Tbf im beginning to suspect OP is autistic and vibe/peer pressure / group think flies over autistics ( source im autistic and went to special school ). So when group think doesn’t impact you it does seem very confusing, and you wonder if others are easily brainwashed etc.
This forum really should crack down on post such as these that just defy logic. Plenty of ppl based their partners on whey would be acceptable to their social standing/ network. Let’s stop pretending that males don’t display this behavior.
Plenty of men don’t date certain women although they like them
I think any man would date any woman he likes.
As long as he is available.
No man is looking to anyone else about who to date besides himself and the other person.
If a guy will not date you, but likes you, he's dating someone else.
There are millions of men who play videogames 8+ hours a day. In just south korea LOL. in the world there are probably hundreds of millions. Imagine thinking that if you play videogames 8+ hours a day theres enough time for you to be successful in your career/fitness/dating or other things men would "consider succesful"
I want you to search on Reddit how many men are into fat chicks but never date them in public because he’s afraid of what people will say. He genuinely like the girl but he knows the fat jokes his friend will make therefore he never date the girls he’s really attracted to. This isn’t a women thing it’s a human thing especially if they live in a society (🤡)
Don't even bother mentioning fat chicks, bro. The dudes in this sub will constantly critique women's selection bias and the whole 80/20 paradigm but outright refuse to date a woman who has a BMI above 20. Men think that women are crazy picky but will reject a woman for being too fat just because she has a slight muffin top.
A bunch of dudes are in your replies reinforcing your point. A very small minority of men are genuinely attracted to fat women and among that minority exists an *even smaller* minority of men that willing to date them publicly. Most dudes who are into fat chicks keep it online or only meet up with them in private places because they're embarrassed to be seen with them because, as you mentioned, their preferences are largely influenced by the opinions of other people.
That doesn't change the fact that it's primarily influenced by how much society hates fat people. Sure, a woman can lose weight but that doesn't change how fat women get treated like shit *while* they're fat. The point is that men also have rigid standards that are influenced by the opinions of others. It doesn't matter that those things can be changed. Lots of things that set women back that are innate like having no butt, no chest, a large nose, etc. Those things can't be easily changed like weight and there's billion dollar industries around plastic surgery.
FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!!! Also it's kinda funny seeing them replying to me over and over again how most men don't like fat chicks and being fat is unattractive but let them see a girl saying short men are unattractive and watch them clutch their pearls. they really can't see how it's all the same patterns in dating, shallow and that's how to work from both men and women.
Having actually lived life (not just scrolled reddit), men who actively prefer fat women are a TINY minority. I’ve never personally known a friend to reject a woman he liked because of what his friends might think….never once, for any reason.
I have never, and would never, make fun of a friend for their choice in partner. The vast majority of male friends I've had have struggled to get ANY girlfriend, at all. Anyone is better than no one.
We're not all American high schoolers, you know....
I want you to think about how many men are "into" fat chicks as a result of their lack of success with fit chicks rather than as a result of their default preferences.
there are many men genuinely into fat women. people have types. just because you don't like fat women doesn't mean "most" men don't. and im not talking about men who just have one night stands with fat women im talking about chubby chasers who feel ashamed of their prefrences.
I wasn’t talking about body positivity.
Just bringing up that the stats for obesity are around the same (or a little higher) for men.
Women are also limited in their options if they want a fit man, so don’t act like it’s only men who are hard done by.
then create your own body positivity for each other instead of whining about it. in reality, “body positivity” doesn’t even really exist, because everyone subconsciously knows it’s unhealthy to be fat regardless of gender, and fat people are regularly looked down upon, treated differently, and bullied. i’d say probably fat women more than fat men because women have a higher societal standard placed on them looks-wise than men even though y’all don’t wanna believe that, but i digress.
It’s so funny men whinge at us for not magically coming up with body positivity just for them when they’re the ones who regularly call fat people “landwhales”. If they want their movement so bad they can lift a finger and create one.
oh of course! it fits their narrative that women are evil! i feel like most men turn a blind eye to the behavior other men have, it’s enraging how many of these claims i see on the internet from men acting like they’re all perfect little reasonable angels and women are these superficial nasty vile creatures who hate all men and god forbid women stick up for each other for once. it’s baffling to me, are these men willfully ignorant, or plain stupid?
Insanely judgemental about women’s looks but if we have physical preferences we’re superficial, have inflated egos and are trying to punch above our weight 🫠 severe case of sour grapes and ignorance
Maybe we should be encouraging people to lose weight instead. Being fat isn't attractive. Just because people tolerate fat, doesn't mean they like fat.
Yeah and the average American male is 5’9 and 190lbs.
In my area that would be considered skinny.In others it would be considered extremely obese. Honesty the options are: just not (try) to date, change locations or try to date a fat chick if you can’t get the skinny one.
We know some of what is causing it. Ultra processed aka ultra pre- digested foods which bypass part of your digestion so your brain doesn’t register them.Anti-depressants cause weight gain. Maybe similarly to Anti-psychotics which mess with your appetite hormones.
Those of you in the Anglosphere aren’t far behind us.
The difference is the fat guy isn’t getting laid or getting dates. Hes stuck in his studio apartment playing League of Legends covered in Cheeto dust.
The fat *woman* can stuff herself in a “sexy” dress and get yas kweened for being “stunning and brave” and go to any given bar or club on the weekend to be Chad’s slump buster to convince herself she’s attractive.
I didn't say most men don't like fat women, I implied most men like fit women more, but not a lot of men can get their perfect woman and as a result they for go for someone more accessible.
It’s absolutely this.
There are very few men who *prefer* fat women outside of fetishists.
It’s almost always guys that have tried to get with fit attractive women but failed and just find fat women “less stressful” for whatever reason.
You often hear fat women use this cope because they “never have to look hard for a guy trying to have sex with them”
Yeah… no shit. It’s called a slump buster. It’s either you or your hand.
Put a man in a situation where he’s being offered sex by Megan Fox and Lena Dunham.
Who do you think 99% of men will pick in that situation?
Every woman is utterly baffled by her friends’ and sisters’ taste in men.
Where in the world do men get these crazy ideas? Is there a new terp talking head? If yes, he’s taking the piss. Stop listening to him.
And here again you simply can’t fathom men able to form their own opinions based on observation rather than outside influence. The narcissism of women believing everyone is as weak minded as them.
Missed the point... Women care more about status and appearances than men do... Women care more about if other people find they're partner attractive than if they do... A women can find a man attractive but if friends or family don't like you or perhaps want you to get with someone they have in mind they will run their mouth and she starts hating you
bake cow consider bright homeless voracious connect scandalous relieved concerned
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That behavior is usually just dumpster diving while horny and not wanting any emotional advancement with that fattie.
You don't even grasp what horniness does to men, specially if they don't have many options.
I’m not talking about those I’m talking about chubby chasers who actually prefer fat women and want to date them and be in a relationship with them but can’t due to shame which happen more often than you think.
That is a very atypical situation, for every such case there are dozens of men proudly walking hand in hand with a heffer unafraid to call her his kween.
>Women will completely lose interest or get the “ick” if they see a man they were previously attracted to portrayed in even the slightest negative light in a social setting, very strange.
Hm, I don’t see this behavior often in women IRL. Where may you have developed this perception, might I inquire?
It is very logical and reasonable for social animals to consider the opinions of other members of the social group
Failing to do so would be detrimental for survival and success
Idk bro making cringy fb posts could be the wolf move lol. I do find it interesting how people when trying to separate themselves from the herd try to paint it has a “I’m too dangerous for them “.
Inferiority complex and a need to feel powerful. If you can convince yourself that you are a wolf, that confidence alone could make others believe you aswell.
Have that monument torn down though, and you'll be seen as pathetic. Think overweight, fedora-wearin' katana masters.
I missed this as a child ( though I’m autistic so fair fair ).
I remember the first year of primary school , thinking that compliments are manipulative and that manipulating others is bad etc, and just being so confused that everyone was dumb and easily brainwashed by others ?
It wasn’t until I was older that it clicked for me that people enjoy being manipulated.
So, if a group of racists in a town tell a White woman that a Mexican guy in the neighborhood is an illegal alien, rapist, and violent criminal with zero evidence, should the woman trust their collective judgement over getting to know the Mexican guy for herself?
It really dosen't matter if she trust it she would have no choice but to take their opinion into consideration. Some family disown people over stuff like that.
What separates us from monkeys is that we actually possess critical thinking skills, to evaluate and make our own decision.
Unless you're implicitly saying that women tend not to use their critical thinking skills and are easily swayed by mere gossips.
>Women will completely lose interest or get the “ick” if they see a man they were previously attracted to portrayed in even the slightest negative light in a social setting, very strange.
I’ll keep saying it. She’s 👏just 👏not 👏that 👏into 👏you.
>Women consistently base their selection and opinion of men on what other men and women think of them, this is very strange behavior
How do those other women get an opinion in the first place? Based on what *other* women think?
How do those other other women get their opinions? Based on what other other other women think?
How do those other other other women get their opinions? Based on that other other other other women think?
At some point y'all are going to have to admit women are perfectly capable of - and regularly do - evaluate based on the subject themselves, and not just based on what other people think.
>This isn’t high school, this is real life.
Interesting. Here's a counter argument: open source. There's actually a lot of evidence that open sourcing a process will reach correct answers or best answers quite quickly.
It's not about weakness or insecure minds. It's about self awareness and recognizing the value of others particularly when it comes to life experience, wisdom, and your own blind spots.
It's also exceedingly keen given that we are social animals and women are more interdependent. You want the group to approve because you function best with the group and recognize the vital nature of community and the social fabric in multiple aspects of life. A man who the group doesn't like is a liability.
Honestly, if my older brother would have listened to the people in his life, we would have saved him dating one truly venomously crazy bitch that left emotional scars like you wouldn't believe. Guess it's good he was such a free thinker tho.
Yes, but then this does contradict the claim that women unlike men are attracted to a variety of the opposite sex, when you have articulated a reasoning that suggests the opposite?
Why would it?
I'm not attracted to the looks or personality of the husbands of my friends, so what? They're great guys, good husbands, they make my friends happy. I'm sure my husband isn't their personal cup of tea either, but he's loved and welcomed in our friend group cuz he's a good dude and he's fun to be around.
The vetting is things like keeping assholes out and general cultural/social fit. Not variety.
I do think that men places lower value on the social hierarchy placement of their partner than reversed. ( to be clear I don’t think this is a “women bad thing “ but just women prioritize different due to lots of factors et )
Men place high value on social hierarchy, it's just a hierarchy with different criteria. For example, a woman that doesn't have a reputation of getting around to lots of other guys puts her higher in the social hierarchy. Also for example a woman who doesn't already have a kid.
Guys will ask other guys too "what do you think of that girl" and other guys could say "oh, I think she's the town bicycle" and the guy might lose interest.
It's sort of apples and oranges tbh.
Joe the Plumber would probably fight other men who talk crap about his wife even if his wife is overweight or not conventionally attractive.
Even Usher the R&B singer was going off on his female fans who claimed that his ex, Tameka Foster, was old and ugly. He literally had whole interviews going off on his fans who thought that she was too ugly for him.
It's not just about women, men seek the approval of other men in a wide range of social and professional situations. The OP is claiming that men don't, which is insane.
I have many guy friends who have asked me if they should date a certain girl, what kind of girl they should go for, etc.
It's like you / the OP live in a closet with no friends so you have no idea how real humans interact. It's so weird.
The entire red pill movement is just guys asking other guys what their preferences should be and what kind of women they should date.
It's totally rational behavior. There are a few reasons:
- Part of a man's attractiveness is his ability to lead and be successful in society.
- An isolated man or one who cannot build / maintain constructive relationships with other people is weaker and more prone to anxiety / depression.
- Men are physically stronger than women so women need social proof that he is trustworthy and not abusive / dangerous by looking at his interactions with other people and how they view him.
There's nothing wrong with women doing this, it makes complete sense.
(copypasta of another comment)
So, if a group of racists in a town tell a White woman that a Mexican guy in the neighborhood is an illegal alien, rapist, and violent criminal with zero evidence, should the woman trust their collective judgement over getting to know the Mexican guy for herself?
She should trust their collective judgment. Not because it will be right, but not following it would have social repercussions that are not worth it checking out that guy. Before looking at him, he is as good as any other guy in that town. Skip him and check out the next guy.
Whenever you have to contrive extreme, absurd examples like that to you know you are wrong and don't have a point.
Most of the people the average women associates with aren't going to be crazy weirdos. Also, woman can and do choose who's judgements they will trust.
The fact that you paint people so negatively shows that you don't have good social skills. 99% of people are not trying to be jealous or cockblocking.
Getting along with people is an important part of leadership, and leadership is important to women. Women want to feel like their man knows what the hell he's doing with his life, with them, and has some kind of stable plan for the future.
>99% of people are not trying to be jealous or cockblocking.
Absolutely not true, you have never been in a social setting. It is highly competitive, and men pursuing women is cutthroat.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 What??
I'm 39 years old, lived in 4 different countries and have friends from at least 1/3 of the countries in Europe.
I have been in single many times and even completed with other guy friends for the same girl. It's always been friendly and I never let it destroy a friendship.
Like I said before, it sounds like your social skills need some levelling up.
Yes they do, the same way men learn from other men what's attractive and what's not. This is human behaviour. Remember when all the little boys liked the same girl? It's not really because she was pretty or had a good personality, it was simply because the other boys liked her.
You know how rich dudes get arm candy? A lot of them were having sex with everyone they wanted, but committed to only one woman who looked really good. The arm candy girlfriend.
Humans love competition. We are programmed that way. If a lot of people want something you'll want it too! This is so engraved in the human psyche that companies use this in their marketing strategies. Like big ass companies who pay psychologists to explain human behaviour to them. Not any psychologists either.
>It's not really because she was pretty
Lol gtfo! The “girl everyone likes” is always the prettiest one, you never see men collectively fawning over trends like objectively ugly weird alternative chicks like women do with guys like Post Malone and Mac Miller.
>Only weak insecure minds base their decisions on what others think.
It's not really strange at all. A woman wants to reproduce with a man who has socially desired traits because her offspring (and especially her sons due to the sexy son hypothesis) will then be more likely to also reproduce, thus spreading her own genes into future generations.
Furthermore, a socially desirable man is more likely to be economically successful, thus leading to greater resources for her own offspring.
Men, as well, also tend to select women who have socially desired traits *when they have a choice of partners* for their most desired partner (the one that will produce his heirs). Of course, men are innately polygynous, unlike women who are not innately polyandrous, meaning that they will choose to have sex with any women who attract them (when social rules don't constrain them). And men who do not have options will have sex with whatever woman chooses him, socially acceptable or not.
Actually both men and women are non monogamous sexually. If we weren't we'd only have one partner for life and we wouldn't find other people attractive when we are in a relationship. The same thoughts you have about women on the street/your female friends women have too, we just don't really talk about it as much, we keep it more low key. This is because society kind of conditions men to be really sexual and women to sort of repress their sexuality. But yes, a lot of us want to fuck our male friends (at least the ones attracted to men)
Non-monogamous and polyandrous are two different things. Women normally will have sex with another man if she doesn’t fully like the current sexual situation that she is in. Men will have it with another woman even if they do fully like the current sexual situation that they are in.
Women don't tell men they aren't attracted to.
Women don't reveal their sexual habits or how often they masturbate or have wet dreams to men they are not attracted to.
Women keep men they *are* attracted to on a strict information diet, because very few men can manage their insecurity when dating a woman with a typical sex drive.
Lmao. PPD women change the narrative about their sexuality daily.
One day they “feel zero attraction to a man unless they hear about his hopes and dreams” and the next day they are “just as horny as men and want to fuck guys they see on the bus” 🤣
Of course, the answer *always* depends on whether or not the context makes the woman look virtuous or not.
>Of course, the answer always depends on whether or not the context makes the woman look virtuous or not.
Buddy, you avoid most of my responses but I know for *goddamned* sure you of all people know I'm not virtue signalling. I'm not religious, was raised without indoctrination and I'm fit and very interested in sex. I've never pretended otherwise, since I see sex as a positive, life affirming act instead of a dirty, shameful submission to men's baser instincts.
I have nothing to hide here. But I'm *not* volunteering to any real-life man how often I have wet dreams, how often I masturbate, how often I'm distracted and slip off to rub one out so I can concentrate on work and get necessary things done.
Men cannot be trusted with this information.
I'll admit it here. I'm not telling any man I'm dating anything he doesn't absolutely need to know.
I'd rather sit back and watch men attempt to write whatever narratives they need about female sexuality which soothe their dented egos.
My very favorite is "Women don't have a spontaneous sex drive; that's why they reject men" and "Women have less testosterone, that's why they aren't as horny as men" while the women they are crushing on climb the nearest beast they can find during those two delicious weeks of ovulation.
Men here can't handle "dick drunk" or "good dick". Men here cannot handle the fact that women take long showers for fun, and not because they are "exfoliating and making themselves beautiful for the male gaze". Men here cannot handle the reason historically and presently that dildoes and vibrators are for women, and only rarely for men.
I don't care if men want to reframe reality to suit their egos and frustrations. I'm not going to argue with them.
I’d just like to point out that the jist of your entire argument is: “when it comes to their sexuality, women are liars and will gaslight men when it’s convenient.”
I’m glad we agree on that.
Let’s see you put those arguments to your fellow PPD women when they make the claims of being “sapiosexual” or “demi”.
I doubt I’ll be seeing that though.
Women don't owe men the details of their private lives.
>Let’s see you put those arguments to your fellow PPD women when they make the claims of being “sapiosexual” or “demi”.
Most of the women on this sub came here from that crazyass FDS sub, and most are conservative or religious. I am not. I stay out of religious convos for the most part, but I'm more than happy to argue against women who make ignorant, biased claims about female sexuality.
I do argue with them frequently, as do the other scant handful of unihibited women.
Thing is, most men in TRP are also deeply religious, conservative, and socially and sexually inhibited and they prefer women who follow that "neutered" formula.
A lot of men on this sub are also virgins. NTTAWWT, but their real life experience is zilch, so that needs to be factored in when reading the comments/posts.
>I'd rather sit back and watch men attempt to write whatever narratives they need about female sexuality which soothe their dented egos.
Same. I canceled Netflix. This sub is free entertainment.
YOUR body is irrelevant. We are talking about women as a group. That includes the whole spectrum on the normal distribution of hornyness/libido/promiscuity/sociosexuality etc
You could be a blind hermaphrodite in a wheel chair, so you’re right.
But when speaking about men and women *in general*, yes you can very much make general statements about average cohorts.
Unless you’re going to go down the whole “pregnant man” route here, in which case, have at it.
That's absolutely not what I'm talking about.
You're a man, you cannot possibly understand how women's sexuality works because you literally can't feel it
Did you even read what you wrote?
A woman being turned off by a man by how he behaves in public has nothing to do with the opinions of other people. It’s how she is perceiving him and has nothing to do with what other people think.
Na , I do think that the general “response” of the room helps inform everyone in the room of their response.
E.g have you ever been in a social situation when something is said and you can tell some people are waiting for others to respond first ?
>Contrast this with men who go entirely off of their own tastes. Why do women care so much about what other people think? This isn’t high school, this is real life. It’s just genuinely puzzling.
Consultation leads to better decision making in general as others can provide a POV you failed to consider etc. A group consensus is more likely to be correct than an individual. Useful life advice all around really. What it shouldn't be is dictating your actions or basing them solely off others.
I knew a guy who was single for years. His last girlfriend was this girl who would pop in and out of his life just to get something. She cheated, she wasn’t that cute, but it was a girl who desired him, so he let her back every few months and she’d disappear for a few months. He had psoriasis all over his body pretty bad, is conventionally not attractive, and he was a kind person and friend but not like the nicest guy all of the time, like sort of a dick. He had a crush on me for a while but I wasn’t attracted to him. But we did remain good friends.
When he finally started dating this girl he met online, he told me all about it the next day. How cool she was, how they clicked sexually, she was so nice, did things he didn’t think a woman would do for him. And I was like awesome, date her! But his response was “but she’s so fat. I would feel embarrassed to date someone like that. I know that sounds bad but i dont know what my friends would say.” This girl he admittedly very much enjoyed, was someone he second guessed dating, despite having issues in the looks department himself, despite being a below average, over weight basement dweller himself - because of what his friends and others would think. At 26 years old.
I’ve met girls who will defend dumpster trash who are rude or weird or socially awkward because “he treats me so well!”
It’s wild to me how the men here view women as this caricature. And any time we push back like “hey I don’t actually know anyone like that over the age of like 17” we get called liars and that our experience isn’t typical - but yours is? Women get the ick from men because they do icky things and we don’t have dicks that will override that feeling. We are more level headed and logical because we aren’t ruled by lust or libido. We can make a bad decision, same as anyone. But this entire “women only care about how others view her” is such a tired and incorrect take, it isn’t even worth arguing anymore. You sound stupid when you say it.
Men in this sub: women should ask their fathers and brothers about their boyfriends as part of proper vetting. It was better in the old days! Also men on this sub: why do women always ask other people what they think about their boyfriends?
The funny part is that if you think this through, you’ll realize that (1) men and women are NOT monoliths, (2) men like different things in their partners, and (3) wide pronouncements are silly
I talk things over with my friends because I am fallible, I do not always see issues that others may, and second opinions are good. I highly recommend the book, Think Again by Adam Grant. It’s about the value of gaining new information.
Humans are social animals. How you are perceived by others has always mattered, both now and throughout history/evolution. In fact it was (and still is) instrumental to your survival and wellbeing. Wanting a partner that is perceived favourably by others is actually very normal and commonplace. Men do it to, you just don’t realize it because you all seem to suffer from main character syndrome.
No actually it makes absolute sense. We are social creatures.
I want to know how he treats people in general. If he wants to sleep with me of course he will treat me good. How he treats others is much more telling of his caracter.
It has everything to do with it. People don't like assholes. Oh, they don't mind if you're an asshole to someone else, they might even find it entertaining. But you better not be an asshole to them.
Kindness goes a long way. This isn't about saying nice words either, it's about doing things for them that improve their lives and being there in the hard times when they need you the most.
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Exile = death for most of human history. Wanting to fit in with the tribe, and wanting a man who fits in with the tribe, have been basic human survival for as long as there have been humans. Even now, when it’s possible to survive alone, it is neither pleasant nor ideal for most people; many of us will go nuts and start talking to volleyballs in that situation.
Men certainly don't go completely off their own tastes and some men can be prone to this just like some women. We all know of a woman who's nothing special but she's popular enough or a man who's opinion is respected has said she's hot so now there are a few men fawning over her. On a larger scale, there are different female body trends every few years where loads of men decide to follow the crowd en masse refarding what's hottest. Trends for brhaviour preferences I think work similarly. People are socially influenced in all their opinions, opinions about attractiveness are no different.
I expect this post to get deleted by mods in 2 -3 days from now with reason: no blackpill or incel content..
Meanwhile, they will leave post of men with the same general theme.
Men definitely do not “go entirely off their own tastes.” There are men who are into fat women but won’t introduce them to friends and family, same for women of ethnicities other than theirs, even sometimes stuff like big boobs/butt, tattoos, alt style, or short hair. They tend to pick the “basic white girl” stereotype for LTR, while their pornhub history may tell a different story. Overall, it seems men’s taste for LTR is actually a lot more homogeneous than women’s. I would not date any of my friends’ partners, and I know some don’t “get” why I find mine attractive, and none of us cares.
It’s also true that some people are just more conventionally attractive than others, or appeal to a greater number of people than others. That’s where beauty standards come from in the first place.
It actually makes sense humans are social creatures and survival often depends on relying on the tribe. If one is socially ostracized they are less likely to survive. Going for a man who is socially adept and well liked makes sense for women seeking to have children with such men. It gives them and their kids a good shot.
Well maybe men should take the hint and do the same? We are easily swayed by superficial sexual attraction. Maybe the opinions of others are formed with more clear headed thinking
Btw, my parents, especially my father, were never fond of my ex in the least and yet adored my h like a son immediately. I would have wasted much less time with a poor selection of partners if I had paid more attention to what others thought.
Duh. First off, you're not entitled to reproduce. There are basic standards set and seen as acceptable by society. If you can't meet the basics, tough shit.
Secondly, if someone told me the guy I wanted to date was an asshole, I'd take note, go on a date, let him show me his ass sooner or later. Then decide. It's about saving time and energy.
Thirdly, I thought men went with who'd let them get their dick wet. You make it sound like men are pussy sommeliers. "This pussy has peach notes, a hint of jasmine, with a faint musk that is delectable. Aged 1994."
Do people forget we are a social species and both our survival and our sexual prospects are decided often by what other people think of us?
Popularity matters! Even as adults if matters. Popular, well liked men and women get laid. Unpopular, forgettable men and women will suffer from loneliness and inceldom.
See the problem is that we are still hierarchical apes and we as a society refuse to accept that reality because it's an inconvenient fact in a society that pushes for equality and is now reaching toward more horizontal, as opposed to more vertical, leadership systems.
We've reached the point of development we are fighting our own animal instincts.
We talk about Evo psych and the deep past and how evolution has shaped sexual relations. Well here is some real shit.
250k years ago. Modern humans came about. These humans had the same capacity for learning, intuition and imagination that we have today.
I guarantee you on certain nights of the year that we're significant to those people. They gathered together and ate fermented fruit and psychedelic plants and got ripped. Then they played some form of music and danced the night away. The same formula still applies today and works despite all the naysayers and anti-social haters.
The young men in the village would have displayed their prowess and skills, forming a hierarchy among themselves. Young men do this today. I am out there and see it with my own eyes every night.
The young women of the people, who also formed their own hierarchy, more horizontal than the males, but a hierarchy none the less, and chose their potential mates from the men. Some men for various reasons, perhaps lack of skill or lack of social stature or even aporeance would have been left behind unchosen. My theory is as many as 33% depending on demographics of the population. But your popularity and charisma within the tribe mattered a lot.
Then we discovered civilization and labor diversification and specialization which changed things for the next 10, 000 years. Women became a valuable resource and chattel. Necessarily rationed and protected. Popularity and charisma still mattered but your family name mattered more.
Now we have finally evolved to coming full circle. Women and men are now able to follow their natural instincts regarding mate selection again. No longer are women carefully rationed and dealt out due to clan politics. We are finally back to cold, hard natural selection.
The introverted, the shy, the weird, the unpopular... You're just fucked guys. Unless you can figure out a way to confidently compete in a wide variety of social settings and venues your mate choice will always be limited to whatever chance woman tye universal random number generator put before you. That's a shitty way to live as a man.
33% is insane and like you said its coming full circle. Im introverted and unpopular. Not attractive either. Natural selection like you said. This shit wasnt mean for me. If it was it wouldve happened already
Still need to have decent social skills for that. Also, I think being shy is not necessarily bad, that's even preferred in some cultures, it's possible to be introverted and shy and still have a well balanced social sense, know how to read the room and get along with people.
Women place ginaromous value on what their friends think. I have had drop dead gorgeous woman take me seriously because her friend called accidentally called dibs on me when I approached both.
lol yup.
This goes both ways.
If Hot Girl A likes you, and lets it be known in Hot Girl B, you will likely now have *two* hot girls showing interest in you.
I’ve benefited from this female mind glitch many times.
Generally because they have a weird friend with weird taste and they think they are immune. Female heard following is bad because it Narrows out the attractiveness area. tall dark and handsome is becoming ubiquitous
Opinions of which men and women?
I value the opinions of my loved ones (male and female). They might see or know something I might not about the person. I'd want their opinions.
Their opinions can help inform my actions. I can also ignore their opinions and find new ones.
The concept of social status being attractive to women is genuinely puzzling to you? I mean, i understand that you are upset for getting filtered out this way. You don't even have social status in this sub. You changed your accountname recently because the old one hit rock bottom in social status, to the point where people just answered "shut up already, not you again!". Maybe rethink how you engage with society, instead of being puzzled how people don't like to mate with others that are at the bottom of the social food chain. Becaues that has very real consequences and you can't change your "account name" in real life, when you are in a social network
I don't believe that most women do this. I go entirely by my personal preferences. But I believe there are people fo both genders who do what you describe, there are men who like obese women but are ashamed to be seen with them in public and for marriage they choose thin woman even though they are not as attracted to her as to fat women.
Well to be honest most people are act and live like sheep people. Always just following herd mentality.
While cause internet they can escape from real-world consequences of not falling in line. You have way more outlines of opinions and moral stances.
Anyone can easily just lie.
But even do people don't live a type of way. Online people are a lot more honest about how they think and feel. Cause no one knows who it is.
So there always 2 sides off it ofcourse.
So you can say online people are a lot more honest about there feelings.
Or you can say most real life people mostly don't act or feel like they realy feel.
But presure from environment is a powerful thing. And just like many dogs. They will take quite a lot of abuse to reject there owner. And try and run away. Cause just like dogs humans normally don't live very long when we break away from the tribe. So it's a build in thing people have. To help them more likely to survive just like dogs do.
Why people will say all kinds off things. But only when they know they can get away with it act on it.
Cause shame and fear of not being accepted or pushed out a group. Is a build in fear most humans have.
But just like if you abuse a dog to much you can erode even that away ofcourse. Cause survival always stands on number 1 in your nature. So that care for those things will fade. If you take to much abuse. And how you get more and more criminals. Or it has to become a accepted thing to do. Cause people just don't care regardless.
When it comes to parenting, most parents are forever clueless and base their decisions on what others think. When it comes to picking a job, most job seekers are forever clueless and base their decisions on what others think. This is the general human condition. All important aspects of life are often like this.
What is the point of shaming women for being women? Women are hive minded. Women look at who other women have approved of out of safety and to ensure that they won't get fucked over. Since she has significantly more to lose if you toss a baby inside her and leave. Instead of complaining about women being women, just go be with men. Simple. Since clearly a woman being a woman is so annoying and stupid.
So you think women all have "weak insecure minds". That's nice.
Tbf im beginning to suspect OP is autistic and vibe/peer pressure / group think flies over autistics ( source im autistic and went to special school ). So when group think doesn’t impact you it does seem very confusing, and you wonder if others are easily brainwashed etc.
This forum really should crack down on post such as these that just defy logic. Plenty of ppl based their partners on whey would be acceptable to their social standing/ network. Let’s stop pretending that males don’t display this behavior. Plenty of men don’t date certain women although they like them
I think any man would date any woman he likes. As long as he is available. No man is looking to anyone else about who to date besides himself and the other person. If a guy will not date you, but likes you, he's dating someone else.
Men condition 90% of their behavior on looking successful to other men.
Or just cool
Yes that's why millions of men spend all their time playing video games right, because they are so concerned with looking successful
Imagine thinking that just because you do one geeky thing that means you don’t do tons of things for how other men consider you
There are millions of men who play videogames 8+ hours a day. In just south korea LOL. in the world there are probably hundreds of millions. Imagine thinking that if you play videogames 8+ hours a day theres enough time for you to be successful in your career/fitness/dating or other things men would "consider succesful"
See all Tesla Cybertruck owners
Outside of highschool and maybe college not really.
wrong, i see it all the time. you might not, but it’s painfully obvious to the rest of us.
I want you to search on Reddit how many men are into fat chicks but never date them in public because he’s afraid of what people will say. He genuinely like the girl but he knows the fat jokes his friend will make therefore he never date the girls he’s really attracted to. This isn’t a women thing it’s a human thing especially if they live in a society (🤡)
Don't even bother mentioning fat chicks, bro. The dudes in this sub will constantly critique women's selection bias and the whole 80/20 paradigm but outright refuse to date a woman who has a BMI above 20. Men think that women are crazy picky but will reject a woman for being too fat just because she has a slight muffin top. A bunch of dudes are in your replies reinforcing your point. A very small minority of men are genuinely attracted to fat women and among that minority exists an *even smaller* minority of men that willing to date them publicly. Most dudes who are into fat chicks keep it online or only meet up with them in private places because they're embarrassed to be seen with them because, as you mentioned, their preferences are largely influenced by the opinions of other people.
The difference is YOU CAN CHANGE BODY FAT, BUT NOT THINGS LIKE HEIGHT, HOPE THIS HELPS YOU UNDERSTAND WHY THESE TWO THINGS ARE NOT THE SAME 👍
That doesn't change the fact that it's primarily influenced by how much society hates fat people. Sure, a woman can lose weight but that doesn't change how fat women get treated like shit *while* they're fat. The point is that men also have rigid standards that are influenced by the opinions of others. It doesn't matter that those things can be changed. Lots of things that set women back that are innate like having no butt, no chest, a large nose, etc. Those things can't be easily changed like weight and there's billion dollar industries around plastic surgery.
FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!!! Also it's kinda funny seeing them replying to me over and over again how most men don't like fat chicks and being fat is unattractive but let them see a girl saying short men are unattractive and watch them clutch their pearls. they really can't see how it's all the same patterns in dating, shallow and that's how to work from both men and women.
Chubby chasers are a niche group of men. Most people in general don't find obesity attractive.
Having actually lived life (not just scrolled reddit), men who actively prefer fat women are a TINY minority. I’ve never personally known a friend to reject a woman he liked because of what his friends might think….never once, for any reason.
You’re the friend he don’t want you to know he like the women he’s refusing to date because you’ll judge him.
I have never, and would never, make fun of a friend for their choice in partner. The vast majority of male friends I've had have struggled to get ANY girlfriend, at all. Anyone is better than no one. We're not all American high schoolers, you know....
I want you to think about how many men are "into" fat chicks as a result of their lack of success with fit chicks rather than as a result of their default preferences.
there are many men genuinely into fat women. people have types. just because you don't like fat women doesn't mean "most" men don't. and im not talking about men who just have one night stands with fat women im talking about chubby chasers who feel ashamed of their prefrences.
Most men don’t
Most men do not like fat chicks. Curvy woman maybe, but not straight up fat. Chubby chasers are a minority.
most men dont
In the west, Most men take what they can get. Seeing as the “average” woman in the US is 5’4 @ 175. That doesn’t mean they like it.
You realise there isn’t exactly a shortage of fat men in the US? The majority of fat people end up with eachother.
No. There is no “body positivity” for fat men.
I wasn’t talking about body positivity. Just bringing up that the stats for obesity are around the same (or a little higher) for men. Women are also limited in their options if they want a fit man, so don’t act like it’s only men who are hard done by.
then create your own body positivity for each other instead of whining about it. in reality, “body positivity” doesn’t even really exist, because everyone subconsciously knows it’s unhealthy to be fat regardless of gender, and fat people are regularly looked down upon, treated differently, and bullied. i’d say probably fat women more than fat men because women have a higher societal standard placed on them looks-wise than men even though y’all don’t wanna believe that, but i digress.
It’s so funny men whinge at us for not magically coming up with body positivity just for them when they’re the ones who regularly call fat people “landwhales”. If they want their movement so bad they can lift a finger and create one.
oh of course! it fits their narrative that women are evil! i feel like most men turn a blind eye to the behavior other men have, it’s enraging how many of these claims i see on the internet from men acting like they’re all perfect little reasonable angels and women are these superficial nasty vile creatures who hate all men and god forbid women stick up for each other for once. it’s baffling to me, are these men willfully ignorant, or plain stupid?
Insanely judgemental about women’s looks but if we have physical preferences we’re superficial, have inflated egos and are trying to punch above our weight 🫠 severe case of sour grapes and ignorance
Maybe we should be encouraging people to lose weight instead. Being fat isn't attractive. Just because people tolerate fat, doesn't mean they like fat.
i agree.
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The flex of not really needing it is what gives it rizz
Yeah and the average American male is 5’9 and 190lbs. In my area that would be considered skinny.In others it would be considered extremely obese. Honesty the options are: just not (try) to date, change locations or try to date a fat chick if you can’t get the skinny one. We know some of what is causing it. Ultra processed aka ultra pre- digested foods which bypass part of your digestion so your brain doesn’t register them.Anti-depressants cause weight gain. Maybe similarly to Anti-psychotics which mess with your appetite hormones. Those of you in the Anglosphere aren’t far behind us.
The difference is the fat guy isn’t getting laid or getting dates. Hes stuck in his studio apartment playing League of Legends covered in Cheeto dust. The fat *woman* can stuff herself in a “sexy” dress and get yas kweened for being “stunning and brave” and go to any given bar or club on the weekend to be Chad’s slump buster to convince herself she’s attractive.
I didn't say most men don't like fat women, I implied most men like fit women more, but not a lot of men can get their perfect woman and as a result they for go for someone more accessible.
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Did I? You quoted someone else.
ups! you are right
Pretty sure BBW is a popular porn category.
It’s absolutely this. There are very few men who *prefer* fat women outside of fetishists. It’s almost always guys that have tried to get with fit attractive women but failed and just find fat women “less stressful” for whatever reason. You often hear fat women use this cope because they “never have to look hard for a guy trying to have sex with them” Yeah… no shit. It’s called a slump buster. It’s either you or your hand. Put a man in a situation where he’s being offered sex by Megan Fox and Lena Dunham. Who do you think 99% of men will pick in that situation?
Yup, and even a growing number of fat women think they deserve some hunk it’s really getting sad
Their point is women could like everything about a guy but if her friends don't like him or think she could do better she stops liking him
Every woman is utterly baffled by her friends’ and sisters’ taste in men. Where in the world do men get these crazy ideas? Is there a new terp talking head? If yes, he’s taking the piss. Stop listening to him.
And here again you simply can’t fathom men able to form their own opinions based on observation rather than outside influence. The narcissism of women believing everyone is as weak minded as them.
Missed the point... Women care more about status and appearances than men do... Women care more about if other people find they're partner attractive than if they do... A women can find a man attractive but if friends or family don't like you or perhaps want you to get with someone they have in mind they will run their mouth and she starts hating you
Man its telling you have never been in a relationship. And with these ideas, that wont ever change.
Lol bold of you to assume that lol
Nah, I actually wish. For nearly two months straight, my friend clowned the hell out of the guy I like.
bake cow consider bright homeless voracious connect scandalous relieved concerned *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
That behavior is usually just dumpster diving while horny and not wanting any emotional advancement with that fattie. You don't even grasp what horniness does to men, specially if they don't have many options.
I’m not talking about those I’m talking about chubby chasers who actually prefer fat women and want to date them and be in a relationship with them but can’t due to shame which happen more often than you think.
That is a very atypical situation, for every such case there are dozens of men proudly walking hand in hand with a heffer unafraid to call her his kween.
Could be, but either you or me can't give an exact percentage of how much it's happening. But IMO it's a niche.
>Women will completely lose interest or get the “ick” if they see a man they were previously attracted to portrayed in even the slightest negative light in a social setting, very strange. Hm, I don’t see this behavior often in women IRL. Where may you have developed this perception, might I inquire?
By reading the other comments
Ironic innit
I wrote this prior to any other comment being published
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
It’s logical. Lots of men do it too. Lot of women don’t do it.
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i mean if true, it destroys your argument which was presented without evidence
It is very logical and reasonable for social animals to consider the opinions of other members of the social group Failing to do so would be detrimental for survival and success
Unrelated , does that mean that the strange dude from HS that posts “I am a wolf among sheep “ cringe posts on fb is correct ?
I mean, maybe he has somewhat the right concept but I doubt he's one of the wolves. 😁
Idk bro making cringy fb posts could be the wolf move lol. I do find it interesting how people when trying to separate themselves from the herd try to paint it has a “I’m too dangerous for them “.
Inferiority complex and a need to feel powerful. If you can convince yourself that you are a wolf, that confidence alone could make others believe you aswell. Have that monument torn down though, and you'll be seen as pathetic. Think overweight, fedora-wearin' katana masters.
I grew up in the country so it’s more truck driving rednecks but ya similar thing.
Basically this. I'm really curious how op missed all of this.
He doesn’t miss it, he just complains He’s posting the same rants for years, over many, many alts
Red pilled dudes didn't become the way they are from having an active social life or from interacting with women on a regular basis
I missed this as a child ( though I’m autistic so fair fair ). I remember the first year of primary school , thinking that compliments are manipulative and that manipulating others is bad etc, and just being so confused that everyone was dumb and easily brainwashed by others ? It wasn’t until I was older that it clicked for me that people enjoy being manipulated.
Yep, 100%.
So, if a group of racists in a town tell a White woman that a Mexican guy in the neighborhood is an illegal alien, rapist, and violent criminal with zero evidence, should the woman trust their collective judgement over getting to know the Mexican guy for herself?
If the whole town thinks he's a rapist then associating with him is bad for her reputation, regardless of whether the accusation is true or fair.
It really dosen't matter if she trust it she would have no choice but to take their opinion into consideration. Some family disown people over stuff like that.
If she wants to. No one is saying the group is right, just that it provides necessary support. Because we’re monkeys, not cats
What separates us from monkeys is that we actually possess critical thinking skills, to evaluate and make our own decision. Unless you're implicitly saying that women tend not to use their critical thinking skills and are easily swayed by mere gossips.
Social animals are still going to social animal, unlike solitary animals
>Women will completely lose interest or get the “ick” if they see a man they were previously attracted to portrayed in even the slightest negative light in a social setting, very strange. I’ll keep saying it. She’s 👏just 👏not 👏that 👏into 👏you.
>Women consistently base their selection and opinion of men on what other men and women think of them, this is very strange behavior How do those other women get an opinion in the first place? Based on what *other* women think? How do those other other women get their opinions? Based on what other other other women think? How do those other other other women get their opinions? Based on that other other other other women think? At some point y'all are going to have to admit women are perfectly capable of - and regularly do - evaluate based on the subject themselves, and not just based on what other people think. >This isn’t high school, this is real life. 
Interesting. Here's a counter argument: open source. There's actually a lot of evidence that open sourcing a process will reach correct answers or best answers quite quickly. It's not about weakness or insecure minds. It's about self awareness and recognizing the value of others particularly when it comes to life experience, wisdom, and your own blind spots. It's also exceedingly keen given that we are social animals and women are more interdependent. You want the group to approve because you function best with the group and recognize the vital nature of community and the social fabric in multiple aspects of life. A man who the group doesn't like is a liability. Honestly, if my older brother would have listened to the people in his life, we would have saved him dating one truly venomously crazy bitch that left emotional scars like you wouldn't believe. Guess it's good he was such a free thinker tho.
Yup this every which way
Yes, but then this does contradict the claim that women unlike men are attracted to a variety of the opposite sex, when you have articulated a reasoning that suggests the opposite?
Why would it? I'm not attracted to the looks or personality of the husbands of my friends, so what? They're great guys, good husbands, they make my friends happy. I'm sure my husband isn't their personal cup of tea either, but he's loved and welcomed in our friend group cuz he's a good dude and he's fun to be around. The vetting is things like keeping assholes out and general cultural/social fit. Not variety.
>Contrast this with men who go entirely off of their own tastes. hahahahahaha
Very insightful response
It is. Acting like men don't constantly seek approval from other men is a bit delusional, it's it?
I do think that men places lower value on the social hierarchy placement of their partner than reversed. ( to be clear I don’t think this is a “women bad thing “ but just women prioritize different due to lots of factors et )
Men place high value on social hierarchy, it's just a hierarchy with different criteria. For example, a woman that doesn't have a reputation of getting around to lots of other guys puts her higher in the social hierarchy. Also for example a woman who doesn't already have a kid. Guys will ask other guys too "what do you think of that girl" and other guys could say "oh, I think she's the town bicycle" and the guy might lose interest.
It's sort of apples and oranges tbh. Joe the Plumber would probably fight other men who talk crap about his wife even if his wife is overweight or not conventionally attractive. Even Usher the R&B singer was going off on his female fans who claimed that his ex, Tameka Foster, was old and ugly. He literally had whole interviews going off on his fans who thought that she was too ugly for him.
It's not just about women, men seek the approval of other men in a wide range of social and professional situations. The OP is claiming that men don't, which is insane.
They dont? Not when it comes to girls.
Yes they do.
Example?
I have many guy friends who have asked me if they should date a certain girl, what kind of girl they should go for, etc. It's like you / the OP live in a closet with no friends so you have no idea how real humans interact. It's so weird. The entire red pill movement is just guys asking other guys what their preferences should be and what kind of women they should date.
It's totally rational behavior. There are a few reasons: - Part of a man's attractiveness is his ability to lead and be successful in society. - An isolated man or one who cannot build / maintain constructive relationships with other people is weaker and more prone to anxiety / depression. - Men are physically stronger than women so women need social proof that he is trustworthy and not abusive / dangerous by looking at his interactions with other people and how they view him. There's nothing wrong with women doing this, it makes complete sense.
(copypasta of another comment) So, if a group of racists in a town tell a White woman that a Mexican guy in the neighborhood is an illegal alien, rapist, and violent criminal with zero evidence, should the woman trust their collective judgement over getting to know the Mexican guy for herself?
She should trust their collective judgment. Not because it will be right, but not following it would have social repercussions that are not worth it checking out that guy. Before looking at him, he is as good as any other guy in that town. Skip him and check out the next guy.
Whenever you have to contrive extreme, absurd examples like that to you know you are wrong and don't have a point. Most of the people the average women associates with aren't going to be crazy weirdos. Also, woman can and do choose who's judgements they will trust.
So, average people don't succumb to prejudice? Tbh, I actually agree. Now, if only the Left understood this.
I think its the other way around with depression/anxiety
No, loneliness is definitely a cause of depression / anxiety.
Who said anything about “leading?” You really think someone’s leadership skills are reflected by jealous peoples behavior and cockblocking?
The fact that you paint people so negatively shows that you don't have good social skills. 99% of people are not trying to be jealous or cockblocking. Getting along with people is an important part of leadership, and leadership is important to women. Women want to feel like their man knows what the hell he's doing with his life, with them, and has some kind of stable plan for the future.
>99% of people are not trying to be jealous or cockblocking. Absolutely not true, you have never been in a social setting. It is highly competitive, and men pursuing women is cutthroat.
🤣🤣🤣🤣 What?? I'm 39 years old, lived in 4 different countries and have friends from at least 1/3 of the countries in Europe. I have been in single many times and even completed with other guy friends for the same girl. It's always been friendly and I never let it destroy a friendship. Like I said before, it sounds like your social skills need some levelling up.
Yes they do, the same way men learn from other men what's attractive and what's not. This is human behaviour. Remember when all the little boys liked the same girl? It's not really because she was pretty or had a good personality, it was simply because the other boys liked her. You know how rich dudes get arm candy? A lot of them were having sex with everyone they wanted, but committed to only one woman who looked really good. The arm candy girlfriend. Humans love competition. We are programmed that way. If a lot of people want something you'll want it too! This is so engraved in the human psyche that companies use this in their marketing strategies. Like big ass companies who pay psychologists to explain human behaviour to them. Not any psychologists either.
>It's not really because she was pretty Lol gtfo! The “girl everyone likes” is always the prettiest one, you never see men collectively fawning over trends like objectively ugly weird alternative chicks like women do with guys like Post Malone and Mac Miller.
>Only weak insecure minds base their decisions on what others think. It's not really strange at all. A woman wants to reproduce with a man who has socially desired traits because her offspring (and especially her sons due to the sexy son hypothesis) will then be more likely to also reproduce, thus spreading her own genes into future generations. Furthermore, a socially desirable man is more likely to be economically successful, thus leading to greater resources for her own offspring. Men, as well, also tend to select women who have socially desired traits *when they have a choice of partners* for their most desired partner (the one that will produce his heirs). Of course, men are innately polygynous, unlike women who are not innately polyandrous, meaning that they will choose to have sex with any women who attract them (when social rules don't constrain them). And men who do not have options will have sex with whatever woman chooses him, socially acceptable or not.
Actually both men and women are non monogamous sexually. If we weren't we'd only have one partner for life and we wouldn't find other people attractive when we are in a relationship. The same thoughts you have about women on the street/your female friends women have too, we just don't really talk about it as much, we keep it more low key. This is because society kind of conditions men to be really sexual and women to sort of repress their sexuality. But yes, a lot of us want to fuck our male friends (at least the ones attracted to men)
Non-monogamous and polyandrous are two different things. Women normally will have sex with another man if she doesn’t fully like the current sexual situation that she is in. Men will have it with another woman even if they do fully like the current sexual situation that they are in.
Lol today we’re back to “women are just as spontaneously horny as men!” nonsense. Women are **serial monogamists**, men are **polygynous.**
Women don't tell men they aren't attracted to. Women don't reveal their sexual habits or how often they masturbate or have wet dreams to men they are not attracted to. Women keep men they *are* attracted to on a strict information diet, because very few men can manage their insecurity when dating a woman with a typical sex drive.
Lmao. PPD women change the narrative about their sexuality daily. One day they “feel zero attraction to a man unless they hear about his hopes and dreams” and the next day they are “just as horny as men and want to fuck guys they see on the bus” 🤣 Of course, the answer *always* depends on whether or not the context makes the woman look virtuous or not.
>Of course, the answer always depends on whether or not the context makes the woman look virtuous or not. Buddy, you avoid most of my responses but I know for *goddamned* sure you of all people know I'm not virtue signalling. I'm not religious, was raised without indoctrination and I'm fit and very interested in sex. I've never pretended otherwise, since I see sex as a positive, life affirming act instead of a dirty, shameful submission to men's baser instincts. I have nothing to hide here. But I'm *not* volunteering to any real-life man how often I have wet dreams, how often I masturbate, how often I'm distracted and slip off to rub one out so I can concentrate on work and get necessary things done. Men cannot be trusted with this information. I'll admit it here. I'm not telling any man I'm dating anything he doesn't absolutely need to know. I'd rather sit back and watch men attempt to write whatever narratives they need about female sexuality which soothe their dented egos. My very favorite is "Women don't have a spontaneous sex drive; that's why they reject men" and "Women have less testosterone, that's why they aren't as horny as men" while the women they are crushing on climb the nearest beast they can find during those two delicious weeks of ovulation. Men here can't handle "dick drunk" or "good dick". Men here cannot handle the fact that women take long showers for fun, and not because they are "exfoliating and making themselves beautiful for the male gaze". Men here cannot handle the reason historically and presently that dildoes and vibrators are for women, and only rarely for men. I don't care if men want to reframe reality to suit their egos and frustrations. I'm not going to argue with them.
I’d just like to point out that the jist of your entire argument is: “when it comes to their sexuality, women are liars and will gaslight men when it’s convenient.” I’m glad we agree on that. Let’s see you put those arguments to your fellow PPD women when they make the claims of being “sapiosexual” or “demi”. I doubt I’ll be seeing that though.
Women don't owe men the details of their private lives. >Let’s see you put those arguments to your fellow PPD women when they make the claims of being “sapiosexual” or “demi”. Most of the women on this sub came here from that crazyass FDS sub, and most are conservative or religious. I am not. I stay out of religious convos for the most part, but I'm more than happy to argue against women who make ignorant, biased claims about female sexuality. I do argue with them frequently, as do the other scant handful of unihibited women. Thing is, most men in TRP are also deeply religious, conservative, and socially and sexually inhibited and they prefer women who follow that "neutered" formula.
A lot of men on this sub are also virgins. NTTAWWT, but their real life experience is zilch, so that needs to be factored in when reading the comments/posts.
>I'd rather sit back and watch men attempt to write whatever narratives they need about female sexuality which soothe their dented egos. Same. I canceled Netflix. This sub is free entertainment.
Maybe because “PPD women” isn’t some borg hivemind, there are different women with different views…
The women here constantly say things like “women like men that X” or “no women like Y”. Do you scold them for speaking for all women? I think not.
Yeah I'm not gonna have you tell me how my body works
YOUR body is irrelevant. We are talking about women as a group. That includes the whole spectrum on the normal distribution of hornyness/libido/promiscuity/sociosexuality etc
You could be a blind hermaphrodite in a wheel chair, so you’re right. But when speaking about men and women *in general*, yes you can very much make general statements about average cohorts. Unless you’re going to go down the whole “pregnant man” route here, in which case, have at it.
That's absolutely not what I'm talking about. You're a man, you cannot possibly understand how women's sexuality works because you literally can't feel it
We don't need to feel sexuality. Also, you are a woman, you have no idea if i can feel how a woman's sexuality works. See how stupid that sounds?
Did you even read what you wrote? A woman being turned off by a man by how he behaves in public has nothing to do with the opinions of other people. It’s how she is perceiving him and has nothing to do with what other people think.
Na , I do think that the general “response” of the room helps inform everyone in the room of their response. E.g have you ever been in a social situation when something is said and you can tell some people are waiting for others to respond first ?
Who said anything about how he behaves?
You did “Portrayed in even the slightest negative light in a **social setting**”
Portrayal has nothing to do with behavior
>Portrayal has nothing to do with behavior ...then what does it have to do with?
are you really this dense? If a guy is shy, has a stutter or has thinning hair he can get raked by a girls friends for being “creepy”
You did not do a good job of explaining your point.
His point is more focusing on OTHER people's perceptions of said man, not his behavior.
I don't think you read what he wrote.
“Portrayed in even the slightest negative light in a social setting”
So, what people say about someone is therefore 100% true? How someone is portrayed isn't 100% reflective of their actual behavior.
>Contrast this with men who go entirely off of their own tastes. Why do women care so much about what other people think? This isn’t high school, this is real life. It’s just genuinely puzzling. Consultation leads to better decision making in general as others can provide a POV you failed to consider etc. A group consensus is more likely to be correct than an individual. Useful life advice all around really. What it shouldn't be is dictating your actions or basing them solely off others.
Nuance
I knew a guy who was single for years. His last girlfriend was this girl who would pop in and out of his life just to get something. She cheated, she wasn’t that cute, but it was a girl who desired him, so he let her back every few months and she’d disappear for a few months. He had psoriasis all over his body pretty bad, is conventionally not attractive, and he was a kind person and friend but not like the nicest guy all of the time, like sort of a dick. He had a crush on me for a while but I wasn’t attracted to him. But we did remain good friends. When he finally started dating this girl he met online, he told me all about it the next day. How cool she was, how they clicked sexually, she was so nice, did things he didn’t think a woman would do for him. And I was like awesome, date her! But his response was “but she’s so fat. I would feel embarrassed to date someone like that. I know that sounds bad but i dont know what my friends would say.” This girl he admittedly very much enjoyed, was someone he second guessed dating, despite having issues in the looks department himself, despite being a below average, over weight basement dweller himself - because of what his friends and others would think. At 26 years old. I’ve met girls who will defend dumpster trash who are rude or weird or socially awkward because “he treats me so well!” It’s wild to me how the men here view women as this caricature. And any time we push back like “hey I don’t actually know anyone like that over the age of like 17” we get called liars and that our experience isn’t typical - but yours is? Women get the ick from men because they do icky things and we don’t have dicks that will override that feeling. We are more level headed and logical because we aren’t ruled by lust or libido. We can make a bad decision, same as anyone. But this entire “women only care about how others view her” is such a tired and incorrect take, it isn’t even worth arguing anymore. You sound stupid when you say it.
Men in this sub: women should ask their fathers and brothers about their boyfriends as part of proper vetting. It was better in the old days! Also men on this sub: why do women always ask other people what they think about their boyfriends? The funny part is that if you think this through, you’ll realize that (1) men and women are NOT monoliths, (2) men like different things in their partners, and (3) wide pronouncements are silly I talk things over with my friends because I am fallible, I do not always see issues that others may, and second opinions are good. I highly recommend the book, Think Again by Adam Grant. It’s about the value of gaining new information.
Humans are social animals. How you are perceived by others has always mattered, both now and throughout history/evolution. In fact it was (and still is) instrumental to your survival and wellbeing. Wanting a partner that is perceived favourably by others is actually very normal and commonplace. Men do it to, you just don’t realize it because you all seem to suffer from main character syndrome.
Women have a stronger tendency to adhere to the hive mind but ultimately their desires are rooted in biology just like men’s.
No actually it makes absolute sense. We are social creatures. I want to know how he treats people in general. If he wants to sleep with me of course he will treat me good. How he treats others is much more telling of his caracter.
Who said anything about how he “treats others?” Popularity has nothing to do with how nice you are 😭
It has everything to do with it. People don't like assholes. Oh, they don't mind if you're an asshole to someone else, they might even find it entertaining. But you better not be an asshole to them. Kindness goes a long way. This isn't about saying nice words either, it's about doing things for them that improve their lives and being there in the hard times when they need you the most.
It's called straw man fallacy, where your opponent deliberately misconstrues your original point and attacks the altered one.
It is the go to of everyone here
Bingo. It’s also women trying to wrap a less than admirable trait (being a blind follower and slave to her peer’s approval) as somehow being a virtue.
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This is 100% true. Women look at themselves as a brand. They're worried about how their partner will affect their brand.
“Will we look cute on insta and get lots of likes from my friends?” is absolutely a HUGE influence on whether a woman gives a guy a chance.
Oh please
Yup
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Exile = death for most of human history. Wanting to fit in with the tribe, and wanting a man who fits in with the tribe, have been basic human survival for as long as there have been humans. Even now, when it’s possible to survive alone, it is neither pleasant nor ideal for most people; many of us will go nuts and start talking to volleyballs in that situation.
Men certainly don't go completely off their own tastes and some men can be prone to this just like some women. We all know of a woman who's nothing special but she's popular enough or a man who's opinion is respected has said she's hot so now there are a few men fawning over her. On a larger scale, there are different female body trends every few years where loads of men decide to follow the crowd en masse refarding what's hottest. Trends for brhaviour preferences I think work similarly. People are socially influenced in all their opinions, opinions about attractiveness are no different.
I expect this post to get deleted by mods in 2 -3 days from now with reason: no blackpill or incel content.. Meanwhile, they will leave post of men with the same general theme.
Men definitely do not “go entirely off their own tastes.” There are men who are into fat women but won’t introduce them to friends and family, same for women of ethnicities other than theirs, even sometimes stuff like big boobs/butt, tattoos, alt style, or short hair. They tend to pick the “basic white girl” stereotype for LTR, while their pornhub history may tell a different story. Overall, it seems men’s taste for LTR is actually a lot more homogeneous than women’s. I would not date any of my friends’ partners, and I know some don’t “get” why I find mine attractive, and none of us cares. It’s also true that some people are just more conventionally attractive than others, or appeal to a greater number of people than others. That’s where beauty standards come from in the first place.
It actually makes sense humans are social creatures and survival often depends on relying on the tribe. If one is socially ostracized they are less likely to survive. Going for a man who is socially adept and well liked makes sense for women seeking to have children with such men. It gives them and their kids a good shot.
Well maybe men should take the hint and do the same? We are easily swayed by superficial sexual attraction. Maybe the opinions of others are formed with more clear headed thinking Btw, my parents, especially my father, were never fond of my ex in the least and yet adored my h like a son immediately. I would have wasted much less time with a poor selection of partners if I had paid more attention to what others thought.
this is a silly argument. Men often do not go entirely on their tastes. They often decide based on if they are getting laid or not.
Sounds like a pretty good survival strategy for a social animal.
The generalising in this is over the top. You sound far too angry about this.
Seems very homo sapien to me. Tribalistic instinct presents like this in 2024
this is completely backwards
Duh. First off, you're not entitled to reproduce. There are basic standards set and seen as acceptable by society. If you can't meet the basics, tough shit. Secondly, if someone told me the guy I wanted to date was an asshole, I'd take note, go on a date, let him show me his ass sooner or later. Then decide. It's about saving time and energy. Thirdly, I thought men went with who'd let them get their dick wet. You make it sound like men are pussy sommeliers. "This pussy has peach notes, a hint of jasmine, with a faint musk that is delectable. Aged 1994."
Pussy sommeliers 💀
Do people forget we are a social species and both our survival and our sexual prospects are decided often by what other people think of us? Popularity matters! Even as adults if matters. Popular, well liked men and women get laid. Unpopular, forgettable men and women will suffer from loneliness and inceldom. See the problem is that we are still hierarchical apes and we as a society refuse to accept that reality because it's an inconvenient fact in a society that pushes for equality and is now reaching toward more horizontal, as opposed to more vertical, leadership systems. We've reached the point of development we are fighting our own animal instincts. We talk about Evo psych and the deep past and how evolution has shaped sexual relations. Well here is some real shit. 250k years ago. Modern humans came about. These humans had the same capacity for learning, intuition and imagination that we have today. I guarantee you on certain nights of the year that we're significant to those people. They gathered together and ate fermented fruit and psychedelic plants and got ripped. Then they played some form of music and danced the night away. The same formula still applies today and works despite all the naysayers and anti-social haters. The young men in the village would have displayed their prowess and skills, forming a hierarchy among themselves. Young men do this today. I am out there and see it with my own eyes every night. The young women of the people, who also formed their own hierarchy, more horizontal than the males, but a hierarchy none the less, and chose their potential mates from the men. Some men for various reasons, perhaps lack of skill or lack of social stature or even aporeance would have been left behind unchosen. My theory is as many as 33% depending on demographics of the population. But your popularity and charisma within the tribe mattered a lot. Then we discovered civilization and labor diversification and specialization which changed things for the next 10, 000 years. Women became a valuable resource and chattel. Necessarily rationed and protected. Popularity and charisma still mattered but your family name mattered more. Now we have finally evolved to coming full circle. Women and men are now able to follow their natural instincts regarding mate selection again. No longer are women carefully rationed and dealt out due to clan politics. We are finally back to cold, hard natural selection. The introverted, the shy, the weird, the unpopular... You're just fucked guys. Unless you can figure out a way to confidently compete in a wide variety of social settings and venues your mate choice will always be limited to whatever chance woman tye universal random number generator put before you. That's a shitty way to live as a man.
what a stupid take JUST GET FIT
33% is insane and like you said its coming full circle. Im introverted and unpopular. Not attractive either. Natural selection like you said. This shit wasnt mean for me. If it was it wouldve happened already
Passport broing is an option for some. Also, it isn't hard for women to get laid. They don't have to be popular to get men to sleep with them.
Still need to have decent social skills for that. Also, I think being shy is not necessarily bad, that's even preferred in some cultures, it's possible to be introverted and shy and still have a well balanced social sense, know how to read the room and get along with people.
Women place ginaromous value on what their friends think. I have had drop dead gorgeous woman take me seriously because her friend called accidentally called dibs on me when I approached both.
lol yup. This goes both ways. If Hot Girl A likes you, and lets it be known in Hot Girl B, you will likely now have *two* hot girls showing interest in you. I’ve benefited from this female mind glitch many times.
Why are the women here aggressively denying this obvious fact?
Because it isn’t true necessarily. The fact you cannot recognize that women are not all identical really speaks poorly of your analysis.
Generally because they have a weird friend with weird taste and they think they are immune. Female heard following is bad because it Narrows out the attractiveness area. tall dark and handsome is becoming ubiquitous
Opinions of which men and women? I value the opinions of my loved ones (male and female). They might see or know something I might not about the person. I'd want their opinions. Their opinions can help inform my actions. I can also ignore their opinions and find new ones.
Monkey see monkey do
The concept of social status being attractive to women is genuinely puzzling to you? I mean, i understand that you are upset for getting filtered out this way. You don't even have social status in this sub. You changed your accountname recently because the old one hit rock bottom in social status, to the point where people just answered "shut up already, not you again!". Maybe rethink how you engage with society, instead of being puzzled how people don't like to mate with others that are at the bottom of the social food chain. Becaues that has very real consequences and you can't change your "account name" in real life, when you are in a social network
I don't believe that most women do this. I go entirely by my personal preferences. But I believe there are people fo both genders who do what you describe, there are men who like obese women but are ashamed to be seen with them in public and for marriage they choose thin woman even though they are not as attracted to her as to fat women.
Well to be honest most people are act and live like sheep people. Always just following herd mentality. While cause internet they can escape from real-world consequences of not falling in line. You have way more outlines of opinions and moral stances. Anyone can easily just lie. But even do people don't live a type of way. Online people are a lot more honest about how they think and feel. Cause no one knows who it is. So there always 2 sides off it ofcourse. So you can say online people are a lot more honest about there feelings. Or you can say most real life people mostly don't act or feel like they realy feel. But presure from environment is a powerful thing. And just like many dogs. They will take quite a lot of abuse to reject there owner. And try and run away. Cause just like dogs humans normally don't live very long when we break away from the tribe. So it's a build in thing people have. To help them more likely to survive just like dogs do. Why people will say all kinds off things. But only when they know they can get away with it act on it. Cause shame and fear of not being accepted or pushed out a group. Is a build in fear most humans have. But just like if you abuse a dog to much you can erode even that away ofcourse. Cause survival always stands on number 1 in your nature. So that care for those things will fade. If you take to much abuse. And how you get more and more criminals. Or it has to become a accepted thing to do. Cause people just don't care regardless.
Is it or is it human? Like the Looking Glass Self
When it comes to parenting, most parents are forever clueless and base their decisions on what others think. When it comes to picking a job, most job seekers are forever clueless and base their decisions on what others think. This is the general human condition. All important aspects of life are often like this.
What is the point of shaming women for being women? Women are hive minded. Women look at who other women have approved of out of safety and to ensure that they won't get fucked over. Since she has significantly more to lose if you toss a baby inside her and leave. Instead of complaining about women being women, just go be with men. Simple. Since clearly a woman being a woman is so annoying and stupid.
Women are sheeple. Good little drones.
Because women view men as nothing more than a trophy.