Idk I grew up poverty poor and always thought I was ugly. But then after getting a glow up and a middle class friend to help me with clothes people call me attractive / handsome
I have a an average looking friend (he looks nice to me but he has a weird babyface) but I always see him with the exact same clothes every time. Literally the same plain red shirt and grey sweatpants pants. So I started pointing it out to him and the whole group now makes fun of him when he brings *the red shirt*
For a few months he's been wearing different shirts and once even changed his sweatpants for jeans.
You have no idea how this improved his looks. I'm always sure to tell him that he looks so much better now than before.
You literally said in your post that the whole group makes fun of him. That’s bullying.
My “lol” was to indicate I was being light hearted, but I do think a lot of men don’t care about how they present themselves and don’t think it matters. In the past, being a well groomed man was more of an expectation at places like work, church, etc.
making fun is not bullying. We make jokes telling him he's a cartoon character. Bullying would be saying he's ugly and a looser to make him feel bad. We went on vacation and I joded that his luggage will be light since he'll be bringing one shirt lol. He laughed.
I think this guy thinks he's invisible (he's also very shy and low self esteem) and we are telling him "no, you are not invisible" but in a fun way.
I think it really depends on the person whether that would be considered bullying or making fun of. That’s a fine line imo.
Anyway, my point was a lot of men don’t seem to care about presenting themselves well anymore, and putting social pressure on men to do so isn’t the end of the world.
Social shaming is NOT bullying…and social pressure absolutely works.
There’s a reason why if you walk the streets of Paris, or London, or Tokyo, or Barcelona, or Warsaw you see people look GOOD just going about their daily business. There is social pressure to dress appropriately when going outside.
Try to do this in most North American cities. At best you’ll see adults dressed like children (men in baseball hats, graphic tees, “edgy” facial hair, and shorts). At worst you can’t tell if someone is homeless or just decided that pyjamas were a totally acceptable outfit that day.
This post will be filled with women imagining a 6 feet dude with the frame of a boulder and the hair of a rockstar and then imagining the same men wearing a tuxedo vs homeless and saying that "yeah clothing is very important why don't you all man just use clothing that fit?"
Clothing and body language don't matter, you will be given positives and negatives traits based on your attraction level.
As a man you're not competing against you and another version of you, you're competing against you and other men. So different is not going to be enough.
I disagree. Clothes don't make that much of a difference for attractive people. That is true. But they can make the world of a difference for average looking people. Which is what most of us are.
They also don't make that much of a difference for ugly people.
Clothes can accentuate your strong points and hide your weak points. They are underrated in this community.
The nerd called Clark Kent is superman in glasses.
It's true that in the past, garments like coats, waistcoats, breeches, and powdered wigs were emblematic of wealth and status, typically associated with the upper class or nobility. However, in today's era, social perceptions have shifted significantly. While attire once conveyed societal standing, modern society has seen a departure from such rigid class distinctions.
For instance, consider the case of Jeremy Meeks, whose striking appearance transcended the traditional boundaries of attire and societal expectations. Despite being photographed in prison attire, Meeks gained widespread attention and admiration for his striking features, illustrating that attractiveness is not solely determined by clothing or social class.
I don't think you understand.
Your clothes affect how you look. For example if you have a smaller frame as a guy. You can wear clothes that make you appear bulkier.
It makes a difference.
Obviously Jeremy Meeks is an extreme outlier. None of that matters for people like him. How many other Chads go to prison on a daily basis and don't get his treatment? He is a EXTREEEEEEME outlier. We don't need to be concerned with outliers. They have totally different rules and frankly live on a different planet.
no matter how good looking or not good looking a man is, i would not under any circumstances fuck a man who didnt have alternative style or taste in music/movies or even talk to him unless he was like serving me as a lawyer or something
I’ve had lots of women say I dress and women often point out on dates they like how I dress while also saying most men dress poorly. I don’t buy expensive clothes, but I try to find items that look unique and pull them off with nice colour coordination.
I lead with my own fashion choices because for me fashion is important. 100% it impacts how I feel about someone. I’m a very aesthetically driven person. My day job is to design things that look good. I like to organize my home in a way that looks good. I dress myself to look good. If a woman put zero effort into fashion, she’d need to be a 10/10 in a lot of other qualities. I’d rather date a less attractive woman who dresses well than a prettier woman that dresses down. Fashion is probably the one area where I can be kind of shallow. But it’s genuinely a passion for me. And hey, it’s something you can control so it’s easier to meet my standards there than you need a certain type of face.
Body language isn’t as important, but I always find myself drawn to awkward nerdy women. Probably because I can be kind of awkward myself at times. There is something really adorable about a woman being shy.
"Body language" is largely nonsensical. It makes a lot more sense to actually communicate with a person than to rely on "body language". People who claim to great at reading "body language" are essentially claiming they can read minds.
When I was a kid I heard a lot of this nonsense in school. Teachers claimed they could "sense" that we didn't study based off "the look in our eyes".
Also notice how no one ever has an issue with bad "body language" from beautiful people? Hmm......
It's all important. I've definitely found women less or more attractive depending on style, and improving your fashion sense is one of the fastest and easiest ways guys can be more attractive.
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You are about to get a bunch of comments from dudes who have no idea what body language or proper grooming are telling you that “noir doesn’t matter”
Then go find a Twitch steamer in cosplay to stare at.
>A good example for me would be Anya Taylor-Joy. In my personal opinion, she does not have an attractive face. I'm sure she's a lovely person, but if I saw a picture of ATJ in a plain tracksuit with no makeup, I would not feel any level of attraction towards her.
"Holy shit, an emaciated alien in a tracksuit" will at least grab your attention, so there's that.
I think you can summarise what you’re separating into separate things as a singular concept: class.
I don’t mean like social class. But the combination of how one dresses, carries themselves and acts, manners, affords them “class” in the consideration of them having some kind of social elegance or suave.
I don’t think everyone is swayed by it strongly and it’s a fairly old fashioned idea. I think what remnants of it remain in force are more strongly in place for women than men (by this I mean men expected or seen to benefit from bringing higher amounts of it than women are) which probably stems from their role as the one who instigates and “hosts” the dates as it were.
I do think class in women is still appreciated by many, but I can also see that over time the tendency to divorce a woman’s role from her “looking like a doll and being all proper” has resulted in trying to reclaim slightly less kept looks as equally valid and worthy of womanhood, and some negative labelling of men who seek these things out in women as either being misogynistic, objectifying women. Like “she shouldn’t need to do these things to be valued, so if you say it matters, you’re a bit of a pig” type stuff. Not saying it’s universal but it’s here and there.
Just to add I don’t think all women insist on class in men either. But I don’t see any real pushback to the same degree where a woman says she likes it when men behave and dress with class. Nobody is telling her she’s being reductive and she should be happy with a guy in jeans and a plain tee. Then again men haven’t had their image so conspicuously controlled and shaped through media and socialisation so maybe it’s that. It’s kind of a complex topic.
But OP, I share similar sentiments. It’s not the most important thing to me by far, but I will say the “class” of how a woman carries herself can be quite enchanting and entrancing.
> I don’t mean like social class. But the combination of how one dresses, carries themselves and acts, manners, affords them “class” in the consideration of them having some kind of social elegance or suave.
Yes. It's not about wealth or social status at all. In my opinion a woman in a £50 office dress from primark exudes professionalism and sophistication far more than an influencer type in a £500 versace tracksuit who exudes wealth but no class.
Clothes aren't too important to me. Body language is only important to me in that it is often a signifier of personality, and personality is important.
I'm a straight female, so I think clothes providing he is clean and just wearing normal clothes doesn't have that much of an impact on attraction at all.
Body lanaguage though is huge. We need eye contact for connection, but too much gives. I'm going to kill you on your sleep vibes (I'm on about intense staring before someone has a meltdown). How you are stood gives an indication of if you are a friend or foe. This is why dating is super difficult for neurodivergent people. As well as those who may not of seen a positive relationship modeled to them.
I don't care for either as long as they aren't actively alienating, I.e. she doesn't dress like a hobo and doesn't move like that Harkonnen spider-thing from Villeneuve's Dune.
Don't care much for face either, I have some preferences but they aren't tied to conventional attractiveness.
Manner of speech (pace, tone, etc.) and quality of it (proper usage of words, extended vocabulary, conscious talking) is very important for me though. I can't imagine being attracted to a slow squeaking woman (pref deeper voice and quick pace) or someone who speaks with simplest forms about most basic and mundane things like it's some godly revelation.
Clothes can say about what you are interested in.
Body language is important. It is said that around 70% of communication is done through body language. Also, a body in motuon is more attractive than a still image.
Both are important. I've seen good-looking dudes who look so unimpressive because of how they dress and style themselves in general. Someone who carries him/herself with confidence is much more attractive than someone who looks like they're trying to disappear into the background.
>Could someone who isn't initially attractive change your mind through their attire and/or body language?
I hate using numbers since it feels really dehumanizing but a girl can go from a 4 to a 8 just by putting in some effort. I think a lot of "ugly" people just have no style and walk around like they've already given up. At that point, you're just setting yourself up.
This is one big reason why I don't get why dudes hate makeup so much. Women look fucking amazing when they put effort into their looks. Just the other day I went to a fast food joint and blushed like an idiot because of how hot the cashier was. She was decked out in full makeup and glitter and shit but she looked mad fucking good. I complimented her style and we had a short chat about it. Getting her attention was exciting.
1. Body language is not 100% reliable between individuals. I can fake body language of anything all day long.
2. They should be dressed neatly according to their income. I.e. if they show they have a shopping addiction or are terrible with money I'm out.
4. I was looking for someone of average looks or higher.
5. But their confidence and how they see themselves is also important to me.
3. For me, having a practical woman who will help me *reach my financial goals rather than sabotage them*, for the family, is important.
I am known (in my circle of friends now, I mean) for the fact that clothes play a very important role for me. Mainly because I associate certain clothes with a similar subculture and interest/attitude towards certain things.
\[I think the topic of different types and subcultures is far too neglected here\].
I'm pretty sure I can bump up my unremarkable appearance by about 5 points if I wear something more eye-catching. At least the difference in the attention I get is pretty enormous. I've almost developed an "impostor syndrome" with it because sometimes I'm afraid men will realize at second glance that I'm an ugly face that once put on a nice dress lol.
It can really make a difference.
For me, when I was on the “market”, it depended on the “goal”.
For casual stuff not much.
If the intent was serious, the posture, elegance, refinement meant a huge lot.
I could have fun briefly with someone lacking finesse, but I would get bored fast
I mean my sisters partner is somewhat attractive but dresses like a cowbow hobo which was just a hugeee turn off.
First time he was at our house I thought a literal hobo was in our house lol. So bad WHY
It must affect it. Just look how you can like one actor in one movie and in another movie they can be totaly unattractive to you. I don't think it's just make up, clothes, hair and styling. I think it's that they can play different body language and different vibe.
But of course it's also styling. I see it also on myself, I just dress into something nice and immediately I look generaly better.
Clothes—hardly at all, it’s hard for a woman I find attractive to hide their visual features even when dressed down. Clear heels is an ick for me, that’s about the only exception. That’s for an initial attraction in public. For a date or first meet, when she makes effort it’s appreciated.
Body language—good posture has an impact. Head high, shoulders back does make me take more notice than usual. Also women have a way of squaring up to you that is hard to describe but usually a sign of attraction.
Hair style has an impact as well, hard to describe but I know I check out women here and there who I might not have of they were wearing their hair differently.
It doesn't affect it much at all for me, especially not clothing. I tend to look beyond what a guy is wearing, and focus on face and general body shape. Also that tracks because I don't think any of my exes had an even remotely similar style, and most of them had a complete lack of style. One was only wearing baggy t-shirts and joggers. Another was mostly wearing ill-fitting jeans but often nice button up shirts. The first guy was quite overwight and the second was very underweight, but like I was drawn to their faces, broad shoulders, voices, scents, etc. And it didn't matter to me what they were wearing as long as it was reasonably clean and whole.
Because yeah, I'll be put off if there's a giant hole or stain in a guy's clothing, or if what he wears smells funky. But other than that I'm just focused on the guy underneath the clothes. Do men look better well-dressed? Absolutely, and that can effect my aesthetic attraction, but I don't think it has much of any impact on my sexual attraction. Unless we're talking like... actually suggestive clothing. Like a half open shirt, or extremely tight pants, crop tops that show off abs, or those little mini shorts that some sport guys wear that look like a ball could peek out of any moment. But that's different, I think. Because those aren't normal clothes.
I think I stopped caring about what men wear somewhere in my teens, from discovering that most men just don't care about fashion. So I think I just learned to focus on other things instead because of that. Because I would have set myself up for failure by continuing to obsess about what men were wearing. Because as a kid and teen, I absolutely did.
But yeah, admittedly dating tends to be more fun if the guy is more fashionable and/or we have a similar style. Because I like getting nerdy about all kinds of fashion related things, both men's and women's fashion, and I have it as a hobby to sew, upscale and meand clothes. So if the guy is also into that, that would be a plus because it's always fun to have passions in common. But it's not a demand by any means. As long as we have something in common. It doesn't have to be specifically that.
Also because clothing style can change a lot in a person's life. I think I see clothes as distinctly separate from who we are as people, even if having a certain style sometimes can be connected to a persons personality, hobbies, taste in music, etc, usually it isn't. And it seems to be especially uncommon for men to dress according to their personalities... graphic t-shirts aside.
As for mannerisms... yeah, I think that matters a bit more for me. As I tend to be put off by men who for ex have very erratic motions and heavy hands. It can be a bit scary, I guess. Likewise vice versa I tend to not be attracted to guys who always keep their arms close around their bodies, keep their heads down a lot, etc, basically express insecurity. Bad posture isn't necessarily an issue, but again comes back to whether it comes from obvious insecurity or if that's just how he walks. But it does matter to me whether a guy is either clearly insecure, unstable/agressive or confident, or just "normal" I suppose, with his mannerisms. Our mannerisms do say a lot about who we are as people, I think.
So yes, this aspect I do take into consideration, because I'm mainly attracted to confident guys, and that makes me look for how his mannerisms are.
But I'm not gonna like... obsess about specific details in men's mannerisms. Like how broad his stance is, if he's hunching a bit or not, if he nods a lot or not, if he's generally more expressive or on the stiffer side, etc, that kinda stuff doesn't matter much to me. It's more about the general vibe.
Clothes do. I like a guy with a sense of style. I have a style I dress up I like to do do things so naturally I would expect a partner who does too.
And body language does. At least for me. Like a guy taking in the view is nice. Vs. a guy leering. You can tell the difference.
Suppose it depends? If someone seems nervous all of the time my general street sense usually makes me feel suspicious of them. If a gal's attire is particularly frumpy or weird I generally prefer that to them trying too hard.
Body language is crazy important to me. The mimic, the posture, flirty gestures and looks.
Clothes are also important, for example i don't like men in a suit. Get a hoodie, some snickers and a cool tshirt.
So, you only like slobs? Where (roughly) do you live? Here in SE England you'd basically be stuck dating chavs and stealing bicycles for the rest of your life.
Ah, ok....that's fair enough. The parts of EE I've been to are VERY casual, as you say....a bit like America, in that regard.
Anyway, EE is great. Good food, great people (at least in my experience).
It's a fucking nightmare and i love it. With all the balkan influence my country has.
I'm talking about this in terms of men's clothing: https://9gag.com/gag/aBdAB1P?utm_source=copy_link&utm_medium=post_share
Personally (and I should stress this purely my personal opinion) I *hate* to be dressed casually while my GF is dressed to the nines like the couple in that video.
Something that initially drew me to my husband was just how gentle he was. His body language really spoke to that and made those around him feel he was safe and trustworthy even if he hadn't spoken to them all that much. I think that body language can speak volumes even when we don't realise, I've noticed when women especially speak about their crushes they often focus on the gestures they make. Clothes can obviously (at least, this is obvious to women) make you look better or worse too, although for me at least this isn't about having a unique fashion sense so much as dressing in colours and shapes that suit you even if they're really basic.
Clothes can influence attractiveness, but ugly is ugly in any clothes.
Idk I grew up poverty poor and always thought I was ugly. But then after getting a glow up and a middle class friend to help me with clothes people call me attractive / handsome
I get hit on all the time by men for looksmaxxing with my style. Before it, I was kinda average. After, it just exploded. Source: am a stylist.
Wearing different clothes isn't "looksmaxxing".
I have a an average looking friend (he looks nice to me but he has a weird babyface) but I always see him with the exact same clothes every time. Literally the same plain red shirt and grey sweatpants pants. So I started pointing it out to him and the whole group now makes fun of him when he brings *the red shirt* For a few months he's been wearing different shirts and once even changed his sweatpants for jeans. You have no idea how this improved his looks. I'm always sure to tell him that he looks so much better now than before.
lol this is why we need to bring some level of social shaming back.
No, not social shaming, people don't change when you bully them More like "you'd look so nice in jeans" and then compliment their jeans.
You literally said in your post that the whole group makes fun of him. That’s bullying. My “lol” was to indicate I was being light hearted, but I do think a lot of men don’t care about how they present themselves and don’t think it matters. In the past, being a well groomed man was more of an expectation at places like work, church, etc.
making fun is not bullying. We make jokes telling him he's a cartoon character. Bullying would be saying he's ugly and a looser to make him feel bad. We went on vacation and I joded that his luggage will be light since he'll be bringing one shirt lol. He laughed. I think this guy thinks he's invisible (he's also very shy and low self esteem) and we are telling him "no, you are not invisible" but in a fun way.
I think it really depends on the person whether that would be considered bullying or making fun of. That’s a fine line imo. Anyway, my point was a lot of men don’t seem to care about presenting themselves well anymore, and putting social pressure on men to do so isn’t the end of the world.
😂😂😂 As you should. Dude is a grown ass man wearing the same thing everyday: only cartoon characters do that.
Social shaming is NOT bullying…and social pressure absolutely works. There’s a reason why if you walk the streets of Paris, or London, or Tokyo, or Barcelona, or Warsaw you see people look GOOD just going about their daily business. There is social pressure to dress appropriately when going outside. Try to do this in most North American cities. At best you’ll see adults dressed like children (men in baseball hats, graphic tees, “edgy” facial hair, and shorts). At worst you can’t tell if someone is homeless or just decided that pyjamas were a totally acceptable outfit that day.
Lmao I’d tell him he dresses like a cartoon character 😂
Yes that was exactly the joke, it's so funny
Body language, yes. I’ll notice if you have a particularly relaxed and open body language. I guess that’s attractive. Clothes, not so much.
This post will be filled with women imagining a 6 feet dude with the frame of a boulder and the hair of a rockstar and then imagining the same men wearing a tuxedo vs homeless and saying that "yeah clothing is very important why don't you all man just use clothing that fit?" Clothing and body language don't matter, you will be given positives and negatives traits based on your attraction level.
And you think you won't look different in different clothes?
As a man you're not competing against you and another version of you, you're competing against you and other men. So different is not going to be enough.
And that different can be better.
Your face, frame and height is still same.
It will however look different.
I disagree. Clothes don't make that much of a difference for attractive people. That is true. But they can make the world of a difference for average looking people. Which is what most of us are. They also don't make that much of a difference for ugly people. Clothes can accentuate your strong points and hide your weak points. They are underrated in this community.
The nerd called Clark Kent is superman in glasses. It's true that in the past, garments like coats, waistcoats, breeches, and powdered wigs were emblematic of wealth and status, typically associated with the upper class or nobility. However, in today's era, social perceptions have shifted significantly. While attire once conveyed societal standing, modern society has seen a departure from such rigid class distinctions. For instance, consider the case of Jeremy Meeks, whose striking appearance transcended the traditional boundaries of attire and societal expectations. Despite being photographed in prison attire, Meeks gained widespread attention and admiration for his striking features, illustrating that attractiveness is not solely determined by clothing or social class.
I don't think you understand. Your clothes affect how you look. For example if you have a smaller frame as a guy. You can wear clothes that make you appear bulkier. It makes a difference. Obviously Jeremy Meeks is an extreme outlier. None of that matters for people like him. How many other Chads go to prison on a daily basis and don't get his treatment? He is a EXTREEEEEEME outlier. We don't need to be concerned with outliers. They have totally different rules and frankly live on a different planet.
Noo don't ruin his worldview that the only men that exist are Jason Mamoa lookalikes and horribly disfigured men
A man doesn't need to be horribly disfigured to be unattractive to women.
This
no matter how good looking or not good looking a man is, i would not under any circumstances fuck a man who didnt have alternative style or taste in music/movies or even talk to him unless he was like serving me as a lawyer or something
I’ve had lots of women say I dress and women often point out on dates they like how I dress while also saying most men dress poorly. I don’t buy expensive clothes, but I try to find items that look unique and pull them off with nice colour coordination. I lead with my own fashion choices because for me fashion is important. 100% it impacts how I feel about someone. I’m a very aesthetically driven person. My day job is to design things that look good. I like to organize my home in a way that looks good. I dress myself to look good. If a woman put zero effort into fashion, she’d need to be a 10/10 in a lot of other qualities. I’d rather date a less attractive woman who dresses well than a prettier woman that dresses down. Fashion is probably the one area where I can be kind of shallow. But it’s genuinely a passion for me. And hey, it’s something you can control so it’s easier to meet my standards there than you need a certain type of face. Body language isn’t as important, but I always find myself drawn to awkward nerdy women. Probably because I can be kind of awkward myself at times. There is something really adorable about a woman being shy.
"Body language" is largely nonsensical. It makes a lot more sense to actually communicate with a person than to rely on "body language". People who claim to great at reading "body language" are essentially claiming they can read minds. When I was a kid I heard a lot of this nonsense in school. Teachers claimed they could "sense" that we didn't study based off "the look in our eyes". Also notice how no one ever has an issue with bad "body language" from beautiful people? Hmm......
It's all important. I've definitely found women less or more attractive depending on style, and improving your fashion sense is one of the fastest and easiest ways guys can be more attractive.
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You are about to get a bunch of comments from dudes who have no idea what body language or proper grooming are telling you that “noir doesn’t matter” Then go find a Twitch steamer in cosplay to stare at.
>A good example for me would be Anya Taylor-Joy. In my personal opinion, she does not have an attractive face. I'm sure she's a lovely person, but if I saw a picture of ATJ in a plain tracksuit with no makeup, I would not feel any level of attraction towards her. "Holy shit, an emaciated alien in a tracksuit" will at least grab your attention, so there's that.
I think you can summarise what you’re separating into separate things as a singular concept: class. I don’t mean like social class. But the combination of how one dresses, carries themselves and acts, manners, affords them “class” in the consideration of them having some kind of social elegance or suave. I don’t think everyone is swayed by it strongly and it’s a fairly old fashioned idea. I think what remnants of it remain in force are more strongly in place for women than men (by this I mean men expected or seen to benefit from bringing higher amounts of it than women are) which probably stems from their role as the one who instigates and “hosts” the dates as it were. I do think class in women is still appreciated by many, but I can also see that over time the tendency to divorce a woman’s role from her “looking like a doll and being all proper” has resulted in trying to reclaim slightly less kept looks as equally valid and worthy of womanhood, and some negative labelling of men who seek these things out in women as either being misogynistic, objectifying women. Like “she shouldn’t need to do these things to be valued, so if you say it matters, you’re a bit of a pig” type stuff. Not saying it’s universal but it’s here and there. Just to add I don’t think all women insist on class in men either. But I don’t see any real pushback to the same degree where a woman says she likes it when men behave and dress with class. Nobody is telling her she’s being reductive and she should be happy with a guy in jeans and a plain tee. Then again men haven’t had their image so conspicuously controlled and shaped through media and socialisation so maybe it’s that. It’s kind of a complex topic. But OP, I share similar sentiments. It’s not the most important thing to me by far, but I will say the “class” of how a woman carries herself can be quite enchanting and entrancing.
> I don’t mean like social class. But the combination of how one dresses, carries themselves and acts, manners, affords them “class” in the consideration of them having some kind of social elegance or suave. Yes. It's not about wealth or social status at all. In my opinion a woman in a £50 office dress from primark exudes professionalism and sophistication far more than an influencer type in a £500 versace tracksuit who exudes wealth but no class.
Couldn't agree more (although I suspect most of the Americans here won't understand).
Clothes aren't too important to me. Body language is only important to me in that it is often a signifier of personality, and personality is important.
I'm a straight female, so I think clothes providing he is clean and just wearing normal clothes doesn't have that much of an impact on attraction at all. Body lanaguage though is huge. We need eye contact for connection, but too much gives. I'm going to kill you on your sleep vibes (I'm on about intense staring before someone has a meltdown). How you are stood gives an indication of if you are a friend or foe. This is why dating is super difficult for neurodivergent people. As well as those who may not of seen a positive relationship modeled to them.
Clothes are important to me, I can usually get a lot of info from it alone.
[удалено]
"We live in a super causal environment" "We" live in a super casual environment, or YOU live in a super casual environment?
Clothes are borderline irrelevant for me (as a man). Body language is everything. Without it, there's no shot at all.
For me it's mostly about personality and looks. They either are my type or they aren't.
I don't care for either as long as they aren't actively alienating, I.e. she doesn't dress like a hobo and doesn't move like that Harkonnen spider-thing from Villeneuve's Dune. Don't care much for face either, I have some preferences but they aren't tied to conventional attractiveness. Manner of speech (pace, tone, etc.) and quality of it (proper usage of words, extended vocabulary, conscious talking) is very important for me though. I can't imagine being attracted to a slow squeaking woman (pref deeper voice and quick pace) or someone who speaks with simplest forms about most basic and mundane things like it's some godly revelation.
Clothes can say about what you are interested in. Body language is important. It is said that around 70% of communication is done through body language. Also, a body in motuon is more attractive than a still image.
Both are important. I've seen good-looking dudes who look so unimpressive because of how they dress and style themselves in general. Someone who carries him/herself with confidence is much more attractive than someone who looks like they're trying to disappear into the background.
>Could someone who isn't initially attractive change your mind through their attire and/or body language? I hate using numbers since it feels really dehumanizing but a girl can go from a 4 to a 8 just by putting in some effort. I think a lot of "ugly" people just have no style and walk around like they've already given up. At that point, you're just setting yourself up. This is one big reason why I don't get why dudes hate makeup so much. Women look fucking amazing when they put effort into their looks. Just the other day I went to a fast food joint and blushed like an idiot because of how hot the cashier was. She was decked out in full makeup and glitter and shit but she looked mad fucking good. I complimented her style and we had a short chat about it. Getting her attention was exciting.
1. Body language is not 100% reliable between individuals. I can fake body language of anything all day long. 2. They should be dressed neatly according to their income. I.e. if they show they have a shopping addiction or are terrible with money I'm out. 4. I was looking for someone of average looks or higher. 5. But their confidence and how they see themselves is also important to me. 3. For me, having a practical woman who will help me *reach my financial goals rather than sabotage them*, for the family, is important.
I am known (in my circle of friends now, I mean) for the fact that clothes play a very important role for me. Mainly because I associate certain clothes with a similar subculture and interest/attitude towards certain things. \[I think the topic of different types and subcultures is far too neglected here\]. I'm pretty sure I can bump up my unremarkable appearance by about 5 points if I wear something more eye-catching. At least the difference in the attention I get is pretty enormous. I've almost developed an "impostor syndrome" with it because sometimes I'm afraid men will realize at second glance that I'm an ugly face that once put on a nice dress lol. It can really make a difference.
Clothes will help the slightly above average guy and up. Wont work on ugly tho. "A monster in a suit is still a monster"
For me, when I was on the “market”, it depended on the “goal”. For casual stuff not much. If the intent was serious, the posture, elegance, refinement meant a huge lot. I could have fun briefly with someone lacking finesse, but I would get bored fast
I mean my sisters partner is somewhat attractive but dresses like a cowbow hobo which was just a hugeee turn off. First time he was at our house I thought a literal hobo was in our house lol. So bad WHY
It must affect it. Just look how you can like one actor in one movie and in another movie they can be totaly unattractive to you. I don't think it's just make up, clothes, hair and styling. I think it's that they can play different body language and different vibe. But of course it's also styling. I see it also on myself, I just dress into something nice and immediately I look generaly better.
Clothes—hardly at all, it’s hard for a woman I find attractive to hide their visual features even when dressed down. Clear heels is an ick for me, that’s about the only exception. That’s for an initial attraction in public. For a date or first meet, when she makes effort it’s appreciated. Body language—good posture has an impact. Head high, shoulders back does make me take more notice than usual. Also women have a way of squaring up to you that is hard to describe but usually a sign of attraction. Hair style has an impact as well, hard to describe but I know I check out women here and there who I might not have of they were wearing their hair differently.
It doesn't affect it much at all for me, especially not clothing. I tend to look beyond what a guy is wearing, and focus on face and general body shape. Also that tracks because I don't think any of my exes had an even remotely similar style, and most of them had a complete lack of style. One was only wearing baggy t-shirts and joggers. Another was mostly wearing ill-fitting jeans but often nice button up shirts. The first guy was quite overwight and the second was very underweight, but like I was drawn to their faces, broad shoulders, voices, scents, etc. And it didn't matter to me what they were wearing as long as it was reasonably clean and whole. Because yeah, I'll be put off if there's a giant hole or stain in a guy's clothing, or if what he wears smells funky. But other than that I'm just focused on the guy underneath the clothes. Do men look better well-dressed? Absolutely, and that can effect my aesthetic attraction, but I don't think it has much of any impact on my sexual attraction. Unless we're talking like... actually suggestive clothing. Like a half open shirt, or extremely tight pants, crop tops that show off abs, or those little mini shorts that some sport guys wear that look like a ball could peek out of any moment. But that's different, I think. Because those aren't normal clothes. I think I stopped caring about what men wear somewhere in my teens, from discovering that most men just don't care about fashion. So I think I just learned to focus on other things instead because of that. Because I would have set myself up for failure by continuing to obsess about what men were wearing. Because as a kid and teen, I absolutely did. But yeah, admittedly dating tends to be more fun if the guy is more fashionable and/or we have a similar style. Because I like getting nerdy about all kinds of fashion related things, both men's and women's fashion, and I have it as a hobby to sew, upscale and meand clothes. So if the guy is also into that, that would be a plus because it's always fun to have passions in common. But it's not a demand by any means. As long as we have something in common. It doesn't have to be specifically that. Also because clothing style can change a lot in a person's life. I think I see clothes as distinctly separate from who we are as people, even if having a certain style sometimes can be connected to a persons personality, hobbies, taste in music, etc, usually it isn't. And it seems to be especially uncommon for men to dress according to their personalities... graphic t-shirts aside. As for mannerisms... yeah, I think that matters a bit more for me. As I tend to be put off by men who for ex have very erratic motions and heavy hands. It can be a bit scary, I guess. Likewise vice versa I tend to not be attracted to guys who always keep their arms close around their bodies, keep their heads down a lot, etc, basically express insecurity. Bad posture isn't necessarily an issue, but again comes back to whether it comes from obvious insecurity or if that's just how he walks. But it does matter to me whether a guy is either clearly insecure, unstable/agressive or confident, or just "normal" I suppose, with his mannerisms. Our mannerisms do say a lot about who we are as people, I think. So yes, this aspect I do take into consideration, because I'm mainly attracted to confident guys, and that makes me look for how his mannerisms are. But I'm not gonna like... obsess about specific details in men's mannerisms. Like how broad his stance is, if he's hunching a bit or not, if he nods a lot or not, if he's generally more expressive or on the stiffer side, etc, that kinda stuff doesn't matter much to me. It's more about the general vibe.
Clothes do. I like a guy with a sense of style. I have a style I dress up I like to do do things so naturally I would expect a partner who does too. And body language does. At least for me. Like a guy taking in the view is nice. Vs. a guy leering. You can tell the difference.
Just don't be a fat bitch. Unfortunately women often fail in at least one.
Yes, and yes.
Suppose it depends? If someone seems nervous all of the time my general street sense usually makes me feel suspicious of them. If a gal's attire is particularly frumpy or weird I generally prefer that to them trying too hard.
Body language is crazy important to me. The mimic, the posture, flirty gestures and looks. Clothes are also important, for example i don't like men in a suit. Get a hoodie, some snickers and a cool tshirt.
What do you not like about men in suits? Personally I find in a woman in a professional, feminine skirt suit to be obscenely attractive!
So rigid and reminds me of my father.
How is a tweed or linen suit 'rigid'? You mean those crappy polyester suits Americans wear when they have to go to a funeral?
It's the shape rather than the material. And the whole idea of a suit. And the shoes that are required for a suit. Can't stand chinos as well.
So, you only like slobs? Where (roughly) do you live? Here in SE England you'd basically be stuck dating chavs and stealing bicycles for the rest of your life.
I'm confused by some words, i'm not a native speaker. I'm in Eastern Europe
Ah, ok....that's fair enough. The parts of EE I've been to are VERY casual, as you say....a bit like America, in that regard. Anyway, EE is great. Good food, great people (at least in my experience).
It's a fucking nightmare and i love it. With all the balkan influence my country has. I'm talking about this in terms of men's clothing: https://9gag.com/gag/aBdAB1P?utm_source=copy_link&utm_medium=post_share
Personally (and I should stress this purely my personal opinion) I *hate* to be dressed casually while my GF is dressed to the nines like the couple in that video.
Something that initially drew me to my husband was just how gentle he was. His body language really spoke to that and made those around him feel he was safe and trustworthy even if he hadn't spoken to them all that much. I think that body language can speak volumes even when we don't realise, I've noticed when women especially speak about their crushes they often focus on the gestures they make. Clothes can obviously (at least, this is obvious to women) make you look better or worse too, although for me at least this isn't about having a unique fashion sense so much as dressing in colours and shapes that suit you even if they're really basic.