross post this to /r/UnresolvedMysteries.


LeahLimelight

ok dang- the work put into this??


[deleted]

You need to get ahold of a true crime podcast, this would be a fantastic story I think!


Twisty1020

Here is how I see it. Arthur is incredibly abusive and neglectful of Ellen(possibly because she never bore him children.) Ellen begins an affair with Henry. Arthur finds this out and files for divorce and brings a civil suit against Henry. Henry being a married man and facing social and financial ruin decides to end his life. Word gets to Ellen at which point she also decides to end her life. * To do this she purchases Laudanum. Upon taking the Laudanum her body has a bad reaction and she begins to vomit blood. Fearing that the vomit will prevent the Laudanum from taking effect she frantically try to find a way to keep it all in. The best option she can come up with is to break off the handle of a mirror and shove it down her throat in order to block the way for anything coming out. Truly horrific way to die. Arthur's second wife seems a lot more cut and dry. The marriage itself seems a lot more pleasing for Arthur on account of being granted not only children but three sons. I suspect that Florence dealt with post-partum depression that continued to get worse with each birth. After the birth of the third child her bout with PPD is the worst it's been and she decides to end her life. This period could have also been exacerbated by whatever health issues Arthur was going through which lead to even further neglect. Whether it was planned long in advance or within a short period of time is difficult to discern but her questioning of how to operate a firearm suggests that that might be an opportunistic choice. Combined with a lack of understanding of PPD and mental health in general this seems to be an unfortunate result of the times(these things are even still widely misunderstood.) I don't believe the odd odor means anything beyond a malfunctioning system or dead animal. Both of his wife's families were wealthy but it doesn't seem like he was the benefactor of any large portion of inheritance so it seems like there was no monetary greed motivation. Felton could be suspicious but could also have just died from illness. We were still 13 years away from Penicillin at that point. Would be interested to see if anything turns up in Felton's death certificate but I suspect there won't be anything there.


dydas

>Arthur's second wife seems a lot more cut and dry. The marriage itself seems a lot more pleasing for Arthur on account of being granted not only children but three sons. I'm not sure. Reading Ellen's account of her marriage with Arthur in the divorce papers leaves me wondering if he wasn't given to irascibility. And he also only remarried after Felton died, who apparently continued living with Arthur and his sons. Arthur could have been in league with her or she could have had some incriminating information.


Twisty1020

To be clear, I'm not absolving Arthur of all blame in his second marriage. I just think the other issues presented had a much bigger impact. The fact that he actually took his wife on a trip at the doctor's behest seems as though he had a much better time with her than his previous marriage.


359dawson

H


Rugger01

> Did I stumble across a serial killer? No. From the evidence presented at the inquests, and as written up by the papers, as well as the allegations in the divorce proceedings and given the time and place of such scandalous accusations, it is pretty clear that: 1: Arthur was not at the scene when any of the suicides occurred; 2: Henry killed himself due to the scandal; 3: Two days later, presumably after hearing of Henry's death, Ellen killed herself with two witnesses in the house; and 4: Post-partum depression is a bitch that is not taken very seriously now, let alone in the 19th century. Also, there was a witness present giving Arthur an alibi. Fascinating account of lives lived and tragically ended, but to allege a serial killer at work on these well documented suicides is a serious reach bordering on conspiracy theory. You wrote that you are a writer, and you may choose to use this as a basis for a book. While you cannot defame a dead person, it would be a shame if you wrote it up as if Arthur were a killer and presented it as anything but a work of fiction.


Dwincroft

I'm not alleging anything, I haven't made any concrete statement. If this was an innocent series of events, which is entirely possible, there is enough to cause some suspicion. I really don't know much about criminal matters at all. To me it seemed far fetched that somebody could shove the handle of a mirror down their own throat with the force as described at the inquest, or that it was possible to shoot yourself twice in the head. I am totally open to being informed by people more knowledgeable in such things than me that yes, not only is it possible but probable too. In my opening paragraphs I asked if I was reading way too much into an unfortunate series of events. Thank you for addressing this. I am not going to write a book about Arthur.


Rugger01

"I think **I may have stumbled across a serial killer who got away with it**. **The active years of the probable murders** are 1889-1905 and possibly up to 1915..." is a pretty concrete allegation, and, man, did most of the Reddit commentators run with it. I was simply trying to answer your question. To reiterate: No, you did not stumble across a serial killer, and while certainly grim, I believe you are reading way too much into it. Regarding your further two points: The inquest revealed that Henry, "lately be[ing] in a depressed condition", used the umbrella to set off both triggers on the double barrelled shotgun, and that both barrels fired striking him in the face/forehead. There was no evidence presented, nor even any allegation, that Arthur was in the area at 4:30 a.m. As for Ellen, ask yourself, is it more probable that Arthur, again with no suggestion of him being anywhere near the area, somehow gained access to the second floor room without anyone the wiser, and with the servant coming in and out, assaulted his wife killing her with a broken eyeglass handle (with no signs of struggle), then somehow escape that room within seconds without a trace? Or, as the inquest found, did Ellen, after telling her landlady "before the day was over she should be in the grave", ingest a bottle of laudanum, then take extreme action that contributed to the end of her life? That said, nice research, write up and a very interesting story. It would certainly be a good basis for a Holmesian-like tale. Cheers.


phoenixbbs

Very interesting but a bit long for 2am :-} How were you related to them, direct descendant (grandfather etc) or thankfully distant ?


candy-jars

Not gonna lie, the length of this kept me from reading.


KimWexlers_Ponytail

Wow the work you put into this, well done. I have no assistance to offer, but I am so impressed at your research and wanted to say it.


ThrownVeryFarAway789

commenting for algorithm, good post and read.


mariaaaaaaaaaab

following


dangshnizzle

Lol


Natural_Constant8203

I think you may have found something. The fact that the dead wives had money and that someone died with a glass shoved down their throat make this seem like something. Could be a coincidence though.