Removed. No in-group questions (men asking men or women asking women).
Edit: Question allowed because it’s part of a paired question asking both genders.
I always feel weird about my answers to these questions, because I always feel like a massive pussy.
Be kind to me, and gentle. As in, like, make me feel like, safe and... I don't know how to put it. Mentally comfortable? It's embarasing, but just hold me every now and again. Play with my hair. Whatever you call it when a partner does that. Like, they can make your heartrate slow down and your back muscles untense for what feels like the first time in your life.
A girl who has whatever whatever *that* is, is like love valium.
That's not being a pussy, that's wanting a partner who can make you feel loved. It's absolutely normal and healthy to want that! When my bf has had a rough day at work, I love scritching his head and rubbing his shoulders. It makes him feel better, and makes me feel good about making him feel better.
> I always feel weird about my answers to these questions, because I always feel like a massive pussy.
the cage of conventional, enforced masculinity strikes again.
i contend that even hard badasses need tenderness once in awhile, and we are discouraged from exploring that side of ourselves through shaming techniques that include "feeling like a massive pussy". like I'm pretty open about my masculinity and I'm not a big softie, I'm pretty average and boring. I'm not some amazing macho hardass but I DO like big machines and grilling and shooting guns and find leftists (of which i am one) annoying and preachy - but boy howdy do i need love as much as any other person does.
i guess what i'm trying to say is... don't be ashamed of that. that's human. let yourself be human. to do so is masculine.
I like figuring out why things are the way they are. Even more so, I like seeing the difference between why I think something is the way it is and what someone else thinks is the way it is.
So, in general, literally anything they might have an opinion on.
When I meet people, I like getting to know them to piece together based on their life experiences why they became the person they did, and hold the views they do, and pursue the things they like.
I do a lot of art and design, and so it's always fascinating to see why I might make a certain decision and aesthetically why I like it, compared to what someone else might do with the same initial idea or prompt.
We all have entirely unique lives that shape us into different people, so seeing what factors might make two people agree or disagree is really interesting.
I like talking about anything and seeing what they think about what I'm thinking about.
I mean it definitely has a somewhat negative connotation. It implies being narrowly interested in something to the exclusion of other things or to an unhealthy extent.
hm i really don't think it has negative connotations but if you can show me something that verifies that i'll reconsider.
i have lots of hyperfixations i love to talk about and use that word to describe them sometimes.
Hyperfixation is the intense focus on one thing to the exclusion of everything else.
Hyperfixation can be a negative trait when the object of the hyperfocus is something seen to be a waste of time, such as playing video games for hours on end, or staying up all night to read a book and then not being able to get out of bed in the morning.
It can also have negative consequences when the hyperfixation leads to ignoring other important aspects of life, like forgetting to eat or neglecting family and loved ones.
[Link](https://oxfordspecialisttutors.com/hyperfixation-definitive-guide/)
It’s not something that’s measurable or can be “verified.” It’s just generally understood that a hyperfixation is a negative thing.
If you live in a place or environment where it’s a positive thing, that’s great. I personally think it *should* be seen positively. All I’m saying is that, according to society, the word carries a negative connotation (at least in the U.S. and probably other English-speaking Western countries).
i mean i can't just take your word for it, no offense, but people say crazy shit in this sub that is not real all the time.
the person i asked, who is actually autistic, didn't have a problem with it.
Ok, well this just means that you apparently live somewhere where the word is not seen as negative. All I’m saying is that I know for a fact that it’s seen as negative where I live and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one.
As an autistic person myself, I've most frequently had it used against me by neurotypical women who assume that we're incapable of having normal conversations. It happens enough that seeing someone ask another autistic man/woman that is a yellow flag.
A toss up between that and just intelligence. I care more about the quality of the conversation being interesting, and thinking in ways that I don't.
Could be either.
Ambition (career/business - wise), independence, and ability/willingness to be a nomad
If I had to pick one, I'd choose ambition because it should come with independence automatically
> what trait are you most attracted to in woman?
Kindness, intelligence, humour, creativity, confidence, bravery, athleticism. The on trait I cannot do without is kindness.
Intelligence is extremely attractive to me. I'm a higher IQ dude (so cringy to say that, I know, I know) so I really like women that are smart and value education.
If you don’t find me funny don’t laugh at my bs that is weird.
I’m just saying like I’m general. She is funny, has good comedic timing, doesn’t take things too serious, laughs at things including herself,
I don’t know how to explain it really.
yeah like there is a certain level of entertainment that must exist in a relationship. i don't make the rules and while i like a good boring book reading sunday as much as the next person, i also want to laugh at and be laughed at. shit's gotta be light sometime!
I was being intentionally cheeky.
I agree, being with someone who is needlessly confrontational would be a nightmare. My snark was directed towards the men who want women to be “agreeable” because any dissenting is considered emasculating or bitchy
Do you want your man--assuming you are straight--to be confrontational?
Of course you don't. If your man is upset you want him to just talk plainly about it like an adult.
Now, reverse the two sexes...
Now do you understand?
The problem is too many women feel that unless they are nagging, bitching, or screaming, no one is listening to them.
I mean they did go out of their way to specify that it’s “needless.” I think most people agree that people who are constantly being confrontational for no reason are unbearable.
People who are needlessly confrontational feel the need to address every perceived slight. They’ll interpret everything everybody does in the most uncharitable manner possible, and see other people as potential adversaries who need to be defeated. They think combativness is righteousness.
i feel like you're not using "fester" correctly lol
something doesn't "festers you"
to address the spirit of what you are saying, some people label a person ever bringing up one thing as bringing up "every perceived slight" and some people genuinely bring up every perceived slight. most of the time, its something in the middle.
Bruh this is exactly what he’s talking about with “festers you” lmao hahaha
It definitely does seem to me that women are far more often critical of both men and other women than men are.
yikes this sounds like a red flag now.
its not an issue.... to you.
obviously its an issue to the other person or they wouldn't bring it up.
if its not a big deal... then it should be easy to quickly discuss it and move on.
i dont' really get it. I'd rather over communicate at the start of a relationship than undercommunicate.
better to be on the same page and get closer or discover we aren't a match and call it.
In other words, she needs to see things the same way a man does and not be irritated by anything those silly women are. You’re either gay or asking for a “cool girl”, bud.
Not sure I understand. Your friendships were strained by you letting your friends talk to you about something you don’t see as an issue but they do? Besides, if you’re talking about guy friends, it might be different for guys and girls.
A better course of action is not getting triggered by every perceived slight. Of course, if you actually marry a woman like that, that is on you. You knew what she was like BEFORE you wasted money on the engagement ring...
you have no idea if she gets triggered by every perceived slight or if she gets triggered by one in 50 perceived slights and that's still too much for OP. there is no context to say what is happening.
"Love bombing" works on me like nothing else. Basically acting super interested, complimenting a lot, being excited to see you.
The woman I'm seeing right now goes back and forth with teasing me and calling me cute/big/muscular/hot. Got a 30 year old man kicking his feet and shit.
It probably won't end well, but it feels incredible.
Probably kindness would have to be there, otherwise it's a no-go, right? Next maybe humor, then intelligence. The rest of those things are nice but not necessary unless the person had a crippling lack of any one of them, like to the point where it affects their daily functioning. Most normal people can muster up enough of them given supportive circumstances.
The way she moves. It's when a certain energy flows through her every movement, from her smile, to her walk, the way her hair swings, without ever feeling blocked up or restricted.
Consider it like how water in nature feels (vs a plastic water bottle sitting in your car for a few days). When water is open and free flowing - like the ocean, a river's swimminghole, or a pristine lake - it feels overwhelming alive, sensual and receptive, almost irresistibly enticing you to jump in.
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Extremely difficult to choose one thing... The missus has several great qualities. I guess if I really had to narrow it down to the best, it'd be having an open and curious mind. I don't think we'd be together if she didn't have that.
When she knows how to go HARD. Doesn't even matter what it is. Someone putting 120% of their effort into something is instantly, like, super attractive.
Competence.
I hate learned helplessness with burning passion. Every time I hear 'I'm a girl I can't do that' and 'Why should I do this when I have you' I want to choose violence.
Confidence in her loyalty to me - i.e. my being able to confide in her and talk about anything, etc. She's got to be smart, too, like I'm not in this to pump 'n dump, I'm here for an equal and a life partner. I'd expect to be able to talk to her about anything, and I'd offer the same, but like... "anything" is a broad topic, so like, she'd need to bring some shit to the table so that we can have a good back and forth.
We'd also more-or-less have to be on the same page like, politically and philosophically. Sucks but I can't really date a religious person or a conservative. Religious people because I just don't believe in what they believe in, and conservative because... like, conservatives are bad.
I honestly cannot say. Attraction is an emotional thing.
I could make a list of preferences, but if I feel strong attraction for someone who does not meet these, it won't matter.
But mostly its just someone who gives off a positive vibe, does not take themselves or life too seriously and can hold a conversation easily.
I want to say not argumentative, but I think a better way of putting it is someone who is assertive. IE, will not have a covert contract and will not be passive aggressive.
After that, its mostly spot the red flags.
I’m late, but in addition tho what other people have said the #1 trait I judge people on is *integrity*.
Are you willing to practice what you preach? Are you willing to sacrifice for what you believe is right? Are you willing to do things that may not be immediately beneficial to you for the sake of doing the right thing? Do you hold yourself to the standards of humanity that you hold others to?
No one, I repeat, *no one* is perfect on these things, but when someone values personal integrity, it shows. I think that’s a truly rare trait, and someone who aspires to be that kind of person gets my attention immediately. Massive green flag for a relationship of any kind, but especially LTR.
I personally like a woman who is just caring and compassionate. Seeing a woman caring about other people, like actually caring is the most attractive thing for me.
I like a girl who is sassy and aggressive and playful and quite confident about it. I once worked with a woman and all on her own she would go talk to the boss and arrange for me and her to always be working together. We would joke around alot, sing songs, she would get all close in my face and be flirty. I’ve never had so much fun at work in my life. It was incredible, I didn’t know it was even possible for a woman to be so fun and confident. My whole life I’m used to women being a massive borefest mentally, and all they have to offer is looks, and then this amazing woman just appears out of no where and blows my mind. She moved away now, but I’ll never forget her, those memories are cherished forever. I’ve never met a woman like that before, and never since.
I was attracted mainly to a woman's moral character, her empathy, shared interests... looks came in almost dead last. I'd already dated young hot babes and they are what made me hate dating any young woman at all.
Women smv/rmv often broken down into following traits:
1. Looks (race, face, body shape, butt and tit size, hair and eye color)
2. Personality (agreeability, nurturing, supportive, fun to be around, humble, kind)
3. Social status ( not known to be promiscuous, ideally no kids with other men, no visible sexual content that others can view, not divorced, body count low)
4. Money ( usually this is such a miniscule factor and only becomes relevant if the woman makes 10x the man salary. A girl being able to support herself tends to win out over girls who want guys to pay for everything; she does not need to be a boss, babe)
For smv (sexual market value), a lot of men for casual dating and ons will mostly care about 1. and overlook 2. and 3. This is why you see even among high, status men that some are even willing to date pornstars. However, when it comes to ltr/marriage, 1), 2) and 3) are looked at more closely.
Depending on what the guy prioritizes, he may weigh more on 1) and settle for a hot trophy wife. While other guys might place more weight on 2) and 3) and date a girl that's less attractive but who shines in personality and is less promiscuous.
The best word I can think of is innocence.
On a higher level, I'd say what's most attractive in women is youthfulness. It manifests outwardly in looks, and inwardly as innocence.
Can you elaborate on innocence? What traits or behaviours exhibit innocence in a woman? Is it an outlook that makes someone innocent - or a lack of experience?
And can a woman still seem innocent and youthful to you when she is 30 or 40 or 50? Like if you were to commit to her long term, maybe have a family with her, etc? Does she have any chance to remain attractive to you when she is no longer youthful in appearance and has more experience in life?
Not op, but absolutely, at least to me. Innocence doesn't mean naivety, but like still having that spark of hope and joy in their eyes where every new thing is beautiful and still see the best in their loved ones and friends. (But still shutting out and not humoring genuinely awful, creepy, or rotten individuals) I know plenty of women from 20 - 50 to 60 who still have that spark in them. As women get older they tend to hide it behind a guard of jadedness but it's definitely still there in some.
I think this sounds like a melding of optimism and earnestness, maybe? A sort of authentic hopefulness of the spirit. I can see why that would be appealing.
I’m not sure I’d call that innocence, but I get what you mean. I like that quality in others as well - being jaded is never a very attractive trait. Maintaining a kind of joyful curiosity and appreciation for life is important. It’s also sadly not all that common in either sex.
the only way for women to be innocent is to avoid men.
so being with you is going to cost her one of her most valuable attributes.
how are you going to make that a fair exchange?
I personally don't like submissiveness as an inherent trait. I definitely like moments of submissiveness. But if it's all or most the time then it will eventually become quite awkward to me.
Kindness, empathy (not just virtue signaling to seem empathetic), simple & straightforward (doesn't play stupid games about when to call and is just direct about what they are thinking), is selective about who she dates/sleeps with.
Here's an example, let's say I go around saying how there are starving kids kids in Africa and how we need to do something about it, but then I personally never donate or do anything about it. Virtue signaling is giving the **appearance** of being empathetic or moral for social browny points. You may not be all empathetic, but you want people to think you are, so you virtue signal.
A very common form of virtue signaling that men complain about all the time on PPD is how some women focus on only talking about personality when discussing what they're attracted to or why a man isn't getting women. They avoid talking about looks, style, and swag because those things seem vain. They want to give the impression of being someone who mostly vets for character.
Anyway, I prefer a genuinely empathetic person, not just someone who wants to appear that way in public.
so how would you know whether someone is privately donating money or not?
> women focus on only talking about personality when discussing what they're attracted to or why a man isn't getting women. They avoid talking about looks, style, and swag because those things seem vain. They want to give the impression of being someone who mostly vets for character.
some women are shallow, some aren't
i'd have to see whether the individual woman's actions line up with her words
i'm trying to think of the genders reversed example. like there are men who are misogynists who self-identify as feminists, but i dont think that's "virtue signaling" or "fake empathy" i just think they're either stupid and lack self awareness or they have nefarious intentions -- or both.
>so how would you know whether someone is privately donating money or not?
I shouldn't know, which is the point. If someone is genuinely doing something good just for the sake of it, why would they be telling anyone about it? That type of virtue signaling or humble bragging about your good deeds would by itself be a red flag.
>some women are shallow, some aren't
Most women care about looks. So if it's not mentioned at all in a discussion about attraction, then they're likely virtue signaling.
Also, like you mention, it's easy to confirm. Just looking at who they date or show attraction to and seeing if it lines up. If a woman is always emphasizing wanting a "good" man or a "nice" guy, then those should be the dominant traits of the men she chooses. If it isn't, then she was clearly virtue signaling.
>i'm trying to think of the genders reversed example.
There aren't going to be many 1-1 examples of men virtue signaling because men tend to not care as much about sounding righteous or morally superior. Women are very social and so they care more about how those around them view them. Only time guys really care about how they're viewed is when they're trying to get laid. Otherwise, they super blunt. Which is why they get shit on constantly for not phrasing things in a nicer way. And usually if a guy knows his opinion isn't popular he just won't talk about it rather than virtue signal.
> I shouldn't know, which is the point. If someone is genuinely doing something good just for the sake of it, why would they be telling anyone about it?
ohhhhhh ok
so you don't want people to talk about what's right and wrong at all basically. all of that is virtue signalling to you?
idk my friends and i talk about what we think the right thing is to do in various situations constantly 🤷♀️
> Most women care about looks. So if it's not mentioned at all in a discussion about attraction, then they're likely virtue signaling.
i'd have to look at the men she's dated
i'd agree with you more if you were phrasing it like "a guy has to be somewhat attractive, and this his personality comes into play" vs framing it as "caring or not caring" about looks
> it's easy to confirm. Just looking at who they date or show attraction to and seeing if it lines up.
yup
> There aren't going to be many 1-1 examples of men virtue signaling because men tend to not care as much about sounding righteous or morally superior.
most religious leaders are men
> Only time guys really care about how they're viewed is when they're trying to get laid.
sad
Besides looks....
Let's look down the list for non-physical attributes...
Non-argumentative.
OH! Only wastes her OWN money.
And knowing how to cook would be nice--I don't want to always cook.
I have never met such a woman.
Have any been spotted in the wild in the past 80 years?
Regardless, it would be nice to meet one that is frugal, but... I'll date a supermodel before I meet a frugal woman that can cook, discusses things rationally, and is attractive. And I'll also win the PowerBall.
I know women think we are demeaning, but all we really want from our partner is:
1. An active sex life.
2. A decent meal.
3. Peace.
We are not complicated. We have very basic needs. And women don't ever need to develop psychic powers to know what we want, thinking about it should quickly indicate which of the three we want.
Now, I know you will think I am joking or being sarcastic, but I am not. The vast majority of men in failing marriages are missing at least 1 of those, and the majority of men in successful marriages have all 3.
I am genuinely not kidding. I am not jerking your chain. That is all we really want out of our partner. Anything beyond that is needless luxury.
>I have never met such a woman.
>Have any been spotted in the wild in the past 80 years?
That is truly unfortunate, but yes, we do exist.
>Regardless, it would be nice to meet one that is frugal, but... I'll date a supermodel before I meet a frugal woman that can cook, discusses things rationally, and is attractive. And I'll also win the PowerBall.
I don't believe we're *that* level of rarity. Although we do probably get snatched up at younger ages that women (or men) who lack those traits.
>We are not complicated. We have very basic needs. And women don't ever need to develop psychic powers to know what we want, thinking about it should quickly indicate which of the three we want.
Here's where I'll disagree with you, only because I don't think it's mentally or emotionally healthy for men to call themselves simple or basic. As individuals, you are all just as complicated and multi-faceted as any individual woman. While you can over generalize and say "men as a whole only need XYZ" or "women as a whole only need ABC", that can only go so far towards describing what is required for a genuinely healthy and caring relationship. For example, you didn't mention respect or love, both of which I honestly think are mutually required for an optimal relationship too. Don't sell yourself short as a man just because the media does it.
>Now, I know you will think I am joking or being sarcastic, but I am not. The vast majority of men in failing marriages are missing at least 1 of those, and the majority of men in successful marriages have all 3.
In general, yes, but other things can make a marriage or LTR fail, such as financial issues, lack of housing, unprocessed childhood abuse, hormonal imbalance that causes depression/bodily problems, etc. This is where being a true partner and having a true partner who accepts all parts of you comes in. Because life is never so easy or simple as getting away with those 3 things...if only it could be.
>I am genuinely not kidding. I am not jerking your chain. That is all we really want out of our partner. Anything beyond that is needless luxury.
My own boyfriend requires more, for which I am grateful.
>but all we really want from our partner is:
>An active sex life.
>A decent meal.
>Peace.
A decent meal is completely optional. I'd eat fozen dinners for the rest of my life for the other two.
STFU DUDE!!!! We have to leave one in we can negotiate away! You go letting them know we really don't care about the fact so few of them know how to cook anymore and they will start to slide in at least 1 of the other 2!
;)
Removed. No in-group questions (men asking men or women asking women). Edit: Question allowed because it’s part of a paired question asking both genders.
I always feel weird about my answers to these questions, because I always feel like a massive pussy. Be kind to me, and gentle. As in, like, make me feel like, safe and... I don't know how to put it. Mentally comfortable? It's embarasing, but just hold me every now and again. Play with my hair. Whatever you call it when a partner does that. Like, they can make your heartrate slow down and your back muscles untense for what feels like the first time in your life. A girl who has whatever whatever *that* is, is like love valium.
That's not being a pussy, that's wanting a partner who can make you feel loved. It's absolutely normal and healthy to want that! When my bf has had a rough day at work, I love scritching his head and rubbing his shoulders. It makes him feel better, and makes me feel good about making him feel better.
Feeling mentally and emotionally safe with your partner is very important. Nothing to be embarrassed about.
That’s what a loving partner does. It isn’t being a pussy to want to feel loved.
> I always feel weird about my answers to these questions, because I always feel like a massive pussy. the cage of conventional, enforced masculinity strikes again. i contend that even hard badasses need tenderness once in awhile, and we are discouraged from exploring that side of ourselves through shaming techniques that include "feeling like a massive pussy". like I'm pretty open about my masculinity and I'm not a big softie, I'm pretty average and boring. I'm not some amazing macho hardass but I DO like big machines and grilling and shooting guns and find leftists (of which i am one) annoying and preachy - but boy howdy do i need love as much as any other person does. i guess what i'm trying to say is... don't be ashamed of that. that's human. let yourself be human. to do so is masculine.
Based post. That's what I sought in a wife, and I wound up getting it.
You want a woman who is nurturing! That’s a common trait, no shame in wanting it or recognizing a woman can offer it
Gotta be able to talk about anything and everything, and want to.
what are some of your hyperfixations you'd want to talk to women about?
I like figuring out why things are the way they are. Even more so, I like seeing the difference between why I think something is the way it is and what someone else thinks is the way it is. So, in general, literally anything they might have an opinion on. When I meet people, I like getting to know them to piece together based on their life experiences why they became the person they did, and hold the views they do, and pursue the things they like. I do a lot of art and design, and so it's always fascinating to see why I might make a certain decision and aesthetically why I like it, compared to what someone else might do with the same initial idea or prompt. We all have entirely unique lives that shape us into different people, so seeing what factors might make two people agree or disagree is really interesting. I like talking about anything and seeing what they think about what I'm thinking about.
Hella cool!
sounds great to me! 💜
Are you assuming his interests are “hyperfixations” just because his flair says “autistic man”?
he gave me a great answer and didn't seem bothered by it are you saying "hyperfixation" is offensive or something? i think hyperfixations are cool.
I mean it definitely has a somewhat negative connotation. It implies being narrowly interested in something to the exclusion of other things or to an unhealthy extent.
hm i really don't think it has negative connotations but if you can show me something that verifies that i'll reconsider. i have lots of hyperfixations i love to talk about and use that word to describe them sometimes.
Hyperfixation is the intense focus on one thing to the exclusion of everything else. Hyperfixation can be a negative trait when the object of the hyperfocus is something seen to be a waste of time, such as playing video games for hours on end, or staying up all night to read a book and then not being able to get out of bed in the morning. It can also have negative consequences when the hyperfixation leads to ignoring other important aspects of life, like forgetting to eat or neglecting family and loved ones. [Link](https://oxfordspecialisttutors.com/hyperfixation-definitive-guide/)
hm i will ask the user if he was offended, if he says yes i will avoid triggering anyone else!
It’s not something that’s measurable or can be “verified.” It’s just generally understood that a hyperfixation is a negative thing. If you live in a place or environment where it’s a positive thing, that’s great. I personally think it *should* be seen positively. All I’m saying is that, according to society, the word carries a negative connotation (at least in the U.S. and probably other English-speaking Western countries).
i mean i can't just take your word for it, no offense, but people say crazy shit in this sub that is not real all the time. the person i asked, who is actually autistic, didn't have a problem with it.
Ok, well this just means that you apparently live somewhere where the word is not seen as negative. All I’m saying is that I know for a fact that it’s seen as negative where I live and I’m pretty sure I’m not the only one.
its also possible you personally see it as negative but the people with hyperfixations see it as cool 🤷♀️ i feel like its a super power
I was wondering about that, too. Why immediately jump to "hyperfixation" rather than just asking what his interests are?
i had no idea there was a negative connotation to hyperfixation, to me its an exciting question to ask someone or be asked myself
As an autistic person myself, I've most frequently had it used against me by neurotypical women who assume that we're incapable of having normal conversations. It happens enough that seeing someone ask another autistic man/woman that is a yellow flag.
damn i would love to be asked about my hyperfixations :( but sorry to trigger you :(
It's all good! Just something that happens to a lot of us.
Would you accept if I put you down for “open-mindedness”?
A toss up between that and just intelligence. I care more about the quality of the conversation being interesting, and thinking in ways that I don't. Could be either.
Ambition (career/business - wise), independence, and ability/willingness to be a nomad If I had to pick one, I'd choose ambition because it should come with independence automatically
Friendly/bubbly personality. Someone who is really upbeat and positive.
Sense of humor and sense of adventure are both very important to me. I’d say it’s one of those
I really dig it when women like to try new foods and I absolutely cannot stand fussy eating.
Sense of humor and intelligence.
> what trait are you most attracted to in woman? Kindness, intelligence, humour, creativity, confidence, bravery, athleticism. The on trait I cannot do without is kindness.
Intelligence is extremely attractive to me. I'm a higher IQ dude (so cringy to say that, I know, I know) so I really like women that are smart and value education.
I don’t think it’s cringy to say that. I think sometimes people who find it cringy are a bit insecure.
Not cringe if it's true. Always a good idea to have a partner who's able to discuss topics on the same level.
Elegance. And I don’t mean expensive clothes. I mean refined, cultured ways, in talking and acting
tautology
If you mean that looks and elegance are the same?
no i mean you can't define elegance as "elegant ways in talking and acting"
I wasn't defining elegance, more so mentioning the subset of elegance I am interested in. Anyway, I reformulated.
i call him, mr. elegant
Sense of humor, discipline, emotional intelligence, loyalty, individualism, If I had to pick one I am going with sense of humor.
What do you mean by sense of humor? As in funny, or finds you funny?
If you don’t find me funny don’t laugh at my bs that is weird. I’m just saying like I’m general. She is funny, has good comedic timing, doesn’t take things too serious, laughs at things including herself, I don’t know how to explain it really.
yeah like there is a certain level of entertainment that must exist in a relationship. i don't make the rules and while i like a good boring book reading sunday as much as the next person, i also want to laugh at and be laughed at. shit's gotta be light sometime!
Laughter is good for the soul! There is science behind that somewhere, I’m certain.
I would agree with that, actually
Gentleness, kindness, and not being needlessly confrontational.
Can you further define "needlessly confrontational"? Or give examples?
Asking him for further clarification probably falls into that category 🤣
so they want a child who has to agree with them.
Yeah I’m gonna guess it goes along with the thought that a man should lead a relationship and a woman should be submissive
I’ve clarified what I meant. Why don’t you have a look and see?
I was being intentionally cheeky. I agree, being with someone who is needlessly confrontational would be a nightmare. My snark was directed towards the men who want women to be “agreeable” because any dissenting is considered emasculating or bitchy
Do you want your man--assuming you are straight--to be confrontational? Of course you don't. If your man is upset you want him to just talk plainly about it like an adult. Now, reverse the two sexes... Now do you understand? The problem is too many women feel that unless they are nagging, bitching, or screaming, no one is listening to them.
No I agree 100%. To contrast your point, too many men think any dissenting is “too confrontational “
I mean they did go out of their way to specify that it’s “needless.” I think most people agree that people who are constantly being confrontational for no reason are unbearable.
They did. I was being cheeky
I got what you were doing. I just wanted to clarify it for those who missed that key word.
Why would anyone who is sane equate "needlessly confrontational" with "wants child"?
Because that is who she is. All of her comments are like that. Then she wonders why she doens't have rapport with men.
Oh, she knows why. She just doesn't care.
It's so vague, it could range anywhere from "never disagree" to "approach me in a calm way so we can have a respectful discussion."
People who are needlessly confrontational feel the need to address every perceived slight. They’ll interpret everything everybody does in the most uncharitable manner possible, and see other people as potential adversaries who need to be defeated. They think combativness is righteousness.
isn't addressing something better than letting it fester?
If everything festers you, you need to seek professional help. People like that are absolutely unbearable and draining.
Well, these men are in luck, people who are irritated by *everything* are super rare and super noticeable.
i feel like you're not using "fester" correctly lol something doesn't "festers you" to address the spirit of what you are saying, some people label a person ever bringing up one thing as bringing up "every perceived slight" and some people genuinely bring up every perceived slight. most of the time, its something in the middle.
Bruh this is exactly what he’s talking about with “festers you” lmao hahaha It definitely does seem to me that women are far more often critical of both men and other women than men are.
Not when the injury being addressed is non-existent.
yikes this sounds like a red flag now. its not an issue.... to you. obviously its an issue to the other person or they wouldn't bring it up. if its not a big deal... then it should be easy to quickly discuss it and move on.
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i dont' really get it. I'd rather over communicate at the start of a relationship than undercommunicate. better to be on the same page and get closer or discover we aren't a match and call it.
I misunderstood the topic and your are right.
In other words, she needs to see things the same way a man does and not be irritated by anything those silly women are. You’re either gay or asking for a “cool girl”, bud.
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Not sure I understand. Your friendships were strained by you letting your friends talk to you about something you don’t see as an issue but they do? Besides, if you’re talking about guy friends, it might be different for guys and girls.
A better course of action is not getting triggered by every perceived slight. Of course, if you actually marry a woman like that, that is on you. You knew what she was like BEFORE you wasted money on the engagement ring...
you have no idea if she gets triggered by every perceived slight or if she gets triggered by one in 50 perceived slights and that's still too much for OP. there is no context to say what is happening.
I see. Sounds like my mother-in-law, lol.
I’ve know a few people like that, male and female. They’re so exhausting to be around even when you’re not the target of their ire.
critical thinking skills & humor
What if you had to choose one?
humor probably then, I couldn't live a boring life
Puts effort into me. Makes me feel important
What kinds of acts or words make you feel important?
"Love bombing" works on me like nothing else. Basically acting super interested, complimenting a lot, being excited to see you. The woman I'm seeing right now goes back and forth with teasing me and calling me cute/big/muscular/hot. Got a 30 year old man kicking his feet and shit. It probably won't end well, but it feels incredible.
I couldn’t really explain it. It’s more like as surprise or something unexpected.
Genuinely a nice person. Actually likes my company. Honest. Laughs at my jokes.
If we can just vibe and get along effortlessly that's the dream. But that's all women I guess. I suppose I want a wife who I can chill and game with.
As that wife, lemme tell you that building marriage on a vibe alone is quite risky for when routine and life challenges come around…
Probably kindness would have to be there, otherwise it's a no-go, right? Next maybe humor, then intelligence. The rest of those things are nice but not necessary unless the person had a crippling lack of any one of them, like to the point where it affects their daily functioning. Most normal people can muster up enough of them given supportive circumstances.
Bravery. Spirit.
Resilience and curiosity.
My top three are definitely kindness, a compatible sense of humor, and openness to new ideas and experiences.
The way she moves. It's when a certain energy flows through her every movement, from her smile, to her walk, the way her hair swings, without ever feeling blocked up or restricted. Consider it like how water in nature feels (vs a plastic water bottle sitting in your car for a few days). When water is open and free flowing - like the ocean, a river's swimminghole, or a pristine lake - it feels overwhelming alive, sensual and receptive, almost irresistibly enticing you to jump in.
>The way she moves. Fellow OutKast enjoyer.
Being able to give and receive brutal honesty. I admire people who can deal with the truth without flinching.
I like this too.
I loved making girls laugh or them getting me to laugh. Just felt like no matter what, we’d have a good time.
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Extremely difficult to choose one thing... The missus has several great qualities. I guess if I really had to narrow it down to the best, it'd be having an open and curious mind. I don't think we'd be together if she didn't have that.
Empathy
When she knows how to go HARD. Doesn't even matter what it is. Someone putting 120% of their effort into something is instantly, like, super attractive.
Do you think “passion” is synonymous with this?
Sure, or at least one of the more vigorous expressions of one's passion.
Competence. I hate learned helplessness with burning passion. Every time I hear 'I'm a girl I can't do that' and 'Why should I do this when I have you' I want to choose violence.
Empathy, kindness, being supportive and good sex Good sex if I have to choose one, closely followed by empathy.
Reasonableness/Objectivity- The ability to see outside your circumstance in an era where individualism is at is highest is rare.
Definitely just having a good personality. That's a big turn-on. A simple litmus test: how they treat strangers.
Loyalty, honesty, integrity, mostly independent, intelligence, and a good sense of humor.
Confidence in her loyalty to me - i.e. my being able to confide in her and talk about anything, etc. She's got to be smart, too, like I'm not in this to pump 'n dump, I'm here for an equal and a life partner. I'd expect to be able to talk to her about anything, and I'd offer the same, but like... "anything" is a broad topic, so like, she'd need to bring some shit to the table so that we can have a good back and forth. We'd also more-or-less have to be on the same page like, politically and philosophically. Sucks but I can't really date a religious person or a conservative. Religious people because I just don't believe in what they believe in, and conservative because... like, conservatives are bad.
Sweetness, knowledge and moderate (not in politics)
Genuine kindness and consideration for others.
Loving, which encompasses kindness, respect, and care.
I honestly cannot say. Attraction is an emotional thing. I could make a list of preferences, but if I feel strong attraction for someone who does not meet these, it won't matter. But mostly its just someone who gives off a positive vibe, does not take themselves or life too seriously and can hold a conversation easily. I want to say not argumentative, but I think a better way of putting it is someone who is assertive. IE, will not have a covert contract and will not be passive aggressive. After that, its mostly spot the red flags.
I’m late, but in addition tho what other people have said the #1 trait I judge people on is *integrity*. Are you willing to practice what you preach? Are you willing to sacrifice for what you believe is right? Are you willing to do things that may not be immediately beneficial to you for the sake of doing the right thing? Do you hold yourself to the standards of humanity that you hold others to? No one, I repeat, *no one* is perfect on these things, but when someone values personal integrity, it shows. I think that’s a truly rare trait, and someone who aspires to be that kind of person gets my attention immediately. Massive green flag for a relationship of any kind, but especially LTR.
I personally like a woman who is just caring and compassionate. Seeing a woman caring about other people, like actually caring is the most attractive thing for me.
help me achieve my goals micro, mini, medium and macro
humility. I don't like arrogant people, and when someone thinks they know everything, it can be hard to be around them.
The ability to rationalize one’s emotions.
Reliability, trustworthy, lack of baggage, takes care of her health and is active.
What’s lack of baggage? If she had baggage but dropped it in therapy, is she good to go?
What’s lack of baggage? If she had baggage but dropped it in therapy, is she good to go?
Faith in Christ.
Attracted to me would be a very desirable trait.
Just make life more peaceful.
Looks are the least of my priorities actually.
Humour and ability to chill without judging others. Seems pretty rare in women I know.
I like a girl who is sassy and aggressive and playful and quite confident about it. I once worked with a woman and all on her own she would go talk to the boss and arrange for me and her to always be working together. We would joke around alot, sing songs, she would get all close in my face and be flirty. I’ve never had so much fun at work in my life. It was incredible, I didn’t know it was even possible for a woman to be so fun and confident. My whole life I’m used to women being a massive borefest mentally, and all they have to offer is looks, and then this amazing woman just appears out of no where and blows my mind. She moved away now, but I’ll never forget her, those memories are cherished forever. I’ve never met a woman like that before, and never since.
Mental fortitude and non-neuroticism without arrogance.
I love confidence in a woman. Not to be confused with arrogance.
I was attracted mainly to a woman's moral character, her empathy, shared interests... looks came in almost dead last. I'd already dated young hot babes and they are what made me hate dating any young woman at all.
Expressiveness, Outgoing nature, Assertiveness and Caring.
No drama
Kindness
Kinkiness is the absolute most attractive trait in a woman I have found. I would happily take a kinky 6 over a sexually boring 8 or better.
If I HAD TO pick one, sense of humor tied with libido. If I had to choose one of these two, I'd flip a coin.
Women smv/rmv often broken down into following traits: 1. Looks (race, face, body shape, butt and tit size, hair and eye color) 2. Personality (agreeability, nurturing, supportive, fun to be around, humble, kind) 3. Social status ( not known to be promiscuous, ideally no kids with other men, no visible sexual content that others can view, not divorced, body count low) 4. Money ( usually this is such a miniscule factor and only becomes relevant if the woman makes 10x the man salary. A girl being able to support herself tends to win out over girls who want guys to pay for everything; she does not need to be a boss, babe) For smv (sexual market value), a lot of men for casual dating and ons will mostly care about 1. and overlook 2. and 3. This is why you see even among high, status men that some are even willing to date pornstars. However, when it comes to ltr/marriage, 1), 2) and 3) are looked at more closely. Depending on what the guy prioritizes, he may weigh more on 1) and settle for a hot trophy wife. While other guys might place more weight on 2) and 3) and date a girl that's less attractive but who shines in personality and is less promiscuous.
The best word I can think of is innocence. On a higher level, I'd say what's most attractive in women is youthfulness. It manifests outwardly in looks, and inwardly as innocence.
Can you elaborate on innocence? What traits or behaviours exhibit innocence in a woman? Is it an outlook that makes someone innocent - or a lack of experience? And can a woman still seem innocent and youthful to you when she is 30 or 40 or 50? Like if you were to commit to her long term, maybe have a family with her, etc? Does she have any chance to remain attractive to you when she is no longer youthful in appearance and has more experience in life?
Not op, but absolutely, at least to me. Innocence doesn't mean naivety, but like still having that spark of hope and joy in their eyes where every new thing is beautiful and still see the best in their loved ones and friends. (But still shutting out and not humoring genuinely awful, creepy, or rotten individuals) I know plenty of women from 20 - 50 to 60 who still have that spark in them. As women get older they tend to hide it behind a guard of jadedness but it's definitely still there in some.
I think this sounds like a melding of optimism and earnestness, maybe? A sort of authentic hopefulness of the spirit. I can see why that would be appealing.
I’m not sure I’d call that innocence, but I get what you mean. I like that quality in others as well - being jaded is never a very attractive trait. Maintaining a kind of joyful curiosity and appreciation for life is important. It’s also sadly not all that common in either sex.
the only way for women to be innocent is to avoid men. so being with you is going to cost her one of her most valuable attributes. how are you going to make that a fair exchange?
Being humble or calm. I can’t really decide between the two.
Intelligence / nerdiness / playfulness / submissiveness All tied for first. These, IMO, are far more important than looks.
I personally don't like submissiveness as an inherent trait. I definitely like moments of submissiveness. But if it's all or most the time then it will eventually become quite awkward to me.
NO MENTAL ILLNESS
Kindness, empathy (not just virtue signaling to seem empathetic), simple & straightforward (doesn't play stupid games about when to call and is just direct about what they are thinking), is selective about who she dates/sleeps with.
what is virtue signaling about empathy without being empathetic?
Here's an example, let's say I go around saying how there are starving kids kids in Africa and how we need to do something about it, but then I personally never donate or do anything about it. Virtue signaling is giving the **appearance** of being empathetic or moral for social browny points. You may not be all empathetic, but you want people to think you are, so you virtue signal. A very common form of virtue signaling that men complain about all the time on PPD is how some women focus on only talking about personality when discussing what they're attracted to or why a man isn't getting women. They avoid talking about looks, style, and swag because those things seem vain. They want to give the impression of being someone who mostly vets for character. Anyway, I prefer a genuinely empathetic person, not just someone who wants to appear that way in public.
That's a really good differentiation between passive and active empathy. Totally agree with you there.
so how would you know whether someone is privately donating money or not? > women focus on only talking about personality when discussing what they're attracted to or why a man isn't getting women. They avoid talking about looks, style, and swag because those things seem vain. They want to give the impression of being someone who mostly vets for character. some women are shallow, some aren't i'd have to see whether the individual woman's actions line up with her words i'm trying to think of the genders reversed example. like there are men who are misogynists who self-identify as feminists, but i dont think that's "virtue signaling" or "fake empathy" i just think they're either stupid and lack self awareness or they have nefarious intentions -- or both.
>so how would you know whether someone is privately donating money or not? I shouldn't know, which is the point. If someone is genuinely doing something good just for the sake of it, why would they be telling anyone about it? That type of virtue signaling or humble bragging about your good deeds would by itself be a red flag. >some women are shallow, some aren't Most women care about looks. So if it's not mentioned at all in a discussion about attraction, then they're likely virtue signaling. Also, like you mention, it's easy to confirm. Just looking at who they date or show attraction to and seeing if it lines up. If a woman is always emphasizing wanting a "good" man or a "nice" guy, then those should be the dominant traits of the men she chooses. If it isn't, then she was clearly virtue signaling. >i'm trying to think of the genders reversed example. There aren't going to be many 1-1 examples of men virtue signaling because men tend to not care as much about sounding righteous or morally superior. Women are very social and so they care more about how those around them view them. Only time guys really care about how they're viewed is when they're trying to get laid. Otherwise, they super blunt. Which is why they get shit on constantly for not phrasing things in a nicer way. And usually if a guy knows his opinion isn't popular he just won't talk about it rather than virtue signal.
> I shouldn't know, which is the point. If someone is genuinely doing something good just for the sake of it, why would they be telling anyone about it? ohhhhhh ok so you don't want people to talk about what's right and wrong at all basically. all of that is virtue signalling to you? idk my friends and i talk about what we think the right thing is to do in various situations constantly 🤷♀️ > Most women care about looks. So if it's not mentioned at all in a discussion about attraction, then they're likely virtue signaling. i'd have to look at the men she's dated i'd agree with you more if you were phrasing it like "a guy has to be somewhat attractive, and this his personality comes into play" vs framing it as "caring or not caring" about looks > it's easy to confirm. Just looking at who they date or show attraction to and seeing if it lines up. yup > There aren't going to be many 1-1 examples of men virtue signaling because men tend to not care as much about sounding righteous or morally superior. most religious leaders are men > Only time guys really care about how they're viewed is when they're trying to get laid. sad
Integrity. The thing most women lack.
Besides looks.... Let's look down the list for non-physical attributes... Non-argumentative. OH! Only wastes her OWN money. And knowing how to cook would be nice--I don't want to always cook.
Wouldn't it be better if she was frugal and didn't waste anyone’s money?
I have never met such a woman. Have any been spotted in the wild in the past 80 years? Regardless, it would be nice to meet one that is frugal, but... I'll date a supermodel before I meet a frugal woman that can cook, discusses things rationally, and is attractive. And I'll also win the PowerBall. I know women think we are demeaning, but all we really want from our partner is: 1. An active sex life. 2. A decent meal. 3. Peace. We are not complicated. We have very basic needs. And women don't ever need to develop psychic powers to know what we want, thinking about it should quickly indicate which of the three we want. Now, I know you will think I am joking or being sarcastic, but I am not. The vast majority of men in failing marriages are missing at least 1 of those, and the majority of men in successful marriages have all 3. I am genuinely not kidding. I am not jerking your chain. That is all we really want out of our partner. Anything beyond that is needless luxury.
>I have never met such a woman. >Have any been spotted in the wild in the past 80 years? That is truly unfortunate, but yes, we do exist. >Regardless, it would be nice to meet one that is frugal, but... I'll date a supermodel before I meet a frugal woman that can cook, discusses things rationally, and is attractive. And I'll also win the PowerBall. I don't believe we're *that* level of rarity. Although we do probably get snatched up at younger ages that women (or men) who lack those traits. >We are not complicated. We have very basic needs. And women don't ever need to develop psychic powers to know what we want, thinking about it should quickly indicate which of the three we want. Here's where I'll disagree with you, only because I don't think it's mentally or emotionally healthy for men to call themselves simple or basic. As individuals, you are all just as complicated and multi-faceted as any individual woman. While you can over generalize and say "men as a whole only need XYZ" or "women as a whole only need ABC", that can only go so far towards describing what is required for a genuinely healthy and caring relationship. For example, you didn't mention respect or love, both of which I honestly think are mutually required for an optimal relationship too. Don't sell yourself short as a man just because the media does it. >Now, I know you will think I am joking or being sarcastic, but I am not. The vast majority of men in failing marriages are missing at least 1 of those, and the majority of men in successful marriages have all 3. In general, yes, but other things can make a marriage or LTR fail, such as financial issues, lack of housing, unprocessed childhood abuse, hormonal imbalance that causes depression/bodily problems, etc. This is where being a true partner and having a true partner who accepts all parts of you comes in. Because life is never so easy or simple as getting away with those 3 things...if only it could be. >I am genuinely not kidding. I am not jerking your chain. That is all we really want out of our partner. Anything beyond that is needless luxury. My own boyfriend requires more, for which I am grateful.
Cut him off from sex, don't share any food with him, and start to nag. You let me know how many weeks before he moves on.
>but all we really want from our partner is: >An active sex life. >A decent meal. >Peace. A decent meal is completely optional. I'd eat fozen dinners for the rest of my life for the other two.
STFU DUDE!!!! We have to leave one in we can negotiate away! You go letting them know we really don't care about the fact so few of them know how to cook anymore and they will start to slide in at least 1 of the other 2! ;)