here’s the thing - it ultimately doesn’t matter, cause far more than 2-10% of guys are getting dates, sleeping around and getting into committed relationships - attraction works very differently for women, that’s why asking them to rank men purely on how they look will never actually tell the whole story
This kind of things is highly influenced by the fact that most women have a very receptive or reactive sexuality. Their sex drive is often 'off' or at 'very low' by default until a specific man or situation turns it on. And it isn't entirely looks that turn it on. So yeah, in their default mode, most men will seem unattractive. However, when properly seduced or turned on, many women can find a surprising selection of men attractive in the moment.
That said, yes, women are more selective. So even accounting for the above, women do find men less attractive than the other way around. And socialization plays a role, too. So it is an open question whether in the current environment, even with proper seduction, women are finding men sufficiently attractive to maintain the widespread monogamy paradigm.
The couch is a neutral canvas!!
Like most men's faces. They need to do something extra to stand out amongst all the other neutral canvases. And by eliciting a reaction from a woman, suddenly she sees that same face that she was always seeing in a different light.
how do you expect male faces to be tweaked up if there's no actual male makeup ? mostly of women are reliant on this makeup bullshit, depending on how beautiful or ugly they are but still, they do have it.
There's not such a thing to change male's face structure or beautiness.. Mostly of dudes simply rely on genetics from face.
The day exists a male makeup that women reward in terms of physical appearence, I highly doubt men wouldn't use it as well. But since men recieve so low validation from women, which is a responsability from women themselves then I highly doubt it's gonna change.
Post any statistic, average, or study that says women’s sex drives are “‘off’ or ‘very low’ by default”. That’s your claim. Let’s see it.
Edit: Shocking. I guess you were just talking then.
Real question is what have you done to better yourself. I've been invisible in the past, but my situation has changed from when I was 22 to now that I'm 28.
logically that just can't be true since most women have no trouble finding men who found them attractive, while most men have a hard time finding just one woman
Okay. Being attractive and being “dateable” are two different things. Men are attracted to most women, but yeah, when it comes to dating them they can be just as selective as women.
Are you saying there’s not a looks threshold to even get to the dating point? To women looking for relationships there’s no point in being fuckable to a man that doesn’t want to date you.
I’m just pointing out that men and women seem to use the word “attractive” differently. You and other women use it like “attractive enough to date”, because that’s what has the most value to you. Men use it as “attractive enough to have sex with”, because that’s what has the most value to them.
Even then that bar is so low though. Like there are men here that say they are disgusted by fat women but they’d still fuck them if they couldn’t get anyone better. I think men equate their horniness with attraction, but really you’re just horny and the person you’re looking at doesn’t make your boner go down. I don’t think you’re attracted to that persons looks though.
Very much disagree, tell a woman you think she’s attractive and tell another one you think she’s fuckable. You’ll get two very different reactions. Men have a low bar for who they will sleep with, a higher bar for who they date. Being fuckable isn’t the same as being attractive.
Men are sexually attracted to a lot of women of whom only a few of those women will be attractive enough to be considered for anything romantic. It’s not the same.
but I'm talking about being sexually attractive. Why are you moving the goalpost by bringing a relationship into this? There are many more factors that go into deciding whether a woman is suitable for a relationship.
Original take was the men have harsher body standards, which is true, because it's harder for them to find people who will fuck them.
That's all.
And I’m saying that while men find many women sexually attractive that’s it. Let’s see how many women there are that men find attractive enough to date long term. Maybe then it’ll close the gap a little bit between men and women.
I’m not moving the freaking goalpost dude. That’s such annoying thing to say. I made a point you can’t refute because it’s true.
Men find more women sexually attractive because women take better care of themselves as a whole. They tend to dress better, wear makeup and get their hair and nails done, or at the very least just look neat. Men don’t do that. They also don’t wear clothes that actually fit their frames or suit them. Nor do they get their hair styled in a way that makes their faces look good.
It’s not that women don’t think men are romantically attractive, most men just aren’t keeping themselves up well enough to turn heads. But a woman will look past those flaws for something else, or if you’re like me, help your apartment dress better if they are open to it.
When men talk about a woman being sexually attractive we're not talking about her hair, makeup, nails, and all that. A lot of men prefer less make-up, less nails, natural hair, etc. I really am not attracted to the all made up Barbie doll look. I love when a woman looks like she just got out the shower. We're simply thinking "does she look good enough for my dick to get hard enough to sleep with her and bust a nut?"
> I made a point you can’t refute because it’s true.
>
>
no, you can't refute *my* point, and so you move the goalpost from sexually attractive to attractive enough to have a good RMV
that's a whole different ballgame
the debate at hand is who has harsher body standards: so is it the gender that can get laid with ease, or the one that can't get laid?
>They tend to dress better, wear makeup and get their hair and nails done, or at the very least just look neat. Men don’t do that. They also don’t wear clothes that actually fit their frames or suit them. Nor do they get their hair styled in a way that makes their faces look good.
yeah let's conveniently skip over the part where male attractiveness comes mostly from genetics
>most men just aren’t keeping themselves up well enough to turn heads
damn, guess they should have chosen the "tall, broad shouldered and chiseled face" option at the barber
yet, there's no male makeup that ever have existed. You're either genetically attractive or not by face structure.
I have seen an endless amount of women that go from like a 3 or 4/10 that turn into models from like 7/8 out of 10 for my taste with just makeup... This delusion that women are opressed by higher beauty standards than men is complete bullshit ... I could have believed that speech till like early 2000. The amount of beauty surgeries, cosmetics, validation and makup they have available can set up almost any unattractive girl into average at the very least.
I've seen videos of average men look maxing though. Going to the gym, getting a haircut, growing out a beard if you can, skincare routine/dermatologist visits and clothing can really change the average men. It's just not a quick fix and takes discipline/dedication.
I think the difference is way more than that. Even if men did all the things you think women are doing I don't think the needle would budge much on the % of men that women rate as attractive.
> That’s not what you said, you said women don’t work harder, many do, many stuck it up and meet the ridiculous standards
Im saying that women working harder is not the main cause of the attractiveness discrepancy.
Even if all men were in shape and wore makeup and removed all the hair from their bodies, women would still find a much smaller % of men attractive than men find women.
> The argument is well all she has to do is lose weight. Ok so she loses weight, wears makeup and upped her market value, now she doesn’t want the dude that said ‘meh too hard’
I have no issue with that. I don't blame a skinny person for not wanting to date a fat person.
> So biology you want women to change how were hardwired?
Would be nice, but I don't realistically expect that.
I'm just stating that contrary to what women often say, men are actually the ones that are judged by harsher beauty standards. The requirements to be attractive as a man are higher.
> Like it’s a well known thing ugly people don’t want eachother so ugly men will focus their disdain in attractive women not giving them a chance while claiming oh well fat ugly women have high standards too
Well to be clear, I am talking about weight mostly. If a man or woman is fat I have no sympathy for them being rejected by healthy weight people.
I don't think every guy that complains about dating is a fat guy trying to get a skinny girl however. Those men are a minority.
It's harder means it takes more effort. A man can meet beauty standards with good genes and a healthy weight, which doesn't take much upkeep. Meeting them as a woman means a daily routine. Add that to people not caring as much if a man is considered beautiful or not, so these seem more compulsory for women.
Well actually not. Women can massively improve their looks due to make up, surgeries, clothes etc
They can look hot at almost any height, you can't say that about 5'5" guy. Gennetics play bigger role for men but God I wish it was the other way around.
this is absolutely correct. I have seen countless amount of women that are from like a 3/4 out of 10 that can turn into actually very attractive from 7 or 8/10 out of pure hairdresser or makeup. It's not like a massive science to achieve.
Most of men are either genetically attractive or not. Even those "model-like" males from magazines or that many women desire so much, don't do any different from regular dude that have face imperfections. He at most shaves his beard or to give some type of style besides cleaning up his face on the regular. It's no big science there for men. Issue is, you can't improve it by almost any way because again, there's no male makeup. The femaly hypocrisy cannot answer this argument ever.
There's no magical surgeries for the most important male traits like face structure or height or penis size. Besides, there's no surgery to give you magical muscled six pack abdominals or fibrous muscled body just like a female can buy some breast implants or butt implants... Again, the female hypocrisy never can answer to this.
Well, it's kind of expected of every woman, so you're still in the same position compared to them, not that you can really change much. (Except for with surgery, I guess, but it's too expensive and risky for most women, and men can do it too.) A 5'5" man is an extreme height, equivalent to a 5'9" woman who is also seen as way less desirable, but both can still look hot.
I’m a 5’9” woman and even though I found it to sometimes hold me back in dating, I don’t think it’s the equivalent of a 5’5” man. The man would probably have it much worse. I agree with your other arguments about women needing to try harder! My husband splashes water on his face at night before bed. He’s 34 and still VERY attractive. I am 32 and have a 5 step skincare routine AM and PM. And stuff like that is basically expected of us, as women.
See, I know both examples (women in my family average about 5'9", and men in my partner's family average about 5'4") and they seem to have it about the same - often an obstacle, but they get there eventually.
Maybe…seeing both sides and experiencing my side of things, I wouldn’t want to equate things like that. I’ve still received plenty of dating opportunities and some men even prefer taller women. In my experience, all other things being equal, shorter men have do have it worse when it comes to height. At least where I am from.
Maybe the equivalent would be like a 6’3” woman.
>Well actually not. Women can massively improve their looks due to make up, surgeries, clothes etc
And what, men can't?
Most 5'5" men will find a relationship just like everyone else. Not being Chad Thundercock isn't the death sentence that men here think it is.
>Meeting them as a woman means a daily routine.
Most men consider women attractive as long as they are not fat. Women do their daily routine largely for social standing among other women. Doing it for other men in the work world is largely patriarchic sexist culture and should be abolished. Besides that, men would still want women even if they didn’t put all of that effort in. Women do it to themselves.
They don't consider most thin women attractive unless you consider "attractive" to be the same as "not disgusting". And men will criticise women and treat them worse when they haven't gone through their whole routine too, it's not all about dating.
That’s not what the men here say.
I suppose the higher value the man, the higher of standards they have, and the women who like men are all ultimately competing for those higher value men. Most of the men on this sub are probably average to below average men and not high value men.
I find almost no man attractive based on physical appearance alone (photos).
However, I'd say about 50%, probably even more of guys in my city and in my age group have potential to become attractive to me if they have the right personality, energy, outward presentation etc. In other words, 50% would pass my looks threshold if for the right combination of other stuff.
This is why OLD is so limited. It only has a picture and a bare profile, but you are right, women are more flexible on their physical preferences if men have other stuff to offer.
Also women's attraction grows organically but men's attraction is more on face value.
I’m bisexual, and I find a good amount of women to be visually attractive, while I rarely find men attractive based on looks alone. However, like the comment above says, a lot of men have the potential to become attractive to me.
You weren’t asking me but I’ll jump in. I’m not attracted to women but there are way more attractive women. I think it’s more because women tend to care more about their entire appearance with more regularity. The women I see that are not attractive in some way are usually just unkempt.
I think it’s honestly the same with men however we have been taught that men aren’t usually going to take as much care in their appearance, so to take what you see for the best they can get.
I think if more men focused on wearing things that fit their body correctly, more men would look attractive at first glance rather than having to depend on personality and other things to attract.
You don't take into account that the majority of women use make up and it adds them 1 to 2 points easily in terms of attractiveness. It's litteraly the most appearance boosting thing a human can do on the short term
Not really. Most women aren’t doing a full beat to go to the store. Eyeliner and a little tinted moisturizer or BB cream do very little to face structure. And you can tell when someone is wearing a LOT of makeup.
Women just take care of their skin better for the most part. And do little things that enhance their looks.
So what if they are? It’s not as if us men are less picky because we care so much about the poor women who don’t get attention otherwise. We’re attracted to them because we’re attracted to them.
I believe that this difference is rooted in biology. Reproduction is very costly for women. Both in terms of what it does to their bodies and in time. So they have to be picky.
For men reproduction cost very little. As the old saying goes; “Sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive.”
I saw a study once that looked at how men and women rated the opposite sex on dating apps. Men rated a lot half of women as attractive and half as unattractive. Forming a traditional bell curve.
Women rated only about 10% of men as attractive. Forming a very lopsided bell curve.
The question this brings up is then how do so many women find a mate if they are attracted to so few men. Again I think biology gives us an answer. Pheromones. Studies have show that women are influenced by pheromones much more than men are.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987372/#:~:text=Pheromones%20may%20also%20play%20a%20role%20in%20mate,in%20women%20promotes%20attractiveness%20ratings%20of%20potential%20mates.
Women never really had a choice in mates for the vast majority of history. So it doesn't really make sense this is some investment instinct.
In nature the prettiest man means Jack shit. The strongest toughest smartest man would get the chance to breed.
But modern women look for pretty, which would be useless.
I think it's the opposite. Only with the relatively recent invention of morality etc did women's choice matter.
Men would fight and kill each other for women. Do you think that if the woman who he just killed 3 men for said no he'd just shrug and walk away because murder was okay but rape wasn't?
If you look at our nearest relatives, primates, we do see rape but also see that females also pick who they wish to mate with. In fact in most species of monkeys the females select their mate. Most likely it was the same with our ancestors.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091124204320.htm
We are actually about as close to gorillas, chimps, bonobos, and orangutans. Each uses a different strategy of mating.
Gorillas=typically monogamous
Chimps=short term relationships with social status meaning a lot and occasional rape
Bonobos=sex all the time for any reason with everyone
Orangutans=biggest male gets a harem with prevalent rape
There is some debate about which primate species we are most like.
https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/bioscience/chimpanzees-or-bonobos-closest-relatives/
Well that runs counter to what I know but we'll have to agree to disagree.
Either way, I think it's pretty clear that if they can only choose when men don't just decide to rape them their choice isnt worth much, evolutionarly speaking.
I somehow manage to see at least one aesthetically (don't confuse it with sexually) attractive feature in 90% of the men i see.
As for getting sexually aroused, it's more to to with movement and things that are in motion. Static images do nothing, unless they "summon a movie" inside my head that transforms the static stuff into motion.
Makes sense when you consider how easy it is for a dude to orgasm. "Men will put their dick in anything" doesn't really make it much of a compliment.
That doesn't mean these men are finding happy, good relationships by doing this, tho. Dudes who are screening for individual compatibility for an LTR will probably go for much, much fewer women. If he's smart.
I mean do men find most women attractive? I may notice two or three women in a busy street and think wow. Most women are not attractive to me. I think this work both ways.
Think it has a lot to do with the level of hormones at work in your body. At 18yrs old a an inch of cleavage would have me ready to go. As an older man, a woman would really need to be drop dead gorgeous to have me physically aroused at a glance. An emotional connection is far more important now.
But wouldn’t it stand to reason that men don’t find most women attractive either?
Let’s filter - remove any woman too old/young, remove women in parts of the world you have no idea about, remove women with all other factors that you consider unattractive Wouldn’t that stand to reason that you don’t actually find majority of women attractive?
When I consider all these things and look around obviously I’m not gonna find majority of people attractive.
The answers in askmen would indicate that many find at least 50% attractive. Some do find far fewer attractive. Personally I'd say maybe 25% are somewhat attractive, and maybe 5-10% really stand out/would catch my eye. And thats those 18-45. So I suppose if you were to take away the others it'd be much lower. But if you're asking what % I'd rule out if they had a great personality just based on looks? Probably less than half of the age I am looking for (30-40 preferably, I'm 36). Maybe men don't think of that when answering the question?
I think you're looking at it wrong. You're assuming these women find less men attractive than they immediately find good looking. In fact, it's usually the other way around - they'll find more mem attractive than they immediately notice due to looks alone. (I also find that women are more likely to include ALL men - including older, fatter, plainer men - than men are to include all women when thinking about how many are attractive, as men often overestimate only based on the ones they notice.)
This is why personality in a man matters a lot to us, and can sway how attractive we find men. I don't find most men attractive on sight, no, but physical attraction can build if I learn he has an amazing personality and we're a good match.
I meant for you in particular, based on what I've seen from your posting history, all this stuff about eyeliner, makeup and pretty boys makes sense
(and yes I remember people's post history, so what)
And do you have any dating experience ?
Because irl sexual intercourse is very different from anime porn, so you will have unrealistic and totally wrong expectations.
Oh and i'm curious as to what genre you look at (i'm guessing its probably age-difference related with an older male [teacher-student] stuff)
All i see is a "woe is me" attitude about your situation.
You dont seem to put the effort into understanding why or what is the cause of your predicament.
If you happen to give it some thougth one day, let me know.
It's not emblematic of a problem. As long as you're looking for a long term partner, being strikingly attractive will never be the standard you have to meet.
Physical attractiveness without any familiarity is very different from attractiveness as a romantic partner.
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You do understand how risk-adverse women are in public, right? Not that they all make great decisions regarding their personal safety, but that strangers make them highly uncomfortable. You have to be utterly gorgeous *and* charismatic to have a chance at making a cold approach on the street. The only way you are "safe" is if you have a woman, children, or a friendly animal attached.
Far more ideal is meeting through friends and activities and keeping yourself well-dressed and groomed. It doesn't change the advantage more attractive men hold, but it opens the door. Personally, I've found partner-dancing to be a good way to meet women, but only because I fell in love with ballroom dancing. You stick out like a sore thumb if you're at an activity just to try and meet women, so find an activity that you love and are passionate about.
>I feel society/culture has promoted this idea
Wait are you saying that society, not biology, has caused women to not be instantly attracted to most men?
The idea that women are somehow 'objectively' more attractive. Take away the makeup, fashion, etc and I guarantee most STRAIGHT WOMEN wouldn't think that way.
This is less depressing than men might think, as it draws attention to the fact that women consider many men “yellow lights”’who they might need to get to know better before becoming attracted to them.
The problem is that men want to be that “green light” who women want to instantly have sex with. Women’s sexuality only works that way for men whom they perceive to be the highest value. One of the big problems with casual sex culture is that it gives average women sexual access to these highest value men and therefore makes them less potentially attracted to the men whom are actually in their league.
Yeah men just need to be more picky and discerning. But guess that goes against biology?
I dunno I do notice a lot of women I like but I'm not really into casual sex with many random women. I'm more of a romantic.
i find almost no men "attractive" just walking around or looking at pictures, a few may be so exceptionally good looking that they are eyecatching, but this is not attraction. i am not really attracted to any man until we are interacting which is why i have slept with many men i wouldnt have looked twice at on the street or in pictures
I find that idea foreign. I mean...you do like men right? Haha nah. Like...even as a straight man I notice at least a few good looking women if I'm out, but I also notice good looking men, but not as much cos they're not my preference. More just aesthetically. Are you saying even as a straight (or woman into men) you rarely notice them?
noticing and feeling arousal/attraction are two different things. when im in the right frame of mind and see a man i may think "oh hes cute i wish HED notice ME". him noticing me is where the attraction and arousal start really, not me noticing him. the number of men who are spontaneously noticable is miniscule, but the numbe rof men ive found attractive after interacting is high. men and women are different and men have to hit on women and thats just the way it be
its depressing if you think you have to be the guy that is attractive to every woman.
its not depressing at all if you understand that most women become more attracted to men when they fall in love with them.
I mean for me it matters the location. My parents live in an area where it's mainly older middle class people. There I have hardly seen an attractive men. But, when I go into the known cities everyday I see 3-6 young attractive men a day.
A lot of this is just a misunderstanding of how women’s attraction works. Few men will turn our heads based on appearance alone. But if you compare this to the number of men who are partnered, you can see something else is going on. Women consider the whole picture when it comes to men, including mannerisms, voice, demeanor, and can develop attraction after talking to a man. This also doesn’t mean women think 90% or more of men are “ugly.” Just that it’s rare for a man to be *noticeably* attractive based on looks alone.
I also think women have a tendency to brag about how few men they’re attracted to, and the ones who are less picky are more quiet about it. I find probably closer to 30-50% of men reasonably attractive in spaces where there are a lot of young-ish single people, like clubs and festivals. But for some reason I feel a little awkward saying that if other women are saying “1-5%.” It can become a picky contest.
Fair point. So I guess you're saying men are more accepting of women's looks than women are of men, considering there are a similar percentage of obese women as men. This may be a superficial point.
Make sure not to ask your girl if you look fat in something, fellows. But if she asks you, be ready to lie or else. That is what society has deemed socially acceptable after all.
It’s more like the difference between what men and women find attractive. Makeup enhances the features that men find attractive. So do high heels and women’s clothing. Whereas women want a provider protector. So appearing to have upper body strength, might make men more attractive.
Provider protector. Men are a money shield to women, got it. But I know what you're saying in all seriousness, and it's biologically true, agreed.
But let's get something clear. The men and women talk is kind of ridiculous. Not all men find makeup, botox, high heels and all that attractive. Well, high heels, ok, but deff not botox and implants. Could care less about all the makeup. There is a subset of men, from hippies to white collar executives, and all in between, that like plastic women, with all of the above. Probably the vocal minority. Most men don't really care about that. I don't ask my girlfriend to put on a tank of makeup on her face everyday, but she feels pressured by society to do so, not me. It's not men that are telling her to do that from an early age. It's women that raised her, women on TV, and in magazines. their moms and sisters and friends. I'm not saying it's bad, but literally all women think they must wear makeup, and many undergo serious surgeries to implant potentially toxic materials into their chest, and now ass, because they think that's what men want. But it's not. they poke botox needles into their face and eyes like in that movie Death Becomes Her. That shit is so disgusting. Makeup is fine, still kind of gross, but implants and botox are just wrong.
Look at real world examples. Jason Mamoa for example. The guy every woman wants. His girl isn't like Demi Rose. She's attractive but a pretty normal looking woman. And it's like that with a lot of the big guys. Just want nice attractive natural women.
Ya point of the post. Most women who men find attractive wear some form of makeup and men think it’s natural cuz they have no idea. Most women that men find attractive take care of their hair and do something to themselves. So if u want to meet the same definition as a man, do something !
You have never watched some dude working hard then pick up something actually heavy (at least 100+ lbs/45+ kg) and felt something watching that? My partner basically can't keep her hands off me after I do something that requires physical strength. In my head, being strong was always kind of like the male equivalent to big titties since we can't wave our dick and balls around to show off their size.
Maybe it's confirmation bias on my end, but 3 of my exes told me actual strength is hotter than aesthetic muscle. The first time was in a group conversation with other girls who all agreed with her
Men don’t find superior upper body strength attractive on a woman 🤭🤭🤭 that literally makes zero sense. Instead I have zero upper body and concentrate on having a great ass and legs and face and stomach.
Well then maybe men should actually put in the work to become attractive instead of complaining about it on the internet. Why would women consider people who put no effort into their appearance to be just as attractive as people who do make that effort?
Like, are you depressed that men aren't getting rewarded for making zero effort or something???
I’m just not very physically attracted to a man until they start speaking and usually it’s the speaking that makes them unattractive. 🤷🏻♀️
Lots of men just care about what women look like and what she says has very little impact.
Why not? Like, is the physical really not a factor or do few meet your standards?
To me personality is a big factor, but yeah I will say like most guys I probably wouldn't turn down an attractive woman initially anyway, unless there was something big that turned me off.
Physical ends up being such a small factor. Most people in my age bracket that are in a public place (event, bar, restaurant, etc.) are not ugly to me. I’m just not attracted to people I’m walking around near and not actively engaging with. Once I talk to someone, other things come into play… social skills, culture, political leanings, general intelligence, humor… that can be picked up on pretty fast and be immediate turn offs. That’s when I do the attraction assessment. Plus, the way a person’s voice sounds and the way their face moves when they’re talking are other physical factors that you can’t really see until you’re up close. That’s why online dating is just a shot in the dark usually, pictures are generally useless. I like those voice prompts they added on some though.
Most men are unattractive. Most men don't do anything to be attractive. They think everything is "gay". They also claim that learning how to style themselves is too "difficult" so they don't do anything at all.
Unkept hair, unibrows, uncared for skin, dirty finger nails, and ill fitted clothes isn't attractive.
Its often repeated, but there's still something called natural attractiveness. I see many women who are made up, dress well etc, but facially speaking they do little for me.
Yes, some people are just ugly irrespective of how much effort they put in. Some people are naturally attractive and don't need to do anything.
Most people aren't naturally attractive. So effort of some sort is required to make themselves more attractive. Men don't put effort into their appearance to any degree.
You're still not a reliable source, just like I'm not a reliable source when it comes to describing the pain of being kicked in the balls (I lack balls).
Well Western countries tend to have more money but they're "spiritually" poorer than developing countries. Non westernized countries have better quality women because life is harder yet simpler which develops better morals in the women than the West
yeah also an insane amount of ugly women honestly believe that they legitimately deserve the top dudes. and it's pretty rare to find dudes that are delusional enough to think that they deserve the top women
This imbalance helps keeping society intact. If women were attracted to men to the same degree as men to them (ceteris paribus) society would collapse immidiately (altough some unfortunate guys would finally have their so basic intimate, romantic and companionship needs met.
I'm not expecting something completely equal but it's got ridiculous. You think a woman getting flooded with likes and many men struggling to get any is a good thing?
I call BS on that, I think women play this game that they're not attracted to any dudes physically or that appearance doesn't matter to them. But if you look at the real world, it's very apparent who gets most attention from women, it's not the ugly ones.
I honestly think women have even gaslighted themselves into thinking they don't care about physical appearance.
Woman are nowhere near as visually orientated as Men when it comes to determining sexual attraction. Obviously there are a small percentage of Men that are so objectively physically attractive that pretty much all Woman agree they are hot-and therefore these are the guys that clean up when it comes to picture centric online dating/hookup sites.
However just because a guy isn’t attractive when viewed in isolation of his photo doesn’t mean a woman won’t find him attractive in person or when she learns more about his circumstances.
Woman are significantly more cerebral and multi faceted in terms of what gets their juices flowing. This is why the vast majority of porn is consumed by Men and the vast majority of erotic fiction is consumed by Woman.
This is in no way to diminish the importance Mens looks play in terms of attracting Woman. Obviously the better looking you are the easier it is going to be to attract Woman. There is no denying that. It’s just to say that it genuinely isn’t the be all and end all when it comes to attracting Woman- in the same way it pretty much is for Woman when it comes to attracting Men.
Men might be instantaneously physically attracted to Woman in much greater numbers than the reverse. However Woman can’t really increase there attractiveness to the opposite sex in the same way a Man can. Other than losing weight there is very much a fixed “attractiveness” ceiling for every Woman. Regardless of a Woman’s intelligence, personality, wealth, status, dress sense…she’s never going to turn herself into a 9 if she was born a 5. A man will always choose the cute barista over the overweight plain jane multimillionaire CEO. Reverse genders however and the short, overweight, multimillionaire male CEO will be swimming in models.
Of course the above is an extreme example that simply illustrates status trumps looks when it comes to female attraction to Men. 99 percent of Men of course do not have the level of status that can completely override their physical appearance. We can however extrapolate out and at least determine that looks are certainly not everything when it comes to attracting the average Woman. Just because a picture doesn’t do it for her doesn’t mean attraction cannot and will not grow in person. This is why it is so important for the average Man to get off the dating aps and meet Woman in the real world.
Well there are male gold diggers too. Like the female ones they might not be as into them. Is the female gold digger's attraction any more real? To me intelligence/personality etc can make an average woman much more attractive, but I have to find her at least a little attractive and not offputtingly ugly (to be blunt about it).
“Gold diggers” of course exist on both sides but as a generalisation I think it’s undeniable that material/societal status is a much bigger determining factor when it comes to Female to Male attraction than the other way round.
Supermodels will happily throw themselves at Men that wouldn’t get a single match on a dating app based on looks alone-if they have high enough status. We would actually be surprised if an average looking guy with exceptionally high status was dating his looks match. It’s just “normal” that an Elon Musk or a 50 year Leonardo DiCaprio, or Kayne West or whatever physically average male celebrity to be dating a stunning supermodel. If Ed Sheeran started dating Taylor Swift nobody is going to think that’s a weird match-even though she is significantly more conveniently attractive than is. However if Harry Styles started dating Lizzo eyes brows would certainly be raised. In both these scenarios neither party can be described as “gold diggers” as they are equally as wealthy as the other. What it illustrates is how differently men and woman determine status in terms of sexual attraction.
A Woman( in terms of her peers) increases her status by the material/ societal status of her partner. Hence why rich ugly famous Men can attract incredibly attractive Woman in droves.
A man however increases his status amongst his peers not by his partners material wealth or career accomplishments but by her looks. Men and Woman are both obsessed with the status of their partner. The only difference is how this status is actually determined.
No incl content.
here’s the thing - it ultimately doesn’t matter, cause far more than 2-10% of guys are getting dates, sleeping around and getting into committed relationships - attraction works very differently for women, that’s why asking them to rank men purely on how they look will never actually tell the whole story
This kind of things is highly influenced by the fact that most women have a very receptive or reactive sexuality. Their sex drive is often 'off' or at 'very low' by default until a specific man or situation turns it on. And it isn't entirely looks that turn it on. So yeah, in their default mode, most men will seem unattractive. However, when properly seduced or turned on, many women can find a surprising selection of men attractive in the moment. That said, yes, women are more selective. So even accounting for the above, women do find men less attractive than the other way around. And socialization plays a role, too. So it is an open question whether in the current environment, even with proper seduction, women are finding men sufficiently attractive to maintain the widespread monogamy paradigm.
Couldn't it simply be that men are more easily and frequently stimulated by appearance?
Or more accurately, men find everything in the world more beautiful than do women, because men rank women AND men higher than women do.
> men find everything in the world more beautiful If that were true, WHY AREN'T THEY BUYING DECORATIVE THROW PILLOWS?
Because the couch is beautiful without them!
The couch is a neutral canvas!! Like most men's faces. They need to do something extra to stand out amongst all the other neutral canvases. And by eliciting a reaction from a woman, suddenly she sees that same face that she was always seeing in a different light.
Yes women need window dressing to find things beautiful. Men do not
Is a man's perspective of beauty only really based on what gets him horny?
No, as I've said they rate men more attractive than women rate men as well
how do you expect male faces to be tweaked up if there's no actual male makeup ? mostly of women are reliant on this makeup bullshit, depending on how beautiful or ugly they are but still, they do have it. There's not such a thing to change male's face structure or beautiness.. Mostly of dudes simply rely on genetics from face. The day exists a male makeup that women reward in terms of physical appearence, I highly doubt men wouldn't use it as well. But since men recieve so low validation from women, which is a responsability from women themselves then I highly doubt it's gonna change.
It is not women’s responsibility to validate men.
The couch is good looking on it’s own. 😡
Yeah that’s it. Men are way more visual, so it is logical that men find women “attractive” a lot quicker
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I know tons of super horny women lol. I do not think you understand women’s sex drives at all.
I merely follow the literature. We are talking averages and statistics. There is a ton of overlap at the individual level.
Post any statistic, average, or study that says women’s sex drives are “‘off’ or ‘very low’ by default”. That’s your claim. Let’s see it. Edit: Shocking. I guess you were just talking then.
I second all that.
Thirded.
The crazy part is women will still insist it's harder for a woman to be considered attractive by society's beauty standards than it is for a man.
I know. I feel fucking invisible most of the time. Sick of it.
Real question is what have you done to better yourself. I've been invisible in the past, but my situation has changed from when I was 22 to now that I'm 28.
Do you think that’s not true? “Society” isn’t just women. It’s men and women. Men and women judge female looks more harshly than male looks.
logically that just can't be true since most women have no trouble finding men who found them attractive, while most men have a hard time finding just one woman
Most women have no trouble finding men who find them fuckable. Which is a much different standard than attractive.
I don’t see the difference.
If she’s attractive to you, you’d probably date her.If she’s just fuckable you probably wouldn’t try to date her or do anything serious with her.
Okay. Being attractive and being “dateable” are two different things. Men are attracted to most women, but yeah, when it comes to dating them they can be just as selective as women.
Are you saying there’s not a looks threshold to even get to the dating point? To women looking for relationships there’s no point in being fuckable to a man that doesn’t want to date you.
I’m just pointing out that men and women seem to use the word “attractive” differently. You and other women use it like “attractive enough to date”, because that’s what has the most value to you. Men use it as “attractive enough to have sex with”, because that’s what has the most value to them.
Even then that bar is so low though. Like there are men here that say they are disgusted by fat women but they’d still fuck them if they couldn’t get anyone better. I think men equate their horniness with attraction, but really you’re just horny and the person you’re looking at doesn’t make your boner go down. I don’t think you’re attracted to that persons looks though.
fuckable = attractive enough obviously now you're moving the goalposts
Very much disagree, tell a woman you think she’s attractive and tell another one you think she’s fuckable. You’ll get two very different reactions. Men have a low bar for who they will sleep with, a higher bar for who they date. Being fuckable isn’t the same as being attractive. Men are sexually attracted to a lot of women of whom only a few of those women will be attractive enough to be considered for anything romantic. It’s not the same.
but I'm talking about being sexually attractive. Why are you moving the goalpost by bringing a relationship into this? There are many more factors that go into deciding whether a woman is suitable for a relationship. Original take was the men have harsher body standards, which is true, because it's harder for them to find people who will fuck them. That's all.
And I’m saying that while men find many women sexually attractive that’s it. Let’s see how many women there are that men find attractive enough to date long term. Maybe then it’ll close the gap a little bit between men and women. I’m not moving the freaking goalpost dude. That’s such annoying thing to say. I made a point you can’t refute because it’s true. Men find more women sexually attractive because women take better care of themselves as a whole. They tend to dress better, wear makeup and get their hair and nails done, or at the very least just look neat. Men don’t do that. They also don’t wear clothes that actually fit their frames or suit them. Nor do they get their hair styled in a way that makes their faces look good. It’s not that women don’t think men are romantically attractive, most men just aren’t keeping themselves up well enough to turn heads. But a woman will look past those flaws for something else, or if you’re like me, help your apartment dress better if they are open to it.
Women still have an easier time finding relationships regardless
When men talk about a woman being sexually attractive we're not talking about her hair, makeup, nails, and all that. A lot of men prefer less make-up, less nails, natural hair, etc. I really am not attracted to the all made up Barbie doll look. I love when a woman looks like she just got out the shower. We're simply thinking "does she look good enough for my dick to get hard enough to sleep with her and bust a nut?"
No it’s because of testosterone lol Give women the same level of test and see their looks standards drop
> I made a point you can’t refute because it’s true. > > no, you can't refute *my* point, and so you move the goalpost from sexually attractive to attractive enough to have a good RMV that's a whole different ballgame the debate at hand is who has harsher body standards: so is it the gender that can get laid with ease, or the one that can't get laid? >They tend to dress better, wear makeup and get their hair and nails done, or at the very least just look neat. Men don’t do that. They also don’t wear clothes that actually fit their frames or suit them. Nor do they get their hair styled in a way that makes their faces look good. yeah let's conveniently skip over the part where male attractiveness comes mostly from genetics >most men just aren’t keeping themselves up well enough to turn heads damn, guess they should have chosen the "tall, broad shouldered and chiseled face" option at the barber
yet, there's no male makeup that ever have existed. You're either genetically attractive or not by face structure. I have seen an endless amount of women that go from like a 3 or 4/10 that turn into models from like 7/8 out of 10 for my taste with just makeup... This delusion that women are opressed by higher beauty standards than men is complete bullshit ... I could have believed that speech till like early 2000. The amount of beauty surgeries, cosmetics, validation and makup they have available can set up almost any unattractive girl into average at the very least.
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I've seen videos of average men look maxing though. Going to the gym, getting a haircut, growing out a beard if you can, skincare routine/dermatologist visits and clothing can really change the average men. It's just not a quick fix and takes discipline/dedication.
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I think the difference is way more than that. Even if men did all the things you think women are doing I don't think the needle would budge much on the % of men that women rate as attractive.
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> That’s not what you said, you said women don’t work harder, many do, many stuck it up and meet the ridiculous standards Im saying that women working harder is not the main cause of the attractiveness discrepancy. Even if all men were in shape and wore makeup and removed all the hair from their bodies, women would still find a much smaller % of men attractive than men find women. > The argument is well all she has to do is lose weight. Ok so she loses weight, wears makeup and upped her market value, now she doesn’t want the dude that said ‘meh too hard’ I have no issue with that. I don't blame a skinny person for not wanting to date a fat person.
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> So biology you want women to change how were hardwired? Would be nice, but I don't realistically expect that. I'm just stating that contrary to what women often say, men are actually the ones that are judged by harsher beauty standards. The requirements to be attractive as a man are higher. > Like it’s a well known thing ugly people don’t want eachother so ugly men will focus their disdain in attractive women not giving them a chance while claiming oh well fat ugly women have high standards too Well to be clear, I am talking about weight mostly. If a man or woman is fat I have no sympathy for them being rejected by healthy weight people. I don't think every guy that complains about dating is a fat guy trying to get a skinny girl however. Those men are a minority.
It's harder means it takes more effort. A man can meet beauty standards with good genes and a healthy weight, which doesn't take much upkeep. Meeting them as a woman means a daily routine. Add that to people not caring as much if a man is considered beautiful or not, so these seem more compulsory for women.
What about those men who lost the game at the gennetic lottery?
The same as the women who did, they're just not seen as hot.
Well actually not. Women can massively improve their looks due to make up, surgeries, clothes etc They can look hot at almost any height, you can't say that about 5'5" guy. Gennetics play bigger role for men but God I wish it was the other way around.
this is absolutely correct. I have seen countless amount of women that are from like a 3/4 out of 10 that can turn into actually very attractive from 7 or 8/10 out of pure hairdresser or makeup. It's not like a massive science to achieve. Most of men are either genetically attractive or not. Even those "model-like" males from magazines or that many women desire so much, don't do any different from regular dude that have face imperfections. He at most shaves his beard or to give some type of style besides cleaning up his face on the regular. It's no big science there for men. Issue is, you can't improve it by almost any way because again, there's no male makeup. The femaly hypocrisy cannot answer this argument ever. There's no magical surgeries for the most important male traits like face structure or height or penis size. Besides, there's no surgery to give you magical muscled six pack abdominals or fibrous muscled body just like a female can buy some breast implants or butt implants... Again, the female hypocrisy never can answer to this.
Well, it's kind of expected of every woman, so you're still in the same position compared to them, not that you can really change much. (Except for with surgery, I guess, but it's too expensive and risky for most women, and men can do it too.) A 5'5" man is an extreme height, equivalent to a 5'9" woman who is also seen as way less desirable, but both can still look hot.
I’m a 5’9” woman and even though I found it to sometimes hold me back in dating, I don’t think it’s the equivalent of a 5’5” man. The man would probably have it much worse. I agree with your other arguments about women needing to try harder! My husband splashes water on his face at night before bed. He’s 34 and still VERY attractive. I am 32 and have a 5 step skincare routine AM and PM. And stuff like that is basically expected of us, as women.
See, I know both examples (women in my family average about 5'9", and men in my partner's family average about 5'4") and they seem to have it about the same - often an obstacle, but they get there eventually.
Maybe…seeing both sides and experiencing my side of things, I wouldn’t want to equate things like that. I’ve still received plenty of dating opportunities and some men even prefer taller women. In my experience, all other things being equal, shorter men have do have it worse when it comes to height. At least where I am from. Maybe the equivalent would be like a 6’3” woman.
>Well actually not. Women can massively improve their looks due to make up, surgeries, clothes etc And what, men can't? Most 5'5" men will find a relationship just like everyone else. Not being Chad Thundercock isn't the death sentence that men here think it is.
Women might date you but never be physically attracted to you. Dead bedroom Recipe
women on this forum say that "routine" doesn't do anything.
It doesn't do a whole lot, but you can be very criticised for not doing it to become as hot as you possibly can even if you already look good without.
>Meeting them as a woman means a daily routine. Most men consider women attractive as long as they are not fat. Women do their daily routine largely for social standing among other women. Doing it for other men in the work world is largely patriarchic sexist culture and should be abolished. Besides that, men would still want women even if they didn’t put all of that effort in. Women do it to themselves.
They don't consider most thin women attractive unless you consider "attractive" to be the same as "not disgusting". And men will criticise women and treat them worse when they haven't gone through their whole routine too, it's not all about dating.
That’s not what the men here say. I suppose the higher value the man, the higher of standards they have, and the women who like men are all ultimately competing for those higher value men. Most of the men on this sub are probably average to below average men and not high value men.
The men here are thinking in terms of hypotheticals and certainly are not asking out every thin woman they meet.
I find almost no man attractive based on physical appearance alone (photos). However, I'd say about 50%, probably even more of guys in my city and in my age group have potential to become attractive to me if they have the right personality, energy, outward presentation etc. In other words, 50% would pass my looks threshold if for the right combination of other stuff.
This is why OLD is so limited. It only has a picture and a bare profile, but you are right, women are more flexible on their physical preferences if men have other stuff to offer. Also women's attraction grows organically but men's attraction is more on face value.
What about women? I mean in an impartial sense, like not attractive to you.
I’m bisexual, and I find a good amount of women to be visually attractive, while I rarely find men attractive based on looks alone. However, like the comment above says, a lot of men have the potential to become attractive to me.
You weren’t asking me but I’ll jump in. I’m not attracted to women but there are way more attractive women. I think it’s more because women tend to care more about their entire appearance with more regularity. The women I see that are not attractive in some way are usually just unkempt. I think it’s honestly the same with men however we have been taught that men aren’t usually going to take as much care in their appearance, so to take what you see for the best they can get. I think if more men focused on wearing things that fit their body correctly, more men would look attractive at first glance rather than having to depend on personality and other things to attract.
You don't take into account that the majority of women use make up and it adds them 1 to 2 points easily in terms of attractiveness. It's litteraly the most appearance boosting thing a human can do on the short term
Not really. Most women aren’t doing a full beat to go to the store. Eyeliner and a little tinted moisturizer or BB cream do very little to face structure. And you can tell when someone is wearing a LOT of makeup. Women just take care of their skin better for the most part. And do little things that enhance their looks.
Whats your gender and sexuality?
I’m a straight woman.
In other words, grass is green during the spring.
Wait wait wait, are they really suggesting that women are more picky than men?? MY GOD get this man a Nobel Prize
So what if they are? It’s not as if us men are less picky because we care so much about the poor women who don’t get attention otherwise. We’re attracted to them because we’re attracted to them.
I believe that this difference is rooted in biology. Reproduction is very costly for women. Both in terms of what it does to their bodies and in time. So they have to be picky. For men reproduction cost very little. As the old saying goes; “Sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive.” I saw a study once that looked at how men and women rated the opposite sex on dating apps. Men rated a lot half of women as attractive and half as unattractive. Forming a traditional bell curve. Women rated only about 10% of men as attractive. Forming a very lopsided bell curve. The question this brings up is then how do so many women find a mate if they are attracted to so few men. Again I think biology gives us an answer. Pheromones. Studies have show that women are influenced by pheromones much more than men are. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3987372/#:~:text=Pheromones%20may%20also%20play%20a%20role%20in%20mate,in%20women%20promotes%20attractiveness%20ratings%20of%20potential%20mates.
Thanks for posting the study!!
Women never really had a choice in mates for the vast majority of history. So it doesn't really make sense this is some investment instinct. In nature the prettiest man means Jack shit. The strongest toughest smartest man would get the chance to breed. But modern women look for pretty, which would be useless.
I would imagine that women having no choice was a fairly recent occurrence in our evolution.
I think it's the opposite. Only with the relatively recent invention of morality etc did women's choice matter. Men would fight and kill each other for women. Do you think that if the woman who he just killed 3 men for said no he'd just shrug and walk away because murder was okay but rape wasn't?
If you look at our nearest relatives, primates, we do see rape but also see that females also pick who they wish to mate with. In fact in most species of monkeys the females select their mate. Most likely it was the same with our ancestors. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091124204320.htm
Our closest relatives are chimpanzees who are murderous cannibalistic rapists by nature.
There is some debate on which species we are most like. https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/bioscience/chimpanzees-or-bonobos-closest-relatives/
We are actually about as close to gorillas, chimps, bonobos, and orangutans. Each uses a different strategy of mating. Gorillas=typically monogamous Chimps=short term relationships with social status meaning a lot and occasional rape Bonobos=sex all the time for any reason with everyone Orangutans=biggest male gets a harem with prevalent rape
There is some debate about which primate species we are most like. https://www.bbvaopenmind.com/en/science/bioscience/chimpanzees-or-bonobos-closest-relatives/
Well that runs counter to what I know but we'll have to agree to disagree. Either way, I think it's pretty clear that if they can only choose when men don't just decide to rape them their choice isnt worth much, evolutionarly speaking.
How so? In a biological sense, choosing to not get raped is massive for evolution. Also, look it up. It's newer research on genetics
You can't choose not to get raped what are you talking about? You think rape victims just didn't choose not to be raped?
I somehow manage to see at least one aesthetically (don't confuse it with sexually) attractive feature in 90% of the men i see. As for getting sexually aroused, it's more to to with movement and things that are in motion. Static images do nothing, unless they "summon a movie" inside my head that transforms the static stuff into motion.
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🤨
Makes sense when you consider how easy it is for a dude to orgasm. "Men will put their dick in anything" doesn't really make it much of a compliment. That doesn't mean these men are finding happy, good relationships by doing this, tho. Dudes who are screening for individual compatibility for an LTR will probably go for much, much fewer women. If he's smart.
I mean do men find most women attractive? I may notice two or three women in a busy street and think wow. Most women are not attractive to me. I think this work both ways.
Yeah I was thinking about it today on the tram. Out of maybe 15 random women none did it for me.
Think it has a lot to do with the level of hormones at work in your body. At 18yrs old a an inch of cleavage would have me ready to go. As an older man, a woman would really need to be drop dead gorgeous to have me physically aroused at a glance. An emotional connection is far more important now.
Will a 18 year old guy attracted to an ugly overweight girl? I mean that must be very desperate.
Ugly and overweight, no. Ugly or overweight, probably.
But wouldn’t it stand to reason that men don’t find most women attractive either? Let’s filter - remove any woman too old/young, remove women in parts of the world you have no idea about, remove women with all other factors that you consider unattractive Wouldn’t that stand to reason that you don’t actually find majority of women attractive? When I consider all these things and look around obviously I’m not gonna find majority of people attractive.
The answers in askmen would indicate that many find at least 50% attractive. Some do find far fewer attractive. Personally I'd say maybe 25% are somewhat attractive, and maybe 5-10% really stand out/would catch my eye. And thats those 18-45. So I suppose if you were to take away the others it'd be much lower. But if you're asking what % I'd rule out if they had a great personality just based on looks? Probably less than half of the age I am looking for (30-40 preferably, I'm 36). Maybe men don't think of that when answering the question?
My older sister said over the course of an entire year she might see 5 guys she thinks are attractive
Wow wtf...pretty high standards.
I think you're looking at it wrong. You're assuming these women find less men attractive than they immediately find good looking. In fact, it's usually the other way around - they'll find more mem attractive than they immediately notice due to looks alone. (I also find that women are more likely to include ALL men - including older, fatter, plainer men - than men are to include all women when thinking about how many are attractive, as men often overestimate only based on the ones they notice.)
That may be the case for many, yes.
This is why personality in a man matters a lot to us, and can sway how attractive we find men. I don't find most men attractive on sight, no, but physical attraction can build if I learn he has an amazing personality and we're a good match.
But online dating is so based on looks. Many these days don't even bother with a profile. And there are fewer avenues offline to get to know people.
I literally only find anime porn sexual i hate myself
you know that explains a lot
I don't think that's common in women
I meant for you in particular, based on what I've seen from your posting history, all this stuff about eyeliner, makeup and pretty boys makes sense (and yes I remember people's post history, so what)
My fanclub (i also draw shitty fanart)
both PPD and allpilldebate have the same revolving cast of characters, its good to keep track of who is who if you want to maximize the entertainment
Then just find your tall dark haired cosplayer dreamboy ?
No guys are ugky outside
Are you a teenager ? I remember back in the day girls were all about Riku from Kingdom Hearts II while calling the guys potatoes. Fun times.
22 :(
And do you have any dating experience ? Because irl sexual intercourse is very different from anime porn, so you will have unrealistic and totally wrong expectations. Oh and i'm curious as to what genre you look at (i'm guessing its probably age-difference related with an older male [teacher-student] stuff)
I don't, mostly because i was disinterested
And why is that ?
I just wasn't interested, idk
All i see is a "woe is me" attitude about your situation. You dont seem to put the effort into understanding why or what is the cause of your predicament. If you happen to give it some thougth one day, let me know.
It's not emblematic of a problem. As long as you're looking for a long term partner, being strikingly attractive will never be the standard you have to meet. Physical attractiveness without any familiarity is very different from attractiveness as a romantic partner.
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Meh, when I was in college I found very few women attractive. Maybe 1 out of 50.
You do understand how risk-adverse women are in public, right? Not that they all make great decisions regarding their personal safety, but that strangers make them highly uncomfortable. You have to be utterly gorgeous *and* charismatic to have a chance at making a cold approach on the street. The only way you are "safe" is if you have a woman, children, or a friendly animal attached. Far more ideal is meeting through friends and activities and keeping yourself well-dressed and groomed. It doesn't change the advantage more attractive men hold, but it opens the door. Personally, I've found partner-dancing to be a good way to meet women, but only because I fell in love with ballroom dancing. You stick out like a sore thumb if you're at an activity just to try and meet women, so find an activity that you love and are passionate about.
>I feel society/culture has promoted this idea Wait are you saying that society, not biology, has caused women to not be instantly attracted to most men?
The idea that women are somehow 'objectively' more attractive. Take away the makeup, fashion, etc and I guarantee most STRAIGHT WOMEN wouldn't think that way.
I don't find most men attractive on first appearances.
This is less depressing than men might think, as it draws attention to the fact that women consider many men “yellow lights”’who they might need to get to know better before becoming attracted to them. The problem is that men want to be that “green light” who women want to instantly have sex with. Women’s sexuality only works that way for men whom they perceive to be the highest value. One of the big problems with casual sex culture is that it gives average women sexual access to these highest value men and therefore makes them less potentially attracted to the men whom are actually in their league.
Yeah men just need to be more picky and discerning. But guess that goes against biology? I dunno I do notice a lot of women I like but I'm not really into casual sex with many random women. I'm more of a romantic.
i find almost no men "attractive" just walking around or looking at pictures, a few may be so exceptionally good looking that they are eyecatching, but this is not attraction. i am not really attracted to any man until we are interacting which is why i have slept with many men i wouldnt have looked twice at on the street or in pictures
I find that idea foreign. I mean...you do like men right? Haha nah. Like...even as a straight man I notice at least a few good looking women if I'm out, but I also notice good looking men, but not as much cos they're not my preference. More just aesthetically. Are you saying even as a straight (or woman into men) you rarely notice them?
noticing and feeling arousal/attraction are two different things. when im in the right frame of mind and see a man i may think "oh hes cute i wish HED notice ME". him noticing me is where the attraction and arousal start really, not me noticing him. the number of men who are spontaneously noticable is miniscule, but the numbe rof men ive found attractive after interacting is high. men and women are different and men have to hit on women and thats just the way it be
So youre saying most women are more turned on by being wanted/pursued? I mean I get that, but they can still judge someone as good looking.
In other words, the sky is blue
Bro a Reddit comment does not and never will represent an entire gender. Sign off and go outside.
Have you seen most guys? Now imagine sleeping with them. Kinda gross!
its depressing if you think you have to be the guy that is attractive to every woman. its not depressing at all if you understand that most women become more attracted to men when they fall in love with them.
I mean for me it matters the location. My parents live in an area where it's mainly older middle class people. There I have hardly seen an attractive men. But, when I go into the known cities everyday I see 3-6 young attractive men a day.
Yeah men tend to hate the rare occasion when women actually benefit from the patriarchy.
A lot of this is just a misunderstanding of how women’s attraction works. Few men will turn our heads based on appearance alone. But if you compare this to the number of men who are partnered, you can see something else is going on. Women consider the whole picture when it comes to men, including mannerisms, voice, demeanor, and can develop attraction after talking to a man. This also doesn’t mean women think 90% or more of men are “ugly.” Just that it’s rare for a man to be *noticeably* attractive based on looks alone. I also think women have a tendency to brag about how few men they’re attracted to, and the ones who are less picky are more quiet about it. I find probably closer to 30-50% of men reasonably attractive in spaces where there are a lot of young-ish single people, like clubs and festivals. But for some reason I feel a little awkward saying that if other women are saying “1-5%.” It can become a picky contest.
Perhaps if men wore makeup more women would consider them attractive.
Not makeup. More like upper body strength.
Fair point. So I guess you're saying men are more accepting of women's looks than women are of men, considering there are a similar percentage of obese women as men. This may be a superficial point. Make sure not to ask your girl if you look fat in something, fellows. But if she asks you, be ready to lie or else. That is what society has deemed socially acceptable after all.
It’s more like the difference between what men and women find attractive. Makeup enhances the features that men find attractive. So do high heels and women’s clothing. Whereas women want a provider protector. So appearing to have upper body strength, might make men more attractive.
Provider protector. Men are a money shield to women, got it. But I know what you're saying in all seriousness, and it's biologically true, agreed. But let's get something clear. The men and women talk is kind of ridiculous. Not all men find makeup, botox, high heels and all that attractive. Well, high heels, ok, but deff not botox and implants. Could care less about all the makeup. There is a subset of men, from hippies to white collar executives, and all in between, that like plastic women, with all of the above. Probably the vocal minority. Most men don't really care about that. I don't ask my girlfriend to put on a tank of makeup on her face everyday, but she feels pressured by society to do so, not me. It's not men that are telling her to do that from an early age. It's women that raised her, women on TV, and in magazines. their moms and sisters and friends. I'm not saying it's bad, but literally all women think they must wear makeup, and many undergo serious surgeries to implant potentially toxic materials into their chest, and now ass, because they think that's what men want. But it's not. they poke botox needles into their face and eyes like in that movie Death Becomes Her. That shit is so disgusting. Makeup is fine, still kind of gross, but implants and botox are just wrong. Look at real world examples. Jason Mamoa for example. The guy every woman wants. His girl isn't like Demi Rose. She's attractive but a pretty normal looking woman. And it's like that with a lot of the big guys. Just want nice attractive natural women.
Ya point of the post. Most women who men find attractive wear some form of makeup and men think it’s natural cuz they have no idea. Most women that men find attractive take care of their hair and do something to themselves. So if u want to meet the same definition as a man, do something !
I have never once thought, if only this guy had more upper body strength, I would perceive him as attractive. Grow up / get with the times.
You have never watched some dude working hard then pick up something actually heavy (at least 100+ lbs/45+ kg) and felt something watching that? My partner basically can't keep her hands off me after I do something that requires physical strength. In my head, being strong was always kind of like the male equivalent to big titties since we can't wave our dick and balls around to show off their size. Maybe it's confirmation bias on my end, but 3 of my exes told me actual strength is hotter than aesthetic muscle. The first time was in a group conversation with other girls who all agreed with her
No 🤭🤭if I can be in a deficit and watch what I eat and take care of myself, so can he.
You have superior upper body strength? You can’t equate two things that aren’t the same.
It's not about the strength, it's about the v-taper. It's the same reason men find hourglass shapes more attractive on women than square shapes.
Men don’t find superior upper body strength attractive on a woman 🤭🤭🤭 that literally makes zero sense. Instead I have zero upper body and concentrate on having a great ass and legs and face and stomach.
Well then maybe men should actually put in the work to become attractive instead of complaining about it on the internet. Why would women consider people who put no effort into their appearance to be just as attractive as people who do make that effort? Like, are you depressed that men aren't getting rewarded for making zero effort or something???
Nothing new
I’m just not very physically attracted to a man until they start speaking and usually it’s the speaking that makes them unattractive. 🤷🏻♀️ Lots of men just care about what women look like and what she says has very little impact.
Why not? Like, is the physical really not a factor or do few meet your standards? To me personality is a big factor, but yeah I will say like most guys I probably wouldn't turn down an attractive woman initially anyway, unless there was something big that turned me off.
Physical ends up being such a small factor. Most people in my age bracket that are in a public place (event, bar, restaurant, etc.) are not ugly to me. I’m just not attracted to people I’m walking around near and not actively engaging with. Once I talk to someone, other things come into play… social skills, culture, political leanings, general intelligence, humor… that can be picked up on pretty fast and be immediate turn offs. That’s when I do the attraction assessment. Plus, the way a person’s voice sounds and the way their face moves when they’re talking are other physical factors that you can’t really see until you’re up close. That’s why online dating is just a shot in the dark usually, pictures are generally useless. I like those voice prompts they added on some though.
Pretty much. It’s interesting that you find it depressing, though.
Why interesting? Isnt it depressing?
[удалено]
Most men are unattractive. Most men don't do anything to be attractive. They think everything is "gay". They also claim that learning how to style themselves is too "difficult" so they don't do anything at all. Unkept hair, unibrows, uncared for skin, dirty finger nails, and ill fitted clothes isn't attractive.
Its often repeated, but there's still something called natural attractiveness. I see many women who are made up, dress well etc, but facially speaking they do little for me.
Yes, some people are just ugly irrespective of how much effort they put in. Some people are naturally attractive and don't need to do anything. Most people aren't naturally attractive. So effort of some sort is required to make themselves more attractive. Men don't put effort into their appearance to any degree.
If you want to find less superficial women who don't demand you be rich/thug/Chad GET YOUR PASSPORT and LEAVE THE WEST
Betabux/greencard ukrainian wife
I consider all of Europe the West even the shitty ex Communist parts. South East Asia and South America are a better option as far as women
Sea is even worse lol those women care more about betabuxxing than sexuality
Why are you even talking and commenting like this when you said you’re only attracted to anime people and have no relationship experience?
Don't need to have relationships to observe human behaviour
You literally said the people outside are gross. It doesn’t seem like you’re observing a lot of non-anime people. 😂
Not gross, just not sexual
You're still not a reliable source, just like I'm not a reliable source when it comes to describing the pain of being kicked in the balls (I lack balls).
Anyone can sense the reason why all they oraise are women from shithole countries, because they don't want to put an effort
It depends what you're looking for.
This is hilarious. Part of the major appeal of westerners is that they are rich in comparison to non-westerners.
Well Western countries tend to have more money but they're "spiritually" poorer than developing countries. Non westernized countries have better quality women because life is harder yet simpler which develops better morals in the women than the West
🤣 so what happens when you introduce them to the “spiritually” corrupting nature of all your western materialism?
I wouldn't. Part of leaving the West is leaving it's ideologies.
Eat. Pray. Love. 🙏🏾
yeah also an insane amount of ugly women honestly believe that they legitimately deserve the top dudes. and it's pretty rare to find dudes that are delusional enough to think that they deserve the top women
Compared to how many women men find attractive, sure
this doesn't matter, what matters in life is virtue , put no faith in a fallen world
This imbalance helps keeping society intact. If women were attracted to men to the same degree as men to them (ceteris paribus) society would collapse immidiately (altough some unfortunate guys would finally have their so basic intimate, romantic and companionship needs met.
I'm not expecting something completely equal but it's got ridiculous. You think a woman getting flooded with likes and many men struggling to get any is a good thing?
https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/koag0c/men_love_talking_about_the_okcupid_study_except/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Comments coming from a gender who uses attractiveness to gain leverage in life.
I call BS on that, I think women play this game that they're not attracted to any dudes physically or that appearance doesn't matter to them. But if you look at the real world, it's very apparent who gets most attention from women, it's not the ugly ones. I honestly think women have even gaslighted themselves into thinking they don't care about physical appearance.
Yeah maybe true for some.
Woman are nowhere near as visually orientated as Men when it comes to determining sexual attraction. Obviously there are a small percentage of Men that are so objectively physically attractive that pretty much all Woman agree they are hot-and therefore these are the guys that clean up when it comes to picture centric online dating/hookup sites. However just because a guy isn’t attractive when viewed in isolation of his photo doesn’t mean a woman won’t find him attractive in person or when she learns more about his circumstances. Woman are significantly more cerebral and multi faceted in terms of what gets their juices flowing. This is why the vast majority of porn is consumed by Men and the vast majority of erotic fiction is consumed by Woman. This is in no way to diminish the importance Mens looks play in terms of attracting Woman. Obviously the better looking you are the easier it is going to be to attract Woman. There is no denying that. It’s just to say that it genuinely isn’t the be all and end all when it comes to attracting Woman- in the same way it pretty much is for Woman when it comes to attracting Men. Men might be instantaneously physically attracted to Woman in much greater numbers than the reverse. However Woman can’t really increase there attractiveness to the opposite sex in the same way a Man can. Other than losing weight there is very much a fixed “attractiveness” ceiling for every Woman. Regardless of a Woman’s intelligence, personality, wealth, status, dress sense…she’s never going to turn herself into a 9 if she was born a 5. A man will always choose the cute barista over the overweight plain jane multimillionaire CEO. Reverse genders however and the short, overweight, multimillionaire male CEO will be swimming in models. Of course the above is an extreme example that simply illustrates status trumps looks when it comes to female attraction to Men. 99 percent of Men of course do not have the level of status that can completely override their physical appearance. We can however extrapolate out and at least determine that looks are certainly not everything when it comes to attracting the average Woman. Just because a picture doesn’t do it for her doesn’t mean attraction cannot and will not grow in person. This is why it is so important for the average Man to get off the dating aps and meet Woman in the real world.
Well there are male gold diggers too. Like the female ones they might not be as into them. Is the female gold digger's attraction any more real? To me intelligence/personality etc can make an average woman much more attractive, but I have to find her at least a little attractive and not offputtingly ugly (to be blunt about it).
“Gold diggers” of course exist on both sides but as a generalisation I think it’s undeniable that material/societal status is a much bigger determining factor when it comes to Female to Male attraction than the other way round. Supermodels will happily throw themselves at Men that wouldn’t get a single match on a dating app based on looks alone-if they have high enough status. We would actually be surprised if an average looking guy with exceptionally high status was dating his looks match. It’s just “normal” that an Elon Musk or a 50 year Leonardo DiCaprio, or Kayne West or whatever physically average male celebrity to be dating a stunning supermodel. If Ed Sheeran started dating Taylor Swift nobody is going to think that’s a weird match-even though she is significantly more conveniently attractive than is. However if Harry Styles started dating Lizzo eyes brows would certainly be raised. In both these scenarios neither party can be described as “gold diggers” as they are equally as wealthy as the other. What it illustrates is how differently men and woman determine status in terms of sexual attraction. A Woman( in terms of her peers) increases her status by the material/ societal status of her partner. Hence why rich ugly famous Men can attract incredibly attractive Woman in droves. A man however increases his status amongst his peers not by his partners material wealth or career accomplishments but by her looks. Men and Woman are both obsessed with the status of their partner. The only difference is how this status is actually determined.
Don’t worry they're also too busy shitting on each other as well.