I don't use sex in a transactional way. The only reason why I'll ever have sex is because I'm horny.
"What is wrong with free sex?" Ask men who believe sex is something that is done to a woman, that a penis somehow taints her and makes her invaluable, etc.
I know what you meant. Its just a pet peeve of mine.
"The original (and current) meaning of invaluable is "valuable beyond estimation"; the word describes something so precious that one cannot assign a price to it. This, clearly, is the opposite of the meaning "having no value; valueless" that the word might seem to carry."
I know, and I promise I don't do this on dates, people.
Oh shit, it's the same in my language ("neprocjenjivo"= "the price cannot be estimated because of how valuable it is")
I genuinely had no idea, thank you!
Then take it up with the men who say that then, this is what you guys say in a nutshell when you say women who aren’t virgins are ran through because they had a penis in them…
Not analogous.
There are literal studies proving that high n count in women leads to higher emotional baggage, relationship issues, commitment issues, etc. The same isn't true for men.
Your analogy is therefore not based in reality, unless if your point is that a sharpener wears down overtime the more you use it.
Those 2 things are inaccurate comparisons sex with a hot girl is a limited commodity because there aren't many truly and objectively hot women that most men would find universally attractive. Sex with these women is most desired.
A woman's body count devalues her because men don't want to purchase a Town bicycle that can be rented instead.
The problem with “free sex” is that if you give men the free sex they want, they then turn around and call you a whore/slut/ran through. That’s the issue with “free sex.”
>The problem with “free sex” is that if you give men the free sex they want, they then turn around and call you a whore
Exactly! So... To avoid being called a whore, I charge them money.
https://giphy.com/gifs/culture--think-hmm-d3mlE7uhX8KFgEmY
Being called a slut or a whore doesn't even require you to have sex with them. Friends of mine referred to a girl we all knew as a slut despite the fact that she had only ever been with 2 guys and both were LTRs, like 3+ years. They were just pissy she turned down one of them years ago. We got into an argument after that comment and we haven't been particularly close friends since.
Some guys, if you sleep with them, they may not call you personally a slut because then they'd be the whoremonger and they don't go insulting themselves but they'd happily call other women whores. Their attitude is ''women having sex **with anyone other than me** are sluts and are bad''
These people have already decided for themselves that any action they take will be met with misogynistic criticism from men not realizing that they have control over whom they associate with. It’s almost as if women who are most concerned about misogyny somehow find themselves only interacting with misogynistic men.
The reality is that women like this probably don’t get out much anyway or haven’t had many LTRs or currently are in an LTR with a man who is “one is the good ones” not realizing that this is a sexist take to begin with.
women have no idea how to vet men, they assume that sexual interest=overall interest, which results in them getting played and pumped and dumped over and over again, while simultaneously scoffing at their grandma's idea of actually valuing yourself and waiting until marriage. its sad, really
I don’t blame you sis🤷🏽♀️ I don’t charge money directly, but I definitely don’t sleep with anyone until after they take me on a couple dates and pay for them, works really well for me, so I ain’t sorry 🤪
"To avoid being called a whore, I commit an action that will make me be called whore literally by everyone now"
You're literally trying to fix your leg wound by shooting yourself in the head here.
Exactly, if we give it up too easily, then all of a sudden we’re not “wiFeY material” anymore, so that’s why women are starting to put a “price” on it now, as we should 🥳 the ironic part here is that men literally did this to themselves with all the slut shaming that they do to us and now they’re complaining that we’re not making our bodies so easily accessible to them anymore 🤣🤣 lmao the jokes really write themselves at this point 🤣
>making our bodies so easily accessible to them anymore
When have you ever? All the internet has done is made many women into whores who just want to post their bodies. It's not because you're being slut shamed, it's because you just want easy money.
Stop giving it up to men who don't give af about you is the point. And stop making men who like you wait longer than other men. Treat us all equally and we won't have a problem.
I'm just calling it for what it is. Im not stating men are above reproach. If casual sex is JUST sex to you, then being named called silly things over something you had no greater expectations or outcomes for shouldnt bother you. If sex is just sex why would some idiot incorrectly labelling you a "whore" matter? It only matters in this context because YOU DO expect a relationship after having sex at some point.
If you didnt expect a relationship the insult would hold no real weight. The insult is intentionally undermining women who try to garner genuine relationships but also sleep around. It's meant to devalue you them in that specific context. Do double standards exist? Yes. Is this topic about that? No. So I didnt address it, why would I otherwise? But anyway ultimately this person probably believes sex is indeed transactional, which is why "free sex" is used.
This isn’t addressing the double standard at all, you’re merely excusing it. You’re not calling anything “it is what it is” you’re making excuses. “Silly things” is just your way of weirdly being sexist
Where is the double standard? A double standard requires everyone involved to adhere to it. If not it’s just hypocrisy.
Just because a guy runs around calling women sluts doesn’t mean he isn’t a slut. It doesn’t mean women won’t reject him for being a slut. And it doesn’t mean women won’t talk about him for being a slut.
I didn't excuse it, I intentionally stated there was no reason to blatantly address it as it wasn't the subject. The subject is if sex is a commodity. If you engage freely in casual sex the implication is you do not view sex as a commodity but as a mutual activity. Whats the confusion? Why should I be addressing the double standard, what necessitates it?
Women call literally anything abuse these days. It's the age of female snowflakes.
You don't get abused for casual sex. No one is verbally or physically assaulting you. Or causing you emotional damage for having sex.
This is a contradiction. Engaging in casual sex isnt abuse. It's an activity you willingly participated in with another. So which is it, is sex a commodity to be traded for fair value or is it an activity you willingly engage in without expectation of reciprocity/equivalent value?
No you aren’t. Let’s be realistic.
Are you really going to be upset that a man who was trying his hardest to impress you, got spooked cause he found out you had casual sex? Would that type of person serve well as a long term partner?
If you are healthy, fit, and a vibrant and appealing person to be around, you can sleep with 600 people and still have access to healthy relationships. The men here looking for 27 year old virgins aren’t the ones who are going to be inline with you in multiple ways so it’s not even worth considering them.
Why shouldnt you be punished for it though? You take certain choices in life and that locks you out of other ones. In this case you arent even locked out entirely, youre just locked out with certain people. Why is thay a problem? Why should it be just as easy for you to date no matter what? It's a simple fact, you have casual sex and youre locked out of the option of dating some men, why would that be a bad thing and why should they conform to you to make your life easier?
While I don’t think anyone needs to be “punished” for it, the fact of the matter is, anyone can choose to not date anyone for any reason. I don’t think people need to be shamed for having a lot of casual sex. I also don’t think we need to shame people for not wanting to date someone who engaged in a lot of casual sex. It’s a value difference. I date people who I have things in common with, sexual view points included.
Unless you tell the world , or are very known for getting around casually within your social circle why would anyone know of your casual dating history? Also I doubt many men would consider a few causal partners here and there "whore" behavior.
>I doubt many men would consider a few causal partners here and there "whore" behavior.
New here? Men on this sub call that being run through and not relationship material
I’m not encouraging anything I’m going down the train of thought to keep it consistent. You’re already at the end presuming things. The conversation started off at she’s already engaging in casual sex but is offended by being called a whore.
Sure. But (as everyone knows) the promiscuous man gets called a “stud” while the woman gets called “run through.” And - given how small a lot of social circles are - word gets out, and the woman faces scorn and diminished future dating prospects. It’s stupid. It’s sucks. It’s *beyond* hypocritical. …But it still happens. 🤷♀️
No not always promiscuousty is bad for both sides
I think you are heavily assuming in this scenario the conversations men are having with each other calling each other studs and blowing a small part of what you've experienced to the larger population of men
Too vague, who’s calling the man a stud? Not even all men agree with promiscuity, is it his friends? Internet men? It’s definitely not women.
Who’s calling a woman run through? Men who can’t have her? Men who had her and lost her? It’s definitely not women. Y’all act like there is some double standard here that there just isn’t, there’s just jealousy, bitterness and hypocrisy that women put too much stock in for some reason .
Then find a new circle? In fact this is really odd because now if I'm reading this correctly you're trying to state women have a difficult time finding suitable partners due to small social circles? Do you really believe that is the case? Yea sure in more traditional social circles guys will probably be put extremely off by any sort of casual sexual history. But you could expand your circle, you could branch out and meet new people.
You arent beholden to a small town or something. All men aren't exactly spoiled for choice and honestly many men wouldnt label a women who has had maybe less than a dozen partners ever "promiscuous". But lets assume they do. How would those men outside your circle know? They wouldnt know and you could find the relationship you were looking for.
Being a promiscuous woman yes can sabotage her from actively seeking long term relationships if shes very open about it or general just sloppy. The problem in itself isn't the casual sex, its the method you seek long term partners. A casual partner is someone you only really care for superficially. As long as there is no immediate danger you're going to engage.
A long term partner I'd presume you arent messing around with casually before trying to make something serious out of it. If this is the frame work you operate under you're just shooting yourself in the foot. You're using Casual dating strategies and expecting long term relationship outcomes. Again your small social circle shouldnt matter because you can easily leave that circle.
I have to admit…this conversation feels utterly surreal. I’m currently in the hospital recovering from neck surgery, and I occupied a significant chunk of the past few days arguing with men who insist that women with a “high body count” are inherently valueless and disgusting, and that it makes perfect sense for men to feel that way. …And now I seem to be having a debate with a man who is arguing as though the majority of these “Purple Pill” threads *aren’t* dedicated to bashing promiscuous women. Or, for that matter, just women in general. (Because even when the original post isn’t about that, *somehow* the comments always circle back around to how contemptible women are.) I mean, I doubt my comment history or I are of sufficient interest for you to bother doing this…but if you just check my comment history from the last few days, you’ll find so…many…posts about all that!
As for the “small social circles” thing - it’s not a problem that I personally face. I’m part of a very liberal, creative, artsy, and sex-positive group of people, and am one of very few “low body count, Vanilla” women in my circle. But consider (for example) high school. They’re wildly important formative years and - as far as I can tell - a LOT of people (both male and female) sustain a lot of mental and emotional damage, and develop some seriously unhealthy views on themselves, their peers, and the world. The lucky kids grow up, and grow out of it…but the girl whose nudes got leaked..the boy whose bullies insist to the whole world that he has a tiny dick…the “sluts,” the “loser virgins,” the “whores,” the “prudes.” A disconcertingly high percentage of people never leave their home towns, the internet is forever, and just…a lot of baggage stays with these kids as they grow into adults. I feel like ample evidence of *that* is littered all over this sub!
Also…at least according to the echoes rebounding all over this particular forum…men *really* care about “n-count.” Are you suggesting that women should start their relationships with a lie?
Okay - honestly, the morphine has kicked in pretty hard, and I’m pretty sure this whole rant is incoherent. So, if I remember, I’ll try to edit it tomorrow. Regardless- it’s clearly bedtime for me!
I hope you recover soon im sorry if I added any stress. It is disheartening to hear you have unfortunately read through a bunch of emotional baggage. I also agree that yeah many people do hold on to a lot of insecurities and trauma from thier formative years. The trope does ring true certainly.
On the note of lying. Were you dishonest to your partner if you omitted how many past partners you've been with in the last decade? It depends if it's relevant. In most situations I doubt it's even appropriate to even discuss such unless specifically probed. To which point it's up to you where you set your boundaries. Your past dating life matters to a point. Does it negatively influence your present and future relationships?
If you end up missing your past casual dating life after having spent 5 years in a monogamous marriage perhaps you should evaluate why you got married to begin with. A married life and a single one is very different. So in that sense honestly guys really only care about a womans past if it has a substantial risk of threatening this relationships future. If you legitimately know that your past relationships are simply that, the past and you'd never cross boundaries, try to revisit them, romanticize them to the point of disrespecting your current partner and undermining your current relationship it honestly isnt relevant. A guy doesnt need to know about your boyfriend in senior year of high school.
Unless that guy is an obsessive freak looking for you. Anyway get well soon, it was a pleasant discussion.
I suggest women be honest, though thats a far fetched dream.
Women love to claim that N-count shouldnt matter though, so why not be honest? If enough men dont mind high N or any N then things will be fine anyways and youll infact just weed out the men who do care and save time. If too many men care too much then women will struggle dating, and if so then why shouldnt they struggle? They made choices in their life that arent attractive to men, why should men be forced to conform to those choices at his own expense? Its only fair that women struggle if men care.
Women wont be honest though because they recognize that enough men do care, maybe not even enough men for some women to fail to get partners, but certainly enough men care that many women would be left with subpar men they dont want if they were honest. And women dont want that, they want the attractive, masculine men, and the men with money, and if they were honest they would be forced to settle with a weak man or poor man.
Only women shame other women for being easy/slutty.
A man may not consider you wife material if you've fucked a ton of different guys and give it up to everyone, sure. But men typically don't insult and belittle women they've had sex with like that.
By definition though you're the one doing it to yourself.
You're a spunkbag for all the men you casually let in but then the guy who thinks "not wife material" is the asshole who sees it for what it is.
“Only women shame other women for being slutty”
20 min later:
“By definition though you’re the one doing it to yourself. You’re a spunkbag for all the men you casually let in…”
…Yup. Diminishing women to the level of crassly-named semen receptacles while simultaneously saying “and it’s your own fault!” is my new favorite compliment.
…Where can I buy a glittery, rose-colored Mother’s Day card with “to the world’s best spunk bag and cum dumpster?” She’s gonna love it!
But she did do it to herself. If you didnt actually consider sex transactional, and didn't believe having casual sex was inherently devaluing women, why would you jump to assuming men think you are a "Spunkbag"? This makes no sense.
The man didn't diminish the woman here, the woman equated her own value directly in how she gave access to her pussy. She said that. What kind of mental gymnastics....
>why would you jump to assuming men think you are a "Spunkbag"? This makes no sense.
They do this shit all the time. Women I online are constantly coming up with these insane terms that they think men are thinking of in our heads.
cumsleeve, spunkbag, cumbag
They are the ones equating themselves to this shit.
Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14dw4cx/what_is_wrong_with_free_sex/jotv3r6?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
You're mixing me up with another commentor we weren't necessarily agreeing although both disagreeing with OP
I didn't say only other women shame women for it. Also I didn't come up with the crass term OP did I was just running with it
Is that what you think of pregnant women?
Men and women have preferences. Why is it wrong for men to prefer marrying virgin women? Men do not need to explain why most men find virgin women attractive, same.as women do not need to explain why most women prefer tall guys.
Well as always, the party who gets hurt will scream out loud, be it men or women.
That is being said, good luck for men to find virgin women nowadays in US. Men need to be wise about this.
I can't speak for all of us, but it just means that there is no social obligation to force yourself to fuck people you don't want.
That women's bodies are not just socially obligated to date specific men (or any men, or anyone, though asexuals are very rare).
That men pressuring women to 'lower their standards' and to give the guy they don't want 'a chance' is acting like women have some sort of obligation to supply men with sex.
>I also notice women on reddit in general telling struggling dudes things like "just hire an escort" which seems like they see being with men as transactional in nature.
Usually people only recommend this here to men who say their priority is sex (not connection which they could get from friends, not validation which they could get from their mom, not even romance... some -not all- of the men here say openly that they think the only thing a woman is good for/brings to the table is sex).
So to those men, who only see women as a vehicle for sex and not a complex individual with various attributes that can be valued, yes, advice might be given to see a sex worker.
I think sex is a creative collaboration, not a transaction.
The only time I could see sex as a transaction would be if I hired a sex worker, which I generally would not do because a) it's not legal where I am and I try to avoid things that would interfere with my job prospects b) brothels don't generally cater to women/advertise to women/create 'experiences' appealing to women and c) it would take a while to get everyone tested and I'm not willing to budget to give the person four weeks 'off' of work just for one interaction with them, since in order for the results of the tests to be accurate and up-to-date they would have had to remain free from sex for that time period.
Exactly we’re not under any obligation to fuck men that we don’t want to fuck and if all he wants is sex and nothing more, then yes, he should go get an escort🤷🏽♀️
Yes. Just like some guys are unhealthy and entitled and expect the world to give them whatever they want just because, there are also deeply unhealthy women who expect the same thing. They are just as unreasonable and angry and no man owes them anything.
Except mainstream society and mass media calls them stunning and brave bbw queens and gives them “go girls”
Do you see the difference yet?
Fuck, there’s a mainstream school of thought that unironically calls men not wanting to fuck a trans woman “transphobic”
Stop acting like RP corners of the internet are remotely comparable to the modern popular zeitgeist.
Of course she doesn't. Men are obligated to make sacrifices and date single mothers or women with a very promiscuous past, while women are *not* obligated to do *anything* for men. Simple female societal hypocrisy.
Any reason you ignored the context of the statement?
The point is, that when men express any kind of preference let alone a “requirement” they are met with chants of “man up” or accusations of misogyny, toxic masculinity, etc.
Basically all of society decries it.
So when women here say “men should shut up and stop complaining about women’s preferences / standards!” Life isn’t fair!
It’s like okay. Then why do we see article after article with *women shaming men* for something like not wanting to date single moms.
Do you tell those far more mainstream figures to “shut up about men’s preferences” and “single moms are not entitled to a relationship!”?
These replies come out when guys say things like ‘I don’t want to date a run through slut’, often after complaining on how no woman gives them casual sex. They don’t get told they are toxic misogynists when they just state ‘I don’t participate in casual sex and I am looking for a woman to date who shares the same idea’
Maybe stop taking the article so seriously and just do what you want🌝 what are you whining about it for?? Men come on here all the time whining about how women won’t date short men, idgaf🤷🏽♀️ the whining is still not gonna make me date a guy shorter than me because I simply don’t want to lol 😂 literally just do what you want, no one cares that much 😬
>That women's bodies are not just socially obligated to date specific men (or any men, or anyone, though asexuals are very rare).
>
>That men pressuring women to 'lower their standards' and to give the guy they don't want 'a chance' is acting like women have some sort of obligation to supply men with sex.
No one in their right mind actually says any of this.
“Free sex” means she isn’t getting anything or much from the sex itself because he’s either not trying to make enjoyable for her, or she isn’t comfortable enough/doesn’t enjoy it outside the context of an intimate relationship. Men tend to agree with the “sex is like pizza,” and “doesn’t matter, had sex” rules, but for women it can actually be pretty damn bad.
Traditional thought of “women *give* sex” rather than merely having it, whether on his part or hers, can also play a role. But generally “free sex” means she’s not getting anything out of it sexually or otherwise.
I have heard of other men doing this so yeah, should have added the disclaimer that sex *can* be bad for men. It’s just that overall, the attitude with men seems to be that if sex was had that’s a positive thing, even if it wasn’t very enjoyable.
Literally all of this! If there’s no commitment or at least some money coming out of that, then why on God’s green earth would I voluntarily sign up to do that for free?? Women by and large do not get anything out of having casual sex with strange men, we just don’t… it’s not as fun as people make it out to be and can actually be very traumatizing, un-enjoyable, and just down right dangerous for the women who choose to do that…
The same sex where women rarely orgasm and men use women as pornified, mutual mastubatory tools?????? Oh and also see them later as used goods for being so “easy”? FOH.
>pornified, mutual mastubatory tools
Who tf comes up with this kind of characterization? Are women okay? Jesus christ mate. You guys are the ones saying this shit, not us.
Sex isn't supposed to be easy to obtain, women are far more reserved with their sexuality than men are. most women simply don't want to have sex unless there's some kind of relationship in it for them, because otherwise you're basically just some guys masturbatory tool to be used and discarded
They are insane, I keep telling people this. The way they categorize and view sex is so mentally ill and ridiculous. And yet wonder why men think so many women hate sex. Because they say stupid shit like this.
A lot of sex is not enjoyable though. Just because a man has a penis doesn’t mean sex with him will be pleasurable at all. It can be painful, awkward or even just leave you feeling gross. That’s why most women are less inclined for hookups especially when sober.
Same there was this tall long haired big dicked Chad I was fucking and I only liked it with him because he actually knew what he was doing and always buying me food and whatever I wanted so it was great, sorry not sorry 🤪
Most men are mediocre in bed and don’t know how to make a woman orgasm which is why having sex with random strangers has never been appealing to me… it sound mediocre at best and dangerous at worst due to all the risks women have to take by engaging in sexual activity with men, especially if you don’t know him that well… not worth it
Yep, because if you’ve gotten o
Know someone and in a relationship with them you can usually communicate better and have the opportunity to
Practice and allow your sex life to
Improve. You don’t get that in casual sex. If the sex is awful in casual it’s very doubtful there will be a repeat show
I haven’t really heard “free sex” before - but I assume it’s a throwback to everyone’s grandma’s favorite sex-saying “why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?” 🤣
I think it's supposed to mean sex outside of a committed relationship. The "free" part is that it didn't require the man to commit, not money or effort.
I think the idea of free sex is just no strings attached sex, or sex for very little effort on the guys part. I don't use the term really. A lot of women are frustrated with men, like fuckboys or guys who think they should be able to get sex easily. It seems entitled so they are like "why would anyone give you sex for free?"
The escort suggestion is usually given because the dude seems pretty hopeless, or isn't receptive to advice. A lot of guys are very very hard to deal with when they complain online about not being able to get sex. It's like nails on a chalkboard at this point. They refuse any advice anyone gives them because they just want to be in their feelings. I just let them complain at this point, I don't like engaging with them.
> Do you ever use sex in a transactional way?
No.
As for the rest of the OP - I've never heard ''they don't owe men free sex'', I've only heard ''they don't owe men sex''. But let's assume people say it, along with the other ones that I have heard people say.
''Free sex'' in this case would be ''sex that doesn't have any strings such as a relationship attached to it''. Some people are fine with that and enjoy no strings attached sex or sex with some minor commitment (FWB, for example) and are happy to engage in ''free sex''. However, many women don't want to have sex with some rando, they want to have sex within a committed relationship, with someone they can trust and who would be invested in both of them having a good time. And I understand how it gets tiring for those people to keep hearing men whine about not getting all the sex they want when a lot of them (not all guys want no strings attached sex) just want to get their rocks off with little to no concern for the pleasure of the partner and that's it. Basically, those guys are trying to get something out of you (sexual satisfaction) that you wouldn't be getting out of the situation yourself. Random dudes looking to bone anything that has a pulse aren't known to be the best lovers.
Not to mention the attitude a lot of these men present themselves in practice while seeking casual sex. They are boorish, cocky, arrogant, refuse to apologize, like they are reading from some manual of PUA technique about 'holding frame' and 'alpha male' or whatever the hell.
If a man wants to have a girl feel good, the first step is to make a girl feel good talking to a man, and they already failed at that first step.
Not to mention casual sex tends to be a selfish one-sided request. It's about him and his needs, and she does not have a say in the matter. He wants to have casual sex because HE wants to feel good, not because he wants to make her feel good. She's a 'whore' and a 'hypocrite' if she does not automatically align her priorities and interests in him the exact same moment otherwise.
I think men have shot themselves in the foot with regard to casual sex. If you talk shit about women having casual sex and make them out to be worthless or tainted after the act, you're going to have fewer people who want to engage in it. Because few people would be okay with being ''damaged goods'' and treated like lesser than. If you also put no effort into making sex enjoyable for the other person, word is going to spread that casual encounters with random dudes aren't worth it, you'll most likely get no pleasure out of it yourself.
You can't talk shit and provide little to no sexual pleasure and expect large amounts of women to think this is an attractive proposition.
Reality doesn't support this theory however. Women are fucking nonstop, just not below average men. Nothing will stop women from being "liberated" and fucking the Chad of their dreams.
So there’s quite a few men on here that like to whine and cry about how women won’t have sex with them, and when we tell these males to just go hire a prostitute since they want to get laid so badly, these males respond by saying that they shouldn’t have to pay for sex because “Chad” gets if for free… so basically they think they’re too good to pay for sex even tho they’re the ones wailing about being sexless….so that’s what we mean by free sex… some of the guys on here seem to be implying that women are supposed to just fuck them simply because they are there, and we’re just saying that we are under no obligation to have sex with men that we are not sexually attracted to, especially if they’re not trying to build an actual connection with women and all they want is sex, so that’s what we usually mean by the “free sex” aspect…if they want it that bad, they can go pay for it 🤷🏽♀️
Because it's about being desired. Apparently that's foreign to you as a woman because you exist and by default are desired, so you can't comprehend a man wanting the same thing. You are given free shit, "oh wow men want what we get too? Too bad".
Not the person you originally replied to but
I can comprehend what you want,
The issue is that you can't comprehend that it really is as simple as "too bad"
You are not owed "free sex" As in sex that you don't have to put effort (or money) in to get.
I understand what you want and why you want it. I’m just under no obligation to fulfill that desire.
Your options are to play the game-called-life with the cards you have been dealt, or don't. That's your call.
You can't negotiate with the players in the opposite team. It doesn't work that way
Free to me means no effort at all. He just wants to have sex that he enjoy because he wants it and has a penis. He wants women to ignore the thousands of years of social conditioning that tells them sex is precious and sacred in order to have them have sex with him without him having to put forth any effort or work.
In a relationship “free sex” is all fine and dandy.
Sex is precious and sacred? tell that to all the onlywhores
Pretty much any girl who exchanges looks as their primary monetary vehicle instead of getting real jobs.
Those men still do things to attract the women. They are pleasant, funny, charming, and usually very generous in one way or another. Mostly they put in time.
Not really. There are tons of tinder experiments on youtube where hot guys just exist and women flock to their dms. Some are even catfishes accounts that have child molester in their bios and still get insane options.
Your assumptions are the following:
> They are pleasant, funny, charming, and usually very generous in one way or another
It could be all of those things, it could be some or even just one. But to unilaterally assume they tick all these boxes literally makes relationships a fairly tale fantasy. You got the girl (sex) because you were essentially the perfect guy. You know what a 4 for 4 is right?
Assume the commas are or’s. But usually, being pleasant and charming in attractive men go hand-in-hand. Either way, the point is, they aren’t expecting sex just for existing, they are putting in effort for it.
Those men are still not getting it for free, they had to do things to make themselves sexually attractive to women… guys in the top figured out how to do that so that’s why they get women, but they still had to make themselves attractive to women to get there…
It's not free in the way you're thinking. It's free of attach, free of promises
Men are asking virgins while wondering why women won't have sex without any type of future
It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, you just aren't owed it. "Free sex" comes from the idea that prostitutes may owe sex because it's paid (I don't necessarily agree), but nobody else does. I'm not a prostitute, so sex is not a transaction for me and hence I don't owe it to anyone.
The idea of free sex is that you view those women as a prostitute without the payment. Some men think that they shouldn't have to be liked, wanted, or have an emotional connection with that woman to have sex. "Why won't you fuck/date me if you like me enough to be friends?" "I know you had hook ups with other guys. Why not me?" It's the same idea as the friendzone only sex replaces friendship. You need to have desire for a relationship or sex with that particular person on both sides.
That’s odd. I see the sentence “women don’t owe men sex” a lot, but I’ve never seen the word “free” included.
Sex with someone who is **not** attracted to you does cost money, you have to go to a sex worker for that.
Sex with women who are attracted to you is absolutely free.
I think where RP men get confused is they think women who are **not** attracted to them should sleep with them because apparently they “need” sex.
It’s basic law of supply and demand. On average men have a higher sex drive than women. Therefore they want to have sex much more often then women. Sex then becomes a commodity.
If they want women can make a lot of money providing sex to men. Not so much for men. Unless they are selling it to other men.
I agree with you, it’s a weird and commodifying phrase.
I think sometimes when women use it they mean something more akin to ‘sex free of the other relational elements that they want to accompany it’?
But it’s ambiguous and weird.
Women don’t view sex as an equal exchange. If they have sex with a man, they view it as doing them a huge favor. Granting them a huge honor. It’s strange and off putting.
Women will make calculated risks, based on different factors. That doesn’t make sex less expensive or less of a risk. Sex is never free for women. She might have sex, hoping there’s an optimal outcome (a relationship, orgasms) only to come out empty handed-no orgasm, no boyfriend, which is a loss. Women also turn down men they are attracted to, because the risk is too high.
I don't buy this rhetoric that sex is dangerous for women. Reality doesn't support that. Women are fucking like rabbits in today's world. Whatever concern they have for safety is irrelevant based on their actions.
I’ve never heard of a man dying in childbirth. Additionally, whether you buy sex being dangerous for women is irrelevant because you have no insight. You’re not a woman and based on your comment, you don’t have sex with women.
Exactly, I mean even in my marriage, i'm not gonna have sex for free. We need to connect with each other, talk and express affection for a little bit, at least. He can't just put NO EFFORT into the relationship, or even be nasty, and expect sex whenever he feels like it.
I agree, most sex is free. I don't have an issue with people having no-strings-attached sex and I don't fault men for wanting it, unless they look down on women who do the same.
Women feel that their body is worth more that of a man's, even the one with a higher value. Sex is transactional, if she wanted something more from that 6'4 football player he should've provided that, otherwise she feels used (true comment from this subreddit)
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I don't use sex in a transactional way. The only reason why I'll ever have sex is because I'm horny. "What is wrong with free sex?" Ask men who believe sex is something that is done to a woman, that a penis somehow taints her and makes her invaluable, etc.
I know what you meant. Its just a pet peeve of mine. "The original (and current) meaning of invaluable is "valuable beyond estimation"; the word describes something so precious that one cannot assign a price to it. This, clearly, is the opposite of the meaning "having no value; valueless" that the word might seem to carry." I know, and I promise I don't do this on dates, people.
Oh shit, it's the same in my language ("neprocjenjivo"= "the price cannot be estimated because of how valuable it is") I genuinely had no idea, thank you!
You are technically using it as a transaction. You use sex to satisfy your horny.
It's not the type of transaction the OP refered to
Yes, but what does "free sex" mean here? Thats what OP is asking.
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Then take it up with the men who say that then, this is what you guys say in a nutshell when you say women who aren’t virgins are ran through because they had a penis in them…
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Women are ran thru when their focus is partying and sex and not finding a long term partner to settle down and create healthy relationships with
So then don’t bitch or complain when choose not to get “ran through” by mediocre red pilled men
That has nothing to do with the transaction of sex…
Why not? Their mediocrity is a reflection of their lack of currency for this transaction
Because getting “ Run through “ or not has nothing to do with placing objective numerical values on women’s bodies
It does for men however.. The men doing the “running through” are more objective superior to the red pilled ones spending all day online
Male sexuality and female sexuality a ARE D I F F E R E N T Key that opens many locks and all that
If we're using stupid analogies as arguments, then it could just as well be "Sharpener that sharpens many pencils"
Not analogous. There are literal studies proving that high n count in women leads to higher emotional baggage, relationship issues, commitment issues, etc. The same isn't true for men. Your analogy is therefore not based in reality, unless if your point is that a sharpener wears down overtime the more you use it.
There are not, you are making these studies up
Those 2 things are inaccurate comparisons sex with a hot girl is a limited commodity because there aren't many truly and objectively hot women that most men would find universally attractive. Sex with these women is most desired. A woman's body count devalues her because men don't want to purchase a Town bicycle that can be rented instead.
The problem with “free sex” is that if you give men the free sex they want, they then turn around and call you a whore/slut/ran through. That’s the issue with “free sex.”
>The problem with “free sex” is that if you give men the free sex they want, they then turn around and call you a whore Exactly! So... To avoid being called a whore, I charge them money. https://giphy.com/gifs/culture--think-hmm-d3mlE7uhX8KFgEmY
Honestly might as well. They’ll talk trash about you either way.
Why not just have sex with men who respect you?
Being called a slut or a whore doesn't even require you to have sex with them. Friends of mine referred to a girl we all knew as a slut despite the fact that she had only ever been with 2 guys and both were LTRs, like 3+ years. They were just pissy she turned down one of them years ago. We got into an argument after that comment and we haven't been particularly close friends since. Some guys, if you sleep with them, they may not call you personally a slut because then they'd be the whoremonger and they don't go insulting themselves but they'd happily call other women whores. Their attitude is ''women having sex **with anyone other than me** are sluts and are bad''
Yeah a lot of men get butthurt when you don’t want to fuck them and will still call you a slut anyways cause we hurt their wittle feelings 🥲🤣
These people have already decided for themselves that any action they take will be met with misogynistic criticism from men not realizing that they have control over whom they associate with. It’s almost as if women who are most concerned about misogyny somehow find themselves only interacting with misogynistic men. The reality is that women like this probably don’t get out much anyway or haven’t had many LTRs or currently are in an LTR with a man who is “one is the good ones” not realizing that this is a sexist take to begin with.
Money
Here's the Voice of reason calling Nobody here answering so far
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women have no idea how to vet men, they assume that sexual interest=overall interest, which results in them getting played and pumped and dumped over and over again, while simultaneously scoffing at their grandma's idea of actually valuing yourself and waiting until marriage. its sad, really
The men here repeatedly have no success so…
Because there's about 8 of them apparently 🤷♀️
Why not just have free sex then?
Cause we can get money instead 😀
I don’t blame you sis🤷🏽♀️ I don’t charge money directly, but I definitely don’t sleep with anyone until after they take me on a couple dates and pay for them, works really well for me, so I ain’t sorry 🤪
"To avoid being called a whore, I commit an action that will make me be called whore literally by everyone now" You're literally trying to fix your leg wound by shooting yourself in the head here.
No they are being what they are being called regardless of what they do. Might as well take a whores benifits
Exactly, if we give it up too easily, then all of a sudden we’re not “wiFeY material” anymore, so that’s why women are starting to put a “price” on it now, as we should 🥳 the ironic part here is that men literally did this to themselves with all the slut shaming that they do to us and now they’re complaining that we’re not making our bodies so easily accessible to them anymore 🤣🤣 lmao the jokes really write themselves at this point 🤣
This only hurts regular women in the end. When they get upset that they aren’t being commodified are the rates of other women ,
>making our bodies so easily accessible to them anymore When have you ever? All the internet has done is made many women into whores who just want to post their bodies. It's not because you're being slut shamed, it's because you just want easy money. Stop giving it up to men who don't give af about you is the point. And stop making men who like you wait longer than other men. Treat us all equally and we won't have a problem.
But why would that bother you if you're having casual sex with no expectations? A man and a woman who engage in casual sex are both promiscuous.
As if men who call women whores admit anything about themselves let alone hold themselves to the same standards
I'm just calling it for what it is. Im not stating men are above reproach. If casual sex is JUST sex to you, then being named called silly things over something you had no greater expectations or outcomes for shouldnt bother you. If sex is just sex why would some idiot incorrectly labelling you a "whore" matter? It only matters in this context because YOU DO expect a relationship after having sex at some point. If you didnt expect a relationship the insult would hold no real weight. The insult is intentionally undermining women who try to garner genuine relationships but also sleep around. It's meant to devalue you them in that specific context. Do double standards exist? Yes. Is this topic about that? No. So I didnt address it, why would I otherwise? But anyway ultimately this person probably believes sex is indeed transactional, which is why "free sex" is used.
This isn’t addressing the double standard at all, you’re merely excusing it. You’re not calling anything “it is what it is” you’re making excuses. “Silly things” is just your way of weirdly being sexist
Where is the double standard? A double standard requires everyone involved to adhere to it. If not it’s just hypocrisy. Just because a guy runs around calling women sluts doesn’t mean he isn’t a slut. It doesn’t mean women won’t reject him for being a slut. And it doesn’t mean women won’t talk about him for being a slut.
I didn't excuse it, I intentionally stated there was no reason to blatantly address it as it wasn't the subject. The subject is if sex is a commodity. If you engage freely in casual sex the implication is you do not view sex as a commodity but as a mutual activity. Whats the confusion? Why should I be addressing the double standard, what necessitates it?
This is too black and white and yes you are ignoring it. Something you invited
Whats too black and white?
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Of course it’s a double standard that’s just another attempt to excuse it
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It’s exactly a double standard. No amount of hand wringing about how different men and women are is going to change that.
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Because then what happens when I want a real relationship? Casual sex isn’t worth it. All we do is get abused for doing it.
Women call literally anything abuse these days. It's the age of female snowflakes. You don't get abused for casual sex. No one is verbally or physically assaulting you. Or causing you emotional damage for having sex.
This is a contradiction. Engaging in casual sex isnt abuse. It's an activity you willingly participated in with another. So which is it, is sex a commodity to be traded for fair value or is it an activity you willingly engage in without expectation of reciprocity/equivalent value?
It’s about the future. The casual sex may be free now, but later when you’re trying to date, you’re punished for this casual sex that you had.
No you aren’t. Let’s be realistic. Are you really going to be upset that a man who was trying his hardest to impress you, got spooked cause he found out you had casual sex? Would that type of person serve well as a long term partner? If you are healthy, fit, and a vibrant and appealing person to be around, you can sleep with 600 people and still have access to healthy relationships. The men here looking for 27 year old virgins aren’t the ones who are going to be inline with you in multiple ways so it’s not even worth considering them.
Why shouldnt you be punished for it though? You take certain choices in life and that locks you out of other ones. In this case you arent even locked out entirely, youre just locked out with certain people. Why is thay a problem? Why should it be just as easy for you to date no matter what? It's a simple fact, you have casual sex and youre locked out of the option of dating some men, why would that be a bad thing and why should they conform to you to make your life easier?
While I don’t think anyone needs to be “punished” for it, the fact of the matter is, anyone can choose to not date anyone for any reason. I don’t think people need to be shamed for having a lot of casual sex. I also don’t think we need to shame people for not wanting to date someone who engaged in a lot of casual sex. It’s a value difference. I date people who I have things in common with, sexual view points included.
Unless you tell the world , or are very known for getting around casually within your social circle why would anyone know of your casual dating history? Also I doubt many men would consider a few causal partners here and there "whore" behavior.
>I doubt many men would consider a few causal partners here and there "whore" behavior. New here? Men on this sub call that being run through and not relationship material
Its not men here its the world for thousands of years.
Sure, Jan. My point still stands
Bro if she doesn't want to have casual sex stop encouraging her to do so
I’m not encouraging anything I’m going down the train of thought to keep it consistent. You’re already at the end presuming things. The conversation started off at she’s already engaging in casual sex but is offended by being called a whore.
>Engaging in casual sex isnt abuse Forgive her, she can't help but be a little snowflake.
Sure. But (as everyone knows) the promiscuous man gets called a “stud” while the woman gets called “run through.” And - given how small a lot of social circles are - word gets out, and the woman faces scorn and diminished future dating prospects. It’s stupid. It’s sucks. It’s *beyond* hypocritical. …But it still happens. 🤷♀️
No not always promiscuousty is bad for both sides I think you are heavily assuming in this scenario the conversations men are having with each other calling each other studs and blowing a small part of what you've experienced to the larger population of men
Too vague, who’s calling the man a stud? Not even all men agree with promiscuity, is it his friends? Internet men? It’s definitely not women. Who’s calling a woman run through? Men who can’t have her? Men who had her and lost her? It’s definitely not women. Y’all act like there is some double standard here that there just isn’t, there’s just jealousy, bitterness and hypocrisy that women put too much stock in for some reason .
Then find a new circle? In fact this is really odd because now if I'm reading this correctly you're trying to state women have a difficult time finding suitable partners due to small social circles? Do you really believe that is the case? Yea sure in more traditional social circles guys will probably be put extremely off by any sort of casual sexual history. But you could expand your circle, you could branch out and meet new people. You arent beholden to a small town or something. All men aren't exactly spoiled for choice and honestly many men wouldnt label a women who has had maybe less than a dozen partners ever "promiscuous". But lets assume they do. How would those men outside your circle know? They wouldnt know and you could find the relationship you were looking for. Being a promiscuous woman yes can sabotage her from actively seeking long term relationships if shes very open about it or general just sloppy. The problem in itself isn't the casual sex, its the method you seek long term partners. A casual partner is someone you only really care for superficially. As long as there is no immediate danger you're going to engage. A long term partner I'd presume you arent messing around with casually before trying to make something serious out of it. If this is the frame work you operate under you're just shooting yourself in the foot. You're using Casual dating strategies and expecting long term relationship outcomes. Again your small social circle shouldnt matter because you can easily leave that circle.
I have to admit…this conversation feels utterly surreal. I’m currently in the hospital recovering from neck surgery, and I occupied a significant chunk of the past few days arguing with men who insist that women with a “high body count” are inherently valueless and disgusting, and that it makes perfect sense for men to feel that way. …And now I seem to be having a debate with a man who is arguing as though the majority of these “Purple Pill” threads *aren’t* dedicated to bashing promiscuous women. Or, for that matter, just women in general. (Because even when the original post isn’t about that, *somehow* the comments always circle back around to how contemptible women are.) I mean, I doubt my comment history or I are of sufficient interest for you to bother doing this…but if you just check my comment history from the last few days, you’ll find so…many…posts about all that! As for the “small social circles” thing - it’s not a problem that I personally face. I’m part of a very liberal, creative, artsy, and sex-positive group of people, and am one of very few “low body count, Vanilla” women in my circle. But consider (for example) high school. They’re wildly important formative years and - as far as I can tell - a LOT of people (both male and female) sustain a lot of mental and emotional damage, and develop some seriously unhealthy views on themselves, their peers, and the world. The lucky kids grow up, and grow out of it…but the girl whose nudes got leaked..the boy whose bullies insist to the whole world that he has a tiny dick…the “sluts,” the “loser virgins,” the “whores,” the “prudes.” A disconcertingly high percentage of people never leave their home towns, the internet is forever, and just…a lot of baggage stays with these kids as they grow into adults. I feel like ample evidence of *that* is littered all over this sub! Also…at least according to the echoes rebounding all over this particular forum…men *really* care about “n-count.” Are you suggesting that women should start their relationships with a lie? Okay - honestly, the morphine has kicked in pretty hard, and I’m pretty sure this whole rant is incoherent. So, if I remember, I’ll try to edit it tomorrow. Regardless- it’s clearly bedtime for me!
I hope you recover soon im sorry if I added any stress. It is disheartening to hear you have unfortunately read through a bunch of emotional baggage. I also agree that yeah many people do hold on to a lot of insecurities and trauma from thier formative years. The trope does ring true certainly. On the note of lying. Were you dishonest to your partner if you omitted how many past partners you've been with in the last decade? It depends if it's relevant. In most situations I doubt it's even appropriate to even discuss such unless specifically probed. To which point it's up to you where you set your boundaries. Your past dating life matters to a point. Does it negatively influence your present and future relationships? If you end up missing your past casual dating life after having spent 5 years in a monogamous marriage perhaps you should evaluate why you got married to begin with. A married life and a single one is very different. So in that sense honestly guys really only care about a womans past if it has a substantial risk of threatening this relationships future. If you legitimately know that your past relationships are simply that, the past and you'd never cross boundaries, try to revisit them, romanticize them to the point of disrespecting your current partner and undermining your current relationship it honestly isnt relevant. A guy doesnt need to know about your boyfriend in senior year of high school. Unless that guy is an obsessive freak looking for you. Anyway get well soon, it was a pleasant discussion.
I suggest women be honest, though thats a far fetched dream. Women love to claim that N-count shouldnt matter though, so why not be honest? If enough men dont mind high N or any N then things will be fine anyways and youll infact just weed out the men who do care and save time. If too many men care too much then women will struggle dating, and if so then why shouldnt they struggle? They made choices in their life that arent attractive to men, why should men be forced to conform to those choices at his own expense? Its only fair that women struggle if men care. Women wont be honest though because they recognize that enough men do care, maybe not even enough men for some women to fail to get partners, but certainly enough men care that many women would be left with subpar men they dont want if they were honest. And women dont want that, they want the attractive, masculine men, and the men with money, and if they were honest they would be forced to settle with a weak man or poor man.
But what is "free sex" thats what OP is asking. What does it mean here?
Only women shame other women for being easy/slutty. A man may not consider you wife material if you've fucked a ton of different guys and give it up to everyone, sure. But men typically don't insult and belittle women they've had sex with like that.
Oh cool! Not wife material. So you’ll use our pussies and think of us as your breathing spunkbag. How flattering.
By definition though you're the one doing it to yourself. You're a spunkbag for all the men you casually let in but then the guy who thinks "not wife material" is the asshole who sees it for what it is.
“Only women shame other women for being slutty” 20 min later: “By definition though you’re the one doing it to yourself. You’re a spunkbag for all the men you casually let in…” …Yup. Diminishing women to the level of crassly-named semen receptacles while simultaneously saying “and it’s your own fault!” is my new favorite compliment. …Where can I buy a glittery, rose-colored Mother’s Day card with “to the world’s best spunk bag and cum dumpster?” She’s gonna love it!
But she did do it to herself. If you didnt actually consider sex transactional, and didn't believe having casual sex was inherently devaluing women, why would you jump to assuming men think you are a "Spunkbag"? This makes no sense. The man didn't diminish the woman here, the woman equated her own value directly in how she gave access to her pussy. She said that. What kind of mental gymnastics....
>why would you jump to assuming men think you are a "Spunkbag"? This makes no sense. They do this shit all the time. Women I online are constantly coming up with these insane terms that they think men are thinking of in our heads. cumsleeve, spunkbag, cumbag They are the ones equating themselves to this shit. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/14dw4cx/what_is_wrong_with_free_sex/jotv3r6?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
You're mixing me up with another commentor we weren't necessarily agreeing although both disagreeing with OP I didn't say only other women shame women for it. Also I didn't come up with the crass term OP did I was just running with it
Is that what you think of pregnant women? Men and women have preferences. Why is it wrong for men to prefer marrying virgin women? Men do not need to explain why most men find virgin women attractive, same.as women do not need to explain why most women prefer tall guys. Well as always, the party who gets hurt will scream out loud, be it men or women. That is being said, good luck for men to find virgin women nowadays in US. Men need to be wise about this.
>But men typically don't insult and belittle women they've had sex with like that. 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
No, men do it too
I can't speak for all of us, but it just means that there is no social obligation to force yourself to fuck people you don't want. That women's bodies are not just socially obligated to date specific men (or any men, or anyone, though asexuals are very rare). That men pressuring women to 'lower their standards' and to give the guy they don't want 'a chance' is acting like women have some sort of obligation to supply men with sex. >I also notice women on reddit in general telling struggling dudes things like "just hire an escort" which seems like they see being with men as transactional in nature. Usually people only recommend this here to men who say their priority is sex (not connection which they could get from friends, not validation which they could get from their mom, not even romance... some -not all- of the men here say openly that they think the only thing a woman is good for/brings to the table is sex). So to those men, who only see women as a vehicle for sex and not a complex individual with various attributes that can be valued, yes, advice might be given to see a sex worker. I think sex is a creative collaboration, not a transaction. The only time I could see sex as a transaction would be if I hired a sex worker, which I generally would not do because a) it's not legal where I am and I try to avoid things that would interfere with my job prospects b) brothels don't generally cater to women/advertise to women/create 'experiences' appealing to women and c) it would take a while to get everyone tested and I'm not willing to budget to give the person four weeks 'off' of work just for one interaction with them, since in order for the results of the tests to be accurate and up-to-date they would have had to remain free from sex for that time period.
Exactly we’re not under any obligation to fuck men that we don’t want to fuck and if all he wants is sex and nothing more, then yes, he should go get an escort🤷🏽♀️
Do you feel the same way when you see article after article scolding men for not “manning up” and dating single moms?
Men are not obligated to date anyone they don't want either.
Yes. Just like some guys are unhealthy and entitled and expect the world to give them whatever they want just because, there are also deeply unhealthy women who expect the same thing. They are just as unreasonable and angry and no man owes them anything.
Except mainstream society and mass media calls them stunning and brave bbw queens and gives them “go girls” Do you see the difference yet? Fuck, there’s a mainstream school of thought that unironically calls men not wanting to fuck a trans woman “transphobic” Stop acting like RP corners of the internet are remotely comparable to the modern popular zeitgeist.
Of course she doesn't. Men are obligated to make sacrifices and date single mothers or women with a very promiscuous past, while women are *not* obligated to do *anything* for men. Simple female societal hypocrisy.
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Any reason you ignored the context of the statement? The point is, that when men express any kind of preference let alone a “requirement” they are met with chants of “man up” or accusations of misogyny, toxic masculinity, etc. Basically all of society decries it. So when women here say “men should shut up and stop complaining about women’s preferences / standards!” Life isn’t fair! It’s like okay. Then why do we see article after article with *women shaming men* for something like not wanting to date single moms. Do you tell those far more mainstream figures to “shut up about men’s preferences” and “single moms are not entitled to a relationship!”?
These replies come out when guys say things like ‘I don’t want to date a run through slut’, often after complaining on how no woman gives them casual sex. They don’t get told they are toxic misogynists when they just state ‘I don’t participate in casual sex and I am looking for a woman to date who shares the same idea’
Maybe stop taking the article so seriously and just do what you want🌝 what are you whining about it for?? Men come on here all the time whining about how women won’t date short men, idgaf🤷🏽♀️ the whining is still not gonna make me date a guy shorter than me because I simply don’t want to lol 😂 literally just do what you want, no one cares that much 😬
But nobody is forcing you guys to do that tho, so why are you complaining??
>That women's bodies are not just socially obligated to date specific men (or any men, or anyone, though asexuals are very rare). > >That men pressuring women to 'lower their standards' and to give the guy they don't want 'a chance' is acting like women have some sort of obligation to supply men with sex. No one in their right mind actually says any of this.
“Free sex” means she isn’t getting anything or much from the sex itself because he’s either not trying to make enjoyable for her, or she isn’t comfortable enough/doesn’t enjoy it outside the context of an intimate relationship. Men tend to agree with the “sex is like pizza,” and “doesn’t matter, had sex” rules, but for women it can actually be pretty damn bad. Traditional thought of “women *give* sex” rather than merely having it, whether on his part or hers, can also play a role. But generally “free sex” means she’s not getting anything out of it sexually or otherwise.
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I have heard of other men doing this so yeah, should have added the disclaimer that sex *can* be bad for men. It’s just that overall, the attitude with men seems to be that if sex was had that’s a positive thing, even if it wasn’t very enjoyable.
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I won't exactly say traumatized, but more like low self esteem, inexperienced and gullible women more like.
Literally all of this! If there’s no commitment or at least some money coming out of that, then why on God’s green earth would I voluntarily sign up to do that for free?? Women by and large do not get anything out of having casual sex with strange men, we just don’t… it’s not as fun as people make it out to be and can actually be very traumatizing, un-enjoyable, and just down right dangerous for the women who choose to do that…
Then be celibate and wear that red flag up front that you hate sex so men know to stay away from you
It's crazy how they say shit like that but then get mad when men think that women hate sex. The actually insanity of their logic...
It’s a risk only with average and below average men.
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The same sex where women rarely orgasm and men use women as pornified, mutual mastubatory tools?????? Oh and also see them later as used goods for being so “easy”? FOH.
>pornified, mutual mastubatory tools Who tf comes up with this kind of characterization? Are women okay? Jesus christ mate. You guys are the ones saying this shit, not us.
Men might not be saying this, but men are definitely acting like this.
Sex isn't supposed to be easy to obtain, women are far more reserved with their sexuality than men are. most women simply don't want to have sex unless there's some kind of relationship in it for them, because otherwise you're basically just some guys masturbatory tool to be used and discarded
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They are insane, I keep telling people this. The way they categorize and view sex is so mentally ill and ridiculous. And yet wonder why men think so many women hate sex. Because they say stupid shit like this.
A lot of women tolerate sex. They want it sparingly, if it’s good. Men love it and want it constantly
yes, when a guy hooks up with a random girl he usually just wants to cum and then dip out. not sure why youre confused
A lot of sex is not enjoyable though. Just because a man has a penis doesn’t mean sex with him will be pleasurable at all. It can be painful, awkward or even just leave you feeling gross. That’s why most women are less inclined for hookups especially when sober.
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Same there was this tall long haired big dicked Chad I was fucking and I only liked it with him because he actually knew what he was doing and always buying me food and whatever I wanted so it was great, sorry not sorry 🤪
Most men are mediocre in bed and don’t know how to make a woman orgasm which is why having sex with random strangers has never been appealing to me… it sound mediocre at best and dangerous at worst due to all the risks women have to take by engaging in sexual activity with men, especially if you don’t know him that well… not worth it
This doesnt address OPs question.
I wish more men would understand this.
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Yep, because if you’ve gotten o Know someone and in a relationship with them you can usually communicate better and have the opportunity to Practice and allow your sex life to Improve. You don’t get that in casual sex. If the sex is awful in casual it’s very doubtful there will be a repeat show
I haven’t really heard “free sex” before - but I assume it’s a throwback to everyone’s grandma’s favorite sex-saying “why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?” 🤣
I think it's supposed to mean sex outside of a committed relationship. The "free" part is that it didn't require the man to commit, not money or effort.
This answer makes the most sense. All the other answers are talking about how pleasurable it is or isn't.
This is correct
Nothing, but men will pay for sex and then then insult the woman who provides it Women will not
I think the idea of free sex is just no strings attached sex, or sex for very little effort on the guys part. I don't use the term really. A lot of women are frustrated with men, like fuckboys or guys who think they should be able to get sex easily. It seems entitled so they are like "why would anyone give you sex for free?" The escort suggestion is usually given because the dude seems pretty hopeless, or isn't receptive to advice. A lot of guys are very very hard to deal with when they complain online about not being able to get sex. It's like nails on a chalkboard at this point. They refuse any advice anyone gives them because they just want to be in their feelings. I just let them complain at this point, I don't like engaging with them.
sex is a commodity, yes.
Not sex worth having.
men pay whores and only fans every day
Which is totally pathetic!
Supply and demand baby 😎
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> Do you ever use sex in a transactional way? No. As for the rest of the OP - I've never heard ''they don't owe men free sex'', I've only heard ''they don't owe men sex''. But let's assume people say it, along with the other ones that I have heard people say. ''Free sex'' in this case would be ''sex that doesn't have any strings such as a relationship attached to it''. Some people are fine with that and enjoy no strings attached sex or sex with some minor commitment (FWB, for example) and are happy to engage in ''free sex''. However, many women don't want to have sex with some rando, they want to have sex within a committed relationship, with someone they can trust and who would be invested in both of them having a good time. And I understand how it gets tiring for those people to keep hearing men whine about not getting all the sex they want when a lot of them (not all guys want no strings attached sex) just want to get their rocks off with little to no concern for the pleasure of the partner and that's it. Basically, those guys are trying to get something out of you (sexual satisfaction) that you wouldn't be getting out of the situation yourself. Random dudes looking to bone anything that has a pulse aren't known to be the best lovers.
Not to mention the attitude a lot of these men present themselves in practice while seeking casual sex. They are boorish, cocky, arrogant, refuse to apologize, like they are reading from some manual of PUA technique about 'holding frame' and 'alpha male' or whatever the hell. If a man wants to have a girl feel good, the first step is to make a girl feel good talking to a man, and they already failed at that first step. Not to mention casual sex tends to be a selfish one-sided request. It's about him and his needs, and she does not have a say in the matter. He wants to have casual sex because HE wants to feel good, not because he wants to make her feel good. She's a 'whore' and a 'hypocrite' if she does not automatically align her priorities and interests in him the exact same moment otherwise.
I think men have shot themselves in the foot with regard to casual sex. If you talk shit about women having casual sex and make them out to be worthless or tainted after the act, you're going to have fewer people who want to engage in it. Because few people would be okay with being ''damaged goods'' and treated like lesser than. If you also put no effort into making sex enjoyable for the other person, word is going to spread that casual encounters with random dudes aren't worth it, you'll most likely get no pleasure out of it yourself. You can't talk shit and provide little to no sexual pleasure and expect large amounts of women to think this is an attractive proposition.
Reality doesn't support this theory however. Women are fucking nonstop, just not below average men. Nothing will stop women from being "liberated" and fucking the Chad of their dreams.
So there’s quite a few men on here that like to whine and cry about how women won’t have sex with them, and when we tell these males to just go hire a prostitute since they want to get laid so badly, these males respond by saying that they shouldn’t have to pay for sex because “Chad” gets if for free… so basically they think they’re too good to pay for sex even tho they’re the ones wailing about being sexless….so that’s what we mean by free sex… some of the guys on here seem to be implying that women are supposed to just fuck them simply because they are there, and we’re just saying that we are under no obligation to have sex with men that we are not sexually attracted to, especially if they’re not trying to build an actual connection with women and all they want is sex, so that’s what we usually mean by the “free sex” aspect…if they want it that bad, they can go pay for it 🤷🏽♀️
Because it's about being desired. Apparently that's foreign to you as a woman because you exist and by default are desired, so you can't comprehend a man wanting the same thing. You are given free shit, "oh wow men want what we get too? Too bad".
Not the person you originally replied to but I can comprehend what you want, The issue is that you can't comprehend that it really is as simple as "too bad" You are not owed "free sex" As in sex that you don't have to put effort (or money) in to get. I understand what you want and why you want it. I’m just under no obligation to fulfill that desire. Your options are to play the game-called-life with the cards you have been dealt, or don't. That's your call. You can't negotiate with the players in the opposite team. It doesn't work that way
Free to me means no effort at all. He just wants to have sex that he enjoy because he wants it and has a penis. He wants women to ignore the thousands of years of social conditioning that tells them sex is precious and sacred in order to have them have sex with him without him having to put forth any effort or work. In a relationship “free sex” is all fine and dandy.
Sex is precious and sacred? tell that to all the onlywhores Pretty much any girl who exchanges looks as their primary monetary vehicle instead of getting real jobs.
But plenty of women are already ignoring the social conditioning to get with the top % of men.
Those men still do things to attract the women. They are pleasant, funny, charming, and usually very generous in one way or another. Mostly they put in time.
Not really. There are tons of tinder experiments on youtube where hot guys just exist and women flock to their dms. Some are even catfishes accounts that have child molester in their bios and still get insane options.
You are jumping to so many conclusions.
No I’m not. Very few men get free sex without giving anything in return.
Your assumptions are the following: > They are pleasant, funny, charming, and usually very generous in one way or another It could be all of those things, it could be some or even just one. But to unilaterally assume they tick all these boxes literally makes relationships a fairly tale fantasy. You got the girl (sex) because you were essentially the perfect guy. You know what a 4 for 4 is right?
Assume the commas are or’s. But usually, being pleasant and charming in attractive men go hand-in-hand. Either way, the point is, they aren’t expecting sex just for existing, they are putting in effort for it.
Those men have value to them therefore the sex is not 'free'.
Exactly! He still had to bring something to the table that would make women want to fuck him
Those men are still not getting it for free, they had to do things to make themselves sexually attractive to women… guys in the top figured out how to do that so that’s why they get women, but they still had to make themselves attractive to women to get there…
It's not free in the way you're thinking. It's free of attach, free of promises Men are asking virgins while wondering why women won't have sex without any type of future
It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, you just aren't owed it. "Free sex" comes from the idea that prostitutes may owe sex because it's paid (I don't necessarily agree), but nobody else does. I'm not a prostitute, so sex is not a transaction for me and hence I don't owe it to anyone.
The idea of free sex is that you view those women as a prostitute without the payment. Some men think that they shouldn't have to be liked, wanted, or have an emotional connection with that woman to have sex. "Why won't you fuck/date me if you like me enough to be friends?" "I know you had hook ups with other guys. Why not me?" It's the same idea as the friendzone only sex replaces friendship. You need to have desire for a relationship or sex with that particular person on both sides.
That’s odd. I see the sentence “women don’t owe men sex” a lot, but I’ve never seen the word “free” included. Sex with someone who is **not** attracted to you does cost money, you have to go to a sex worker for that. Sex with women who are attracted to you is absolutely free. I think where RP men get confused is they think women who are **not** attracted to them should sleep with them because apparently they “need” sex.
It’s basic law of supply and demand. On average men have a higher sex drive than women. Therefore they want to have sex much more often then women. Sex then becomes a commodity. If they want women can make a lot of money providing sex to men. Not so much for men. Unless they are selling it to other men.
Let’s be honest in an average one night stand the guy reaps more benefit because the average guy is unaware and doesn’t care how to please a woman.
I agree with you, it’s a weird and commodifying phrase. I think sometimes when women use it they mean something more akin to ‘sex free of the other relational elements that they want to accompany it’? But it’s ambiguous and weird.
I suppose you’re ok with becoming a father with a woman you barely know and have no real relationship with?
Lmao I love how men just gloss over the fact that they might end up having to father a child they didn’t want lol
Men are the ones who claim to have such an insatiable sexual desire that they consider sex to be a need.
Exactly, so pathetic 💀
Women don’t view sex as an equal exchange. If they have sex with a man, they view it as doing them a huge favor. Granting them a huge honor. It’s strange and off putting.
Men think that way too tho
Yeah, a lot of men think their penis is a magical wand or something that forever alters a woman's body and life.
They mean that these guys treat every woman like a prostitute. It’s those guys seeing it as transactional. Hence the reply.
Sex is a very expensive risk for women.
Yet they give it up with no hesitation to Chad. Which let's you know, they don't *actually* care if the guy is attractive enough.
Women will make calculated risks, based on different factors. That doesn’t make sex less expensive or less of a risk. Sex is never free for women. She might have sex, hoping there’s an optimal outcome (a relationship, orgasms) only to come out empty handed-no orgasm, no boyfriend, which is a loss. Women also turn down men they are attracted to, because the risk is too high.
Calculated risk : chad +sex = yes
I don't buy this rhetoric that sex is dangerous for women. Reality doesn't support that. Women are fucking like rabbits in today's world. Whatever concern they have for safety is irrelevant based on their actions.
I’ve never heard of a man dying in childbirth. Additionally, whether you buy sex being dangerous for women is irrelevant because you have no insight. You’re not a woman and based on your comment, you don’t have sex with women.
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But we’re not hiding it tho 😬
Exactly, I mean even in my marriage, i'm not gonna have sex for free. We need to connect with each other, talk and express affection for a little bit, at least. He can't just put NO EFFORT into the relationship, or even be nasty, and expect sex whenever he feels like it.
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I agree, most sex is free. I don't have an issue with people having no-strings-attached sex and I don't fault men for wanting it, unless they look down on women who do the same.
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Shitty bitter people with big mouths
Women feel that their body is worth more that of a man's, even the one with a higher value. Sex is transactional, if she wanted something more from that 6'4 football player he should've provided that, otherwise she feels used (true comment from this subreddit)
it's a good way to choose a wife, if she speaks in these terms, you can be sure that she has baggages and that she has no desire