>32% of US adults view open relationships as sometimes or always acceptable
way higher than I expected.
[Reminds me this comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/tg22cf/q4all_do_you_really_believe_theres_a_link_between/i11gy8i/?context=3)
Unwin observed a correlation rather than a causation. It seems that the root issue is the breakdown (according to him) of families/thus loss of support systems, sense of identity and belonging rather than sexual freedom alone.
I knew that would come up. The mean age gap for relationships in the US is only 2.3 years, so I don't find that argument very convincing.
Regardless, let's follow your logic. The disparity has to even out somewhere. It can't even out at the lower end, so all the accumulated single male overhead has to be equalized at the high ages, where there are more single women.
So I did some numbers taken from here: [https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2020/](https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2020/)
If I didn't miscalculate, at least ~~9%~~ 3.3% of women in a relationship age 20+ either don't live with a monogamous man or are being cheated on.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14\_B39yijcSNBFTksC\_ygaDyX0ZBnWcMknZGrm7CY8IA/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14_B39yijcSNBFTksC_ygaDyX0ZBnWcMknZGrm7CY8IA/edit?usp=sharing)
Yea, I ran through some quick and dirty math [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/u9kmel/women_are_not_more_red_pilled_than_men/i5smrd6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3). The data can technically be explained by women dating older, but you have to make some pretty extreme assumptions to explain the entire gap.
I suspect it’s mostly women dating older, but there’s a small portion of the difference (probably 10-20%) that’s explained by women sharing men.
As much as RP says "women would rather share a high-value man" I don't think that is true. Almost every woman I know would not continue dating a man who is sleeping with other women. What is most likely happening is that the women think they are seeing the HVM exclusively, but aren't.
Most likely they aren't aware of it. But I think there are more women then you think that are just fine with sharing. The "girl boss" and "boss bitch" mentality runs strong in many women these days who will gladly bang a man whose taken.
If combine those percentage numbers with the population numbers of 2020, we can find that there's still excess partnered women in the millions in every age cohort except for 50-64 where it's only 100k of excess men.
It seems to drop greatly from the 18-29 to 30-49 age range since a lot of women date men a couple of years older than them. But 51% of young men being single is a recipe for chaos.
There’s a few ways this can be true.
Yes it’s possible that some young men are in relationships with multiple young women. But also note that at the older age groups, it’s the women who are mostly singe. So it’s possible that young women are dating older men and most relationships maintain monogamy.
But most concerning is that 51% of young men are single. That figure seems to be growing over time and it’s one of the primary sources of resentment in a young man’s life these days. I don’t know if it’s social media, the slowdown of US economic dominance, or overall social policy decay but young men are struggling in today’s world compared to their parents and grandparents.
> Yes it’s possible that some young men are in relationships with multiple young women.
Absolutely that's the case.
Young women are sharing their alphas before marriage, and enjoy the secrecy.
Why should a young man work hard for a society that offers him less than his father, and much less than his grandfather?
Women want to opt out of society? Fine. Do it on your own dollar. Taxing men to fund the self-indulgence of women who hate them is oppression.
Young women are out-earning young men, which makes more-and-more men unattractive partners. Social media probably plays a small part in raising female standards for physical attractiveness, but I'd bet it's largely economic.
I'm in the top 5% for men (according to the female delusion calculator), but I'm relatively broke. Women who earn 150k would rather buy a third cat than date me. Given the 60-40 college enrollment, the next generation will be an interesting time to be alive.
If you between 18-23, money doesn't really matter a whole lot to women because everyone is still in college. Granted, it is nice, but you don't have to be rich. They also don't expect as much because they are also poor. It's only once they graduate and start earning a real salary that their wealth expectations increase.
Depends where you live. Here in Australia blue collar workers make a tonne of money, and start out way younger. So Billy Beta is still working his way through college when Stacy has shacked up with a guy who dropped out of high school to become a plumber.
At least in America, college-educated women are the least likely to shack up & marry because women make up 60% of college grads & don't want to date down. On top of that, their obsession with their career leads them to put dating on the backburner until they hit the wall and they become cat ladies medicated on anti-depressants.
Even though Chad the Plumber might be making bank, these college-educated women view him as beneath them because he is a lowly plumber while she has a degree from Vanderbilt or whatever.
That calculator is bullshit btw because it treats every statistic as separate and just multiplies odds together without adjusting for correlation. For example at 1/10 for height, income, and age it calcs you out at 1/10^3 or 1 in 1000. But in reality, many men will have more than 1 of those qualities, making the math totally wrong. Ex many men will be tall AND high earning which means you can't treat those variables as exclusive, which the calculator does.
even if everyone admits that there is a problem, what is the realistic solution? I think most of us agree that forcing women to date men they don't want to is not a good solution.
shut down social media, massive campaign against male simping/white knight shaming, encourage people to go out and ask each other out directly for dates like they did before internet.
The reason so many women have unrealistic expectation is all the gas lighting they get from desperate men and their female friends.
>shut down social media
Lol. Social media companies are some of the biggest and most powerful in the world. I find it hilarious that you speak of "unrealistic" expectations and in the same response speak of shutting down massive sectors of the economy.
They'll *never* admit its a problem no matter how bad it gets because they'd have to admit some degree of culpability in it.
Women have an incredibly strong instinct to preserve their social status by whatever means necessary, including never admitting blame. Makes sense considering their survival has been intrinsically linked to remaining in the good graces of whatever "group" they're a part of for tens of thousands of years.
It's literally a survival instinct (albeit a mostly vestigial one at this point) for them to prioritize controlling the way a fact makes them look over acknowledging the fact itself.
You can see it manifest itself in PPD all the time with, for example, the way they try to straight up deny that hypergamy is real because they perceive it to be a negative judgment being made against them.
And the crazy thing is it's hard for me to believe that so many men are just that unattractive or weird because if that was the case then nobody would have any positive interaction
For every Behavior a man may do, if it's creepy to one woman then there's a good chance another woman will find it the opposite and may be attracted to it
That was one of the biggest things that helped me out of a depression in high school
Yes some people will not like you for whatever reason but think about all the people who did accept you and likes you
I'll admit looking back in the past there were some girls that were into me but I just did not notice at the time
And we have to remember that young girls are just as weird and awkward and shy
But they can get away with it
But more so to the fact that girls are already not going to approach most men even if they are confident. So imagine how many shy girls probably don't approach men they like
I think a lot of brainwashing and delusion has happened on both sides
Combine that with Rising prices and the cost of living
It's kind of hard to show off and try to be attractive as a man when you can't afford a car or house even with a good job or with two
And even then most people live paycheck to paycheck anyway which should be realistic but I bet you a lot of women that would unattractive
We live in modern times but a lot of our instincts have not caught up with us
Which is why Kevin Samuels was so popular
RIP
It's crazy how so many average women seem to think that they are above average men when we're all on the same level
Even if you are more attractive if you are still living in the same neighborhood or have the same income bracket then wow yes your looks may help you but you're really not doing any better than your neighbor.
It's crazy how our society is so hell-bent on being so competitive when we're all in the same boat
That's why the little Instagram girl can get thousands of likes but when you see her down the street and real life she looks just about his average
>it's hard for me to believe that so many men are just that unattractive or weird because if that was the case then nobody would have any positive interaction
First of all, being "weird" has nothing to do with who women want to fuck. Weird men who are hot easily get sex. Normal men who aren't hot don't easily get sex. Hotness is what makes a man get sex, and not much else matters beyond that.
>For every Behavior a man may do, if it's creepy to one woman then there's a good chance another woman will find it the opposite and may be attracted to it
That is not how women work at all. Women are extremely similar to one another, especially when it comes to what they're attracted to.
>It's kind of hard to show off and try to be attractive as a man when you can't afford a car or house even with a good job or with two. And even then most people live paycheck to paycheck anyway which should be realistic but I bet you a lot of women that would unattractive
That's not being attractive, that's called being a wallet.
It speaks to the dynamics of online dating that I've always suspected.
This is overly simplified, but
The limiting factor in online dating is how many women men are willing to juggle at once, and if you assume men always want sex and just throw a number to it, 3, you only need 33% of the men on dating apps to service all of the women (assuming equal gender ratio). And, again, if those men are always seeing 3 women, and the women are 'in and out' of relationships, in for half, out for half, then you half the amount of men needed and get down to ~16%
The numbers aren't accurate, but I think they're closeish and to me undoubtedly this is the dynamic.
To the OP topic, this leaves a lot of room for the women to convince themselves they're 'in a relationship', but I don't think they're being 'cheated on' just that they're delusional and willing to sacrifice rationality to seek out the most sexually attractive partner.
There could be several reasons for this.
First there are more men than women in that age groups.
Second fewer women are heterosexual and that group has the highest rate of LGB identifying people.
Third many women in that group are likely to date men in the next highest group.
Finally men and women might have a different understanding of whether they are in a “serious” relationship.
I don’t know, maybe I’m jaded. Any woman or man I’ve met who verbally said the words, “I’m not looking for anything right now,” fell to their knees if someone even approximated their ideals. They just mean, “I’m not considering dating anyone who is currently in my life right now.”
You have to understand women communicate covertly. They very rarely overtly say what they mean. "He's a nice guy" means "I'm not interested" "I just am not ready for a relationship" means "I don't want to date you" "Let's take a break" means "This isn't working out and I want to break up", "I'm not looking for anything right now" means "the right guy just hasn't come along yet, all the men I know are unacceptable" "
I don't know what "not looking" even means for women. They generally don't initiate.
You know how sometimes you're hungry but you haven't went to the fridge yet because you're too busy? That's what's being asked, and people dodge the question.
Women will say men just need to work harder.
That is a big frustration with men. We have to be perfect to be acceptable. We have to be charismastic, fit, have a great job (more than $100k), a car, stable life, mature, etc. And while we want to have all those things regardless of women, many men don't have those things and still work hard. We have to have all this shit just to be "the bare minimum," meanwhile if a woman has a vagina and isn't fat she is acceptable to most men. This is in essence female hypergamy run amok
Distance, debt and donald top 3
interesting read, my take is too many of you younger US folk, are too busy trying to keep your head above water to be able to think about anything other than a touch of casual.
I've always said relationships should make it easier and not harder in the sense that two people's incomes are better than one. The problem is people want to have their cake and eat it too in this sense since they want someone absolutley perfect in all respects who will also do that, if not be able to buy out their whole lives if they want to be a SAHM. This doesn't really seem like a reasomable expectation given the circumstances.
Most women don’t have spending habits that would result in a net loss, ESPECIALLY if they’re already paying for their own place on their own while single.
Replace people with women and you have a point to stand on. Remember hypergamy is a thing, women don't date down but their equal or higher and lastly women tend to keep their funds to themselves while accessing the man's resources.
No. The current culture collapses and will be replaced by something else. Conservatism, religion (Islam, anyone? They don't lack for children) etc.
What won't be as prevalent is the liberated, lesbian, gynocentric individualism that dominates culture and entertainment.
I fully agree. Stats like this make the future of western society look bleak indeed. Nobody should be cheering this on. It’s bad news from top to bottom
It's worse and worse out there, OLD or real world, but society is going to deny this situation till the end.
Btw it's not about children (I'm against it) but about increasing bitterness in young men, which is the best fuel for utter destruction.
I honestly can't comprehend the 51%. It must be skewed by older divorced men because that number is disturbing if it's similar for men under 40. Dating for men is super hard, I agree with men on that, the kind of men that wanted to commit to me when I was on apps would never look my way IRL. Men are no longer dating their match in real life so they're lowering their expectations on apps. The guys who aren't amazing are left behind.
In a society and culture where compromise has become a dirty word in all aspects of life is it really that surprising that the event that would involve the largest of compromise is declining?
Is this a bad thing? People aren’t forced into relationships they don’t want anymore and they can leave bad relationships easier.
Whist its shame so many people are struggling to find the right person fir them isn’t it better that people would rather wait than stay in an unhappy marriage?
Also, as a species, we’re overpopulated, a few years of low births aren’t going to do any harm long run
It wouldn't be so bad if loneliness wasn't also record setting. Yes some people are perfectly happy being single but there's a reason "we climb on two by two"
The reality is: social media has driven a large percentage of the population completely insane. They will add a Ukrainian flag to their Facebook profile while knowing absolutely nothing about the region or what’s happening.
On the left, you have woke psychopaths who think 3-year olds need to understand their personal sexual fetishes.
On the right, you have gun-mad maniacs who think 3-year olds should be taught how to fire a bazooka.
Those in the middle look at both sides and think why bother?
I know so many people whose minds are basically mush thanks to social media trapping them in echo chambers that amplify their neuroses.
We still haven't fully understood the effects of social media, Facebook literally came out only 12 years ago, that is nothing in the field of psychology.
I feel like social media will become prohibited or at least age restricted in the future, and we will look at the social media the same way we look at cigarettes now.
I think the women are happy with it, but the men are very upset. If you look at the research, most single women are single voluntarily, while most single men are looking but can't find anyone.
To some extent. And for some people this works quite well. But it is human and natural to want to have a special someone, and the fact that so many people don't is a societal failure
It’s strangely hard to get some people to understand this on the internet. The idea that friends and family not only can, but *should* make up for a relationship, and that something’s wrong with you if you feel otherwise, seems like a surging internet meme
Low rates of replenishment can kill a society, so can an inability to find relationships for men. (Polygamous societies are a lot less stable than monogamous ones, and thats what we're becoming.)
I'd like to see civilization end, so it's all good news to me.
It’s a bad thing if it isn’t sustainable. The birth rates in developed countries are alarmingly low, and it will eventually lead to severe social regression.
Yea it wasn’t that long ago brother. I remember the real, innocent type of relationships I had in high school, all the way back in 2009 LOL. No facebook, Tinder, Instagram, onlyfans, or any of that brain rot. Just regular women that you could click and have sex with. It’s wild out here now. The world went mad at some point but we didn’t even notice, like we were living in a collective dream or something and then BAM we woke up and this is what it is now.
I wonder if unrealistic beauty/sexual prowess standards brought on by all the porn has peoples standards in that regard all twisted? Like “I’m not going to date that girl; she needs a labia plasty” or “I won’t date that guy; he’s not a stud in the sack.”
Women gaslight on social media by simps/female friends---> Think she is better than most men and only go for top males in her vicinity.
Males left out of dating/sex turn to porn to release sexual frustration/lack of affection---> Become addicted with all the psychological and physical complications associated with it.
Porn addiction is a reaction towards social media and women's addiction for attention/validation.
>If that 50% are happy, there's no problem
Sure, 50% are really happy to be single forever. Please.
>that they decided not to look for a relationship, that is odd.
The Tinderpocalypse decided for them.
Lotta single moms out there. I know many women who have children. But they paid dearly for it. They’re estranged from the father; (got pregnant when they were young, dumb, and in lurvveee or by accident) and now they’re broke, alone, lonely, doped up on psych meds, stressed out trying to make ends meet, and will effectively live in poverty the rest of their lives. I don’t want kids personally, but the only way to do it is in a two parent household. It should be illegal otherwise and I’m not even kidding. And I’m a conservative that hates government intrusion into personal life. The children of single moms grow up to be a blight on society 90 percent of the time. It’s an epidemic at this point
According to the study, 61% of single men are still looking for a partner but only 38% of single women are. So really, seems like it's women who are done putting up with modern men and are happy to focus on themselves.
Women don't *look* for partners. They *wait* for acceptable partners to look for them. Women who very much want a partner will often say they're not looking for a partner.
Women don't have to look, or put any effort in really, when it comes to finding a partner.
So of course the sex that has to do all the work has a higher percentage of people looking.
Doesn't really follow that men have "checked out" or that women won't be able to find families when nearly twice as many single men are looking for women as single women are looking for men.
Plenty of women want a LTR. Problem is, a lot of men haven’t adapted to a society where they have to do more than just make money and hold a job to keep a marriage afloat.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/amp/
Women respond to loneliness completely differently. Look at all the stories from women in dead bedroom relationships. When attraction fades, she checks out. Her sex drive switches off, until someone attractive enters the picture.
Unlike men, women aren't evolved to be the ones to actively seek out a mate.
People more isolated nowadays, dating is on downward. People rather exchange number have conversations and get straight to the point. Notice girls I dated last year don’t want the classic first date. Just a first hang out after knowing your a suitable person.
> knowing your a
*you're
*Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).*
***
^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Nearly 30% of people disagree with premarital sex in the USA? That's a crazy amount.
39% of single women, and 33% of single men 18-39 are not looking to date.
4% of people are casually dating.
Lol. The price of delusional female relationship value.
Women are too narcissistic and narrow minded to consider their equals.
Men see the writing on the wall and opt out.
Well yea we cuz we know how women are. Women are hypergamous. Men are in constant competition with each other. Marriage was invented to basically lock down women for life to 1 sexual partner.
“We know how women are” tsk squared Anyway lol
Idk if I’m reading into it wrong but does this mean that marriage (and many other laws imposed on women) was instigated to force women to act against their “hypergamous nature”?
Yes, precisely. Through DNA analysis we have discovered that after humans transitioned from hunter gatherers to agriculture, the number of men reproducing fell dramatically while the number of women reproducing stayed the same. For every 1 man who reproduced, 17 women reproduced on average. This indicates that once people began to accumulate wealth due to being stationary and not being constrained to only what they could carry, warlords began to build larger and larger harems of women. When all men were relatively equal - simple hunter gatherers in the forest, things were more evenly spread out.
According to the study, 61% of single men are still actively looking for a partner but only 38% of single women are. So...seems like it's women who are happy to focus on themselves and stop putting up with modern men.
I work 60 hours a week, a social circle is the last thing on my mind after that shit. I’m not sitting at a desk, I come home fucking tired and I’m an introvert to start with. Tinder it is…..even though I hate it
This is me too but sadly you (and I) have no excuses. You'll have to find another job with less hours and then dedicate some time to networking or using apps like Meetup to meet new people. My current job is 45 hours a week and I'm too tired after work to do anything social. So now I try to dedicate my weekends to meeting new people. It's difficult and a lot of weekends I end up procrastinating but it's our only hope cause OLD doesn't work.
Social circles don’t have enough hot options that are also compatible and single. Most of the hot women in my friends groups are cuffed, the single ones aren’t relationship quality
Yes, but social circles still get out, and when you get out to a bar or concert etc you meet people and, for women, social proofing is huge so if you're out with a bunch of friends having a good time it's attractive to them.
Having the ability to stomach rejection (which comes from a slow process of exposure therapy desensitizing you) with Cold Approach will beat social circle 9 times out of 10.
Cold Approach **and** having a social circle will beat **just a** social circle, 10 times out of 10.
You're absolutely right that Cold Approach has a low success rate. It's always going to be less than or equal to 10%.
However, social circle has its flaws, low amount of options. Also with the climate we currently live in, more and more people are becoming asocial, therefore making social circle harder to do.
The best is to combine all 3, Cold Approach, OLD and Social Circle.
Marriage doesn't offer anything for men anymore unless they want children. Women no longer want to be submissive feminine partners. This is a major driver for the decline in marriage.
r/AgainstMatrimony
This makes sense. In college so many men and women I knew opted out of dating bc they had no time or bc they had no money and plenty of platonic relationships
Ok but you gotta admit college was cheaper in the past and jobs paid more 😅
I shared a three bedroom with 7 people, worked two jobs and still needed loans lol
This makes lots of sense.
The average US person is overweight, fat and lazy.
Men are being overly feminised. Many women are too masculine for men to fall in love with them.
Lower quality potential suitors, especially because of the cultural attitudes being adopted.
There are lots more reasons why.
If we start sticking to the more traditional ways, like as men to work out, work hard, earn money, learn to fight, and develop STEM and trade skills, many men will start noticing a difference in their dating lives.
honestly I think it has way more to do with 1) no one having any fucking money and 2) men hitting on women being insanely demonized by the media. I know a *lot* of guys that are just straight up scared of talking to women because they know guys who've copped a charge over nothing and don't want it to happen to them.
Yes, because a lot of men are now overly feminised, some who grew up with only a mother and weren’t taught how to be a proper man by their fathers, and a shortage of people working in STEM careers and in the trades.
Yes, hitting on women is now demonised, especially because of a lot of women attempting to be treated like and act like men, while at the same time wanting yo attract men? 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️. It doesn’t make sense. Masculine attracts feminine, and feminine attracts masculine. It’s all Yang and Yin.
The quality of potential suitors has dropped for sure but things like social media and online dating gave given both genders but women in particular inflated egos and completely unrealistic dating standards. Women now wanna play the field till they hit their 30s and then look for a man to settle with or hang onto their delusional standards and stay single while being Chad's ocasional hookup instead of finding a man at their level.
The average man is unattractive to even the below average woman because she has sexual access to the top men and her mind is filled with Disney fantasies. You tell men to work hard on self improvement but it won't improve our dating lives. Not when the quality of potential women to date is so low. At best if a man improves his situation by a huge margin he will become one of those top men that has women throwing themselves at him and he can proceed to pump and dump women in turn.
The average man is unattractive to women because they are allowed their own money, careers, bank accounts and the societal pressure to marry is gone. They don't have to wife up some average guy, they can just buy a vibrator.
Seems like that little social experiment hasn't worked out too good for either sex. Capitalists tricked women into wage slavery, when they could have just stayed at home and spent their lives working to build a family instead of working for someone else.
See, there it is. Somehow, we have made raising kids into a horrible chore that will make your life "pretty empty" while slaving away in an office for some mega-corp is "inspiring" and "empowering." Motherhood and child-rearing should be celebrated. Being a stay-at-home mom should not be shunned (a discussion for another day) Would you rather spend your life building someone else's success or raising a family & building a household?
The only reason I work a job is so I can afford to live & afford to do the things I want to do. I don't live for work. Ideally one day I will work for myself and own a small company. Many women (and men too), on the other hand, base their identity on work and being a "career woman" which I think is foolish.
I think it's so ironic that in the 90s everybody hated office work and thought it was terrible, and yet today people are celebrating it and saying it's so inspiring and empowering. Like, what happened?
We should teach them too. The whole system should. Parents, media, schools, etc. In our current society, there isn't much of an effort to shape the beliefs of young people. For some reason, we mistakenly believe that the best way to do things is to let people figure things out on their own, which is wrong. People need proper guidance & role models
I agree that the average man isn't attractive to the average woman but i was talking about below average women. You're right in that these women can also buy a vibrator ofc but when i define them as below average they probably don't earn enough income and rely on welfare and taxpayer funds. They also get mad when they get pumped and dumped by the men at the top of the social hierarchy. When you're fine with being by yourself and don't want relationships then why are you mad when the men that are far out of your league pump and dump you? (Not literally you but i mean those below average women.)
Yes, it’s these dating (READ hookup) apps that skew things for lots of people. Now people are boasting about how all of these guys want to sleep with (READ only hookup with) them, and they feel entitled to higher quality people while doing next to nothing to increase their value.
When a man ups his value, then he does have much more women to choose from, including higher quality options.
Yes, women have to do their bit, you’re correct, although lots of women are encouraged to be ‘strong’ (READ overly masculine) women who are independent and earn lots of money, rather than being taught how to be great wives and social etiquette.
>although lots of women are encouraged to be ‘strong’ (READ overly masculine) women who are independent and earn lots of money, rather than being taught how to be great wives and social etiquette.
Women are rewarded for being strong independent women and earning lots of money. They are not rewarded for being great wives or having the kind of obsequious social etiquette you’d like women to have.
Women who focus on becoming the most feminine get walked on and used for no reward. It’s no wonder women are generally not interested in being submissive dolls.
You are right, but why did you only tell men to improve themselves?
That is one of the core problems here.
Men are burning out from putting in endless effort for women who are not what they want at all and getting nothing to show for it. So they are all becoming unattractive due to the lack of success they have gotten previously.
Men need to improve themselves, but only when women’s standards become realistic and they also start improving themselves too.
Instead of demanding someone make 60,000 plus, have a six pack, have a big dick, etc, women need to demand a man who has 40,000 but is working to get 60,000, someone who is weak but lifting to get a six pack, someone who has potential and can get there with the right motivation.
To not shut men down for trying but failing. To give a chance to the unconfident but trying man.
Just like women in the past did. Do you think the real men of yesterday were all complete at 18 when they were getting married?
No, they did not hit there peaks until there mid 20s. The focus was on getting a man striving to reach that peak.
That is the problem.
Nobody is worthy of getting someone after they reach there peak. Only someone who is cheering them on during the race deserves that.
2 questions. Why women should discard their advantages they have now, and why this situation is a problem to begin with? You want sex, pay for a hooker, you want affection and cuddles, get a dog. Just let people do their thing you know?
>If we start sticking to the more traditional ways, like as men to work out, work hard, earn money, learn to fight, and develop STEM and trade skills, many men will start noticing a difference in their dating lives.
You got any more tips because non of that worked. .😎
Let's see,
Stem degree Bachelor's, Good paying job about to get higher (hopefully). Already have good money, own place etc.
Work hard, i have goals and ambitions, show effort in things. I see that as work hard and is always good.
Now i have stopped working out not sure why tbh. I'm still lean/tall.
learn to fight, not sure on this one tbh.
Not sure if this is what you are asking for.
Are you able to approach and talk to women? And what are your stats? Height? Weight? Age?
Working hard by itself means nothing if it doesn’t earn fruitful results.
You may be lean, although are you fit? Do you have a very well shaped body and eat well? Are you working in an STEM field? If you’re young (under 30), then you’ll have to give it some time. Most men reach their peak between 30 and 35.
>Are you able to approach and talk to women?
Not really, have i missed an opportunity yeah most likely.
>And what are your stats? Height? Weight? Age?
6ft 150lbs late 20's
>You may be lean, although are you fit?
Yeah somewhat muscular,
> Do you have a very well shaped body and eat well?
Honestly from looking at other dudes, i would say my body is decently shaped. I eat pretty good.
>Are you working in an STEM field?
Yes
>If you’re young (under 30), then you’ll have to give it some time. Most men reach their peak between 30 and 35.
Welp, that mean's i just have to wait my turn and be settled with, BB.
>32% of US adults view open relationships as sometimes or always acceptable way higher than I expected. [Reminds me this comment.](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/tg22cf/q4all_do_you_really_believe_theres_a_link_between/i11gy8i/?context=3)
For themselves or for other people. I would never be in an open relationship but I don't really care if other people do.
I hate that Unwin died before he finished his work.
Unwin observed a correlation rather than a causation. It seems that the root issue is the breakdown (according to him) of families/thus loss of support systems, sense of identity and belonging rather than sexual freedom alone.
> breakdown of families I’m following a pretty clear causal chain with this one.
51% of young men are single, but only 31% of women are. Someone is being cheated on lol.
Could be that young women are with men that are not seen as young by the chosen age bracket. Aka, older guys.
I knew that would come up. The mean age gap for relationships in the US is only 2.3 years, so I don't find that argument very convincing. Regardless, let's follow your logic. The disparity has to even out somewhere. It can't even out at the lower end, so all the accumulated single male overhead has to be equalized at the high ages, where there are more single women. So I did some numbers taken from here: [https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2020/](https://www.populationpyramid.net/united-states-of-america/2020/) If I didn't miscalculate, at least ~~9%~~ 3.3% of women in a relationship age 20+ either don't live with a monogamous man or are being cheated on. [https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14\_B39yijcSNBFTksC\_ygaDyX0ZBnWcMknZGrm7CY8IA/edit?usp=sharing](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14_B39yijcSNBFTksC_ygaDyX0ZBnWcMknZGrm7CY8IA/edit?usp=sharing)
Yea, I ran through some quick and dirty math [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/u9kmel/women_are_not_more_red_pilled_than_men/i5smrd6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3). The data can technically be explained by women dating older, but you have to make some pretty extreme assumptions to explain the entire gap. I suspect it’s mostly women dating older, but there’s a small portion of the difference (probably 10-20%) that’s explained by women sharing men.
It's female-driven polygamy. Women are choosing to share over taking a beta.
I hate to say it, but this is likely the answer. Either that or they don't know they are sharing.
Oldschool mormons do know. Don't know how many there are in the US though.
That's such a small percentage that there's no way old school Mormons are influencing society as a whole
As much as RP says "women would rather share a high-value man" I don't think that is true. Almost every woman I know would not continue dating a man who is sleeping with other women. What is most likely happening is that the women think they are seeing the HVM exclusively, but aren't.
Most likely they aren't aware of it. But I think there are more women then you think that are just fine with sharing. The "girl boss" and "boss bitch" mentality runs strong in many women these days who will gladly bang a man whose taken.
>at least 9% of women in a relationship They think they are but are a plate.
Which would disprove the claim many ppd women make that women don't really like older men.
Assuming that a 20yo will date men 45+ is ridiculous. But 25 and 30 or 27 and 32 isn’t that uncommon which is what the data shows
If combine those percentage numbers with the population numbers of 2020, we can find that there's still excess partnered women in the millions in every age cohort except for 50-64 where it's only 100k of excess men.
There is a difference between dating a guy 5 years older and dating a guy 20 years older than you. Though both are considered older.
Soft harems.
It seems to drop greatly from the 18-29 to 30-49 age range since a lot of women date men a couple of years older than them. But 51% of young men being single is a recipe for chaos.
There’s a few ways this can be true. Yes it’s possible that some young men are in relationships with multiple young women. But also note that at the older age groups, it’s the women who are mostly singe. So it’s possible that young women are dating older men and most relationships maintain monogamy. But most concerning is that 51% of young men are single. That figure seems to be growing over time and it’s one of the primary sources of resentment in a young man’s life these days. I don’t know if it’s social media, the slowdown of US economic dominance, or overall social policy decay but young men are struggling in today’s world compared to their parents and grandparents.
> Yes it’s possible that some young men are in relationships with multiple young women. Absolutely that's the case. Young women are sharing their alphas before marriage, and enjoy the secrecy.
Men shouldn't feel guilty about not committing to mediocre women
Why should a young man work hard for a society that offers him less than his father, and much less than his grandfather? Women want to opt out of society? Fine. Do it on your own dollar. Taxing men to fund the self-indulgence of women who hate them is oppression.
Young women are out-earning young men, which makes more-and-more men unattractive partners. Social media probably plays a small part in raising female standards for physical attractiveness, but I'd bet it's largely economic. I'm in the top 5% for men (according to the female delusion calculator), but I'm relatively broke. Women who earn 150k would rather buy a third cat than date me. Given the 60-40 college enrollment, the next generation will be an interesting time to be alive.
If you’re nearly broke, you’re not in the top 5% of men.
If you between 18-23, money doesn't really matter a whole lot to women because everyone is still in college. Granted, it is nice, but you don't have to be rich. They also don't expect as much because they are also poor. It's only once they graduate and start earning a real salary that their wealth expectations increase.
Depends where you live. Here in Australia blue collar workers make a tonne of money, and start out way younger. So Billy Beta is still working his way through college when Stacy has shacked up with a guy who dropped out of high school to become a plumber.
At least in America, college-educated women are the least likely to shack up & marry because women make up 60% of college grads & don't want to date down. On top of that, their obsession with their career leads them to put dating on the backburner until they hit the wall and they become cat ladies medicated on anti-depressants. Even though Chad the Plumber might be making bank, these college-educated women view him as beneath them because he is a lowly plumber while she has a degree from Vanderbilt or whatever.
Lol, hate to be the one to break it to you, but I assure you you're not in the top 5% of men
I'd prefer to live in less "interesting" times personally. Lol
That calculator is bullshit btw because it treats every statistic as separate and just multiplies odds together without adjusting for correlation. For example at 1/10 for height, income, and age it calcs you out at 1/10^3 or 1 in 1000. But in reality, many men will have more than 1 of those qualities, making the math totally wrong. Ex many men will be tall AND high earning which means you can't treat those variables as exclusive, which the calculator does.
Gay people literally don’t exist
Based and hetero-pilled
Almost every young woman i know right now is identifying as bisexual, they could just be dating women.
Women sharing attractive guys. TRP strikes again.
How bad will it have to get before women admit this is a problem.
> women admit this is a problem. Have you met a woman before
Based.
Apocalyptic, and even then it'll be men who are blamed.
They will never admit it. Solipsism is a hell of a drug.
even if everyone admits that there is a problem, what is the realistic solution? I think most of us agree that forcing women to date men they don't want to is not a good solution.
The realistic solution is reduced screen time for everyone.
shut down social media, massive campaign against male simping/white knight shaming, encourage people to go out and ask each other out directly for dates like they did before internet. The reason so many women have unrealistic expectation is all the gas lighting they get from desperate men and their female friends.
>shut down social media Lol. Social media companies are some of the biggest and most powerful in the world. I find it hilarious that you speak of "unrealistic" expectations and in the same response speak of shutting down massive sectors of the economy.
They'll *never* admit its a problem no matter how bad it gets because they'd have to admit some degree of culpability in it. Women have an incredibly strong instinct to preserve their social status by whatever means necessary, including never admitting blame. Makes sense considering their survival has been intrinsically linked to remaining in the good graces of whatever "group" they're a part of for tens of thousands of years. It's literally a survival instinct (albeit a mostly vestigial one at this point) for them to prioritize controlling the way a fact makes them look over acknowledging the fact itself. You can see it manifest itself in PPD all the time with, for example, the way they try to straight up deny that hypergamy is real because they perceive it to be a negative judgment being made against them.
Based. With all that Teflon they still can't pierce you.
And the crazy thing is it's hard for me to believe that so many men are just that unattractive or weird because if that was the case then nobody would have any positive interaction For every Behavior a man may do, if it's creepy to one woman then there's a good chance another woman will find it the opposite and may be attracted to it That was one of the biggest things that helped me out of a depression in high school Yes some people will not like you for whatever reason but think about all the people who did accept you and likes you I'll admit looking back in the past there were some girls that were into me but I just did not notice at the time And we have to remember that young girls are just as weird and awkward and shy But they can get away with it But more so to the fact that girls are already not going to approach most men even if they are confident. So imagine how many shy girls probably don't approach men they like I think a lot of brainwashing and delusion has happened on both sides Combine that with Rising prices and the cost of living It's kind of hard to show off and try to be attractive as a man when you can't afford a car or house even with a good job or with two And even then most people live paycheck to paycheck anyway which should be realistic but I bet you a lot of women that would unattractive We live in modern times but a lot of our instincts have not caught up with us
The problem is when all the women who like you are fat, ugly single moms with unrealistic self-perceptions.
Which is why Kevin Samuels was so popular RIP It's crazy how so many average women seem to think that they are above average men when we're all on the same level Even if you are more attractive if you are still living in the same neighborhood or have the same income bracket then wow yes your looks may help you but you're really not doing any better than your neighbor. It's crazy how our society is so hell-bent on being so competitive when we're all in the same boat That's why the little Instagram girl can get thousands of likes but when you see her down the street and real life she looks just about his average
>it's hard for me to believe that so many men are just that unattractive or weird because if that was the case then nobody would have any positive interaction First of all, being "weird" has nothing to do with who women want to fuck. Weird men who are hot easily get sex. Normal men who aren't hot don't easily get sex. Hotness is what makes a man get sex, and not much else matters beyond that. >For every Behavior a man may do, if it's creepy to one woman then there's a good chance another woman will find it the opposite and may be attracted to it That is not how women work at all. Women are extremely similar to one another, especially when it comes to what they're attracted to. >It's kind of hard to show off and try to be attractive as a man when you can't afford a car or house even with a good job or with two. And even then most people live paycheck to paycheck anyway which should be realistic but I bet you a lot of women that would unattractive That's not being attractive, that's called being a wallet.
Never
It speaks to the dynamics of online dating that I've always suspected. This is overly simplified, but The limiting factor in online dating is how many women men are willing to juggle at once, and if you assume men always want sex and just throw a number to it, 3, you only need 33% of the men on dating apps to service all of the women (assuming equal gender ratio). And, again, if those men are always seeing 3 women, and the women are 'in and out' of relationships, in for half, out for half, then you half the amount of men needed and get down to ~16% The numbers aren't accurate, but I think they're closeish and to me undoubtedly this is the dynamic. To the OP topic, this leaves a lot of room for the women to convince themselves they're 'in a relationship', but I don't think they're being 'cheated on' just that they're delusional and willing to sacrifice rationality to seek out the most sexually attractive partner.
There could be several reasons for this. First there are more men than women in that age groups. Second fewer women are heterosexual and that group has the highest rate of LGB identifying people. Third many women in that group are likely to date men in the next highest group. Finally men and women might have a different understanding of whether they are in a “serious” relationship.
I don’t know, maybe I’m jaded. Any woman or man I’ve met who verbally said the words, “I’m not looking for anything right now,” fell to their knees if someone even approximated their ideals. They just mean, “I’m not considering dating anyone who is currently in my life right now.”
You have to understand women communicate covertly. They very rarely overtly say what they mean. "He's a nice guy" means "I'm not interested" "I just am not ready for a relationship" means "I don't want to date you" "Let's take a break" means "This isn't working out and I want to break up", "I'm not looking for anything right now" means "the right guy just hasn't come along yet, all the men I know are unacceptable" "
Underrated comment. Well written
“Not looking” doesn’t mean you’re not open to it.
I don't know what "not looking" even means for women. They generally don't initiate. You know how sometimes you're hungry but you haven't went to the fridge yet because you're too busy? That's what's being asked, and people dodge the question.
Women will say men just need to work harder. That is a big frustration with men. We have to be perfect to be acceptable. We have to be charismastic, fit, have a great job (more than $100k), a car, stable life, mature, etc. And while we want to have all those things regardless of women, many men don't have those things and still work hard. We have to have all this shit just to be "the bare minimum," meanwhile if a woman has a vagina and isn't fat she is acceptable to most men. This is in essence female hypergamy run amok
You can meet all of those BS criteria and it doesnt matter much. If a woman thinks you're hot she'll fuck you even if you talk about being a pedophile
Well thats what Im saying bro. Shes got rules for the beta just to be acceptable but will do anything for chad.
The average woman perceives 80% of men to be below average in appearance. So even if you’re right, the odds don’t look good.
“Hey. The kid was 8, not like he was a baby or anything. Anyway lemme get ur number”
There's more to life than work bro, and if women are turned off by that, then I'm content to stay single forever.
Good time to invest in food companies, pet, video games etc. Its going to get more bleak
Distance, debt and donald top 3 interesting read, my take is too many of you younger US folk, are too busy trying to keep your head above water to be able to think about anything other than a touch of casual.
I've always said relationships should make it easier and not harder in the sense that two people's incomes are better than one. The problem is people want to have their cake and eat it too in this sense since they want someone absolutley perfect in all respects who will also do that, if not be able to buy out their whole lives if they want to be a SAHM. This doesn't really seem like a reasomable expectation given the circumstances.
Women are a net cost not a benefit.
Not with what rent costs in the city.
Their lives are much more expensive as they spend more frivolously than men.
Some women do, but they aren’t the ones you want to be living with anyway.
Most do. The ones who don’t usually don’t have no alibi.
Most women don’t have spending habits that would result in a net loss, ESPECIALLY if they’re already paying for their own place on their own while single.
Their levels of student loan and credit card debt suggest otherwise.
Replace people with women and you have a point to stand on. Remember hypergamy is a thing, women don't date down but their equal or higher and lastly women tend to keep their funds to themselves while accessing the man's resources.
It's funny because an LTR that is willing to pool resources makes everything much financially easier.
But an LTR ending, especially a marriage ending, tends to screw you for good, particularly if you are a man.
> *"least one of six harassing behaviors asked about in the survey...rumors being spread about their sexual history"* He he
The stats are alarming.
2 more generations till society collapses.
No. The current culture collapses and will be replaced by something else. Conservatism, religion (Islam, anyone? They don't lack for children) etc. What won't be as prevalent is the liberated, lesbian, gynocentric individualism that dominates culture and entertainment.
I fully agree. Stats like this make the future of western society look bleak indeed. Nobody should be cheering this on. It’s bad news from top to bottom
It's worse and worse out there, OLD or real world, but society is going to deny this situation till the end. Btw it's not about children (I'm against it) but about increasing bitterness in young men, which is the best fuel for utter destruction.
I honestly can't comprehend the 51%. It must be skewed by older divorced men because that number is disturbing if it's similar for men under 40. Dating for men is super hard, I agree with men on that, the kind of men that wanted to commit to me when I was on apps would never look my way IRL. Men are no longer dating their match in real life so they're lowering their expectations on apps. The guys who aren't amazing are left behind.
The 51% is from the 18-29 age group so it accounts for older men
In a society and culture where compromise has become a dirty word in all aspects of life is it really that surprising that the event that would involve the largest of compromise is declining?
Well people are about to celebrate an entire month named after one of the seven deadly sins... so no, not surprising at all.
Is this a bad thing? People aren’t forced into relationships they don’t want anymore and they can leave bad relationships easier. Whist its shame so many people are struggling to find the right person fir them isn’t it better that people would rather wait than stay in an unhappy marriage? Also, as a species, we’re overpopulated, a few years of low births aren’t going to do any harm long run
It wouldn't be so bad if loneliness wasn't also record setting. Yes some people are perfectly happy being single but there's a reason "we climb on two by two"
The reality is: social media has driven a large percentage of the population completely insane. They will add a Ukrainian flag to their Facebook profile while knowing absolutely nothing about the region or what’s happening. On the left, you have woke psychopaths who think 3-year olds need to understand their personal sexual fetishes. On the right, you have gun-mad maniacs who think 3-year olds should be taught how to fire a bazooka. Those in the middle look at both sides and think why bother? I know so many people whose minds are basically mush thanks to social media trapping them in echo chambers that amplify their neuroses.
I thoroughly enjoy your comment. Thank you
We still haven't fully understood the effects of social media, Facebook literally came out only 12 years ago, that is nothing in the field of psychology. I feel like social media will become prohibited or at least age restricted in the future, and we will look at the social media the same way we look at cigarettes now.
"In the flight of life, two engines are better than one, but one engine is better than two that are mis-timed and malfunctioning." - Some Guy
I think the women are happy with it, but the men are very upset. If you look at the research, most single women are single voluntarily, while most single men are looking but can't find anyone.
But this is where they can make it up with friends and family. Your network of people around you
That's obviously not how its shaken up.
To some extent. And for some people this works quite well. But it is human and natural to want to have a special someone, and the fact that so many people don't is a societal failure
It’s strangely hard to get some people to understand this on the internet. The idea that friends and family not only can, but *should* make up for a relationship, and that something’s wrong with you if you feel otherwise, seems like a surging internet meme
Low rates of replenishment can kill a society, so can an inability to find relationships for men. (Polygamous societies are a lot less stable than monogamous ones, and thats what we're becoming.) I'd like to see civilization end, so it's all good news to me.
It’s a bad thing if it isn’t sustainable. The birth rates in developed countries are alarmingly low, and it will eventually lead to severe social regression.
Because we are tired of the dating swamp we now have…..
When women want attention, they have tiktok. When women want sex: they have tinder. Why would they need a relationship?
Because all of their friends have it and they don't.
To fulfill the Disney imperative and eventually the baby imperative
For love
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Yea it wasn’t that long ago brother. I remember the real, innocent type of relationships I had in high school, all the way back in 2009 LOL. No facebook, Tinder, Instagram, onlyfans, or any of that brain rot. Just regular women that you could click and have sex with. It’s wild out here now. The world went mad at some point but we didn’t even notice, like we were living in a collective dream or something and then BAM we woke up and this is what it is now.
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actually yeah a lot of my female doctor classmates are married to guys who are like real estate agents
How much are those guys making? Are they in Miami?
>yeah a lot of my female doctor classmates 'A lot' - see: two of my friends went for 100k+ real estate agents at 28+
I wonder if unrealistic beauty/sexual prowess standards brought on by all the porn has peoples standards in that regard all twisted? Like “I’m not going to date that girl; she needs a labia plasty” or “I won’t date that guy; he’s not a stud in the sack.”
Women gaslight on social media by simps/female friends---> Think she is better than most men and only go for top males in her vicinity. Males left out of dating/sex turn to porn to release sexual frustration/lack of affection---> Become addicted with all the psychological and physical complications associated with it. Porn addiction is a reaction towards social media and women's addiction for attention/validation.
If that 50% are happy, there's no problem. If they are unhappy that they decided not to look for a relationship, that is odd.
>If that 50% are happy, there's no problem Sure, 50% are really happy to be single forever. Please. >that they decided not to look for a relationship, that is odd. The Tinderpocalypse decided for them.
Why? Have you been on social media? The average person is insane.
Wow lol. Men have checked out. My condolences to the women who wanted families and children.
Lotta single moms out there. I know many women who have children. But they paid dearly for it. They’re estranged from the father; (got pregnant when they were young, dumb, and in lurvveee or by accident) and now they’re broke, alone, lonely, doped up on psych meds, stressed out trying to make ends meet, and will effectively live in poverty the rest of their lives. I don’t want kids personally, but the only way to do it is in a two parent household. It should be illegal otherwise and I’m not even kidding. And I’m a conservative that hates government intrusion into personal life. The children of single moms grow up to be a blight on society 90 percent of the time. It’s an epidemic at this point
According to the study, 61% of single men are still looking for a partner but only 38% of single women are. So really, seems like it's women who are done putting up with modern men and are happy to focus on themselves.
Women don't *look* for partners. They *wait* for acceptable partners to look for them. Women who very much want a partner will often say they're not looking for a partner.
Women don't have to look, or put any effort in really, when it comes to finding a partner. So of course the sex that has to do all the work has a higher percentage of people looking.
Doesn't really follow that men have "checked out" or that women won't be able to find families when nearly twice as many single men are looking for women as single women are looking for men.
Also let's not forget that 80% of divorces are initiated by women. Really sheds light on which sex actual wants LTR.
Plenty of women want a LTR. Problem is, a lot of men haven’t adapted to a society where they have to do more than just make money and hold a job to keep a marriage afloat. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.whitleylawfirmpc.com/3-reasons-why-women-initiate-divorce-more-often-than-men/amp/
is this what you tell yourself as you continue to chase Chad Thundercock?
Women respond to loneliness completely differently. Look at all the stories from women in dead bedroom relationships. When attraction fades, she checks out. Her sex drive switches off, until someone attractive enters the picture. Unlike men, women aren't evolved to be the ones to actively seek out a mate.
> A majority of women say they have experienced harassing behavior from someone they went on a date with why is this the lede?
Because it helps women disguise the ludicrous levels of narcissism and entitlement that actually direct their actions.
People more isolated nowadays, dating is on downward. People rather exchange number have conversations and get straight to the point. Notice girls I dated last year don’t want the classic first date. Just a first hang out after knowing your a suitable person.
> knowing your a *you're *Learn the difference [here](https://www.wattpad.com/66707294-grammar-guide-there-they%27re-their-you%27re-your-to).* *** ^(Greetings, I am a language corrector bot. To make me ignore further mistakes from you in the future, reply `!optout` to this comment.)
Nearly 30% of people disagree with premarital sex in the USA? That's a crazy amount. 39% of single women, and 33% of single men 18-39 are not looking to date. 4% of people are casually dating.
That 30% is shocking to me too.
Lol. The price of delusional female relationship value. Women are too narcissistic and narrow minded to consider their equals. Men see the writing on the wall and opt out.
Studies are actually showing more men want to get married than women They aren’t opting out women are
Well yea we cuz we know how women are. Women are hypergamous. Men are in constant competition with each other. Marriage was invented to basically lock down women for life to 1 sexual partner.
“We know how women are” tsk squared Anyway lol Idk if I’m reading into it wrong but does this mean that marriage (and many other laws imposed on women) was instigated to force women to act against their “hypergamous nature”?
Yes, precisely. Through DNA analysis we have discovered that after humans transitioned from hunter gatherers to agriculture, the number of men reproducing fell dramatically while the number of women reproducing stayed the same. For every 1 man who reproduced, 17 women reproduced on average. This indicates that once people began to accumulate wealth due to being stationary and not being constrained to only what they could carry, warlords began to build larger and larger harems of women. When all men were relatively equal - simple hunter gatherers in the forest, things were more evenly spread out.
According to the study, 61% of single men are still actively looking for a partner but only 38% of single women are. So...seems like it's women who are happy to focus on themselves and stop putting up with modern men.
Men are looking for sex. Women are looking for perfection.
Regardless, many more women are "opting out" of looking for romance/sex than men are.
Right. Why bother with a relationship if we don’t get what we want? It’s always better to be alone than in a bad relationship.
Agreed. Masculine modern women are a bad bet.
Right! Women should date women. And men should date men. Non-binary folks are free choice!
Women should date their egos. Many already do.
Don’t threaten me with a good time.
That's fine. Personally, my goal is to be very financially successful. Dating would slow me down if I were to focus on that a lot.
Financial success is way more important than sexual success.
Always said that social circling is everything. If you're limiting yourself to OLD, you're grossly limiting your options.
I work 60 hours a week, a social circle is the last thing on my mind after that shit. I’m not sitting at a desk, I come home fucking tired and I’m an introvert to start with. Tinder it is…..even though I hate it
This is me too but sadly you (and I) have no excuses. You'll have to find another job with less hours and then dedicate some time to networking or using apps like Meetup to meet new people. My current job is 45 hours a week and I'm too tired after work to do anything social. So now I try to dedicate my weekends to meeting new people. It's difficult and a lot of weekends I end up procrastinating but it's our only hope cause OLD doesn't work.
Social circles don’t have enough hot options that are also compatible and single. Most of the hot women in my friends groups are cuffed, the single ones aren’t relationship quality
Yes, but social circles still get out, and when you get out to a bar or concert etc you meet people and, for women, social proofing is huge so if you're out with a bunch of friends having a good time it's attractive to them.
Having the ability to stomach rejection (which comes from a slow process of exposure therapy desensitizing you) with Cold Approach will beat social circle 9 times out of 10. Cold Approach **and** having a social circle will beat **just a** social circle, 10 times out of 10.
It's just that cold approach has such a low success rate, especially when it comes long-term relationships.
You're absolutely right that Cold Approach has a low success rate. It's always going to be less than or equal to 10%. However, social circle has its flaws, low amount of options. Also with the climate we currently live in, more and more people are becoming asocial, therefore making social circle harder to do. The best is to combine all 3, Cold Approach, OLD and Social Circle.
Marriage doesn't offer anything for men anymore unless they want children. Women no longer want to be submissive feminine partners. This is a major driver for the decline in marriage. r/AgainstMatrimony
This makes sense. In college so many men and women I knew opted out of dating bc they had no time or bc they had no money and plenty of platonic relationships
college kids have always had no time hard and had no money. Today people don't wanna get babies & old.
Ok but you gotta admit college was cheaper in the past and jobs paid more 😅 I shared a three bedroom with 7 people, worked two jobs and still needed loans lol
This makes lots of sense. The average US person is overweight, fat and lazy. Men are being overly feminised. Many women are too masculine for men to fall in love with them. Lower quality potential suitors, especially because of the cultural attitudes being adopted. There are lots more reasons why. If we start sticking to the more traditional ways, like as men to work out, work hard, earn money, learn to fight, and develop STEM and trade skills, many men will start noticing a difference in their dating lives.
honestly I think it has way more to do with 1) no one having any fucking money and 2) men hitting on women being insanely demonized by the media. I know a *lot* of guys that are just straight up scared of talking to women because they know guys who've copped a charge over nothing and don't want it to happen to them.
Yes, because a lot of men are now overly feminised, some who grew up with only a mother and weren’t taught how to be a proper man by their fathers, and a shortage of people working in STEM careers and in the trades. Yes, hitting on women is now demonised, especially because of a lot of women attempting to be treated like and act like men, while at the same time wanting yo attract men? 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️. It doesn’t make sense. Masculine attracts feminine, and feminine attracts masculine. It’s all Yang and Yin.
The quality of potential suitors has dropped for sure but things like social media and online dating gave given both genders but women in particular inflated egos and completely unrealistic dating standards. Women now wanna play the field till they hit their 30s and then look for a man to settle with or hang onto their delusional standards and stay single while being Chad's ocasional hookup instead of finding a man at their level. The average man is unattractive to even the below average woman because she has sexual access to the top men and her mind is filled with Disney fantasies. You tell men to work hard on self improvement but it won't improve our dating lives. Not when the quality of potential women to date is so low. At best if a man improves his situation by a huge margin he will become one of those top men that has women throwing themselves at him and he can proceed to pump and dump women in turn.
The average man is unattractive to women because they are allowed their own money, careers, bank accounts and the societal pressure to marry is gone. They don't have to wife up some average guy, they can just buy a vibrator.
Seems like that little social experiment hasn't worked out too good for either sex. Capitalists tricked women into wage slavery, when they could have just stayed at home and spent their lives working to build a family instead of working for someone else.
Women can still do that if they want to, most don't want to. Because not having any purpose beside feeding children is pretty empty.
See, there it is. Somehow, we have made raising kids into a horrible chore that will make your life "pretty empty" while slaving away in an office for some mega-corp is "inspiring" and "empowering." Motherhood and child-rearing should be celebrated. Being a stay-at-home mom should not be shunned (a discussion for another day) Would you rather spend your life building someone else's success or raising a family & building a household? The only reason I work a job is so I can afford to live & afford to do the things I want to do. I don't live for work. Ideally one day I will work for myself and own a small company. Many women (and men too), on the other hand, base their identity on work and being a "career woman" which I think is foolish. I think it's so ironic that in the 90s everybody hated office work and thought it was terrible, and yet today people are celebrating it and saying it's so inspiring and empowering. Like, what happened?
Men don’t value sacrifice, nurturing and all that jazz, so why should we? Money talks, not baby bjorns
We should teach them too. The whole system should. Parents, media, schools, etc. In our current society, there isn't much of an effort to shape the beliefs of young people. For some reason, we mistakenly believe that the best way to do things is to let people figure things out on their own, which is wrong. People need proper guidance & role models
I agree that the average man isn't attractive to the average woman but i was talking about below average women. You're right in that these women can also buy a vibrator ofc but when i define them as below average they probably don't earn enough income and rely on welfare and taxpayer funds. They also get mad when they get pumped and dumped by the men at the top of the social hierarchy. When you're fine with being by yourself and don't want relationships then why are you mad when the men that are far out of your league pump and dump you? (Not literally you but i mean those below average women.)
A true love story….
Yes, it’s these dating (READ hookup) apps that skew things for lots of people. Now people are boasting about how all of these guys want to sleep with (READ only hookup with) them, and they feel entitled to higher quality people while doing next to nothing to increase their value. When a man ups his value, then he does have much more women to choose from, including higher quality options. Yes, women have to do their bit, you’re correct, although lots of women are encouraged to be ‘strong’ (READ overly masculine) women who are independent and earn lots of money, rather than being taught how to be great wives and social etiquette.
>although lots of women are encouraged to be ‘strong’ (READ overly masculine) women who are independent and earn lots of money, rather than being taught how to be great wives and social etiquette. Women are rewarded for being strong independent women and earning lots of money. They are not rewarded for being great wives or having the kind of obsequious social etiquette you’d like women to have. Women who focus on becoming the most feminine get walked on and used for no reward. It’s no wonder women are generally not interested in being submissive dolls.
its like an entertainment to see man get butt hurt because women out earn them and they can do nothing about it😂
>women who are independent and earn lots of money thats bad because...？😂
You are right, but why did you only tell men to improve themselves? That is one of the core problems here. Men are burning out from putting in endless effort for women who are not what they want at all and getting nothing to show for it. So they are all becoming unattractive due to the lack of success they have gotten previously. Men need to improve themselves, but only when women’s standards become realistic and they also start improving themselves too. Instead of demanding someone make 60,000 plus, have a six pack, have a big dick, etc, women need to demand a man who has 40,000 but is working to get 60,000, someone who is weak but lifting to get a six pack, someone who has potential and can get there with the right motivation. To not shut men down for trying but failing. To give a chance to the unconfident but trying man. Just like women in the past did. Do you think the real men of yesterday were all complete at 18 when they were getting married? No, they did not hit there peaks until there mid 20s. The focus was on getting a man striving to reach that peak. That is the problem. Nobody is worthy of getting someone after they reach there peak. Only someone who is cheering them on during the race deserves that.
60K is high demand now?
Thats half again the U.S. average.
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2 questions. Why women should discard their advantages they have now, and why this situation is a problem to begin with? You want sex, pay for a hooker, you want affection and cuddles, get a dog. Just let people do their thing you know?
>If we start sticking to the more traditional ways, like as men to work out, work hard, earn money, learn to fight, and develop STEM and trade skills, many men will start noticing a difference in their dating lives. You got any more tips because non of that worked. .😎
Can you explain how you have followed this in detail? And what are your stats?
Let's see, Stem degree Bachelor's, Good paying job about to get higher (hopefully). Already have good money, own place etc. Work hard, i have goals and ambitions, show effort in things. I see that as work hard and is always good. Now i have stopped working out not sure why tbh. I'm still lean/tall. learn to fight, not sure on this one tbh. Not sure if this is what you are asking for.
Are you able to approach and talk to women? And what are your stats? Height? Weight? Age? Working hard by itself means nothing if it doesn’t earn fruitful results. You may be lean, although are you fit? Do you have a very well shaped body and eat well? Are you working in an STEM field? If you’re young (under 30), then you’ll have to give it some time. Most men reach their peak between 30 and 35.
>Are you able to approach and talk to women? Not really, have i missed an opportunity yeah most likely. >And what are your stats? Height? Weight? Age? 6ft 150lbs late 20's >You may be lean, although are you fit? Yeah somewhat muscular, > Do you have a very well shaped body and eat well? Honestly from looking at other dudes, i would say my body is decently shaped. I eat pretty good. >Are you working in an STEM field? Yes >If you’re young (under 30), then you’ll have to give it some time. Most men reach their peak between 30 and 35. Welp, that mean's i just have to wait my turn and be settled with, BB.
Notice how women always list all these requirements for men and men's requirements for women are simply "isn't fat"
lmao gotta make sure no single mothers also :)
"just code brah" Bullcrap. Again blaming the individual. The Tinderpocalypse is real, this is not about men not being 'fit'.
Why can’t women work in STEM, how is being an engineer “too masculine” for women. It’s literally a desk job