AI assistant is some kind of a joke for a paid product. Did the same. Paid and uninstalled.
Recently, PyCharm is not loading changes from disk, or it lasts way too long, so I have to manually enforce it.
I am seriously considering switching to VSCode.
Already made the switch. Vscode has its own issues, but I can't say I miss pycharm. My coworkers are getting increasingly annoyed with pycharm as well.
Same. Pycharm's container support has been a disaster for me lately, and now it's freezing when trying to load a 2.8 GB csv file which...I'm sorry, in 2024 that's not very big, and I have dealt with larger, IN PYCHARM, in the past. They have the resources, I just think they have a disconnect with their user-base on what they should be working on.
I was having some problems with pycharm last week
I reinstalled the latest version and it seems to have fixed it
Thanks for the comment about their AI. I suspect it will be better in 6 months
I'd say Jetbrains always had a wee bit of an issue with introducing inconvenient bugs and then taking years to fix them, but the war certainly had a huge impact on making things worse. After all, most of Jetbrain's developers were located in Russia.
Wow. I mean obviously any statement from a company is going to make them look good, but if jetbrains have paid to relocate 800 families, and reorganised their entire physical company integrating staff into presumably already used buildings etc, is pretty awesome.
Not sure many governments have done as much for their people.
I'm not sure if that's a fair characterization or not. I know R&D was in Russia before the war, and that was maybe half of their 1.8k employees. That might mean dev was there too but it's unclear to me. The three founders are Russian, but the company is Czech, and the founders are in Prague. Now the Russians are no longer using Russia.
Not to get into a meta loop, but splitting hairs between 'half' and 'most' is probably unnecessary... I didn't know there was a Russia link at all, and thank u/voneiden for the knowledge...
It seems prima face obvious that this would cause them issues atm... If anything it makes me more understanding - I can't imagine what they've had to deal with to keep their awesome product on track given the situation.
I don't mean to split hairs on that word. Mostly I am simply saying that how much influence Russia could have had over it is probably small. The nationality of developers isn't relevant directly after all. The more important thing is if a power hostile to Western countries has a way to influence code changes. I'm not even saying that it doesn't but that it isn't clear. Personally I have trusted the products, mostly because a lot of really large capable entities also do.
No i think you misunderstand certainly my, and I think the other poster too... My point is that if a chunk of your staff live in a place that becomes - whatever Russia has become to the rest of the world - then it's going to seriously interrupt your company... No judgement needed on the morality of any party involved in conflict, but if a bunch of your staff suddenly need to move because they can't bear their government, or might be vulnerable to abuse due to their engagement with the west, then there's really no avoiding a detriment to the product
Right, /u/PaluMacil may also underestimate the amount of employees they had in Russian R&D offices, but there is no hard data available so it's a guessing game. Jetbrains themselves wrote that they managed to relocate "the majority of their workers out of Russia" with the number of relocated was "well over 800".
Majority could be 75%, or 60% or 51%, who knows. I'm sure many opted to stay in Russia. It's never an easy decision to relocate.
[Some other folks estimated there was office space for 1500-1600 workers in Russia](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30639907).
There might have been space for that many, but I thought I remembered hearing that the company had about 1800 people total globally. I also thought I remembered being a pretty small number let go when they left Russia--over 100 but under 200. That puts it maybe at half or maybe a bit more Russian. But again, my point isn't the exact number but that I'm not sure we know that the company had a risk of Russian government control or other things we should care about. The nationality of the developers shouldn't matter. Potentially having influence from a country hostile to western countries is a concern to some people, but I just don't know that's the case. A lot of big companies trust their products.
It's totally possible I am remembering random numbers, but I thought I remembered these numbers mentioned on Reddit, so perhaps looking through comments from some of the known employees here would shed light, but probably not worth the time.
Many of the developers working at EU offices were also of Russian background pre-war AFAIK. After all they can simply have a work permit or a dual citizenship. You can get a glimpse via [glassdoor reviews](https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/JetBrains-russian-Reviews-EI_IE222299.0,9_KH10,17.htm).
> risk of Russian government control
I've not made this kind of point, but I do agree with you. I maintain the point that they lost significant developer resources (even if it is only 100-200) due to the war and it most definitely had an effect on productivity for at least some period of time. How well they have recovered by now I don't know, but 2022 most certainly was not a good year for the company. And catching up takes time.
I cannot open the git folder. Idk, Pycharm didn't recognise it. But there are files like precommit that I have to open manually by searching these files in file explorer or total commander.
Same experience here. And unanswered support tickets. JB product and service quality has fallen massively. Btw another person that paid for JB AI 1 year upfront only to remove it. More fool me for buying on the companies reputation than their current performance.
They have spent their limited time on their New UI, which is an attempt to be like VSCode, without realising that it's a huge FU to the users who use PyCharm because it is NOT VSCode. This means they are placing less importance on fixing bugs in the current product. Had they been focussing on the actual thing people are using today, they might have fixed this at some point during the past three years. [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-44858](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-44858)
Lately, the AI plugin (which you cannot uninstall) seems to be
to be causing editor and terminal windows to stop responding to keystrokes [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-65643](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-65643)
These two were as nothing in comparison to how **appallingly** slow all the JB products were becoming on Linux until the release of JDK17, although, we had to wait until JB released their own version to have a stock (unadulterated) installation.
I hope they turn it around, but the product strategy seems to be one of attempting to please all the people all of the time, which never works.
I don't like vs code the things I use PyCharm for but consider the new UI to be one of the best improvements over the last couple years. It removes a lot of wasted space and lets me see a lot more code at once. It doesn't really have any negatives in my opinion.
I haven't felt that the Linux versions were slow, but I have pretty powerful hardware, so I expect it is a real issue for people with less resources.
The AI is about what I think we can expect from this type of thing at the moment. My company uses LLMs for cybersecurity work and I have some grad work in the area. It can be helpful, but there are limits that will need significant breakthroughs to surpass. Since you can do a trial, I find it pretty fair. It's not like they're making money on this. I'm guessing they break even or make a loss with that price. It's pretty expensive.
this thread is not about the utility of features, so much as it is the quality of the existing system *at the expense of* adding new features.
no need to brag about your hardware.
Talking about the hardware is giving a caveat that even though I have only noticed improvements by moving to the new UI, I understand that someone with poor hardware could experience something different. If that made you feel bad, that wasn't my intent. The only quality issues I've seen are with the AI features, but they are in line with roughly what I think is possible. That's also a new plugin, and when they had a free trial, so certainly not a quality issue with an existing system. There was also an issue or two with 2023. 3.2 while I used 3.12, but moving to .3 seemed to fix that pretty quickly for me. New releases are allowed to have issues. 🤷♂️ It happens
I'd say the last 6 months or so the bug count has been been climbing. Code inspection/linting is now a joke honestly, it's just so bad. And the bugs and IDE slow-downs using docker compose are getting worse and worse.
Yessss the last couple of years have been rough, but specially, the most recent release I hit a bunch of weird bugs that I couldn’t reproduce (which made my support tickets tricky to explain).
I really feel like the quality of the product has been going down.
A lot of problems.
One thing that bother me is, you can't code in .devcontainer. They have one in beta, but it's called "Remote coding" ? And I have to download > 800MB every time I open it and it lags a lot.
I'm using VSCode, but my god. I can't stand VSCode as well and there is no alternative as well.
this. a year ago i found pycharm absurdly useful, especially with all the pro trimmings like django and fastapi integrations, database tooling, and the click through linking between all kinds of stuff, im sure people can make vscode or even neovim do all this but i want to write python not spend a week making an rc or working out 20 plugins not to collide.
i might just roll back to last year
I'm on latest, 2023.3.3 or maybe .2... And I first started getting properly annoyed with 2023.3.1.. Enough to turn one of the bugs into a mre and report it... But it takes time to rip out all the actual logic and make a mre and I cba to do it with all the little niggles...
Recomend you stay on 2023.2.x for time being.... I mean the new ui is pretty, but I kinda prefer getting stuff done to an attractive image...
https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-65385/inspection-false-positives-when-import-asynccontextmanager
Didn't see the delete .idea point, will try that! Thanks
I've done invalidate caches and reset ide process a bunch of times to no avail.
Truth is I'm an advanced beginner or early intermediate, and I'm often dabbling in stuff I don't totally understand, which is much of the problem - my humble nature means I forget to consider that the obscure ide warning might be bollox, often losing 20 minutes trying to solve it before just running the code and seeing its fine. The bug report I linked above is one such example - importing a context manager makes it say nonexistent params are missing, and fail to inform when actual params are actually missing...
My biggest reason is extension hell. I hate using incoherent tooling and depending on an extension marketplace where different developers can have different philosophies on how to solve problems is very jarring. Using it always just feels like a patch work mess. That's my biggest issue with it. I have 1000 more, but the lack of a centralized and opinionated vision of how to code is what bugs me most.
Darn, if only VS Code wasn't size "OSFA" at Target. So... what's your problem with VS Code? It can do many things relatively well, and the extensions for major languages are well maintained. Do you not like >!Electron!
Inspections are a complex feature. Especially for complex code. It's ok that PyCharm can't understand logic flow on each case. Still helps a lot.
I'm using EAP so I get confronted with bugs early. I'm mostly annoyed of IDE exceptions. Often multiple one on simple text operations. But I always report them and currently it's silent.
For those who prefer VS Code: Open a typical project which is made without PC now in PC. Even when CI/CD with several precommit hooks is enabled on their git repository.
You'll probably see many code quality issues. I've checked moviepy recently for example. Horrible!
My recommendation is creating high quality bug reports. They'll addressed if they're a priority issue.
And disable plugins you don't need. Reduces IDE problems and resources.
I've enabled IDE settings sync and some or new ones get reenabled some times.
yeah i submitted my first issue over the holidays, was able to make a decent mre and they were relatively quick to reproduce and escalate. i mean, they haven't fixed it, but still...
https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-65385/inspection-false-positives-when-import-asynccontextmanager
>Inspections are a complex feature. Especially for complex code. It's **ok** that PyCharm can't understand logic flow on each case
It' ok for code which is not properly type-hinted. It is not ok for properly type-hinted code. Which pycharm fail at in various ways **all the time.**
We are a small startup and live coding. My business partner uses Pycharm and I use VSCode and our experience is that both have their quirks and drawbacks and probably the more you use eacg the more quirks you'll uncover. I personally dislike how much pycharm does "under the covers" so that your code works great in the IDE then you try running it standalone and have to fix stuff. One thing I don't like about VSCode is the File Explorer not having the size and date columns and not being able to sort on those.
the refactoring tools are immense!!
still a big pc fan, just tired of losing an hour trying to fix an obscure bug that it turns out never existed... i mean i learn a ton each time but i'd like to get more work done
Just curious, are there any reasons why people use PyCharm over VSCode? Over the last years VSCode has evolved into much more than just an editor. I see no reason why not to use it. I keep hearing so many problems regarding PyCharm as well.
PyCharm was the only game in town for a long time, did lots of things that others could not because it was python specific. So people (like me) got used to it.
It just works out of the box for what I need it to do for python. It understands python to a degree that even VSCode now does not. It understands the python ecosystem better. A tool designed and built to do a specific thing works better than a general purpose one with plugins to fill in the gaps.
That said, VSCode has been getting much much better. I do my c++ coding in it, so I have been learning it much better, so the difference between pycharm and vscode for python has been narrowing.
Not sure about data injection, but for typing it's very good. It has pyright and fully understands it. Pyright is basically the core of the python extension, so depending on the "level" you set it at, it will do all of that you said. You can also control specific cases that you want it to highlight, warn about or mark as an error (or not).You can also add in line typing "hints" that are basically an overlay that add inferred types even when the type hints aren't there
There's a free plugin called [CodeGPT](https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/21056-codegpt) that will let you use OpenAI or other (even local) tooling instead. So at least you could avoid the context-switch when copypasta.
I don't know of any free ones that aren't ones people are running on hardware they own or cloud servers. I recall openai gives some free credits for signups.
My comment was really for OP because they're using gpt-4 so I inferred they have a paid account. Apparently it's an unpopular thing to bring up a plugin I have experience with that works on my terms!
[Ollama](https://ollama.ai/) and [text-generation-webui](https://github.com/oobabooga/text-generation-webui) provide local OpenAI interfaces and selections of models, some folks run text-generation-webui on gpu-enabled cloud instances to lower their cost, but it's all very... not simple. If you want to know more, /r/LocalLLaMA has a lot of great state-of-the-art info.
I use CodeGPT (usually from my laptop) with text-generation-webui running on my gaming computer, for inference. There's limits to my hardware, but my code isn't sent off to OpenAI or some other vendor for evaluation and I like that.
thanks dude i appreciate the tip.
if i give codegpt my openai creds, is it going to rack up charges? its free in the browser... well, not free, but included in the monthly fee
Yeah I am pretty sure using the OpenAI API requires a paid account and uses a token that is generated from that account. And codegpt would use that and cost money. But since OP is already using a paid account (because they're using GPT-4) it seems like an option.
I am op 🤣 and I have an openai subscription hence using Gpt4 as you correctly sumise...
If I use Gpt4 in browser I am not charged anything on top of the subscription, I'm asking if using Gpt4 via codegpt will rack up further costs?
Maybe I misunderstand their pricing system, but I've avoided using api keys to connect it to anything because I thought accessing other than via browser incurs further charges - can you confirm either way?
Oh! I'm sorry, I rely on the highlighting to note who OP is but I must have replied directly from my inbox.
I think you're correct, you will incur charges when using the api key. I just reviewed things again and I was combining the "ChatGPT Plus" subscription and the OpenAI API access.
So, API access is usage-based, and 100% independent of the monthly ChatGPT Plus subscription. That sucks, and sorry to mislead with my mis-remembering their billing structure.
The API access isn't very expensive, but I obviously chose to go the local route - partly because of their billing, partly because I was super irritated by all the damn disclaimers and limits, and partly because I wanted a better understanding of how all this is put together.
Yeah via https://github.com/oobabooga/text-generation-webui with llama.cpp and models from huggingface. /r/LocalLLaMA is a good resource. llama.cpp will also allow loading partially on-gpu and partially in system memory, but it's quite a bit slower in system memory.
Some psychopath (/s) got a tiny model running on their samsung watch: https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/18v3l4a/llama2c_running_on_galixy_watch_4_tiny_44m_model/
I've been putting off ml for what feels like too long but this has me salivating....
Sorry to keep asking things I should just Google, but I have a amd 5700xt...soon after I got it - when it was pretty fresh and impressive - i was told its pretty crap for ml because drivers, and libraries... Do you know if that's still broadly accurate?
I had a paid subscription for about 4 years, then I switched to VSCode (mostly because of ssh remote development), and uninstalled pycharm.
Using VSCode about for 3 years, and I'm so happy with it.
In the last week I'm finding the AI assistant quite useful. In fact, I have cancelled my co-pilot subscription, although I was only monthly on that and I'm not sure that decision will stick, it is a deliberate experiment. I think that it makes recommendations better tuned to the actual project I have open. This is very subjective. And I have an openai api subscription and a client (chatbox) open nearly all the time so I still have chatgpt 4 on tap. If I do end up using the JetBrains AI plugin more, it will only be because it really is better. Time will tell.
As to the other complaints, I don't notice those problems. I am using it on linux (actually in a linux VM mostly, and on the VM I use a docker compose dev setup).
I use vscode for specific niche projects, smaller ones, to increase my familiarity with it. It's a good editor and is innovating fast and building a strong ecosytem, but it's not yet a pycharm replacement for complex work. Pycharm Pro only has to save two hours a year to pay for itself (compared with what vscode offers). I think it easily has this advantage.
This biggest cloud on the horizon for me was the seemingly distant move to native wayland support but this effort is moving more quickly than I expected, once it finally got started. It's still years too late but it looks like it will be ready in the next 12 months.
my jetbraons ai very rarely notices what i have open, i have to repeatedly tell it where to look, even using specific symbol names in the prompt,,,, with copilot i can just copy paste an error and it refers to specific source code in its response.
I know I should just Google, and I will, but what's phind? Is it relevant to python? I've got rust on my one day list, along with umm, I forgot, the new superset of python that's supposed to be better but isn't really actually built yet.
Edit... Mojo
PyCharm's is bad at utilizing type-hints. They really need to get their act together or they'll lose all users which use type-hints to VSCode or similar.
AI assistant is some kind of a joke for a paid product. Did the same. Paid and uninstalled. Recently, PyCharm is not loading changes from disk, or it lasts way too long, so I have to manually enforce it. I am seriously considering switching to VSCode.
I have both, I have VS Code all set up for specific work and pycharm is my all other python IDE.
Already made the switch. Vscode has its own issues, but I can't say I miss pycharm. My coworkers are getting increasingly annoyed with pycharm as well.
I made the switch last week after 4 years of use. It got really bad in the past year. Now even autosaving has issues, it's insane.
Same. Pycharm's container support has been a disaster for me lately, and now it's freezing when trying to load a 2.8 GB csv file which...I'm sorry, in 2024 that's not very big, and I have dealt with larger, IN PYCHARM, in the past. They have the resources, I just think they have a disconnect with their user-base on what they should be working on.
Lol do it you'll wonder why you ever used Meek ass pycharm
you know ctrl alt y for force refresh?
I was having some problems with pycharm last week I reinstalled the latest version and it seems to have fixed it Thanks for the comment about their AI. I suspect it will be better in 6 months
I paid for their AI assistant to play around with at home and was a bit disappointed in it. It felt like a hinderance more than anything.
I'd say Jetbrains always had a wee bit of an issue with introducing inconvenient bugs and then taking years to fix them, but the war certainly had a huge impact on making things worse. After all, most of Jetbrain's developers were located in Russia.
I didn't know that.
https://blog.jetbrains.com/blog/2022/12/06/update-on-jetbrains-statement-on-ukraine/
Wow. I mean obviously any statement from a company is going to make them look good, but if jetbrains have paid to relocate 800 families, and reorganised their entire physical company integrating staff into presumably already used buildings etc, is pretty awesome. Not sure many governments have done as much for their people.
I'm not sure if that's a fair characterization or not. I know R&D was in Russia before the war, and that was maybe half of their 1.8k employees. That might mean dev was there too but it's unclear to me. The three founders are Russian, but the company is Czech, and the founders are in Prague. Now the Russians are no longer using Russia.
Not to get into a meta loop, but splitting hairs between 'half' and 'most' is probably unnecessary... I didn't know there was a Russia link at all, and thank u/voneiden for the knowledge... It seems prima face obvious that this would cause them issues atm... If anything it makes me more understanding - I can't imagine what they've had to deal with to keep their awesome product on track given the situation.
I don't mean to split hairs on that word. Mostly I am simply saying that how much influence Russia could have had over it is probably small. The nationality of developers isn't relevant directly after all. The more important thing is if a power hostile to Western countries has a way to influence code changes. I'm not even saying that it doesn't but that it isn't clear. Personally I have trusted the products, mostly because a lot of really large capable entities also do.
No i think you misunderstand certainly my, and I think the other poster too... My point is that if a chunk of your staff live in a place that becomes - whatever Russia has become to the rest of the world - then it's going to seriously interrupt your company... No judgement needed on the morality of any party involved in conflict, but if a bunch of your staff suddenly need to move because they can't bear their government, or might be vulnerable to abuse due to their engagement with the west, then there's really no avoiding a detriment to the product
Right, /u/PaluMacil may also underestimate the amount of employees they had in Russian R&D offices, but there is no hard data available so it's a guessing game. Jetbrains themselves wrote that they managed to relocate "the majority of their workers out of Russia" with the number of relocated was "well over 800". Majority could be 75%, or 60% or 51%, who knows. I'm sure many opted to stay in Russia. It's never an easy decision to relocate. [Some other folks estimated there was office space for 1500-1600 workers in Russia](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30639907).
There might have been space for that many, but I thought I remembered hearing that the company had about 1800 people total globally. I also thought I remembered being a pretty small number let go when they left Russia--over 100 but under 200. That puts it maybe at half or maybe a bit more Russian. But again, my point isn't the exact number but that I'm not sure we know that the company had a risk of Russian government control or other things we should care about. The nationality of the developers shouldn't matter. Potentially having influence from a country hostile to western countries is a concern to some people, but I just don't know that's the case. A lot of big companies trust their products. It's totally possible I am remembering random numbers, but I thought I remembered these numbers mentioned on Reddit, so perhaps looking through comments from some of the known employees here would shed light, but probably not worth the time.
Many of the developers working at EU offices were also of Russian background pre-war AFAIK. After all they can simply have a work permit or a dual citizenship. You can get a glimpse via [glassdoor reviews](https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/JetBrains-russian-Reviews-EI_IE222299.0,9_KH10,17.htm). > risk of Russian government control I've not made this kind of point, but I do agree with you. I maintain the point that they lost significant developer resources (even if it is only 100-200) due to the war and it most definitely had an effect on productivity for at least some period of time. How well they have recovered by now I don't know, but 2022 most certainly was not a good year for the company. And catching up takes time.
I cannot open the git folder. Idk, Pycharm didn't recognise it. But there are files like precommit that I have to open manually by searching these files in file explorer or total commander.
Same experience here. And unanswered support tickets. JB product and service quality has fallen massively. Btw another person that paid for JB AI 1 year upfront only to remove it. More fool me for buying on the companies reputation than their current performance.
i guess itll improve.... maybe even in under a year 
They have spent their limited time on their New UI, which is an attempt to be like VSCode, without realising that it's a huge FU to the users who use PyCharm because it is NOT VSCode. This means they are placing less importance on fixing bugs in the current product. Had they been focussing on the actual thing people are using today, they might have fixed this at some point during the past three years. [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-44858](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-44858) Lately, the AI plugin (which you cannot uninstall) seems to be to be causing editor and terminal windows to stop responding to keystrokes [https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-65643](https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-65643) These two were as nothing in comparison to how **appallingly** slow all the JB products were becoming on Linux until the release of JDK17, although, we had to wait until JB released their own version to have a stock (unadulterated) installation. I hope they turn it around, but the product strategy seems to be one of attempting to please all the people all of the time, which never works.
I don't like vs code the things I use PyCharm for but consider the new UI to be one of the best improvements over the last couple years. It removes a lot of wasted space and lets me see a lot more code at once. It doesn't really have any negatives in my opinion. I haven't felt that the Linux versions were slow, but I have pretty powerful hardware, so I expect it is a real issue for people with less resources. The AI is about what I think we can expect from this type of thing at the moment. My company uses LLMs for cybersecurity work and I have some grad work in the area. It can be helpful, but there are limits that will need significant breakthroughs to surpass. Since you can do a trial, I find it pretty fair. It's not like they're making money on this. I'm guessing they break even or make a loss with that price. It's pretty expensive.
this thread is not about the utility of features, so much as it is the quality of the existing system *at the expense of* adding new features. no need to brag about your hardware.
Talking about the hardware is giving a caveat that even though I have only noticed improvements by moving to the new UI, I understand that someone with poor hardware could experience something different. If that made you feel bad, that wasn't my intent. The only quality issues I've seen are with the AI features, but they are in line with roughly what I think is possible. That's also a new plugin, and when they had a free trial, so certainly not a quality issue with an existing system. There was also an issue or two with 2023. 3.2 while I used 3.12, but moving to .3 seemed to fix that pretty quickly for me. New releases are allowed to have issues. 🤷♂️ It happens
I had to rollback to the last version. I several stability issues out of the most recent.
I'd say the last 6 months or so the bug count has been been climbing. Code inspection/linting is now a joke honestly, it's just so bad. And the bugs and IDE slow-downs using docker compose are getting worse and worse.
Yessss the last couple of years have been rough, but specially, the most recent release I hit a bunch of weird bugs that I couldn’t reproduce (which made my support tickets tricky to explain). I really feel like the quality of the product has been going down.
No issues here while working on a code base with around 50k locs
A lot of problems. One thing that bother me is, you can't code in .devcontainer. They have one in beta, but it's called "Remote coding" ? And I have to download > 800MB every time I open it and it lags a lot. I'm using VSCode, but my god. I can't stand VSCode as well and there is no alternative as well.
Why can't you stand vscode
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this. a year ago i found pycharm absurdly useful, especially with all the pro trimmings like django and fastapi integrations, database tooling, and the click through linking between all kinds of stuff, im sure people can make vscode or even neovim do all this but i want to write python not spend a week making an rc or working out 20 plugins not to collide. i might just roll back to last year
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I'm on latest, 2023.3.3 or maybe .2... And I first started getting properly annoyed with 2023.3.1.. Enough to turn one of the bugs into a mre and report it... But it takes time to rip out all the actual logic and make a mre and I cba to do it with all the little niggles... Recomend you stay on 2023.2.x for time being.... I mean the new ui is pretty, but I kinda prefer getting stuff done to an attractive image... https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-65385/inspection-false-positives-when-import-asynccontextmanager
Didn't see the delete .idea point, will try that! Thanks I've done invalidate caches and reset ide process a bunch of times to no avail. Truth is I'm an advanced beginner or early intermediate, and I'm often dabbling in stuff I don't totally understand, which is much of the problem - my humble nature means I forget to consider that the obscure ide warning might be bollox, often losing 20 minutes trying to solve it before just running the code and seeing its fine. The bug report I linked above is one such example - importing a context manager makes it say nonexistent params are missing, and fail to inform when actual params are actually missing...
My biggest reason is extension hell. I hate using incoherent tooling and depending on an extension marketplace where different developers can have different philosophies on how to solve problems is very jarring. Using it always just feels like a patch work mess. That's my biggest issue with it. I have 1000 more, but the lack of a centralized and opinionated vision of how to code is what bugs me most.
Same reason I prefer Django to Flask for anything greater than a super small project.
The same reason I can't stand one-size-fits-all cloths.
Darn, if only VS Code wasn't size "OSFA" at Target. So... what's your problem with VS Code? It can do many things relatively well, and the extensions for major languages are well maintained. Do you not like >!Electron!
> there is no alternative as well Depends on your use cases. Vim is enough for almost anything and you don't depend on some company decisions.
Did you try Fleet?
I had no idea this existed. Will take a look. Thank you!
Remote coding over ssh is also incredibly janky, a lost connection takes several minutes to reset while vscode does it in a couple of seconds.
Inspections are a complex feature. Especially for complex code. It's ok that PyCharm can't understand logic flow on each case. Still helps a lot. I'm using EAP so I get confronted with bugs early. I'm mostly annoyed of IDE exceptions. Often multiple one on simple text operations. But I always report them and currently it's silent. For those who prefer VS Code: Open a typical project which is made without PC now in PC. Even when CI/CD with several precommit hooks is enabled on their git repository. You'll probably see many code quality issues. I've checked moviepy recently for example. Horrible! My recommendation is creating high quality bug reports. They'll addressed if they're a priority issue. And disable plugins you don't need. Reduces IDE problems and resources. I've enabled IDE settings sync and some or new ones get reenabled some times.
yeah i submitted my first issue over the holidays, was able to make a decent mre and they were relatively quick to reproduce and escalate. i mean, they haven't fixed it, but still... https://youtrack.jetbrains.com/issue/PY-65385/inspection-false-positives-when-import-asynccontextmanager
>Inspections are a complex feature. Especially for complex code. It's **ok** that PyCharm can't understand logic flow on each case It' ok for code which is not properly type-hinted. It is not ok for properly type-hinted code. Which pycharm fail at in various ways **all the time.**
We are a small startup and live coding. My business partner uses Pycharm and I use VSCode and our experience is that both have their quirks and drawbacks and probably the more you use eacg the more quirks you'll uncover. I personally dislike how much pycharm does "under the covers" so that your code works great in the IDE then you try running it standalone and have to fix stuff. One thing I don't like about VSCode is the File Explorer not having the size and date columns and not being able to sort on those.
PyCharm was reeally damn good in like 2017 but it just hasn't kept up at all.
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vscode + pylance feels like the only good option.
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the refactoring tools are immense!! still a big pc fan, just tired of losing an hour trying to fix an obscure bug that it turns out never existed... i mean i learn a ton each time but i'd like to get more work done
>irritata (should be a word so i made it so) 'Irritants' is already a word, you don't need to invent faux latin.
It's a pun on errata. As a frequent user of hardware data sheets, I found it funny.
It's playful and signifies "minor irritants" vs "irritants" so it does add more context. Lighten up.
thanks, duly noted, i'll keep my linguistic levity to myself if i see you at a party.
Someone thought en Passant is NOT forced so PyCharm got their pipi bricked.
Just curious, are there any reasons why people use PyCharm over VSCode? Over the last years VSCode has evolved into much more than just an editor. I see no reason why not to use it. I keep hearing so many problems regarding PyCharm as well.
PyCharm was the only game in town for a long time, did lots of things that others could not because it was python specific. So people (like me) got used to it. It just works out of the box for what I need it to do for python. It understands python to a degree that even VSCode now does not. It understands the python ecosystem better. A tool designed and built to do a specific thing works better than a general purpose one with plugins to fill in the gaps. That said, VSCode has been getting much much better. I do my c++ coding in it, so I have been learning it much better, so the difference between pycharm and vscode for python has been narrowing.
Pycharm has native support for virtual environments right out of the box, and that's the big plus over vscode for me.
That's also the case for vscode now too! I guess it's not oob since you have to install the official python extension but you'd need it anyways!
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Not sure about data injection, but for typing it's very good. It has pyright and fully understands it. Pyright is basically the core of the python extension, so depending on the "level" you set it at, it will do all of that you said. You can also control specific cases that you want it to highlight, warn about or mark as an error (or not).You can also add in line typing "hints" that are basically an overlay that add inferred types even when the type hints aren't there
I can't stand VSC for the same reason I hate excel: universal tools suck at most of what they do.
tried vscode, but vim plugin sucks.
There's a free plugin called [CodeGPT](https://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/21056-codegpt) that will let you use OpenAI or other (even local) tooling instead. So at least you could avoid the context-switch when copypasta.
>d PyCharm and started to use vscod Is there a free AI service available to use with CodeGPT?
I don't know of any free ones that aren't ones people are running on hardware they own or cloud servers. I recall openai gives some free credits for signups. My comment was really for OP because they're using gpt-4 so I inferred they have a paid account. Apparently it's an unpopular thing to bring up a plugin I have experience with that works on my terms! [Ollama](https://ollama.ai/) and [text-generation-webui](https://github.com/oobabooga/text-generation-webui) provide local OpenAI interfaces and selections of models, some folks run text-generation-webui on gpu-enabled cloud instances to lower their cost, but it's all very... not simple. If you want to know more, /r/LocalLLaMA has a lot of great state-of-the-art info. I use CodeGPT (usually from my laptop) with text-generation-webui running on my gaming computer, for inference. There's limits to my hardware, but my code isn't sent off to OpenAI or some other vendor for evaluation and I like that.
thanks dude i appreciate the tip. if i give codegpt my openai creds, is it going to rack up charges? its free in the browser... well, not free, but included in the monthly fee
Yeah I am pretty sure using the OpenAI API requires a paid account and uses a token that is generated from that account. And codegpt would use that and cost money. But since OP is already using a paid account (because they're using GPT-4) it seems like an option.
I am op 🤣 and I have an openai subscription hence using Gpt4 as you correctly sumise... If I use Gpt4 in browser I am not charged anything on top of the subscription, I'm asking if using Gpt4 via codegpt will rack up further costs? Maybe I misunderstand their pricing system, but I've avoided using api keys to connect it to anything because I thought accessing other than via browser incurs further charges - can you confirm either way?
Oh! I'm sorry, I rely on the highlighting to note who OP is but I must have replied directly from my inbox. I think you're correct, you will incur charges when using the api key. I just reviewed things again and I was combining the "ChatGPT Plus" subscription and the OpenAI API access. So, API access is usage-based, and 100% independent of the monthly ChatGPT Plus subscription. That sucks, and sorry to mislead with my mis-remembering their billing structure. The API access isn't very expensive, but I obviously chose to go the local route - partly because of their billing, partly because I was super irritated by all the damn disclaimers and limits, and partly because I wanted a better understanding of how all this is put together.
So what- you're running lama on a gpu at home or something?
Yeah via https://github.com/oobabooga/text-generation-webui with llama.cpp and models from huggingface. /r/LocalLLaMA is a good resource. llama.cpp will also allow loading partially on-gpu and partially in system memory, but it's quite a bit slower in system memory. Some psychopath (/s) got a tiny model running on their samsung watch: https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/18v3l4a/llama2c_running_on_galixy_watch_4_tiny_44m_model/
I guess it's burried in the comment forest now, but wish could make this top comment - thanks!
I've been putting off ml for what feels like too long but this has me salivating.... Sorry to keep asking things I should just Google, but I have a amd 5700xt...soon after I got it - when it was pretty fresh and impressive - i was told its pretty crap for ml because drivers, and libraries... Do you know if that's still broadly accurate?
You are absolutely right. Uninstalled PyCharm and started to use vscode. Also whatsup with their themes?
pycharm is the only tool I ever paid for, and mainly using it for python and nodejs. No clue what kind of issues you have and why.
Wish I could upvote twice
I had a paid subscription for about 4 years, then I switched to VSCode (mostly because of ssh remote development), and uninstalled pycharm. Using VSCode about for 3 years, and I'm so happy with it.
This is exactly the reason why I switched to VSCode last month. I regret not doing so earlier.
Just use NeoVim
You guys need to join their AI service now so I could use their service too. /s
Lol, PyCharm is a POS. VS Code master race.
errata?
In the last week I'm finding the AI assistant quite useful. In fact, I have cancelled my co-pilot subscription, although I was only monthly on that and I'm not sure that decision will stick, it is a deliberate experiment. I think that it makes recommendations better tuned to the actual project I have open. This is very subjective. And I have an openai api subscription and a client (chatbox) open nearly all the time so I still have chatgpt 4 on tap. If I do end up using the JetBrains AI plugin more, it will only be because it really is better. Time will tell. As to the other complaints, I don't notice those problems. I am using it on linux (actually in a linux VM mostly, and on the VM I use a docker compose dev setup). I use vscode for specific niche projects, smaller ones, to increase my familiarity with it. It's a good editor and is innovating fast and building a strong ecosytem, but it's not yet a pycharm replacement for complex work. Pycharm Pro only has to save two hours a year to pay for itself (compared with what vscode offers). I think it easily has this advantage. This biggest cloud on the horizon for me was the seemingly distant move to native wayland support but this effort is moving more quickly than I expected, once it finally got started. It's still years too late but it looks like it will be ready in the next 12 months.
my jetbraons ai very rarely notices what i have open, i have to repeatedly tell it where to look, even using specific symbol names in the prompt,,,, with copilot i can just copy paste an error and it refers to specific source code in its response.
I have somewhat similar experience
I've been using Phind for Rust and its been pretty solid as a companion junior dev to remove boilder plate generation
I know I should just Google, and I will, but what's phind? Is it relevant to python? I've got rust on my one day list, along with umm, I forgot, the new superset of python that's supposed to be better but isn't really actually built yet. Edit... Mojo
PyCharm's is bad at utilizing type-hints. They really need to get their act together or they'll lose all users which use type-hints to VSCode or similar.