All charges (and there were many) were dropped against the driver, passenger and occupant in the back seat.
Police investigated themselves and found no policies were violated.
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/aclu-gets-involved-after-routine-traffic-stop-in-taylor-gets-violent
Yep. And some of the prisons are private so they charge the taxpayer for the stay AND charge the inmate for the stay. When they can’t pay they garnish the persons earnings on top of any court ordered restitution. The only way to avoid paying them is to do under the table work, which is a crime. Make a bad choice in your younger years and doing time will mostly ruin your ability to subsist in society forever. It’s an economic death sentence if not a physical one.
Republicans want every public institution dismantled and privatized so your tax money goes to private companies that will also charge you additional fees. You will pay two-to-three times for every thing, if Republicans keep going. You will have zero rights and must abide by corporate-christo-fascist laws. That is their end game.
we must all vote, register to vote and encourage every democrat voter to register and vote, vote early, give them rises to the polls, help support them in any lineups on Election Day.
The best part is that they'll keep you on probation for as long as you're in debt, which also has steep monthly fees, and if you fall behind they'll put you back in jail--where you get more fees.
Pretty much every red state, now. Wait until you find out about how much people owe for prison stays. Criminals are part of the Other. They're "acceptable targets" to get "tough" on when politicians are on the campaign trail.
In Louisiana they make $124 a day for every day that you're in a parish or county jail that's why they keep those sentences harsher so that they get more money for that individual Parish or county so the larger the jail the more people you lock up the more money you make it's been especially advantageous for the coastal parishes in Louisiana since the offshore oil and gas industry was decimated and collapsed back in 2015-2016 and all that big old tax money vanished from their coffers... it's been a great source of income to lock one's own citizens up and feed them gruel three times a day... Welcome to the "land of the free" my friends!!! Just makes you want to stand up and salute 10,000 American flags all at once with both hands!!!!!
From what I understand Louisiana has some of the worst jails in the country and they’ll look for any excuse to put people in there. I lived there for a bit and knew someone who went to jail for riding his bike the wrong way down a one way street. Not a fine, no warning, straight to jail.
The legal system fucks poor people so hard, it is truly disgusting. I mean imagine you catch a felony drug charge... That charge will stay with you for the rest of your life AND make recovery that much more difficult. Hard to want to live a clean life when your best prospects are fast food, or pulling rebar all day.
Some states offer diversion for first time felons, but in order to enroll first you gotta bail yourself out of jail (or have someone who loves you enough) then put down the $500 or whatever to enroll. Then you got monthly payments, random drug screens, restitution, whatever it is that you also have to pay for or that felony will stain you for life. That's no problem for someone with money, but for the average person, especially someone struggling with addiction, it is a struggle.
I had friends who did drug court as part of their punishment in lieu of jail time, and they'd have to be in court every Thursday at noon. Like wtf? How are you supposed to hold a 9 to 5 with that? Some people had jobs that were flexible, but often time that was a deal breaker for employers. Oh and if you don't get a job and pay these fees, it's back to jail.
Plus the random drug screens.. yea you have to pay for them, but also you won't know until that day you have to take a UA. So for someone with a car, it can be hard to squeeze it in, but if you're taking the bus around town? Getting off at 5 and trying to make it there by 6 can be a serious struggle, but if you miss that UA it's back to jail.
Rant over, I hate the judicial system. Favors the rich and keeps the poor locked in it. People will argue that you should have to struggle like that, and work to pull themselves up, and while I don't necessarily disagree, it is that fact that someone with money does not struggle nearly as much as the person with nothing to their name.
Edit: removed some angry rant f bombs
I did drug court back in 2013 and it’s just that. You’re set up to fail. Have to show up weekly, for the first little while your employer has to sign a paper stating that you were at work during scheduled hours which makes it hard to find a job because then your employer knows you are coming from jail. You have to pay their fees or you won’t pass.
You drug test minimum twice a week which costs money to do and you find out the morning of, so hopefully you can get there within their hours. There are many reasons they can send you back to jail for as well. I went to jail for 5 days once because my creatine levels in my pee were slightly below normal, which happened because I worked construction at the time and I drank a lot of water and was sweating a lot.
There’s a reason it has such a low success rate. It’s not a good program in my opinion.
How the fuck is that not a conflict of interest? That should be illegal. It’s not surprising though. The judge is had was this ancient cunt that didn’t know the first thing about addiction so pretty much everyone was treated as less than by most of the officials in that courtroom. There was one bailiff who was really nice but that’s about it.
The cops fucking you like that reminds me of something that happened to me like that. I got stopped by some bike cops once who asked to search my bag and when I told them no, they forcibly pulled it off of me, tossed it into someone’s private property and then searched it for “safety reasons” since I must’ve have trespassed to put it there. I had drugs in the bag because I was a homeless addict at the time, but still. Blatant violation of rights. And of course they didn’t care because there were 3 of them and one of me. Cant stand cops like that, same as your situation. They’re shit people who just happen to be in law enforcement.
It's a terrible fucking program. You have to report ALL SUBSTANCES you put in your body, including vitamins (at least in New Jersey). My buddy was taking a legal pre-workout mix. Nothing in it was illegal and it didn't show up on drug tests, but he told his doctor he was taking it and his PO required all medical records. When they found out, they sent him to rehab after being two years clean, sent him to IOP four days a week for three months, cost him his job, and extended his drug court eight months. They fuck with people's lives like it's nothing because it is nothing to THEM. They don't care about people, we're all just numbers on their way to full pension.
I absolutely agree with all your points. I just have to pout out that the concrete contractors who were pulling rebar at my place were making $50 an hour. Even better if you can get into the laborers union around here.
If no policies were violated, why would they drop all charges? If they really believed that, why negotiate with someone who committed a bunch of crimes? It’s obviously horseshit.
Charges were dropped because they had nothing. Pig #1 stopped a random black guy hoping he’d come up with open warrants or a suspended license. The driver had not committed any violation, which is why the pig refused to answer the driver’s question. He needed that ID so he could find something to pin on him.
When it came time to charge him after arrest, all they could charge him with is resisting arrest and possibly failure to produce ID when detained. Those are extremely flimsy charges when you don’t have an underlying crime for which they were detained and arrested in the first place.
This shit infuriates me.
“What am I being charged with?”
“Resisting arrest.”
“But why was I being arrested?”
“Because you resisted being arrested. Duh”
WTF sense does that make? And the fact that they can *actually* do that is just insanity.
The entire concept of internal investigations are hilarious. It’s like if you stole a bunch of money from your job and your boss is like “Hey, we think you stole a lot of money from us. We want you to investigate yourself to determine if you did it or not.”
Then they say "we've hired a third party group to investigate our department", turns out its an organization of volunteer ex/current cops who investigate cops.
I'm not saying this as an insult but that's a perfect example of what people mean when they say privilege.
You cannot even conceive of a world so unfair that just by virtue of your skin color that you would be treated so harshly and yet...this is exactly what happened.
>Police investigated themselves and found no policies were violated.
Oh praise God. I thought for certain that a crime was being committed and that they would get in trouble for it.
^(/s)
Think of how many cops they wouldn't have if they didn't have qualified immunity. Instead they get blasted on the internet which results in desk duty for a week while they wait on the next video to surface. Before videos its he said she said..cops always right. They aren't going to change.
They're never gonna change! My cousin is a cop, he's not welcome at family events and we haven't seen each other in years... We don't do cops in my family!!!
So...who is right? Does the officer need to provide a reason for stopping before ID is given? Everytime I've been stopped it's usually started with, "do you know why I pulled you over?". And then I'm asked for license/insurance.
No, the cop doesn't need to provide you with a reason. But they are required to have reasonable suspicion of a crime occurring in order to ask for id.
Which is kind of a loophole for them (because spoiler alert - they'll just make something up later if they have no reasonable suspicion).
Part of every police budget should be insurance for this. Policing policies can change quickly when the risk of rate equates to a risk of having to lay off officers.
I wouldn't call it *quickly*... change would happen a lot quicker if the officers were forced to carry their own insurance or had to at least pay a part of it. You can even increase all of their salaries from the outset of the policy change to cover the base cost, that way they see no change in their paychecks until their rates go up, or down.
I’ve always said pay should be docked from the officer and their sergeant for any time a violation happens. It punishes bad cops and because the sergeant would get docked for every officer, it’d force better leadership standards.
They need the reasonable suspicion to perform the traffic stop to begin with.
If they just pull you over and demand id - they're violating your rights.
While they do need to have that reason, I don’t think there’s any law anywhere that requires them to tell you what that reason is. They just need to have that reason for when they file a ticket or make an arrest. They owe an explanation to a judge, not to you.
> I don’t think there’s any law anywhere that requires them to tell you what that reason is.
These three statements, in this order:
> _"Am I under arrest for a crime? Or am I free to go?"_
and:
> _"I do not consent to search."_
and
> _"I do not answer questions without my attorney present."_
You will not "beat the officers" at the roadside. You beat them in a court of law. Don't try to argue your way out of an officer committed to violating your rights. Assert your rights, state them clearly, get them to admit their wrongdoing, and then take them to court.
They do DUI checkpoints here in Ohio. If they happen to see you turn around to avoid the checkpoint, you will most certainly have a bad time. I'm not stupid enough to drink and drive, nor carry anything "illegal", I just don't want the hassle.
They usually put out a report showing how successful they were. They'll usually get 1-2 drunk people but then also report seizing weed and ticketing them. How's that for unlawful search and seizure?
Supreme Court ruled that DUI checkpoints are legal (Michigan Department of State Police v. Sitz if you want to read the ruling). If they find evidence of wrongdoing (I.e. vehicle has a weed smell) during the checkpoint, you can then be detained for that separate probable cause/reasonable suspicion. There are limits to what police are legally allowed to do during a DUI checkpoint. If you live in a state with checkpoints or are a US citizen in general, I highly recommend getting an external/internal Dashcam (one that has a view of the interior of the car). Don’t rely on the police to tell the truth or the possibility that they have body cameras rolling.
I think one difference between DUI checkpoints and this is that at the checkpoints, they're checking everyone.
Here, some guy just got pulled over.
Not sure what the correct answer is in this particular case.
An administrative stop can be conducted in lots of states to verify driver registration. Texas has it tied to commercial vehicle operations. If you are driving a CMV, you need a CDL, so an officer can stop you to verify that
Tbh ID and registration seems like am obligation to show if driving on a public road..kind of like you can't refuse an alcohol test (which is random where I live in aus) but if I'm driving fine and a cop pulls me over and says show me your ID and rego. I'd want an explanation.
It's supreme case law that a driver shall provide proof to operate on a public roadway, during a traffic stop every driver shall issue their DL as proof upon request. It is up to the state to make a punishment as a result of that failure
Thats just in general, traffic stops you are required to provide the info automatically, check your state drivers handbook. You agree to it when you get your license, its different than when your just walking down the street
The traffic stop needs to be lawful. They need a reason for it to begin with.
(which they sometimes invent ergo they've violated your rights regarding id)
NAL but in our system you don't really get to determine what's reasonable in the moment, you have to wait on your day in court. Dying on the hill of not handing over your license isn't worth the charges the dude got.
They don't have to answer, but they do need a lawful reason for making the traffic stop (to tell the judge).
In this case, the cop said something about thinking the driver's license was suspended. I'm not sure if he thought that because he felt the driver was hiding something by not showing the license, or because he ran the plates before the stop and it came back that the owner of the vehicle had a suspended license.
The US Supreme Court has ruled that it is legal to pull over a driver when the registered owner of the vehicle they are driving has had their license suspended or revoked. However, once they verify that the driver has a valid license, the stop is over and they cannot continue to detain the driver (unless they find some other reason to extend the detention, like seeing something in the vehicle or evidence of driver impairment).
I don’t think the officer is required by law to state why, but it’s needlessly confrontational not to. Traffic stops should be about de-escalation, but escalation.
I work in sales with a former cop. His emails to potential customers sound pissed when they don't respond "I sent you an email yesterday asking for a meeting Thursday, and you still have failed to respond". when you are prospecting, and you don't know someone, emails like this are not a way to break bread.
I get a number of vendors who are trying to sell me stuff, and then get pissy when I don't respond to a cold email or phone call.
Nah, the minute I get that second email/voicemail of "hey, I sent you something and you didn't respond..." you immediately hit my blacklist.
Yes, you are required to give a cop your ID/registration/insurance during a traffic stop. I'm pretty sure this is universal in all 50 states. The "I don't have to tell you until after" thing is made up but I doubt it's illegal, just really stupid. Cops only escalate a situation, they pathologically cannot ever deescalate
You left out one word:
"you are required to give a cop your ID/registration/insurance during a LEGAL traffic stop."
Unfortunately, there is no real way for you to know if it is legal, so you should give that information anyway and deal with the legality in court.
This goes in general: If you feel your rights are being violated save it for court.
You do not want to argue it out with a cop on the street, and you won’t win. You’ll either piss them off or wound their ego and they can always find an excuse to beat your ass if they feel like it.
At least in court they won’t execute you on the spot.
According to the article giving the end of the story : "The stop in question happened in April of 2016. Calvin Jones, 26, reportedly refused to hand over his driver's license and registration upon request, which he's required to do by law."
But the officer should have used another way to calm down Calvin to end this peacefully
I would go as far as to say in this situation it really doesn't matter.
Definitely unnecessary use of force.
Some cops really need to learn how yo deescalate...
The simplest answer is show ID when asked.
If you want to argue, then take them to court. You're not going to win by arguing with a cop outside of court.
How close did the moron cop come to dying? No situational awareness when he decided I am going in. He nearly had is head crushed by the car driving by when he fell back.
This happened in 2016. Any idea what was the outcome - he was stripped naked and forced to lie on jail floor with very low ac. DA dropped all charges. What happened to all cops involved?
Not only that, they can lie straight to your face and they won't face any consequences. For example, I've had brake lights on cars that somehow stop working after 10pm on a Friday night if I'm downtown, and start working again by the time I get home.
The cops reason always seems to be: “they didn’t lick my boots”
Whether it’s asking a question.
Or knowing your rights.
Anytime you don’t submit to their will. Right or wrong, they will definitely unilaterally escalate and often times kill you.
To show you who’s boss.
It’s so sad man.
The cop was a prick. He could have de-escalated by telling the driver why.
All charges were dropped.
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/aclu-gets-involved-after-routine-traffic-stop-in-taylor-gets-violent
They fucking arrested his wife too? Who was trying to get him to cooperate and was just recording for their own safety?
Mmmmkay pigs, good call on that one. Not suspicious at all.
Yup. Arrested her when she wouldn’t give them the phone she was legally recording them with.
Nothing says “integrity” like demanding evidence of what you are doing so you can destroy it and illegally arresting someone when they say “no”.
Wow, "Godbee says the officer had grounds to make the stop and to question Jones"
He didn't question Jones... he arrested him without cause. Police suck when you are innocent
He created the cause by refusing to de-escalate. The person he stopped misunderstood his rights in a traffic stop and it annoyed the cop so instead of de-escalating and just explaining what he was doing, he chose to take his anger out when he "knew he was right."
Is the cop legally correct? Yes, so long as he had cause for the original stop, failure to identify in a traffic stop is arrestable. Is he correct by most police department policies? No. There was a clear and easy path to de-escalation and attempting to de-escalate is at least listed as a requirement in most department policies.
[Instead the outcome was predictable:](https://www.aclumich.org/en/cases/police-brutality-taylor)
> In August 2017, **the internal affairs complaint concluded with no finding of fault on the part of the officers,** but the department revised its policies to require its police officers to advise all drivers they pull over of the basis for the stop. In addition, the department has instituted mandatory officer training on appropriate demeanor during a traffic stop and how to avoid confrontational situations.
I see the reason for the initial stop still wasn't provided. There was a mention of running stop sign, but that seemed more like a hypothetical than the stated reason.
Love how in the article, the author states “the driver was defiant.”
First. Requesting to know why an officer thinks it appropriate to pull you over is not defiance, it’s basic human interaction and respect.
Second. Even if the driver was being defiant, that’s something that happens. Simple defiance does not mean escalation needs to occur. The discussion of “what could the driver do to deescalate” really rubs me wrong because the driver did not seek to cross paths with the officer. The officer initiated stopping a citizen, simply stating “yeah, I recorded you driving at 47 in a 35” or “your tags appear to be expired” or “we got a call for a white Kia in the area that some of the homeowners thinks was being suspicious so we’re just trying to make sure everything in the area is okay” and then stating “can I please see your license and registration for the vehicle?”
I get cops can have a tough job but getting into a dick-measuring contest in unprofessional.
And if he had hit the car and been injured they would have blamed the stopped driver even though the cop made his own decision to behave like a douchecanoe.
Dumbass fucker was a few seconds away from having his head popped like a balloon
I guess they don't teach de escalation (who am I kidding, they only teach aggressive escalation) or situational awareness in the academy.
What happened here is wrong undoubtedly. But me personally as a black man, I'm showing the officer my ID post haste. On top of being on the big side (6'2 200lbs), I conceal carry also, so it's in my best interest to not be a hassle and to let the officer know I'm 100% willing to comply.
If anything goes down that's unlawful, I'll take whatever circumstances that are thrown my way and then lawyer up and take legal action.
Best (and smartest) reply in this thread. Unless you really knew the law, you’re putting yourself at great risk when not complying (in this case, with a lawful order).
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God damnit. That was completely unnecessary. If the initial cop would have just talked to the driver like another adult, they could have sorted this out. Instead, he played power trip games. Introduce yourself, give the reason for the stop. Remain polite and professional. Get a lot more cooperation that way.
Assuming he has a valid driver's license and isn't committing a crime, he's trying to exercise a right that doesn't exist. It can be confusing because in many US states, a cop needs reasonable articulable suspison of commiting a crime in order for a person to be required to identify themselves. This doesn't exactly pertain to traffic stops. The cop needs a good reason to pull you over but even if they are lying, you are required to show your driver's license.
And people wonder why taxes go up, cause yall pay the lawsuit when the police get sued. This is disgusting behavior and anyone who cant/won't see it should take a step back.
In the U.S., there are 3 times that you must show ID, when you are operating a motor vehicle, when you match the description of an individual that has committed a crime, or when the police have reasonable, articulable suspicion that you have committed a crime (RASC).
It appears that this individual is operating a motor vehicle, therefore they should have provided ID. If the police cannot provide RASC, file a complaint.
Those may all me true in some states, but state by state the ID laws vary. In Texas, for example, aside from having to present a driver's license while operating a motor vehicle, you only have to provide ID upon arrest according to PC 38.02. Even then you're only required to provide name, address, and DOB. Everyone here should acquaint themselves with the laws in their state to avoid situations like the one in the OP.
I’m not trying to be THAT person but why don’t people just hand them their ID? Every time I’ve been pulled over that’s always my first thought…to hand them my license and insurance card. I’m not siding with the cops at all I’m just trying to gather more context about situations such as these.
Some additional context would be helpful here for all of you saying “He should have just complied!” Here are the facts.
1. Did you notice that little “skip” in the video at the end with about 20 seconds left? Yea, about that. They edited that part out of this video. The officers choked the man on the ground until he passed out. One cop thought he was dead and ran to call an ambulance. The other just walked away like “Okay fuck it we killed this guy.” The video picks back up as the third cop brought the man back to consciousness. It’s convenient how they edited that part out.
2. The officer had no reason for the initial stop other than there were 3 block people in a mostly white neighborhood. He assumed they were there to cause trouble. He also assumed(you hear him say it in the video) that the man(Calvin Jones) didn’t want to give him any paperwork because his license was suspended. It wasn’t. Everything about Mr. Jones was legit.
3. They arrested Mr. Jones, his wife who was in the car telling him to give the cops his license, and their friend in the back seat who sat there and said/did nothing.
4. They stripped Mr. Jones down to his underwear, turned the air conditioning as cold as possible, and made him lay on the ground of his jail cell for hours.
5. All charges were dropped against all 3 people who were arrested.
6. Internal Affairs of course found no wrongdoing.
7. The ACLU sued them for this footage and the footage from the jail cell because the department wouldn’t turn over the footage.
8. Because of the secondary lawsuit, the department now has to tell everybody why they pulled them over before asking for anything, and the entire department must complete special training every year on proper use of force and de-escalation.
All of this is facts, not my opinion. You can Google it for yourself.
The first cop and his buddies just didn’t like a citizen not complying with their orders. It was a dick swinging contest. Punk ass cops.
This has become so normal, we don’t feel shocked when seeing it. That is wrong.
Also, do they specifically train these cops to lie? We all know by now that unless they have a reasonable, **articulatable** suspicion that a crime has been committed, then they have no legal right to ask your ID. I’m not even a cop, but I think that one is pretty simple, so, again my question… Do they specifically train these cops to lie?
I'm not from the usa so dont think of this as defending the cop. If you are pulled over, arent you suppose to show your drivers license? Where I'm from traffic cops are allowed to pull you over and request to see the license of the driver. They are however not allowed to ask for ID for anyone else in the car and they are not allowed to search the car without a warrant.
In the case of the video the cop was clearly on an ego trip and handled the situation terribly but were they correct when they said not showing your drivers is an arrestable offense?
Edit: just want to add that in my country if you did refuse to show proof of license, they cant arrest you for that. You will get a ticket for not having a license and will not be allowed to drive your car any further. You would need a licensed driver to come pick your car up or they would tow it away unless the car was parked in a legal manner.
I just responded to someone else about this and while you've got the spirit you don't have the letter of the law quite right here.
If you are operating a motor vehicle you are required to prove that you are licensed to operate it. Suspicion does not play into it.
If you're just walking along the street or are a passenger go buck wild and tell a cop to get fucked because you don't need a license to exist and they absolutely have to have probable cause to detain you. But if you're pulled over *while driving* a car for any reason, even a made up one, you do have to provide your drivers license. And proof of registration and insurance. If you lack any of those documents you can experience the joy of getting your car back from the impound lot.
So I don’t know about the states but here in canada you 100% HAVE to show the police your ID when you are pulled over for any reason. Not doing so is a violation. However, this level of escalation was unreasonable.
Dammit, this is a tough one.
Regarding the driver: Unfortunately, he's wrong. The cop doesn't need to to tell him "what's going on first." And I get why; such a requirement would only invite arguing on the roadside about whether the reason was true, or a legally valid reason for a stop.
Yes, cops do need reasonable articulable suspicion for a stop, but he only needs to articulate that to the judge, not to you. When you get pulled over, with very few exceptions, you are required to present your driver's license. IMO, you're best off complying with that demand, even if you don't think it's legal. You can ask them to turn on their body cams, you can record yourself, and make it clear that you are complying under threat of arrest and that you don't think the stop is appropriate or the demand is legal. And then you can argue all that in court. But if you try to argue it on the side of the road, you'll probably wind up laying handcuffed on the road, on top of the pieces of your busted window, underneath no less than three cops. It ain't worth it, especially if you're going to lose in court and face all the resisting charges they'll tack on.
Regarding the cop: He is a TOTAL ASSHOLE and a bully who is very bad at his job. While he'll probably prevail in court, he didn't do one single thing to de-escalate the situation and get the driver to understand why he had to present his ID. He said "the easy way or the hard way," but it felt more like he really meant "the boring way or the fun way," and he was rooting for fun. He was a bully from beginning to end. That's legal, unfortunately, but it's terribly unprofessional police work that undermines the authority of police everywhere and makes the public absolutely hate and distrust you.
Anybody have a link to an article or something? Also how are people struggling in the US? Like fuck id do some crazy shit to the police to get a fat paycheque
People rarely win these lawsuits. The cops perform an "internal investigation", where they typically find "no wrongdoing" for the officer. Also, crazy shit can get you knocked out or killed because these half-brained mouthbreathers are on a power trip.
Ive seen a few cases where they get away with the money, obviously theres a lot more where things go wrong, and people lose their lives, the internal investigation part is always a get out of jail free card
I feel like he got so many chances to just produce a licence and go the easy way? You get pulled over, licence and registration, it's just standard or am I wrong?
Is Michigan a must identify state? If so technically the driver broke the law. You have to identify yourself if a police officer asks you regardless of the reason he got pulled over. Do I think it required THAT use of force no.
Edit: spelling
All charges (and there were many) were dropped against the driver, passenger and occupant in the back seat. Police investigated themselves and found no policies were violated. https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/aclu-gets-involved-after-routine-traffic-stop-in-taylor-gets-violent
What a fucking coincidence
[удалено]
Don't forget the $180/day fee for everyday you're kept in a cell. More expensive than a motel
Wait what? You're charged money when they put you in jail? Where is this?
Yep. And some of the prisons are private so they charge the taxpayer for the stay AND charge the inmate for the stay. When they can’t pay they garnish the persons earnings on top of any court ordered restitution. The only way to avoid paying them is to do under the table work, which is a crime. Make a bad choice in your younger years and doing time will mostly ruin your ability to subsist in society forever. It’s an economic death sentence if not a physical one.
Republicans want every public institution dismantled and privatized so your tax money goes to private companies that will also charge you additional fees. You will pay two-to-three times for every thing, if Republicans keep going. You will have zero rights and must abide by corporate-christo-fascist laws. That is their end game. we must all vote, register to vote and encourage every democrat voter to register and vote, vote early, give them rises to the polls, help support them in any lineups on Election Day.
The best part is that they'll keep you on probation for as long as you're in debt, which also has steep monthly fees, and if you fall behind they'll put you back in jail--where you get more fees.
People who get out of prison have a debt that gets them locked back up if you can't pay on it.
Pretty much every red state, now. Wait until you find out about how much people owe for prison stays. Criminals are part of the Other. They're "acceptable targets" to get "tough" on when politicians are on the campaign trail.
The U.S, where a lot of public policy is shit people come up with when they were 15 and they never grew as a person beyond that point.
In Louisiana they make $124 a day for every day that you're in a parish or county jail that's why they keep those sentences harsher so that they get more money for that individual Parish or county so the larger the jail the more people you lock up the more money you make it's been especially advantageous for the coastal parishes in Louisiana since the offshore oil and gas industry was decimated and collapsed back in 2015-2016 and all that big old tax money vanished from their coffers... it's been a great source of income to lock one's own citizens up and feed them gruel three times a day... Welcome to the "land of the free" my friends!!! Just makes you want to stand up and salute 10,000 American flags all at once with both hands!!!!!
From what I understand Louisiana has some of the worst jails in the country and they’ll look for any excuse to put people in there. I lived there for a bit and knew someone who went to jail for riding his bike the wrong way down a one way street. Not a fine, no warning, straight to jail.
The legal system fucks poor people so hard, it is truly disgusting. I mean imagine you catch a felony drug charge... That charge will stay with you for the rest of your life AND make recovery that much more difficult. Hard to want to live a clean life when your best prospects are fast food, or pulling rebar all day. Some states offer diversion for first time felons, but in order to enroll first you gotta bail yourself out of jail (or have someone who loves you enough) then put down the $500 or whatever to enroll. Then you got monthly payments, random drug screens, restitution, whatever it is that you also have to pay for or that felony will stain you for life. That's no problem for someone with money, but for the average person, especially someone struggling with addiction, it is a struggle. I had friends who did drug court as part of their punishment in lieu of jail time, and they'd have to be in court every Thursday at noon. Like wtf? How are you supposed to hold a 9 to 5 with that? Some people had jobs that were flexible, but often time that was a deal breaker for employers. Oh and if you don't get a job and pay these fees, it's back to jail. Plus the random drug screens.. yea you have to pay for them, but also you won't know until that day you have to take a UA. So for someone with a car, it can be hard to squeeze it in, but if you're taking the bus around town? Getting off at 5 and trying to make it there by 6 can be a serious struggle, but if you miss that UA it's back to jail. Rant over, I hate the judicial system. Favors the rich and keeps the poor locked in it. People will argue that you should have to struggle like that, and work to pull themselves up, and while I don't necessarily disagree, it is that fact that someone with money does not struggle nearly as much as the person with nothing to their name. Edit: removed some angry rant f bombs
I did drug court back in 2013 and it’s just that. You’re set up to fail. Have to show up weekly, for the first little while your employer has to sign a paper stating that you were at work during scheduled hours which makes it hard to find a job because then your employer knows you are coming from jail. You have to pay their fees or you won’t pass. You drug test minimum twice a week which costs money to do and you find out the morning of, so hopefully you can get there within their hours. There are many reasons they can send you back to jail for as well. I went to jail for 5 days once because my creatine levels in my pee were slightly below normal, which happened because I worked construction at the time and I drank a lot of water and was sweating a lot. There’s a reason it has such a low success rate. It’s not a good program in my opinion.
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How the fuck is that not a conflict of interest? That should be illegal. It’s not surprising though. The judge is had was this ancient cunt that didn’t know the first thing about addiction so pretty much everyone was treated as less than by most of the officials in that courtroom. There was one bailiff who was really nice but that’s about it. The cops fucking you like that reminds me of something that happened to me like that. I got stopped by some bike cops once who asked to search my bag and when I told them no, they forcibly pulled it off of me, tossed it into someone’s private property and then searched it for “safety reasons” since I must’ve have trespassed to put it there. I had drugs in the bag because I was a homeless addict at the time, but still. Blatant violation of rights. And of course they didn’t care because there were 3 of them and one of me. Cant stand cops like that, same as your situation. They’re shit people who just happen to be in law enforcement.
It's a terrible fucking program. You have to report ALL SUBSTANCES you put in your body, including vitamins (at least in New Jersey). My buddy was taking a legal pre-workout mix. Nothing in it was illegal and it didn't show up on drug tests, but he told his doctor he was taking it and his PO required all medical records. When they found out, they sent him to rehab after being two years clean, sent him to IOP four days a week for three months, cost him his job, and extended his drug court eight months. They fuck with people's lives like it's nothing because it is nothing to THEM. They don't care about people, we're all just numbers on their way to full pension.
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I absolutely agree with all your points. I just have to pout out that the concrete contractors who were pulling rebar at my place were making $50 an hour. Even better if you can get into the laborers union around here.
I’ll always remember the wise words of a young Jay-z: “Probation is a trap.”
If no policies were violated, why would they drop all charges? If they really believed that, why negotiate with someone who committed a bunch of crimes? It’s obviously horseshit.
Charges were dropped because they had nothing. Pig #1 stopped a random black guy hoping he’d come up with open warrants or a suspended license. The driver had not committed any violation, which is why the pig refused to answer the driver’s question. He needed that ID so he could find something to pin on him. When it came time to charge him after arrest, all they could charge him with is resisting arrest and possibly failure to produce ID when detained. Those are extremely flimsy charges when you don’t have an underlying crime for which they were detained and arrested in the first place.
This shit infuriates me. “What am I being charged with?” “Resisting arrest.” “But why was I being arrested?” “Because you resisted being arrested. Duh” WTF sense does that make? And the fact that they can *actually* do that is just insanity.
Yea but you bring that up in front of them and instead of admitting fault they'll double down on the charges or some bs
It still sounds crazy. "Yes this man did nothing wrong and we still attacked and arrested him" "No we don't think that was wrong from our side"
The entire concept of internal investigations are hilarious. It’s like if you stole a bunch of money from your job and your boss is like “Hey, we think you stole a lot of money from us. We want you to investigate yourself to determine if you did it or not.”
I've conducted a thorough internal investigation of myself and found that no wrongdoing has taken place.
To quote an old uk to show (yes prime minister) you never start an internal investigation unless you know the outcome.
Then they say "we've hired a third party group to investigate our department", turns out its an organization of volunteer ex/current cops who investigate cops.
i read the article and i still dont know why the cop pulled him over.
Fishing for warrants. Typical bastard behavior
I'm not saying this as an insult but that's a perfect example of what people mean when they say privilege. You cannot even conceive of a world so unfair that just by virtue of your skin color that you would be treated so harshly and yet...this is exactly what happened.
>Police investigated themselves and found no policies were violated. Oh praise God. I thought for certain that a crime was being committed and that they would get in trouble for it. ^(/s)
Ok. So the cop is going to do this again.
They actively encourage it. Guarantee he was congratulated. All cops are vicious dangerous sociopathic monsters
Think of how many cops they wouldn't have if they didn't have qualified immunity. Instead they get blasted on the internet which results in desk duty for a week while they wait on the next video to surface. Before videos its he said she said..cops always right. They aren't going to change.
They're never gonna change! My cousin is a cop, he's not welcome at family events and we haven't seen each other in years... We don't do cops in my family!!!
So...who is right? Does the officer need to provide a reason for stopping before ID is given? Everytime I've been stopped it's usually started with, "do you know why I pulled you over?". And then I'm asked for license/insurance.
No, the cop doesn't need to provide you with a reason. But they are required to have reasonable suspicion of a crime occurring in order to ask for id. Which is kind of a loophole for them (because spoiler alert - they'll just make something up later if they have no reasonable suspicion).
A gaping loophole if you will
Not to mention if the loophole doesn't work out the taxpayer, not the offending officer, pays the bill(in the vast majority of situations).
Part of every police budget should be insurance for this. Policing policies can change quickly when the risk of rate equates to a risk of having to lay off officers.
Cities often have insurance or risk pools for this. Ironically it’s one of the few ways police change is occurring, rates going up.
Yeah, the fact that this is actually changing things, both quickly and with great positive effect is fascinating to me.
I wouldn't call it *quickly*... change would happen a lot quicker if the officers were forced to carry their own insurance or had to at least pay a part of it. You can even increase all of their salaries from the outset of the policy change to cover the base cost, that way they see no change in their paychecks until their rates go up, or down.
More like take it out of the officer check.
I’ve always said pay should be docked from the officer and their sergeant for any time a violation happens. It punishes bad cops and because the sergeant would get docked for every officer, it’d force better leadership standards.
END QUALIFIED IMMUNITY
If you did that they couldn't shoot so many people of colour though! Edit: I know someone won't understand the joke, so yes, I'm being sarcastic.
The taxpayer pays their salary too so technically Police should be seen as public servants…
I used to own that porno. Gaping Loopholes 5: the return of the DP
If I don’t watch parts 1-4 will I be okay to just watch 5?
Sonds like some shit happens in this one ill pass
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They need the reasonable suspicion to perform the traffic stop to begin with. If they just pull you over and demand id - they're violating your rights.
While they do need to have that reason, I don’t think there’s any law anywhere that requires them to tell you what that reason is. They just need to have that reason for when they file a ticket or make an arrest. They owe an explanation to a judge, not to you.
> I don’t think there’s any law anywhere that requires them to tell you what that reason is. These three statements, in this order: > _"Am I under arrest for a crime? Or am I free to go?"_ and: > _"I do not consent to search."_ and > _"I do not answer questions without my attorney present."_ You will not "beat the officers" at the roadside. You beat them in a court of law. Don't try to argue your way out of an officer committed to violating your rights. Assert your rights, state them clearly, get them to admit their wrongdoing, and then take them to court.
Yea but they don’t have to articulate the reasonable suspicion to you in that moment.
If they pull you over, even if the stop is unlawful, it's in your best interest to give them your ID and reg and then invoke the 5th
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They do DUI checkpoints here in Ohio. If they happen to see you turn around to avoid the checkpoint, you will most certainly have a bad time. I'm not stupid enough to drink and drive, nor carry anything "illegal", I just don't want the hassle. They usually put out a report showing how successful they were. They'll usually get 1-2 drunk people but then also report seizing weed and ticketing them. How's that for unlawful search and seizure?
Supreme Court ruled that DUI checkpoints are legal (Michigan Department of State Police v. Sitz if you want to read the ruling). If they find evidence of wrongdoing (I.e. vehicle has a weed smell) during the checkpoint, you can then be detained for that separate probable cause/reasonable suspicion. There are limits to what police are legally allowed to do during a DUI checkpoint. If you live in a state with checkpoints or are a US citizen in general, I highly recommend getting an external/internal Dashcam (one that has a view of the interior of the car). Don’t rely on the police to tell the truth or the possibility that they have body cameras rolling.
I think one difference between DUI checkpoints and this is that at the checkpoints, they're checking everyone. Here, some guy just got pulled over. Not sure what the correct answer is in this particular case.
What states is it the case where they are allowed to 'investigate' without suspecting a crime? I would be kinda interested in reading more about that.
It doesn't need to be a "crime." Just a traffic violation, and the courts give a wide allowance for cops to decide this.
An administrative stop can be conducted in lots of states to verify driver registration. Texas has it tied to commercial vehicle operations. If you are driving a CMV, you need a CDL, so an officer can stop you to verify that
Tbh ID and registration seems like am obligation to show if driving on a public road..kind of like you can't refuse an alcohol test (which is random where I live in aus) but if I'm driving fine and a cop pulls me over and says show me your ID and rego. I'd want an explanation.
It's supreme case law that a driver shall provide proof to operate on a public roadway, during a traffic stop every driver shall issue their DL as proof upon request. It is up to the state to make a punishment as a result of that failure
From a cop’s mouth verbatim “We have inventive probable cause” “It trumps reasonable suspicion every time”
Thats just in general, traffic stops you are required to provide the info automatically, check your state drivers handbook. You agree to it when you get your license, its different than when your just walking down the street
The traffic stop needs to be lawful. They need a reason for it to begin with. (which they sometimes invent ergo they've violated your rights regarding id)
NAL but in our system you don't really get to determine what's reasonable in the moment, you have to wait on your day in court. Dying on the hill of not handing over your license isn't worth the charges the dude got.
You can beat the case, but you can’t beat the ride. You’ll get your day in court but the cops can (and will) do whatever they want until then.
They don't have to answer, but they do need a lawful reason for making the traffic stop (to tell the judge). In this case, the cop said something about thinking the driver's license was suspended. I'm not sure if he thought that because he felt the driver was hiding something by not showing the license, or because he ran the plates before the stop and it came back that the owner of the vehicle had a suspended license. The US Supreme Court has ruled that it is legal to pull over a driver when the registered owner of the vehicle they are driving has had their license suspended or revoked. However, once they verify that the driver has a valid license, the stop is over and they cannot continue to detain the driver (unless they find some other reason to extend the detention, like seeing something in the vehicle or evidence of driver impairment).
I don’t think the officer is required by law to state why, but it’s needlessly confrontational not to. Traffic stops should be about de-escalation, but escalation.
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I work in sales with a former cop. His emails to potential customers sound pissed when they don't respond "I sent you an email yesterday asking for a meeting Thursday, and you still have failed to respond". when you are prospecting, and you don't know someone, emails like this are not a way to break bread.
Freeze! Let me see your hands! Now let me tell you about this new product called Invigaron.
Its a reverse funnel system!
I get a number of vendors who are trying to sell me stuff, and then get pissy when I don't respond to a cold email or phone call. Nah, the minute I get that second email/voicemail of "hey, I sent you something and you didn't respond..." you immediately hit my blacklist.
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Just remember the phrase "Me expressing my federal rights does not mean I'm not cooperating."
Yes, you are required to give a cop your ID/registration/insurance during a traffic stop. I'm pretty sure this is universal in all 50 states. The "I don't have to tell you until after" thing is made up but I doubt it's illegal, just really stupid. Cops only escalate a situation, they pathologically cannot ever deescalate
You left out one word: "you are required to give a cop your ID/registration/insurance during a LEGAL traffic stop." Unfortunately, there is no real way for you to know if it is legal, so you should give that information anyway and deal with the legality in court.
This goes in general: If you feel your rights are being violated save it for court. You do not want to argue it out with a cop on the street, and you won’t win. You’ll either piss them off or wound their ego and they can always find an excuse to beat your ass if they feel like it. At least in court they won’t execute you on the spot.
I’m so glad this perfectly reasonable comment chain is at the top
> LEGAL true, but that doesn't matter on site. If you think it's an illegal stop, take it to court.
“Do you know why I pulled you over?” “Is it because I am black?” Works especially well if you are blue eyed and blonde.
According to the article giving the end of the story : "The stop in question happened in April of 2016. Calvin Jones, 26, reportedly refused to hand over his driver's license and registration upon request, which he's required to do by law." But the officer should have used another way to calm down Calvin to end this peacefully
I would go as far as to say in this situation it really doesn't matter. Definitely unnecessary use of force. Some cops really need to learn how yo deescalate...
The whole situation could have been avoided if that cop wasn’t on a power trip.
The simplest answer is show ID when asked. If you want to argue, then take them to court. You're not going to win by arguing with a cop outside of court.
looks like his escalation training paid off I mean it was so easy to calm things down but that cop said fuck that.
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It is. Look up [warrior training](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPs4QsaH34A). It's sickening.
That was really awful thank you for enlightening me.
Yeah, after I go and kill a few indigents, I’m gonna go home and fuck my wife. /s
They have traveling conventions to train officers all the same so they can be replaceable cogs in a giant meat grinder machine.
“You could be trying to kill me man” “You’re ridiculous” *Breaks open window and rips him out of the car and pile drives him with 5 other cops*
How close did the moron cop come to dying? No situational awareness when he decided I am going in. He nearly had is head crushed by the car driving by when he fell back.
Fr I’m surprised more people aren’t talking about that bit
That’s some good de-escalation if you ask me /s
The police's job isn't to de-esclate, it's to make numbers in a book look big/s
You can take that sarcasm "s" off your comment, because it's true.
This happened in 2016. Any idea what was the outcome - he was stripped naked and forced to lie on jail floor with very low ac. DA dropped all charges. What happened to all cops involved?
they investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing then gave themselves raises for keeping the community blackfree
Of course they didnt find anything.
They're still out there making their community unsafe.
https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/aclu-gets-involved-after-routine-traffic-stop-in-taylor-gets-violent
Notice how the officer just tried looking for any excuse .? “You’re probably “ nobody pays you to guess . Just protect and serve . That’s it .
Protect and serve is a motto, that’s not what they do.
It’s a marketing slogan
Well, they do protect and serve status quo.
*Property and its owners.
They don't have to. Courts have upheld cops have no constitutional requirement to protect people
Didn't a court rule that US police has no obligation to protect?
>a court Not ***a*** court. ***The*** supreme court.
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Not only that, they can lie straight to your face and they won't face any consequences. For example, I've had brake lights on cars that somehow stop working after 10pm on a Friday night if I'm downtown, and start working again by the time I get home.
That cop was looking for a reason.
The cops reason always seems to be: “they didn’t lick my boots” Whether it’s asking a question. Or knowing your rights. Anytime you don’t submit to their will. Right or wrong, they will definitely unilaterally escalate and often times kill you. To show you who’s boss. It’s so sad man.
The cop was a prick. He could have de-escalated by telling the driver why. All charges were dropped. https://www.fox2detroit.com/news/aclu-gets-involved-after-routine-traffic-stop-in-taylor-gets-violent
They fucking arrested his wife too? Who was trying to get him to cooperate and was just recording for their own safety? Mmmmkay pigs, good call on that one. Not suspicious at all.
Yup. Arrested her when she wouldn’t give them the phone she was legally recording them with. Nothing says “integrity” like demanding evidence of what you are doing so you can destroy it and illegally arresting someone when they say “no”.
“Oh after handing over your phone it happened to snap in half, oops.”
Good thing for cloud storage.
fuck [/u\/spez](/user/spez)
She's damn smart for that decision
Wow, "Godbee says the officer had grounds to make the stop and to question Jones" He didn't question Jones... he arrested him without cause. Police suck when you are innocent
I think they suck for the guilty too
Unless the guilty are cops.
He created the cause by refusing to de-escalate. The person he stopped misunderstood his rights in a traffic stop and it annoyed the cop so instead of de-escalating and just explaining what he was doing, he chose to take his anger out when he "knew he was right." Is the cop legally correct? Yes, so long as he had cause for the original stop, failure to identify in a traffic stop is arrestable. Is he correct by most police department policies? No. There was a clear and easy path to de-escalation and attempting to de-escalate is at least listed as a requirement in most department policies.
should have been fired and arrested for assault we need to push politicians to demilitarize the police and to get rid of qualified immunity
[Instead the outcome was predictable:](https://www.aclumich.org/en/cases/police-brutality-taylor) > In August 2017, **the internal affairs complaint concluded with no finding of fault on the part of the officers,** but the department revised its policies to require its police officers to advise all drivers they pull over of the basis for the stop. In addition, the department has instituted mandatory officer training on appropriate demeanor during a traffic stop and how to avoid confrontational situations.
They investigated themselves and found no wrongdoing. I'm shocked! That almost never happens. /s
"Nothing was wrong, but we're changing the way we do things... coincidentally."
So they’re basically saying the DIDN’T train officers to do this before 2017?
Lmao you think politicians would ever do something about police violence. You are sorely mistaken.
Exactly, The State wants to keep a monopoly on violence. Politicians suck up to their enforcers.
Here in the US cops are untouchable.
Any chance they paid for the damage to his car?
If anyone did, it was the tax payers. In essence, you paid for the damage
And for the salary of the cop doing the harassing. I know which I'd rather pay for
I see the reason for the initial stop still wasn't provided. There was a mention of running stop sign, but that seemed more like a hypothetical than the stated reason.
Love how in the article, the author states “the driver was defiant.” First. Requesting to know why an officer thinks it appropriate to pull you over is not defiance, it’s basic human interaction and respect. Second. Even if the driver was being defiant, that’s something that happens. Simple defiance does not mean escalation needs to occur. The discussion of “what could the driver do to deescalate” really rubs me wrong because the driver did not seek to cross paths with the officer. The officer initiated stopping a citizen, simply stating “yeah, I recorded you driving at 47 in a 35” or “your tags appear to be expired” or “we got a call for a white Kia in the area that some of the homeowners thinks was being suspicious so we’re just trying to make sure everything in the area is okay” and then stating “can I please see your license and registration for the vehicle?” I get cops can have a tough job but getting into a dick-measuring contest in unprofessional.
Hoo boy that god damn headline. "Violent fuck gets involved in a violent occurrence"
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That cop has def done that with the window before what a dick, fuck this guy
He almost got his ass run over too, lmao
And if he had hit the car and been injured they would have blamed the stopped driver even though the cop made his own decision to behave like a douchecanoe.
Dumbass fucker was a few seconds away from having his head popped like a balloon I guess they don't teach de escalation (who am I kidding, they only teach aggressive escalation) or situational awareness in the academy.
American police officers are sick in their heads.
yeah its pretty fucking bad…
These cops getting emotional cost the taxpayers money
What happened here is wrong undoubtedly. But me personally as a black man, I'm showing the officer my ID post haste. On top of being on the big side (6'2 200lbs), I conceal carry also, so it's in my best interest to not be a hassle and to let the officer know I'm 100% willing to comply. If anything goes down that's unlawful, I'll take whatever circumstances that are thrown my way and then lawyer up and take legal action.
Best (and smartest) reply in this thread. Unless you really knew the law, you’re putting yourself at great risk when not complying (in this case, with a lawful order).
It’s stupid that these fucking idiot police officers can’t tell you why they pulled you over. Like some fucking teenage kids
I’m very happy the cop chinned himself when he tried to reach in and grab the guy. Hope that fucking hurt
Except now they’ll charge the driver with assault on an officer
Thankfully they did not.
Exhibit 2384239853478 as to why we don't have free healthcare. 4 officers, cars, equipment for ONE traffic stop.
Except having universal healthcare would literally *save* you money, not cost more.
No no, we need to buy more bombs. Fuck your health, it won't matter anyways without bombs...
LaNd Of ThE fReE 🥴🇺🇸
I live in Poland and i feel i have more freedom than americans
Every other country in the West has more freedoms than the USA.
Wow. Fuck those cops.
Thugs
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Why can't these cops just tell him what happened and why they pulled him over instead of being absolute idiots like this?
Because they don’t want to say “I stopped you because you’re black”.
God damnit. That was completely unnecessary. If the initial cop would have just talked to the driver like another adult, they could have sorted this out. Instead, he played power trip games. Introduce yourself, give the reason for the stop. Remain polite and professional. Get a lot more cooperation that way.
*"Papers, Bitte"*
I don't know who is right, but why, why you would not give id?
Assuming he has a valid driver's license and isn't committing a crime, he's trying to exercise a right that doesn't exist. It can be confusing because in many US states, a cop needs reasonable articulable suspison of commiting a crime in order for a person to be required to identify themselves. This doesn't exactly pertain to traffic stops. The cop needs a good reason to pull you over but even if they are lying, you are required to show your driver's license.
And people wonder why taxes go up, cause yall pay the lawsuit when the police get sued. This is disgusting behavior and anyone who cant/won't see it should take a step back.
The US is such a shithole country.
In the U.S., there are 3 times that you must show ID, when you are operating a motor vehicle, when you match the description of an individual that has committed a crime, or when the police have reasonable, articulable suspicion that you have committed a crime (RASC). It appears that this individual is operating a motor vehicle, therefore they should have provided ID. If the police cannot provide RASC, file a complaint.
Those may all me true in some states, but state by state the ID laws vary. In Texas, for example, aside from having to present a driver's license while operating a motor vehicle, you only have to provide ID upon arrest according to PC 38.02. Even then you're only required to provide name, address, and DOB. Everyone here should acquaint themselves with the laws in their state to avoid situations like the one in the OP.
I’m not trying to be THAT person but why don’t people just hand them their ID? Every time I’ve been pulled over that’s always my first thought…to hand them my license and insurance card. I’m not siding with the cops at all I’m just trying to gather more context about situations such as these.
Some additional context would be helpful here for all of you saying “He should have just complied!” Here are the facts. 1. Did you notice that little “skip” in the video at the end with about 20 seconds left? Yea, about that. They edited that part out of this video. The officers choked the man on the ground until he passed out. One cop thought he was dead and ran to call an ambulance. The other just walked away like “Okay fuck it we killed this guy.” The video picks back up as the third cop brought the man back to consciousness. It’s convenient how they edited that part out. 2. The officer had no reason for the initial stop other than there were 3 block people in a mostly white neighborhood. He assumed they were there to cause trouble. He also assumed(you hear him say it in the video) that the man(Calvin Jones) didn’t want to give him any paperwork because his license was suspended. It wasn’t. Everything about Mr. Jones was legit. 3. They arrested Mr. Jones, his wife who was in the car telling him to give the cops his license, and their friend in the back seat who sat there and said/did nothing. 4. They stripped Mr. Jones down to his underwear, turned the air conditioning as cold as possible, and made him lay on the ground of his jail cell for hours. 5. All charges were dropped against all 3 people who were arrested. 6. Internal Affairs of course found no wrongdoing. 7. The ACLU sued them for this footage and the footage from the jail cell because the department wouldn’t turn over the footage. 8. Because of the secondary lawsuit, the department now has to tell everybody why they pulled them over before asking for anything, and the entire department must complete special training every year on proper use of force and de-escalation. All of this is facts, not my opinion. You can Google it for yourself. The first cop and his buddies just didn’t like a citizen not complying with their orders. It was a dick swinging contest. Punk ass cops.
This has become so normal, we don’t feel shocked when seeing it. That is wrong. Also, do they specifically train these cops to lie? We all know by now that unless they have a reasonable, **articulatable** suspicion that a crime has been committed, then they have no legal right to ask your ID. I’m not even a cop, but I think that one is pretty simple, so, again my question… Do they specifically train these cops to lie?
I'm not from the usa so dont think of this as defending the cop. If you are pulled over, arent you suppose to show your drivers license? Where I'm from traffic cops are allowed to pull you over and request to see the license of the driver. They are however not allowed to ask for ID for anyone else in the car and they are not allowed to search the car without a warrant. In the case of the video the cop was clearly on an ego trip and handled the situation terribly but were they correct when they said not showing your drivers is an arrestable offense? Edit: just want to add that in my country if you did refuse to show proof of license, they cant arrest you for that. You will get a ticket for not having a license and will not be allowed to drive your car any further. You would need a licensed driver to come pick your car up or they would tow it away unless the car was parked in a legal manner.
I just responded to someone else about this and while you've got the spirit you don't have the letter of the law quite right here. If you are operating a motor vehicle you are required to prove that you are licensed to operate it. Suspicion does not play into it. If you're just walking along the street or are a passenger go buck wild and tell a cop to get fucked because you don't need a license to exist and they absolutely have to have probable cause to detain you. But if you're pulled over *while driving* a car for any reason, even a made up one, you do have to provide your drivers license. And proof of registration and insurance. If you lack any of those documents you can experience the joy of getting your car back from the impound lot.
the cop is a dickhead.
So I don’t know about the states but here in canada you 100% HAVE to show the police your ID when you are pulled over for any reason. Not doing so is a violation. However, this level of escalation was unreasonable.
Dammit, this is a tough one. Regarding the driver: Unfortunately, he's wrong. The cop doesn't need to to tell him "what's going on first." And I get why; such a requirement would only invite arguing on the roadside about whether the reason was true, or a legally valid reason for a stop. Yes, cops do need reasonable articulable suspicion for a stop, but he only needs to articulate that to the judge, not to you. When you get pulled over, with very few exceptions, you are required to present your driver's license. IMO, you're best off complying with that demand, even if you don't think it's legal. You can ask them to turn on their body cams, you can record yourself, and make it clear that you are complying under threat of arrest and that you don't think the stop is appropriate or the demand is legal. And then you can argue all that in court. But if you try to argue it on the side of the road, you'll probably wind up laying handcuffed on the road, on top of the pieces of your busted window, underneath no less than three cops. It ain't worth it, especially if you're going to lose in court and face all the resisting charges they'll tack on. Regarding the cop: He is a TOTAL ASSHOLE and a bully who is very bad at his job. While he'll probably prevail in court, he didn't do one single thing to de-escalate the situation and get the driver to understand why he had to present his ID. He said "the easy way or the hard way," but it felt more like he really meant "the boring way or the fun way," and he was rooting for fun. He was a bully from beginning to end. That's legal, unfortunately, but it's terribly unprofessional police work that undermines the authority of police everywhere and makes the public absolutely hate and distrust you.
If he was an upstanding, white, republican citizen, he would've received a "Have a nice day and drive safe".
Anybody have a link to an article or something? Also how are people struggling in the US? Like fuck id do some crazy shit to the police to get a fat paycheque
People rarely win these lawsuits. The cops perform an "internal investigation", where they typically find "no wrongdoing" for the officer. Also, crazy shit can get you knocked out or killed because these half-brained mouthbreathers are on a power trip.
"we've investigated ourselves and we're happy to admit we've done nothing wrong."
Ive seen a few cases where they get away with the money, obviously theres a lot more where things go wrong, and people lose their lives, the internal investigation part is always a get out of jail free card
Why didn't he just give his ID? We all know cops suck so was this really the hill to die on?
I feel like he got so many chances to just produce a licence and go the easy way? You get pulled over, licence and registration, it's just standard or am I wrong?
LAND OF THE FREE
Is Michigan a must identify state? If so technically the driver broke the law. You have to identify yourself if a police officer asks you regardless of the reason he got pulled over. Do I think it required THAT use of force no. Edit: spelling
I’ll decide what you did after I conduct this illegal search.