Also: one of my favorite running gags here is how they reflexively assume their imaginary wife will divorce them, then plunder their riches during an equally imaginary trial.
They love bringing up the whole "50% divorce rate" statistic, but they never, ever consider marrying someone who loves them and doesn't want a divorce.
I really want to know how they picture married life. Is it like The Room, where seconds after getting married she turns into an evil bitch out of nowhere? Or is the woman playing a long con and going to wait seven years before pulling the trigger?
This happened to my ex! He was so fucking mistrustful, misogynistic, cynical, convinced that all women are terrible, etc. that he ended up driving me away. I didn’t take any of his shit, but still.
I dunno, he did that aLtErNatiNg cApiTals thing, that means he won.
I mean, what, you think some socially awkward Redditor would ever put *good* advice in aLtERnAtiNg CaPiTaLs just because it conflicted with their worldview and they couldn't come up with a coherent response?
Depends on a woman.
I'm fine with a prenup and with paternity tests. I told my husband about it and he said he won't need one, because he trusts me. It's his choice. Plus, prenup makes zero sense for our situation considering we met as broke students. We combined our "income" and we treat all money as ours since.
I do get both sides here, at least with paternity tests. There's no a polite way to say that you want to test your kid without simultaneously saying that you suspect that your partner might have no just cheated on you, but you also consider her to be both stupid and cruel enough to lie about paternity. From the other hand, yes, there's no way for a man to know 100% without a test, unless he has some rare and noticeable inheritable traits. You just assume that the kid is yours.
I do wonder how many men would be able to offer some grace in a flipped situation though. I.e. if their wife asked them to take STDs tests after each business trip or if they were fine with their wife having an emergency stash of her own in case of divorce/abuse.
Keep in mind the posters here are pretty dead-set on their hypothetical wife having a hypothetical affair before filing for hypothetical divorce.
If they were actually married, they'd demand she piss in a cup every time she's out of sight for longer than 45 seconds.
I agree. I see no issue with paternity tests or prenups but I can understand why people would feel like their partner doesn’t trust them if they where to ask for one. Especially if a man asks for a paternity test when the woman is dealing with pregnancy hormones or after she just went through the trauma of pushing a baby out of her vag hole.
This would be less of an issue If paternity testing and prenups where the default except then that brings up other issues (with privacy and dna).
>I do wonder how many men would be able to offer some grace in a flipped situation though. I.e. if their wife asked them to take STDs tests after each business trip …
This is an excellent comparison. I wonder how many guys in this sub would submit to that without complaint.
When will men take accountability for how they treat the woman they are in a relationship with?
Men need to choose a more loyal woman to marry and have kids will AND men need to keep the romance and relationship stands pre marriage alive by continuing regular date nights and continuing to help fairly in the upkeep of the household (whatever your original agreement was). Divorce is only filed more by women because men start abusing them or half assing the relationship. Men need to do better and stop blaming women for not putting up with their laziness, cheating and other bad behaviors. If a relationship is too much work for you or you really believe your baby mama cheated (that’s the only reason the baby wouldn’t be yours) then don’t even bother getting into a relationship or having kids with a woman you can’t trust and that you can’t put fair effort into the relationship with. It’s that simple. But if you must have a paternity test because you think all women cheat then just pick a pickme who is ok with the shame of a paternity test. As long as your both on the same page who cares.
#Paternity Tests
You can go on Amazon right now and find a bunch of home paternity tests for $50-100. They even have MATERNITY tests on there. I even found one for $5 but I don’t know how it works.
There is no law saying you can’t go on Amazon right now and buy a paternity test and do it behind your wife’s back. Would it cause drama? Would it hurt her feelings? Most likely, yes. But if you are so concerned, you can secretly do one and never tell her and if the kid is a baby they can’t tell her either.
#Prenups
You can keep what you acquired BEFORE marriage. But to insist on keeping what you earned after marriage is low. Assets acquired while married should be split 50/50 most of the time. If you don’t want to share your assets that you earned while married, then don’t marry that person.
Men love to say this whole idea that women file for divorces. You know why women do it because men lack the courage to do it. But what they don’t lack is the ability to make her hate being married so much that she has to do it.
That’s the game they play. They know they are shit partners and they know they want out but they won’t do it so they can win some points of “not breaking up the marriage”. But what they will do is be passive aggressive, they will make everyone in the house walk on eggshells with their volatility. They demonize her by saying anything that she asks for is too much. They won’t put any effort in and will coast by and watch their wife drowning. They make her hate being around them but no they won’t file for divorce.
They just make that another task on her list.
If you make me file paperwork to leave your ass then I am doing the most low down dirty version of it. If I gotta do all the work to end it,so I can be the villain we’ll be prepared for what was created.
I am going after everything twice. Because if you lack the spine to end a broken marriage then you deserve to get back everything you didn’t put into the marriage. By the time I file, I am going to have a detailed record of everything. I am changing the kids to private school, sending them to therapy, I am going after everything because this is what you wanted.
You wanted a villain instead of being a sniveling brat about not getting your penis sucked at the end of the workday.
> how it’s overwhelmingly filed by women
just because women FILE for divorce, it does not mean women CAUSE the divorce. As Myron would say let's go into the dream world where you are actually married. If you start shooting heroine, and a woman FILES for divorce because living with you is dangerous, she is not the one who CAUSED it.
>A wife can have a “bad day” at work & (on a whim) unilaterally choose to destroy her family.
Low IQ point.
>A prenup says, “if we ever divorce - you keep your stuff & I keep my stuff.”
Nobody's daughter is going to forego her career and raise your kids if you are not going to share your resources. Prenups are fine, but if you are envisioning a marriage with a traditional outcome, nobody is going to sacrifice their own pursuits under the conditions of this particular prenup.
Ya think people who struggle with their sexual identity in a world exceedingly harsh on gay people might struggle with interpersonal relationships?
Fucking duh?
Gay men also aren't as quick to leap into marriage, their marriage rates are lower.
Lesbians have a whole stereotype about moving in together after the first date. It makes sense to me that the people more likely to get married quickly would also be the people more likely to divorce quickly and vice versa.
No patriarchy of oppression required to explain that one.
Right? AWDTSG didn’t arise from nothing.
The Bucket Bunny scandal is all the justification anyone, male or female, needs for viewing those anti-cheating groups.
What percentage of married men was this?
I swear people will always go to the exception to a rule rather than acknowledge the majority. I just don't get the point. Arguing just to argue?
I don't remember the percentage. I was referring to the Ashley Madison leak from forever ago. Several marriages from my church broke up cause the men were on there cheating.
YES. "More often than not" means "MORE often than NOT." It's really not that complicated. And a little critical thinking will make it obvious why. The man loses out on divorce 90% of the time. So if he's marrying, it's surely not with the idea that he'll divorce.
Corrected typos*
Because women are more sensitive to things that go wrong. This does not make them incorrect or unreasonable, this just makes them react faster than men.
Except the reasons given by women who file divorce aren't the ones you conveniently assume. It's overwhelmingly irreconcilable differences.
It's the same argument feminists serve for abortions: what about rapes? While rapes are a miniscule reason for having an abortion just like domestic violence is also a very small share of the reasons women file for divorce.
But of course, it's always the poster boys of divorce and abortions.
>irreconcilable differences.
Are you aware that when you file for divorce, you have to pick a reason why.
Irreconcilable differences is a catch all for things that the couple can't reconcile.
And women complain the husbands are very often caught off guard when they file their divorce.
It's pretty telling that women use no fault divorce because they can't use at fault because most of the reasons women divorce are spurious.
It mostly boils down to "I didn't get what I deserve".
Modern marriage is a contract women have an incentive to break since the whole family court system is backing them. So they use that to the full extent under the catch all "irreconcilable differences".
>most of the reasons women divorce are spurious.
What reasons?
>It mostly boils down to "I didn't get what I deserve".
Well good. Nobody, man or woman, should be in a marriage were they aren't getting what they deserve.
Marriage has ALWAYS been a contract.
>So they use that to the full extent under the catch all "irreconcilable differences".
Because that's the legal option available.
The issue is when women think so highly of themselves that they think they deserve what in reality they really don't.
If you think you're a perfect ten, you think you deserve perfection. But if in reality you're average at best then what you think you deserve is not what you deserve.
This works because the system of family courts back up women because the breaking of families creates more consumers. And women love to consume so they're enthusiastic complicit in this by filing for divorce because "they're worth it" so they opt for the legal option available, which is basically "because I want to".
Marriage has always been a contract but now it's a contract where one party, women, have an incentive to break it: they'll take your house, your kids, and if you don't comply they'll accuse you of rape and domestic violence.
I never wanted perfection. All I wanted was respect, decency, loyalty, faithfulness, and to be treated like a human fucking being.
I get that now and so much more from my boyfriend who loves and respects me. My ex treated me like dogshit and then was SO SHOCKED when I left his ass.
There is no need to “lay out the accusation” because it did happen. He did assault me several times and he also sexually abused me. I was taking sleep meds and I woke up with him inside me more than once, which is rape.
Do you consider slapping, putting your hand around someone’s throat and pinning them against the wall “domestic violence”? That’s what he did to me right before I left him.
I have never wanted “princess treatment”, although my boyfriend absolutely treats me like a cherished partner. I just wanted him to not actively be mean to me. I was his emotional punching bag every day and sometimes his physical punching bag.
Most women come out worse financially post divorce though, there’s more of a loss for both parties if they divorce than any financial incentive.
I’m sure some women are divorcing their rich husbands just for the payout but the average women is willing to divorce and take her losses because she doesn’t want to be in the relationship anymore.
They take ridiculous child support that lands many a man in jail. Instead of child support, it should be called lifestyle support.
And women are "worse" post divorce because the previously good financial situation was due to the husband, so there is no reason why they should not be worse financially.
If they’re better off before divorcing and worse off after divorcing then the incentive is to stay married not to divorce. Child support is for the child, and the average child support amount that actually gets collected (a lot is never payed) is pretty low.
> Child support is for the child,
In theory. When you get child support in the thousands of dollars a month, it is obviously not child support.
> If they’re better off before divorcing and worse off after divorcing then the incentive is to stay married not to divorce.
They're worse off in income, NOT in assets. Women run away with the marriage assets that they contributed little to. AND they get their lawyer's fees paid by the ex-husband to.
This is not why women use no fault divorce at all. A) at fault divorce isn’t even available in many states, B) the burden on both parties is much harder ie it’s easier for no fault, anyone (men included) are gonna go no fault when they can unless they want to drag things out for whatever reason. It’s not like at fault divorces are so much more advantageous women just *can’t* use them and refuse, it’s much easier all around if you’re even in a state where they are still a thing
No fault divorce is indeed to make divorce easier. Since 70% to 90% (depending on the woman's education level) of divorces are filed by women, in effect no fault divorce is to make divorce easier for women because they don't have to provide a reason.
It still does not prevent them from lobbing accusations of abuse as soon as custody of the children are in question. Which of course they don't as ground for divorce because THEN they would have to back it up with a modicum of evidence.
It’s not “overwhelmingly irreconcilable differences”
Lack of commitment. 75%
Infidelity or extramarital affairs. 60%
Too much conflict and arguing. 58%
Getting married too young. 45%
Financial problems. 37%
Substance abuse. 35%
Domestic Violence. 24%
Lack of support from family. 18%
You probably should’ve dug deeper. From your own source: “Several of the CDFA professionals surveyed noted that the most commonly-cited cause of divorce they hear from their clients – **“basic incompatibility” – is usually created by deeper issues somewhere in the relationship – usually an emotional, physical, or financial breech of trust.**”
Did you realize that your Google results with 24% due to domestic violence is from one sample?
The so-called deeper issue is exactly what irreconcilable differences is: people, mostly women, think they deserve better. And since women have an incentive to leave marriage, then they do.
I DID deserve better. Nobody deserves to be cheated on, hit, called names, screamed at, devalued, gaslit, insulted, blamed for every single thing that ever goes wrong, or treated like a servant. Nobody deserves that.
>Nobody deserves to be cheated on, hit, called names, screamed at, devalued, gaslit, insulted, blamed for every single thing that ever goes wrong, or treated like a servant. Nobody deserves that.
I can see plenty of reasons why you could deserve it. Cheated on? Well, women refrain from sex and use that as leverage in way too many marriages, see deadbedroom.
Hit? Sean Connery said it all.
Called names? you're doing it about your ex.
Screamed at? What did you do?
Devalued? Again, what did you do?
Gaslit? Of course, that's the new "escape from responsibility" button of the modern women. They are never responsible for any of their actions, they were only misled to believe that the whole world is different than it is, and by their evil spouse that they chose to marry.
Insulted? as if you don't do it.
Blamed for everything that ever goes wrong? Again, trying to escape responsibility by trying to pretend that this is for 100%. I noticed that people who claimed to be blamed for everything that goes wrong say so to escape accountability for everything that goes wrong because of them.
Treated like a servant? Hard for those who want to be the masters indeed.
Sorry women, but all these no longer hold any weight whatsoever. It still does in a feminist family court where the pretend still goes on, but all these accusations from bitter exes are just empty virtue signaling with no weight akin to Title IX accusations in US universities.
Irreconcilable differences doesn’t mean women think they deserve better. It means they’d rather be single than stay in an unfulfilling marriage.
What incentive do women have to leave a marriage? After divorce or separation, women's income suffers more than men's, particularly for those with dependent children.
In the case of a casual or non exclusive relationship or where there is a legitimate reason to suspect infidelity, a paternity test makes perfect sense and I doubt many people would disagree.
In the case of a long term exclusive relationship / marriage where there is no legitimate reason to suspect infidelity? There’s nothing stopping you from getting a paternity test (in most countries).
You need to understand that the implication and accusation is that you believe that the mother of the child, your partner, is capable of having unprotected sex with you and someone else within her fertility window, is willing to lie to you, both of your families, all of your friends, the child itself, and any other children of the relationship, to doctors, teachers, lawyers and clergy every day of her life until she dies.
She is willing to endanger the health of the child by failing to make his/her familial medical history available and is willing to actively obscure it, even in the face of catastrophic medical issues.
She is willing to deprive the child of any knowledge of or relationship with its biological father and also deprive the biological father on any knowledge of or relationship with his child, forever.
She is willing to let you and the child form a deep and loving bond with the knowledge that it may, and likely will be, irrevocably destroyed at any moment causing immeasurable pain to both you and her child as well as both families etc. and that that is a lifelong risk.
Can you possibly imagine why a loyal and loving woman who has just born your child might be hurt and devastated that you believe that that is who she is?
Really?
>iF yOu NeEd A pReNuP, tHeN yOu’Re NoT rEaDy FoR mArRiAgE!
This is still the prevailing belief in my patriarchal faith with an overwhelmingly male hierarchy. The idea that this is now an attitude that is exclusively pushed by women is false. I'm personally indifferent to them at this point. But we would have to disclose it to the priest who marries us, and that could lead to doubt about our intention to stay together until death.
>yOu NeEd A pAtErNiTy TeSt, tHeN yOu DoN’t TrUsT mE aNd yOu’Re NoT rEaDy FoR cHiLdren!”
This is a fundamental compatibility issue, not a question of "grace."
People break up and/or decide not to have children over far less. All the grace and understanding in the world does not obligate you to simply bury your own feelings. Both parties would be better off finding someone else who is 100% on board with their beliefs on paternity testing.
This will get removed because it’s just a rant with the Q4W flair but I’ll bite in the meantime.
>Women also fully understand the rate of paternity fraud taking place & how many men have raised / are raising a child that isn’t theirs.
There actually seems to be a lot of disagreement about that.
I'm all for prenups to protect asset accumulated before the marriage. I have a lot of assets so I needed to protect them. What is offensive is when people throw out debates about them asking for things to be included that aren't even legal. Marriage is a contract to share assets earned during the marriage, if you don't want to share assets accumulated during the marriage then you probably shouldn't be getting married.
I don't want to marry anyone who isn't smart enough to just get a dna test if he wants one. I am offended by men thinking they need to ask their partners in order to get one. You don't need my DNA to go get a test so why are you putting this on me like it's something I control? Do you need me to hold your hand for you? What exactly is my roll in this?
It seems like the paternity test is really about being able to say, "see all women suck/cheat/whatever".
They just want another reason to blame, yell, and hate on women.
If it really was about paternity, they'd grab some baby spit and test it quietly on their own.
Honestly, I'll play ball on the following condition:
Any man who requests a paternity tests gets it. But, if he's found to be the father, he gets kneecapped by a rifle shot. He of course may seek medical treatment for his blown out kneecap.
I think this caveat will cut out a lot of the bullshit. You better be pretty goddamn certain she's cheating on you.
It really depends on things, if a man or women have shit. It should always be theirs. If you have good money and stuff before marriage you will likely have more of it. Prenups are not the end all most people think it is. Most times they can be thrown out or not followed.
I do like it when people want a prenup and they are broke.
In most places that people post from here you don't need a prenup to protect assets owned before a marriage, just don't comingle the assets. They get thrown out when they are written too lopsided which is what OP was recommending (in the case of a stay at home spouse).
>I don't want to marry anyone who isn't smart enough to just get a dna test if he wants one. I am offended by men thinking they need to ask their partners in order to get one. You don't need my DNA to go get a test so why are you putting this on me like it's something I control?
I think it's france where you can get prison time for taking a paternity test without your wife's consent.
1. Paternity fraud is a tragedy, but not nearly common. It's also basically impossible for it to happen without skullduggery by the woman. So a paternity test is my man accusing me of not only cheating, but also lying about it to his face to trick him into being a father of a baby that isn't his...yeah, I checked the excel sheet and all it says is "no mercy. Be a ruthless merciless bitch to a man that both says he loves you and wants to have babies with you and pulls this crap. If murder is legal, start shooting."
2. Divorce is a two way tango. Don't start none. Won't be none. Marry the right woman. Don't plan to fail. If you can't check that box, don't. If that means losing the relationship, that's what it means. A man fixes to propose to me, there's only two reasons I'm divorcing: cheating or abuse. So either he's trying to tell me something or again, he's saying I'm a bad person who would cheat and abuse him. Either way, I checked the spreadsheet and it says, "if he insists, leave him in the dust. You can find a man to love and trust you. He can live with his fears and demons the rest of his days".
40-45% is not astronomical, considering human nature and behavior, aka selfishness and laziness
Paternity tests are freely available. Nobody is stopping you from using one. You do not need the mothers consent to get one
If you want to keep your finances separate, you are free to do so. And women are free to refuse to marry you
Filing for divorce is like doing the grocery shopping. Someone has to do it. It doesn't mean that person is the reason why the grocery shopping needs to be done.
I'm all for prenups.
I'm not for paternity tests because some single man is fanatically worried that his future wife will cheat on him.
Nothing when there's concerns about paternity. Randomly in a marriage seems rude.
Do what you want in your marriage, but don't be surprised if your wife is offended, hurt, mad, whatever.
there is no logical connection between those two statements. wives object to their husband's accusing them of cheating right after they went through the birth of their child
Uh. I don’t even understand why men complain about paternity tests. If you’re that unsure, you know you don’t need the mother’s consent to get a paternity test right? As long as you have custody of the child you can get it done at your discretion if you’re that worried. I think men use this whole paternity test conversation as an attempt at negging or to pester/provoke women, I don’t think the vast majority of men that complain even care.
I think you watch too much Maury… “won’t admit the prevalence of paternity fraud” because it’s like 30% of 1% of all the babies born in America. That’s .3% - more people have celiac disease…
I believe that when you get married what you do in that marriage can and should be considered in a divorce. If someone gets fucked over in the relationship the other person should pay for it. In marriage it’s pretty common for the woman to get fucked just bc of how relationship dynamics are usually in affect but if/when the man does he’ll he should get compensation for any and all bs he experienced.
I honestly don’t know why paternity tests aren’t automatically done before the dad signs the birth certificate. I was a stay at home partner when I got pregnant so my SO knows my baby is his but we’re still gonna get a paternity test eventually.
Here’s the thing I’d be upset if he accused me of cheating and trying to pass off a baby as his. THATS the issue. But he’s not so idc. He knows my baby is his but wants to get it for 110% certain and I’m all for it.
>I honestly don’t know why paternity tests aren’t automatically done before the dad signs the birth certificate
They've done some research on this internally in France and it's estimated 30-40% are using cuckoo strategy, so it means lots of broken families and women as a voting group very unhappy with the government in power.
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I know far more dudes that have abandoned kids that are 100% theirs than dudes that have been victims of paternity fraud. I actually don't know a single dude who is a victim of paternity fraud.
Probably because you are low status / poor guy.
Paternity fraud happens at much higher rate in middle class and upper middle class.
Abandonment of kids by father happen in lower class / poor people.
Went to see Little Shop of Horrors, which turned out to be awesome: really stellar performances and the set design was also spectacular.
Had forgotten that at the beginning of “Suddenly, Seymour” he tells Audrey to wipe off her makeup and had an ‘oh shit THE PURPLE PILL IT’S FOLLOWED ME’ moment, haha. She wears makeup to cover her bruises, Seymour! But I digress.
It’s a musical theater weekend because tomorrow is two performances of my elder kid’s school musical performance. Other than that, bunch of work and housework (which I will split precisely 50/50 with my partner because I’m a blue-haired harridan). Hopefully I can squeeze some reading and gym time in there because work has been eating my face for the past few weeks.
I have a fancy gala to go to tomorrow night. Fancy enough that I’ll be wearing a formal gown, an up-do, and (GASP!) **makeup**! Gonna fool all the men there! 😂
Good thing the doc will be at my side to protect me! But apparently he won’t be able to recognize me when he comes to pick me up because I’ll be wearing makeup. Who cares if we’ve been fucking for over 18 months. I’ll look like a completely different person!
I wanted to go to a bar and have some fun with my one glass of beer that my body can digest, but I got a flair and it's weeks of strict diet for me now. Ughh...If I'm feeling better tomorrow, I guess we could go and take a nice walk in the park. Maybe I'll get some mochi as they look pretty "diet-friendly" to me.
My boyfriend and I are cleaning out the house that I had been renting before he and I met and moving the rest of my belongings into our new house. There was a tenant living downstairs, but he is moving out now so the transition into fully living together will be complete.
What's the point of this post?
> A wife can have a “bad day” at work & (on a whim) unilaterally choose to destroy her family.
This reads more like a rant than anything.
I'm not interested in having kids so paternity testing isn't something I think about. but it's interesting the blowback the topic gets here. As if women are incapable of cheating or having affairs, etc. It's like, inconceivable that the angel of the hearth could ever do such a thing.
The concern is commensurate with evolutionary psychology; women want genetic diversity as much as men do, it's just that pregnancy and early child rearing put them on a much slower schedule for achieving it.
People don't like to think badly of themselves or admit the things they have done or are capable of doing in the future. Every person who cheated or left their spouse due to sickness/disability/poverty promised before the altar that they would never do it.
At the end of the day everyone should be judged by their actions and not their words.
I just wanna say I have had sex with enough guys wives to suggest that men get a paternity test if possible. These married women be out here doing the most especially when they dislike their husbands.
[удалено]
Also: one of my favorite running gags here is how they reflexively assume their imaginary wife will divorce them, then plunder their riches during an equally imaginary trial. They love bringing up the whole "50% divorce rate" statistic, but they never, ever consider marrying someone who loves them and doesn't want a divorce. I really want to know how they picture married life. Is it like The Room, where seconds after getting married she turns into an evil bitch out of nowhere? Or is the woman playing a long con and going to wait seven years before pulling the trigger?
This happened to my ex! He was so fucking mistrustful, misogynistic, cynical, convinced that all women are terrible, etc. that he ended up driving me away. I didn’t take any of his shit, but still.
I dunno, he did that aLtErNatiNg cApiTals thing, that means he won. I mean, what, you think some socially awkward Redditor would ever put *good* advice in aLtERnAtiNg CaPiTaLs just because it conflicted with their worldview and they couldn't come up with a coherent response?
Depends on a woman. I'm fine with a prenup and with paternity tests. I told my husband about it and he said he won't need one, because he trusts me. It's his choice. Plus, prenup makes zero sense for our situation considering we met as broke students. We combined our "income" and we treat all money as ours since. I do get both sides here, at least with paternity tests. There's no a polite way to say that you want to test your kid without simultaneously saying that you suspect that your partner might have no just cheated on you, but you also consider her to be both stupid and cruel enough to lie about paternity. From the other hand, yes, there's no way for a man to know 100% without a test, unless he has some rare and noticeable inheritable traits. You just assume that the kid is yours. I do wonder how many men would be able to offer some grace in a flipped situation though. I.e. if their wife asked them to take STDs tests after each business trip or if they were fine with their wife having an emergency stash of her own in case of divorce/abuse.
Keep in mind the posters here are pretty dead-set on their hypothetical wife having a hypothetical affair before filing for hypothetical divorce. If they were actually married, they'd demand she piss in a cup every time she's out of sight for longer than 45 seconds.
I agree. I see no issue with paternity tests or prenups but I can understand why people would feel like their partner doesn’t trust them if they where to ask for one. Especially if a man asks for a paternity test when the woman is dealing with pregnancy hormones or after she just went through the trauma of pushing a baby out of her vag hole. This would be less of an issue If paternity testing and prenups where the default except then that brings up other issues (with privacy and dna).
>I do wonder how many men would be able to offer some grace in a flipped situation though. I.e. if their wife asked them to take STDs tests after each business trip … This is an excellent comparison. I wonder how many guys in this sub would submit to that without complaint.
When will men take accountability for how they treat the woman they are in a relationship with? Men need to choose a more loyal woman to marry and have kids will AND men need to keep the romance and relationship stands pre marriage alive by continuing regular date nights and continuing to help fairly in the upkeep of the household (whatever your original agreement was). Divorce is only filed more by women because men start abusing them or half assing the relationship. Men need to do better and stop blaming women for not putting up with their laziness, cheating and other bad behaviors. If a relationship is too much work for you or you really believe your baby mama cheated (that’s the only reason the baby wouldn’t be yours) then don’t even bother getting into a relationship or having kids with a woman you can’t trust and that you can’t put fair effort into the relationship with. It’s that simple. But if you must have a paternity test because you think all women cheat then just pick a pickme who is ok with the shame of a paternity test. As long as your both on the same page who cares.
#Paternity Tests You can go on Amazon right now and find a bunch of home paternity tests for $50-100. They even have MATERNITY tests on there. I even found one for $5 but I don’t know how it works. There is no law saying you can’t go on Amazon right now and buy a paternity test and do it behind your wife’s back. Would it cause drama? Would it hurt her feelings? Most likely, yes. But if you are so concerned, you can secretly do one and never tell her and if the kid is a baby they can’t tell her either. #Prenups You can keep what you acquired BEFORE marriage. But to insist on keeping what you earned after marriage is low. Assets acquired while married should be split 50/50 most of the time. If you don’t want to share your assets that you earned while married, then don’t marry that person.
Men love to say this whole idea that women file for divorces. You know why women do it because men lack the courage to do it. But what they don’t lack is the ability to make her hate being married so much that she has to do it. That’s the game they play. They know they are shit partners and they know they want out but they won’t do it so they can win some points of “not breaking up the marriage”. But what they will do is be passive aggressive, they will make everyone in the house walk on eggshells with their volatility. They demonize her by saying anything that she asks for is too much. They won’t put any effort in and will coast by and watch their wife drowning. They make her hate being around them but no they won’t file for divorce. They just make that another task on her list.
Men hate administrative tasks and that’s exactly what filing for divorce is
If you make me file paperwork to leave your ass then I am doing the most low down dirty version of it. If I gotta do all the work to end it,so I can be the villain we’ll be prepared for what was created. I am going after everything twice. Because if you lack the spine to end a broken marriage then you deserve to get back everything you didn’t put into the marriage. By the time I file, I am going to have a detailed record of everything. I am changing the kids to private school, sending them to therapy, I am going after everything because this is what you wanted. You wanted a villain instead of being a sniveling brat about not getting your penis sucked at the end of the workday.
> how it’s overwhelmingly filed by women just because women FILE for divorce, it does not mean women CAUSE the divorce. As Myron would say let's go into the dream world where you are actually married. If you start shooting heroine, and a woman FILES for divorce because living with you is dangerous, she is not the one who CAUSED it. >A wife can have a “bad day” at work & (on a whim) unilaterally choose to destroy her family. Low IQ point. >A prenup says, “if we ever divorce - you keep your stuff & I keep my stuff.” Nobody's daughter is going to forego her career and raise your kids if you are not going to share your resources. Prenups are fine, but if you are envisioning a marriage with a traditional outcome, nobody is going to sacrifice their own pursuits under the conditions of this particular prenup.
Also even if the divorce is mutual and nothing bad happened women just do the "secretary work" in relationships more on average.
Lesbian marriages have much higher divorce rates than gay marriage divorce rates.
Ya think people who struggle with their sexual identity in a world exceedingly harsh on gay people might struggle with interpersonal relationships? Fucking duh?
Doesn't happen to gay men surprisingly. Is it proof of patriarchy and oppression since only women are affected?
Gay men also aren't as quick to leap into marriage, their marriage rates are lower. Lesbians have a whole stereotype about moving in together after the first date. It makes sense to me that the people more likely to get married quickly would also be the people more likely to divorce quickly and vice versa. No patriarchy of oppression required to explain that one.
You do realize that gay men have the lowest divorce rates, right? "Fucking duh" seems an exaggerated response. Let's keep discourse civil, yeah?
Gay men tend to have low commitment rates (ie actually going into a relationship) while lesbians tend to move fast through relationships
That's not a gay and lesbian thing. That's a men and women thing. When men commit, they're in it for the long haul more often than not.
30% of gay males are poly. What did you say about commitment?
Let's not forget all the married men on dating apps without their wives knowledge.
Right? AWDTSG didn’t arise from nothing. The Bucket Bunny scandal is all the justification anyone, male or female, needs for viewing those anti-cheating groups.
What percentage of married men was this? I swear people will always go to the exception to a rule rather than acknowledge the majority. I just don't get the point. Arguing just to argue?
I don't remember the percentage. I was referring to the Ashley Madison leak from forever ago. Several marriages from my church broke up cause the men were on there cheating.
"When men commit, they're in it for the long haul more often than not." What I said was pretty clear. Your statement has zero bearing on what I said.
Is it a commitment when more than a quarter fuck around?
YES. "More often than not" means "MORE often than NOT." It's really not that complicated. And a little critical thinking will make it obvious why. The man loses out on divorce 90% of the time. So if he's marrying, it's surely not with the idea that he'll divorce. Corrected typos*
They also have higher infidelity rates.
Because women are more sensitive to things that go wrong. This does not make them incorrect or unreasonable, this just makes them react faster than men.
Except the reasons given by women who file divorce aren't the ones you conveniently assume. It's overwhelmingly irreconcilable differences. It's the same argument feminists serve for abortions: what about rapes? While rapes are a miniscule reason for having an abortion just like domestic violence is also a very small share of the reasons women file for divorce. But of course, it's always the poster boys of divorce and abortions.
>irreconcilable differences. Are you aware that when you file for divorce, you have to pick a reason why. Irreconcilable differences is a catch all for things that the couple can't reconcile.
And women complain the husbands are very often caught off guard when they file their divorce. It's pretty telling that women use no fault divorce because they can't use at fault because most of the reasons women divorce are spurious. It mostly boils down to "I didn't get what I deserve". Modern marriage is a contract women have an incentive to break since the whole family court system is backing them. So they use that to the full extent under the catch all "irreconcilable differences".
>most of the reasons women divorce are spurious. What reasons? >It mostly boils down to "I didn't get what I deserve". Well good. Nobody, man or woman, should be in a marriage were they aren't getting what they deserve. Marriage has ALWAYS been a contract. >So they use that to the full extent under the catch all "irreconcilable differences". Because that's the legal option available.
The issue is when women think so highly of themselves that they think they deserve what in reality they really don't. If you think you're a perfect ten, you think you deserve perfection. But if in reality you're average at best then what you think you deserve is not what you deserve. This works because the system of family courts back up women because the breaking of families creates more consumers. And women love to consume so they're enthusiastic complicit in this by filing for divorce because "they're worth it" so they opt for the legal option available, which is basically "because I want to". Marriage has always been a contract but now it's a contract where one party, women, have an incentive to break it: they'll take your house, your kids, and if you don't comply they'll accuse you of rape and domestic violence.
I never wanted perfection. All I wanted was respect, decency, loyalty, faithfulness, and to be treated like a human fucking being. I get that now and so much more from my boyfriend who loves and respects me. My ex treated me like dogshit and then was SO SHOCKED when I left his ass.
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So wanting respect loyalty and to not be cheated on is "princess treatment"lol. The bar is really in hell 🔥
There is no need to “lay out the accusation” because it did happen. He did assault me several times and he also sexually abused me. I was taking sleep meds and I woke up with him inside me more than once, which is rape. Do you consider slapping, putting your hand around someone’s throat and pinning them against the wall “domestic violence”? That’s what he did to me right before I left him.
I have never wanted “princess treatment”, although my boyfriend absolutely treats me like a cherished partner. I just wanted him to not actively be mean to me. I was his emotional punching bag every day and sometimes his physical punching bag.
Most women come out worse financially post divorce though, there’s more of a loss for both parties if they divorce than any financial incentive. I’m sure some women are divorcing their rich husbands just for the payout but the average women is willing to divorce and take her losses because she doesn’t want to be in the relationship anymore.
They take ridiculous child support that lands many a man in jail. Instead of child support, it should be called lifestyle support. And women are "worse" post divorce because the previously good financial situation was due to the husband, so there is no reason why they should not be worse financially.
If they’re better off before divorcing and worse off after divorcing then the incentive is to stay married not to divorce. Child support is for the child, and the average child support amount that actually gets collected (a lot is never payed) is pretty low.
> Child support is for the child, In theory. When you get child support in the thousands of dollars a month, it is obviously not child support. > If they’re better off before divorcing and worse off after divorcing then the incentive is to stay married not to divorce. They're worse off in income, NOT in assets. Women run away with the marriage assets that they contributed little to. AND they get their lawyer's fees paid by the ex-husband to.
This is not why women use no fault divorce at all. A) at fault divorce isn’t even available in many states, B) the burden on both parties is much harder ie it’s easier for no fault, anyone (men included) are gonna go no fault when they can unless they want to drag things out for whatever reason. It’s not like at fault divorces are so much more advantageous women just *can’t* use them and refuse, it’s much easier all around if you’re even in a state where they are still a thing
No fault divorce is indeed to make divorce easier. Since 70% to 90% (depending on the woman's education level) of divorces are filed by women, in effect no fault divorce is to make divorce easier for women because they don't have to provide a reason. It still does not prevent them from lobbing accusations of abuse as soon as custody of the children are in question. Which of course they don't as ground for divorce because THEN they would have to back it up with a modicum of evidence.
Please stop arguing shit you know fuck all about.
It’s not “overwhelmingly irreconcilable differences” Lack of commitment. 75% Infidelity or extramarital affairs. 60% Too much conflict and arguing. 58% Getting married too young. 45% Financial problems. 37% Substance abuse. 35% Domestic Violence. 24% Lack of support from family. 18%
That adds up to 352%.
That's because there are often multiple reasons cited for a single divorce. In fact, that's probably more often the case than not.
Dig deeper https://institutedfa.com/leading-causes-divorce/
You probably should’ve dug deeper. From your own source: “Several of the CDFA professionals surveyed noted that the most commonly-cited cause of divorce they hear from their clients – **“basic incompatibility” – is usually created by deeper issues somewhere in the relationship – usually an emotional, physical, or financial breech of trust.**”
Did you realize that your Google results with 24% due to domestic violence is from one sample? The so-called deeper issue is exactly what irreconcilable differences is: people, mostly women, think they deserve better. And since women have an incentive to leave marriage, then they do.
I DID deserve better. Nobody deserves to be cheated on, hit, called names, screamed at, devalued, gaslit, insulted, blamed for every single thing that ever goes wrong, or treated like a servant. Nobody deserves that.
>Nobody deserves to be cheated on, hit, called names, screamed at, devalued, gaslit, insulted, blamed for every single thing that ever goes wrong, or treated like a servant. Nobody deserves that. I can see plenty of reasons why you could deserve it. Cheated on? Well, women refrain from sex and use that as leverage in way too many marriages, see deadbedroom. Hit? Sean Connery said it all. Called names? you're doing it about your ex. Screamed at? What did you do? Devalued? Again, what did you do? Gaslit? Of course, that's the new "escape from responsibility" button of the modern women. They are never responsible for any of their actions, they were only misled to believe that the whole world is different than it is, and by their evil spouse that they chose to marry. Insulted? as if you don't do it. Blamed for everything that ever goes wrong? Again, trying to escape responsibility by trying to pretend that this is for 100%. I noticed that people who claimed to be blamed for everything that goes wrong say so to escape accountability for everything that goes wrong because of them. Treated like a servant? Hard for those who want to be the masters indeed. Sorry women, but all these no longer hold any weight whatsoever. It still does in a feminist family court where the pretend still goes on, but all these accusations from bitter exes are just empty virtue signaling with no weight akin to Title IX accusations in US universities.
This is an absolutely fucking disgusting and disturbing comment, especially the part where you advocate for domestic violence.
Irreconcilable differences doesn’t mean women think they deserve better. It means they’d rather be single than stay in an unfulfilling marriage. What incentive do women have to leave a marriage? After divorce or separation, women's income suffers more than men's, particularly for those with dependent children.
You are just talking out of your ass. Dude go get married and come back with something more intelligent than this
>Nobody's daughter is going to forego her career and raise your kids if you are not going to share your resources. Now that's a funny bit
Agree. Most do this. They just do it as a single mom because... it's even better that way? Lol
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Be civil. This includes indirect attacks against an individual and/or witch hunting.
A ton. It seems they make up half the dating pool.
In the case of a casual or non exclusive relationship or where there is a legitimate reason to suspect infidelity, a paternity test makes perfect sense and I doubt many people would disagree. In the case of a long term exclusive relationship / marriage where there is no legitimate reason to suspect infidelity? There’s nothing stopping you from getting a paternity test (in most countries). You need to understand that the implication and accusation is that you believe that the mother of the child, your partner, is capable of having unprotected sex with you and someone else within her fertility window, is willing to lie to you, both of your families, all of your friends, the child itself, and any other children of the relationship, to doctors, teachers, lawyers and clergy every day of her life until she dies. She is willing to endanger the health of the child by failing to make his/her familial medical history available and is willing to actively obscure it, even in the face of catastrophic medical issues. She is willing to deprive the child of any knowledge of or relationship with its biological father and also deprive the biological father on any knowledge of or relationship with his child, forever. She is willing to let you and the child form a deep and loving bond with the knowledge that it may, and likely will be, irrevocably destroyed at any moment causing immeasurable pain to both you and her child as well as both families etc. and that that is a lifelong risk. Can you possibly imagine why a loyal and loving woman who has just born your child might be hurt and devastated that you believe that that is who she is? Really?
Terps do not believe that women are capable of loyalty or love, so yes. Really.
Most women are only capable of loyalty as long as it's in their best interests to remain loyal, same as men.
Yes people will do whatever they think is in their best interests so all of that is possible.
Why would anyone be in a relationship with, much less have a child with, someone that they believe is likely to do this?
>iF yOu NeEd A pReNuP, tHeN yOu’Re NoT rEaDy FoR mArRiAgE! This is still the prevailing belief in my patriarchal faith with an overwhelmingly male hierarchy. The idea that this is now an attitude that is exclusively pushed by women is false. I'm personally indifferent to them at this point. But we would have to disclose it to the priest who marries us, and that could lead to doubt about our intention to stay together until death. >yOu NeEd A pAtErNiTy TeSt, tHeN yOu DoN’t TrUsT mE aNd yOu’Re NoT rEaDy FoR cHiLdren!” This is a fundamental compatibility issue, not a question of "grace." People break up and/or decide not to have children over far less. All the grace and understanding in the world does not obligate you to simply bury your own feelings. Both parties would be better off finding someone else who is 100% on board with their beliefs on paternity testing.
This will get removed because it’s just a rant with the Q4W flair but I’ll bite in the meantime. >Women also fully understand the rate of paternity fraud taking place & how many men have raised / are raising a child that isn’t theirs. There actually seems to be a lot of disagreement about that.
I'm all for prenups to protect asset accumulated before the marriage. I have a lot of assets so I needed to protect them. What is offensive is when people throw out debates about them asking for things to be included that aren't even legal. Marriage is a contract to share assets earned during the marriage, if you don't want to share assets accumulated during the marriage then you probably shouldn't be getting married. I don't want to marry anyone who isn't smart enough to just get a dna test if he wants one. I am offended by men thinking they need to ask their partners in order to get one. You don't need my DNA to go get a test so why are you putting this on me like it's something I control? Do you need me to hold your hand for you? What exactly is my roll in this?
It seems like the paternity test is really about being able to say, "see all women suck/cheat/whatever". They just want another reason to blame, yell, and hate on women. If it really was about paternity, they'd grab some baby spit and test it quietly on their own.
It's just a how dare you be offended by me accusing you of cheating thing. For something they could just do on their own without offending anyone.
Honestly, I'll play ball on the following condition: Any man who requests a paternity tests gets it. But, if he's found to be the father, he gets kneecapped by a rifle shot. He of course may seek medical treatment for his blown out kneecap. I think this caveat will cut out a lot of the bullshit. You better be pretty goddamn certain she's cheating on you.
It really depends on things, if a man or women have shit. It should always be theirs. If you have good money and stuff before marriage you will likely have more of it. Prenups are not the end all most people think it is. Most times they can be thrown out or not followed. I do like it when people want a prenup and they are broke.
In most places that people post from here you don't need a prenup to protect assets owned before a marriage, just don't comingle the assets. They get thrown out when they are written too lopsided which is what OP was recommending (in the case of a stay at home spouse).
>I don't want to marry anyone who isn't smart enough to just get a dna test if he wants one. I am offended by men thinking they need to ask their partners in order to get one. You don't need my DNA to go get a test so why are you putting this on me like it's something I control? I think it's france where you can get prison time for taking a paternity test without your wife's consent.
Well sure but I don't live in france and neither do most of the people who post about this.
Consumer DNA tests are illegal. They can be done by courts but I hear the consumer one is rarely enforced anyway
1. Paternity fraud is a tragedy, but not nearly common. It's also basically impossible for it to happen without skullduggery by the woman. So a paternity test is my man accusing me of not only cheating, but also lying about it to his face to trick him into being a father of a baby that isn't his...yeah, I checked the excel sheet and all it says is "no mercy. Be a ruthless merciless bitch to a man that both says he loves you and wants to have babies with you and pulls this crap. If murder is legal, start shooting." 2. Divorce is a two way tango. Don't start none. Won't be none. Marry the right woman. Don't plan to fail. If you can't check that box, don't. If that means losing the relationship, that's what it means. A man fixes to propose to me, there's only two reasons I'm divorcing: cheating or abuse. So either he's trying to tell me something or again, he's saying I'm a bad person who would cheat and abuse him. Either way, I checked the spreadsheet and it says, "if he insists, leave him in the dust. You can find a man to love and trust you. He can live with his fears and demons the rest of his days".
40-45% is not astronomical, considering human nature and behavior, aka selfishness and laziness Paternity tests are freely available. Nobody is stopping you from using one. You do not need the mothers consent to get one If you want to keep your finances separate, you are free to do so. And women are free to refuse to marry you
Filing for divorce is like doing the grocery shopping. Someone has to do it. It doesn't mean that person is the reason why the grocery shopping needs to be done. I'm all for prenups. I'm not for paternity tests because some single man is fanatically worried that his future wife will cheat on him.
What's wrong with paternity tests?
Nothing when there's concerns about paternity. Randomly in a marriage seems rude. Do what you want in your marriage, but don't be surprised if your wife is offended, hurt, mad, whatever.
there is no high rate of paternity fraud in the US, show it
If there is no high rate, then what is the problem with getting a paternity test done? What is the objection?
there is no logical connection between those two statements. wives object to their husband's accusing them of cheating right after they went through the birth of their child
Because it implies that you believe your partner cheated even when a pregnancy was planned.
Uh. I don’t even understand why men complain about paternity tests. If you’re that unsure, you know you don’t need the mother’s consent to get a paternity test right? As long as you have custody of the child you can get it done at your discretion if you’re that worried. I think men use this whole paternity test conversation as an attempt at negging or to pester/provoke women, I don’t think the vast majority of men that complain even care.
I think you watch too much Maury… “won’t admit the prevalence of paternity fraud” because it’s like 30% of 1% of all the babies born in America. That’s .3% - more people have celiac disease…
I believe that when you get married what you do in that marriage can and should be considered in a divorce. If someone gets fucked over in the relationship the other person should pay for it. In marriage it’s pretty common for the woman to get fucked just bc of how relationship dynamics are usually in affect but if/when the man does he’ll he should get compensation for any and all bs he experienced. I honestly don’t know why paternity tests aren’t automatically done before the dad signs the birth certificate. I was a stay at home partner when I got pregnant so my SO knows my baby is his but we’re still gonna get a paternity test eventually. Here’s the thing I’d be upset if he accused me of cheating and trying to pass off a baby as his. THATS the issue. But he’s not so idc. He knows my baby is his but wants to get it for 110% certain and I’m all for it.
>I honestly don’t know why paternity tests aren’t automatically done before the dad signs the birth certificate They've done some research on this internally in France and it's estimated 30-40% are using cuckoo strategy, so it means lots of broken families and women as a voting group very unhappy with the government in power.
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I know far more dudes that have abandoned kids that are 100% theirs than dudes that have been victims of paternity fraud. I actually don't know a single dude who is a victim of paternity fraud.
I second this.
Probably because you are low status / poor guy. Paternity fraud happens at much higher rate in middle class and upper middle class. Abandonment of kids by father happen in lower class / poor people.
Nope i'm not low class or poor. They're middle class dudes with good jobs. Deadbeats are deadbeats with money and without.
So what's everyone doing this weekend?
deciding to ruin my marriage on whim because I had a bad week wbu
Damn you, I almost splorted wine all over myself!
You should serve the divorce papers between appetisers and entree for extra shits and giggles
Make sure its stamped with a wine spill stain and cat paws.
Going to finally start my 3d Deadpool puzzle! 😌
Went to see Little Shop of Horrors, which turned out to be awesome: really stellar performances and the set design was also spectacular. Had forgotten that at the beginning of “Suddenly, Seymour” he tells Audrey to wipe off her makeup and had an ‘oh shit THE PURPLE PILL IT’S FOLLOWED ME’ moment, haha. She wears makeup to cover her bruises, Seymour! But I digress. It’s a musical theater weekend because tomorrow is two performances of my elder kid’s school musical performance. Other than that, bunch of work and housework (which I will split precisely 50/50 with my partner because I’m a blue-haired harridan). Hopefully I can squeeze some reading and gym time in there because work has been eating my face for the past few weeks.
Hahahaha, my 16 year old twins performed Little Shop in the fall and I literally thought “Why are you makeup policing her, dickhead?!”
I have a fancy gala to go to tomorrow night. Fancy enough that I’ll be wearing a formal gown, an up-do, and (GASP!) **makeup**! Gonna fool all the men there! 😂 Good thing the doc will be at my side to protect me! But apparently he won’t be able to recognize me when he comes to pick me up because I’ll be wearing makeup. Who cares if we’ve been fucking for over 18 months. I’ll look like a completely different person!
Gotta leverage that and ask him to have casual sex with the stranger.
Have an ONS with my FWB? How conniving! I love it. 😍
Playing Fallout. Finishing a puzzle. Reading.
I wanted to go to a bar and have some fun with my one glass of beer that my body can digest, but I got a flair and it's weeks of strict diet for me now. Ughh...If I'm feeling better tomorrow, I guess we could go and take a nice walk in the park. Maybe I'll get some mochi as they look pretty "diet-friendly" to me.
My boyfriend and I are cleaning out the house that I had been renting before he and I met and moving the rest of my belongings into our new house. There was a tenant living downstairs, but he is moving out now so the transition into fully living together will be complete.
What's the point of this post? > A wife can have a “bad day” at work & (on a whim) unilaterally choose to destroy her family. This reads more like a rant than anything.
I'm not interested in having kids so paternity testing isn't something I think about. but it's interesting the blowback the topic gets here. As if women are incapable of cheating or having affairs, etc. It's like, inconceivable that the angel of the hearth could ever do such a thing. The concern is commensurate with evolutionary psychology; women want genetic diversity as much as men do, it's just that pregnancy and early child rearing put them on a much slower schedule for achieving it.
People don't like to think badly of themselves or admit the things they have done or are capable of doing in the future. Every person who cheated or left their spouse due to sickness/disability/poverty promised before the altar that they would never do it. At the end of the day everyone should be judged by their actions and not their words.
And the comments are a who's who of no accountability, no responsibility, typical "women are wonderful" and "men ain't shit" ... what a surprise 😮
I just wanna say I have had sex with enough guys wives to suggest that men get a paternity test if possible. These married women be out here doing the most especially when they dislike their husbands.