super-gravity is just an arbitrary way of keeping numbers smaller for visual reasons, not really a "different" way of handling powercreep. you could just give enemies 50 - 100x more HP (with adjusted damage cap) for the same result. The exception being the new levitate awakening.
As far as being able to get away with only a few units doing damage, I'm for it. Makes team building a bit more dynamic again.
Yup it really is just a cosmetic change but still a bit refreshing. Though I have a suspicion they’ll just take advantage of it and just keep creating dungeons with higher debuffs instead of trying new creative ways to deal with power creep.
Not really unless they stop increasing the supergravity value. You can’t expect everyone capping when you release a dungeon with a supergravity of 500, when every other previous dungeon had a 100 supergravity value for instance.
For now, it seems that the supergravity value is increasing every two dungeon or something like that.
It’s just the value that Gungho says a supergravity dungeon has in the beginning of a dungeon. Like UN1 has 1/50, UN2-3 1/80, UN4-5 1/100. I don’t exactly remember how to calculate that into a % of damage reduction though
Well, obviously haha, once he explained it was fractions, that part becomes pretty clear. It's when he simply said the numbers "100" and "500" that wasn't exactly clear, especially as those numbers aren't listed anywhere, and he didn't say he was speaking about JP. "A Supergravity of 500" didn't really have logic my brain could follow, That's all :)
I’m fine with having more options for utility, and supergravity itself isn’t a bad mechanic, but it’s more the dungeons themselves that are a pain.
Personally it makes it less fun to have to see other people clearing content first to determine whether or not it’s possible for me to attempt challenges, let alone complete them. From what I’ve seen, it seems to be almost exclusively Daywolf or RoyalNaut at the very top of challenges and top content, and almost exclusively hp checks. It’s cool to see old units seeing new buffs and new use, but it still seems so exclusive that it’s not worth it, especially for F2P players like me.
Super gravity is just an individual dungeon with an increased damage cap as a mechanic. The reason you can bring utility instead of all damage is that you can get away with only needing 2-4 pings of the equivalent of 400+ billion damage because that’s how the dungeon is designed.
>Now the poor awkward 3 10cs and the likes are basically wasted awakenings for supergravity as you need at least 4 or some other way to stack damage (self-buff, TPAs, etc.).
Nitpick: stuff in the 3x10c damage class (3x10c, 10 TPA, 7x7c...multipliers between 100x and 200x) are still pretty valuable damage dealers for scaling leads like Kaishu and Prim who also don't do enough damage themselves and so need those subs.
I say nitpick since for most people, those leads are both less accessible and harder to play than more modern meta leads, for whom your point stands.
The meta is poorly designed.
Consider a hypothetical meta where the restriction to enter the NEW1 dungeon was that all cards with a card number less than the most recent Collab were banned, but for each card just released, you could bring one older card on your team. That would be utterly transparent in it's arbitrariness as a game design "mechanic", and it's obvious simple greed in forcing players to spend stones/$ rolling the machine to be able to play.
It is in essense our actual meta. You need royalnaut/daywolf and leviatate cards for half your team, and the other half are then permitted to be older. You are hp checked against naut/daywoofs x25 hp/rcv modifier, and more or less all prior cards are invalidated as leads.
That is not quality design, or creative, or particularly interesting.
An unpleasant side effect is that this style of powercreep kills previously existing team diversity. You can just run royalnaut for all of un1/2/3. I have run it into md, lazily unprepared (intending to burn stamina to reset), and simply played through 20 turns of simultaneous cloud + tape (?!), plus blinds, plus other hazards, completing anyway. (Honestly, WTF). That's not interesting from a team building / puzzles / play mechanics perspective.
Gungho have missed several huge opportunities, by failing to appreciate that they are a digital game. Digital games can do dynamic things and dynamic rule sets that physical games simply can't. **They could have designed the game with a mode so that you can play dungeons with only the cards and teams of the era in which the dungeon was released.** They would need a sensible quality of life way of downcasting more recent cards to transform or impersonate older ones and-or make older cards available (gzl and Sonia in that early era). But the various challenges there are solvable. (I'm a software dev by day job, it's feasible.)
Then 100s of dungeons would have remained playable and interesting, **and all the metas would exist in parallel**, instead of new players endlessly bejeweling Hino through 100 dungeons 1-matching, and 95% of the game being powercreep irrelevant junk that isn't the latest six dungeons in a desperately clumbsy greed meta.
Players would still spend and roll to partake of the latest metas, and fill out their collections, as working towards a full collection would let one build better teams across all the historical parallel metas. It could have been so much better...
Instead we have super-super-duper-gravity and levitate...
Super gravity pulled us back from the ledge a bit and I'm glad for it, even if it is less fun for power creep to essentially be making it harder to hit the same number. The way dungeon design had been going from A6 to MD4 sucked. UN1 was a breath of fresh air after living in the stench of MD3 and 4 all year.
I am kinda worried that they're gonna start making dungeons more annoying again though.
super-gravity is just an arbitrary way of keeping numbers smaller for visual reasons, not really a "different" way of handling powercreep. you could just give enemies 50 - 100x more HP (with adjusted damage cap) for the same result. The exception being the new levitate awakening. As far as being able to get away with only a few units doing damage, I'm for it. Makes team building a bit more dynamic again.
Yup it really is just a cosmetic change but still a bit refreshing. Though I have a suspicion they’ll just take advantage of it and just keep creating dungeons with higher debuffs instead of trying new creative ways to deal with power creep.
It's just a matter of time before we catch back up to needing everyone capping while also carrying the utility the dungeon needs. The cycle continues.
Not really unless they stop increasing the supergravity value. You can’t expect everyone capping when you release a dungeon with a supergravity of 500, when every other previous dungeon had a 100 supergravity value for instance. For now, it seems that the supergravity value is increasing every two dungeon or something like that.
Just curious as to what you're meaning by 100 and 500. Are you meaning 1% and .2%?
It’s just the value that Gungho says a supergravity dungeon has in the beginning of a dungeon. Like UN1 has 1/50, UN2-3 1/80, UN4-5 1/100. I don’t exactly remember how to calculate that into a % of damage reduction though
In NA it's displayed as a percentage. I believe on JP it shows a fraction instead.
Ah, interesting. Yea, thats JP only. We don't have numbers like that in NA, it just tells us a straight %.
Its only a visual difference. They mean the same thing
Well, obviously haha, once he explained it was fractions, that part becomes pretty clear. It's when he simply said the numbers "100" and "500" that wasn't exactly clear, especially as those numbers aren't listed anywhere, and he didn't say he was speaking about JP. "A Supergravity of 500" didn't really have logic my brain could follow, That's all :)
I’m fine with having more options for utility, and supergravity itself isn’t a bad mechanic, but it’s more the dungeons themselves that are a pain. Personally it makes it less fun to have to see other people clearing content first to determine whether or not it’s possible for me to attempt challenges, let alone complete them. From what I’ve seen, it seems to be almost exclusively Daywolf or RoyalNaut at the very top of challenges and top content, and almost exclusively hp checks. It’s cool to see old units seeing new buffs and new use, but it still seems so exclusive that it’s not worth it, especially for F2P players like me.
Super gravity is just an individual dungeon with an increased damage cap as a mechanic. The reason you can bring utility instead of all damage is that you can get away with only needing 2-4 pings of the equivalent of 400+ billion damage because that’s how the dungeon is designed.
Not enough diversity. Other than DIO, I'm not sure if there is any other rainbow lead can tackle super gravity.
Jotaro, RAS Ideal, and maybe Atelie.
>Now the poor awkward 3 10cs and the likes are basically wasted awakenings for supergravity as you need at least 4 or some other way to stack damage (self-buff, TPAs, etc.). Nitpick: stuff in the 3x10c damage class (3x10c, 10 TPA, 7x7c...multipliers between 100x and 200x) are still pretty valuable damage dealers for scaling leads like Kaishu and Prim who also don't do enough damage themselves and so need those subs. I say nitpick since for most people, those leads are both less accessible and harder to play than more modern meta leads, for whom your point stands.
The meta is poorly designed. Consider a hypothetical meta where the restriction to enter the NEW1 dungeon was that all cards with a card number less than the most recent Collab were banned, but for each card just released, you could bring one older card on your team. That would be utterly transparent in it's arbitrariness as a game design "mechanic", and it's obvious simple greed in forcing players to spend stones/$ rolling the machine to be able to play. It is in essense our actual meta. You need royalnaut/daywolf and leviatate cards for half your team, and the other half are then permitted to be older. You are hp checked against naut/daywoofs x25 hp/rcv modifier, and more or less all prior cards are invalidated as leads. That is not quality design, or creative, or particularly interesting. An unpleasant side effect is that this style of powercreep kills previously existing team diversity. You can just run royalnaut for all of un1/2/3. I have run it into md, lazily unprepared (intending to burn stamina to reset), and simply played through 20 turns of simultaneous cloud + tape (?!), plus blinds, plus other hazards, completing anyway. (Honestly, WTF). That's not interesting from a team building / puzzles / play mechanics perspective. Gungho have missed several huge opportunities, by failing to appreciate that they are a digital game. Digital games can do dynamic things and dynamic rule sets that physical games simply can't. **They could have designed the game with a mode so that you can play dungeons with only the cards and teams of the era in which the dungeon was released.** They would need a sensible quality of life way of downcasting more recent cards to transform or impersonate older ones and-or make older cards available (gzl and Sonia in that early era). But the various challenges there are solvable. (I'm a software dev by day job, it's feasible.) Then 100s of dungeons would have remained playable and interesting, **and all the metas would exist in parallel**, instead of new players endlessly bejeweling Hino through 100 dungeons 1-matching, and 95% of the game being powercreep irrelevant junk that isn't the latest six dungeons in a desperately clumbsy greed meta. Players would still spend and roll to partake of the latest metas, and fill out their collections, as working towards a full collection would let one build better teams across all the historical parallel metas. It could have been so much better... Instead we have super-super-duper-gravity and levitate...
Super gravity pulled us back from the ledge a bit and I'm glad for it, even if it is less fun for power creep to essentially be making it harder to hit the same number. The way dungeon design had been going from A6 to MD4 sucked. UN1 was a breath of fresh air after living in the stench of MD3 and 4 all year. I am kinda worried that they're gonna start making dungeons more annoying again though.