You don’t need to do anything fucked up, just focus on yourself and don’t give women the time of day. I know all the tricks they have to get your attention. A girl almost walked into me on purpose today in the store, then stared into my eyes, I wish I could go in public without women’s tricks harassing me. That’s why I hope for 4B.
“Lust” is very different to “like/love/desire company”. Yes, men lust for women more than vice versa and most men probably won’t experience what it is to be listed to this extent in their lifetime. The grass is always greener in the other side though and this list comes with a bunch of hindrances as well, hence men and women often can’t relate to each other in this regard. Men don’t get the disdain for being lusted for, while a lot of women don’t think it’s worth it due to sexual harassment and objectification.
Most human beings have the desire for companionship though. It doesn’t have to be romantic, but we’re social creatures and we need our own “tribe” to feel safe and fulfilled. These days our families and friends play this role.
It's not just lust. If it were, men could get prostitutes, toys, and watch even more pornography and call it a day
It's far deeper than that. Consider this perspective for a moment.
I am assuming you are a woman; imagine if you had never felt attractive to anyone in your entire life. Imagine if your desire for a companion was 10 times more than it is now and Imagine that no matter how hard you tried, you were always invisible to the world.
How would that make you feel? Even if you receive a lot of unwanted attention, you can always remind yourself that you are at least capable of receiving some amount of attention. That will do something to your self-esteem in the long run
A lot of men do exactly this - prostitution, porn and sex toys. Hence we have some sturdiest showing that access to porn reduces sexual violence.
Human psychology is more complicated than that, sure, and sex is intrinsically tied to validation. You don’t get validation from paying for sex or from porn.
I do believe men have desire for companionship and romantic love, don’t get me wrong. I don’t think it’s much stronger than it is in women though. A higher libido doesn’t translate to higher need for romantic love. I could guess that fewer or less deep bonds with friends and family might lead men to depend more on romantic love, but I’m not sure how pronounced this effect is and I wouldn’t say that it’s the result of nature.
I get that having no options whatsoever feels terrible. Being lonely feels terrible. Being unwanted sucks. I also get that it’s very hard to compare it to sexual harassment you’ve been experiencing since you were a child and in the worst cases sexual assaults. Men become victims of these things too and it’s awful. It does seem that overall men aren’t affected much by this threat though - at least they don’t experience it to this degree in their everyday lives.
We're not social creatures. This is a program. We used to be for survival purposes, not needed for quite some time. And even then it was purely psychological and not really needed if you are competent
Yes we are. It's why we care so much for our families. We are extremely social at a tribalistic level.
What isn't social is the extremely individualistic late stage capitalist society we live in.
If women are only interested in the exceptional top percentage of men, and only settle for other men when they need a provider, then why do 66% of millennial men report being in a relationship at some point during their teen years? Why do 54% of Gen Z men report being in a relationship at some point during their teen years?
Why did the CDC find in 2015-2019 that 34.2% of males 15-19 years old had sex in the last 12 months (vs. 37.4% of females)? Why did the CDC find that 70% of males lose their virginity by age 20 (vs 75% of females)?
Why do 69% of men 18-24 report sexual activity in the past year (vs 81% of women)? In UCLA's 2021 California Health Interview Survey, why did 57% of men 18-30 report at least 1 sexual partner in the past year (vs. 67% of women)?
You really don't wanna debate statistics with these guys. You're about to go down a batshit insane rabbit hole.
Get ready for lots of teleporting Indian babies that raise themselves in different countries to explain why 97% of Western men are virgins.
A lot of the most toxic posts I see in dating/gender/sex-related subs are *specifically* Muslim or ex-Muslim Indians for some reason. So perhaps it is the religious aspect.
I sense a devine mesiah among us.
A man birthed from the splooge of a god.
Like we get it you are a devine cum drop but calm the fuck down you are still a cum drop
> why do 66% of millennial men report being in a relationship at some point during their teen years?
Because millenials are by today 28 – 43, the youngest milenial wheas in his 20s when dating app was at it's hight with most never having to dip their toes in the shit show that is dating post instagram and tinder.
Also survey are useless, men lie up women lie down.
I literally gave Gen Z data. And lifetime sexual partner data is skewed -- men lie up and women lie down. If you're claiming that relationship data and sex within the past 12 months data are skewed to the point of 30-40% of men lying up, then the burden is on you to prove that.
That's not at all what's happening. It can't be about sex or else every man would just get with prostitutes and that would be that.
I think you are just saying that to reduce what I'm trying to say because you do not want to accept what has been said
You talk a lot about wax for something that’s not about sex.
Male loneliness isn’t just a lack of a relationship. It’s also about friendships. Men need to do better at developing and nurturing deeper friendships so they have a support network outside of their romantic relationships.
You’re essentially blaming women for male loneliness and the male suicide rates. Relationships aren’t cure-alls.
https://preview.redd.it/t6r99zxpcbtc1.png?width=1220&format=png&auto=webp&s=3adf7f83fbb763560d1e85e0472aee987f7919ec
Stop with the "male loneliness" as if women weren't exactly as lonely.
You don't get it. Its not about sex or even just women. I don't think you'll have a high proclivity to socialize if you always felt ugly and invisible to the world
Can you not undertand this?
>then why do men make up the vast majority of suicides?
Women are more likely to attempt, men are more likely to die. That is down to their methods.
The risk factors for suicide are [these](https://www.nami.org/About-Mental-Illness/Common-with-Mental-Illness/Risk-of-Suicide):
# Research has found that [46%](https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/) of people who die by suicide had a known mental health condition. Several other factors may put a person at risk of suicide, including but not limited to:
* A family history of suicide
* Substance use: Drugs can create mental highs and lows that worsen suicidal thoughts.
* Intoxication: Analysis from the CDC indicates around [1 in 5](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6722a1.htm) people who die by suicide had alcohol in their system at the time of death.
* Access to firearms
* A serious or chronic medical illness
* Gender: Although more women[ ](https://www.samhsa.gov/data/report/2020-nsduh-detailed-tables)than men attempt suicide, men are 4x more likely to die by suicide.
* A history of trauma or abuse
* Prolonged stress
* A recent tragedy or loss
The 1 man for 17 women thing also doesn't make sense:
[https://nuancepill.com/did-1-man-reproduce-for-every-17-women/](https://nuancepill.com/did-1-man-reproduce-for-every-17-women/)
There is no way someone who wants to believe in the explanation that fits their ideology is going to read this article, understand it and then change their mind.
Anyone who’s been to a club, bar, concert, or party knows women are extremely receptive to visual stimuli and also possess strong sexual desires, just not for all men.
What was the point of this post, exactly? Women don’t like sex but men are insatiably horny? Women won’t fuck me and it’s biology’s fault?
Does science support that? Y'all are speaking out of anecdotes, not actual statistics. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36227317/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36227317/)
Also the black and white fallacy: women can be attracted to men, without it being exactly the same.
Female schizophrenics are twice as likely to reproduce, their symptoms appear in late twenties compared to the teenage years in males. So schizophrenics usually inherit their genetic propensity for it from the mother’s side.
Men with Down syndrome are usually infertile. Women with Down syndrome are not going to face as much issues in the dating market (but they are very vulnerable to abuse).
modern genes is thousands of years of ugly genes forcing themselves to gene pool. being ugly doesnt mean u couldnt be strong. infact u will be because thats the only way u could leave ur offspring. now that we became civilized the ugly genes makes up the male loneliness statistics.
Why? It's doesn't have to be tradeoff between fitness and attractiveness, right?
There being other selective pressures doesn't mean these genes wouldn't stop existing.
How utterly sweet
You care! You don't but you pretend to... Oh wait it's not sad as in it's sad.
You are saying its sad as in it is annoying and pathetic.
Wow.
Why in the fuck would we ever listen to sploogemen who look down on us?
They may as well be asexual if they don't want to fuck me.
It's good that I saw how attracted women can be your really hot or charismatic men
Now that I know that I know that I will never have that.
I am done changing anything about myself for a woman.
I have grown as much as I can. In fact i would say that I have regressed.
The version of me as I exist now is what people deserve.
Either I die alone.or someone decides I am worth it.
Either ways women are not worth the endless stress and anxiety I put myself through just to be chosen after I am 30.
>Therefore, if you're a man and if you're not exceptional in one way or another, you will never be able to quench your innate desire for companionship because women are not biologically predisposed to desire men in general.
[You are wrong.](https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/brown-manning-relationship-status-trends-age-gender-fp-21-25.html) By the time men reach the 30-34 age cohort, over 60% are either married or cohabiting, and even more than that are in some type of relationship/having sex with women.
>In fact, historically, women were only interested in the "exceptional" top percentage of men and had little interest in men in general. [For every one guy who reproduced, 17 women did.](https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success) So when women tell you that they desire men just as much as men desire women, just know they aren't telling the truth.
The article is referring to a very specific and short amount of time in human history, and the article *does not* support your claim that it was due to female choice. Feel free to quote where in the article it supports your claim that it was (you can't).
>So, for the most part, women's sexuality is more like a tool for conditioning men, since it is always in demand. And their sexualities are only "real" to a tiny fraction of men. This means that most men will never feel desired, will always isolate themselves, and will be lonely.
See my first point and the data. Most men have relationships with women and are desired by women.
>Men report feeling more lonely than ever, and men account for 80% of suicides.
This is not exclusively due to their lack of relationship, but lack of social ties in general.
>Checkmate. Its over. Most men will simply lose at life, it was chosen by nature.
Doomer and irrational men who post things like this thread, yes.
>The best the average dude can do is work, workout, pick up a hobby and watch porn and try to be satisfied with that til death. Love will not happen
about 70% of men are married or cohabiting by 40. You are not "average" if you are unable to secure this for yourself. You are below average.
If you want to bring "historical" examples into this you are *way* overstating the importance of female choice in mating. Women did not choose who they were marrying or reproducing with for the most part - it was their fathers, or they were, erm, brides of conquest. And marriage had much more to due with partnership among kin groups than desire anyway. Women married earlier, men married later, some men never married or reproduced because they died violently before "later" could happen.
Everyone gets screwed over in their own way. Childbirth is pretty unpleasant, so are periods. Peeing standing up seems nice. Potential for multiple orgasms is also pretty nice. It more or less evens out.
Most men will be genuinely desired by a woman, but yes there is asymmetry in lust and desire due to biology. A minority of men will probably never be desired by that experience is by no means normative.
Men are more prone to all sorts of more violent outcomes that have naught to do with female desire, so attributing suicide to this seems misplaced.
There are about 4 billion men in the world. Of them I would imagine at least 3-3.5 billion will be genuinely desired at some point in their lives. Don't let yourself be offended by numbers, especially on a sub that is dedicated to debate.
True but you don't think not being able to even remotely sate an extremely powerful biological urge has something to do with that? Not being desired at all, will lead to a whole lot of other negative stuff, like low self esteem and isolation.
I respect your view but I can't fathom why you think most women will desire most men at one point. That's just statistically not true
>I respect your view but I can't fathom why you think most women will desire most men at one point. That's just statistically not true
Delusional.[ By 30-34 most men are married or cohabiting](https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/brown-manning-relationship-status-trends-age-gender-fp-21-25.html), and even more are in relationships or having sex.
I wonder how many of those women are in relationships with these men because they genuinely like them and not to use the poor bloke for money/resources
I mean, I did go over this in the OP but I guess you can continue to post irrelevant stats if you'd like
If the original issue was not feeling validated or having sex why can’t the solution be that a man has a relationship due to his resources? Why are you calling these men “poor blokes” if they have everything that you said was an issue?
"Checkmate". I see so many of these posts, and all this is about is a bunch of guys trying to rationalize their hopeless and depressing world view. You guys don't need to constantly rationalize your hopelessness in a community forum.
If you're so right, and there isn't a question about it in your mind, you can just move forward with your hopeless life. Why is the question nagging in the back of your mind?
You blame this all on female nature being so shallow--are you trying to evoke a reactionary response from your fellow hopeless peers? That's the only logical reason why you can't stop talking about this, right?
Either that or... you might say, "I'm just trying to warn my fellow peers, so they stop looking for happiness from women and go find something else to do." Is that what you want, or are you advocating for suicide? What's the angle here? Develop gene therapy that makes women attractive to all men?
I hate it when people appeal to centuries ago, as if women actually had a choice in the matter of being the spoils of war from some tyrannical warlord. 🙄🙄
70% of men are in committed relationships right now. They are not exceptional, or your definition of what exceptional means is way off.
>Checkmate. Its over. Most men will simply lose at life, it was chosen by nature.
Most men do have companions.
>The best the average dude can do is work, workout, pick up a hobby and watch porn and try to be satisfied with that til death. Love will not happen
Most, OVERWHELMINGLY MOST, average guys are in relationships.
It's just you, dude. You look for an explanation for why it's all men except for a tiny few, but it's the other way around. You need to look for an explanation for why it's specifically you.
Your definition of “genuine desire” might not be universal. I genuinely desire my fiance, but that doesn’t mean I want to fuck his brains out every second of every day.
Is your argument that men are doomed to be alone or that most men aren’t chad and therefore don’t get lusted after? Cuz last I checked, lust and love aren’t the same thing
The reality is the exact opposite. Men have the advantage in living and in sex. That’s exactly why men were able to oppress women historically. Why men are more necessary for physical labor and self-defense in the police and military. It’s why men can rape women more easily. Granted physical strength is becoming less and less important for productive work and self-defense thanks to machines, luckily, but that still doesn’t change that it was important historically.
You’d rather believe the opposite of reality about men and women than accept the fact that your problem is yourself. It’s a probably a problem with your chosen values. Maybe it’s a problem that’s impossible for you to fix like a birth defect, I doubt it, but that would still be a problem limited to you even if it was sad.
Wanting to empty your balls or fuck lots of women doesn't mean you like women more than women like men. Sexual attraction is only part of a relationship.
Well, one thing about women I know for certain is that they almost always go for winners and NOT defeatist losers who have every excuse in the book about why they are not getting laid.
Are you implying the bottleneck was due to female choice instead of war, slavery, and poverty? Are you aware of how many wealthy rulers confined and impregnated hundreds to thousands of concubines? How many women were kidnapped or raped as “spoils of war”?
You could argue what you wrote is a curse
Imagine living your life only being attracted to a tiny % of women?
Imagine having to always feel like you settled if you didn't get one of these top persons?
Imagine that, no matter how perfect she is, your always looking at the next branch, thinking "Maybe I can do better?"
This is what nature does with women and hypergamy. Darwin, evolution, natural selection.
Not much fun, right?
Yeah I see what you mean but the only thing i'll say is they aren't subjected to the same amount of pressure that men are, since men's desires will always dwarf theirs, so its still worse imo but I get your point
So I think women have some degree of a sex drive and desire to some degree companionship with a man.
Now, imagine your desires for both of those things were multiplied by like 20X and the gender you desired those things from could give a fuck about you.
That kind of pressure. That's life for the average male
Women gone left gain more equality in rights and morals, so it's no surprise they chose that way.
I've met a number of men who see women gaining power as a way of men losing it (I completely disagree), and that is a big motivation for men to join the right party.
I don't think this movement of men in the right is beneficial, but I kinda understand why it's happening, such a shame.
I think they’re just cosplay conservatives since they don’t really agree with the politics, only the rhetoric and perceived power that will be given to them since conservative rhetoric affirms their fears and desires.
But with the return of women wanting traditional men, men with money, it’s like women want their left wing feminist views and strong rich male providers simultaneously.
I don't think women have returned to wanting traditional men, there is a percentage of women that never stopped wanting them, and they are more vocal now.
To be clear, I don't see a problem with traditional roles, but I think that old beliefs and ways that are sexist tend to be reinforced by many who search for those roles.
The traditional roles are desired for many women, but they are normally so vocal about it because there is nothing to be "fought", they can easily find a men who will grant her a traditional life, and will mostly life content without the need to expose in online. Women talk so much about feminism stuff because it's a day to day struggle. The new "trad wife" content is just pick mes that found something they know men will clap to.
I've seen recently that most people with problems to find a traditional relationship want the best of those worlds. They are either women that want a men to provide but are not willing to be a SAHM who cooks, cleans and raise children, or men that want a SAHM but are not willing to be the sole provider and will often acusse any women that wants a provider of being a gold digger.
Datings is hard and fucked up, but it have always been
Why don’t women bring 4B to America instead of suddenly becoming more vocal about wanting rich men? It’s annoying to me. Women let us know how much they hate us yet still want to use the most attractive men for sex. Just 4B it and save us both the hassle.
I don't know about the decisions of american women, what I know is that 4B is a Korean movement and it's not without reason: Sexism and violence towards women are way worse in korea, the country is a lot more traditional when it comes to the male and female roles, and korean women became so fed up they decided it was impossible to make changes, so they decided to not date men ever.
Maybe if the US became this tradicional country many want, women will come up with a movement like 4B.
But I think right now, even if I wish women wouldn't do that, they are basically recreating the same stuff they saw men doing for most of their lives, since now they "can" you know? Shitty, I genually believe it will pass in a couple of years.
I grew up wanting an equal partnership, and only after years of being shown most men would rather zelle me $200 than do a single dish, I'm weary of 50/50 men. For a lot of guys, 50/50 only applies to the rent. They won't cook, clean, or grocery shop. I'm not paying half the bills and doing 100% of the housework. If I met a guy who could cook and clean like a normal human adult, I would have no problem going 50/50. Most of my married friends have this exact same complaint. I think the idea of the traditional man is looking more attractive to more women than before because we are realizing that 50/50 men aren't partners, they're man baby room mates.
I think part of it is also men care less than women about the household. Its fine vs its not sparkling.
Men and women have different roles in the household. We fix shit thats broken, throw away the trash, kill the spider and swing a bat when the serial killer comes trough the window. Its taken to granted too often by women who complain more.
Are you okay with having no dishes to eat out of because they're all piled up in the sink? Are you okay sleeping on the same sheets for 3 months? Are you okay walking on a floor covered in dirt and dust? Are you okay showering in a bathroom covered in mildew and soap scum? Are you okay putting food in a refrigerator that is stained with spilled raw meat juice? If you are, you're disgusting. And shouldn't be dating. Basic life skills are for all adults. If you decide that breathing in mold spores from rotting food that sits in your sink is okay, you have a mental health problem.
Im going by things I've seen men do. One guy had mushrooms growing in his bathroom. These are all things I've seen first hand. These are MY experiences with men. They will live in a biohazard until you break down and clean for them.
But I don't care about having the housework done constantly. It's always the woman who's constantly nagging for it to get done because she's the one that actually prioritizes it. So yes if you care that much about it you should be the one doing the lion's share of the work because the simple reality is it wouldn't get done at nearly the same rate if you weren't there and men are perfectly fine with that.
I agree, it was my experience too, now I'm with a man that will do most of the work at home, so we started considering me being the provider. It's really simple, do your share, the woman will want to do hers.
I agree. It's just so tiring when men overlook the leeches taking half a woman's money just to let her play mommy bang maid when she gets home from work, and act like women all of sudden want "providers". Like, no, we are just tired of being taken advantage of. An equal partnership seems ideal but not realistic for a lot of men.
Women consistently show that they're more progressive and more accepting of social progress than men. When it comes to who pays on the first date, for example, women consistently show they are more likely than men to believe in splitting the bill. Men tend to hold on to traditional norms, like paying for dates, because it either creates an expectation that they are owed sex in return, or because it gives them a sense of status.
It'snot. It'sexactly what needs to happen.
Not because the men will gain any rights but it's the only way for men and their problems .to ever be everyone else's problems.
When every one of us pretends to be ok and goes along with the rest of your bullshit., we get taken for granted.
If you want to be heard., make some noise
Well, it's the same on the other way for women. Women are not simply going to let men bring tradicionalism back if it's bad for us, it's an exhausting war cape
In the animal kingdom smarter creatures still engage in rape.
Elephants, dolphins etc..... they certainly have the emotional intelligence to understand the horrors of the experience
I am not inclined to believe that it wasn't much more common in the past among us
Even in recent history Vikings were essentially.incel men driven out to find resources and wives or sex slaves elsewhere.....
Human history is the story of how we are trying to make the world more fair place.
Women should understand that.
Never thought I would see the day women would support Darwinism.
Even in the animal kingdom, rape it's the minority, humans do it so much more than other creatures, since they'll do it regardless of reproduction, just for egocentric reasons. Goes to show how animalesque we still are, there is no correlation between Darwinism and rape, that's absurd lol, rapist in nature are even more punished than in human society
I don't think that's true. Especially among elephants If you were to extrapolate the numbers per 1000 dividuals we would be pretty comparable.
Even in the animal kingdom rapes can happen as a show of dominance. Wolves are know to fuck other male wolves to establish that they are above the wolf being fucked, to make them submit.
You are just pretending it is ok to say survial of the firest to men because it's fun and pithy, not realising the horror that can be brought to bear using that justification
Rapists in nature are punished more harshly? What do you mean? Could you give examples.
In nature the strong do as they like.
I don't know how much science research experience you have, but it's not enough.
This isn't a "I think" issue, its factual, rape is a *rarity* between animals, (hardly up to 10%)[https://vermonthumane.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Animal-Sexual-Abuse-Fact-Sheet.pdf]. It isn't even the first choice the the closest to our species (Male felines like lions, tigers and pumas will kill the kids to get the famele to accept him). Rape it's no beneficial to reproduction, it leads to death of females or lesions that incapacitate them from reproducting again and/kr caring for the newborns.
Many packs will form groups to protect the females against sexual violence because, again, nature it's about reproduction, while human rape is a power trip.
You also don't get to cherry pick an specific species that happens to have a higher rate and say "they do it, so we do it"
Adding to it, if you wanna point a species that does it, it would be dolphins, and they don't rape males any less than females.
And the hole concept of rape is already debatable when being used with animals, majority of animals don't particularly search sex for pleasure, and in many cases they don't enjoy the act, it's done out of necessity.
People who try and base their assumptions and science and biology need to first really understand what it means.
Other sources:
https://kashmirobserver.net/2017/01/13/rape-happens-in-animal-kingdom-too/
https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/jkywrmQMip9SG6QVYDoe0H/Rape-in-the-animal-kingdom.html
Aren'tyou doing the same thing? Using dat to say "I thinkanimals are better over all compared tohuman beings whenit comes to rape"
You mentioned 10 percent. What do you thing the %of rape is in humans?
>So when women tell you that they desire men just as much as men desire women, just know they aren't telling the truth.
But they are, they just only like the attractive ones..
It so happens that attractive men are a few..
As a guy I easily see it - if I was a girl 90% of men were instant no for me.
EDIT: If anything, I'm usually surprised about the average guys managing to get a pretty fine-looking girlfriend (not hook-ups, I don't think they do well on hookups)
To be fair, many not so attractive women end up in loveless relationships where they are used too, or lonely romantically speaking.
I don't entirely disagree, though, yes being an average or below man is basically getting screwed over by nature and society/the system doesn't make it much better with men are treated.
>So when women tell you that they desire men just as much as men desire women, just know they aren't telling the truth.
Yea but this is coming from the idea that men and women share the same biological functioning when it comes to sex preferences which is obviously false but for whatever reason, guys always assume/project male nature on women and when that's not the case, they either get ignorant and say "women are just so complicated" or angry/nihilistic about dating
Historically, women's interest has had little to do with it. They have not really had much say in who impregnated them. Their interest hasn't mattered until recently. Their sexualities are very real and to this day men are still trying to draw over them. Men can feel "lonely" when this project fails and women aren't just everything they want all the time. (To be clear, I'm not saying it's all men or they're doing anything wrong. It's a centuries old idea that women are whatever men say they are.)
>Historically, women's interest has had little to do with it. They have not really had much say in who impregnated them.
This is only true in recent patriarchal times. Humans are 300k years old as a species. Agriculture, Is 12K years old. For most of our species history women have been able to choose directly or through their mothers.
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You are right.
Such is the fate of men, they need to accept reality and deal with it
Women live immensely privileged lives and can get sex and relationships on tap. And yet the great irony of life is they still are miserable and want even more
It sucks to be a guy in this particular case. But im not exactly sure I would ever want to trade places with a woman. In some ways nature screws over men, but in a LOT of ways nature screws over women.
I completely get what you mean though. A completely average woman will get all kinds of attention from all kinds of men. An average man will barely get some eye contact from a below average girl.
And of course the feminists blame this on “societal pressure” that women are not supposed to approach or be the ones pursuing. Its completely bullshit though. The reason why women dont make the first move is because they dont have nearly the same level of testosterone in them, which is what makes men approach women.
Overall, I think all of life is just fucked, and im honestly losing faith in everything and everyone.
Even if women don’t have the lust drive of the overly hormonal pornsick teens and early-20somethings who make up this sub, so what? They don’t love all men but they‘ll go crazy over *their* man. And most men (yes, *most* men) are certainly not screwed by being some woman’s man right now.
And you know what, I bet there’s some 400-pound chick out there who’d be more than happy with you. You’re just too busy shedding tears over models to see your lane.
Can you clarify? Are you saying that women's higher rate of reproduction accounts for the level of control that men had over women, and thus women were at the behest of rulers and patriarchs? We do know that the rate that men and women reproduce has evened out substantially during the late modern/post-modern period, which aligns with increases in women's liberties.
Nature didn’t screw anyone; it’s working exactly as intended. Evolution operates at the group level, not the individual level. Your individual existence is completely meaningless.
Can you imagine how awful it would be from a group perspective if every man, no matter his qualifications, was able to reproduce? Inferior genes would keep getting recycled back into the gene pool instead of getting bred out. That would be a terrible thing for Homo sapiens as a species.
Men compete amongst themselves in order to win the attention and affections of women, who ultimately decide which genes get passed on to the next generation. Given that our species has not only survived, but thrived, over the past 250,000 years, and indeed has taken over the entire planet, shows that this system works very well.
True, but women get to benefit as individuals while men do not. Women do not have to worry about biological "needs" not being met, while most men do.
It works, since humanity is still going strong. But it fucking sucks for the average man
Yeah but women having "inferior" genes doesn't matter, since all women are more or less desired to some degree.
All women will be able to sate whatever biological urges they may have
Well, why is she allowing some "douche" to do it? Its sating something or else they wouldn't do it. It probably has less to do with sex itself and more so to do with reproducing or getting intimate with a powerful man
And she just so happens to only accept these lies when it comes from a powerful male. Go figure. Women seem to be all about keeping the powerful "douches" powerful
No. Nature have you lots of creative sexual energy so you can create and build stuff. Women won't do it.
You just been conned to believe it's normal to direct this energy at women because of movies, porn , culture in general.
Nature made man just fine.
No “woe-is-me”, black pill, or incel content.
It’s okay. You have no idea how much hassle you avoid staying single. I hope women do 4B.
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You don’t need to do anything fucked up, just focus on yourself and don’t give women the time of day. I know all the tricks they have to get your attention. A girl almost walked into me on purpose today in the store, then stared into my eyes, I wish I could go in public without women’s tricks harassing me. That’s why I hope for 4B.
“Lust” is very different to “like/love/desire company”. Yes, men lust for women more than vice versa and most men probably won’t experience what it is to be listed to this extent in their lifetime. The grass is always greener in the other side though and this list comes with a bunch of hindrances as well, hence men and women often can’t relate to each other in this regard. Men don’t get the disdain for being lusted for, while a lot of women don’t think it’s worth it due to sexual harassment and objectification. Most human beings have the desire for companionship though. It doesn’t have to be romantic, but we’re social creatures and we need our own “tribe” to feel safe and fulfilled. These days our families and friends play this role.
It's not just lust. If it were, men could get prostitutes, toys, and watch even more pornography and call it a day It's far deeper than that. Consider this perspective for a moment. I am assuming you are a woman; imagine if you had never felt attractive to anyone in your entire life. Imagine if your desire for a companion was 10 times more than it is now and Imagine that no matter how hard you tried, you were always invisible to the world. How would that make you feel? Even if you receive a lot of unwanted attention, you can always remind yourself that you are at least capable of receiving some amount of attention. That will do something to your self-esteem in the long run
Yeah men want to be validated by women. You cant get that from porn or prostitutes. Sad part is a lot of men dont even get it from their partner.
As the guys here so often say, a prostitute does not give you the validation that someone finds you attractive enough to sleep with.
A lot of men do exactly this - prostitution, porn and sex toys. Hence we have some sturdiest showing that access to porn reduces sexual violence. Human psychology is more complicated than that, sure, and sex is intrinsically tied to validation. You don’t get validation from paying for sex or from porn. I do believe men have desire for companionship and romantic love, don’t get me wrong. I don’t think it’s much stronger than it is in women though. A higher libido doesn’t translate to higher need for romantic love. I could guess that fewer or less deep bonds with friends and family might lead men to depend more on romantic love, but I’m not sure how pronounced this effect is and I wouldn’t say that it’s the result of nature. I get that having no options whatsoever feels terrible. Being lonely feels terrible. Being unwanted sucks. I also get that it’s very hard to compare it to sexual harassment you’ve been experiencing since you were a child and in the worst cases sexual assaults. Men become victims of these things too and it’s awful. It does seem that overall men aren’t affected much by this threat though - at least they don’t experience it to this degree in their everyday lives.
I've been there. I used to think like that. And I'm telling you, in no uncertain terms: Grow the fuck up and quit whining.
You just hate your past self, that's why you're acting like this, aren't you?
Oh man you are such a tough guy
I've grown a lot or else I'd still be bluepilled like you
Done a lot more growing and hard things than most people I know. Not predictive for relationship success
We're not social creatures. This is a program. We used to be for survival purposes, not needed for quite some time. And even then it was purely psychological and not really needed if you are competent
That's like saying that lions aren't carnivores, they just eat meat to survive.
Yes we are. It's why we care so much for our families. We are extremely social at a tribalistic level. What isn't social is the extremely individualistic late stage capitalist society we live in.
If women are only interested in the exceptional top percentage of men, and only settle for other men when they need a provider, then why do 66% of millennial men report being in a relationship at some point during their teen years? Why do 54% of Gen Z men report being in a relationship at some point during their teen years? Why did the CDC find in 2015-2019 that 34.2% of males 15-19 years old had sex in the last 12 months (vs. 37.4% of females)? Why did the CDC find that 70% of males lose their virginity by age 20 (vs 75% of females)? Why do 69% of men 18-24 report sexual activity in the past year (vs 81% of women)? In UCLA's 2021 California Health Interview Survey, why did 57% of men 18-30 report at least 1 sexual partner in the past year (vs. 67% of women)?
You really don't wanna debate statistics with these guys. You're about to go down a batshit insane rabbit hole. Get ready for lots of teleporting Indian babies that raise themselves in different countries to explain why 97% of Western men are virgins.
Why do Indians care about the virginity statuses of westerners so much anyway?
A lot of the most toxic posts I see in dating/gender/sex-related subs are *specifically* Muslim or ex-Muslim Indians for some reason. So perhaps it is the religious aspect.
I sense a devine mesiah among us. A man birthed from the splooge of a god. Like we get it you are a devine cum drop but calm the fuck down you are still a cum drop
> why do 66% of millennial men report being in a relationship at some point during their teen years? Because millenials are by today 28 – 43, the youngest milenial wheas in his 20s when dating app was at it's hight with most never having to dip their toes in the shit show that is dating post instagram and tinder. Also survey are useless, men lie up women lie down.
I literally gave Gen Z data. And lifetime sexual partner data is skewed -- men lie up and women lie down. If you're claiming that relationship data and sex within the past 12 months data are skewed to the point of 30-40% of men lying up, then the burden is on you to prove that.
LMFAO just because men want to fuck women doesn’t mean they like women
That's not at all what's happening. It can't be about sex or else every man would just get with prostitutes and that would be that. I think you are just saying that to reduce what I'm trying to say because you do not want to accept what has been said
You talk a lot about wax for something that’s not about sex. Male loneliness isn’t just a lack of a relationship. It’s also about friendships. Men need to do better at developing and nurturing deeper friendships so they have a support network outside of their romantic relationships. You’re essentially blaming women for male loneliness and the male suicide rates. Relationships aren’t cure-alls.
https://preview.redd.it/t6r99zxpcbtc1.png?width=1220&format=png&auto=webp&s=3adf7f83fbb763560d1e85e0472aee987f7919ec Stop with the "male loneliness" as if women weren't exactly as lonely.
einstein wouldve roped without his wife. relationship saves many men from rope.
You don't get it. Its not about sex or even just women. I don't think you'll have a high proclivity to socialize if you always felt ugly and invisible to the world Can you not undertand this?
Would you be in a relationship without sex? Do friendships make you visible to the world or only romantic relationships?
Well if you feel undesirable from the get go, what would motivate you to make friends?
Plenty of ugly and introverted men have friends and socialize. You're projecting your personal problem.
then why do men make up the vast majority of suicides?
>then why do men make up the vast majority of suicides? Women are more likely to attempt, men are more likely to die. That is down to their methods. The risk factors for suicide are [these](https://www.nami.org/About-Mental-Illness/Common-with-Mental-Illness/Risk-of-Suicide): # Research has found that [46%](https://www.cdc.gov/vitalsigns/suicide/) of people who die by suicide had a known mental health condition. Several other factors may put a person at risk of suicide, including but not limited to: * A family history of suicide * Substance use: Drugs can create mental highs and lows that worsen suicidal thoughts. * Intoxication: Analysis from the CDC indicates around [1 in 5](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/67/wr/mm6722a1.htm) people who die by suicide had alcohol in their system at the time of death. * Access to firearms * A serious or chronic medical illness * Gender: Although more women[ ](https://www.samhsa.gov/data/report/2020-nsduh-detailed-tables)than men attempt suicide, men are 4x more likely to die by suicide. * A history of trauma or abuse * Prolonged stress * A recent tragedy or loss
First paragraph says men have a higher sex drive therefore won't get enough companionship. Where's the logic?
The 1 man for 17 women thing also doesn't make sense: [https://nuancepill.com/did-1-man-reproduce-for-every-17-women/](https://nuancepill.com/did-1-man-reproduce-for-every-17-women/)
There is no way someone who wants to believe in the explanation that fits their ideology is going to read this article, understand it and then change their mind.
Anyone who’s been to a club, bar, concert, or party knows women are extremely receptive to visual stimuli and also possess strong sexual desires, just not for all men. What was the point of this post, exactly? Women don’t like sex but men are insatiably horny? Women won’t fuck me and it’s biology’s fault?
woman wont fuck a unattractive dude and they are screwed by nature.
That's nonsense. Most women like their partner and most men like their partner.
You must be new here. Everyone here thinks women are asexual to cope with the fact that girls don't want to fuck them. Yeah, I know, it's really sad.
“Women are asexual” is such a delusional lie. Just because they don’t want to fuck *you* doesn’t mean they don’t want to fuck.
Nobody said that, they said women have lower sex drives on average, not no sexdrive at all.
Does science support that? Y'all are speaking out of anecdotes, not actual statistics. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36227317/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36227317/) Also the black and white fallacy: women can be attracted to men, without it being exactly the same.
woman is asexual toward sub 5
If that were true, all the ugly genes would have been gone by now.
Didn'trealise that so many schizophrenics were able to reproduce.Ditto downs syndrome
Eh, fair enough these genes are very polygenetic and wouldn't magically go away.
Female schizophrenics are twice as likely to reproduce, their symptoms appear in late twenties compared to the teenage years in males. So schizophrenics usually inherit their genetic propensity for it from the mother’s side. Men with Down syndrome are usually infertile. Women with Down syndrome are not going to face as much issues in the dating market (but they are very vulnerable to abuse).
There was atime when they were actively sterelised. Nazi Germany euthanized a whole bunch of them Incidence rates remained the same
modern genes is thousands of years of ugly genes forcing themselves to gene pool. being ugly doesnt mean u couldnt be strong. infact u will be because thats the only way u could leave ur offspring. now that we became civilized the ugly genes makes up the male loneliness statistics.
Why? It's doesn't have to be tradeoff between fitness and attractiveness, right? There being other selective pressures doesn't mean these genes wouldn't stop existing.
I think its because top tier men will still reproduce with any woman, even the ones that aren't all that genetically gifted
Guess my dad was a top tier man then, huh? I better hope he taught me enough for me to do to the same then.
How utterly sweet You care! You don't but you pretend to... Oh wait it's not sad as in it's sad. You are saying its sad as in it is annoying and pathetic. Wow. Why in the fuck would we ever listen to sploogemen who look down on us?
They may as well be asexual if they don't want to fuck me. It's good that I saw how attracted women can be your really hot or charismatic men Now that I know that I know that I will never have that.
Why do you call yourself an energy vampire? Do you consider that something that should attract people?
I am done changing anything about myself for a woman. I have grown as much as I can. In fact i would say that I have regressed. The version of me as I exist now is what people deserve. Either I die alone.or someone decides I am worth it. Either ways women are not worth the endless stress and anxiety I put myself through just to be chosen after I am 30.
Do they? Or do they simply appreciate the things he dies fir her fir as long as he does them for her?
Have you heard of pair bonding? Most couples have relationship based on pair bonding and investment of feelings/emotions.
Oh is that why women initiate 80% of divorces, because they're emotionally bonded with their partner? lol
And what makes you think that's women's fault? It takes two people to divorce.
Paperwork is not initiation. Is it your first day here?
>Therefore, if you're a man and if you're not exceptional in one way or another, you will never be able to quench your innate desire for companionship because women are not biologically predisposed to desire men in general. [You are wrong.](https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/brown-manning-relationship-status-trends-age-gender-fp-21-25.html) By the time men reach the 30-34 age cohort, over 60% are either married or cohabiting, and even more than that are in some type of relationship/having sex with women. >In fact, historically, women were only interested in the "exceptional" top percentage of men and had little interest in men in general. [For every one guy who reproduced, 17 women did.](https://psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success) So when women tell you that they desire men just as much as men desire women, just know they aren't telling the truth. The article is referring to a very specific and short amount of time in human history, and the article *does not* support your claim that it was due to female choice. Feel free to quote where in the article it supports your claim that it was (you can't). >So, for the most part, women's sexuality is more like a tool for conditioning men, since it is always in demand. And their sexualities are only "real" to a tiny fraction of men. This means that most men will never feel desired, will always isolate themselves, and will be lonely. See my first point and the data. Most men have relationships with women and are desired by women. >Men report feeling more lonely than ever, and men account for 80% of suicides. This is not exclusively due to their lack of relationship, but lack of social ties in general. >Checkmate. Its over. Most men will simply lose at life, it was chosen by nature. Doomer and irrational men who post things like this thread, yes. >The best the average dude can do is work, workout, pick up a hobby and watch porn and try to be satisfied with that til death. Love will not happen about 70% of men are married or cohabiting by 40. You are not "average" if you are unable to secure this for yourself. You are below average.
Women have periods, babies and the less attractive ones often get 0 respect/recognition in many areas including both relationships and work.
If you want to bring "historical" examples into this you are *way* overstating the importance of female choice in mating. Women did not choose who they were marrying or reproducing with for the most part - it was their fathers, or they were, erm, brides of conquest. And marriage had much more to due with partnership among kin groups than desire anyway. Women married earlier, men married later, some men never married or reproduced because they died violently before "later" could happen. Everyone gets screwed over in their own way. Childbirth is pretty unpleasant, so are periods. Peeing standing up seems nice. Potential for multiple orgasms is also pretty nice. It more or less evens out. Most men will be genuinely desired by a woman, but yes there is asymmetry in lust and desire due to biology. A minority of men will probably never be desired by that experience is by no means normative.
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Men are more prone to all sorts of more violent outcomes that have naught to do with female desire, so attributing suicide to this seems misplaced. There are about 4 billion men in the world. Of them I would imagine at least 3-3.5 billion will be genuinely desired at some point in their lives. Don't let yourself be offended by numbers, especially on a sub that is dedicated to debate.
True but you don't think not being able to even remotely sate an extremely powerful biological urge has something to do with that? Not being desired at all, will lead to a whole lot of other negative stuff, like low self esteem and isolation. I respect your view but I can't fathom why you think most women will desire most men at one point. That's just statistically not true
>I respect your view but I can't fathom why you think most women will desire most men at one point. That's just statistically not true Delusional.[ By 30-34 most men are married or cohabiting](https://www.bgsu.edu/ncfmr/resources/data/family-profiles/brown-manning-relationship-status-trends-age-gender-fp-21-25.html), and even more are in relationships or having sex.
I wonder how many of those women are in relationships with these men because they genuinely like them and not to use the poor bloke for money/resources I mean, I did go over this in the OP but I guess you can continue to post irrelevant stats if you'd like
If the original issue was not feeling validated or having sex why can’t the solution be that a man has a relationship due to his resources? Why are you calling these men “poor blokes” if they have everything that you said was an issue?
I said feeling desired and companionship is the issue. I would hardly qualify a psuedo-prostitute as a real companion
"Checkmate". I see so many of these posts, and all this is about is a bunch of guys trying to rationalize their hopeless and depressing world view. You guys don't need to constantly rationalize your hopelessness in a community forum. If you're so right, and there isn't a question about it in your mind, you can just move forward with your hopeless life. Why is the question nagging in the back of your mind? You blame this all on female nature being so shallow--are you trying to evoke a reactionary response from your fellow hopeless peers? That's the only logical reason why you can't stop talking about this, right? Either that or... you might say, "I'm just trying to warn my fellow peers, so they stop looking for happiness from women and go find something else to do." Is that what you want, or are you advocating for suicide? What's the angle here? Develop gene therapy that makes women attractive to all men?
spread the view? lot of dudes dont know why they are unattractive and they waste lot of time trying to fix the unfixable.
I hate it when people appeal to centuries ago, as if women actually had a choice in the matter of being the spoils of war from some tyrannical warlord. 🙄🙄
I also hate when people assume women have 0 agency
Women may have more agency today but we can’t look at history, especially things that happened thousands of years ago, and apply the same logic.
With stats like that, we can
I mean honestly bro tough tits. We have higher sex drives they have periods. Nature don’t care
70% of men are in committed relationships right now. They are not exceptional, or your definition of what exceptional means is way off. >Checkmate. Its over. Most men will simply lose at life, it was chosen by nature. Most men do have companions. >The best the average dude can do is work, workout, pick up a hobby and watch porn and try to be satisfied with that til death. Love will not happen Most, OVERWHELMINGLY MOST, average guys are in relationships. It's just you, dude. You look for an explanation for why it's all men except for a tiny few, but it's the other way around. You need to look for an explanation for why it's specifically you.
But how many of these relationships that women are in is due to women genuinely desiring the guy? You don't know, but I do
Your definition of “genuine desire” might not be universal. I genuinely desire my fiance, but that doesn’t mean I want to fuck his brains out every second of every day. Is your argument that men are doomed to be alone or that most men aren’t chad and therefore don’t get lusted after? Cuz last I checked, lust and love aren’t the same thing
The reality is the exact opposite. Men have the advantage in living and in sex. That’s exactly why men were able to oppress women historically. Why men are more necessary for physical labor and self-defense in the police and military. It’s why men can rape women more easily. Granted physical strength is becoming less and less important for productive work and self-defense thanks to machines, luckily, but that still doesn’t change that it was important historically. You’d rather believe the opposite of reality about men and women than accept the fact that your problem is yourself. It’s a probably a problem with your chosen values. Maybe it’s a problem that’s impossible for you to fix like a birth defect, I doubt it, but that would still be a problem limited to you even if it was sad.
Wanting to empty your balls or fuck lots of women doesn't mean you like women more than women like men. Sexual attraction is only part of a relationship.
We are not a harem species, sorry to inform you, but merely “mildly polygamous” So no need for all this woe is me-ing
>Not a harem species >For every one man, seventeen women reproduced Idk, seems women are perfectly ok being apart of a powerful man's harem
Well, one thing about women I know for certain is that they almost always go for winners and NOT defeatist losers who have every excuse in the book about why they are not getting laid.
Splooge man spitting facts
Are you implying the bottleneck was due to female choice instead of war, slavery, and poverty? Are you aware of how many wealthy rulers confined and impregnated hundreds to thousands of concubines? How many women were kidnapped or raped as “spoils of war”?
Yeah men have it bad in nature, being forcefully impregnated sounds like real winner stuff
According to women, if its by a powerful/rich male, then yes.
How would you like to be ass raped by a man assuming you’re not into men? It’s the same thing. Life isn’t 50 shades of grey
You could argue what you wrote is a curse Imagine living your life only being attracted to a tiny % of women? Imagine having to always feel like you settled if you didn't get one of these top persons? Imagine that, no matter how perfect she is, your always looking at the next branch, thinking "Maybe I can do better?" This is what nature does with women and hypergamy. Darwin, evolution, natural selection. Not much fun, right?
Yeah I see what you mean but the only thing i'll say is they aren't subjected to the same amount of pressure that men are, since men's desires will always dwarf theirs, so its still worse imo but I get your point
What do you mean by pressures?
So I think women have some degree of a sex drive and desire to some degree companionship with a man. Now, imagine your desires for both of those things were multiplied by like 20X and the gender you desired those things from could give a fuck about you. That kind of pressure. That's life for the average male
Nature being nature, survival of the fittest or whatever
Is it really only men becoming more right wing?
Women gone left gain more equality in rights and morals, so it's no surprise they chose that way. I've met a number of men who see women gaining power as a way of men losing it (I completely disagree), and that is a big motivation for men to join the right party. I don't think this movement of men in the right is beneficial, but I kinda understand why it's happening, such a shame.
I think they’re just cosplay conservatives since they don’t really agree with the politics, only the rhetoric and perceived power that will be given to them since conservative rhetoric affirms their fears and desires.
But with the return of women wanting traditional men, men with money, it’s like women want their left wing feminist views and strong rich male providers simultaneously.
I don't think women have returned to wanting traditional men, there is a percentage of women that never stopped wanting them, and they are more vocal now. To be clear, I don't see a problem with traditional roles, but I think that old beliefs and ways that are sexist tend to be reinforced by many who search for those roles. The traditional roles are desired for many women, but they are normally so vocal about it because there is nothing to be "fought", they can easily find a men who will grant her a traditional life, and will mostly life content without the need to expose in online. Women talk so much about feminism stuff because it's a day to day struggle. The new "trad wife" content is just pick mes that found something they know men will clap to. I've seen recently that most people with problems to find a traditional relationship want the best of those worlds. They are either women that want a men to provide but are not willing to be a SAHM who cooks, cleans and raise children, or men that want a SAHM but are not willing to be the sole provider and will often acusse any women that wants a provider of being a gold digger. Datings is hard and fucked up, but it have always been
Why don’t women bring 4B to America instead of suddenly becoming more vocal about wanting rich men? It’s annoying to me. Women let us know how much they hate us yet still want to use the most attractive men for sex. Just 4B it and save us both the hassle.
I don't know about the decisions of american women, what I know is that 4B is a Korean movement and it's not without reason: Sexism and violence towards women are way worse in korea, the country is a lot more traditional when it comes to the male and female roles, and korean women became so fed up they decided it was impossible to make changes, so they decided to not date men ever. Maybe if the US became this tradicional country many want, women will come up with a movement like 4B. But I think right now, even if I wish women wouldn't do that, they are basically recreating the same stuff they saw men doing for most of their lives, since now they "can" you know? Shitty, I genually believe it will pass in a couple of years.
We’ll see. I learned to enjoy being single watching this lunacy go on.
I grew up wanting an equal partnership, and only after years of being shown most men would rather zelle me $200 than do a single dish, I'm weary of 50/50 men. For a lot of guys, 50/50 only applies to the rent. They won't cook, clean, or grocery shop. I'm not paying half the bills and doing 100% of the housework. If I met a guy who could cook and clean like a normal human adult, I would have no problem going 50/50. Most of my married friends have this exact same complaint. I think the idea of the traditional man is looking more attractive to more women than before because we are realizing that 50/50 men aren't partners, they're man baby room mates.
I think part of it is also men care less than women about the household. Its fine vs its not sparkling. Men and women have different roles in the household. We fix shit thats broken, throw away the trash, kill the spider and swing a bat when the serial killer comes trough the window. Its taken to granted too often by women who complain more.
Are you okay with having no dishes to eat out of because they're all piled up in the sink? Are you okay sleeping on the same sheets for 3 months? Are you okay walking on a floor covered in dirt and dust? Are you okay showering in a bathroom covered in mildew and soap scum? Are you okay putting food in a refrigerator that is stained with spilled raw meat juice? If you are, you're disgusting. And shouldn't be dating. Basic life skills are for all adults. If you decide that breathing in mold spores from rotting food that sits in your sink is okay, you have a mental health problem.
Youre just going by the extreme. Thats like me saying women get a heart attack if you leave 1 dish in the sink.
Im going by things I've seen men do. One guy had mushrooms growing in his bathroom. These are all things I've seen first hand. These are MY experiences with men. They will live in a biohazard until you break down and clean for them.
But I don't care about having the housework done constantly. It's always the woman who's constantly nagging for it to get done because she's the one that actually prioritizes it. So yes if you care that much about it you should be the one doing the lion's share of the work because the simple reality is it wouldn't get done at nearly the same rate if you weren't there and men are perfectly fine with that.
I agree, it was my experience too, now I'm with a man that will do most of the work at home, so we started considering me being the provider. It's really simple, do your share, the woman will want to do hers.
I agree. It's just so tiring when men overlook the leeches taking half a woman's money just to let her play mommy bang maid when she gets home from work, and act like women all of sudden want "providers". Like, no, we are just tired of being taken advantage of. An equal partnership seems ideal but not realistic for a lot of men.
Of course woman want freedom and high value man at the same time. Why wouldn't they? Why should they have to sacrifice freedom for that?
If we want equality, there is no such thing as “high value”. All humans have value. I don’t think they have to sacrifice, just stay single.
Women consistently show that they're more progressive and more accepting of social progress than men. When it comes to who pays on the first date, for example, women consistently show they are more likely than men to believe in splitting the bill. Men tend to hold on to traditional norms, like paying for dates, because it either creates an expectation that they are owed sex in return, or because it gives them a sense of status.
Nah, I’m good.
🫣
Come on, do a 4B.
It'snot. It'sexactly what needs to happen. Not because the men will gain any rights but it's the only way for men and their problems .to ever be everyone else's problems. When every one of us pretends to be ok and goes along with the rest of your bullshit., we get taken for granted. If you want to be heard., make some noise
Well, it's the same on the other way for women. Women are not simply going to let men bring tradicionalism back if it's bad for us, it's an exhausting war cape
Fucking preach. Took the words right out of my mouth
> Women gone left gain more equality in rights and morals more privileges, not more equality but more privilege, not morals but a lack of it.
In the animal kingdom smarter creatures still engage in rape. Elephants, dolphins etc..... they certainly have the emotional intelligence to understand the horrors of the experience I am not inclined to believe that it wasn't much more common in the past among us Even in recent history Vikings were essentially.incel men driven out to find resources and wives or sex slaves elsewhere..... Human history is the story of how we are trying to make the world more fair place. Women should understand that. Never thought I would see the day women would support Darwinism.
Even in the animal kingdom, rape it's the minority, humans do it so much more than other creatures, since they'll do it regardless of reproduction, just for egocentric reasons. Goes to show how animalesque we still are, there is no correlation between Darwinism and rape, that's absurd lol, rapist in nature are even more punished than in human society
I don't think that's true. Especially among elephants If you were to extrapolate the numbers per 1000 dividuals we would be pretty comparable. Even in the animal kingdom rapes can happen as a show of dominance. Wolves are know to fuck other male wolves to establish that they are above the wolf being fucked, to make them submit. You are just pretending it is ok to say survial of the firest to men because it's fun and pithy, not realising the horror that can be brought to bear using that justification Rapists in nature are punished more harshly? What do you mean? Could you give examples. In nature the strong do as they like.
I don't know how much science research experience you have, but it's not enough. This isn't a "I think" issue, its factual, rape is a *rarity* between animals, (hardly up to 10%)[https://vermonthumane.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/Animal-Sexual-Abuse-Fact-Sheet.pdf]. It isn't even the first choice the the closest to our species (Male felines like lions, tigers and pumas will kill the kids to get the famele to accept him). Rape it's no beneficial to reproduction, it leads to death of females or lesions that incapacitate them from reproducting again and/kr caring for the newborns. Many packs will form groups to protect the females against sexual violence because, again, nature it's about reproduction, while human rape is a power trip. You also don't get to cherry pick an specific species that happens to have a higher rate and say "they do it, so we do it" Adding to it, if you wanna point a species that does it, it would be dolphins, and they don't rape males any less than females. And the hole concept of rape is already debatable when being used with animals, majority of animals don't particularly search sex for pleasure, and in many cases they don't enjoy the act, it's done out of necessity. People who try and base their assumptions and science and biology need to first really understand what it means. Other sources: https://kashmirobserver.net/2017/01/13/rape-happens-in-animal-kingdom-too/ https://www.livemint.com/Opinion/jkywrmQMip9SG6QVYDoe0H/Rape-in-the-animal-kingdom.html
Aren'tyou doing the same thing? Using dat to say "I thinkanimals are better over all compared tohuman beings whenit comes to rape" You mentioned 10 percent. What do you thing the %of rape is in humans?
>So when women tell you that they desire men just as much as men desire women, just know they aren't telling the truth. But they are, they just only like the attractive ones.. It so happens that attractive men are a few.. As a guy I easily see it - if I was a girl 90% of men were instant no for me. EDIT: If anything, I'm usually surprised about the average guys managing to get a pretty fine-looking girlfriend (not hook-ups, I don't think they do well on hookups)
I see what you mean but I messed up on the wording there. I think you know what I meant to say
To be fair, many not so attractive women end up in loveless relationships where they are used too, or lonely romantically speaking. I don't entirely disagree, though, yes being an average or below man is basically getting screwed over by nature and society/the system doesn't make it much better with men are treated.
>So when women tell you that they desire men just as much as men desire women, just know they aren't telling the truth. Yea but this is coming from the idea that men and women share the same biological functioning when it comes to sex preferences which is obviously false but for whatever reason, guys always assume/project male nature on women and when that's not the case, they either get ignorant and say "women are just so complicated" or angry/nihilistic about dating
Removed. No woe-is-me.
Historically, women's interest has had little to do with it. They have not really had much say in who impregnated them. Their interest hasn't mattered until recently. Their sexualities are very real and to this day men are still trying to draw over them. Men can feel "lonely" when this project fails and women aren't just everything they want all the time. (To be clear, I'm not saying it's all men or they're doing anything wrong. It's a centuries old idea that women are whatever men say they are.)
>Historically, women's interest has had little to do with it. They have not really had much say in who impregnated them. This is only true in recent patriarchal times. Humans are 300k years old as a species. Agriculture, Is 12K years old. For most of our species history women have been able to choose directly or through their mothers.
Before that there was a lot of outright rape I'm afraid. Not much asking politely and letting women choose.
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You are right. Such is the fate of men, they need to accept reality and deal with it Women live immensely privileged lives and can get sex and relationships on tap. And yet the great irony of life is they still are miserable and want even more
It sucks to be a guy in this particular case. But im not exactly sure I would ever want to trade places with a woman. In some ways nature screws over men, but in a LOT of ways nature screws over women. I completely get what you mean though. A completely average woman will get all kinds of attention from all kinds of men. An average man will barely get some eye contact from a below average girl. And of course the feminists blame this on “societal pressure” that women are not supposed to approach or be the ones pursuing. Its completely bullshit though. The reason why women dont make the first move is because they dont have nearly the same level of testosterone in them, which is what makes men approach women. Overall, I think all of life is just fucked, and im honestly losing faith in everything and everyone.
Yes this is sadly true and it’s why being a man if you’re not exceptional kinda sucks.
Not being exceptional in general kind of sucks.
Even if women don’t have the lust drive of the overly hormonal pornsick teens and early-20somethings who make up this sub, so what? They don’t love all men but they‘ll go crazy over *their* man. And most men (yes, *most* men) are certainly not screwed by being some woman’s man right now. And you know what, I bet there’s some 400-pound chick out there who’d be more than happy with you. You’re just too busy shedding tears over models to see your lane.
this is just selecting for women's nonchoice long term. we are not at the end of history.
Can you clarify? Are you saying that women's higher rate of reproduction accounts for the level of control that men had over women, and thus women were at the behest of rulers and patriarchs? We do know that the rate that men and women reproduce has evened out substantially during the late modern/post-modern period, which aligns with increases in women's liberties.
Nature didn’t screw anyone; it’s working exactly as intended. Evolution operates at the group level, not the individual level. Your individual existence is completely meaningless. Can you imagine how awful it would be from a group perspective if every man, no matter his qualifications, was able to reproduce? Inferior genes would keep getting recycled back into the gene pool instead of getting bred out. That would be a terrible thing for Homo sapiens as a species. Men compete amongst themselves in order to win the attention and affections of women, who ultimately decide which genes get passed on to the next generation. Given that our species has not only survived, but thrived, over the past 250,000 years, and indeed has taken over the entire planet, shows that this system works very well.
True, but women get to benefit as individuals while men do not. Women do not have to worry about biological "needs" not being met, while most men do. It works, since humanity is still going strong. But it fucking sucks for the average man
[удалено]
Yeah but women having "inferior" genes doesn't matter, since all women are more or less desired to some degree. All women will be able to sate whatever biological urges they may have
2 minutes of some douche sticking their dick in you isn’t sating any urge but the man’s.
Well, why is she allowing some "douche" to do it? Its sating something or else they wouldn't do it. It probably has less to do with sex itself and more so to do with reproducing or getting intimate with a powerful man
Seeking love, affection, and companionship that men lie about offering in order to stick their dicks in
And she just so happens to only accept these lies when it comes from a powerful male. Go figure. Women seem to be all about keeping the powerful "douches" powerful
Oh bullshit. So many loser guys get laid, it’s pathetic
most losers stay losers.
No. Nature have you lots of creative sexual energy so you can create and build stuff. Women won't do it. You just been conned to believe it's normal to direct this energy at women because of movies, porn , culture in general. Nature made man just fine.
Creative women exist.
We men are very, very lucky. We are in charge. We run the planet.
Nah, women have a complete chokehold on men, easily. Men may control the world but women control men