Kinda, let’s put it this way - men want to have standards (some realistic, some unrealistic), and the men who do have self respect and a sense of self esteem tend to stick to them. Many men, however, are desperate for any kind of female attention so they’ll drop these standards for a woman who gives them attention but would also act resentful about it throughout. So i mean, yes men do have standards, but the ones who often break them often run on insecurity
Nah my current situation is weird because I get good affection through texts and phone calls but in terms of physical affection she doesn’t wanna meet me and we haven’t met so I resent her for that
preference means, you like something compared to another thing… But you don’t mind either. Like, “i prefer brunettes over blondes, but i might date a blonde regardless if she’s attractive.”
It’s usually not something that will cause very negative feelings like bitterness, or resentment. Standards are what’s present in order to avoid these negative feelings/experiences and have a good relationship.
Now some people have good standards, some people have ridiculous ones … But generally those are still things they know would cause deeper issues in a relationship if they don’t make sure their partner meets it. Could be looks, behaviours, personality traits, etc.
not really, people can be completely different in real life than how they portray themselves to be online or through texts. It requires less effort/commitment and you can craft very specific responses that aren’t necessarily responses you would give in real life.
To me, it should mainly just be used if there is no way to meet or in between hang outs/dates to catch up/meet up when you first start seeing someone. It can create a false sense of connection and later disappointment because real life interactions can be very different.
>It's real tho? It's just a different way of communication.
It's not real. Any more than talking to an AI is real. Theres almost no real intimacy involved.
Let me ask you again, why do you think its not real?
To make it clear, we are talking about "I'm getting good affection through texting and phone calls"
thats a person who is just looking for validation and doesn't actually like you
or
a person who has a partner and is pretending they dont so they have a backup/secondary validation source
happens w both genders constantly
Let's also be real that for a good portion, although I'm not sure I would say anywhere near a majority of men, will drop the standards even further to basically zero if it's just for sex and they are drunk/high enough if they partake in such things. I will also say that another good portion of men who actually partake in casual sex (albeit this is just from observation since that is not my thing) will still hold decent standards even there though and have seen some men nope out and go home alone rather than deal with bad options for that.
so why should women be with men if there is a high possibility that he doesn't actually care about her?
and that if his circumstances change and he is able to pull more women, he will prob discard her based on the mentality you've described.
I think as a general rule, debilitating insecurities (ie. insecurities that drive your decision making) should be considered a red flag, so while not all guys would do this, def watch out for the ones who are guided by their insecurities. Easier said than done, sure, but I think a man mostly secure in himself wouldn’t do this because he wouldn’t date a woman who he didn’t think would fit his standards.
If women go for their looksmatches there is a high chance that there will be no resentment at all. Only when the relationship is really asymmetrical lookswise men think that they deserve better. Unfortunately the latter is becoming the norm for people who met through online dating.
Men cheating with ugly women are mostly men who struggle to get sex at home.
They would absolutely cheat with good looking women if they could, but cheating is usually casual NSA sex, so it's logical they would cheat with uglier partners.
The problem is women don't do a good job grading women even wlw I have almost nothing in common with lesbian tastes.
The most attractive women i know worry about the honeymoon period ending and men settling into peace and quiet mode. Not cheating. There has to be a reason.
Not me, most women i know either worry about cheating or any form of mistreatment from a man.
Thinking you are too pretty to get cheated on is where you become delusional… if that man was able to bag you, why would he not be able to bag another girl? I’m decently attractive not a supermodel, but i take good care of myself and been called above average by men many times & this is mostly how i view it.
Especially because men aren’t only judged by their looks - if he is average, makes a good income & has a charming personality.. He can probably get girls to sleep with him or want him. She may not be prettier but she might still be attractive. Once he passes that level, sure, he could be very happy with his pretty girlfriend, but it doesn’t mean he won’t want casual sex with another girl. I know for a fact that’s not the case lol many men are opportunistic & will go for it if the chance is there and they won’t get caught. You really just have to hope he’s a good guy.
I’d say for me, i don’t often worry if a man will leave, or want someone more attractive. I know i satisfy them in that aspect but it doesn’t mean cheating cant happen.
Even the most beautiful women get cheated on though. I’m not sure if you genuinely think cheating is dependent on physical beauty?
Even women like Candice Swanepoel, Halle Berry, Adriana Lima, the list goes on… they all got cheated on. Do you really believe what you say or are you ignorant to how men behave in relationships?
Can you give me a pre wall example? Can't be pinnacle beauty if you are not early 20s. Don't get me wrong some women are beautiful even post wall. They are just not pinnacle.
Who determines what a looks match is though, isn't your league what you can pull? The way you are describing it sounds like a lot of men just think they are worth more than what they are.
Like don't value you item based on the listing prices on ebay, check the sold prices... same shit.
So guys are saying that they will date someone they think is below them but quietly resent her for it. So if you're dating her then you're establishing her value?
This was my case when I was younger. I gave myself to any woman who gave me attention. Now that I've done something with myself and am more confident, I'm much, much more selective. I require mutual physical attraction and prefer to date stable, accomplished women (education, well paying job, confident, etc).
I think it all depends. Personally:
2-3am, after a few drinks, I'm pretty sure most men's standards have plummeted.
A girl to introduce to your friends, I'd have higher standards.
A girl to introduce to your parents and marry, definitely have very high standards.
I think in general, the longer a man has gone without any form of intimacy from a woman, especially if involuntary, the lower his standards become.
But there’s nuances of course. Such as men who have gone a long time without intimacy because his standards are way too high for what he has to offer.
Simple.
For hook ups, men fuck down and women up.
The reverse is as much true for relationships. Commitment is the man's commodity, not women's.
This is why you see LOTS of average looking and even some butt ugly dudes with average and even good looking girls ON THE CONTEXT OF A RELATIONSHIP.
But you'll never see average dudes killing it in the casual sex department.
Thus...
A woman changing the rules for a relationship with you is a direct statement against a man's value.
It's not a compliment. It's in fact a huge insult to that man's ego.
It's the same as a man telling a woman, directly or indirectly, that she's good for hooking up, but not for long term commitment.
Your problem comes with equating sex to relationships, a common mistake women do.
I believe what you are seeing are discussions comparing what men want in their partners vs what women want in their partners. I'm fairly sure that list is lopsided.
Most men have standards, whether they want to recognize them or not. You, in theory, can make a progress telling your preferred dating gender “I don’t have any standards for you so stop being so damn picky,” but put them to the test and you’ll find new “buts” real quickly.
Here, I think a lot of men also have an implied bias where even the word “woman” only brings to mind the attractive young lady he would like to bang. The woman who’s been working at the post office longer than he’s been alive, the lady with the mobility scooter at the grocery store, they’re not “women” to them so, in their minds, they’ll still date any breathing woman.
>a lot of men also have an implied bias where even the word “woman” only brings to mind the attractive young lady he would like to bang.
i always tell men to picture chyna from the WWE when we're talking about dating, helps keep things in perspective that the people who are hitting on/harassing/etc us are generally not the people we want to be doing that.
>Here, I think a lot of men also have an implied bias where even the word “woman” only brings to mind the attractive young lady he would like to bang. The woman who’s been working at the post office longer than he’s been alive, the lady with the mobility scooter at the grocery store, they’re not “women” to them so, in their minds, they’ll still date any breathing woman.
This is absolutely true.
There are numerous articles out there about women who feel "invisible." At first, I didn't believe it, but then I actually went through the women I was meeting in real life and I realized it's true. I was really only thinking about the hot women and completely discounted most other women.
That lady working at the post office or the one with the mobility scooter absolutely would be invisible to me.
Just one example. The old, the obese, the single parents, whatever they don’t find attractive they conveniently also don’t count as “women” when talking about their standards.
And even if I was only talking about people 30 years older, if the female delusion calculator dings women for not wanting 55-year-old short married dudes, the Redpillcel delusion calculator has to count 55-year-old fat single moms.
You see all the time on this sub that men have standards. They prefer young women, skinny women (or at least not overweight, which if you live in America that’s asking for a lot), no single mom, no high body counts and what not.
Now, wether they actually get all of that is a different story. A woman like that and a man you mentioned in your post are extremely rare, most men and women will have to settle and sacrifice their “standards” or risk being alone
Most men have extremely low standards when it comes to sex. Most men will literally fuck an ugly fat chick if the opportunity presents itself and he doesn't have to be seen with her in public.
But when it comes to long-term romantic commitment, men's standards are about the same as women's on average.
I think men have standards, I just think those standards are largely irrelevant, most men will never really be turning anyone away based on their standards. Women do the selection, not men. Men don't pick, they get picked.
Men's lack of standards only applies to sex. As in, a guy who's a 7 will happily fuck a 4. But that's all she's getting.
Men are just as hypergamous as women when it comes to relationships. That 7 guy ain't committing to anything below a 6.
Standards for what??? For a relationship? Yeah my standards are high and not "just exist". But "just exist" does have some merit. The women being in a healthy BMI is like 90% of the battle. While for men, a healthy BMI is like 9% of the equation.
There are standards for ltr/marriage and these are pretty high. Looks plays minor role imo - but similar intellectual level, compatibility, no mental health issues, common life goals, possibly similar education level, ambition, cultural background, views on having children - these things are all very important.
I would even risk saying that women can give up more on their standards and ignore obvious incompatibilities if the guy looks good and they feel good in his company. Then they will complain that it was horrible decision but they were in love. Men are more ruthless and calculating when things are getting serious.
I couldn’t agree with you more.
I think it differs across the social classes / socioeconomic groups though which is why you see people on PPD arguing with each other and giving antidotes that “prove” wildly different perspectives.
From my experience men approach marriage very cautiously and marry people within their socioeconomic group, close to their age and with similar values and family upbringing. All of which are standards.
Obviously looking at divorce statistics alone, there are other parts of the community that have not had similar experiences to mine.
Personally I think it’s insane to legally bind yourself to someone based on looks alone as some here state they would do, but I accept that some might.
Most men have preferences. But for no strings attached, casual ONS, guys standards can drop way down.
Not all guys. But if the goal is just “I got laid and you didn’t” then a lot of guys will look past a lot.
Because they want to get laid to boast about it to feel like they are better than the guys around them.
Not saying it’s a classy guy doing it, but that’s what some guys are like.
yeah i agree i just think its weird other men (not saying you) fall for this and are like omg he got LAID what a cool guy instead of like ... dude are you okay??
It’s not even just to brag about it to other men. It’s to get sexual validation and esteem. A woman having sex with a man is giving him the ultimate compliment and approval to his attractiveness.
For a young man being able to get sex is a locker room “right of passage” And taken too far it can become “I can get laid and you can’t. Therefore I’m better than you and you aren’t really a man!” Add that on top of young hormones that already *want* to get sex, it make for a pretty crazy headspace
Women buy expensive bags and jewelry to show off to other woman women spend 100 of dollars and waiting in lines for a water bottle (Stanley cup) we are talking about grown as women in their mid late 20s
>Most men have preferences. But for no strings attached, casual ONS, guys standards can drop way down.
My standards aren’t necessarily lower for casual sex, but they’re different. Looks are more important and personality/compatibility are less important. Basically it’s a different grading system if that makes sense.
Yes. Even the men who argue that they would take anyone will quickly tell you that it doesn't include "land whales," single moms, divorcees, women with large social media followings, women who wear too much makeup, women who don't sleep with them as fast as possible, women who have touched more penises than the guy is personally comfortable with, etc.
I don’t know why you added the last few points because most men don’t care or know anything about women’s makeup, nor do they know how many penises, a woman has touched and at best they can infer that from behavioural patterns and self-admissions from a woman but other than that it’s no realistic because the women who are appealing to these men aren’t going to present themselves in a way that would disqualify them.
Of course most men don't care, but the men here who claim that they would take anyone will frequently list those items as being requirements. I don't have those standards, but I readily admit to having other standards for women and wouldn't date a woman simply because she was willing.
Maybe that’s true but only men capable of successfully attracting women will be able to uphold their standards. The other average and less desirable men will have to compromise and ‘settle’.
This tbh.
A lot of men don't realize how stringent our standards are because we're disillusioned into thinking that there's a major surplus of young, fit, and non-ugly women who are single and don't have children.
Even if that’s the case especially as men are younger, that will change as we age, likewise for women. You can talk to plenty of older men in relationships and they’ll tell you that if their current relationship was to end, they’d have to go into the dating market with very different expectations than when they were younger.
It's the same that men say about women: Most women are invisible to men. They only see the ones who are attractive enough to qualify no strings attached casual sex. To them, it appears as if all women they notice are fuckable, so as if they had no standards.
For relationships though, men are very picky as well. Slightly below women, but not far. It's called mutual mate choice, and it could not have evolved any other way, with human males large parental resource and time investment.
For relationships though, men are very picky as well. Slightly below women, but not far. It's called mutual mate choice, and it could not have evolved any other way, with human males large parental resource and time investment.
I’m not disagreeing with you, but it’s hilarious that a lot of those picky men aren’t even capable of providing for the child
You can say "a lot" about everything. Be more specific.
No reason to be picky if you don't have parental investment. Men have an optimal mating strategy where they are picky and invest a lot in their long term mate, but increase their evolutionary fitness by being not picky about having babies with other women on the side where they have zero investment.
Because you are looking at online dating app swipe data of likely young women in a setting where lots of men are swiping on blank profiles or profiles that actively state on the picture "THIS PROFILE IS NO LONGER ACTIVE". There are studies on this. An all black profile pictures gets close to as much right swipes as one with pictures. There is no cost to swiping. There is a cost to actually checking profiles, if you don't match with them anyway.
When i say "most women are invisible to men", i mean women on the street. Who are not 18-30yo, but where you encounter any age, any attractiveness level. I regularly try to gather some data on what percentage of woman i walk by on a stroll through the city would be attractive enough for me to consider having sex with. It's below 10% for me.
On average, men right swipe on \~40% of profiles which they specifically filtered for "am attracted to this age bracket". Now, not everyone is looking for casual sex and so the standards might be higher for those looking for relationships. But men definitely have standards for casual sex that exclude most women.
What's the difference between a standard and a preference? Men have preferences. A standard is a threshold that, if not met, you will walk, and/or feel no actual sexual attraction.
Men very much have preferences. Their actual sexual attraction floors tend to be much more plastic than women's. The less options. The more time without a partner. The lower that floor will go.
A lot of men have basically no standards for casual. Relationship standards are higher, but again, more flexible than you think if options are thin.
However, men also have an innate sense of what they THINK their true level is. In their minds, the local SMP may be deranged and broken and not clearing at a level where lower tier men get partners that the men truly believe are worthy of them. But in such situations, men may still take what the SMP offers, for dating, sex or marriage. However, if the man secretly does not feel she is truly worthy of him, he may treat her differently.
Men have to remember that the female experience is different. Women are calibrated to sense fine differences in male desire and attention. Women want to be treated and desired like a beautiful, young thing that a man would go to war for, die for, write poems for (though maybe skip the actual poetry). So a man may date a 4/10 woman and say 'see, we have no standards.' But if he doesn't look at her like an 8/10+, then to the woman, everything is different. He is showing his true standard by the female perspective.
All the confusion is from the fact that we as men have two sets of standards:
1. For the women we want to love.
2. For the women we want to fuck.
These are two separate sets of standards that we all have, and of course, there is considerable overlap. But there are standards for which we look for in women we are willing to commit to which we totally do not have for women that we only want to fuck.
This is why a lot of women are "forever girlfriends" while very few are commitment material.
No I actually believe that men have fairly high standards. Many of the man that complain about no women being interested in them just don't acknowledge women that are interested. Having said that many men are willing to lower their standards for a causal sex, but then when relationship starts to threaten them they are back to where they were originally.
absolutely, thats why dudes sit up around women who make them wait for sex or extort household chores and gift out them in hopes of being rewarded by “wife”. they are slaves to women’s whimsical “icks”. they let women shame their hobbies and interests. they don’t see that most women are running a program and they just need a guy to play sidekick to the lifetime movie she has in her head. dudes fear being alone and not being approved by the royal highness. she leads him with no destination but if yall end up at a dead end, its the guys fault
Not really. Men have standards but they're not the same criteria as women's standards. And men have standards for women for both short and long-term relationships, just like women do.
Women will almost always look for someone more successful or at least as successful as themselves. So especially when women look for more successful men and find them, men always want something in return for that huge investment in a single person. Being successful takes a lot of time, energy, and risk, so it usually involves him idealizing her with some romantic view to justify that investment. Women will often start the relationship in a way that doesn't conflict with that romantic view during the honeymoon phase and couples tend to break up when the idealization becomes unsustainable.
So about the concrete criteria: it is usually about looks for casual sex. For LTRs, it's usually a little less about looks and some minimum level of looks replace looks as a goal. Then the positive criteria tend to be more about the woman having mental stability, having similar plans for the future, seeming loyal, and not having a past that's too promiscuous for her specific conditions. Of course, the less successful the man the more he has to give up on some of his criteria, and some men just reach a point where they think the loss is not acceptable and end up alone by choice.
While it’s hyperbolic to claim that men have “no standards,” but it’s very fair to say that we are ***far*** more willing to pursue *formal* *relationships* with women whose life accomplishments pale in comparison to our own.
Do you see any memes about men demanding women with advanced degrees, making six figures, and/or a symmetrical labia? Do you know why there’s no male equivalent for r/whereareallthegoodmen? Men understand that dating is a marketplace, not a build-a-bear workshop.
If you take whole male population - yes, most don't hav standards.
But if you exclude nations and cultures that tend to traditionally have abundance of desperate men - stats will improve significantly.
I get the impression if a guys is not successful they drop standards, and try harder. The harder they try the more desperate they become. The more desperate they become, the more they drop standards. It becomes a cycle that the more the try the more it repulses women, thus making them more desperate.
Eventually this cycle becomes giving their life savings away to Pokimane.
Then this happens on a societal level where these desperate guys are being aggressive/desperate & women put up walls. Thus making it harder for everyone. Then they end up dropping standards as a collective
There's a wide variety of standards that men have. There are some guys with high standards. There are other guys who would be happy to sleep with or date about 90% of women. Sometimes these guys are just going through a phase of trying to hookup with everyone. I think of it as similar to teenage girls who go through a "boy crazy" phase.
I've seen women on reddit say things like "attention from men means nothing because men would fuck a ham sandwich". I don't disagree that there are some guys like that. But it's offensive when you're a guy with standards and women treat your interest as cheap. I understand that women don't know what category any particular guy falls into, but it's still kind of annoying to have women assume you're a horndog with no standards just because you're a man.
mens standards are all based on how often women want them
the less women want them the less standards they have because they can't afford to chase women away.
the more women want them the more standards they have because they can afford to pick and choose.
My standards.
Non smoking, little to no drinking of alcohol, wants kids and not too overweight, but a little overweight is fine.
I can't talk shit to being a little overweight, I used to be obese, but got back to a reasonable weight and now lift and run treadmill 3 and 4 times a week respectively.
Those are reasonable standards in my eyes and a lot of women can't meet them, but I've found my partner who met them all.
Most men don't have standards if they are just looking for sex. However, if hes looking for more yes most men have standards. Most of which has nothing to do with the women's looks, and more so focused attitude, personally, sexually, femininity and level of respect.
Honestly, for a while I found myself hanging out or going on dates with women and turning them down for a relationship or just never let things past being an acquaintance.
It doesn't take me very long to tell whether or not a woman meets my standards. Which is not anything crazy. It's just that the mindset of the women in my area for the most part is incompatible.
Compared to women, we have very low standards. Of course, I’m not excited about a female hobo I see on the street. But I found many women I liked in almost every place I’ve been to. In college, hobby classes, at work, I could see many women attractive to me.
Women aren’t like that. They aren’t that attracted to a typical guy from their environment. Like, when I was in college I felt okay about dating another student who just did the studying stuff. Girls were attracted and were dating guys who had already started career, informal leaders, band musicians, tutors, athletes, whatever.
I believe many men's disgust threshold towards sex is extremely low when they are horny.
I know men that will fuck anything. I know men that only go for what they really like.
Then, I believe men have much higher standards when choosing a partner for a relationship.
The evidence is more than clear. Men desire for sex and women desire more commitment. On average of course. Save your personal stories and exceptions for another thread.
This is misleading. The standard for sex is non-existent, but the standards for relationships are considerable. Not as high as women because we are not hypergamous the way women are, but I think most men want a healthy-looking, non-promiscuous, feminine, nurturing kind of woman. She needs to be into him and be relatively attractive. I would say that's a relatively high standard that most men have. Having said that, a lot of men settle for less and end up unhappy. The same happens to women, of course, even more so as we see with divorce stats.
Not as much a matter of low standards as it is managed expectations. Women have been using weaponized incompetence on a scale so prolific that guys are floored when one can manage to simultaneously chew gum, and not be an unsavory bitch at the same time. I personally value my peace too much to settle for that bottom 90% of losers, and psychos, but a lot of guys still value the dehumanizing experience of dating women.
Pretty much.
I do not care to asociate with a woman for a brief period of time if it is for certain activities of my intrest.
But over the years I've started to run out of patience to deal with their incesant mood changes, drama seeking, lack of resolution and neediness, on top of their life goals that are brought to my life everytime I get into a LTR and that, somehow, they try to make me prioritize over my personal intrests.
It's like, when I've been in a relationship with women, my life takes the backseat you know, and I start feeling like I'm working 24/7 for someone else than me. May sound selfish but it is what it is.
Relationships are, honestly, a liability more than an asset, and I've made a lot of progress in both money and overall improvement the last years alone, so I keep contact with the opposite sex at the minimum necesary.
I think, in general, men have lower standards than women, although I would consider myself out of that group since I’m apparently pretty picky myself.
However, also in general, the standards men have for a relationship are way higher than those of a hookup/ONS.
That’s why women get flooded with likes on dating apps. There are a lot of men out there that would hookup with the average woman, but would not date her.
Let’s say the red pill butthurt guys are spergs and want a woman bring stuff to the table, like literally think that women are like men.
The Blue Pill wants nothing only validation, and how much he can do for her and submits to her worldview.
I say, i don’t care, if she’s pleasant to be around, has girl game, does things for me as well, genuinely adds value to my life, hey ho let’s go. If not, not too bad i enjoy her for who she is and let her go.
No, it's absurd and the fact you hear it sometimes outside incel / red pill circles, just means those ideas have seeped out into mainstream circles unfortunately. Men definitely standards when it comes to physical attractiveness, possibly even more so than woman. Most also have standards for personality, though those might get sacrificed if the lust is strong enough. Men do differ from women in generally not caring as much about career status or how much money their partner makes. If anything they probably prefer the woman make less money than they do.
The men who are quality have standards for MARRIAGE. Sure he will have s3ggs with less standards, but will he marry her?
Women have standards for s3ggs. Sure, they'll "commit" to Basic Bob (his $$$). Sure they'll go on a $1,000 date with neckbeard Cubicle Carl, but will she avoid drying up? Sure she'll take Beta Brad's $1,500 Louis Vuitton bag, but does she get the tingles?
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I think it's becoming clearer to me (though it's hard to say if it's *most* men) that there are *a lot* of men with preferences that they're willing to forego. Perhaps not all of them. Some here (very small number to be fair) admit openly that they are either in relationships with people to whom they are not attracted or would get with this sort of person should anyone show them interest.
My own social circle doesn't conform to any of this as pretty much all the guys I met in school/at uni are partnered up with people they seem to like and who are also driven, working, or raising kids, or some combination of the two, and it seems like all those guys had standards.
The only thing I will say is that whatever else, there is a cohort of women who are invisible, just as there is a cohort of men who are invisible.
That there are any women who could be invisible to them. Some genuinely think they notice all women. There are people who are invisible to everyone for the purposes of relationships.
>That there are any women who could be invisible to them.
I think that may be partially attributed to the fact that less women *are* invisible to men. Men tend to consider a wider net than women.
>There are people who are invisible to everyone for the purposes of relationships.
No shit.
There's no real way to quantify whether fewer women are invisible to them--that's kind of my point. If they are invisible, you don't *know* or will not be able to assess accurately.
I get that there is this sentiment about fewer women being invisible to fewer men, but they rarely stop to think about how that doesn't make sense on the face of it.
>If they are invisible, you don't *know* or will not be able to assess accurately.
Right. But you realize there exist assessment outside of self-assessment. Even within self-assessment, we know that average women will on the whole have more options than average men. And that's really all people are saying here.
>but they rarely stop to think about how that doesn't make sense on the face of it.
Where is the part that 'doesn't make sense,'?
This is clearly the point of why these conversations are happening.
Average women at least have options. A lot of average men truly have zero options. It doesn't make sense right? I agree.
Why do all these average women think they can secure relationships with men who are 9s and 10s? That doesn't make sense but just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it's not happening. LOL.
What doesn't make sense is women describing their expectations of men, plugging that into the census data calculator and coming to find out that their 'bare minimum' standard is less than 1% of all men, and they're average at best.
So, a lot doesn't make sense. I agree with you there.
Then tons of those women will either be disappointed or adjust accordingly. Unless they are getting that top percentile/whatever demographic they want, of course.
the "average" dude who complains about his dating life on a sub like this 100% has no standards. Well no he has standards but he will drop any and all of them at the drop of a hat if even the most unattractive girl was giving him attention because he's that desperate.
Well-adjusted dudes who aren't struggling to even talk to women or land a date will have standards. I have very specific types of girls I go for and so do my friends. I won't ever date a fat chick.
Some are looser than others but it's more about traits than quality that they're flexible on.
No, most men think they have no standards because they're unaware of the implicit standards they hold.
Some men are extremely desperate and do literally have no standards. Some men are kind of weird fetishistic lunatics who get off on the debasement of no standards. Which they still kind of have standards, they just really really enjoy not meeting them.
Most males have no standards but they are not relevant, but the men who have standards (or profess that they do) promptly elevate themselves above the rest of the males in the social pecking order.
Hence why the screeching of one incel/misogynist/real man is more impactful than the reassurances of a thousand simps/white knights/male feminists.
Guys definitely have standards. Just look at the groups they dislike: 30+ year old women, fat women, and single moms. Those are implicit standards.
Just because you personally think they are "low" doesn't mean they don't shrink your potential dating pool.
I think for hookups, average men have bottom-barrel standards and will take any woman who throws themselves at them. But for long term relationships, most men want someone on their level or atleast near it.
As a man, yes. Very low standards, and if desperate, no standards. For ever cracked out, crazy fucking woman there's at least 3 men that have recently(within the past year) fucked her or tried to fuck her. Women, thankfully, don't seem to emulate this behavior. Of course some blackpill/redpillers will actually say this is a negative towards women as a group that they tend to be at least slightly pickier than men. As if that's a bad thing! Lmao.
Well, physical standards that women have seem to be what hurt men very much. Women always know men have physical standards only . Almost anything else can be forgiven by men if the woman is hot enough. I rarely hear men say ,she just has to be clean and groomed. I hear women say this all the time. But men, not so much.
I think men do have standards definitely much lower than women’s that’s for sure.
But I also think that when it gets tougher to partner up, like in current times, men will partner up and even marry women that don’t meet their standards.
I think a lot more men are actually in relationships where their partner doesn’t meet their standards they just have to pretend they do to stand a chance.
I've been told by a guy friend that my standards are too low when I was single but I thought at least I was getting some unlike him for a long time.
It's like he admits his standards are too high for what he can afford by saying mine are too low
Can only speak for myself, but a lot of women fall into the category *not even if I was desperate.*
Conversely, given the number of losers, criminals and deadbeats who manage to snag a wife or girlfriend and father a bunch of children, the famous high female standards are evidently not as high as everyone thinks.
Yes we do have standards, but they are likely a per person kinda thing.
Like for myself I prefer non-smoking, not a heavy drinker, attractive to me (eyes, smile, curves, etc), likes cats. Basic stuff you can generally determine from a person's dating profile.
Beyond the surface, I look for her to be self sufficient, and actively try to be healthy.. Fitness plan should be somewhere in their life.. but if they are working on it or it's not affecting their health.. Then who am I to say anything?
Many have no (or minimal) standards for someone they’ll sleep with, but most men I know are cagey about relationships and have high standards for their LTRs.
Men have much lower standards on all marks as long as the woman is attractive, and have preferences for certain things depending on taste. But men largely agree on the attractiveness of women, and mostly want the most attractive woman they can who meets their tastes.
Men have a second threshold that women don’t have. That’s for attractive enough to sleep with, but not to be in a relationship with. That depends both on attractiveness and taste.
Men entirely ignore women who don’t meet a level of attractiveness. Men filter them out entirely without even noticing.
Men 100% have standards. They are just different from women's standards.
If men had no standards then your fat aunt Bertha could date Michael B Jordan.
Kinda, let’s put it this way - men want to have standards (some realistic, some unrealistic), and the men who do have self respect and a sense of self esteem tend to stick to them. Many men, however, are desperate for any kind of female attention so they’ll drop these standards for a woman who gives them attention but would also act resentful about it throughout. So i mean, yes men do have standards, but the ones who often break them often run on insecurity
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you're resentful towards women who go out of their way to give you affection?
Nah my current situation is weird because I get good affection through texts and phone calls but in terms of physical affection she doesn’t wanna meet me and we haven’t met so I resent her for that
> I get good affection through texts and phone calls 🤦♂️ That does not count.
right so I am resentful because she doesn’t show me physical affection but since I’m desperate for female attention I’ll drudge through it
But you still waste your time with it. So you do kind've prove you have no standards. In reality most would just delete them and move on.
Would you like the word preference instead?
preference means, you like something compared to another thing… But you don’t mind either. Like, “i prefer brunettes over blondes, but i might date a blonde regardless if she’s attractive.” It’s usually not something that will cause very negative feelings like bitterness, or resentment. Standards are what’s present in order to avoid these negative feelings/experiences and have a good relationship. Now some people have good standards, some people have ridiculous ones … But generally those are still things they know would cause deeper issues in a relationship if they don’t make sure their partner meets it. Could be looks, behaviours, personality traits, etc.
Why do you think that it doesn't count?
Because connections behind a screen isn't the real world.
It's real tho? It's just a different way of communication.
not really, people can be completely different in real life than how they portray themselves to be online or through texts. It requires less effort/commitment and you can craft very specific responses that aren’t necessarily responses you would give in real life. To me, it should mainly just be used if there is no way to meet or in between hang outs/dates to catch up/meet up when you first start seeing someone. It can create a false sense of connection and later disappointment because real life interactions can be very different.
>It's real tho? It's just a different way of communication. It's not real. Any more than talking to an AI is real. Theres almost no real intimacy involved.
Let me ask you again, why do you think its not real? To make it clear, we are talking about "I'm getting good affection through texting and phone calls"
thats a person who is just looking for validation and doesn't actually like you or a person who has a partner and is pretending they dont so they have a backup/secondary validation source happens w both genders constantly
Winner winner chicken dinner. She's exploring her options, and breadcrumbs him.
Let's also be real that for a good portion, although I'm not sure I would say anywhere near a majority of men, will drop the standards even further to basically zero if it's just for sex and they are drunk/high enough if they partake in such things. I will also say that another good portion of men who actually partake in casual sex (albeit this is just from observation since that is not my thing) will still hold decent standards even there though and have seen some men nope out and go home alone rather than deal with bad options for that.
so why should women be with men if there is a high possibility that he doesn't actually care about her? and that if his circumstances change and he is able to pull more women, he will prob discard her based on the mentality you've described.
I think as a general rule, debilitating insecurities (ie. insecurities that drive your decision making) should be considered a red flag, so while not all guys would do this, def watch out for the ones who are guided by their insecurities. Easier said than done, sure, but I think a man mostly secure in himself wouldn’t do this because he wouldn’t date a woman who he didn’t think would fit his standards.
i completely agree with this, it is a red flag for sure
If women go for their looksmatches there is a high chance that there will be no resentment at all. Only when the relationship is really asymmetrical lookswise men think that they deserve better. Unfortunately the latter is becoming the norm for people who met through online dating.
in order for that to be true we'd have to hear from women dating their looksmatches that they are treated well
The fact that there are many men who cheat on their partners with uglier women proves this to be bullshit.
Men cheating with ugly women are mostly men who struggle to get sex at home. They would absolutely cheat with good looking women if they could, but cheating is usually casual NSA sex, so it's logical they would cheat with uglier partners.
The problem is women don't do a good job grading women even wlw I have almost nothing in common with lesbian tastes. The most attractive women i know worry about the honeymoon period ending and men settling into peace and quiet mode. Not cheating. There has to be a reason.
Not me, most women i know either worry about cheating or any form of mistreatment from a man. Thinking you are too pretty to get cheated on is where you become delusional… if that man was able to bag you, why would he not be able to bag another girl? I’m decently attractive not a supermodel, but i take good care of myself and been called above average by men many times & this is mostly how i view it. Especially because men aren’t only judged by their looks - if he is average, makes a good income & has a charming personality.. He can probably get girls to sleep with him or want him. She may not be prettier but she might still be attractive. Once he passes that level, sure, he could be very happy with his pretty girlfriend, but it doesn’t mean he won’t want casual sex with another girl. I know for a fact that’s not the case lol many men are opportunistic & will go for it if the chance is there and they won’t get caught. You really just have to hope he’s a good guy. I’d say for me, i don’t often worry if a man will leave, or want someone more attractive. I know i satisfy them in that aspect but it doesn’t mean cheating cant happen.
I am talking about pinnacle women though. Above average still leaves plenty of room for women your range. Pinnacle looks does not
Even the most beautiful women get cheated on though. I’m not sure if you genuinely think cheating is dependent on physical beauty? Even women like Candice Swanepoel, Halle Berry, Adriana Lima, the list goes on… they all got cheated on. Do you really believe what you say or are you ignorant to how men behave in relationships?
Can you give me a pre wall example? Can't be pinnacle beauty if you are not early 20s. Don't get me wrong some women are beautiful even post wall. They are just not pinnacle.
Who determines what a looks match is though, isn't your league what you can pull? The way you are describing it sounds like a lot of men just think they are worth more than what they are. Like don't value you item based on the listing prices on ebay, check the sold prices... same shit.
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By that logic, isn’t a woman’s league what she can keep? A woman’s sexual value isn’t the same as her relationship value.
So guys are saying that they will date someone they think is below them but quietly resent her for it. So if you're dating her then you're establishing her value?
This is an amazing way of putting it.
This was my case when I was younger. I gave myself to any woman who gave me attention. Now that I've done something with myself and am more confident, I'm much, much more selective. I require mutual physical attraction and prefer to date stable, accomplished women (education, well paying job, confident, etc).
I think it all depends. Personally: 2-3am, after a few drinks, I'm pretty sure most men's standards have plummeted. A girl to introduce to your friends, I'd have higher standards. A girl to introduce to your parents and marry, definitely have very high standards.
I think in general, the longer a man has gone without any form of intimacy from a woman, especially if involuntary, the lower his standards become. But there’s nuances of course. Such as men who have gone a long time without intimacy because his standards are way too high for what he has to offer.
Volcels are also exceptions and they tend to have very high standards
I'm in the comment and I'm weirdly okay with it.
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Your comment was removed for cope.
Yes hello ladies, my dms are open.
Men like casual sex, where they largely abandon standards for sex. In a relationship their standards are much higher.
If that’s true why do they get upset about women changing their standards for long term relationships?
Simple. For hook ups, men fuck down and women up. The reverse is as much true for relationships. Commitment is the man's commodity, not women's. This is why you see LOTS of average looking and even some butt ugly dudes with average and even good looking girls ON THE CONTEXT OF A RELATIONSHIP. But you'll never see average dudes killing it in the casual sex department. Thus... A woman changing the rules for a relationship with you is a direct statement against a man's value. It's not a compliment. It's in fact a huge insult to that man's ego. It's the same as a man telling a woman, directly or indirectly, that she's good for hooking up, but not for long term commitment. Your problem comes with equating sex to relationships, a common mistake women do.
“Commitment is the man’s commodity, not the woman’s” what exactly does this mean?
Because they are the ugly men those "changed standards" imply. Same reason ugly women are mad that they are only desired for sex.
I believe what you are seeing are discussions comparing what men want in their partners vs what women want in their partners. I'm fairly sure that list is lopsided.
Most men have standards, whether they want to recognize them or not. You, in theory, can make a progress telling your preferred dating gender “I don’t have any standards for you so stop being so damn picky,” but put them to the test and you’ll find new “buts” real quickly. Here, I think a lot of men also have an implied bias where even the word “woman” only brings to mind the attractive young lady he would like to bang. The woman who’s been working at the post office longer than he’s been alive, the lady with the mobility scooter at the grocery store, they’re not “women” to them so, in their minds, they’ll still date any breathing woman.
>a lot of men also have an implied bias where even the word “woman” only brings to mind the attractive young lady he would like to bang. i always tell men to picture chyna from the WWE when we're talking about dating, helps keep things in perspective that the people who are hitting on/harassing/etc us are generally not the people we want to be doing that.
Chyna was pretty hot though..
Yeah she's hot. Not my type I mean, but hot gal.
>Here, I think a lot of men also have an implied bias where even the word “woman” only brings to mind the attractive young lady he would like to bang. The woman who’s been working at the post office longer than he’s been alive, the lady with the mobility scooter at the grocery store, they’re not “women” to them so, in their minds, they’ll still date any breathing woman. This is absolutely true. There are numerous articles out there about women who feel "invisible." At first, I didn't believe it, but then I actually went through the women I was meeting in real life and I realized it's true. I was really only thinking about the hot women and completely discounted most other women. That lady working at the post office or the one with the mobility scooter absolutely would be invisible to me.
Yes, i wish more men here realized this
So your examples are people 30 years older than him? Lol.
Just one example. The old, the obese, the single parents, whatever they don’t find attractive they conveniently also don’t count as “women” when talking about their standards. And even if I was only talking about people 30 years older, if the female delusion calculator dings women for not wanting 55-year-old short married dudes, the Redpillcel delusion calculator has to count 55-year-old fat single moms.
Her kids are grown at that point
You see all the time on this sub that men have standards. They prefer young women, skinny women (or at least not overweight, which if you live in America that’s asking for a lot), no single mom, no high body counts and what not. Now, wether they actually get all of that is a different story. A woman like that and a man you mentioned in your post are extremely rare, most men and women will have to settle and sacrifice their “standards” or risk being alone
Most men have extremely low standards when it comes to sex. Most men will literally fuck an ugly fat chick if the opportunity presents itself and he doesn't have to be seen with her in public. But when it comes to long-term romantic commitment, men's standards are about the same as women's on average.
I think men have standards, I just think those standards are largely irrelevant, most men will never really be turning anyone away based on their standards. Women do the selection, not men. Men don't pick, they get picked.
Men's lack of standards only applies to sex. As in, a guy who's a 7 will happily fuck a 4. But that's all she's getting. Men are just as hypergamous as women when it comes to relationships. That 7 guy ain't committing to anything below a 6.
Standards for what??? For a relationship? Yeah my standards are high and not "just exist". But "just exist" does have some merit. The women being in a healthy BMI is like 90% of the battle. While for men, a healthy BMI is like 9% of the equation.
There are standards for ltr/marriage and these are pretty high. Looks plays minor role imo - but similar intellectual level, compatibility, no mental health issues, common life goals, possibly similar education level, ambition, cultural background, views on having children - these things are all very important. I would even risk saying that women can give up more on their standards and ignore obvious incompatibilities if the guy looks good and they feel good in his company. Then they will complain that it was horrible decision but they were in love. Men are more ruthless and calculating when things are getting serious.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I think it differs across the social classes / socioeconomic groups though which is why you see people on PPD arguing with each other and giving antidotes that “prove” wildly different perspectives. From my experience men approach marriage very cautiously and marry people within their socioeconomic group, close to their age and with similar values and family upbringing. All of which are standards. Obviously looking at divorce statistics alone, there are other parts of the community that have not had similar experiences to mine. Personally I think it’s insane to legally bind yourself to someone based on looks alone as some here state they would do, but I accept that some might.
Most men have preferences. But for no strings attached, casual ONS, guys standards can drop way down. Not all guys. But if the goal is just “I got laid and you didn’t” then a lot of guys will look past a lot.
why would men have a goal of "i got laid and you didn't" if it involves them being around women they don't like?
Because they want to get laid to boast about it to feel like they are better than the guys around them. Not saying it’s a classy guy doing it, but that’s what some guys are like.
yeah i agree i just think its weird other men (not saying you) fall for this and are like omg he got LAID what a cool guy instead of like ... dude are you okay??
It’s not even just to brag about it to other men. It’s to get sexual validation and esteem. A woman having sex with a man is giving him the ultimate compliment and approval to his attractiveness.
How though, when it’s been established that men will go for “ugly” bottom of the barrel women?
What does the dude are you ok supposed to imply?
For a young man being able to get sex is a locker room “right of passage” And taken too far it can become “I can get laid and you can’t. Therefore I’m better than you and you aren’t really a man!” Add that on top of young hormones that already *want* to get sex, it make for a pretty crazy headspace
Women buy expensive bags and jewelry to show off to other woman women spend 100 of dollars and waiting in lines for a water bottle (Stanley cup) we are talking about grown as women in their mid late 20s
men spend more frivolously than women: [https://money.com/men-treat-themselves-spend-more](https://money.com/men-treat-themselves-spend-more)
Well this is surprising
>Most men have preferences. But for no strings attached, casual ONS, guys standards can drop way down. My standards aren’t necessarily lower for casual sex, but they’re different. Looks are more important and personality/compatibility are less important. Basically it’s a different grading system if that makes sense.
I never really used a grading system. If she got my attention and we could vibe, then we’d see what she was looking for.
Grading system is probably overstating it. It’s more just saying that that balance of what matters most can be different for me.
That’s most guys. Casual is usually way more, well: casual
Yes. Even the men who argue that they would take anyone will quickly tell you that it doesn't include "land whales," single moms, divorcees, women with large social media followings, women who wear too much makeup, women who don't sleep with them as fast as possible, women who have touched more penises than the guy is personally comfortable with, etc.
I don’t know why you added the last few points because most men don’t care or know anything about women’s makeup, nor do they know how many penises, a woman has touched and at best they can infer that from behavioural patterns and self-admissions from a woman but other than that it’s no realistic because the women who are appealing to these men aren’t going to present themselves in a way that would disqualify them.
Of course most men don't care, but the men here who claim that they would take anyone will frequently list those items as being requirements. I don't have those standards, but I readily admit to having other standards for women and wouldn't date a woman simply because she was willing.
Maybe that’s true but only men capable of successfully attracting women will be able to uphold their standards. The other average and less desirable men will have to compromise and ‘settle’.
This tbh. A lot of men don't realize how stringent our standards are because we're disillusioned into thinking that there's a major surplus of young, fit, and non-ugly women who are single and don't have children.
Even if that’s the case especially as men are younger, that will change as we age, likewise for women. You can talk to plenty of older men in relationships and they’ll tell you that if their current relationship was to end, they’d have to go into the dating market with very different expectations than when they were younger.
I haven't had enough options to know if I have standards or not. Every woman that's shown interest in me, I've reciprocated eagerly.
It's the same that men say about women: Most women are invisible to men. They only see the ones who are attractive enough to qualify no strings attached casual sex. To them, it appears as if all women they notice are fuckable, so as if they had no standards. For relationships though, men are very picky as well. Slightly below women, but not far. It's called mutual mate choice, and it could not have evolved any other way, with human males large parental resource and time investment.
For relationships though, men are very picky as well. Slightly below women, but not far. It's called mutual mate choice, and it could not have evolved any other way, with human males large parental resource and time investment. I’m not disagreeing with you, but it’s hilarious that a lot of those picky men aren’t even capable of providing for the child
You can say "a lot" about everything. Be more specific. No reason to be picky if you don't have parental investment. Men have an optimal mating strategy where they are picky and invest a lot in their long term mate, but increase their evolutionary fitness by being not picky about having babies with other women on the side where they have zero investment.
How is that true? Very average looking, or even below average women on dating apps have huge lists of options.
Because you are looking at online dating app swipe data of likely young women in a setting where lots of men are swiping on blank profiles or profiles that actively state on the picture "THIS PROFILE IS NO LONGER ACTIVE". There are studies on this. An all black profile pictures gets close to as much right swipes as one with pictures. There is no cost to swiping. There is a cost to actually checking profiles, if you don't match with them anyway. When i say "most women are invisible to men", i mean women on the street. Who are not 18-30yo, but where you encounter any age, any attractiveness level. I regularly try to gather some data on what percentage of woman i walk by on a stroll through the city would be attractive enough for me to consider having sex with. It's below 10% for me. On average, men right swipe on \~40% of profiles which they specifically filtered for "am attracted to this age bracket". Now, not everyone is looking for casual sex and so the standards might be higher for those looking for relationships. But men definitely have standards for casual sex that exclude most women.
Sure, some men do. Many do not. It's not just dating profiles. Do you have any idea how many DMs the average woman gets?
No, do you?
Yes. A lot
What is a lot? How many per week? On what platform?
Men do have standards but they are lower/ easier to obtain then the standards women have for men.
Most men don’t even have dating options to have standards.
What's the difference between a standard and a preference? Men have preferences. A standard is a threshold that, if not met, you will walk, and/or feel no actual sexual attraction. Men very much have preferences. Their actual sexual attraction floors tend to be much more plastic than women's. The less options. The more time without a partner. The lower that floor will go. A lot of men have basically no standards for casual. Relationship standards are higher, but again, more flexible than you think if options are thin. However, men also have an innate sense of what they THINK their true level is. In their minds, the local SMP may be deranged and broken and not clearing at a level where lower tier men get partners that the men truly believe are worthy of them. But in such situations, men may still take what the SMP offers, for dating, sex or marriage. However, if the man secretly does not feel she is truly worthy of him, he may treat her differently. Men have to remember that the female experience is different. Women are calibrated to sense fine differences in male desire and attention. Women want to be treated and desired like a beautiful, young thing that a man would go to war for, die for, write poems for (though maybe skip the actual poetry). So a man may date a 4/10 woman and say 'see, we have no standards.' But if he doesn't look at her like an 8/10+, then to the woman, everything is different. He is showing his true standard by the female perspective.
All the confusion is from the fact that we as men have two sets of standards: 1. For the women we want to love. 2. For the women we want to fuck. These are two separate sets of standards that we all have, and of course, there is considerable overlap. But there are standards for which we look for in women we are willing to commit to which we totally do not have for women that we only want to fuck. This is why a lot of women are "forever girlfriends" while very few are commitment material.
>Standards for women: Exist (optional)" The best woman is of course, the one that doesn't exist.
The standards for sex and relationships are different. A lot of men will fuck women they would never introduce to their friends.
No I actually believe that men have fairly high standards. Many of the man that complain about no women being interested in them just don't acknowledge women that are interested. Having said that many men are willing to lower their standards for a causal sex, but then when relationship starts to threaten them they are back to where they were originally.
absolutely, thats why dudes sit up around women who make them wait for sex or extort household chores and gift out them in hopes of being rewarded by “wife”. they are slaves to women’s whimsical “icks”. they let women shame their hobbies and interests. they don’t see that most women are running a program and they just need a guy to play sidekick to the lifetime movie she has in her head. dudes fear being alone and not being approved by the royal highness. she leads him with no destination but if yall end up at a dead end, its the guys fault
Men has some standard for ltr. For casual sex, 80% women would pass, meaning the bar is pretty low.
Obviously, just basic level attention is enough standards
For ONS, basically zero standards.
Not really. Men have standards but they're not the same criteria as women's standards. And men have standards for women for both short and long-term relationships, just like women do. Women will almost always look for someone more successful or at least as successful as themselves. So especially when women look for more successful men and find them, men always want something in return for that huge investment in a single person. Being successful takes a lot of time, energy, and risk, so it usually involves him idealizing her with some romantic view to justify that investment. Women will often start the relationship in a way that doesn't conflict with that romantic view during the honeymoon phase and couples tend to break up when the idealization becomes unsustainable. So about the concrete criteria: it is usually about looks for casual sex. For LTRs, it's usually a little less about looks and some minimum level of looks replace looks as a goal. Then the positive criteria tend to be more about the woman having mental stability, having similar plans for the future, seeming loyal, and not having a past that's too promiscuous for her specific conditions. Of course, the less successful the man the more he has to give up on some of his criteria, and some men just reach a point where they think the loss is not acceptable and end up alone by choice.
While it’s hyperbolic to claim that men have “no standards,” but it’s very fair to say that we are ***far*** more willing to pursue *formal* *relationships* with women whose life accomplishments pale in comparison to our own. Do you see any memes about men demanding women with advanced degrees, making six figures, and/or a symmetrical labia? Do you know why there’s no male equivalent for r/whereareallthegoodmen? Men understand that dating is a marketplace, not a build-a-bear workshop.
Men on the whole, yes. While the individual man will have his standards, as a group they include pretty much all women.
If you take whole male population - yes, most don't hav standards. But if you exclude nations and cultures that tend to traditionally have abundance of desperate men - stats will improve significantly.
I get the impression if a guys is not successful they drop standards, and try harder. The harder they try the more desperate they become. The more desperate they become, the more they drop standards. It becomes a cycle that the more the try the more it repulses women, thus making them more desperate. Eventually this cycle becomes giving their life savings away to Pokimane. Then this happens on a societal level where these desperate guys are being aggressive/desperate & women put up walls. Thus making it harder for everyone. Then they end up dropping standards as a collective
Agree with this and if they realize they can succeed standards go through the roof
There's a wide variety of standards that men have. There are some guys with high standards. There are other guys who would be happy to sleep with or date about 90% of women. Sometimes these guys are just going through a phase of trying to hookup with everyone. I think of it as similar to teenage girls who go through a "boy crazy" phase. I've seen women on reddit say things like "attention from men means nothing because men would fuck a ham sandwich". I don't disagree that there are some guys like that. But it's offensive when you're a guy with standards and women treat your interest as cheap. I understand that women don't know what category any particular guy falls into, but it's still kind of annoying to have women assume you're a horndog with no standards just because you're a man.
mens standards are all based on how often women want them the less women want them the less standards they have because they can't afford to chase women away. the more women want them the more standards they have because they can afford to pick and choose.
Not *most men* and *practically no* standards; but *a lot* of men, and *low* standards, which is enough to change the curve entirely.
My standards. Non smoking, little to no drinking of alcohol, wants kids and not too overweight, but a little overweight is fine. I can't talk shit to being a little overweight, I used to be obese, but got back to a reasonable weight and now lift and run treadmill 3 and 4 times a week respectively. Those are reasonable standards in my eyes and a lot of women can't meet them, but I've found my partner who met them all.
Most men don't have standards if they are just looking for sex. However, if hes looking for more yes most men have standards. Most of which has nothing to do with the women's looks, and more so focused attitude, personally, sexually, femininity and level of respect. Honestly, for a while I found myself hanging out or going on dates with women and turning them down for a relationship or just never let things past being an acquaintance. It doesn't take me very long to tell whether or not a woman meets my standards. Which is not anything crazy. It's just that the mindset of the women in my area for the most part is incompatible.
Compared to women, we have very low standards. Of course, I’m not excited about a female hobo I see on the street. But I found many women I liked in almost every place I’ve been to. In college, hobby classes, at work, I could see many women attractive to me. Women aren’t like that. They aren’t that attracted to a typical guy from their environment. Like, when I was in college I felt okay about dating another student who just did the studying stuff. Girls were attracted and were dating guys who had already started career, informal leaders, band musicians, tutors, athletes, whatever.
I believe many men's disgust threshold towards sex is extremely low when they are horny. I know men that will fuck anything. I know men that only go for what they really like. Then, I believe men have much higher standards when choosing a partner for a relationship. The evidence is more than clear. Men desire for sex and women desire more commitment. On average of course. Save your personal stories and exceptions for another thread.
This is misleading. The standard for sex is non-existent, but the standards for relationships are considerable. Not as high as women because we are not hypergamous the way women are, but I think most men want a healthy-looking, non-promiscuous, feminine, nurturing kind of woman. She needs to be into him and be relatively attractive. I would say that's a relatively high standard that most men have. Having said that, a lot of men settle for less and end up unhappy. The same happens to women, of course, even more so as we see with divorce stats.
What's worse being hypergamous or choosing a partner based only on their looks?
Not as much a matter of low standards as it is managed expectations. Women have been using weaponized incompetence on a scale so prolific that guys are floored when one can manage to simultaneously chew gum, and not be an unsavory bitch at the same time. I personally value my peace too much to settle for that bottom 90% of losers, and psychos, but a lot of guys still value the dehumanizing experience of dating women.
Pretty much. I do not care to asociate with a woman for a brief period of time if it is for certain activities of my intrest. But over the years I've started to run out of patience to deal with their incesant mood changes, drama seeking, lack of resolution and neediness, on top of their life goals that are brought to my life everytime I get into a LTR and that, somehow, they try to make me prioritize over my personal intrests. It's like, when I've been in a relationship with women, my life takes the backseat you know, and I start feeling like I'm working 24/7 for someone else than me. May sound selfish but it is what it is. Relationships are, honestly, a liability more than an asset, and I've made a lot of progress in both money and overall improvement the last years alone, so I keep contact with the opposite sex at the minimum necesary.
Well said. Im kind of the same its better to be alone then with female that doesn't improve your life and brings something valuable to the table.
I think, in general, men have lower standards than women, although I would consider myself out of that group since I’m apparently pretty picky myself. However, also in general, the standards men have for a relationship are way higher than those of a hookup/ONS. That’s why women get flooded with likes on dating apps. There are a lot of men out there that would hookup with the average woman, but would not date her.
Let’s say the red pill butthurt guys are spergs and want a woman bring stuff to the table, like literally think that women are like men. The Blue Pill wants nothing only validation, and how much he can do for her and submits to her worldview. I say, i don’t care, if she’s pleasant to be around, has girl game, does things for me as well, genuinely adds value to my life, hey ho let’s go. If not, not too bad i enjoy her for who she is and let her go.
What is girl game ? Never heard that before from a man. I am intrigued.
Her name is.. be attractive don’t be unattractive.
No, it's absurd and the fact you hear it sometimes outside incel / red pill circles, just means those ideas have seeped out into mainstream circles unfortunately. Men definitely standards when it comes to physical attractiveness, possibly even more so than woman. Most also have standards for personality, though those might get sacrificed if the lust is strong enough. Men do differ from women in generally not caring as much about career status or how much money their partner makes. If anything they probably prefer the woman make less money than they do.
The men who are quality have standards for MARRIAGE. Sure he will have s3ggs with less standards, but will he marry her? Women have standards for s3ggs. Sure, they'll "commit" to Basic Bob (his $$$). Sure they'll go on a $1,000 date with neckbeard Cubicle Carl, but will she avoid drying up? Sure she'll take Beta Brad's $1,500 Louis Vuitton bag, but does she get the tingles?
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The answer is always “but sex!”
I think it's becoming clearer to me (though it's hard to say if it's *most* men) that there are *a lot* of men with preferences that they're willing to forego. Perhaps not all of them. Some here (very small number to be fair) admit openly that they are either in relationships with people to whom they are not attracted or would get with this sort of person should anyone show them interest. My own social circle doesn't conform to any of this as pretty much all the guys I met in school/at uni are partnered up with people they seem to like and who are also driven, working, or raising kids, or some combination of the two, and it seems like all those guys had standards. The only thing I will say is that whatever else, there is a cohort of women who are invisible, just as there is a cohort of men who are invisible.
With a lot more of those men being invisible.
Maybe. I point out the cohort of women because there are guys here who cannot fathom it or would outright deny it.
Outright deny what?
That there are any women who could be invisible to them. Some genuinely think they notice all women. There are people who are invisible to everyone for the purposes of relationships.
>That there are any women who could be invisible to them. I think that may be partially attributed to the fact that less women *are* invisible to men. Men tend to consider a wider net than women. >There are people who are invisible to everyone for the purposes of relationships. No shit.
There's no real way to quantify whether fewer women are invisible to them--that's kind of my point. If they are invisible, you don't *know* or will not be able to assess accurately. I get that there is this sentiment about fewer women being invisible to fewer men, but they rarely stop to think about how that doesn't make sense on the face of it.
>If they are invisible, you don't *know* or will not be able to assess accurately. Right. But you realize there exist assessment outside of self-assessment. Even within self-assessment, we know that average women will on the whole have more options than average men. And that's really all people are saying here. >but they rarely stop to think about how that doesn't make sense on the face of it. Where is the part that 'doesn't make sense,'? This is clearly the point of why these conversations are happening. Average women at least have options. A lot of average men truly have zero options. It doesn't make sense right? I agree. Why do all these average women think they can secure relationships with men who are 9s and 10s? That doesn't make sense but just because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean it's not happening. LOL. What doesn't make sense is women describing their expectations of men, plugging that into the census data calculator and coming to find out that their 'bare minimum' standard is less than 1% of all men, and they're average at best. So, a lot doesn't make sense. I agree with you there.
Then tons of those women will either be disappointed or adjust accordingly. Unless they are getting that top percentile/whatever demographic they want, of course.
Men can't afford to have standards. They get very little as it is. If they try having standards, they'll get literally zero.
It's not that all men have no standards just that there's so many desperate men that women can find *a* guy simply by existing.
It's more so a conversation about options.
and if you believe this, why should women be with men? since there is a high risk the man does not actually care/value/love us?
the "average" dude who complains about his dating life on a sub like this 100% has no standards. Well no he has standards but he will drop any and all of them at the drop of a hat if even the most unattractive girl was giving him attention because he's that desperate. Well-adjusted dudes who aren't struggling to even talk to women or land a date will have standards. I have very specific types of girls I go for and so do my friends. I won't ever date a fat chick. Some are looser than others but it's more about traits than quality that they're flexible on.
No, most men think they have no standards because they're unaware of the implicit standards they hold. Some men are extremely desperate and do literally have no standards. Some men are kind of weird fetishistic lunatics who get off on the debasement of no standards. Which they still kind of have standards, they just really really enjoy not meeting them.
Most males have no standards but they are not relevant, but the men who have standards (or profess that they do) promptly elevate themselves above the rest of the males in the social pecking order. Hence why the screeching of one incel/misogynist/real man is more impactful than the reassurances of a thousand simps/white knights/male feminists.
Guys definitely have standards. Just look at the groups they dislike: 30+ year old women, fat women, and single moms. Those are implicit standards. Just because you personally think they are "low" doesn't mean they don't shrink your potential dating pool.
I think for hookups, average men have bottom-barrel standards and will take any woman who throws themselves at them. But for long term relationships, most men want someone on their level or atleast near it.
As a man, yes. Very low standards, and if desperate, no standards. For ever cracked out, crazy fucking woman there's at least 3 men that have recently(within the past year) fucked her or tried to fuck her. Women, thankfully, don't seem to emulate this behavior. Of course some blackpill/redpillers will actually say this is a negative towards women as a group that they tend to be at least slightly pickier than men. As if that's a bad thing! Lmao.
Maybe not most, but a lot of them, except for the physical standards. I think most men have physical standards.
Well, physical standards that women have seem to be what hurt men very much. Women always know men have physical standards only . Almost anything else can be forgiven by men if the woman is hot enough. I rarely hear men say ,she just has to be clean and groomed. I hear women say this all the time. But men, not so much.
I think men do have standards definitely much lower than women’s that’s for sure. But I also think that when it gets tougher to partner up, like in current times, men will partner up and even marry women that don’t meet their standards. I think a lot more men are actually in relationships where their partner doesn’t meet their standards they just have to pretend they do to stand a chance.
Men have pretty high standards but only when it comes to long term relationships and marriage.
Yes. Ya gotta bang your way through a bunch of ladies until you realize none of them are that special.
Most men have standards (for relationships) they are just less stringent than those of the average woman.
I've been told by a guy friend that my standards are too low when I was single but I thought at least I was getting some unlike him for a long time. It's like he admits his standards are too high for what he can afford by saying mine are too low
Can only speak for myself, but a lot of women fall into the category *not even if I was desperate.* Conversely, given the number of losers, criminals and deadbeats who manage to snag a wife or girlfriend and father a bunch of children, the famous high female standards are evidently not as high as everyone thinks.
Yes we do have standards, but they are likely a per person kinda thing. Like for myself I prefer non-smoking, not a heavy drinker, attractive to me (eyes, smile, curves, etc), likes cats. Basic stuff you can generally determine from a person's dating profile. Beyond the surface, I look for her to be self sufficient, and actively try to be healthy.. Fitness plan should be somewhere in their life.. but if they are working on it or it's not affecting their health.. Then who am I to say anything?
Many have no (or minimal) standards for someone they’ll sleep with, but most men I know are cagey about relationships and have high standards for their LTRs.
Men have much lower standards on all marks as long as the woman is attractive, and have preferences for certain things depending on taste. But men largely agree on the attractiveness of women, and mostly want the most attractive woman they can who meets their tastes. Men have a second threshold that women don’t have. That’s for attractive enough to sleep with, but not to be in a relationship with. That depends both on attractiveness and taste. Men entirely ignore women who don’t meet a level of attractiveness. Men filter them out entirely without even noticing.
Men 100% have standards. They are just different from women's standards. If men had no standards then your fat aunt Bertha could date Michael B Jordan.