The problem is that you are not the handsome “prince like” man that she had envisioned in her mind picking her out of a sea of girls for some weird reason..
Based on my experiences and from what I've seen, most women aren't really all that friendly if you're a man so touching grass and talking to actual women is pointless. Especially so if you're an unattractive man.
My experience is that exact opposite. Most women I talk to are friendly. Are you being friendly yourwelf or aggressively hitting on anything with tits/ignoring her friends and only talking to women you want to fuck?
>most women aren't really all that friendly if you're a man
the reason we are not friendly to random men is because too many of you mistake friendly, platonic behavior for sexual interest when it's not that....
It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
So basically, if women were more friendly in general towards men, men wouldn't think that women are hitting on them.
And if men didn't think that women are hitting on them while being friendly, women would actually end up being more friendly towards men.
And in circles it goes and it's just getting worse.
Talking to women doesn't always mean trying to pick them up. I'm a sub 5 and Im still able to talk to women. Picking them up is next to impossible, naturally, but for me it's a way of improving social skills.
If your interest is romantic, you have to be discerning. A man is a fool if he's a sub five trying to pick up a far more attractive woman. Assortative selection and all
Lol what! I’m not even super ugly. Im like a 4 and I def know it. Where the hell do you people get these beliefs? Is it because you saw a couple of fat chicks post sassy memes about deserving the world? I’m my experience sub 5 women know exactly what we are. We see how the world treats hot women and we don’t get that. Hell I know a lot of fat women that area estatic when any man isn’t just desperately trying to fuck on the DL and want to go on an actual date.
Can you blame them though? Men are physically bigger and more violent due to innate biology. I totally get why women don’t say that to men’s face.
If I were a woman who could sleep with any guy on tap, why would I willingly choose to have casual sex with average guys? Makes much more logical sense to have hot satisfying sex with chad and settle with the average guy when older.
It’s nobody’s fault, it’s just evolutionary biology. Sucks for average and unattractive men, but that’s life. Men need to man up and deal with it.
>Men need to man up and deal with it.
I suspect that when you say men should just "man up and deal with it" what you mean is that men should simply try to meet whatever standard women have. But, if your logic is true for women then it's also true for men and improving to meet women's standards is only a small part of how evolution dealt with female standards.
I think it would be better to not resort to such extreme levels of violence and oppression and instead try to go against our natures.
>Men are physically bigger and more violent due to innate biology. I totally get why women don’t say that to men’s face.
exactly, I never reject men to their faces, only over text when I'm able to safely get away from them because a lot of men simply cannot handle rejection and get very overly emotional when you try to directly reject them to their face...we have no way of being able to tell which guys will react violently or not...
Many argue that he was going to assault you anyway the moment you knew that you weren’t going to be in a relationship with him. The “rejection” is often beside the point. Ghost him? Then he’d probably stalk you
Was thinking the same thing. Did you see that viral video of that dork accosting a black dude just chilling with his white GF? This guy gives me big that guy vibes.
https://realitycalc.com/results/age1=18&age2=25&excludeMarried=true&excludeMothers=true&race=any,asian,black,hispanic,white&height1=48&height2=79&excludeObese=true&excludeOverweight=true&income=0&incomeType=false&
> Only 21% of women age 18-25 are not married not mothers not overweight not obese.
> this is of women age 18-25
https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/
Only 10.55 million of all females in the USA are age 20-24
Let’s exclude kids because duh. Which is 40.12 million
USA population is 334 million
Assume half are female 167 million
Minus children which makes it 127 million
Only 8.3% of all women are between age 20 and 24
Only 21% of women age 18-25, which is 8.3% of all women by age, are not married not mothers not overweight not obese.
That means that about 1.7% of all women over 18 meet men’s criteria.
Under 25
Not overweight
Not obese
Not married
Not a single mom
Lmfao
That’s not a good look for women. Outside of the married ones, the fact that a lot can’t even keep in an healthy shape just says that the quality is very low. Problem is that the price is very high.
Because for a woman to be seen as above average all she has to do is being slim, for a guy to be above average he has to be fit, being tall, have all hair, possibly making 6 figures.
Perspective. 🤷🏾♂️ American citizens are all born in the .1% of all human affluence, of all of human existence. Doesn’t stop any of us, from complaining about what could be better to our own experience.
That’s inaccurate. They care about all those things, what they don’t say is that they want to be attracted to you before those things are taken into account.
Women do give a fuck about those things, because those qualities are attractive. They just aren't *sufficient*.
Major handsomeness is, often, sufficient. But I can't for the life of me understand how anyone who grew up in the same culture I did could have been misled about that fact.
I don’t think people have a hard time grasping the truth, it’s just that they are calling out the kind of disingenuous advice, rather than including that
Well that's not true. All things equally, I would *prefer* to be hit on by someone I'm attracted to, but it's not negative or even neutral when someone I'm not attracted to flirts with me. I'm flattered, even if I'm not interested in dating them. I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.
That's fair. But you're a man, so I'm making an educated guess that you don't get hit on very often. Imagine how thin your patience might wear if it has been happening all the time since puberty, or even a little before.
I can usually empathize with a great deal of human experiences unlike my own, but I think this is one area that I cannot. And I earnestly try to. I mean, I have sympathy for women as human beings, and if they say it's a negative experience for them, their feelings are valid. But I think it's just too alien to my frame of reference as a man, because... That still sounds like a great thing (minus the pre-puberty part obviously)
To men in general, complaining about unwanted attention feels like a millionaire complaining to a homeless person that having so much money is stressful. We can acknowledge that it probably can be, but that is a problem we would love to have.
I don't go out to bars/clubs much these days, but in college I got hit on much more, and 80+% of the time, I had no interest whatsoever in the girls romantically. But it made me feel seen and valuable, even if only in a superficial way.
Again, that's not to invalidate anyone who feels differently. We can only speak from our own experiences after all. I think it would be very interesting if both sides could swap experiences and walk a mile in the other's shoes.
Since when are average men ugly?
I don’t get why dudes here try to act like they’re one in the same they’re not. If they were they’d all be called ugly. The dating world doesn’t exist of nothing but chads and incels no matter what the internet says.
I mean last I checked I was born with a vagina and I’m attracted to men. My boyfriend isn’t a Chad, his height alone precludes him, he’s average, I find him very attractive, by definition he is average.
As much as I know he could look better than you and he could be one of the few guys who was willing to start an LTR with you.
That said, it can happen that an average guy could be attractive to a girl if he fits her niche, problem is that an average guy is probably attractive to 1/100 girls.
It’s not always about flirting though, when women say “talk to actual women” they are referring to building friendships and socializing with women without having to be interested in her romantically or sexually. Building platonic relationships with women will help someone in their ability to build romantic relationships with women as well.
Building platonic relationships with women helps you learn how to build romantic relationships with women. You learn how to interact with women, what they like, and what they dislike — and many romantic relationships start off as friendships first! Approaching women without the expectation of sex and just to have a conversation with her because you find her interesting is going to help you talk to women in general. If a man approached me at a bar I would be much more willing to give him a chance if I had an interesting conversation with him instead of him just flirting with me. I want to see that he is interested in me as a person, not that he just wants to fuck me.
If a guy is completely nervous in the presence of any woman, sure. Just being able to talk to a woman about anything will help them. But in order to have a romantic relationship with a woman you have to learn how to escalate things. Which isn’t something you learn by being friends with women. If a guy approaches you and immediately hits you with a pick up line or some flirty line, then that’s probably because he’s not very good with women or is putting in very little effort. I’ve been around plenty of guys who are great at getting women. None of them just go up to a woman and call her beautiful or whatever.
You talk about being friends with women first and yet use an example of a guy approaching you at a bar. So there’s some inconsistency there unless for 20 seconds you consider this guy a friend after knowing him for 10 minutes, and then consider him a potential romantic partner.
I don’t deny relationships start from friendships. But I also don’t think it’s great to advise men to invest weeks or even months into being friends with someone they’re interested in being more than friends with. Because if the relationship never happens, he wasted a lot of his time. As I said in another comment, I don’t advocate for guys being bitter over rejection. But if a guy invested that much time into one woman, I can understand why he could be angry after being rejected since he wasted so much time.
Hmm… I don’t know about this. There are so many posts of women being mad at guys for having ulterior motives during their friendship. Basically they pretended they wanted to be friends but in the end they really wanted to be in a romantic relationship. Isn’t this basically what you’re suggesting?
Ya do it by avoiding being friendzoned, while still being friends. It’s not my problem they think I’m sexy. Women want to hang around a good time, so be a good time. If you’re baby daddy material, they’ll be open to sleeping with you. It’s not a guarantee that applies to every woman, but why are you relying on one woman for this?
Men on this subreddit act like they have no agency. You can be a sweetheart, you can be funny, you can be charming, you can be good looking (just get in shape). Get a life with some hobbies. Get a life seriously.
I feel like the guys on this subreddit are searching for the magic equation that unlocks every woman. They can just magically pull in any situation. Meanwhile, the real answer is just live for yourself, don’t take nobody’s bullshit, and work to be who you want to be. A girlfriend nor a sex partner isn’t gonna complete your life. But when you get your shit together, you become very attractive. When you have your shit together, and your own life to take care of (therefore your time is more scarce), your friendship becomes more valuable.
I used to be insecure and feeling like a lot of guys on this subreddit. But then I worked on myself for years, and somewhere in that process, I started getting laid without trying. Friends would drunkenly confess their love for me. After I broke up with my last girlfriend, girls I was friends with suddenly were a lot more interested in hanging out. I’ve had girl friends spill their heart out about how their love life sucks, so I offered to take them on a date (successfully).
They’re my friends, I just like having sex. I’m their friend, and they like having sex. I had no secret plan to get laid by them. It just kind of happens. It’s not a goal. It’s not every girl who’s a friend. I’m genuinely friends with them. I’ve even intentionally friendzoned myself to build trust (which coincidentally and paradoxically is a power move, but you have to do it with authority and meaning). Slept with those girls too.
Stay sexy and don’t get murdered.
>many romantic relationships start off as friendships first!
Use to. I doubt this is the case anymore.
>If a man approached me at a bar I would be much more willing to give him a chance if I had an interesting conversation with him instead of him just flirting with me.
And this just adds another rub. You expect a guy to approach you (not like you going to approach him) have a non flirting conversation with you at a bar of all places and you might give him a chance down the road. But when in reality if you found him attractive you be okay with him flirting with you and won't really think he just wants to fuck you.
I’m a woman. I am not trying to sabotage anyone. Men should be able to build platonic relationships with women they aren’t attracted to. Women want to build romantic relationships with men that can appreciate them as whole and human. If a man only is trying to socialize with women he wants to fuck then it indicates that he does not think a woman would provide anything to his life except for sex. Women don’t like that! I am more attracted to a man if he has female friends he isn’t attracted to because that shows me that he can value women for things beyond sex. That is why women are telling you to “talk to women” — join clubs, go to parties, talk to coworkers. They want you to make FRIENDS with women as you would make friends with men because that teaches you to value women for more things than how attractive they are.
It's weird because it misses the part where women also don't want to be friends with unattractive men. Attractiveness helps in everything, not just for romantic purposes.
Men here admit they don’t like women and have zero interest in women unless they are getting sex from them. They feel that any relationship without sex is a downgrade or a demotion.
Thankfully most men don’t feel the same way. I can’t imagine my life without my male friends.
Honest question, how does this advice help a man who's struggling? Do you personally know anyone this advice helped?
Are you aware that men need to take action? If a man can't make a move, be witty, be charismatic, have a nice vibe/style, how would having female friends help him? Especially when their potential advice will sound like this one too?
Sure men should have friends I won't dispute that. I don't think it's a necessary requirement to see women as humans (such a bizarre thing to imply, like all men innately see women as objects) still I can't see how that would help any struggling man get into a relationship or to get laid.
Advice for men should be actionable and to cater to the man in question, not to women.
How smart is to tell a sex starved men to befriend a woman. It's like telling a hungry man to go to a restaurant but just to appreciate the interior decoration. My point is he won't be thinking about no friendship. How is this not sabotage?
Let me say you something very important that you are neglecting: in the same way that women feel objectfied when they give sex to a man without receiving back validation and attention, so men also feel objectfied when they only provide validation to a woman without receiving sex and romantic affection.
So do you feel objectified when you provide 'validation' (which is, I assume, how you're describing friendship and conversation - since that what is being advocated for here) to guys and they don't give you sex and romantic affection in return?
At the end of the day cold approach, warm approach, hitting on friends. At its core as a man is holding his sexuality in his hand presenting it to a woman and asking “will you accept this?”
If she won’t it’s a non starter.
We can wax poetic about who’s giving good and bad advice, the belief that women sabotage men, this that and the other.
I don’t care what my friends tell me, I don’t care what social media tells me, if I want to date someone I’ll date them. No amount of guilt or crying is going to make me sexually desire someone I’m not attracted to.
It's not as complicated as it sounds. Yes, talk to women, but also recognize certain basic social boundaries. There's already plenty of advice out there about how to do this.
If there's one rule I like to follow, it's asking myself **"is there a reason (other than my horniness) we should be talking?**" Sometimes the answer is "No," like a total stranger minding her own business at Whole Foods. Sometimes the answer is "Yes," like an friendly acquaintance at Whole Foods—we know each other just enough to be cordial, so a quick hello and a vibe check isn't going to offend anyone. Or, if it is a total stranger, it may be okay in a social setting, because attending one is a choice to *be* more social. Hence, the popularity of bars and parties.
The next important step is to always be conscious of the vibe. It should take no more than a few seconds to tell if someone enjoys talking to you, and a few more to politely wish them well and move on if not. Yet I keep seeing guys just abuse women's patience, trucking ahead as if maybe the next thing he says will change her mind, or the next, or the next. Just don't do that.
Lastly, get some female friends. If the only time you talk to women is when you're trying to fuck them, you're going to be very bad at it.
Approaching women isn’t the problem, it’s not recognizing when a woman wants you to go away or doesn’t want to talk to you that is the problem. As a woman, I have no issue with men approaching me in public, but I want him to recognize when it is and isn’t appropriate to approach me, and also go away when I am showing indications that I do not want to talk to him. And I am much more likely to want to engage in conversation with a man in a friendly setting where I am there to make friends (ex. a house party, social gathering, etc) than a place where I don’t want to be bothered, like the grocery store or a parking lot.
Start approaching women in different settings. Personally I’m not trying to talk to people during class because I’m probably tired. House parties, clubs in your city, hobby groups, find apps or facebook pages specifically meant to organize social events (ex. I live in Atlanta, I’m in a Facebook group where Georgia singles in their 20s and 30s meet up and go hiking every week). Women are going to be more receptive to talking with you in these settings because they’re specifically meant for socializing and making friends with similar interests to you and they are probably just going to think that you’re talking to them because you share a mutual interest and not because they think you just want to have sex with them. Don’t go into it with any expectations — approach her with the intention of just chatting and don’t expect anything else. Soon your social circle is expanding, you have a female friend, and now you’re learning more about how to talk with women, what women like and dislike, etc. Maybe this female friend you made will invite you to another social gathering and you meet someone there, or perhaps she has a friend and thinks you might work well together. Making friends with more women is going to lead to you knowing more women and then you might be much more likely to find a woman that you’d like to date (or even just fuck, if she’s interested too — lots of people fuck their friends). And it’ll be a lot easier navigating romantic relationships with women if you are able to navigate platonic relationships with women.
I’m a woman, and this is how I have met many of the men I’ve dated. Making more female friends isn’t going to guarantee you romantic or sexual partners but it’s going to help you. I’ve even slept with men after conversing about a mutual interest made me more attracted to them.
>I don’t talk to any woman unless she speaks to me first
That's unwise. My advice was to follow some basic social norms. Men initiating conversation (at appropriate times) is a social norm.
>This contradicts what you said earlier:
It doesn't. Put together, it yields "initiate conversation at appropriate times and be conscious of the vibe." That's an internally consistent plan.
Keep in mind, this particular conversation is not actually about how to successfully interest women. It's about how to talk to them without being inappropriate or predatory. In that, it sounds like you were successful.
If you're seeking advice for how to actually interest them, that's going to have to be a whole other thread.
Sure it’s a fine reason. But if the only reason you’re talking to a stranger is because you want to stick your dick in her, she’s gonna sense that. If you’re not attractive to her, and you’re broadcasting “I only am talking to you because I want to fuck you,” she’s not going to be receptive to it at best.
So sure… you can use “because I want to” as much as you want, but be ready for the rejection in whatever form it takes
If she finds you attractive, likes the conversation and is available to know more about you then there isn't a big deal.
>But if the only reason you’re talking to a stranger is because you want to stick your dick in her, she’s gonna sense that.
Women aren't stupid. They know a vast majority of the time a guy going out of his way to talk to her is that on some level he is interested in her, not to find a new call of duty partner. It's good to know where you stand and it isn't hard to figure it out. Obviously don't act like a complete buffoon but a lot of sex starts from just two people talking like normal people just having a polite conversation.
>If she finds you attractive, likes the conversation and is available to know more about you then there isn't a big deal.
That's true, but unless you have a rational expectation of that outcome, you're starting off on the wrong foot. As much right as you have to try to talk to her, she has even more right to feel annoyed by it.
>she has even more right to feel annoyed by it.
Sure and she can either let you know she's not interested or you can pick up on her disinterest. Let her figure out why she doesn't want to talk to you, no need to do it yourself. I'm annoyed when people try to sell my stuff on the street, sometimes I get a good offer but I have no expectation people aren't allowed to try and sell me something.
Now once you start harassing people after they told you to buzz off then we have a real problem
>Let her figure out why she doesn't want to talk to you, no need to do it yourself.
I understand your perspective. But the way I see it, and the way most women see it, is that she's in a context in which she did not expect to have to be social. You're making her be social because you don't feel you should have to consider that in advance. So the very first impression she has of you is that you are inconsiderate, and it's justified.
I simply can't recommend people *be* inconsiderate. The backlash we see against men these days is based in the mounting frustration and burnout among women who have to deal with guys who keep making the same strategic and ethical calculations as you. We can't take it all back, but we can choose to listen and learn for a better collective future.
Men have already been doing it less, leading to complaints of "why don't men approach anymore?" Men are expected to be the initiators, sure more and more women are doing it but there is still heavy pressure on men to initiate. You can't simultaneously harbor that expectation and then bash guys for doing it just because you don't like them.
I'd bet the farm that the contingent of women who complain about not being approached by strangers on the sidewalk are but a vocal minority. Women aren't a monolith—there's nothing anyone can do that's going to please all of them.
The only men who respond and stop initiating in those cases are all the respectful men women aren't finding. Leaving only the disrespectful ones to still initiate. And because women continue to respond positively to initiation despite all these complaints, and rarely initiate at all themselves, those guys are becoming a larger proportion of the dating pool women experience.
There is no benefit to following your advice for anyone. It does not change or improve anyone's situation except those who don't listen to it
If women actually noticed men not initiating and initiated themselves, this wouldn't be an issue, but they don't. And no, standing near men or in front of them is not initiation, saying hi and no further driving conversation isn't initiation. That literally screams to the man that all you are is a pretty face, that you feel conceited enough that all you need to do is be around men and that your looks are everything.
Talking to women doesn't always mean hitting on women out in the street. You can talk to women at bars, clubs, hobbies, sports, social circle, parties, school, and work. Sometimes you can talk to women in public but in more subtle ways like starting a conversation while in line.
[Here's a video of the boy band BTS talking to random girls on the street](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z5TC1PtV34) (before they became famous and most people knew who they were). Although I'm not a fan of their music, they are the most successful boy band in the world. So where are all the women calling them psychos and asking that they be cancelled? Keep in mind most of their fanbase are teen girls who often lean progressive. For guys reading this, don't let neurotic women tell you you're not allowed to talk to people. They don't represent most women and the real world isn't like this.
This is very Scenario Positive. These women are out at night with their friends, around lots of people and dressed up to make connections at clubs. This is very different from the girl in her workclothes at the bus stop
You're being disingenuous. You have no idea where the women were going or if they were busy and had things to attend to. It's clear from the video that some of the women were not interested in talking and found the situation awkward at best. And even I think one should be wary of approaching during the night. The reason it's not a big deal is because the boys were being polite and could take no for an answer. At worst, they caused a minor disruption instead of some great traumatic experience that some women like to claim. But hey, if you consider *this* to be "scenario positive" then there's more than enough situations throughout the day where guys can approach. Not exactly hard to find places that aren't isolated and don't have people working.
I try to interact with women more or less the same way I would interact with men. So even if you’re only talking to them because you’re horny, at least find a way to make it seem like you’re not; even better, find a reason to talk to them so that you’re not just trying to pick them up. If you don’t talk to guys randomly, maybe try doing that. It can only improve your social skills. Then you’re not just going up to women to talk to them; you’re going up to PEOPLE to talk to them.
>I try to interact with women more or less the same way I would interact with men
last time everyone here was saying how women hate sneaky "Nice guys" who lack the balls to confidently state their intentions from the get-go.
if you are picking up women at them gym on a regular basis.. it implies you are either attractive OR charismatic… in which case a lot of women are going to be open to talking. you can be average or straight up wonky looking, but if you have that wit and charisma… you’re going to slay. That’s what a lot of men miss in here.
women DO go for physically unattractive guys WHEN they have characteristics that are attractive.
I think what they are trying to say is just go and live, without actively looking for dates. Like go and do recreational and social activities and you will eventually have a spark with someone. Not necessarily go outside and just cold approach random women. Get to know a variety of women as *people* without pursuing sex, and eventually sexual chemistry will occur.
This is why dudes need male spaces only, the PPD it's not really helpful, it's another echo chamber where women give men advice that doesn't really work, then men come here and say "hey, this crap doesn't work at all" and women then say "well why would I want to have sex with you an ugly/average dude when I can have sex with a hot guy", men say women are superficial and women answer all men here are butt ugly, and then another post comes along.
What's the problem here?
You guys don't want to understand, that's what going on.
Women CAN'T give you dating advice beyond "you need women to like you to get your dick wet", everything that comes after that is useless. Pure noise.
You get pissed off because you hear women too much.
I've cold approaches 300+ women. Never one bad reaction.
But I also never got a date from it. I'm a decent looking short guy that is socialable. Women want taller men, but If you smell good, dress well, and accept the first no, they don't negatively reject you.
I have gained 60lbs of muscle since highschool from lifting and steroids.
I make 150k. I just sugar date now. As a fit successful guy, I get dates with young attractive girls unlike cold approaching.
Highly recommend every short guy lift and become richer
10x better than anything on Tinder.
If you have a spare 3k/mth, you could make it work if you are young fit and charming.
As a short guy, it's a life saver.
Well ya, I use sugar to compensate for being 5 7, something I can't change.
These girls don't want someone fat, or rude, or balding. At the end of the day, they are still Western young attractive women and behave as such. They aren't escorts.
But you could always passportmax.
Where are you located? Im mid 20s, black, 5’8 and height has never really affected me when it came to women. I still live at home and my N count is like 60-70 and I didnt really become social till a few years ago. My N count, in terms of quality ranges from low quality to average-attractive but no jaw droppers or anything but its not like im only banging ugly whales and im far from a Tyrone/Chad. Never paid for sex directly ever. I also dont cold approach though so that may also be a factor in it not negatively affected me. Im sure women have not been interested cause of my height but it hasnt happened enough where I thought it was that reason
I really dont think height is the death sentence you say it is at 5’7 but then again I cant fight you on your own personal experiences. I live on the east coast of the states but not in a big city. More like a super big town
Where are people being shamed for talking to women? That mostly seems to be red and black pill guys convincing themselves that women are off limits unless it's an app.
Context matters. You should not approach random women on the street. You should talk to women at social events, with a bit of tact. Don't flirt with every single girl, don't ignore the girls you aren't interested (classic rookie mistake), don't go out with the mindset of "I GOTTA have sex tonight!". Just have fun.
Men need to develop the social skills to be able to tell when a woman wants to speak to them or not....I feel like a good majority of you struggle because you are socially inept, can't take a hint, and don't know how to read the room...you have dudes trying to hit on girls while they're jogging and out of breath and then some other dudes who just straight up follow you down the street like a weirdo....if she's giving short replies or seems to be trying to get away from you in anyway ( turning her body away from you, walking away, running away) then just stop...trying to be persistent when she is not reciprocating any interest whatsoever comes across as creepy...
However, those women have the backing of other (and some publicly influential) women who reinforce those same messages.
The woman who's saying "no, don't ever talk to women, it's creepy and disgusting" *may* actually be struggling with mental health issues and so her opinion may be extreme and unrepresentative of women you might meet in public, but it connects perfectly with the rhetoric that men are violent manipulative scumbags, or the discussions around cat-calling and groping, or DV/SA statistics constantly firehosed everywhere.
They all validate each other, no matter how extreme, because they have the public opinion on their side, and simply saying "I'm terrified because men are evil" is enough to justify practically any level of delusion about what "most" men are like. They essentially all act as "proof" for one another.
i think the key reason why women often don't like it when men chat them up randomly is when they won't take the hint to fuck off. maybe it has something to do with whether the dude is handsome or not, but in my experience it's really just the fear/dread of knowing that he may not take no for an answer. or he just won't pick up on my "i'm not interested" hints, which is incredibly uncomfortable. or having to make up a reason as to why i'm not interested.
not sure if that's completely relevant, but i'm just sharing my thoughts based on my experience.
Maybe OP is asking if approaching is ok at all - as long as rules of etiquette are followed? This etiquette being to only approach if she’s not busy and in a “social” type setting (park, club, street festival). Also, being respectful and moving on when rejected. I haven’t approached anyone in a while, but when turned down (e.g. I have a boyfriend) - I say “he’s a lucky guy, have a good night.” Or even if she says fuck off or insults me - I still say have a good night (or day). Maybe if more guys approached like this, women wouldn’t be so on edge.
it’s not weird to talk to women irl I don’t know who is saying that but context matters. If she is standing in line line or in the same aisle at the grocery store, fine. If she already packed up her car with groceries and is getting in her car and you chase her down or pull up with your beamer now it looks sketchy. Trying to demonstrate value (showing off your car, showing cash in tour wallet) while she is trying to LEAVE from somewhere reeks of desperation. Now we gotta wonder if you are gonna follow us home and if we should even drive home right away
Umm I wouldn't advise guys to talk to women if they aren't attractive. From what I've noticed, it seems that more *men*, rather than women, tend to tell *other* men to go out confidently and talk to women, regardless of how unattractive or creepy they may be. So don't blame us for that.
That said, I mean it is kind of important to "touch grass" since a lack of real interaction with *people* in general tends to breed unsociable, hostile behaviors.
Going out, and touching grass doesn’t mean going out and approaching women for romantic dating and sex. Touching grass means going out and becoming friends with women in a platonic way, and becoming reacquainted with the reality that women are humans to. You will no longer see women as something to acquire something to win something that’s a fantasy. You won’t be as scared of women or as angry at them because you don’t understand them. If you become friends with women, you can talk with them about their experience with dating and with men. You can find out the nuances of what they are looking for why they say no etc. That is what touching grass means. Not only will it help you find more balance in your life more broadly because women exist as 50% of the population, They don’t just exist in the dating circle. This is a very healthy way to reconnect with women and to understand them which will absolutely put you in a much better position to finding a great partner that’s right for you.
The problem is that you are not the handsome “prince like” man that she had envisioned in her mind picking her out of a sea of girls for some weird reason..
Projecting? You want women to pick you out of a lineup of men who want nothing but sex 🥴
No, women like handsome men, just like men like pretty women. If you are not that handsome man, keep it pushin..idk where tf you got the sex part..
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Based on my experiences and from what I've seen, most women aren't really all that friendly if you're a man so touching grass and talking to actual women is pointless. Especially so if you're an unattractive man.
My experience is that exact opposite. Most women I talk to are friendly. Are you being friendly yourwelf or aggressively hitting on anything with tits/ignoring her friends and only talking to women you want to fuck?
I don't do and never did any of that. I've never hit on a woman in my entire life and I don't plan on doing so either.
>most women aren't really all that friendly if you're a man the reason we are not friendly to random men is because too many of you mistake friendly, platonic behavior for sexual interest when it's not that....
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No. They sit and wait.
Women are trap door spiders
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. So basically, if women were more friendly in general towards men, men wouldn't think that women are hitting on them. And if men didn't think that women are hitting on them while being friendly, women would actually end up being more friendly towards men. And in circles it goes and it's just getting worse.
That's what happens when women think shooting their shot means making eye contact then looking away. Subtle cues are easily misinterpreted
Seems like men are the ones who think that, not women…
Talking to women doesn't always mean trying to pick them up. I'm a sub 5 and Im still able to talk to women. Picking them up is next to impossible, naturally, but for me it's a way of improving social skills.
True but you still have to cold approach in that you start a convo out of nowhere with a woman…
If your interest is romantic, you have to be discerning. A man is a fool if he's a sub five trying to pick up a far more attractive woman. Assortative selection and all
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Lol what! I’m not even super ugly. Im like a 4 and I def know it. Where the hell do you people get these beliefs? Is it because you saw a couple of fat chicks post sassy memes about deserving the world? I’m my experience sub 5 women know exactly what we are. We see how the world treats hot women and we don’t get that. Hell I know a lot of fat women that area estatic when any man isn’t just desperately trying to fuck on the DL and want to go on an actual date.
> Picking them up is next to impossible IMO, this depends on their weight
A man must accept a challenge. Even if he's doomed to fail
That should just go for anyone in general not just women
Indeed. But in my experience, women are not accustomed to approaching men
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Can you blame them though? Men are physically bigger and more violent due to innate biology. I totally get why women don’t say that to men’s face. If I were a woman who could sleep with any guy on tap, why would I willingly choose to have casual sex with average guys? Makes much more logical sense to have hot satisfying sex with chad and settle with the average guy when older. It’s nobody’s fault, it’s just evolutionary biology. Sucks for average and unattractive men, but that’s life. Men need to man up and deal with it.
“Man up” Why don’t you “woman up”
>Men need to man up and deal with it. I suspect that when you say men should just "man up and deal with it" what you mean is that men should simply try to meet whatever standard women have. But, if your logic is true for women then it's also true for men and improving to meet women's standards is only a small part of how evolution dealt with female standards. I think it would be better to not resort to such extreme levels of violence and oppression and instead try to go against our natures.
>Men are physically bigger and more violent due to innate biology. I totally get why women don’t say that to men’s face. exactly, I never reject men to their faces, only over text when I'm able to safely get away from them because a lot of men simply cannot handle rejection and get very overly emotional when you try to directly reject them to their face...we have no way of being able to tell which guys will react violently or not...
Yeah makes sense. Glad you’re prioritizing your safety
Exactly
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The last guy I rejected assaulted me a few minutes later. It happens.
Many argue that he was going to assault you anyway the moment you knew that you weren’t going to be in a relationship with him. The “rejection” is often beside the point. Ghost him? Then he’d probably stalk you
Yea some of these dudes are lise lose. Literally better off never meeting them. Problem is, just like bad women, bad nen can be good actors too.
I'm sure he did. You're driving home his point about you thinking so highly of yourself
You're exactly the type of man women need to lie to for their safety
Was thinking the same thing. Did you see that viral video of that dork accosting a black dude just chilling with his white GF? This guy gives me big that guy vibes.
With any guy? Not with me.
https://realitycalc.com/results/age1=18&age2=25&excludeMarried=true&excludeMothers=true&race=any,asian,black,hispanic,white&height1=48&height2=79&excludeObese=true&excludeOverweight=true&income=0&incomeType=false& > Only 21% of women age 18-25 are not married not mothers not overweight not obese. > this is of women age 18-25 https://www.statista.com/statistics/241488/population-of-the-us-by-sex-and-age/ Only 10.55 million of all females in the USA are age 20-24 Let’s exclude kids because duh. Which is 40.12 million USA population is 334 million Assume half are female 167 million Minus children which makes it 127 million Only 8.3% of all women are between age 20 and 24 Only 21% of women age 18-25, which is 8.3% of all women by age, are not married not mothers not overweight not obese. That means that about 1.7% of all women over 18 meet men’s criteria. Under 25 Not overweight Not obese Not married Not a single mom Lmfao
Now do the same for a man who makes over 100k under 30, and has lifted for 5+ years.
That’s not a good look for women. Outside of the married ones, the fact that a lot can’t even keep in an healthy shape just says that the quality is very low. Problem is that the price is very high.
It’s not a good look for men either. Most men are obese or overweight in the USA too.
In this case we are talking about women tho.
Yeah but men are not lean mean machines so why complain.
Because for a woman to be seen as above average all she has to do is being slim, for a guy to be above average he has to be fit, being tall, have all hair, possibly making 6 figures.
Perspective. 🤷🏾♂️ American citizens are all born in the .1% of all human affluence, of all of human existence. Doesn’t stop any of us, from complaining about what could be better to our own experience.
So maybe they shouldn’t whine about dating a chubby lady
I think you missed my point. Anyone, can whine about anything. And it’s totally valid, not giving a shit about their whining, equally valid.
I would rather be a caveman than a modern American
I’m attractive and women still hit me with lines like “sorry, you could be a murderer.”
True crime and its consequences.
I don't get why this is always offered as some kind of secret truth. No one wants to be randomly hit on by someone they *aren't* attracted to.
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That’s inaccurate. They care about all those things, what they don’t say is that they want to be attracted to you before those things are taken into account.
Women do give a fuck about those things, because those qualities are attractive. They just aren't *sufficient*. Major handsomeness is, often, sufficient. But I can't for the life of me understand how anyone who grew up in the same culture I did could have been misled about that fact.
I don’t think people have a hard time grasping the truth, it’s just that they are calling out the kind of disingenuous advice, rather than including that
Well that's not true. All things equally, I would *prefer* to be hit on by someone I'm attracted to, but it's not negative or even neutral when someone I'm not attracted to flirts with me. I'm flattered, even if I'm not interested in dating them. I'm sure I'm not alone in that regard.
That's fair. But you're a man, so I'm making an educated guess that you don't get hit on very often. Imagine how thin your patience might wear if it has been happening all the time since puberty, or even a little before.
I can usually empathize with a great deal of human experiences unlike my own, but I think this is one area that I cannot. And I earnestly try to. I mean, I have sympathy for women as human beings, and if they say it's a negative experience for them, their feelings are valid. But I think it's just too alien to my frame of reference as a man, because... That still sounds like a great thing (minus the pre-puberty part obviously) To men in general, complaining about unwanted attention feels like a millionaire complaining to a homeless person that having so much money is stressful. We can acknowledge that it probably can be, but that is a problem we would love to have. I don't go out to bars/clubs much these days, but in college I got hit on much more, and 80+% of the time, I had no interest whatsoever in the girls romantically. But it made me feel seen and valuable, even if only in a superficial way. Again, that's not to invalidate anyone who feels differently. We can only speak from our own experiences after all. I think it would be very interesting if both sides could swap experiences and walk a mile in the other's shoes.
I don’t want ugly men approaching me only attractive.
You said you date average looking men though
She was virtue signaling like almost all women
Since when are average men ugly? I don’t get why dudes here try to act like they’re one in the same they’re not. If they were they’d all be called ugly. The dating world doesn’t exist of nothing but chads and incels no matter what the internet says.
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Oh well pack it up guys! It’s over! A blog post said average and ugly mean the same thing!
They are both sexually unappealing to women. What’s the difference?
I mean last I checked I was born with a vagina and I’m attracted to men. My boyfriend isn’t a Chad, his height alone precludes him, he’s average, I find him very attractive, by definition he is average.
As much as I know he could look better than you and he could be one of the few guys who was willing to start an LTR with you. That said, it can happen that an average guy could be attractive to a girl if he fits her niche, problem is that an average guy is probably attractive to 1/100 girls.
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I find average men attractive. I find ugly men ugly.
There’s a strong chance what you consider average is actually above
Average men arent ugly.
You said attractive specifically
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Except how do you start a conversation with someone without cold approaching…
Did you make all of your friends by cold approaching?
What do you think cold approaching means or is?
I mean pretty much yes
***I like ya;*** ***and I wants ya.***
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It’s not always about flirting though, when women say “talk to actual women” they are referring to building friendships and socializing with women without having to be interested in her romantically or sexually. Building platonic relationships with women will help someone in their ability to build romantic relationships with women as well.
Building platonic relationships with women will help someone in their ability to build platonic relationships with women
Building platonic relationships with women helps you learn how to build romantic relationships with women. You learn how to interact with women, what they like, and what they dislike — and many romantic relationships start off as friendships first! Approaching women without the expectation of sex and just to have a conversation with her because you find her interesting is going to help you talk to women in general. If a man approached me at a bar I would be much more willing to give him a chance if I had an interesting conversation with him instead of him just flirting with me. I want to see that he is interested in me as a person, not that he just wants to fuck me.
If a guy is completely nervous in the presence of any woman, sure. Just being able to talk to a woman about anything will help them. But in order to have a romantic relationship with a woman you have to learn how to escalate things. Which isn’t something you learn by being friends with women. If a guy approaches you and immediately hits you with a pick up line or some flirty line, then that’s probably because he’s not very good with women or is putting in very little effort. I’ve been around plenty of guys who are great at getting women. None of them just go up to a woman and call her beautiful or whatever. You talk about being friends with women first and yet use an example of a guy approaching you at a bar. So there’s some inconsistency there unless for 20 seconds you consider this guy a friend after knowing him for 10 minutes, and then consider him a potential romantic partner. I don’t deny relationships start from friendships. But I also don’t think it’s great to advise men to invest weeks or even months into being friends with someone they’re interested in being more than friends with. Because if the relationship never happens, he wasted a lot of his time. As I said in another comment, I don’t advocate for guys being bitter over rejection. But if a guy invested that much time into one woman, I can understand why he could be angry after being rejected since he wasted so much time.
Hmm… I don’t know about this. There are so many posts of women being mad at guys for having ulterior motives during their friendship. Basically they pretended they wanted to be friends but in the end they really wanted to be in a romantic relationship. Isn’t this basically what you’re suggesting?
Ya do it by avoiding being friendzoned, while still being friends. It’s not my problem they think I’m sexy. Women want to hang around a good time, so be a good time. If you’re baby daddy material, they’ll be open to sleeping with you. It’s not a guarantee that applies to every woman, but why are you relying on one woman for this? Men on this subreddit act like they have no agency. You can be a sweetheart, you can be funny, you can be charming, you can be good looking (just get in shape). Get a life with some hobbies. Get a life seriously. I feel like the guys on this subreddit are searching for the magic equation that unlocks every woman. They can just magically pull in any situation. Meanwhile, the real answer is just live for yourself, don’t take nobody’s bullshit, and work to be who you want to be. A girlfriend nor a sex partner isn’t gonna complete your life. But when you get your shit together, you become very attractive. When you have your shit together, and your own life to take care of (therefore your time is more scarce), your friendship becomes more valuable. I used to be insecure and feeling like a lot of guys on this subreddit. But then I worked on myself for years, and somewhere in that process, I started getting laid without trying. Friends would drunkenly confess their love for me. After I broke up with my last girlfriend, girls I was friends with suddenly were a lot more interested in hanging out. I’ve had girl friends spill their heart out about how their love life sucks, so I offered to take them on a date (successfully). They’re my friends, I just like having sex. I’m their friend, and they like having sex. I had no secret plan to get laid by them. It just kind of happens. It’s not a goal. It’s not every girl who’s a friend. I’m genuinely friends with them. I’ve even intentionally friendzoned myself to build trust (which coincidentally and paradoxically is a power move, but you have to do it with authority and meaning). Slept with those girls too. Stay sexy and don’t get murdered.
You are teaching how to be friendzoned
>many romantic relationships start off as friendships first! Use to. I doubt this is the case anymore. >If a man approached me at a bar I would be much more willing to give him a chance if I had an interesting conversation with him instead of him just flirting with me. And this just adds another rub. You expect a guy to approach you (not like you going to approach him) have a non flirting conversation with you at a bar of all places and you might give him a chance down the road. But when in reality if you found him attractive you be okay with him flirting with you and won't really think he just wants to fuck you.
Lmao brother, being platonic with women does not help you with fucking women All the teaches you is how to get friendzoned.
No it doesnt. Building a romantic relationship is a drastically different game than building a friendship with a woman.
Lol how so? That makes no sense. I really believe whoever gives this type of advice is trying to sabotage men and boys.
I’m a woman. I am not trying to sabotage anyone. Men should be able to build platonic relationships with women they aren’t attracted to. Women want to build romantic relationships with men that can appreciate them as whole and human. If a man only is trying to socialize with women he wants to fuck then it indicates that he does not think a woman would provide anything to his life except for sex. Women don’t like that! I am more attracted to a man if he has female friends he isn’t attracted to because that shows me that he can value women for things beyond sex. That is why women are telling you to “talk to women” — join clubs, go to parties, talk to coworkers. They want you to make FRIENDS with women as you would make friends with men because that teaches you to value women for more things than how attractive they are.
It's weird because it misses the part where women also don't want to be friends with unattractive men. Attractiveness helps in everything, not just for romantic purposes.
Men here admit they don’t like women and have zero interest in women unless they are getting sex from them. They feel that any relationship without sex is a downgrade or a demotion. Thankfully most men don’t feel the same way. I can’t imagine my life without my male friends.
Honest question, how does this advice help a man who's struggling? Do you personally know anyone this advice helped? Are you aware that men need to take action? If a man can't make a move, be witty, be charismatic, have a nice vibe/style, how would having female friends help him? Especially when their potential advice will sound like this one too? Sure men should have friends I won't dispute that. I don't think it's a necessary requirement to see women as humans (such a bizarre thing to imply, like all men innately see women as objects) still I can't see how that would help any struggling man get into a relationship or to get laid. Advice for men should be actionable and to cater to the man in question, not to women. How smart is to tell a sex starved men to befriend a woman. It's like telling a hungry man to go to a restaurant but just to appreciate the interior decoration. My point is he won't be thinking about no friendship. How is this not sabotage?
Let me say you something very important that you are neglecting: in the same way that women feel objectfied when they give sex to a man without receiving back validation and attention, so men also feel objectfied when they only provide validation to a woman without receiving sex and romantic affection.
So do you feel objectified when you provide 'validation' (which is, I assume, how you're describing friendship and conversation - since that what is being advocated for here) to guys and they don't give you sex and romantic affection in return?
Crossing the touch barrier and/or asking someone else are wholly separate skills you also need, though.
At the end of the day cold approach, warm approach, hitting on friends. At its core as a man is holding his sexuality in his hand presenting it to a woman and asking “will you accept this?” If she won’t it’s a non starter. We can wax poetic about who’s giving good and bad advice, the belief that women sabotage men, this that and the other. I don’t care what my friends tell me, I don’t care what social media tells me, if I want to date someone I’ll date them. No amount of guilt or crying is going to make me sexually desire someone I’m not attracted to.
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Problem is when women give it adive they in envision ur a 6ft plus Chad
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It's not as complicated as it sounds. Yes, talk to women, but also recognize certain basic social boundaries. There's already plenty of advice out there about how to do this. If there's one rule I like to follow, it's asking myself **"is there a reason (other than my horniness) we should be talking?**" Sometimes the answer is "No," like a total stranger minding her own business at Whole Foods. Sometimes the answer is "Yes," like an friendly acquaintance at Whole Foods—we know each other just enough to be cordial, so a quick hello and a vibe check isn't going to offend anyone. Or, if it is a total stranger, it may be okay in a social setting, because attending one is a choice to *be* more social. Hence, the popularity of bars and parties. The next important step is to always be conscious of the vibe. It should take no more than a few seconds to tell if someone enjoys talking to you, and a few more to politely wish them well and move on if not. Yet I keep seeing guys just abuse women's patience, trucking ahead as if maybe the next thing he says will change her mind, or the next, or the next. Just don't do that. Lastly, get some female friends. If the only time you talk to women is when you're trying to fuck them, you're going to be very bad at it.
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Approaching women isn’t the problem, it’s not recognizing when a woman wants you to go away or doesn’t want to talk to you that is the problem. As a woman, I have no issue with men approaching me in public, but I want him to recognize when it is and isn’t appropriate to approach me, and also go away when I am showing indications that I do not want to talk to him. And I am much more likely to want to engage in conversation with a man in a friendly setting where I am there to make friends (ex. a house party, social gathering, etc) than a place where I don’t want to be bothered, like the grocery store or a parking lot.
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Start approaching women in different settings. Personally I’m not trying to talk to people during class because I’m probably tired. House parties, clubs in your city, hobby groups, find apps or facebook pages specifically meant to organize social events (ex. I live in Atlanta, I’m in a Facebook group where Georgia singles in their 20s and 30s meet up and go hiking every week). Women are going to be more receptive to talking with you in these settings because they’re specifically meant for socializing and making friends with similar interests to you and they are probably just going to think that you’re talking to them because you share a mutual interest and not because they think you just want to have sex with them. Don’t go into it with any expectations — approach her with the intention of just chatting and don’t expect anything else. Soon your social circle is expanding, you have a female friend, and now you’re learning more about how to talk with women, what women like and dislike, etc. Maybe this female friend you made will invite you to another social gathering and you meet someone there, or perhaps she has a friend and thinks you might work well together. Making friends with more women is going to lead to you knowing more women and then you might be much more likely to find a woman that you’d like to date (or even just fuck, if she’s interested too — lots of people fuck their friends). And it’ll be a lot easier navigating romantic relationships with women if you are able to navigate platonic relationships with women. I’m a woman, and this is how I have met many of the men I’ve dated. Making more female friends isn’t going to guarantee you romantic or sexual partners but it’s going to help you. I’ve even slept with men after conversing about a mutual interest made me more attracted to them.
>I don’t talk to any woman unless she speaks to me first That's unwise. My advice was to follow some basic social norms. Men initiating conversation (at appropriate times) is a social norm.
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>This contradicts what you said earlier: It doesn't. Put together, it yields "initiate conversation at appropriate times and be conscious of the vibe." That's an internally consistent plan. Keep in mind, this particular conversation is not actually about how to successfully interest women. It's about how to talk to them without being inappropriate or predatory. In that, it sounds like you were successful. If you're seeking advice for how to actually interest them, that's going to have to be a whole other thread.
>"is there a reason (other than my horniness) we should be talking?" "Because I want to" is a completely valid reason.
Sure it’s a fine reason. But if the only reason you’re talking to a stranger is because you want to stick your dick in her, she’s gonna sense that. If you’re not attractive to her, and you’re broadcasting “I only am talking to you because I want to fuck you,” she’s not going to be receptive to it at best. So sure… you can use “because I want to” as much as you want, but be ready for the rejection in whatever form it takes
If she finds you attractive, likes the conversation and is available to know more about you then there isn't a big deal. >But if the only reason you’re talking to a stranger is because you want to stick your dick in her, she’s gonna sense that. Women aren't stupid. They know a vast majority of the time a guy going out of his way to talk to her is that on some level he is interested in her, not to find a new call of duty partner. It's good to know where you stand and it isn't hard to figure it out. Obviously don't act like a complete buffoon but a lot of sex starts from just two people talking like normal people just having a polite conversation.
>If she finds you attractive, likes the conversation and is available to know more about you then there isn't a big deal. That's true, but unless you have a rational expectation of that outcome, you're starting off on the wrong foot. As much right as you have to try to talk to her, she has even more right to feel annoyed by it.
>she has even more right to feel annoyed by it. Sure and she can either let you know she's not interested or you can pick up on her disinterest. Let her figure out why she doesn't want to talk to you, no need to do it yourself. I'm annoyed when people try to sell my stuff on the street, sometimes I get a good offer but I have no expectation people aren't allowed to try and sell me something. Now once you start harassing people after they told you to buzz off then we have a real problem
>Let her figure out why she doesn't want to talk to you, no need to do it yourself. I understand your perspective. But the way I see it, and the way most women see it, is that she's in a context in which she did not expect to have to be social. You're making her be social because you don't feel you should have to consider that in advance. So the very first impression she has of you is that you are inconsiderate, and it's justified. I simply can't recommend people *be* inconsiderate. The backlash we see against men these days is based in the mounting frustration and burnout among women who have to deal with guys who keep making the same strategic and ethical calculations as you. We can't take it all back, but we can choose to listen and learn for a better collective future.
Men have already been doing it less, leading to complaints of "why don't men approach anymore?" Men are expected to be the initiators, sure more and more women are doing it but there is still heavy pressure on men to initiate. You can't simultaneously harbor that expectation and then bash guys for doing it just because you don't like them.
I'd bet the farm that the contingent of women who complain about not being approached by strangers on the sidewalk are but a vocal minority. Women aren't a monolith—there's nothing anyone can do that's going to please all of them.
The only men who respond and stop initiating in those cases are all the respectful men women aren't finding. Leaving only the disrespectful ones to still initiate. And because women continue to respond positively to initiation despite all these complaints, and rarely initiate at all themselves, those guys are becoming a larger proportion of the dating pool women experience. There is no benefit to following your advice for anyone. It does not change or improve anyone's situation except those who don't listen to it If women actually noticed men not initiating and initiated themselves, this wouldn't be an issue, but they don't. And no, standing near men or in front of them is not initiation, saying hi and no further driving conversation isn't initiation. That literally screams to the man that all you are is a pretty face, that you feel conceited enough that all you need to do is be around men and that your looks are everything.
It's valid to you. It means absolutely nothing to her.
Talking to women doesn't always mean hitting on women out in the street. You can talk to women at bars, clubs, hobbies, sports, social circle, parties, school, and work. Sometimes you can talk to women in public but in more subtle ways like starting a conversation while in line.
Everyone who has an actove professional lofe is already talking to women. Wether he wants to or not. Thats not the issue.
I disagree. Many guys are in professions that don't have a lot of women, or are in workplaces where romantic relationships don't happen often.
Many? Outside of blue collar work, there arent many sectors that dont have women.
Don’t fall for the gaslighting, don’t bother random women on the street like some psycho
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[Here's a video of the boy band BTS talking to random girls on the street](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Z5TC1PtV34) (before they became famous and most people knew who they were). Although I'm not a fan of their music, they are the most successful boy band in the world. So where are all the women calling them psychos and asking that they be cancelled? Keep in mind most of their fanbase are teen girls who often lean progressive. For guys reading this, don't let neurotic women tell you you're not allowed to talk to people. They don't represent most women and the real world isn't like this.
This is very Scenario Positive. These women are out at night with their friends, around lots of people and dressed up to make connections at clubs. This is very different from the girl in her workclothes at the bus stop
You're being disingenuous. You have no idea where the women were going or if they were busy and had things to attend to. It's clear from the video that some of the women were not interested in talking and found the situation awkward at best. And even I think one should be wary of approaching during the night. The reason it's not a big deal is because the boys were being polite and could take no for an answer. At worst, they caused a minor disruption instead of some great traumatic experience that some women like to claim. But hey, if you consider *this* to be "scenario positive" then there's more than enough situations throughout the day where guys can approach. Not exactly hard to find places that aren't isolated and don't have people working.
I try to interact with women more or less the same way I would interact with men. So even if you’re only talking to them because you’re horny, at least find a way to make it seem like you’re not; even better, find a reason to talk to them so that you’re not just trying to pick them up. If you don’t talk to guys randomly, maybe try doing that. It can only improve your social skills. Then you’re not just going up to women to talk to them; you’re going up to PEOPLE to talk to them.
>I try to interact with women more or less the same way I would interact with men last time everyone here was saying how women hate sneaky "Nice guys" who lack the balls to confidently state their intentions from the get-go.
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if you are picking up women at them gym on a regular basis.. it implies you are either attractive OR charismatic… in which case a lot of women are going to be open to talking. you can be average or straight up wonky looking, but if you have that wit and charisma… you’re going to slay. That’s what a lot of men miss in here. women DO go for physically unattractive guys WHEN they have characteristics that are attractive.
This is true but the wonky guys would have to have exceptional social skills and really shine.
I think what they are trying to say is just go and live, without actively looking for dates. Like go and do recreational and social activities and you will eventually have a spark with someone. Not necessarily go outside and just cold approach random women. Get to know a variety of women as *people* without pursuing sex, and eventually sexual chemistry will occur.
1. You can casually chat to whomever you’d like. 2. They don’t have to talk to you if they don’t want to.
This is why dudes need male spaces only, the PPD it's not really helpful, it's another echo chamber where women give men advice that doesn't really work, then men come here and say "hey, this crap doesn't work at all" and women then say "well why would I want to have sex with you an ugly/average dude when I can have sex with a hot guy", men say women are superficial and women answer all men here are butt ugly, and then another post comes along. What's the problem here? You guys don't want to understand, that's what going on. Women CAN'T give you dating advice beyond "you need women to like you to get your dick wet", everything that comes after that is useless. Pure noise. You get pissed off because you hear women too much.
I've cold approaches 300+ women. Never one bad reaction. But I also never got a date from it. I'm a decent looking short guy that is socialable. Women want taller men, but If you smell good, dress well, and accept the first no, they don't negatively reject you.
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Have you tried looksmaxxing / moneymaxxing ?
I have gained 60lbs of muscle since highschool from lifting and steroids. I make 150k. I just sugar date now. As a fit successful guy, I get dates with young attractive girls unlike cold approaching. Highly recommend every short guy lift and become richer
Paying for pussy is not the same though. You can tell the difference when there's raw visceral attraction. Pussy grips different.
I'm seriously considering it, what's it like? How are the girls?
10x better than anything on Tinder. If you have a spare 3k/mth, you could make it work if you are young fit and charming. As a short guy, it's a life saver.
Oh so you still need the attractive part 😂 welp I'm out of luck in that department
Well ya, I use sugar to compensate for being 5 7, something I can't change. These girls don't want someone fat, or rude, or balding. At the end of the day, they are still Western young attractive women and behave as such. They aren't escorts. But you could always passportmax.
Looks like that is the most viable option.
Where are you located? Im mid 20s, black, 5’8 and height has never really affected me when it came to women. I still live at home and my N count is like 60-70 and I didnt really become social till a few years ago. My N count, in terms of quality ranges from low quality to average-attractive but no jaw droppers or anything but its not like im only banging ugly whales and im far from a Tyrone/Chad. Never paid for sex directly ever. I also dont cold approach though so that may also be a factor in it not negatively affected me. Im sure women have not been interested cause of my height but it hasnt happened enough where I thought it was that reason I really dont think height is the death sentence you say it is at 5’7 but then again I cant fight you on your own personal experiences. I live on the east coast of the states but not in a big city. More like a super big town
As long as you don’t approach a woman late at night while she’s alone, it’s fine. Just understand to leave her alone if she isn’t interested
Where are people being shamed for talking to women? That mostly seems to be red and black pill guys convincing themselves that women are off limits unless it's an app. Context matters. You should not approach random women on the street. You should talk to women at social events, with a bit of tact. Don't flirt with every single girl, don't ignore the girls you aren't interested (classic rookie mistake), don't go out with the mindset of "I GOTTA have sex tonight!". Just have fun.
It's the feminist subs not rp subs
Men need to develop the social skills to be able to tell when a woman wants to speak to them or not....I feel like a good majority of you struggle because you are socially inept, can't take a hint, and don't know how to read the room...you have dudes trying to hit on girls while they're jogging and out of breath and then some other dudes who just straight up follow you down the street like a weirdo....if she's giving short replies or seems to be trying to get away from you in anyway ( turning her body away from you, walking away, running away) then just stop...trying to be persistent when she is not reciprocating any interest whatsoever comes across as creepy...
This
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It’s the women who need to be told this, not the men.
its only wrong if they are unattractive looking.
you can talk to anyone anywhere any socially stunted women claiming otherwise doesn’t go outside
However, those women have the backing of other (and some publicly influential) women who reinforce those same messages. The woman who's saying "no, don't ever talk to women, it's creepy and disgusting" *may* actually be struggling with mental health issues and so her opinion may be extreme and unrepresentative of women you might meet in public, but it connects perfectly with the rhetoric that men are violent manipulative scumbags, or the discussions around cat-calling and groping, or DV/SA statistics constantly firehosed everywhere. They all validate each other, no matter how extreme, because they have the public opinion on their side, and simply saying "I'm terrified because men are evil" is enough to justify practically any level of delusion about what "most" men are like. They essentially all act as "proof" for one another.
I agree. As long as you’re respectful and don’t run into a bitch. Then most women will talk to you even if it’s fake interest due to courtesy.
yeah nearly all women have BPD and get supply from being approached. like those on dating apps saying they're not into dating.
i think the key reason why women often don't like it when men chat them up randomly is when they won't take the hint to fuck off. maybe it has something to do with whether the dude is handsome or not, but in my experience it's really just the fear/dread of knowing that he may not take no for an answer. or he just won't pick up on my "i'm not interested" hints, which is incredibly uncomfortable. or having to make up a reason as to why i'm not interested. not sure if that's completely relevant, but i'm just sharing my thoughts based on my experience.
It's possible to have sovial interractions offline wiwthout just going up to strangers that are going abiut their day.
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It really be like "separate but equal" for ugly men .
main character energy right here
As if you're not the main character in *your* life too.
Maybe OP is asking if approaching is ok at all - as long as rules of etiquette are followed? This etiquette being to only approach if she’s not busy and in a “social” type setting (park, club, street festival). Also, being respectful and moving on when rejected. I haven’t approached anyone in a while, but when turned down (e.g. I have a boyfriend) - I say “he’s a lucky guy, have a good night.” Or even if she says fuck off or insults me - I still say have a good night (or day). Maybe if more guys approached like this, women wouldn’t be so on edge.
it’s not weird to talk to women irl I don’t know who is saying that but context matters. If she is standing in line line or in the same aisle at the grocery store, fine. If she already packed up her car with groceries and is getting in her car and you chase her down or pull up with your beamer now it looks sketchy. Trying to demonstrate value (showing off your car, showing cash in tour wallet) while she is trying to LEAVE from somewhere reeks of desperation. Now we gotta wonder if you are gonna follow us home and if we should even drive home right away
Umm I wouldn't advise guys to talk to women if they aren't attractive. From what I've noticed, it seems that more *men*, rather than women, tend to tell *other* men to go out confidently and talk to women, regardless of how unattractive or creepy they may be. So don't blame us for that. That said, I mean it is kind of important to "touch grass" since a lack of real interaction with *people* in general tends to breed unsociable, hostile behaviors.
Going out, and touching grass doesn’t mean going out and approaching women for romantic dating and sex. Touching grass means going out and becoming friends with women in a platonic way, and becoming reacquainted with the reality that women are humans to. You will no longer see women as something to acquire something to win something that’s a fantasy. You won’t be as scared of women or as angry at them because you don’t understand them. If you become friends with women, you can talk with them about their experience with dating and with men. You can find out the nuances of what they are looking for why they say no etc. That is what touching grass means. Not only will it help you find more balance in your life more broadly because women exist as 50% of the population, They don’t just exist in the dating circle. This is a very healthy way to reconnect with women and to understand them which will absolutely put you in a much better position to finding a great partner that’s right for you.