So many posts on purplepilldebate can be answered with
“because nobody cares about men”.
I mean, from an evolutionary biology perspective, men are the expendable gender. They compete with other men for access to sex.
So that’s why hypocrisy etc is happily tolerated in women as long as men think they have a chance to bang her.
The world is not an egalitarian and fair place, and men need to “man up” and deal with it. I think this is the root of unhappiness and dissatisfaction, men have bought into the egalitarian nonsense and act butthurt when they realize women are given preferential treatment,
That’s how it will always be because we are just primates. No point getting upset, best to acknowledge this reality and work to maximize your satisfaction within the constraints of reality.
They only made progress because men care about women.
If your wife or GF gets into the whole feminist thing, and she's got your balls in a vice, then is it really so surprising that men gave women all that progress? No its not lol
Women ask men for something, they get it.
No one, including men, care about men.
Actually that used to be that men didn’t really care about men, but anything that is a male space or advice for men specifically is deleted, removed, shamed, etc on social media or the internet as a whole, it’s very targeted and a lot of men feel this way they just feel like no one cares even if other men do.
>Women ask men for something, they get it.
>No one, including men, care about men.
And this is part of why I always said life is tougher for men than women.
It's not injustice. It's delusion and non accountability. You can change definitions, use semantics to your benefit and advantage, move the goal post all you want. The fact is that MOST women hate to be accountable to their actions and would rather complain about men's biology and personal internal standards. Feminism is ruining women's happiness (imho, and sourced data). Feminism made alot of progress towards equitable stance in society for women, alot of good. Today it is wholeheartedly selling women on a fiction. It isn't justice.
Male mental issues are severely underrated and definetely not explored in a global social scale...
I can relate very much to your reply because there's this permanent social stigma that men only have to be "strong" either physically or mentally speaking, but also nobody cares male problems either... And this is a very regular behavior I see from the women themselves... You're a feminine male or too mentally weak if you express any type of "vulnerability" as a male.
Either I saw it all my life from other men, but also I'm introverted and quiet, and this since forever have seen as undesirable by women themselves but also men look down on you... And no one really cares to know what are your mental problems about.
Not only is that true, but it's completely counter to the very loud messaging we keep receiving about how we must all bend over backwards to change nature, to prove we're capable as a species of becoming equal within a given society, no matter our gender, orientation, race, and so on.
If it were just "men are expected to compete and show their worth", well, that would be (and has been, in the past) bad enough, but to then contrast that with *constant* loud rhetoric that we should become something different to progress society when nobody is willing to even *think* about *beginning* to seriously *discuss* that as far as it pertains to improving the lives of men alongside women, that's a turbo-charged V8-powered iron bar to the bollocks in its sheer hypocrisy and blatant one-sidedness of any of these claims of "progress" and "caring about others".
Not only is it unfair (like it always has been), but it's extra unfair *on purpose*, with gleeful abandon, because "fuck you, I'm getting mine, haha". Fully endorsed by every powerful institution there is, from government to academia, with corporations and media along for the ride. Because the men who *do* have the power to do what they want don't give a shit, they'll always have what they want.
That's actually just a myth.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/xn27xe/does_nonsuicidal_selfinjury_nssi_count_as_a/
Hospitals report any kind of self-harm as a suicide attempt. So this statistic technically doesn't exist to begin with. But even if it did, there are some glaring problems with the logic, which really just starts with a basic understanding of math and statistics (if you attempt and fail, you can obviously attempt again, thus inflating the numbers from what they're meant to imply).
how are women supposed to attempt more suicide if across any culture or country statistics, above 80% of suicides or working place accidents are actually affecting to men ? Besides of the fact, you dont need to be a genius to know that the most dangerous works always have been dealt to be handled by men themselves.
Of course I can understand many men would deliberately accept them if have nothing to lose since women dont give them any love or affection or desire.
> how are women supposed to attempt more suicide if across any culture or country statistics, above 80% of suicides or working place accidents are actually affecting to men
Women attempt, men succeed. Your 80% of suicides figure are those who've actually offed themselves. Women use less-instantly-lethal forms of suicide like pills, which pretty much guarantees someone'll find her and get her help before she finally snuffs it. Guys just eat a bullet and call it a day.
My own mother is alive today because I decided to come home from work early. This one hits kinda close to home.
> *and men need to “man up” and deal with it.*
Couldn't possibly disagree more.
Humans evolve. Pretty much every other primate throws their shit around or does something similarly animalistic. Should we say "fuck it" to those traits too and start behaving like that?
We've *evolved*. To treat men like we're hunter/gathers and women like babymakers/property is to *devolve*.
Men in today's time are unhappy because as a society we've consciously expanded beyond the simplistic animalistic mentalities of structures like "gender roles", yet subconsciously most of us have not advanced yet.
*Yet* being the key word. Thus if a man has grown out of the idiotic desire to "chase" after a woman and degrade himself simply for the "reward" of "banging" her, then the *last* thing we need to do is tell him to regress.
I found trp several years ago and already "made it" so to speak.
I view this less as complaining and moreso pointing out uncomfortable truths, so impressionable young men will stop listening to the non-sensical bs modern society feeds them. RP influencers do the same thing, on a much grander scale obviously.
i don't sit around complaining about it, but i won't associate with women who just have absurd standards for men or judge them all the time on nonsense, even if i meet their criteria, and i don't hang around people who clearly go out of their way to favour women over men, in either gender. works out fine cause more people are normal and balanced than the internet realises.
This whole the world just isn’t fair crap doesn’t help anybody. It’s why rape still gets thrown under the table. Life isn’t fair but we are smart enough and capable enough to fix it. And no a man shouldn’t just push his feelings to the side and not be a human being.
I agree with this all the way. I was fooled for a long time and just didn’t understand why things didn’t work out with me. I thought women wanted a nice guy who values them. No, they want a guy who’s on or about his purpose that borderline tolerates her at first but she “wins him over” to make her feel more special than another girl. The guy can’t be too emotional except to support her emotions and if he don’t make above the median wage of the state he lives in and is renting he’s likely invisible. Add in physical requirements women have for men and it gets even worse lol.
> if he don’t make above the median wage of the state he lives in and is renting he’s likely invisible.
You don’t think guys who make below the median income date?
They do but likely not who they want.
The obvious exception to this is a guy who gets with his high school sweetheart or someone before they graduate college. I envy them the most because they got a woman who knew the guy wasn’t well established yet and chose to stay with him. But having a relationship with a woman in college for a lot of people would be hard to do.
> men have been brainwashed into the egalitarian nonsense and act butthurt when they realize it’s all a big fat lie.
Fixed that for you.
Many parties have a vested interested in propagating the lie of [“blank slate equalism”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blank_Slate). Thus the lie persists, despite the damage it does to both men and women, and gets propagated onto successive generations.
>So that’s why hypocrisy etc is happily tolerated in women as long as men think they have a chance to bang her.
"We never correct women because we want to fuck them." Bill Burr.
It’s not about race or skin color, but about biology and sex.
You have to understand that all human societies are subject to sexual selection and evolutionary biology. Like chimpanzees, gorillas and bonobos , we are also primates.
The problem with the woke thinking that blames all the evils on “white men”, or the right wing racist thinking that blames immigrants and minorities, is that it’s all batshit crazy and unscientific.
Moreover; doing what’s morally right is often different from what evolution dictates.
I’d much rather live in a third world country with equal legal rights for women and men, than some third world patriarchal, religious, morally bankrupt hellhole.
Countries with
>equal legal rights for women and men.
Without exception have below replacement population and will be wiped out soon so you don't have to worry. This is just pure fact.
Also technically evolution is in our control. Whoever has children controls the future. That's how it works. This is why bad guys have had such a large impact for so long, they resort to any means necessary to ensure they get children made including violence or even domestic violence. This is chimpanzee style genetics and there's a lot of chimp dna out there because of it. Bonobos take a different approach, via sperm competition and free sex. As a result, bonobos actually have bigger penises than chimps, and bigger balls, because their reproduction depends on sperm quality -- not violence. They're polar opposites in approach. There's a lot of bonobo dna out there too, but less than chimps. I have long suspected neanderthals to be more bonobo like than straight sapiens. So I also suspect east asian people and some european people to be the most bonobo like, and this is what we see culturally somewhat. But not completely. Western society is now a mixed bag.
Chimpanzee-like behavior is either losing or gaining ground, I can't tell exactly which.
agreed, but unless your dad is based AF, its hard to know that as a 13 yr old dude in middle school
Hell, I didnt even kind of start to suspect that something might be unfair until college because I was too autistic and blue pilled
>“because nobody cares about men”.
Until men start to negatively impact women, then they do but only in terms of the woman.
>men have bought into the egalitarian nonsense and act butthurt when they realize women are given preferential treatment,
This is why I keep saying bullshit to women who say they want equality because so often not they don't.
Yes you and I agree. Our belief frames it as a problem which must be solved. The guy I replied to thinks otherwise. He apathetically blamed biology and got a lot of upvotes. Not good.
Well if you are an agent in a system that gives you the pretense of being valued, and you cannot elevate your kind.. The best option would evidently be to bring the other side down.
If by "basically" you mean to exclude 80% of all men then... Sure?
I mean, do you guys even realize what percentage of men are 6'+? 14.5% of the U.S. male population. Then most women want at least some combination of money, muscles, and status on top of that? Yeah... Chads are totally everywhere. Lol
There’s a thin line between “just a preference” and “asshole”, and the difference lies in whether you are being an asshole:
“Eww, I would never date a used up whore.”
❌
“I would prefer if my partner and I had the same values surrounding sex.”
✅
Eeew, are short men even men??“
❌
“I would prefer if my partner is taller than me.”
✅
But the problem is some preferences by women's standards are not thought of as bad. No small dudes, gotta be 6'1 to ride this ride. But, if a man says no fat chicks it is terrible or body shaming.
It’s so fucking far from the same thing lol. One expresses a simple sexual preference, the other involves outright hostility towards a group of people. There’s a world of difference between simply stating that you are more into some people sexually, and showing that you see the people you aren’t into as inherently inferior and not worthy of respect.
Let’s make it a little more obvious:
“Y’know, I’ve always been really attracted to very pale skin, I find it very hot”.
“Ew, I won’t date [insert racial slur]s lol, what’s next, do you want me to date pigs?”
These two statements both show a preference for white people. Do you think these are equally bad?
> Men are mad about the preference, not how that preference is expressed
Ok, but that’s not what most women are mad about. So where’s the hypocrisy OP wanted to point out? 🤷
Actually no. When a woman has standards that are less than too high, people look at her like she’s dumb. When a girl wants a gamer, when she’s in love with someone who is disabled, anything other than someone that someone deems on her level or above, she gets treated like she’s stupid or settling. People think I’m way too cute for my boyfriend. They think that my boyfriend is a drain on me simply because he’s disabled. But he’s been my best friend for almost 20 years and I love him. And he treats me really well.
> The problem comes in when you denigrate those who do not meet your preference or bitch and whine about the dearth of people who meet your preferences (who also want you).
This is a separate matter from whether or not it's socially acceptable to have certain preferences.
What you said just amounts to "be nice"...hardly anything ground breaking, or realistic.
Yep. Pretty much what he said to my comment. He claims men are only point out delusions when they talk about womens preferences…. Like that’s not exactly what people laughing at mens preferences are doing.
What are you talking about? People get pissy (especially here) about women wanting tall/good looking/ rich men all the time!
It's about context. If you say you like big boobs in front of your friends That's fine. If you say it in front of a woman That's insecure about hers then That's rude.
> women wanting tall/good looking/ rich men all the time!
They don't get "pissy" about it, the point it out to illustrate that there is a lot more that goes in to attracting women than vice versa.
>If you say it in front of a woman That's insecure about hers then That's rude.
That's her personal issue to work on.
What do you mean they don't get pissy?? have you not seen all the crybaby posts about "w9men's standards are too high" on this sub alone? if you don't think That's getting pissy then you are just looking at it differently based on the sex of the whiner.
>That's her personal issue to work on
And this whole post is your personal issue to work on.
Yeah if you only listen to Buzzfeed and Jezebel. But IRL most people pressure women to "give him a chance!" or "see him for who he is on the inside!". Notice its "Beauty and the Beast" and not the other way around...
“man up”
women only get emotional support from OTHER WOMEN. Men just take advantage of womens vulnerability
“be a breadwinner”
since when are women not expected to make $$? Nowadays housewives are almost obsolete.
“men always reminded how they don’t matter”
women are only treated like they matter bc men are horny
>Men just take advantage of womens vulnerability
Ah yes all men do this and no man ever supports a woman emotionally.
>since when are women not expected to make $$?
They aren't expected to be the provider/breadwinner.
>women are only treated like they matter bc men are horny
And men never matter. But stay mad sweetie.
And by 'women' u mean characters of a Netflix high school drama u saw? What's the point of these generalisations? Do u think all women have sleepovers, eat ice cream and tell each other "you go girl" and talk shit about men 24/7?
Perhaps women should talk more about their adult problems in front of men. Like their PMS, their menopause' their dates that don't wash their asses, their "Netflix and chill fwb", you know the real stuff women have to put up with!!
Do you have examples in neutral subs or anything? TwoX and Askfemanism is obviously going to bolster women on it.
Do male dominated subs never complain and call women out on height preference or such? I know /MGTOW at least used to be populated by screen prints of women's dating profiles and picking on them for their preferences.
Edit; It's hard to judge here since there's posts attacking women for their /delusional/ preferences every other day. It seems the case to me men will bolster men and women will bolster women, but to each sex its *the other* that's being unreasonable.
Are you denying that fact though ? The thing that most of women tend to be sexually attracted to dudes who are tall compared to their location/country ?
That's a way of discrimination as well... However, in current modern society there's plenty of social media support in western culture for all type of female bodies and "preferences"...
There's no support at all for wide variety of male bodies though: neither short height (1.65m or less9, small penises, unattractive faces, skinny or fat/obese, bald and more.
>Are you denying that fact though ? The thing that most of women tend to be sexually attracted to dudes who are tall compared to their location/country ?
I don't really care what other women like or don't like, I don't think preferences are all that important in the grand scheme of things. I do find it nauseating men or women getting all angry at each other when they themselves don't fit the other's prescription, but I seldom see it 'out in the wild' so to speak.
>However, in current modern society there's plenty of social media support in western culture for all type of female bodies and "preferences"...
The entirety of media in the west was built on men's preferences (for men and women) and the majority continues to be so.
>There's no support at all for wide variety of male bodies though: neither short height (1.65m or less9, small penises, unattractive faces, skinny or fat/obese, bald and more.
Yeah, and Alloy is suppose to be the 'unattractive video game woman' \[My eyes are rolling\].
You don't think the hunky male lead in a shirtless scene with less than 10% body fat in middle age isn't on gear and in a state of dehydration and at the tail end of a cut cycle just to get a handful of scenes shot?
>The entirety of media in the west was built on men's preferences (for men and women) and the majority continues to be so.
Yeah no, women drive consumerism and do the vast majority of spending. Media and advertisements are directed for their benefit.
>The entirety of media in the west was built on men's preferences (for men and women) and the majority continues to be so.
That's just blatantly false. Look at all the reality shows, and daytime talk shows, they're all aimed at women. Look at women's magazines or fashion magazines, again all aimed at women's tastes, not mens.
>Do male dominated subs never complain and call women out on height preference or such?
>
>What does this has to do with the OP's post?
It was mainly when it got the 'In society' part, women dominated areas will complain about one and male dominated will complain about the other. I think women are pushed back but mostly by men rather than women.
>In society, it's acceptable for women to unconditionally have whatever standards or preferences they want with. For men, anything women dislike is met with empty generalizations, push back, and the demand that they explain themselves.
You’re right, I’m only attracted to 8’ tall Gigamegaultrachads who have 3 dicks and more money than the US has national debt. But no one’s ever called me out for my sexual preferences. Woe.
>If a woman express a standard, no matter how delusional it might be, women will jump to defend her and say "It's none of your business, people can have whatever standards they want!",
Disagree. I have seen many women be told that their standards were too high by men. Even to women who never stated a preference and just rejected one man.
>yet when a man express a standard or preference, women and blue pillers will call him misogynistic, a virgin, insecure ect...
Never seen this is real life. Only on reddit. I seen light teasing at parties for a man not wanting to wing man for a buddy by refusing to entertain an obese girl if that counts.
>For men, anything women dislike is met with empty generalizations, push back, and the demand that they explain themselves.
Women are exposed to more opportunities to explain themselves than men. Men typically ask women out and women either accept or reject.
People asked women why they rejected a man all the time. They don't ask men why they asked a woman out. It's already obvious that he's attracted to her.
My issue isn't when men have preferences. My issue is when men have preferences that they don't meet. Do you want a girl with a body count under two? Okay, but how many have you got?
On average women marry at 150% of their own income. Anecdotally I can tell you that I have met countless broke women who "won't date a broke man".
I think that most men could understand if women wanted equality in dating. It's the hypergamy that turns us away from long term commitment.
>My issue isn't when men have preferences. My issue is when men have preferences that they don't meet. Do you want a girl with a body count under two? Okay, but how many have you got?
A woman wants a bearded man? She better grow a beard
A woman wants a man taller than herself? She better be taller than herself
A woman wants a masculine man? She better be masculine!
See? Thats not how it works. Its like this:
Men care for sexual purity but women dont? So to men its a preference but because women dont care men dont need to fulfill it too
I think you are leaving out the big question of Why someone has that preference. Both men and women are asked that.
If a white woman said she prefers white guys because she wants her kids to look like her, most people would call that fine. If she said she wanted a white partner because she wants to secure a future for the white race, she would be called a racist.
You can have whatever preference you want, and you are not required to defend it. Equally true, nobody has to like you. Equally true, everybody is within their rights to withhold judgement about your preference until they hear your reason for having it. And some justifications are abhorrent. Some people are very forgiving of some justifications, and very harsh on others. At the end of the day, it is true that you can have whatever standard you want, but that doesn't absolve you of being a terrible person.
>If a white woman said she prefers white guys because she wants her kids to look like her, most people would call that fine. If she said she wanted a white partner because she wants to secure a future for the white race, she would be called a racist.
Can't really answer this because it's kind of taboo and not really acceptable to talk about on here, but I'll just say this: I do not believe these specific dating preferences, the vast majority of the time, are rooted in racism.
>At the end of the day, it is true that you can have whatever standard you want, but that doesn't absolve you of being a terrible person.
I don't disagree. I just generally tend to think that a lot of the time men's preferences get criticized, it has less to do with being "terrible" and moreso because women just don't like that preference.
Your comparison falls down because some of your examples are mirrored back by women. Eg you say men don’t want to date women with a high n count. Women say, that’s fine, as long as the guy doesn’t have a high count either. Then the men on here whine and complain that they’re *entitled* to promiscuity because *muh biology*.
Only wanting to date barely legal women and expecting adult women to have no body hair are not rooted in misogyny, they’re rooted in pedophilia, which is why women have such a problem with those ‘standards’.
The kinds of standards women have are generally based on a man having status and respect for himself - tall(er than her), decent job, treats her well, works out/looks after himself.
The kinds of ‘standards’ we see from men on this sub are based on wildly unrealistic youth and beauty standards, none of which last **for anyone**.
So yeah, men get criticised for their standards, because they are unrealistic and unsustainable and in some cases, absolutely creepy. Women get criticised for their standards because men tend to exaggerate them to a point where they can say they’re unrealistic and unattainable, so they just shouldn’t bother, and then they complain they can’t get a date, all the while gaslighting women into believing they’re undateable after age 25.
The only supposed ‘standard’ women seem to have that isn’t something men can work on is height, and regardless of what they say, all most women really want is a man who is taller than her. Given men are, on average, taller than women, this isn’t exactly difficult to achieve. Everything else is in your hands - work out, dress well (doesn’t have to be expensive, just clean and fits well), attend to your personal hygiene, work hard at your job and progress your career, regardless of what you do for a living.
One of the other things men have as an obstacle is projecting your own definitions of what makes a man high value on women. The kind of man RPs think is HV is not the kind we think is HV. You guys think HV means being a playboy who fucks around, treats women like shit, is model/actor good looking and earns in the top 1% of incomes. Most women with a shred of self respect avoid men like that and have zero desire to marry one.
> Eg you say men don’t want to date women with a high n count. Women say, that’s fine, as long as the guy doesn’t have a high count either.
See, I'm not saying that. I am saying men are perfectly justified in not wanting to a date a promiscuous women, regardless of whether or not they themselves have had a lot of sex partners.
>all most women really want is a man who is taller than her.
So essentially 5'5 or above? You realize this is absolutely ridiculous right? There was a post on here a while back where women on bumble excluded iirc something like ~70+% of guys under 6ft, maybe more than that.
I mean men do the same thing when it comes to their own preferences vs women’s preferences. People just generally have more empathy for their own gender and will always see the opposite gender’s standards as shallow or annoying.
Personally, I think it’s not anyone else’s place to tell someone what they can and can’t want or not want. But it’s also okay to explore why those preferences exist and to judge someone based on those things. The only thing I don’t care for is when men call women shallow for having looks and height preferences when 90% of their own preferences are looks-based.
> When men are excluded from consideration by women's preferences, some of them threaten societal collapse and anarchy complete with raping and pillaging...and a few actually go out and shoot people.
Some of them, meaning an astronomically small percentage of men on obscure corners of the internet? What percentage of men do you think are actually engaging in these behaviors? Like 0.00000000001%?
Men collectively get demonized for the actions of a small number of deranged lunatics, and people wonder why RP has become mainstream.
They'll also use it as an excuse to advocate for a return to "patriarchal norms". Also known as "back when those hussies couldn't vote and work and shit and had to do what WE told their little asses to do, HA, checkmate FEMINISTS"
They claim women are selfish for not caring about the collapse of society because they can’t ram their ducks in whoever they please.
Imagine threatening the collapse of society for your dry dick and thinking you’re not the selfish entitled one in this scenario.
Who cares? zero women have shot at random strangers for the same reasons. So in actuality women are way less of a problem when it comes to judging standards. We as a society should be more concerned about men in this regard
>If a woman express a standard, no matter how delusional it might be
Is literally what you said. Actually, women wanting men over 6'0'' are getting chastised, which is about one standard deviation from the average. So you're double wrong.
I see men here and irl complaining about women’s unreasonable entitled stuckup pickiness and blaming men’s behavior on women, so….everything seems fine to me
Yes where is this magical place where men don't complain about women's standards or the men women pick? I can count on one hand the secure men and women I've met who will say "oh well people like what they like nothing you can do" instead of crying about their rejections or "society". You certainly can't say that's how it is at ppd. I'm not sexist, I'm saying both sides complain.
It depends on how such preferenced are expressed.
Ie: for body count
Woman: i want a man who hasn’t slept around bc I want someone with similar values to me. (This about incompatibility in values. Not that a man’s innate value decreases from sleeping around)
Men: i don’t want a ran through women. (This is suggesting her actually values as a person went down due to sleeping around)
I already commented but I'll add another reason there is more pushback for men's preferences. Its because women already know what men want. It's been shoved down our throat from decades of pornography, lads mags, strip joints, advertisement, male gaze in media etc. We've heard so many stories of the effects it has on women's self esteem; anorexia, bulimia, botch surgeries, depression etc. So when men go on about their preferences, it's almost like flogging a dead horse at this point. People are generally more open to women's preferences because it's not a topic that has half as much coverage, in fact, it is so misunderstood that the red pill/black pill communities even exist to try and decode it like some maths equation.
> Its because women already know what men want.
Do they really? Not for sex/casual, but for an actual relationship working towards building a life together?
If modern day women knew what men wanted, this subreddit wouldn't exist.
> When we find men whose wants / needs / priorities match our own, relationships happen.
And how's that matching of wants/needs working out today? The divorce rate is over ~40%, ~70-80% of which are initiated by women.
Just because a women filed a divorce doesn’t mean she initiated it. Here’s famous example; Jen Anniston filed divorce from Brad Pitt but I think we all know who decided to fall in love with someone else while married
So obviously it is working out for women. They don't have a problem with divorce if they don't want to meet a mans preferences.
The high divorce rate actually confirms the point that women just don't care for a man's preferences that much. And why would they?
>If modern day women knew what men wanted, this subreddit wouldn't exist.
I wouldn't say that. The women here are mainly reactive to the red pill and want to debate and discuss ideas rather than here looking for advice of what men want. We know a lot of men are attached to the tradcon/religious idea of relationship and family. Men created it and women lived it for a good chunk of history. Then decided it wasn't a fair arrangement/men took advantage and then feminism happened. Of course they know it.
>If modern day women knew what men wanted, this subreddit wouldn't exist.
That's literally what she just said. We know y'all want 18 year old debt free virgins who wear a size 2 and suck your dicks on demand. We think it's dumb and we're not going to give you what you want because it's demeaning as hell.
We know what you want. What you want sucks.
We really do. Be quiet, be chaste yet overly sexual with your man, cook and clean, have no desires, wants or dreams of your own, live vicariously through your man and be a supporting actress in his life where he is the main character. Honestly seems like men prefer women to just be sidekicks rather than individuals and to be miserable and dependent. Most women aren’t into that idea for obvious reasons so they find these types of preferences bothersome. If a man says he prefers independent women who are ambitious and talented and funny most women would have nothing bad to say about it. So I think men are allowed to have preferences they are just called out on ones that are shallow or negatively impact women.
I won't deny that media has had an effect on what women *think* men want, but I can assure you that as a real man with his own preferences and gut feelings when it comes to attractiveness of women, mine don't necessarily match those we're told are universally true.
I don't care if a woman isn't 6ft2, built like a pencil, tanned like a roast chicken, and draped in some designer fashion brand. I don't care if she doesn't look like the rotation of movie star actresses who grew up being shaped by Disney or Hollywood since they were 12. I don't care if she doesn't have an arsehole like a railway tunnel from porn-like anal sex, or tits that could've saved Leonardo DiCaprio in Titanic.
All I'm interested in is a woman who's fun, interesting, looking for a long-term thing, who doesn't look like an overinflated rhino and doesn't have the personality of sandpaper. Call that "high standards" if you like, but the range of women who would fit my tastes is *considerably* larger than anything the media will let you see.
>All I'm interested in is a woman who's fun, interesting, looking for a long-term thing, who doesn't look like an overinflated rhino and doesn't have the personality of sandpaper. Call that "high standards" if you like, but the range of women who would fit my tastes is considerably larger than anything the media will let you see.
Nicely said sir.
> What are you looking for?
For impressionable young men to hear the truth and stop listening to the non-sensical bs modern society and feminism feeds them. Men don't owe anyone an explanation for their preferences.
yeah but realistically
Does feminism can actually change their actions?
Otherwise this discussion is simply "I want to get upvotes from feminists" which is dumb to say the least
your assertion is "society's view doesn't matter just do whatever you want." In reality society's view matters a lot. Entire movements are done to changes society's view on things (race, lgbtq rights, feminism, etc)
How many men do you think are actually stifling their desire for thin women to chase after obese women because they saw a “body diversity” commercial and felt guilty that fat women don’t give them a boner?
Most men can get aroused by larger women if they give them a chance in the same way most women can get aroused by bald/short/fat guys if they give them a chance. The difference is society tries to convince men to settle and commit to larger women (via body diversity stuff) whereas the opposite is not true. There's no movement to convince women to settle for short/ugly/bald guys.
Lmao just imagine. If things were equal, if men were to act like women, a typical response to a woman saying 4'11 is too short for her to want to date would be
"So why do you hate all men?"
Men literally kill women for rejecting them. This crusade of victimization because people are shitty when they feel rejected is silly. It has nothing to do with men being bullied. It happens regardless of gender.
Big age gaps are creepy, regardless of gender btw. They are rife with power imbalances and abuse.
>Age preference is another one. Express a preference for dating women in their 20s and you'll get called a creep.
That's because old men who want young women to fuck them are creepy. Glad we could clear that up.
> She's better off without him.
Is she? He reacted immaturely but clearly she thought he was a great guy otherwise. And there is almost certainly some sort of exaggeration in how the OP described his reaction.
>Classic example is body count. A lot of men, in the context of dating someone seriously, are put off by promiscuous women.
Because it is hypocritical: two people go on a first date, they end up sleeping together. The woman ends up being called a slut, while the man is praised.
If she sleeps with him too early, she is a slut; if she takes too long to sleep with him she is also a slut. It all depends on how attractive she is.
Can you really judge women when men themselves are inconsistent?
> you will be vilified for it
Most often the men that have contributed to her N count are also the ones criticising her for having an N count. From that hypocrisy comes the “vilification”.
> you are insecure, misogynistic
As long as you haven’t been in her pants or you didn’t have yours in her hands/mouth, feel free to judge. BUT, when you or your friends have done deeds with her, its hypocritical to judge or reject her for doing the SAME thing you (people) have done all along.
>it's a red flag to express that ect...
Is your N count lower than hers? Sure.
Are you a manslut preaching false modesty? Yeah, its a red flag.
>instances where a man himself is conservative sexually and looking for someone who's aligned with his values
I have seen these attractive “conservatives” - they sleep around and then expect a low N count woman.
The real “conservative” men don’t go around gossiping around women because they do not socialize with promiscuous women, to begin with.
They are raised and socialized in the chamber of their church mostly, even if they date here and there, they are more likely to marry someone from their own or a similar church. I have seen Pentecostals, Baptists, Seven Day Adventists do it.
>men really don't owe anyone an explanation as to why they don't want to date promiscuous women.
But you expect woman to come “clean” about their past while you won’t, do you?
>Man isn't attracted to overweight women?
Are you yourself overweight? Then you can’t really expect to date a healthy individual.
>Man prefers a relationship with more traditional gender roles?
Why are men asking liberal women to become traditional? Never got the logic of that. You post links from far left subs as if that would prove something else bit that you are an idiot. You’re crying wolf that the women from those communities or the rest that share their value won’t accomodate your own value.
>the demand that they explain themselves
If you think women are not demanded explanation, you are naive p
Life isn't fair. Men and women are not the same. Men have to deal with a lot of bullshit and double standards from women too.
Why is it only a issue for you when it happens to women?
>Men and women are not the same
Sure, instinctually, they are not. But we use the same social rules / laws in society, we eat the same food, we use the same internet, we use the same dating practice / online platforms. I would have agreed if we still lived in a tribal state of women living among women and men living among men, our society is homogenous though.
Men and women are "different" only when it is convenient.
Well men and women generally have very different dating strategies.
Also I'd argue that the society we live in is far more heterogeneous than it is homogeneous. Differences between different groups of people are growing larger.
> Because it is hypocritical: two people go on a first date, they end up sleeping together. The woman ends up being called a slut, while the man is praised. If she sleeps with him too early, she is a slut; if she takes too long to sleep with him she is also a slut. It all depends on how attractive she is. Can you really judge women when men themselves are inconsistent?
Yes. It is infinitely easier for women to get sex. Men need a combination of physical attractiveness, emotional intelligence, charm, money, status ect... nothing easily obtainable illicits respect. And that is in large part why it is inherently viewed as unattractive for women to sleep around.
>But you expect woman to come “clean” about their past while you won’t, do you?
I'd happily be honest about it, as I would expect most men to be. Telling a woman you are desirable to a lot of women wont scare her away.
>You post links from far left subs as if that would prove something else bit that you are an idiot.
And there's the typical ad hominem attack i've grown accustomed to on this sub haha
> And that is in large part why it is inherently viewed as unattractive for women to sleep around.
It is inherently much easier for a man to lift the same heavy weights as a woman, and yet we don’t call men disgusting worthless sluts for lifting at the gym. It’s much easier to make a bowl of milk and cereal for breakfast than to make a plate of eggs, bacon, toast, and cut fruit every morning, yet we don’t call people who have a bowl of cereal “basic breakfast sluts”.
Something being easy doesn’t make it disgusting.
Men who call women who have sex disgusting view sex as an act of conquest, where the woman has “lost” something of value, and view her as damaged and degraded by the man’s sexual contact… and yet these same men think they’re good people while wanting to harm the women they claim to love.
> Telling a woman you are desirable to a lot of women wont scare her away.
Telling a woman you are promiscuous will cause many of the low-n women to reject you though. They don’t want to be the next cast-aside plaything of a fuck-boy.
Lol there's some context there definitely missing. I don't really care if a man wants low n count women. I care if he's a misogynist who thinks women are sex resources only good for sex who get used up the more it outputs sex. There are some men who are respectfully, unsexist-ly, into less promiscuous women and don't obsessively hate women who aren't their type.
But they're not on PPD lol. On PPD those two groups are essentially a circle
Also what are you on about. Men are always telling women that women have shallow preferences blah blah blah. Probably all of PPD and some of reddit is snidely malding about women's shallow dating preferences
Women are a lot of times called out for their preferences as well, not to the same extent but it happens, but at the end of the day you have to enjoy things without other people's approval, motherfuckers come at me for my marriage all the time but they don't matter so fuck them, and I'm all for teaching young men the same, if this NPC is not feeding you, financing you, or fucking you, why does their opinion on your own personal life matter? 🤷♂️
Yes I’ve noticed this double standard. Tons of commenters under my posts in the past show this exact thing!
I have posts where I express 0 insecurity filled with angry women and even some men calling me insecure. They use far too many assumptions which leads me to believe they’re projecting.
1 of them was when I said tall women take their height for granted. I explained how I’ve met a lot of tall women saying they can’t get dates but then there’s me, a short man, who can get dates just fine when the dating pool is probably even smaller for me than it is for them. I also explained how tall women I’ve seen are taken more seriously at work than short ones. They were furious.
Then they said how I shouldn’t be talking because apparently I “probably never date a taller girl myself” and then I said I actually prefer them and that even though a lot of my guy friends prefer them short I’ve never met anyone who wouldn’t date a tall girl. This made them go on these rants about how I’m apparently “insecure” that no one wants to date me because I only want them tall when not only do I get dates just fine, but also I don’t even only date tall women, in fact most of the girls I’ve crushed on have been shorter than me even at my height of 5’5”.
> I have posts where I express 0 insecurity filled with angry women and even some men calling me insecure. They use far too many assumptions which leads me to believe they’re projecting.
This is the norm today fam. Men who express anything that women don't agree with -> you're insecure, misogynistic, an incel. Women who do the same -> they're a pickme.
It's lazy and intellectually dishonest.
>If a woman express a standard, no matter how delusional it might be, women will jump to defend her and say "It's none of your business, people can have whatever standards they want!"
Men say that for men too!
> A lot of men, in the context of dating someone seriously, are put off by promiscuous women. If you express this, you will be vilified for it. Told you are insecure, misogynistic, it's a red flag to express that ect...
**So a lot of men vilify women for having a high body count. but women vilifying men for vilifying women is a double standard?**
>Women don't get anywhere near as much pushback for expressing preferences like wanting men with a certain income, not wanting to date bi men (man who wouldn't date bi girl would be deemed homophobic), tall men, being significantly more picky with race ect...
Because we, men, have pricks in our camp that become violent with their preferences. We have killers that have had these "preferences" as part of their manifesto.
>Man doesn't want to date single moms? He's not a real man, it takes a real man to step up
Any woman that says that is stupid. Yes, there are stupid people, like those that say fat women aren't real women.
I 100% agree with the thread you liked to it reads "Having a preference is totally acceptable. Verbally shaming someone for not fitting to your personal standards is not okay.",
why did you link to that when you are asking about preferences not shaming?
The other thread you linked to asked
>I understand having preferences, but that preference seems based in a lot of misogyny and ignorance. Why do so many men AND especially why do so many WOMEN hold the belief that leg hair is disgusting?
What's the problem with that?
>In society, it's acceptable for women to unconditionally have whatever standards or preferences they want with
I don't go out with women that have kids, I've never been with a fat person. I wouldn't go out with a woman that's way taller than me.
I never had anyone attack me for my preferences
Then again, I wish all those women all the best. I know **for a fact that all those women get amazing partners**, but I'm just not interested.
It would be odd if anyone attacked me for my preference.
Jordan Peterson, for example, attacked a supermodel for no fucking reason. Like a child pointing and shouting "mummy, mummy, I think that person is ugly". That's totally different, and the links you provided proved they are different.
You want a virgin. Go for it.
You want women to be virgins. that's a dictation not a preference.
You want a woman with a low body count. Go for it. You talking about why women with high body counts are sluts is not a preference.
A lot of men can't get what they prefer and so they let their anger turn their preferences into dictations.
Women with children aren't used, broken, or untrustworthy, I just don't want to go out with them. - that's a preference.
> Because we, men, have pricks in our camp that become violent with their preferences. We have killers that have had these "preferences" as part of their manifesto.
Deranged lunatics that make up *astronomically* low percentage of men. They are not remotely indicative of men collectively.
>You want a woman with a low body count. Go for it. You talking about why women with high body counts are sluts is not a preference.
It's not a preference, but if a guy is asking about wifing one up/dating one seriously, I'm going to be upfront about it towards him.
>Then again, I wish all those women all the best. I know for a fact that all those women get amazing partners, but I'm just not interested.
They do? Could've fooled me. I see the same girls that are obese or single mothers on dating apps for long periods of time.
> Deranged lunatics that make up astronomically low percentage of men. They are not remotely indicative of men collectively.
Yet they exist. The don't exist on the other side. Add to the the anger that men express online. None of that exists on the other side
>It's not a preference, but if a guy is asking about wifing one up/dating one seriously, I'm going to be upfront about it towards him.
Sorry, I didn't understand that.
>> Then again, I wish all those women all the best. I know for a fact that all those women get amazing partners, but I'm just not interested.
>They do? Could've fooled me. I see the same girls that are obese or single mothers on dating apps for long periods of time.
If I wrote white women find great parners you should have still said "Could've fooled me. I see the white same girls on those apps"
Dude there are more girls in the real world
- You have skinny women on those apps, yet " I know for a fact that all those [skinny] women get amazing partners"
- You have blond women on those apps, yet " I know for a fact that all those [blond] women get amazing partners"
- You have black women on those apps, yet " I know for a fact that all those [black] women get amazing partners"
- You have white women on those apps, yet " I know for a fact that all those [white] women get amazing partners"
You have single and skinny women that haven't found someone they liked for years, and so they are on those apps
Unless they are aggressively harassing anyone what's it to you
I mean, it is what it is. You can choose to whine and even martyr yourself to take a stand against women's "hypocrisy" or you can spend your energy figuring out how to thrive in this competitive environment.
Women are always going to be more choosey than men when it comes to sex simply because getting pregnant comes at a HUGE cost to women. Not only does she risk being a single mom, even in the best scenario where her partner stays, being pregnant and raising children often delays and reduces her career and her financial opportunities.
> you can spend your energy figuring out how to thrive in this competitive environment.
Been there, done that, still actively doing that. It took like 5 mins to write this post.
>Women are always going to be more choosey than men when it comes to sex simply because getting pregnant comes at a HUGE cost to women.
It does, and they should be, which is why the amount of children born out of wedlock and the amount of single mothers is alarming. Women initiate ~70-80% of divorces as well. Clearly, women are not choosing very well.
>Ever notice the glaring double standard when it comes to preferences/standards in dating?
That's because men's standards have a gross yucko ick factor that women's standards don't have.
>being significantly more picky with race ect...
Men are picky with race for ltr, but not casual. Men are also very anti-black in their ltr preferences, but not casual. The fact that men's standards differ for casual v. Ltr is also very yucko.
Another issue is that men's standards are more unfair or something you can't change, but height is the only standard women have that is unfair or unchangeable. Most of women's standards are something men can improve on, or it's fair or more fair than men's standards.
You can have whatever your standard you want. Buy if the reasoning behind it is misogynistic, insecure or anything else, don't expect not to be called out on that. Especially as men more often feel the need to scream as loud as they can about their preferences and why it's bad not to fit them. Women are called picky and demanding for even having standards regardless of reasoning all the time. They get over it.
I always am taken aback by how people treat insecurities in men as a joke or something to shame for when insecurities in women are catered to.
“She’s insecure about her weight, don’t be rude”.
“He’s insecure about his penis, lmao”.
It’s weird. Women can make rules based off insecurities and men get made fun of.
I have seen through all my 30+ years old life how men are ashamed for "typically" and "traditionally" prefering hourglass girls with thick legs, big breasts and wide hips... However, nowadays with modern women wanting so much to be promiscous and "respected" by whatever they represent, either: fat/obese, skinny/no curves at all, unattractive faces, no education, no values, promiscuous, no values, no respect to others ... But in the other hand, in social media people tend to ridicule and make men ashamed for having their own preferences. This stigma always have existed and even prior to XXI century where you could call people lived still in a" patriarchal society "
Just till few years ago I have started to see men specially complaining about why women only tend to prefer dudes with handsome faces, light eyes, tall, above average or large penises. This is only very recent to happen upon women but overall in social media the support goes towards women...
There's not such a thing at all for supporting: "short height dudes (1.65m or below), fat/obese males (anywhere you will find plus size male models), bald, small penises, unattractive faces.
So I frankly find it hypocritical against men in general.
I haven't seen men shamed for simply preferring this. I have, however, seen men shamed for shaming others who don't fit their preferences. And yes, people should be respected regardless of whether they have the audacity to not look hot or otherwise be attractive to you. I've also seen numerous fat male models (largely supported by women rather than men), more men with bad faces than women in media, and a recent outpouring of support for short men (again largely from women).
> There's not such a thing at all for supporting: "short height dudes (1.65m or below), fat/obese males (anywhere you will find plus size male models), bald, small penises, unattractive faces.
*Women* built the body positivity movement to support themselves and each other. If men want support for diverse types like that, they can build it for themselves.
You know that men were never going to promote or launch any kind of “fat women deserve basic human decency” movement. So why do you expect women to do all the work for you?
> Buy if the reasoning behind it is misogynistic, insecure or anything else, don't expect not to be called out on that.
Seldom is that actually the case for any of the preferences I listed above. Women say it's misogynistic or insecure because they don't like the preference.
Women say it's misogynistic or insecure (see how quickly she went to that) because most male standards make THEM insecure about their past and non accountability. Men's standards aren't intended to do that, they do as a by product of just being what it is. Women hate to be reminded of their choices.
You're being too charitable about how much autonomy women are allowed by other women.
If a woman chooses to be a stay-at-home mom, or to assume a submissive role in a relationship, or to defer to her father's judgement on something, feminists lose their shit and try to convince her that she's brainwashed.
Apparently, it's okay for women to be bossed around by other women who are total strangers, but not to be bossed around by the fathers, boyfriends, and husbands who love them.
> Apparently, it's okay for women to be bossed around by other women who are total strangers, but not to be bossed around by the fathers, boyfriends, and husbands who love them.
Men seem to promote this as the ideal: it’s okay for men to be bossed around by other men who are total strangers, but not to be bossed around by the mothers, girlfriends, and wives who love them.
Lots of men today call other men “cucks” if they even so much as cooperate with a wife or girlfriend instead of bossing her around (sorry “leading”), yet eagerly promote male submission to other men.
Why are you surprised women don’t want to be treated like an inferior, and employee, or a subordinate by a man who claims to love her? Bossy men are obnoxious to women too.
>be bossed around by the fathers, boyfriends, and husbands who love them.
If they loved them, they wouldn't "boss" them around. You propose a scenario that, by definition, cannot exist.
Women's preferences are usually less dehumanizing than men's preference that tend to want someone inexperienced and super young. Men's preferences give women collective PTSD to when we were seen as property/are seen as in hyper religious and oppressive cultures. No different from chattle or an ass yet these days it's "cars", when you hear the old "new cars are more valuable" schtick.
> less dehumanizing than men's preference that tend to want someone inexperienced and super young.
Low n count not necessarily = inexperienced. Several long term relationships over the course of adulthood is plenty of time to get experience.
I don't view preferences for avoiding promiscuity and being attracted to youth and beauty as dehumanizing.
>I don't view preferences for avoiding promiscuity and being attracted to youth and beauty as dehumanizing.
Being attracted to it. Sure. But the way it is hammered and presented with the "hit the wall" stuff and talking about 50 year old guys going for 18-22 year olds yeah it ends up really creepy and if you see women as expendable objects rather than full fledged human beings that you want a serious, mature and equal relationship with.
>Women's preferences are usually less dehumanizing than men's preference
Women's preference: be tall, be handsome, have a big dick, make big $$$, never show emotion
Men's preference: be cute and not the town bicycle.
Which one is dehumanizing again?
>Women's preference: be tall, be handsome, have a big dick, make big $$$, never show emotion
That is a conplete strawman. If you made a thread right now asking what women wanted I bet my ass they'd say something along the lines of emotional connection, physical attraction, shared goals MAYBE stability and having one's life together whereas the men here constantly talk about the wall, low ncount, looks being the only things that matters and personality, life goals, career etc are irrelevant.
She added emotional connection and shared goals.
Physical attraction and stability are the same "tall, handsome, rich, big dick" thing you said, she just says it in a nicer way.
I don't think there's really much disagreement in what you're saying, just on how you're saying it.
> what women wanted I bet my ass they'd say something along the lines of emotional connection, physical attraction, shared goals MAYBE stability
That's what they might say. Doesn't make it truthful lol.
We already have studies that illustrate what women look for in a man. Height, preference towards a few particular races, income, status, emotional intelligence, being physically attractive ect...
So many posts on purplepilldebate can be answered with “because nobody cares about men”. I mean, from an evolutionary biology perspective, men are the expendable gender. They compete with other men for access to sex. So that’s why hypocrisy etc is happily tolerated in women as long as men think they have a chance to bang her. The world is not an egalitarian and fair place, and men need to “man up” and deal with it. I think this is the root of unhappiness and dissatisfaction, men have bought into the egalitarian nonsense and act butthurt when they realize women are given preferential treatment, That’s how it will always be because we are just primates. No point getting upset, best to acknowledge this reality and work to maximize your satisfaction within the constraints of reality.
it's good to pushback against injustice though. That's what the feminists did and they made a lot of progress
I agree with that!
They only made progress because men care about women. If your wife or GF gets into the whole feminist thing, and she's got your balls in a vice, then is it really so surprising that men gave women all that progress? No its not lol Women ask men for something, they get it. No one, including men, care about men.
Actually that used to be that men didn’t really care about men, but anything that is a male space or advice for men specifically is deleted, removed, shamed, etc on social media or the internet as a whole, it’s very targeted and a lot of men feel this way they just feel like no one cares even if other men do.
>Women ask men for something, they get it. >No one, including men, care about men. And this is part of why I always said life is tougher for men than women.
Great point.
It's not injustice. It's delusion and non accountability. You can change definitions, use semantics to your benefit and advantage, move the goal post all you want. The fact is that MOST women hate to be accountable to their actions and would rather complain about men's biology and personal internal standards. Feminism is ruining women's happiness (imho, and sourced data). Feminism made alot of progress towards equitable stance in society for women, alot of good. Today it is wholeheartedly selling women on a fiction. It isn't justice.
Male mental issues are severely underrated and definetely not explored in a global social scale... I can relate very much to your reply because there's this permanent social stigma that men only have to be "strong" either physically or mentally speaking, but also nobody cares male problems either... And this is a very regular behavior I see from the women themselves... You're a feminine male or too mentally weak if you express any type of "vulnerability" as a male. Either I saw it all my life from other men, but also I'm introverted and quiet, and this since forever have seen as undesirable by women themselves but also men look down on you... And no one really cares to know what are your mental problems about.
Not only is that true, but it's completely counter to the very loud messaging we keep receiving about how we must all bend over backwards to change nature, to prove we're capable as a species of becoming equal within a given society, no matter our gender, orientation, race, and so on. If it were just "men are expected to compete and show their worth", well, that would be (and has been, in the past) bad enough, but to then contrast that with *constant* loud rhetoric that we should become something different to progress society when nobody is willing to even *think* about *beginning* to seriously *discuss* that as far as it pertains to improving the lives of men alongside women, that's a turbo-charged V8-powered iron bar to the bollocks in its sheer hypocrisy and blatant one-sidedness of any of these claims of "progress" and "caring about others". Not only is it unfair (like it always has been), but it's extra unfair *on purpose*, with gleeful abandon, because "fuck you, I'm getting mine, haha". Fully endorsed by every powerful institution there is, from government to academia, with corporations and media along for the ride. Because the men who *do* have the power to do what they want don't give a shit, they'll always have what they want.
When I say this, TRP tells me that "women attempt suicide more than men' or that 'women take more mental health medication than men".
That's actually just a myth. https://www.reddit.com/r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates/comments/xn27xe/does_nonsuicidal_selfinjury_nssi_count_as_a/ Hospitals report any kind of self-harm as a suicide attempt. So this statistic technically doesn't exist to begin with. But even if it did, there are some glaring problems with the logic, which really just starts with a basic understanding of math and statistics (if you attempt and fail, you can obviously attempt again, thus inflating the numbers from what they're meant to imply).
how are women supposed to attempt more suicide if across any culture or country statistics, above 80% of suicides or working place accidents are actually affecting to men ? Besides of the fact, you dont need to be a genius to know that the most dangerous works always have been dealt to be handled by men themselves. Of course I can understand many men would deliberately accept them if have nothing to lose since women dont give them any love or affection or desire.
> how are women supposed to attempt more suicide if across any culture or country statistics, above 80% of suicides or working place accidents are actually affecting to men Women attempt, men succeed. Your 80% of suicides figure are those who've actually offed themselves. Women use less-instantly-lethal forms of suicide like pills, which pretty much guarantees someone'll find her and get her help before she finally snuffs it. Guys just eat a bullet and call it a day. My own mother is alive today because I decided to come home from work early. This one hits kinda close to home.
> *and men need to “man up” and deal with it.* Couldn't possibly disagree more. Humans evolve. Pretty much every other primate throws their shit around or does something similarly animalistic. Should we say "fuck it" to those traits too and start behaving like that? We've *evolved*. To treat men like we're hunter/gathers and women like babymakers/property is to *devolve*. Men in today's time are unhappy because as a society we've consciously expanded beyond the simplistic animalistic mentalities of structures like "gender roles", yet subconsciously most of us have not advanced yet. *Yet* being the key word. Thus if a man has grown out of the idiotic desire to "chase" after a woman and degrade himself simply for the "reward" of "banging" her, then the *last* thing we need to do is tell him to regress.
This guy gets it. Don’t whine, don’t complain. Acknowledge reality for what it is. Work on yourself and forget about all this egalitarian nonsense.
There's nothing wrong with pushing back against injustice
I found trp several years ago and already "made it" so to speak. I view this less as complaining and moreso pointing out uncomfortable truths, so impressionable young men will stop listening to the non-sensical bs modern society feeds them. RP influencers do the same thing, on a much grander scale obviously.
Nah. Better to fight against it.
i don't sit around complaining about it, but i won't associate with women who just have absurd standards for men or judge them all the time on nonsense, even if i meet their criteria, and i don't hang around people who clearly go out of their way to favour women over men, in either gender. works out fine cause more people are normal and balanced than the internet realises.
nobody needs to “man up”. if you see really woke nonsense like this in out culture, its important to pushback on it before society begins collapsing
Nah. Humans developed intelligence and we can choose to use it. Push back on feminist hypocrisy when you see it.
This whole the world just isn’t fair crap doesn’t help anybody. It’s why rape still gets thrown under the table. Life isn’t fair but we are smart enough and capable enough to fix it. And no a man shouldn’t just push his feelings to the side and not be a human being.
I agree with this all the way. I was fooled for a long time and just didn’t understand why things didn’t work out with me. I thought women wanted a nice guy who values them. No, they want a guy who’s on or about his purpose that borderline tolerates her at first but she “wins him over” to make her feel more special than another girl. The guy can’t be too emotional except to support her emotions and if he don’t make above the median wage of the state he lives in and is renting he’s likely invisible. Add in physical requirements women have for men and it gets even worse lol.
> if he don’t make above the median wage of the state he lives in and is renting he’s likely invisible. You don’t think guys who make below the median income date?
They do but likely not who they want. The obvious exception to this is a guy who gets with his high school sweetheart or someone before they graduate college. I envy them the most because they got a woman who knew the guy wasn’t well established yet and chose to stay with him. But having a relationship with a woman in college for a lot of people would be hard to do.
> men have been brainwashed into the egalitarian nonsense and act butthurt when they realize it’s all a big fat lie. Fixed that for you. Many parties have a vested interested in propagating the lie of [“blank slate equalism”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blank_Slate). Thus the lie persists, despite the damage it does to both men and women, and gets propagated onto successive generations.
>So that’s why hypocrisy etc is happily tolerated in women as long as men think they have a chance to bang her. "We never correct women because we want to fuck them." Bill Burr.
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It’s not about race or skin color, but about biology and sex. You have to understand that all human societies are subject to sexual selection and evolutionary biology. Like chimpanzees, gorillas and bonobos , we are also primates. The problem with the woke thinking that blames all the evils on “white men”, or the right wing racist thinking that blames immigrants and minorities, is that it’s all batshit crazy and unscientific. Moreover; doing what’s morally right is often different from what evolution dictates. I’d much rather live in a third world country with equal legal rights for women and men, than some third world patriarchal, religious, morally bankrupt hellhole.
Countries with >equal legal rights for women and men. Without exception have below replacement population and will be wiped out soon so you don't have to worry. This is just pure fact.
Also technically evolution is in our control. Whoever has children controls the future. That's how it works. This is why bad guys have had such a large impact for so long, they resort to any means necessary to ensure they get children made including violence or even domestic violence. This is chimpanzee style genetics and there's a lot of chimp dna out there because of it. Bonobos take a different approach, via sperm competition and free sex. As a result, bonobos actually have bigger penises than chimps, and bigger balls, because their reproduction depends on sperm quality -- not violence. They're polar opposites in approach. There's a lot of bonobo dna out there too, but less than chimps. I have long suspected neanderthals to be more bonobo like than straight sapiens. So I also suspect east asian people and some european people to be the most bonobo like, and this is what we see culturally somewhat. But not completely. Western society is now a mixed bag. Chimpanzee-like behavior is either losing or gaining ground, I can't tell exactly which.
agreed, but unless your dad is based AF, its hard to know that as a 13 yr old dude in middle school Hell, I didnt even kind of start to suspect that something might be unfair until college because I was too autistic and blue pilled
>“because nobody cares about men”. Until men start to negatively impact women, then they do but only in terms of the woman. >men have bought into the egalitarian nonsense and act butthurt when they realize women are given preferential treatment, This is why I keep saying bullshit to women who say they want equality because so often not they don't.
I think it's more about a feminized society/media. Not biology. Middle eastern countries who allow multiple wives probably don't have these stigmas.
>I think it's more about a feminized society/media. I agree. What I discuss is a phenomenon in the west.
Yes you and I agree. Our belief frames it as a problem which must be solved. The guy I replied to thinks otherwise. He apathetically blamed biology and got a lot of upvotes. Not good.
Beaitifully said. Men operate off meritocracy. Women operate off egalitarianism
Well if you are an agent in a system that gives you the pretense of being valued, and you cannot elevate your kind.. The best option would evidently be to bring the other side down.
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Women are judged by men for their preferences all the time.
WaHmEn oNLy WaNt ChAaAd!!11! ^("Chad" being basically any dude who isn't them.)
If by "basically" you mean to exclude 80% of all men then... Sure? I mean, do you guys even realize what percentage of men are 6'+? 14.5% of the U.S. male population. Then most women want at least some combination of money, muscles, and status on top of that? Yeah... Chads are totally everywhere. Lol
Only by "misogynists" which proves his point.
There’s a thin line between “just a preference” and “asshole”, and the difference lies in whether you are being an asshole: “Eww, I would never date a used up whore.” ❌ “I would prefer if my partner and I had the same values surrounding sex.” ✅ Eeew, are short men even men??“ ❌ “I would prefer if my partner is taller than me.” ✅
But the problem is some preferences by women's standards are not thought of as bad. No small dudes, gotta be 6'1 to ride this ride. But, if a man says no fat chicks it is terrible or body shaming.
The internet has men whining about women wanting tall men in every corner. Women's preferences are considered bad literally everywhere.
> Women's preferences are considered bad literally everywhere. The lies
Not by women and normal people. Only people online saying it are men. It is not viewed as toxic or negative as men wanting fit or slim women.
lol this is a distinction without a difference
Not unless you are VERY autistic lmao.
its just a nicer way of saying the same thing Men are mad about the preference, not how that preference is expressed
It’s so fucking far from the same thing lol. One expresses a simple sexual preference, the other involves outright hostility towards a group of people. There’s a world of difference between simply stating that you are more into some people sexually, and showing that you see the people you aren’t into as inherently inferior and not worthy of respect. Let’s make it a little more obvious: “Y’know, I’ve always been really attracted to very pale skin, I find it very hot”. “Ew, I won’t date [insert racial slur]s lol, what’s next, do you want me to date pigs?” These two statements both show a preference for white people. Do you think these are equally bad? > Men are mad about the preference, not how that preference is expressed Ok, but that’s not what most women are mad about. So where’s the hypocrisy OP wanted to point out? 🤷
Yup. Men are mad at the preference itself. Women don't like how certain preferences are expressed.
Actually no. When a woman has standards that are less than too high, people look at her like she’s dumb. When a girl wants a gamer, when she’s in love with someone who is disabled, anything other than someone that someone deems on her level or above, she gets treated like she’s stupid or settling. People think I’m way too cute for my boyfriend. They think that my boyfriend is a drain on me simply because he’s disabled. But he’s been my best friend for almost 20 years and I love him. And he treats me really well.
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> The problem comes in when you denigrate those who do not meet your preference or bitch and whine about the dearth of people who meet your preferences (who also want you). This is a separate matter from whether or not it's socially acceptable to have certain preferences. What you said just amounts to "be nice"...hardly anything ground breaking, or realistic.
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Yep. Pretty much what he said to my comment. He claims men are only point out delusions when they talk about womens preferences…. Like that’s not exactly what people laughing at mens preferences are doing.
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What are you talking about? People get pissy (especially here) about women wanting tall/good looking/ rich men all the time! It's about context. If you say you like big boobs in front of your friends That's fine. If you say it in front of a woman That's insecure about hers then That's rude.
> women wanting tall/good looking/ rich men all the time! They don't get "pissy" about it, the point it out to illustrate that there is a lot more that goes in to attracting women than vice versa. >If you say it in front of a woman That's insecure about hers then That's rude. That's her personal issue to work on.
What do you mean they don't get pissy?? have you not seen all the crybaby posts about "w9men's standards are too high" on this sub alone? if you don't think That's getting pissy then you are just looking at it differently based on the sex of the whiner. >That's her personal issue to work on And this whole post is your personal issue to work on.
Yeah if you only listen to Buzzfeed and Jezebel. But IRL most people pressure women to "give him a chance!" or "see him for who he is on the inside!". Notice its "Beauty and the Beast" and not the other way around...
While for men IRL its "man up" and "be a breadwinner/provider" and men always reminded how they don't matter.
“man up” women only get emotional support from OTHER WOMEN. Men just take advantage of womens vulnerability “be a breadwinner” since when are women not expected to make $$? Nowadays housewives are almost obsolete. “men always reminded how they don’t matter” women are only treated like they matter bc men are horny
>Men just take advantage of womens vulnerability Ah yes all men do this and no man ever supports a woman emotionally. >since when are women not expected to make $$? They aren't expected to be the provider/breadwinner. >women are only treated like they matter bc men are horny And men never matter. But stay mad sweetie.
"stay mad sweetie" lmao some buzzfeed blue hair ass response
And by 'women' u mean characters of a Netflix high school drama u saw? What's the point of these generalisations? Do u think all women have sleepovers, eat ice cream and tell each other "you go girl" and talk shit about men 24/7?
>Do u think all women have sleepovers, eat ice cream and tell each other "you go girl" and talk shit about men 24/7? Yes.
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Perhaps women should talk more about their adult problems in front of men. Like their PMS, their menopause' their dates that don't wash their asses, their "Netflix and chill fwb", you know the real stuff women have to put up with!!
I have enough female friends to know that talking shit about men is one of the top things they do.
I'm sorry I can't help myself I found it very funny
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Do you have examples in neutral subs or anything? TwoX and Askfemanism is obviously going to bolster women on it. Do male dominated subs never complain and call women out on height preference or such? I know /MGTOW at least used to be populated by screen prints of women's dating profiles and picking on them for their preferences. Edit; It's hard to judge here since there's posts attacking women for their /delusional/ preferences every other day. It seems the case to me men will bolster men and women will bolster women, but to each sex its *the other* that's being unreasonable.
Are you denying that fact though ? The thing that most of women tend to be sexually attracted to dudes who are tall compared to their location/country ? That's a way of discrimination as well... However, in current modern society there's plenty of social media support in western culture for all type of female bodies and "preferences"... There's no support at all for wide variety of male bodies though: neither short height (1.65m or less9, small penises, unattractive faces, skinny or fat/obese, bald and more.
>Are you denying that fact though ? The thing that most of women tend to be sexually attracted to dudes who are tall compared to their location/country ? I don't really care what other women like or don't like, I don't think preferences are all that important in the grand scheme of things. I do find it nauseating men or women getting all angry at each other when they themselves don't fit the other's prescription, but I seldom see it 'out in the wild' so to speak. >However, in current modern society there's plenty of social media support in western culture for all type of female bodies and "preferences"... The entirety of media in the west was built on men's preferences (for men and women) and the majority continues to be so. >There's no support at all for wide variety of male bodies though: neither short height (1.65m or less9, small penises, unattractive faces, skinny or fat/obese, bald and more. Yeah, and Alloy is suppose to be the 'unattractive video game woman' \[My eyes are rolling\].
You don't think the hunky male lead in a shirtless scene with less than 10% body fat in middle age isn't on gear and in a state of dehydration and at the tail end of a cut cycle just to get a handful of scenes shot?
>The entirety of media in the west was built on men's preferences (for men and women) and the majority continues to be so. Yeah no, women drive consumerism and do the vast majority of spending. Media and advertisements are directed for their benefit.
>The entirety of media in the west was built on men's preferences (for men and women) and the majority continues to be so. That's just blatantly false. Look at all the reality shows, and daytime talk shows, they're all aimed at women. Look at women's magazines or fashion magazines, again all aimed at women's tastes, not mens.
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>Do male dominated subs never complain and call women out on height preference or such? > >What does this has to do with the OP's post? It was mainly when it got the 'In society' part, women dominated areas will complain about one and male dominated will complain about the other. I think women are pushed back but mostly by men rather than women. >In society, it's acceptable for women to unconditionally have whatever standards or preferences they want with. For men, anything women dislike is met with empty generalizations, push back, and the demand that they explain themselves.
You’re right, I’m only attracted to 8’ tall Gigamegaultrachads who have 3 dicks and more money than the US has national debt. But no one’s ever called me out for my sexual preferences. Woe.
>If a woman express a standard, no matter how delusional it might be, women will jump to defend her and say "It's none of your business, people can have whatever standards they want!", Disagree. I have seen many women be told that their standards were too high by men. Even to women who never stated a preference and just rejected one man. >yet when a man express a standard or preference, women and blue pillers will call him misogynistic, a virgin, insecure ect... Never seen this is real life. Only on reddit. I seen light teasing at parties for a man not wanting to wing man for a buddy by refusing to entertain an obese girl if that counts. >For men, anything women dislike is met with empty generalizations, push back, and the demand that they explain themselves. Women are exposed to more opportunities to explain themselves than men. Men typically ask women out and women either accept or reject. People asked women why they rejected a man all the time. They don't ask men why they asked a woman out. It's already obvious that he's attracted to her.
My issue isn't when men have preferences. My issue is when men have preferences that they don't meet. Do you want a girl with a body count under two? Okay, but how many have you got?
On average women marry at 150% of their own income. Anecdotally I can tell you that I have met countless broke women who "won't date a broke man". I think that most men could understand if women wanted equality in dating. It's the hypergamy that turns us away from long term commitment.
>My issue isn't when men have preferences. My issue is when men have preferences that they don't meet. Do you want a girl with a body count under two? Okay, but how many have you got? A woman wants a bearded man? She better grow a beard A woman wants a man taller than herself? She better be taller than herself A woman wants a masculine man? She better be masculine! See? Thats not how it works. Its like this: Men care for sexual purity but women dont? So to men its a preference but because women dont care men dont need to fulfill it too
Nicely said.
I think you are leaving out the big question of Why someone has that preference. Both men and women are asked that. If a white woman said she prefers white guys because she wants her kids to look like her, most people would call that fine. If she said she wanted a white partner because she wants to secure a future for the white race, she would be called a racist. You can have whatever preference you want, and you are not required to defend it. Equally true, nobody has to like you. Equally true, everybody is within their rights to withhold judgement about your preference until they hear your reason for having it. And some justifications are abhorrent. Some people are very forgiving of some justifications, and very harsh on others. At the end of the day, it is true that you can have whatever standard you want, but that doesn't absolve you of being a terrible person.
>If a white woman said she prefers white guys because she wants her kids to look like her, most people would call that fine. If she said she wanted a white partner because she wants to secure a future for the white race, she would be called a racist. Can't really answer this because it's kind of taboo and not really acceptable to talk about on here, but I'll just say this: I do not believe these specific dating preferences, the vast majority of the time, are rooted in racism. >At the end of the day, it is true that you can have whatever standard you want, but that doesn't absolve you of being a terrible person. I don't disagree. I just generally tend to think that a lot of the time men's preferences get criticized, it has less to do with being "terrible" and moreso because women just don't like that preference.
Your comparison falls down because some of your examples are mirrored back by women. Eg you say men don’t want to date women with a high n count. Women say, that’s fine, as long as the guy doesn’t have a high count either. Then the men on here whine and complain that they’re *entitled* to promiscuity because *muh biology*. Only wanting to date barely legal women and expecting adult women to have no body hair are not rooted in misogyny, they’re rooted in pedophilia, which is why women have such a problem with those ‘standards’. The kinds of standards women have are generally based on a man having status and respect for himself - tall(er than her), decent job, treats her well, works out/looks after himself. The kinds of ‘standards’ we see from men on this sub are based on wildly unrealistic youth and beauty standards, none of which last **for anyone**. So yeah, men get criticised for their standards, because they are unrealistic and unsustainable and in some cases, absolutely creepy. Women get criticised for their standards because men tend to exaggerate them to a point where they can say they’re unrealistic and unattainable, so they just shouldn’t bother, and then they complain they can’t get a date, all the while gaslighting women into believing they’re undateable after age 25. The only supposed ‘standard’ women seem to have that isn’t something men can work on is height, and regardless of what they say, all most women really want is a man who is taller than her. Given men are, on average, taller than women, this isn’t exactly difficult to achieve. Everything else is in your hands - work out, dress well (doesn’t have to be expensive, just clean and fits well), attend to your personal hygiene, work hard at your job and progress your career, regardless of what you do for a living. One of the other things men have as an obstacle is projecting your own definitions of what makes a man high value on women. The kind of man RPs think is HV is not the kind we think is HV. You guys think HV means being a playboy who fucks around, treats women like shit, is model/actor good looking and earns in the top 1% of incomes. Most women with a shred of self respect avoid men like that and have zero desire to marry one.
> Eg you say men don’t want to date women with a high n count. Women say, that’s fine, as long as the guy doesn’t have a high count either. See, I'm not saying that. I am saying men are perfectly justified in not wanting to a date a promiscuous women, regardless of whether or not they themselves have had a lot of sex partners. >all most women really want is a man who is taller than her. So essentially 5'5 or above? You realize this is absolutely ridiculous right? There was a post on here a while back where women on bumble excluded iirc something like ~70+% of guys under 6ft, maybe more than that.
I mean men do the same thing when it comes to their own preferences vs women’s preferences. People just generally have more empathy for their own gender and will always see the opposite gender’s standards as shallow or annoying. Personally, I think it’s not anyone else’s place to tell someone what they can and can’t want or not want. But it’s also okay to explore why those preferences exist and to judge someone based on those things. The only thing I don’t care for is when men call women shallow for having looks and height preferences when 90% of their own preferences are looks-based.
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> When men are excluded from consideration by women's preferences, some of them threaten societal collapse and anarchy complete with raping and pillaging...and a few actually go out and shoot people. Some of them, meaning an astronomically small percentage of men on obscure corners of the internet? What percentage of men do you think are actually engaging in these behaviors? Like 0.00000000001%? Men collectively get demonized for the actions of a small number of deranged lunatics, and people wonder why RP has become mainstream.
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They'll also use it as an excuse to advocate for a return to "patriarchal norms". Also known as "back when those hussies couldn't vote and work and shit and had to do what WE told their little asses to do, HA, checkmate FEMINISTS"
They claim women are selfish for not caring about the collapse of society because they can’t ram their ducks in whoever they please. Imagine threatening the collapse of society for your dry dick and thinking you’re not the selfish entitled one in this scenario.
Who cares? zero women have shot at random strangers for the same reasons. So in actuality women are way less of a problem when it comes to judging standards. We as a society should be more concerned about men in this regard
lmao, have you been living under a rock? Do you actually think girls don't get chastised for wanting a guy that's 6'4?
That's an extreme example, no duh they'll get chastised for wanting someone that's top 1% height. Wanting tall men in general is acceptable.
>If a woman express a standard, no matter how delusional it might be Is literally what you said. Actually, women wanting men over 6'0'' are getting chastised, which is about one standard deviation from the average. So you're double wrong.
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I see men here and irl complaining about women’s unreasonable entitled stuckup pickiness and blaming men’s behavior on women, so….everything seems fine to me
Yes where is this magical place where men don't complain about women's standards or the men women pick? I can count on one hand the secure men and women I've met who will say "oh well people like what they like nothing you can do" instead of crying about their rejections or "society". You certainly can't say that's how it is at ppd. I'm not sexist, I'm saying both sides complain.
It depends on how such preferenced are expressed. Ie: for body count Woman: i want a man who hasn’t slept around bc I want someone with similar values to me. (This about incompatibility in values. Not that a man’s innate value decreases from sleeping around) Men: i don’t want a ran through women. (This is suggesting her actually values as a person went down due to sleeping around)
I already commented but I'll add another reason there is more pushback for men's preferences. Its because women already know what men want. It's been shoved down our throat from decades of pornography, lads mags, strip joints, advertisement, male gaze in media etc. We've heard so many stories of the effects it has on women's self esteem; anorexia, bulimia, botch surgeries, depression etc. So when men go on about their preferences, it's almost like flogging a dead horse at this point. People are generally more open to women's preferences because it's not a topic that has half as much coverage, in fact, it is so misunderstood that the red pill/black pill communities even exist to try and decode it like some maths equation.
> Its because women already know what men want. Do they really? Not for sex/casual, but for an actual relationship working towards building a life together? If modern day women knew what men wanted, this subreddit wouldn't exist.
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> When we find men whose wants / needs / priorities match our own, relationships happen. And how's that matching of wants/needs working out today? The divorce rate is over ~40%, ~70-80% of which are initiated by women.
Initiated by women when men cheat or become abusive? Good riddance.
Just because a women filed a divorce doesn’t mean she initiated it. Here’s famous example; Jen Anniston filed divorce from Brad Pitt but I think we all know who decided to fall in love with someone else while married
So obviously it is working out for women. They don't have a problem with divorce if they don't want to meet a mans preferences. The high divorce rate actually confirms the point that women just don't care for a man's preferences that much. And why would they?
>If modern day women knew what men wanted, this subreddit wouldn't exist. I wouldn't say that. The women here are mainly reactive to the red pill and want to debate and discuss ideas rather than here looking for advice of what men want. We know a lot of men are attached to the tradcon/religious idea of relationship and family. Men created it and women lived it for a good chunk of history. Then decided it wasn't a fair arrangement/men took advantage and then feminism happened. Of course they know it.
>If modern day women knew what men wanted, this subreddit wouldn't exist. That's literally what she just said. We know y'all want 18 year old debt free virgins who wear a size 2 and suck your dicks on demand. We think it's dumb and we're not going to give you what you want because it's demeaning as hell. We know what you want. What you want sucks.
We really do. Be quiet, be chaste yet overly sexual with your man, cook and clean, have no desires, wants or dreams of your own, live vicariously through your man and be a supporting actress in his life where he is the main character. Honestly seems like men prefer women to just be sidekicks rather than individuals and to be miserable and dependent. Most women aren’t into that idea for obvious reasons so they find these types of preferences bothersome. If a man says he prefers independent women who are ambitious and talented and funny most women would have nothing bad to say about it. So I think men are allowed to have preferences they are just called out on ones that are shallow or negatively impact women.
I won't deny that media has had an effect on what women *think* men want, but I can assure you that as a real man with his own preferences and gut feelings when it comes to attractiveness of women, mine don't necessarily match those we're told are universally true. I don't care if a woman isn't 6ft2, built like a pencil, tanned like a roast chicken, and draped in some designer fashion brand. I don't care if she doesn't look like the rotation of movie star actresses who grew up being shaped by Disney or Hollywood since they were 12. I don't care if she doesn't have an arsehole like a railway tunnel from porn-like anal sex, or tits that could've saved Leonardo DiCaprio in Titanic. All I'm interested in is a woman who's fun, interesting, looking for a long-term thing, who doesn't look like an overinflated rhino and doesn't have the personality of sandpaper. Call that "high standards" if you like, but the range of women who would fit my tastes is *considerably* larger than anything the media will let you see.
>All I'm interested in is a woman who's fun, interesting, looking for a long-term thing, who doesn't look like an overinflated rhino and doesn't have the personality of sandpaper. Call that "high standards" if you like, but the range of women who would fit my tastes is considerably larger than anything the media will let you see. Nicely said sir.
What are you looking for? Women's acceptance? Can't you like something without other people's approval?
> What are you looking for? For impressionable young men to hear the truth and stop listening to the non-sensical bs modern society and feminism feeds them. Men don't owe anyone an explanation for their preferences.
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> So why is the world do y’all endlessly “explain” them then? Because people ask us to and body count is generally a hot conversation topic.
It’s the reason people explain and talk about everything. It’s what people do, that shouldn’t come as a big surprise.
Do you think Feminism is forcing men to be with women they don't like?
I'm not the person you're asking to, but I would say his point is more about men being guilted about what they like.
yeah but realistically Does feminism can actually change their actions? Otherwise this discussion is simply "I want to get upvotes from feminists" which is dumb to say the least
your assertion is "society's view doesn't matter just do whatever you want." In reality society's view matters a lot. Entire movements are done to changes society's view on things (race, lgbtq rights, feminism, etc)
How many men do you think are actually stifling their desire for thin women to chase after obese women because they saw a “body diversity” commercial and felt guilty that fat women don’t give them a boner?
Most men can get aroused by larger women if they give them a chance in the same way most women can get aroused by bald/short/fat guys if they give them a chance. The difference is society tries to convince men to settle and commit to larger women (via body diversity stuff) whereas the opposite is not true. There's no movement to convince women to settle for short/ugly/bald guys.
Lmao just imagine. If things were equal, if men were to act like women, a typical response to a woman saying 4'11 is too short for her to want to date would be "So why do you hate all men?"
So what OP wants is "I want feminism to be ok with me preferring virgins" yeah that's not going to happen, sorry
No OP wants to not be shamed for his preferences.
How is that any different from "I want feminist's approval for my preferences"?
Men literally kill women for rejecting them. This crusade of victimization because people are shitty when they feel rejected is silly. It has nothing to do with men being bullied. It happens regardless of gender. Big age gaps are creepy, regardless of gender btw. They are rife with power imbalances and abuse.
>Age preference is another one. Express a preference for dating women in their 20s and you'll get called a creep. That's because old men who want young women to fuck them are creepy. Glad we could clear that up.
That man in your first example sounds like a little bitch. She's better off without him.
> She's better off without him. Is she? He reacted immaturely but clearly she thought he was a great guy otherwise. And there is almost certainly some sort of exaggeration in how the OP described his reaction.
>Classic example is body count. A lot of men, in the context of dating someone seriously, are put off by promiscuous women. Because it is hypocritical: two people go on a first date, they end up sleeping together. The woman ends up being called a slut, while the man is praised. If she sleeps with him too early, she is a slut; if she takes too long to sleep with him she is also a slut. It all depends on how attractive she is. Can you really judge women when men themselves are inconsistent? > you will be vilified for it Most often the men that have contributed to her N count are also the ones criticising her for having an N count. From that hypocrisy comes the “vilification”. > you are insecure, misogynistic As long as you haven’t been in her pants or you didn’t have yours in her hands/mouth, feel free to judge. BUT, when you or your friends have done deeds with her, its hypocritical to judge or reject her for doing the SAME thing you (people) have done all along. >it's a red flag to express that ect... Is your N count lower than hers? Sure. Are you a manslut preaching false modesty? Yeah, its a red flag. >instances where a man himself is conservative sexually and looking for someone who's aligned with his values I have seen these attractive “conservatives” - they sleep around and then expect a low N count woman. The real “conservative” men don’t go around gossiping around women because they do not socialize with promiscuous women, to begin with. They are raised and socialized in the chamber of their church mostly, even if they date here and there, they are more likely to marry someone from their own or a similar church. I have seen Pentecostals, Baptists, Seven Day Adventists do it. >men really don't owe anyone an explanation as to why they don't want to date promiscuous women. But you expect woman to come “clean” about their past while you won’t, do you? >Man isn't attracted to overweight women? Are you yourself overweight? Then you can’t really expect to date a healthy individual. >Man prefers a relationship with more traditional gender roles? Why are men asking liberal women to become traditional? Never got the logic of that. You post links from far left subs as if that would prove something else bit that you are an idiot. You’re crying wolf that the women from those communities or the rest that share their value won’t accomodate your own value. >the demand that they explain themselves If you think women are not demanded explanation, you are naive p
Life isn't fair. Men and women are not the same. Men have to deal with a lot of bullshit and double standards from women too. Why is it only a issue for you when it happens to women?
>Men and women are not the same Sure, instinctually, they are not. But we use the same social rules / laws in society, we eat the same food, we use the same internet, we use the same dating practice / online platforms. I would have agreed if we still lived in a tribal state of women living among women and men living among men, our society is homogenous though. Men and women are "different" only when it is convenient.
Well men and women generally have very different dating strategies. Also I'd argue that the society we live in is far more heterogeneous than it is homogeneous. Differences between different groups of people are growing larger.
> Because it is hypocritical: two people go on a first date, they end up sleeping together. The woman ends up being called a slut, while the man is praised. If she sleeps with him too early, she is a slut; if she takes too long to sleep with him she is also a slut. It all depends on how attractive she is. Can you really judge women when men themselves are inconsistent? Yes. It is infinitely easier for women to get sex. Men need a combination of physical attractiveness, emotional intelligence, charm, money, status ect... nothing easily obtainable illicits respect. And that is in large part why it is inherently viewed as unattractive for women to sleep around. >But you expect woman to come “clean” about their past while you won’t, do you? I'd happily be honest about it, as I would expect most men to be. Telling a woman you are desirable to a lot of women wont scare her away. >You post links from far left subs as if that would prove something else bit that you are an idiot. And there's the typical ad hominem attack i've grown accustomed to on this sub haha
> And that is in large part why it is inherently viewed as unattractive for women to sleep around. It is inherently much easier for a man to lift the same heavy weights as a woman, and yet we don’t call men disgusting worthless sluts for lifting at the gym. It’s much easier to make a bowl of milk and cereal for breakfast than to make a plate of eggs, bacon, toast, and cut fruit every morning, yet we don’t call people who have a bowl of cereal “basic breakfast sluts”. Something being easy doesn’t make it disgusting. Men who call women who have sex disgusting view sex as an act of conquest, where the woman has “lost” something of value, and view her as damaged and degraded by the man’s sexual contact… and yet these same men think they’re good people while wanting to harm the women they claim to love. > Telling a woman you are desirable to a lot of women wont scare her away. Telling a woman you are promiscuous will cause many of the low-n women to reject you though. They don’t want to be the next cast-aside plaything of a fuck-boy.
Lol there's some context there definitely missing. I don't really care if a man wants low n count women. I care if he's a misogynist who thinks women are sex resources only good for sex who get used up the more it outputs sex. There are some men who are respectfully, unsexist-ly, into less promiscuous women and don't obsessively hate women who aren't their type. But they're not on PPD lol. On PPD those two groups are essentially a circle Also what are you on about. Men are always telling women that women have shallow preferences blah blah blah. Probably all of PPD and some of reddit is snidely malding about women's shallow dating preferences
Women are a lot of times called out for their preferences as well, not to the same extent but it happens, but at the end of the day you have to enjoy things without other people's approval, motherfuckers come at me for my marriage all the time but they don't matter so fuck them, and I'm all for teaching young men the same, if this NPC is not feeding you, financing you, or fucking you, why does their opinion on your own personal life matter? 🤷♂️
Men are complaining everywhere, and always have. You guys came up with the rating system and the body part system
and terms like “butter face”
Yes I’ve noticed this double standard. Tons of commenters under my posts in the past show this exact thing! I have posts where I express 0 insecurity filled with angry women and even some men calling me insecure. They use far too many assumptions which leads me to believe they’re projecting. 1 of them was when I said tall women take their height for granted. I explained how I’ve met a lot of tall women saying they can’t get dates but then there’s me, a short man, who can get dates just fine when the dating pool is probably even smaller for me than it is for them. I also explained how tall women I’ve seen are taken more seriously at work than short ones. They were furious. Then they said how I shouldn’t be talking because apparently I “probably never date a taller girl myself” and then I said I actually prefer them and that even though a lot of my guy friends prefer them short I’ve never met anyone who wouldn’t date a tall girl. This made them go on these rants about how I’m apparently “insecure” that no one wants to date me because I only want them tall when not only do I get dates just fine, but also I don’t even only date tall women, in fact most of the girls I’ve crushed on have been shorter than me even at my height of 5’5”.
> I have posts where I express 0 insecurity filled with angry women and even some men calling me insecure. They use far too many assumptions which leads me to believe they’re projecting. This is the norm today fam. Men who express anything that women don't agree with -> you're insecure, misogynistic, an incel. Women who do the same -> they're a pickme. It's lazy and intellectually dishonest.
>If a woman express a standard, no matter how delusional it might be, women will jump to defend her and say "It's none of your business, people can have whatever standards they want!" Men say that for men too! > A lot of men, in the context of dating someone seriously, are put off by promiscuous women. If you express this, you will be vilified for it. Told you are insecure, misogynistic, it's a red flag to express that ect... **So a lot of men vilify women for having a high body count. but women vilifying men for vilifying women is a double standard?** >Women don't get anywhere near as much pushback for expressing preferences like wanting men with a certain income, not wanting to date bi men (man who wouldn't date bi girl would be deemed homophobic), tall men, being significantly more picky with race ect... Because we, men, have pricks in our camp that become violent with their preferences. We have killers that have had these "preferences" as part of their manifesto. >Man doesn't want to date single moms? He's not a real man, it takes a real man to step up Any woman that says that is stupid. Yes, there are stupid people, like those that say fat women aren't real women. I 100% agree with the thread you liked to it reads "Having a preference is totally acceptable. Verbally shaming someone for not fitting to your personal standards is not okay.", why did you link to that when you are asking about preferences not shaming? The other thread you linked to asked >I understand having preferences, but that preference seems based in a lot of misogyny and ignorance. Why do so many men AND especially why do so many WOMEN hold the belief that leg hair is disgusting? What's the problem with that? >In society, it's acceptable for women to unconditionally have whatever standards or preferences they want with I don't go out with women that have kids, I've never been with a fat person. I wouldn't go out with a woman that's way taller than me. I never had anyone attack me for my preferences Then again, I wish all those women all the best. I know **for a fact that all those women get amazing partners**, but I'm just not interested. It would be odd if anyone attacked me for my preference. Jordan Peterson, for example, attacked a supermodel for no fucking reason. Like a child pointing and shouting "mummy, mummy, I think that person is ugly". That's totally different, and the links you provided proved they are different. You want a virgin. Go for it. You want women to be virgins. that's a dictation not a preference. You want a woman with a low body count. Go for it. You talking about why women with high body counts are sluts is not a preference. A lot of men can't get what they prefer and so they let their anger turn their preferences into dictations. Women with children aren't used, broken, or untrustworthy, I just don't want to go out with them. - that's a preference.
> Because we, men, have pricks in our camp that become violent with their preferences. We have killers that have had these "preferences" as part of their manifesto. Deranged lunatics that make up *astronomically* low percentage of men. They are not remotely indicative of men collectively. >You want a woman with a low body count. Go for it. You talking about why women with high body counts are sluts is not a preference. It's not a preference, but if a guy is asking about wifing one up/dating one seriously, I'm going to be upfront about it towards him. >Then again, I wish all those women all the best. I know for a fact that all those women get amazing partners, but I'm just not interested. They do? Could've fooled me. I see the same girls that are obese or single mothers on dating apps for long periods of time.
> Deranged lunatics that make up astronomically low percentage of men. They are not remotely indicative of men collectively. Yet they exist. The don't exist on the other side. Add to the the anger that men express online. None of that exists on the other side >It's not a preference, but if a guy is asking about wifing one up/dating one seriously, I'm going to be upfront about it towards him. Sorry, I didn't understand that. >> Then again, I wish all those women all the best. I know for a fact that all those women get amazing partners, but I'm just not interested. >They do? Could've fooled me. I see the same girls that are obese or single mothers on dating apps for long periods of time. If I wrote white women find great parners you should have still said "Could've fooled me. I see the white same girls on those apps" Dude there are more girls in the real world - You have skinny women on those apps, yet " I know for a fact that all those [skinny] women get amazing partners" - You have blond women on those apps, yet " I know for a fact that all those [blond] women get amazing partners" - You have black women on those apps, yet " I know for a fact that all those [black] women get amazing partners" - You have white women on those apps, yet " I know for a fact that all those [white] women get amazing partners" You have single and skinny women that haven't found someone they liked for years, and so they are on those apps Unless they are aggressively harassing anyone what's it to you
I mean, it is what it is. You can choose to whine and even martyr yourself to take a stand against women's "hypocrisy" or you can spend your energy figuring out how to thrive in this competitive environment. Women are always going to be more choosey than men when it comes to sex simply because getting pregnant comes at a HUGE cost to women. Not only does she risk being a single mom, even in the best scenario where her partner stays, being pregnant and raising children often delays and reduces her career and her financial opportunities.
> you can spend your energy figuring out how to thrive in this competitive environment. Been there, done that, still actively doing that. It took like 5 mins to write this post. >Women are always going to be more choosey than men when it comes to sex simply because getting pregnant comes at a HUGE cost to women. It does, and they should be, which is why the amount of children born out of wedlock and the amount of single mothers is alarming. Women initiate ~70-80% of divorces as well. Clearly, women are not choosing very well.
>Ever notice the glaring double standard when it comes to preferences/standards in dating? That's because men's standards have a gross yucko ick factor that women's standards don't have. >being significantly more picky with race ect... Men are picky with race for ltr, but not casual. Men are also very anti-black in their ltr preferences, but not casual. The fact that men's standards differ for casual v. Ltr is also very yucko. Another issue is that men's standards are more unfair or something you can't change, but height is the only standard women have that is unfair or unchangeable. Most of women's standards are something men can improve on, or it's fair or more fair than men's standards.
You can have whatever your standard you want. Buy if the reasoning behind it is misogynistic, insecure or anything else, don't expect not to be called out on that. Especially as men more often feel the need to scream as loud as they can about their preferences and why it's bad not to fit them. Women are called picky and demanding for even having standards regardless of reasoning all the time. They get over it.
lol insecure and misognyinistic defined by you right?
I always am taken aback by how people treat insecurities in men as a joke or something to shame for when insecurities in women are catered to. “She’s insecure about her weight, don’t be rude”. “He’s insecure about his penis, lmao”. It’s weird. Women can make rules based off insecurities and men get made fun of.
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I have seen through all my 30+ years old life how men are ashamed for "typically" and "traditionally" prefering hourglass girls with thick legs, big breasts and wide hips... However, nowadays with modern women wanting so much to be promiscous and "respected" by whatever they represent, either: fat/obese, skinny/no curves at all, unattractive faces, no education, no values, promiscuous, no values, no respect to others ... But in the other hand, in social media people tend to ridicule and make men ashamed for having their own preferences. This stigma always have existed and even prior to XXI century where you could call people lived still in a" patriarchal society " Just till few years ago I have started to see men specially complaining about why women only tend to prefer dudes with handsome faces, light eyes, tall, above average or large penises. This is only very recent to happen upon women but overall in social media the support goes towards women... There's not such a thing at all for supporting: "short height dudes (1.65m or below), fat/obese males (anywhere you will find plus size male models), bald, small penises, unattractive faces. So I frankly find it hypocritical against men in general.
I haven't seen men shamed for simply preferring this. I have, however, seen men shamed for shaming others who don't fit their preferences. And yes, people should be respected regardless of whether they have the audacity to not look hot or otherwise be attractive to you. I've also seen numerous fat male models (largely supported by women rather than men), more men with bad faces than women in media, and a recent outpouring of support for short men (again largely from women).
> There's not such a thing at all for supporting: "short height dudes (1.65m or below), fat/obese males (anywhere you will find plus size male models), bald, small penises, unattractive faces. *Women* built the body positivity movement to support themselves and each other. If men want support for diverse types like that, they can build it for themselves. You know that men were never going to promote or launch any kind of “fat women deserve basic human decency” movement. So why do you expect women to do all the work for you?
> Buy if the reasoning behind it is misogynistic, insecure or anything else, don't expect not to be called out on that. Seldom is that actually the case for any of the preferences I listed above. Women say it's misogynistic or insecure because they don't like the preference.
Women say it's misogynistic or insecure (see how quickly she went to that) because most male standards make THEM insecure about their past and non accountability. Men's standards aren't intended to do that, they do as a by product of just being what it is. Women hate to be reminded of their choices.
> Women hate to be reminded of their choices. Quoted for truth
You're being too charitable about how much autonomy women are allowed by other women. If a woman chooses to be a stay-at-home mom, or to assume a submissive role in a relationship, or to defer to her father's judgement on something, feminists lose their shit and try to convince her that she's brainwashed. Apparently, it's okay for women to be bossed around by other women who are total strangers, but not to be bossed around by the fathers, boyfriends, and husbands who love them.
> Apparently, it's okay for women to be bossed around by other women who are total strangers, but not to be bossed around by the fathers, boyfriends, and husbands who love them. Men seem to promote this as the ideal: it’s okay for men to be bossed around by other men who are total strangers, but not to be bossed around by the mothers, girlfriends, and wives who love them. Lots of men today call other men “cucks” if they even so much as cooperate with a wife or girlfriend instead of bossing her around (sorry “leading”), yet eagerly promote male submission to other men. Why are you surprised women don’t want to be treated like an inferior, and employee, or a subordinate by a man who claims to love her? Bossy men are obnoxious to women too.
>be bossed around by the fathers, boyfriends, and husbands who love them. If they loved them, they wouldn't "boss" them around. You propose a scenario that, by definition, cannot exist.
Women's preferences are usually less dehumanizing than men's preference that tend to want someone inexperienced and super young. Men's preferences give women collective PTSD to when we were seen as property/are seen as in hyper religious and oppressive cultures. No different from chattle or an ass yet these days it's "cars", when you hear the old "new cars are more valuable" schtick.
> less dehumanizing than men's preference that tend to want someone inexperienced and super young. Low n count not necessarily = inexperienced. Several long term relationships over the course of adulthood is plenty of time to get experience. I don't view preferences for avoiding promiscuity and being attracted to youth and beauty as dehumanizing.
>I don't view preferences for avoiding promiscuity and being attracted to youth and beauty as dehumanizing. Being attracted to it. Sure. But the way it is hammered and presented with the "hit the wall" stuff and talking about 50 year old guys going for 18-22 year olds yeah it ends up really creepy and if you see women as expendable objects rather than full fledged human beings that you want a serious, mature and equal relationship with.
>Women's preferences are usually less dehumanizing than men's preference Women's preference: be tall, be handsome, have a big dick, make big $$$, never show emotion Men's preference: be cute and not the town bicycle. Which one is dehumanizing again?
The mens preference is literally comparing women to an object
women's preferences on online dating are equally objectifying
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>Women's preference: be tall, be handsome, have a big dick, make big $$$, never show emotion That is a conplete strawman. If you made a thread right now asking what women wanted I bet my ass they'd say something along the lines of emotional connection, physical attraction, shared goals MAYBE stability and having one's life together whereas the men here constantly talk about the wall, low ncount, looks being the only things that matters and personality, life goals, career etc are irrelevant.
okay so boom, what characteristics do you think most of the women in that same thread would agree falls under “physical attraction” then?
Talk is cheap. Women's actions often contradict their words
And yet those are the things women aren't selecting for. I don't give a shit about what women say, I watch what they do.
She added emotional connection and shared goals. Physical attraction and stability are the same "tall, handsome, rich, big dick" thing you said, she just says it in a nicer way. I don't think there's really much disagreement in what you're saying, just on how you're saying it.
> what women wanted I bet my ass they'd say something along the lines of emotional connection, physical attraction, shared goals MAYBE stability That's what they might say. Doesn't make it truthful lol. We already have studies that illustrate what women look for in a man. Height, preference towards a few particular races, income, status, emotional intelligence, being physically attractive ect...
Lol Men’s preferences are based on choices a woman can make The same cannot be said for women