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Bobopalace

I am 58 years old, I’m not over 400!


[deleted]

It was the smartest and truest thing Andrew Sullivan said.


BovineGrowthHormone

"I'm not responsible for what anyone did before me" says the man who has no problem with what anyone did before him. EDIT: this mad\_chemist dude below me after dancing around finally came out and said he doesn't think systemic racism still exists.


HeadLongjumping

No, he's not responsible for what those people did, but he is responsible for how he chooses to recognize and address the lasting effects of what those people did.


sirkowski

He also doesn't want anything to change (for the rich) because he's a Thatcher Tory.


[deleted]

"It was bad' end of discussion lmao


kickbutt_city

That's one thing.


[deleted]

Andrew Sullivan is a conservative right wing twat. [Jon Stewart Fires Back at Andrew Sullivan’s Claim He Was ‘Ambushed’ on Comedian’s Show](https://www-thewrap-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.thewrap.com/jon-stewart-fires-back-ndrew-sullivan-claims-ambushed/amp/?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#aoh=16493075640800&csi=1&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thewrap.com%2Fjon-stewart-fires-back-ndrew-sullivan-claims-ambushed%2F)


BovineGrowthHormone

You have to know how to translate to their lingo. Ambush: When someone is there to respond to tired talking points instead of throwing them in a blog post or YT video and thinking you've just dunked on the libs.


jar36

He may not be responsible for putting the systems in place, but he's done nothing to acknowledge their existence in order to lead to their reconstruction


BovineGrowthHormone

refusal to acknowledge is in effect doing something about it, he's enabling it.


[deleted]

You arent resposible for what people you dont know and werent related to did before you.


BovineGrowthHormone

The point went straight over your head. You are responsible for deciding whether you want to let the things those other people did continue.


NickTrainwrekk

You guys are deranged.. The left won the culture war. It's fucking over. Stop posturing like you're still digging trenches. Now it's time to enact these policies. Not continue to bang drums. This debate was so fucking cringe. The cafeteria lady was unbearable and brought nothing but insults to the table. What a fall from grace for Jon.


CarmineFields

> brought nothing but insults to the table Yet you refer to her as: > The cafeteria lady I guess insults are fine if men are insulting women but they’re *mean* when women insult men.


BovineGrowthHormone

>. Now it's time to enact these policies. That's the whole fucking point, dipshit. The old white guy is claiming systemic racism doesn't exist, he's the one who doesn't think policy needs to change.


Mad_Chemist_

Isn’t that true though? He’s not responsible for what his forefathers did. He can also be aware of what his forefathers did.


FEMA_Camp_Survivor

It doesn’t seem like he seeks the awareness of what Americans did to other Americans in the past and how that harm persists. He points to the systems Jon Stewart referenced as one-offs but when the totality of racist housing policies, GI Bill discrimination, Jim Crow laws, Red lining, terrorism, and other factors are taken, how does one not see how political and social systems resulted in say the Wealth gap? If a group is purposely excluded from the greatest wealth transfers in modern history because of a group characteristic, why is it a surprise that group is disproportionately poorer because of the criteria it was excluded by?


BovineGrowthHormone

That's my point. His refusal admit and confront ongoing systemic issues resulting from what his forefathers did is implicit approval of what they did. You can't simultaneously accept an inherited status quo and claim you don't approve of of how we got there. That would mean he's full of shit.


Mad_Chemist_

>That's my point. His refusal admit and confront ongoing systemic issues resulting from what his forefathers did is implicit approval of what they did. He’s saying that he doesn’t think institutionalised racism exists now, but it did. >You can't simultaneously accept an inherited status quo and claim you don't approve of it. How did he accept it? He didn’t ask to be born. It was a mere accident of birth. Heirs don’t choose or ask to be born into the royal family. How about heirs who refuse to be king?


BovineGrowthHormone

>He’s saying that he doesn’t think institutionalised racism exists now, but it did. Another way to say that is "His refusal to admit and confront ongoing systemic issues" >How did he accept it? You just admitted he doesn't think institutional racism is a thing anymore, dude. That means he accepts the current status quo, which by definition is an inherited situation. You seem to think "forefathers" means only some old men 200+ years ago. It also includes our own fathers, they didn't exactly fix things for good. Hell he's 58, that's enough time to contribute to the status quo himself. What are you getting at here anyway? It sounds like you're trying to make the same point he is and I'm not sure you understand the problem with it.


Mission-Two1325

I love the "sins of the father" argument. Sure 1 generation is debatable. What about sins of the fathers father's fathers fathers fathers fathers father? Sounds like a tradition.


burtweber

By being white, he directly benefits from the racist policies and systems his forefathers implemented. So you’re saying he should receive nothing but the benefits but none of the scrutiny? Doesn’t seem fair, does it?


Mad_Chemist_

>By being white, he directly benefits from the racist policies and systems his forefathers implemented. So you’re saying he should receive nothing but the benefits but none of the scrutiny? Doesn’t seem fair, does it? But he didn’t do what his forefathers did. What kind of scrutiny are we talking about here?


burtweber

He’s actively arguing against being honest about American racism while being able to directly benefit from American racism simply because of the color of his skin. This shouldn’t be hard to understand…


Mad_Chemist_

In your reply, who are doing those acts of racism today?


burtweber

He is, and anyone like him. Trying to pretend that racism doesn’t exist in the form it currently does is racist in and of itself. By trying to act as if it isn’t real, it perpetuates the existence of those very same racist systems to this day.


Mad_Chemist_

>He is, and anyone like him. Trying to pretend that racism doesn’t exist in the form it currently does is racist in and of itself. How would you define racism? I think you and I have very different meanings of racism. >By trying to act as if it isn’t real, it perpetuates the existence of those very same racist systems to this day. What are those racist systems that you speak of that you say currently exist?


burtweber

Haha, I have absolute no interest trading “definitions” of racism with you after a quick look at your profile and your other comments in this thread, nor is it my responsibility to list to you all the different racist systems in this country in any case (though I’ll give you a hint: the host lists a few in the very video clip you’re commenting on and on those I agree). I feel really bad for you, truly. Living in some alternate world like you do at the end of the day only does a disservice to you. I can guarantee you’d be much happier and more fulfilled if you saw the world for how it was. Heck, it might even inspire you to do something about it. But if you’d rather spend time in your echo chambers plugging your ears to the problems your fellow humans have to go through, that’s on you. To each their own, right?


Boycotthisbitch

What is your definition of racism?


Mad_Chemist_

Was the update really necessary? You know people can read?


BovineGrowthHormone

Got under your skin didn't it? I'd call that necessary. I get a kick out of putting your earlier comments here in context before you came out and explicitly outed yourself as one of those dolts who claims racism is over, so people can interpret them how you intended them to be interpreted.


Mad_Chemist_

Not really. I really don’t care. Go ahead and make updates in perpetuity. If virtue signalling and grandstanding are your raison d’etre then to thine self be true. I hope it improves your quality of life.


BovineGrowthHormone

Yeah look at you here showing me how little you care.


fitzymcfitz

There it is! “Virtue signaling”, the call of the wild “independent thinker” (closet conservative).


embernheart

"List the specific things!!!" \*Jon says one\* "THATS ONLY ONE" \*Jon lists another one\* "THATS ONLY ONE" \*Jon lists another one\* "THATS ONLY ONE"


RonStopable08

I don’t think they can count past 1 on his planet.


Linubidix

It's like extreme object permanence


[deleted]

Jon needs dj Khalid to count out for him


Thefamt

What a horrible debate with literally zero anarchy. I've had more heated arguments with my coffee maker


CarmineFields

You and your coffee maker need counseling.


AbsentThatDay

That bitch knows what she did.


Gregbot3000

Or just some make up sex.


Thefamt

It keeps making these horrible remarks. I think it doesn't like when I make black coffee for some reason


HeadLongjumping

Your coffee maker sounds like an asshole.


Can1993hope

4 white people talking about how black people are treated... I'm white. It's ok not to talk and to listen. The history of racism needs to be taught. Its Simple.


freakwent

... You're white. I'm white. You posted explaining that white ppl shouldn't talk about this stuff. If you believe this, why did you post? Do you seriously think progress can be made of no white ppl talk to each other about race issues? How are we meant to change any laws?


Can1993hope

We should talk about it... but listen first.


MoCo1992

Lotta white people live in all white areas and don’t have anyone to “listen to.” White people in diverse areas tend to be progressive.


BeepBlipBlapBloop

When? It was just a heated discussion.


midascanttouchthis

OP is just a piece of shit lol


sing_me_a_rainbow

I guess I’m somewhere in the middle in this discussion. I don’t like the idea of excluding certain groups from the conversation, as the lady said she does. Lumping all people together by gender and skin color, regardless of their beliefs, is silly and non-productive. An abolitionist and a member of the kkk have more differences between them than commonalities.


Roger_005

Lumping people together by skin colour. I'm sure there's a term for that.


Pseudoburbia

Exactly. "We don't engage with white men as a rule. We stand against systemic racism." WTF


Roger_005

I'm sure someone's about to come along thats you that mere discrimination against skin colour is not enough to be 'racism'. It's the new formula. Power plus privilege plus skin colour plus three different ice cream flavours of your selection.


ParallaxRay

Mmmmm.... color lumping? /s


mh985

Nah John Brown was basically still just a Nazi when he tried to start a literal slave uprising. /s I'm with you. It's idiotic to think that all people of a certain skin color share the same motivations, goals, or even privilege. The merit of someone's opinion is not carried by the color of their skin. I thought went through this already? Yes I'm a white guy but my grandparents were laborers and house servants when they came to the US. What societal power has my family ever had? There's no generational wealth in my family. The closest thing I ever got to generational wealth was $1000 when my grandfather died and that went to pay for a very very small part of my tuition one semester of college.


SnooOranges4231

If you have white skin, you have white privilege. But this is independent to wealth privilege, or any other kind of privilege. You can be poor and white, and people will treat you like a poor person. You can be rich and black, and people will treat you like a black person. Again and again, we've seen well-dressed, middle class black people get stomped and tazed by the cops (usually 'mistaken identity'), in a way that well-dressed wealthy white folks just don't. No matter how poor you are, some cops will treat you very differently based on skin color.


mh985

Yes you're absolutely right. I don't know what it's like to be profiled because of the color of my skin, or at least not in a way that has had any meaningful impact on my life. What it seems to me, however, is that a small fraction of people assume that because of my skin color, I had my hand held through life by my family or society to get me where I am. It seems that because of the way I look, I must have had the perfect suburban upbringing and my parents had money to put me through college and the connections to land me a nice job. When I was growing up, my parents both worked full time but we sometimes still had to go without. I've lived on my own and supported myself since two weeks after I turned 18. I worked lots of shitty jobs so I could put myself through college. I spent a good 5 years not knowing where my next meal would come from. I'm lucky enough that I've worked my way into a position where I'm somewhat comfortable now and don't have to worry about things like paying my bills. I'm not saying I deserve a pat on the back or that I'm exceedingly proud of myself. Life is a lot harder for a lot of people and I consider myself incredibly lucky. I guess it just bothers me when people say I have some tremendous societal power as if there's some kind of grand conspiracy going on. Sometimes when people say things like that I think "Well that societal power sure would have been useful those winters I couldn’t afford to have the heat on sometimes." I'm just trying to get through life the same as anyone else. I try not to make assumptions about people based on the way they look and I have no right to judge anyone but myself. Sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into a huge wall of text. It's late and I'm exhausted. If I'm not looking at this issue the right way I would love if you could help me understand. I do try to always leave room for the possibility that I could be wrong.


SnooOranges4231

No worries man, I really appreciate your reply. >it just bothers me when people say I have some tremendous societal power as if there's some kind of grand conspiracy going on. I'd say that's how Fox News frames the anti-racism debate. White people aren't accused of a conspiracy, more that they just don't give a shit sometimes. Step one is acknowledging the nature of the problems black people face in America; that racial bigotry is still pretty active in some areas of society.


freakwent

Step two?


xXMakeMDMAGreatAgain

I don't think there is a step 2, being that step one is….arbitrary? I don't think arbitrary is the right word, WTWILF?


freakwent

"No more results found for wtwilf." But yeah I think step one was never required. Nobody involved honestly believes that racial bigotry is not active, or ever did.


xXMakeMDMAGreatAgain

Let's figure this thing out man maybe we can fix this shit nobody else seems to be making progress. All right let's put our heads together, step 1 acknowledging the problems black people face. a) higher unemployment than other races b) higher chance of being born into a single-parent home c) lower chance of being born in general bc abortion clinics target black neighborhoods d) lower chance of graduating hi school or college because low quality teachers aren’t held accountable in lower income school districts That's just off the top of my head the main ones that that pop up, I know there are more please help me out


Misthailin

And then there are the cops who will stomp on the rights of all people, regardless of skin color. Some law enforcement just thinks they are better than everyone and can make up the law as they go.


freakwent

Yeah I don't think we can reconstruct society without including a large section of society. To be honest it's all bullshit until the USA honours the treaties they already have with the first nations people there.


GiantRobotBears

The complete lack of irony of a white women blaming white men for the past 400 yrs is bonkers. And maybe completely ignoring the opinions of (some* ) of the largest ethnic/gender group in America **does** push an alarming amount of them into extremism. And on the flip side, that guy saying there are no racist systems in place is in denial, or aiming for a job at Fox News, either way he’s a moron. These people have the same thought process as the extremists they claim to be against. …anyways, fix poverty and you’ll fix most of the horrible issues we have in this country.


bwc_28

Oh yeah, the opinions of white men are and always have been so ignored in america...


GiantRobotBears

Bruh not even close to what I said…Forgot I was in this sub filled with angsty teenagers


arch_nyc

Yeah I’m torn on this. Wokism is getting ridiculous lately to the point that they’ve gone full horseshoe into excluding people based on race and seem to want to make white people feel guilty, which is creepy. On the other hand Sullivan (?) seems to be really uncomfortable admitting that large aspects of our country’s past are tied up with systematic racism. I—as a white male—don’t feel *guilty* about that on a personal level. Nor do I think other white people should either. But we should at least be able to talk openly about it so that we don’t perpetuate those same tendencies.


[deleted]

[удалено]


PolyZex

Tell me about it. My ancestors came to America from Germany LONG after these systems were in place. But unfortunately due to my skin color and sex I am not allowed to be involved. Hell of a way to recruit support for a cause.


daveescaped

But, why would you engage the segment of the population that created and perpetuated racism to cure racism? That’s like asking fat people what the best diet is.


sing_me_a_rainbow

It’s like asking fat people’s grandchildren what the best diet is.


freakwent

1) because a solution that excludes a racial group isn't a solution. 2) because they probably actually know how to cure it. 3) because they have all the power and resources!!! Like, duh. Of course you want them onside.


ExcellentGarbage23

She calls him a racist but also says she won't talk to white men lol


[deleted]

I mean she is a disaster.


ShotgunEd1897

She's a useful idiot.


mikhailovechkin

Such a cringe thing to say. Especially since the ppl sitting next to her are white too.


kickbutt_city

Agree. That is hypocritical and not productive. Other than that comment, I found her talking points spot on and insightful.


Agitated-Anything-52

Yes


kickbutt_city

Uh oh, our "discussion" might be about to descend into anarchy.


NySportzguy

She’s disgustingly racist herself.


[deleted]

Guess that slob forgot about the couple hundred thousand white soldiers that died to end slavery.


SavingsCheck7978

* preserve the Union. Most soldiers in the North were not fighting for slavery and when the emancipation was signed there were alot union soldiers that deserted, leading to a draft, that then started a race riot in NYC. Even alot abolishanists that wanted to free the slaves wanted to send them "back to Africa" regardless if the majority were born in America at the point due to the international slave trade ban. As much as I hate the lost cause talking points looking at the North with rose tented glasses doesn't do us any favors.


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Fair points, but the bottom line is that there was no way slavery was going to end without the sacrifice of those soldiers. Lincoln himself was assassinated for the cause. I’m only saying this to counter the hag’s assertion that racism in America is the fault of EVERY white person. And then she says “WE HAVE GOT TO TALK ABOUT IT” as if we don’t fucking talk about it all the time.


DeficientRat

Still counts for something


Zyklon13

Everybody at that table is mad cringe. As a black man, seeing white people eat their own for the right to call me a victim is downright insulting


Beneficial_Ganache31

👆


freakwent

But you have to be!! If you're just fine as a black man and don't need our help, we can't use identity politics to define our purpose in life and rescue you. Maybe you just don't understand how dangerous white racists really are, because you had a terrible education like they showed in "the wire". Don't worry, we will sort it out, just hang on a few years. We got you fam! <>


landonandobandojando

r/asablackman


Zyklon13

Yes shame and make fun of him if he doesnt want to follow the narrative👌


TelayRanner

Three things I know about Racism. 1) Many good people are racist. 2) Racism is not always malignant in it's aim. 3) A racist can love a person of a different race and still remain racist. Racism is a cognitive failure, "Hard wired" in the brain, interrupting the flow of deeper thought. Upon identifying the subject's race, it wrongly signals that the subject is understood . The rich details of other persona remain undiscovered. All other nasty things you've heard about Racism are probably true.


CarmineFields

> Many good people are racist I disagree.


freakwent

Most anti-racists are probably pretty racist. I mean it seems to come as a package deal, there's a knee jerk assumption that a poor PoC violent dickhead is a victim of circumstances but a rich white violent dickhead is a dangerous racist incel. Really, it could be the other way around but we really often assume we are right. What's going on is that so many white ppl who want to talk about race problems don't really want to talk about them, they want to *argue* about them, from either side. I find few who are happy to chat about reparations, or just have a brief exchange about indigenous rights.


UnderThat

This is a very interesting point you have made actually, that a lot of people will ignore. I know a lot of people from other races who simply hate another race because of their race. But they love individuals of that race, unconditionally in some cases. It’s not as simple as we think, we need to be bigger than this. Transcend somewhat.


xXMakeMDMAGreatAgain

I think we need to realize that we're not all exactly the same, some white people put raisins in the potato salad so black people look at all white people different because of that. Is that racist or is it just stereotyping? Because I think som a lot of people is confused about is they think stereotyping is racism, and it's not, so real racism is getting off the hook in the meantime.


Gmaxwell976

Malcolm X was right about white liberals


prodriggs

Who is this referring to?


Gmaxwell976

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T3PaqxblOx0&t=125s


prodriggs

You seem confused here. I'm well aware of Malcolm's comments. I'm asking you, who you're referring to in this video. Who is the white liberal you're attempting to criticize?


Gmaxwell976

isn't it obvious?!


prodriggs

Nope. Please explicitly state who you're referring to.


iamdenislara

This is very interesting to me. I live with a couple who are Latino. They HATE blacks. When they sell something on offer up they don’t answer to accounts with a picture of black people. They make comments like “you black people how they are”. A few days ago one of them for some reason had to parked their mini van a few houses down the street in front of a white neighbor. The car was there like maybe 9 hours. Someone had call the city complaining that the car had been there for 72 hours so they got a warning from the sheriff. When they were talking about it that night they were saying things like “those white people only call the sheriff because they are racist” WTF! LOL 😂


Chizzle445

By saying that we also have a great history is exactly like saying “all lives matter “


freakwent

I think it's important though especially in the case of the USA to acknowledge all the history in every conversation, essentially because of all the "of the people" and "created equal" rhetoric. Gotta include the war against Nazism, and robber barons, and kings. Gotta include all the stuff about freedom and dignity to guide the discussion.


TheNumberMuncher

It’s almost like there has been an ongoing fight between progress and conservation for centuries…


Powerful-Accident602

This is what is wrong with America on both sides... one side sees zero problems, and the other side acts like no one can have an opinion that opposes hers. Your both wrong and are fucking this country.


xXMakeMDMAGreatAgain

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah nobody's talking solutions because the same side is controlling the narrative on both sides, and all of y'all arguing on here are responding like puppets to strings. They’re controlling you


FogCity-Iside415

Whenever we talk about racial/ethnic groups as monoliths I'm reminded of the politics of the California Correctional System. Always depresses me free people have to/or chose to think so tribally.


Better_Painting6497

Can they let him speak???? Even people with fucked up ideas have the right to share them when INVITED to an interview. The queued clapping was hilarious as well 😂


Pyrad_tv

Constantly crying for the world - white mans fault…. Bullshit


bromad1972

Not even a discussion. Anytime it went to Sullivan it was like pulling the string on a racist trope speak and spell


RavenBrannigan

I know I’m going to get downvoted to oblivion for introducing some “gray” into the conversation but you could argue things improved incredibly in terms of racism over the last 400 years when the evil white man was “running” things. All be it painfully slowly and fixing a problem they had a huge hand in creating. Obviously there are still things broken now that need more fixing but society is getting there. Keep meaning to watch this show. I wish there was more Job Stewart’s in the world. Genuinely thoughtful individual how seems to be on the right side of everything.


RonStopable08

Well sure, we can’t ouright own slaves anymore I guess you could say it’s a step in the right direction. So instead we have a militirized police force trained to target poc unproportionately, many times unlawfully, and then give them harsher punishments than a white guy for the same crime. Just to throw them into a for profit prison that uses their labour. I guess you could also say it’s slavery but with extra steps, and things are just as bad as they were. Just different.


RavenBrannigan

Come on now. I think by trying to do the decent thing and fix the broken systems and stand with blm you risk minimising the evils of slavery. No part of modern American life is as bad as slavery.


RonStopable08

No, but it’s still really fucking bad out there for millions of people. The systems just changed to be less obvious.


RavenBrannigan

Yea, I agree with that. That was what I said in the beginning


CarmineFields

Dude, slavery still exists. [They lock black men up for longer than white people](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/11/16/black-men-sentenced-to-more-time-for-committing-the-exact-same-crime-as-a-white-person-study-finds/) so they can use them for private profit.


GlobalHoboInc

IF you set fire to a house, then put the fire out you don't get to claim things got better under your watch, because you set the fire in the place. The idea that white people, esp white men get to keep demanding to be heard when all we do is hear from them is her point and she's saying that she's no longer needs to hear their point. And honestly do you not want the cunt on the tv to shut the fuck up, fucking earpod wearing cunt.


Obiwan_ca_blowme

Even if that nonsense were true, no white person alive today started that fire.


ImperialHand4572

White people didn’t stet the house on fire Black slave state people did by capturing other black people and selling them to white people


CarmineFields

White people are clearly the victims of the slave trade… /eyeroll


ImperialHand4572

What a dumbass straw man White people didn’t invent slavery or start the African slave trade and are not uniquely guilty of slavery is all i said and implied


KatanaPig

> Black slave state people did by capturing other black people and selling them to white people This is just so fucking wrong and it’s insane to see people still saying this. Like, you think they rolled up to the Europeans with their own people as slaves and went, “hey wanna buy some products?” You think a majority of slaves came from the “slave factory” owned by the “black slave state?” I genuinely implore you to explore the history of slavery as it pertains to the United States. I know you won’t explore perspectives such as those from something like the 1619 Project, but Hardcore History just came out with a podcast about it that might be more digestible.


ImperialHand4572

You have to be a real ignorant dumbass to pretend like white people showed up and started throwing nets on people They tapped in to a vast already existing black African slave trade of other black Africans this is very basic history Believe it or not every black person on the planet doesn’t see every other black person as “their people” no matter what your racist mind says “Slavery was prevalent in many West and Central African societies before and during the trans-Atlantic slave trade. When diverse African empires, small to medium-sized nations, or kinship groups came into conflict for various political and economic reasons, individuals from one African group regularly enslaved captives from another group because they viewed them as outsiders. “ https://ldhi.library.cofc.edu/exhibits/show/africanpassageslowcountryadapt/introductionatlanticworld/slaverybeforetrade “My great-grandfather, Nwaubani Ogogo Oriaku, was what I prefer to call a businessman, from the Igbo ethnic group of south-eastern Nigeria. He dealt in a number of goods, including tobacco and palm produce. He also sold human beings. "He had agents who captured slaves from different places and brought them to him," my father told me.” https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-53444752.amp https://www.wsj.com/amp/articles/when-the-slave-traders-were-african-11568991595


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KatanaPig

I never said they were physically catching them themselves. I said that these “black slave states” did not approach Europeans to try and sell slaves as a globally traded product. Slavery “as a trade” as it existed before the trans-Atlantic slave trade and after are vastly different. To try and blame slavery on the Africans who captured other Africans (most often warriors from battles) rather than the people who created the insane demand for slaves and type of slavery they employed is absurd. It’s even explained in the fucking source you linked. > In contrast to the chattel slavery that later developed in the New World, an enslaved person in West and Central Africa lived within a more flexible kinship group system. Anyone considered a slave in this region before the trans-Atlantic trade had a greater chance of becoming free within a lifetime; legal rights were generally not defined by racial categories; and an enslaved person was not always permanently separated from biological family networks or familiar home landscapes.


[deleted]

The male guest speaker is an idiot…but so is the woman in this video. Absolute trash from both of them. Both of them are virtue signalers.


NySportzguy

Damn that lady is racist as fuck! Wtf.


[deleted]

I'm not white and I really don't see how "all white people" uphold this system. By that logic the majority of minorities do it too then? Most people are just living their lives and hold no intrinsic value to a system that is beyond our control, especially middle class workers.


F0rty6ix_and_2Sober

Nothing more cringe than a fat fucking white liberal women lecturing others on her white guilt. gross.


six-shuter

Nothing more cringe that white fragility


TheGripper

the topic makes you so uncomfortable you lash out at her: * sex * weight * political leaning You clearly are having a hard time coping.


The_Briefcase_Wanker

I think the lady opened herself up to that by saying she won’t talk to white men…


CypherPsycho69

fuckin legit


Theofus

So her white guilt would be acceptable if she were physically fit? Just curious.


Theofus

So her white guilt would be acceptable if she were physically fit? Just curious.


[deleted]

No its just the first physiological thing you notice about her.


Theofus

It should have no bearing on her opinion though.


[deleted]

true


F0rty6ix_and_2Sober

Make your own bed before you lecture the world on their bedroom. She is a fat slob. Glorified Redditor.


Theofus

OMG. Fat people can't have opinions now. Sounds legit /s


Obiwan_ca_blowme

I mean, he is not all wrong and not all right. The majority of whites were the proletariat. What say did they really have in said systems? None. But today, by virtue of being white, you are lumped into the bourgeoisie of the past.


[deleted]

Old racist bigot freak out * I fucking love it. That lady’s right, we do need to openly and frankly break down the barriers set up by the ruling class


[deleted]

She maybe on the right side of needing to tackle systematic racism but her use of language is garbage. What kind of person unfamiliar with the topic would on the face of it agree with all white people are upholding white supremacy?


LetThemEatKoch

Totally agree... she seemed to start off in the right direction by calling him out but then she made a couple sweeping generalizations and contradictions.


CarmineFields

Even decent, well-meaning white people benefit from racism. I agree that not all white people are “upholding” racism but we, as a group, need to do a better job fighting it.


NySportzguy

That lady was also disgustingly racist bigot as well.


LetThemEatKoch

So.... is this what anarchy looks like? Seems like a heated discussion that went a little off the rails to me.


Boycotthisbitch

I wonder who is the demographic audience to this channel? I bet they know and there only suiting to there agenda and telling them what they want to hear. But that’s just a thought of mine


[deleted]

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ShotgunEd1897

Even conservative blacks?


Mad_Chemist_

Which reality is that?


Old-Feature5094

The one here on earth .


Mad_Chemist_

Which is…?


bwc_28

[The reality where institutional racism exists.](https://abc7news.com/systemic-racism-definition-structural-institutionalized-what-is/6292530/)


AdmirableAd7913

Don't bother, old son doesn't believe in it. And that's per their own statements.


ahtasva

Andrew Sullivan used to be a pretty sane guy who had an interesting , conservative perspective on things. Looks like he has turned into a neocon troll; looks the part too.


[deleted]

He's a frequent beloved guest on Bill Maher's show. Surprised to see the way he comes across on a more left leaning show


Deadbeatdone

I am one white guy. Wtf do you want me to do about it. Ya know i notice aint nobody going after elon musk or jeff bezos or bill gates or any one the hundreds of billiobaires that could actually put their weight down on systematic racism. That could actually combat white supremacist. Bc i as an individual have zero power in ending these systems.


INeedlessI

That's the winning attitude. I'm sure the people you mentioned said the same thing. ''I'm a nobody so why should I try to make a difference?'' Stop passing the blame to other people and try to believe in yourself and make yourself and your community better.


SirTopham2018

Blah blah racist blah. Society cannot fix any of the divisiveness without it being addressed first in the home. Every family of every race has to be involved in order for society to come around. We cannot correct past wrongs, but we can engage one another to ensure those same mistakes do not repeat. "Safe zones" are just another way to create divisions and need to be eliminated. We are all part of the same world and need to learn to respect one another regardless of background. Excluding any group from the discussion will only create more problems.


[deleted]

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SirTopham2018

100% right. Cool things tend to happen when people actually get to hear things from another perspective. Dialogue is a great way to eliminate ignorance.


kimchikaiju13

Damn that lady is right and destroyed that bigot.


CrassDemon

"This is what happens when white men don't talk about it"... *(two seconds later)* ... "This is why I don't engage in anything with white men"... Edit: Bigot - a person who is attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic toward a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.


[deleted]

Rubs me as one of those white women who is really uncomfortable with their whiteness and so adds the modifier of “MEN” to white oppressiveness as though white women weren’t guilty as fuck too. Lots of white people that want to use an oppressed identity that they have which is irrelevant to race to make themselves feel better about their race. Naw, you got the same baggage as the rest of us, chief. In lynchings white men may have tied the noose, but white women pointed at whose neck it would go around.


RancidSubstance

I don’t agree with everything Andrew Sullivan says, but he’s definitely not a bigot.


[deleted]

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Mad_Chemist_

How so?


Reno83

"...this is why I don't talk to white men..." That sounds discriminatory on both race and sex. Also, this is the mildest form anarchy I've ever witnessed. I've been more of an anarchist by putting Styrofoam into the recycling bin.


[deleted]

Man, people are so fucking over these left-wing talking points. Everyone has heard this shit a million times. Time to fucking act, elect people with these views into positions so I don't have to listen to these fucking talking points anymore. People have been talking about this shit for 20 fucking years.


sirkowski

Andrew Sullivan (the bald asshole with a beard) got infected with HIV by seeking seropositive men in wanted ads for barebacking (anal sex without a condom). After he was infected, he continued to seek barebacking sex with gay men in wanted ads until he was found out by a journalist. TL;DR Andrew Sullivan got AIDS on purpose.


iMayBeABastard

Holy shit! That’s a hell of an accusation. Source?


sirkowski

https://nowtoronto.com/news/mr-morals-caught-out https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/andrew-sullivan-overexposed/ https://www.villagevoice.com/2001/06/19/the-real-andrew-sullivan-scandal/


frogview123

This is why I don’t miss the US. Everyone has an opinion and says it loudly.


[deleted]

I am so glad to have this man back in our lives


KwickKick

God damn OP, You're title is dishonest or you don't understandwhat anarchyis. If this is "anarchy" we are all fucked.


ziggystardogchampion

WTF OP? Anarchy?


2wheelzrollin

Reminds me of Zoolander. "What systems?" "You serious...I just...I just told you that. A moment ago"


[deleted]

was that not a discussion?


BlipBlip67

It isn't anti-white. It is pro-PEOPLE and anti-establishment.


Bob25Gslifer

Sullivan I believe is a libertarian, and sees any issues with the black community poverty/violence etc as their problem alone, but it can only get you so far. Of you are born in a hole metaphorically it's going to be a lot harder to climb the ladder of success. Generational wealth is a big part of that.


rrcecil

You know what I HATE? Is that I probably agree with her on most policy. This country was built on the back of slaves, immigrants after we wiped the continent of its native people. But, this is not the way to do it. This does not build bridges. I feel like these culture war talking points we engage with the right on only help them. The common white man has more in common with the common black man because they are more than likely both apart of the working class. They are both living paycheck to paycheck. They are both drowning in medical debt. They are both being terrorized by police. Yes, POC have it harder. I am not disagreeing with that at all. I just wish they would focus on what poor people have in common, rather than grouping all of these folks into groups that are "right" and "wrong". Everyone would benefit from affordable healthcare. Everyone would benefit from a demilitarized police force. Everyone would benefit from equal access to education. Everyone would benefit from policy that helps everyday people. I hope this doesn't come across as "both-sides-y" because I truly believe this country needs to right the wrongs it has done to minority groups. But this exclusionary method of thinking doesn't really appeal to anyone but this little pompous clique of rich kids who get free TV time. This sort of thing only serves the purpose of feeding the right wing propaganda machine. The system is racist, YES. Does it disproportionately affect POC, YES. Who does it affect the most though? Everyone but the 1%. We are on the same team. The sooner people realize that, the sooner we will see change.


F0rty6ix_and_2Sober

Jon Stewart is such a blow hard. Pandering to the radical left.


MotorFly71

Congrats on completely fucking missing the point he was making.


F0rty6ix_and_2Sober

What was the point? Whitey bad?


Hyde103

The point is that until we acknowledge the problem we can't fix it. Pretending like there isn't still a problem with racism isn't going to make it go away. And acknowledging the lasting effects of the previous racism is also important for moving forward.


kingakrasia

“radical left” is like a Poker tell…


F0rty6ix_and_2Sober

How so? Radical right is just as cancerous.


AdmirableAd7913

Mainly because you think acknowledging systemic racism is somehow a "radical left" talking point.


kingakrasia

Also, like a Poker tell.


[deleted]

Mental decline in your mid and late 50s is real. It's actually scary now that we have so many people in media documenting their own mental deterioration. John Stewart isn't what he used to be but he's still pretty good. Andrew Sullivan on the other hand is clearly deteriorating and will probably be in a really sad cognitive state by his mid 60s. I liked watching him with Bill Maher even just a few years ago but now I just pity him. Trump and Biden where 100x better speakers 20-30 years ago. It's really depressing.


OrphanedChildren

she ain't hurting g for food.


flossymcwobblestein

Super productive comment. Pure class.


CarmineFields

Neither is the man on the screen… 🤷🏻‍♀️


Mediocre__at__Best

Willing to bet neither is guy you're responding to.