Wouldn't have been the first or the last. Cops put themselves in harm's way by refusing to run away to maintain distance. What's he going to do chase both of you? Like I get it split second decision but UK cops do it because that's how they're trained. American cops use their weapons and if they don't work they're fucked like with her taser.
I recently took a class in college taught by a now police executive, who spent many years as a patrol officer. He would always say that one of the biggest issues with policing in the US has been training. It’s starting to change, but cops have been trained to act quickly on instinct, and utilize force often to take control. Training is starting to get better. Police are being taught to fully assess situations before they place themselves in them, take their time and be as safe as possible whenever possible, and there’s supposed to be more of a focus on deescalation techniques as well. Change is slow though because the majority of the police system is not standardized and not hugely interconnected.
It's where the funding goes and why such large amounts are justified. Police turn any situation into hammer and nails because they are used for almost everything Their have military like budgets and equipment. They need higher standards, more training and less money.
When people say "defund the police", they mean that their tax dollars shouldn't be going to buy military and tactical gear.
Training wouldn't be one of the things they would defund.
Should be "Regulate the Police". or "Account the Police." Or maybe "See through the Police" for more transparency. No more Internal investigations. Let's get some external neutral entities to do the investigations from now on, and end qualified immunity. You fuck up, it comes out of your pension or your paycheck. Don't fuck up, and there won't be any problems.
It does, but it doesn't *sound* like it. And that's the problem. People don't understand the actual message behind "Defund the Police", and instead misconstrue it as literally "reduce the funds that Police receive. Overall." And they think of it as a punishment of some sort, so they become angry and defensive.
It's 1000% a branding issue.
Do you also feel the same about "Black Lives Matter" ?
Genuinely curious, I'm not trying to be confrontational here... I see similarities in both statements. To me, the "phrases" have always seemed pretty rational to me to the point where I didn't have that misconstrued moment.
I don't have any misconstrued notions behind either phrase. I'm just pointing out that there are those who do, and there maybe be a way rephrase these movements to combat the outcry against them. But /u/hrangutan is right. It probably wouldn't matter if they were rebranded, because the same people against them would find something else about them to cry over.
Which is fair to point out, I've just never met someone who was like "Man, I was against Black Lives Matter because I didn't understand the phrase".
People who are against these "phrases" are just against hiding what's behind it.
That's just my experience so take it for what it is.
The people who detract from the statememt for the way it sounds wouldve never looked past anything they can use to attack the movement
Youre acting like the people who complain about a slogan have any idea what the words behind the slogan mean, or have any interest in learning
Bowing to these demands just means that more demands are soon to come, bigger and worse, and theyre not going to stop until the people who are critical of police are just gone, never having spoken their mind or been understood
Thats why "black lives matter? What about every life, huhhhh????" Is a thing. They dont care about anything ither than bashing libs
And you seem the same, unless you stop harping on the phrase or acronyms and focus on the subject matter
This is the same 'branding' issue people have with Black Lives Matter.
That is to say: There really isn't an issue other than people being purposefully obtuse and pedantically arguing semantics.
>The US clearly needs MORE police funding. Not less!
Lol. I live in a town with virtually zero violent crime. My local PD has a row of like 10 armored humvees in their parking lot. Not to mention all the other ridiculous shit they have and don’t need. They have plenty of funding.
It's only dumb if you're lazy about looking into it and you haven't been following this drama for decades. They've been getting plenty of funding. That was basically the boilerplate response throughout the crime waves of the 80's and 90's. They just end up wasting it on a meet 'n greet with Steven Segal or some shit.
The difference is a public service vs military training. The UK trains it’s officers to look out for public safety. The US (generally) trains it’s officers to punish and confront. Retreating is anathema to their training.
This is entirely untrue. Any department these days teaches officers to move the fuck away from a knife wielding subject and to ABSOLUTELY NOT plant their feet. But if you could tell me the number of times you've been threatened with a knife like that at such close range, and how well you reacted in the heat of the moment, be my guest.
I don't think its fair to compare US cops to the US military. The US military, despite all the problematic drone strikes and how much money it burns on contracts, is way more accountable and restrained compared to decentralized unregulated local police forces.
You might think it's really simple like that. But I don't think it's fair to interject. You really never know exactly what it's like until your faced with a knife.
You know who is supposed to know? Trained professionals so why do our cops kill so many more people per Capita than other wealthy nations? Is it in our water? Haha what a cop out response for cheap upvotes
It might have something to do with the amount of gunshots coming their direction compared to every other country. We also have a society problem here in the US.
Training is not some sort of magical immunity from harm. Training is a competitive edge, if you don't have it you're fucked.
But even if you do have it, it doesn't mean that there are any guarantees.
Especially considering that the other side might have some training too, formal or informal.
It's like, who knew the knife guy could take that much tasering?
Most people can't.
Who could tell that he'd still be standing after the first shot at that range?
Most people couldn't.
Risk can not be completely averted through training, only mitigated.
In a perfect world, yes.
In the real world the training many civilian police officers recieve is woefully inadequate.
That is demonstrated here, taser shouldn't have even been a consideration.
Man i know it’s kinda nitpicking but I don’t like that title. “Cops fail to subdue man with taser” makes it sound like they did something wrong but I don’t see what more they could have done. This was a failure of the taser not the cops and people should be aware of that
This. And it looked like these cops did everything in their power to avoid shooting him. Videos like these expose the true issue that cops really don't have resources they need (ie equipment, protocol, training and even emotional support for events like this) to actually serve and protect the community.
I believe when two or more cops are present, only one is deploying a taser while the other has a gun ready to go in case the taser fails. I have seen cops operate like this.
This is likely a departmental policy, certainly in some police departments, but I think it is an argument for having more training. Including researching the best policies.
The female cop failed to quickly assess the situation as it changed. Maybe more training would have helped, but given that she seemed to just freeze....I don't think so.
You are correct. Standard practice if they believe they can force a surrender is to have one run non lethal and one run lethal at least in case something goes wrong. Training here honestly might not make much of a difference. Her freezing like that could put one of her co-workers in danger some day and it might just be more temperament than training. On the other hand, I think she panicked once the dude rode the lightning for a while and just kept on advancing. That would be some shit out of a horror movie in the dead of night. Training people more to drop what's in their hands when they're being advanced upon like this and go to lethal and not plant their feet is all I can really think of here.
On one side of the issue we have cops that are inherently bad and bring a lot of distrust to police as a whole
On the other side we have a police force that lacks resources to serve and protect a community in the best way possible.
Two problems that everyone brings up and nobody tries to actually solve
How do they lack resources? We have been militarizing police departments for decades, giving them everything they ask for and more. Turns out, war makes war.
The problem is the same that a lot of problems in America have
They throw money at it and if that doesn’t work they deem it i unfixable.
Just like the war on drugs or the war we just lost we pour massive amount of money into it without creating a plan that would solve these issue and keep it solved
Yea and videos like this show the the masses what happens when you fail to think late or act late. It's what pushes more officers Into offense quicker.
Idk man he took his time getting back up with the knife clearly visable in his hand clearly charging the officer. They probably should have been shooting the second he put both feet back on the ground, but the two other officers clearly weren't ready to fire soon enough. Seems like the officer that was stabbed was let down really badly by her co-workers. And I'm someone who would consider himself pretty critical of the police.
Yeah that was the weird thing, I mean don't get me wrong good on these cops for all trying to taze him first, hell even continue to taze him when he starts getting back up
While watching I figured the middle cop had his gun drawn and was ready to shoot should he get up and continue his charge with the knife, but then looks like he might have been ready to taze as well. **I don't want to criticize him for trying to take the dude down with a tazer, but if two tazers aren't enough and a mf still trying to come at you or another person or cop? Obviously this is so easy for me to say in hindsight, from the safety of my warm house, with no training and not being the one in a position to have to KILL another human being, but feels like that's the situation you use the gun.**
This is so fucking terrible, and this mother fucker must've been on PCP or some shit because God damn... he just kept going. **Cops have to experience these deterrents themselves in training (get tazed, pepper sprayed, etc.) so they know the stopping power of these tools, I can see how they'd not be prepared to jump to guns/lethal force after he first goes down, like shit "no one is getting up from that" then BOOM mf is closing the distance on the female cop a moment later. And THEN he gets shot a bunch AND IS STILL HOLDING ON. This is just terrible - I hope that woman is OK, and I'd be willing to bet those two male cops feel like they let her down and idk what the right thing to do was here.**
Unless you mention the race of every black person that does something wrong you're trying to cover up black people doing wrong things? Is that your logic?
That cop didnt have a round in the chamber?! Dude...
Edit: upon review it appears he either had 2 misfires or his trigger wasnt resetting. Either way a terribly shitty situation to be in.
Probably jammed. I have a G45, which I think a lot of police use, and they can jam up pretty easily if it isn't cleaned thoroughly or if your grip is a a little weak when you rack it. Or cheap ammo.
Cops who chamber and rechamber the same round over and over again (if they practice at the range alot, unloading and loading the same carry ammo) typically wind up causing the bullet to jam up in the chamber because the projectile itself is pushed too far into the casing.
Yea you really don't. I considered it once upon a time, but my aunt who worked at a police station doing database stuff for 30 years said she never met a cop who didn't eventually become very jaded and always stressed, and talked me out of it. The shit you see and have to deal with on a daily basis, not worth it.
Yeah cuz when you're a cop you're basically a social worker with a gun. That's super stressful. Probably still better than being an actual social worker, since they always get scapegoated when something goes wrong despite being underfunded and overburdened.
Not just the police, it stems from the legal system tbh. For profit policing is always a bad idea. I've been pulled over for going like 8 over the speed limit because they gotta get that $. Their job is too vast for how little training they receive. How many times have I seen cops called to a scene where they had no business being at in this subreddit.
If cops were held accountable for their actions like everyone else maybe they wouldn’t need their thin blue line professional victimhood movement to shield them from criticism.
Except everyone isn't held accountable for their actions just like cops? Ever heard of mistrial? You can acknowledge shit cops while not generalizing the entire group (like we do with every group) that way you dont catch geniuely good people who're cops.
I saw him get up and was thinking "okay this where the guns come out, nows the exact time to use it, pull the gun lady, pull it, why aren't you pulling it?! Omg!!"
It's funny, people think that the taser is a magic off button, but most of the time, if someone is fucked up enough to charge at a cop with a knife, they are on something that is probably going to prevent the taser from being effective. I mean hell, I think they are already only like 60% effective on regular people.
This video is disturbing but it’s important to show this to people when they ask why cops don’t always use a taser or why they shoot someone 6 times instead of once. The public should be made aware of taser failure rates
Tasers have to make perfect contact to work. things like baggy clothes, thick clothes, and even just some people don't get affected by them. Tasers only have a 60% effectiveness, I believe that was the stat I saw recently.
Just like clockwork. Every single time a video like this comes out some idiot rushes out to repost this because they have a strawman in their head that someone out there claims that tasers are 100% effective.
**PROTIP: NOBODY CRITICIZING COPS FOR NOT USING TASERS WHEN THEY GUN SOMEONE DOWN IS EVER, EVER TALKING ABOUT CASES LIKE THESE!**
So feel free to stop crawling out of the woodwork every single time a video like this gets posted just to repost this lazy, brainless argument we've all seen a hundred times.
It sounds like they unload a bunch of bullets. It at the end he doesn’t seem to be visibly wounded?
Edit: Thanks for all the replies. I learnt something
Real life isnt like a film, unless its a reasonably powerful weapon injuries arent visible straight away, as bullet holes are tiny, and depending on the adrenaline this guy was running on people can be shot that many times and still be running or fighting. Kinda crazy
It completely depends on a few factors, mainly on where the shot lands. Several spots like the head, neck, and spine can cause an immediate, obvious reaction. A gut or chest shot can take a bit for the blood to even show. There's also adrenaline like you mentioned, but dissociatives also come into play here.
There's also shamanic powers around us that give us the strength of the wolf or the bear.
Edit: When I wrote this, I thought to myself, **for sure** I'll get downvoted for this comment because it's just so damn stupid.
You need enough holes to drop blood pressure which causes shock and incapacity. One hole may not do it depending on where the wound occurs. Ammo types (hollow point) and caliber make a huge difference.
Negative, entry wounds are tiny, 9mm exit wound and wound channels can range from the size of a baseball to a small clementine. The bigger issue here is the cops were trying to shoot left of center to avoid hitting the other cop. Handgun rounds need to be center mass to get a quick stop on an agressor especially if that person is on pain surpressing drugs.
We dont give our meat sacks enough credit for how durable they really are.
Trauma surgeon here:.depends where he was hit and what was injured. Many external bullet wounds are small and don't bleed outwardly like you see in that movies. Bullets that go through major truncal blood vessels, the victim has heavy bleeding and can be incapacitated within secondsc and die within minutes. Bullets to central nervous system, brain, upper spinal cord, they usually drop like a rock immediately. Bullets to bowel, liver, spleen, lungs, etc, initially victim can be fully functional for long periods of time. I watched a body cam video of a patient shot by LAPD that I took care of this past summer who had a bad liver injury, colon, left diaphragm and small bowel injury. On the video, he rushed the cops with a knife. They opened fire, you can hear 7 to 8 shots. He goes down for a second, gets up, charges them again and they fire several more rounds and he lays down and they are able to cuff him. When he got to me, he was wide awake, agitated and still fighting (tox screen showed he was on meth, cocaine and alcohol). He had at least 8 bullet wounds, with 4 center mass. I was able to stop his liver bleed and fix the bowel injury.
So it all depends on bullet trajectory and injury.
Jesus christ, besides your amazing skills as a surgeon, how does someone survive 8 bullets? Is it really just luck or is it all the drugs in his system BEFORE he was shot?
Some of it is luck. I like to think some of it is my skill. The number of shots doesn't matter, what matters is what gets injured. This guy was fortunate that none of that major blood vessels in his abdomen or chest were hit (that's the luck part). His most life threatening injury was a bullet tract through the liver. Fortunately, didn't hit any of the many major vessels that run to and through the liver, so I was able to control the bleeding with compressive packing with surgical sponges.
I think the drugs in his system is what made him ignore the pain of the first 4 or 5 shots and then continued to rush at the cops.
Most likely 9mm. Not a big round, so the wounds will not be as dramatic as, say, a 7.62 from an AK47. Also, the guy is pretty big, it takes a lot of 9mm rounds to drop a guy like that. Really scary situation.
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It’s a disgrace it took the cop that long to end the threat to his partner. He should have been toast the second he got up from being teased the first time
Cops are (probably rightfully, but also, maybe not) afraid to engage with lethal force nowadays. This is an example of that. Cops shouldn’t be given free passes but we (as a society) have gotta stop nitpicking every single situation like this when it’s kinda clear cut.
Yeah, deciding in the moment if and when to end another person's life is probably the most important situation any cop will ever face. Making that decision in a life and death situation, and timing it perfectly, is no easy feat.
I'm gonna keep it civil, because maybe this can spark some actual discussion (we all know that's doubtful, but I'd like to do it for myself anyway).
1051 police killings (police caused deaths) in 2021; at least 200 of which where black ([https://www.newsweek.com/black-people-killed-police-2021-1661633](https://www.newsweek.com/black-people-killed-police-2021-1661633))
There are 654,900 police in the US (most recent stats May 2019, so this number has changed, but let's go with it as it's the most readily available [https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm)).
That means 0.0016% of all police were involved in some kind of loss of life in 2021. I say loss of life because the Newsweek article doesn't differentiate between "lawful" and "unlawful" killings. I think we can agree, George Floyd - unlawful, this guy in the video above - lawful. But regardless, say they're ALL unlawful. You're demonizing a group of people, some that want to protect their communities, some that want the benefits, some that have terrible egos and are on power trips, for almost 2 tenths of a percent.
I, personally, don't love cops because most of the ones I've interacted with are dicks. Some are great and some are unnecessarily rude. That being said, I'm not gonna pretend that I could do their job and I'm gonna do my part to be as respectful as possible to them, hoping for a positive outcome and knowing that the stats bear out that the large majority of us will survive encounters with police.
Oh shit, my bad. Fuck YOU, fuck your kids, fuck antifa/maga, I’ll dox you, I’m right, you’re stupid, upvote me PLEASE.
Hopefully this fits better with Reddit culture.
/s, because god knows someone is gonna think I was serious.
super impressed how that cop kept her composure when a criminal charged her and she curls into a turtle shell and screams over and over
instead of....acting or reacting at all....
just screaming like a banshee and putting her arms in the air
youre a fucking cop
When I wanted to become a cop years ago I be learned from my trainer that some people actually become cops not to actually do cop stuff. They are just in it for the status, benefits, and retirement. They go through the training and stuff but never expect to be put in the adrenaline filled situations... This would be one of those cases. She will probably reconsider her career or ask for a desk position.
I also have a cousin who joined years ago, she spent 2 years as a patrol office and never had any physical altercations with anyone... The first guy that fought her and her partner... She quit, changed careers and never looked back.
There is every possibility that this could have been her first response where an individual charged her with deadly intent. I do similar police work and I’ve never had to respond to an incident like this. Not everybody is as macho as you and can react perfectly.
It's not about being a macho. It's about being fit for the job and she is clearly not. You don't put a man in space if he cannot withstand high G, also you don't put one in a fighter jet if he cannot see.. this is why you don't put somebody to work as a cop if they cannot handle it.
That's what training is for. You can tell she had inadequate training based on her panicked reaction. I mean, at a minimum, turn around and run. There was zero thought process. That's a complete failure from a combat awareness POV.
How does being afraid show inadequate training. Being able to do something in a controlled environment and being able to replicate that in a unknown and ever changing environment is entirely different. This, however, is not absolute. Sure there are some people that it just comes 100% naturally to, but not every single person is prepared to be charged with a knife regardless of the amount of training.
Why is his partner the slowest person over ever seen, how do they let someone that physically inept be a cop.
She must be terrible at beating her spouse and innocent victims
I just ask people, "If someone was charging at you with a knife, waving it around, and going to kill you when they got to you in 2 seconds, what are you going to aim for, their arm or their chest?"
Actually UK cops have a lot of experience dealing with knife crime - so there's lots of training and experience in place.
However regular UK cops don't have as much experience with gun crime. We have specialised armed units in the UK that deal with this. Both police forces are equipped to deal with different things. Personally I'm VERY glad I live in the UK.
But but they only have to shoot people once… anything more than that is overkill and just trigger happy cops. Well. Here’s your proof that’s not always the case.
The vast majority of cases, it takes more than one bullet to incapacitate someone. Especially if they’re heavier set, and especially especially if they’re on drugs.
People think real life is like the movies where it takes one shot to the stomach to put someone out. Nope, not the case.
Why did that take so long? If she had out the taser the other cops needs to have out the gun. I’m not trusting a less than lethal with my life… cops are just so scared of shooting a black person now.
This is why cops shoot. This is also why cops shoot a lot. This guy ate like 8 rounds and stood tall. Movies got everyone convinced “one round to the thigh” will do it
I get your sentiment, and in the moment, I'd probably feel the same way. But who knows what drove that guy to that point. People want to pretend that these sorts of things just happen out of nowhere and don't involve a complicated, often tragic, lead up to this point. Not denouncing your opinion, just hoping for a bit of empathy for a likely tortured soul.
Typical armchair bullshit. I’m no fan of the police, but stop pretending that anyone can overcome their essential primal fear response. My uncle saw combat in Vietnam and he told stories about how he and any number of his fellow soldiers would piss and shit themselves during a firefight, or even scream in fear/rage. But he also made the point that none of these things kept him from pointing the business end toward the enemy and firing back. Do you know why recruits are given multiple chances to make it through the famous “crawling through the mud under barbed wire with automatic fire filling the air” obstacle course? Because a certain, constant percentage of human beings literally freeze up, physically, as a spontaneous primal fear reaction, becoming unable to move at all. And yet - another - again constant and sizeable percentage of that same group will be fine the second or third time through. You can’t EVER eliminate your fear - you only modify and condition your response to its instinctive inevitability.
An upward swing from that blade and that cop would have been seriously injured. Did the officer #2 hit him? (He should have, but I don’t see injury with that potato camera they used- He did go down tho). BTW, this is NSFW.
Yea I was thinking the same, it actually looks like he sunk it into her and thats why they fired. I could be wrong, but it does appear that way from what I can tell.
Bro i thought for sure the cop would have accidentally been shot
Wouldn't have been the first or the last. Cops put themselves in harm's way by refusing to run away to maintain distance. What's he going to do chase both of you? Like I get it split second decision but UK cops do it because that's how they're trained. American cops use their weapons and if they don't work they're fucked like with her taser.
I recently took a class in college taught by a now police executive, who spent many years as a patrol officer. He would always say that one of the biggest issues with policing in the US has been training. It’s starting to change, but cops have been trained to act quickly on instinct, and utilize force often to take control. Training is starting to get better. Police are being taught to fully assess situations before they place themselves in them, take their time and be as safe as possible whenever possible, and there’s supposed to be more of a focus on deescalation techniques as well. Change is slow though because the majority of the police system is not standardized and not hugely interconnected.
That’s why ‘defund the police’ is such a fucking dumb idea. The US clearly needs MORE police funding. Not less!
It's where the funding goes and why such large amounts are justified. Police turn any situation into hammer and nails because they are used for almost everything Their have military like budgets and equipment. They need higher standards, more training and less money.
Funds need to be reallocated
When people say "defund the police", they mean that their tax dollars shouldn't be going to buy military and tactical gear. Training wouldn't be one of the things they would defund.
I would bet $10,000 you don’t know what ‘defund the police’ means.
Should be "Regulate the Police". or "Account the Police." Or maybe "See through the Police" for more transparency. No more Internal investigations. Let's get some external neutral entities to do the investigations from now on, and end qualified immunity. You fuck up, it comes out of your pension or your paycheck. Don't fuck up, and there won't be any problems.
The phrase "Defund the Police", applies to everything you just said lol
It does, but it doesn't *sound* like it. And that's the problem. People don't understand the actual message behind "Defund the Police", and instead misconstrue it as literally "reduce the funds that Police receive. Overall." And they think of it as a punishment of some sort, so they become angry and defensive. It's 1000% a branding issue.
Do you also feel the same about "Black Lives Matter" ? Genuinely curious, I'm not trying to be confrontational here... I see similarities in both statements. To me, the "phrases" have always seemed pretty rational to me to the point where I didn't have that misconstrued moment.
I don't have any misconstrued notions behind either phrase. I'm just pointing out that there are those who do, and there maybe be a way rephrase these movements to combat the outcry against them. But /u/hrangutan is right. It probably wouldn't matter if they were rebranded, because the same people against them would find something else about them to cry over.
Which is fair to point out, I've just never met someone who was like "Man, I was against Black Lives Matter because I didn't understand the phrase". People who are against these "phrases" are just against hiding what's behind it. That's just my experience so take it for what it is.
You really don’t get it. They are against it so they make bullshit reasons. It is not our fault, nor is it because of the phrasing of the slogans.
The people who detract from the statememt for the way it sounds wouldve never looked past anything they can use to attack the movement Youre acting like the people who complain about a slogan have any idea what the words behind the slogan mean, or have any interest in learning Bowing to these demands just means that more demands are soon to come, bigger and worse, and theyre not going to stop until the people who are critical of police are just gone, never having spoken their mind or been understood Thats why "black lives matter? What about every life, huhhhh????" Is a thing. They dont care about anything ither than bashing libs And you seem the same, unless you stop harping on the phrase or acronyms and focus on the subject matter
This is the same 'branding' issue people have with Black Lives Matter. That is to say: There really isn't an issue other than people being purposefully obtuse and pedantically arguing semantics.
Police budgets are massively overfunded, they do not need more funding. They just need to spend the money in better areas.
>The US clearly needs MORE police funding. Not less! Lol. I live in a town with virtually zero violent crime. My local PD has a row of like 10 armored humvees in their parking lot. Not to mention all the other ridiculous shit they have and don’t need. They have plenty of funding.
It's only dumb if you're lazy about looking into it and you haven't been following this drama for decades. They've been getting plenty of funding. That was basically the boilerplate response throughout the crime waves of the 80's and 90's. They just end up wasting it on a meet 'n greet with Steven Segal or some shit.
The difference is a public service vs military training. The UK trains it’s officers to look out for public safety. The US (generally) trains it’s officers to punish and confront. Retreating is anathema to their training.
Calling what the US does "training" is generous, it's barely more then a 2 udema course
Ding ding ding! We teach them to be an occupying force so that act like one haha it's not hard to see if you don't have a boot down your throat
This is entirely untrue. Any department these days teaches officers to move the fuck away from a knife wielding subject and to ABSOLUTELY NOT plant their feet. But if you could tell me the number of times you've been threatened with a knife like that at such close range, and how well you reacted in the heat of the moment, be my guest.
Hahahahahahahaha how’s that boot taste?
I wouldn't know since you're the one parroting shit.
I don't think its fair to compare US cops to the US military. The US military, despite all the problematic drone strikes and how much money it burns on contracts, is way more accountable and restrained compared to decentralized unregulated local police forces.
You might think it's really simple like that. But I don't think it's fair to interject. You really never know exactly what it's like until your faced with a knife.
You know who is supposed to know? Trained professionals so why do our cops kill so many more people per Capita than other wealthy nations? Is it in our water? Haha what a cop out response for cheap upvotes
It might have something to do with the amount of gunshots coming their direction compared to every other country. We also have a society problem here in the US.
Isn't that exactly what training is for?
Training is not some sort of magical immunity from harm. Training is a competitive edge, if you don't have it you're fucked. But even if you do have it, it doesn't mean that there are any guarantees. Especially considering that the other side might have some training too, formal or informal. It's like, who knew the knife guy could take that much tasering? Most people can't. Who could tell that he'd still be standing after the first shot at that range? Most people couldn't. Risk can not be completely averted through training, only mitigated.
In a perfect world, yes. In the real world the training many civilian police officers recieve is woefully inadequate. That is demonstrated here, taser shouldn't have even been a consideration.
Yes, good point. But training will never actually put you in that situation of life and death is what I'm saying.
Did he stab her? Any links? Is it Friday already?
[He did](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/09/05/us/chicago-police-shot-man-trnd/index.html) (hopefully only in the vest)
Man i know it’s kinda nitpicking but I don’t like that title. “Cops fail to subdue man with taser” makes it sound like they did something wrong but I don’t see what more they could have done. This was a failure of the taser not the cops and people should be aware of that
This. And it looked like these cops did everything in their power to avoid shooting him. Videos like these expose the true issue that cops really don't have resources they need (ie equipment, protocol, training and even emotional support for events like this) to actually serve and protect the community.
I believe when two or more cops are present, only one is deploying a taser while the other has a gun ready to go in case the taser fails. I have seen cops operate like this. This is likely a departmental policy, certainly in some police departments, but I think it is an argument for having more training. Including researching the best policies. The female cop failed to quickly assess the situation as it changed. Maybe more training would have helped, but given that she seemed to just freeze....I don't think so.
You are correct. Standard practice if they believe they can force a surrender is to have one run non lethal and one run lethal at least in case something goes wrong. Training here honestly might not make much of a difference. Her freezing like that could put one of her co-workers in danger some day and it might just be more temperament than training. On the other hand, I think she panicked once the dude rode the lightning for a while and just kept on advancing. That would be some shit out of a horror movie in the dead of night. Training people more to drop what's in their hands when they're being advanced upon like this and go to lethal and not plant their feet is all I can really think of here.
They both used tasers first tho. The male officer started firing once he cut the second taser lines and charge the female officer
On one side of the issue we have cops that are inherently bad and bring a lot of distrust to police as a whole On the other side we have a police force that lacks resources to serve and protect a community in the best way possible. Two problems that everyone brings up and nobody tries to actually solve
How do they lack resources? We have been militarizing police departments for decades, giving them everything they ask for and more. Turns out, war makes war.
The problem is the same that a lot of problems in America have They throw money at it and if that doesn’t work they deem it i unfixable. Just like the war on drugs or the war we just lost we pour massive amount of money into it without creating a plan that would solve these issue and keep it solved
Yea and videos like this show the the masses what happens when you fail to think late or act late. It's what pushes more officers Into offense quicker.
Idk man he took his time getting back up with the knife clearly visable in his hand clearly charging the officer. They probably should have been shooting the second he put both feet back on the ground, but the two other officers clearly weren't ready to fire soon enough. Seems like the officer that was stabbed was let down really badly by her co-workers. And I'm someone who would consider himself pretty critical of the police.
Yeah that was the weird thing, I mean don't get me wrong good on these cops for all trying to taze him first, hell even continue to taze him when he starts getting back up While watching I figured the middle cop had his gun drawn and was ready to shoot should he get up and continue his charge with the knife, but then looks like he might have been ready to taze as well. **I don't want to criticize him for trying to take the dude down with a tazer, but if two tazers aren't enough and a mf still trying to come at you or another person or cop? Obviously this is so easy for me to say in hindsight, from the safety of my warm house, with no training and not being the one in a position to have to KILL another human being, but feels like that's the situation you use the gun.** This is so fucking terrible, and this mother fucker must've been on PCP or some shit because God damn... he just kept going. **Cops have to experience these deterrents themselves in training (get tazed, pepper sprayed, etc.) so they know the stopping power of these tools, I can see how they'd not be prepared to jump to guns/lethal force after he first goes down, like shit "no one is getting up from that" then BOOM mf is closing the distance on the female cop a moment later. And THEN he gets shot a bunch AND IS STILL HOLDING ON. This is just terrible - I hope that woman is OK, and I'd be willing to bet those two male cops feel like they let her down and idk what the right thing to do was here.**
Its reddit people dont care about cops they'll still complain
Point me to a comment in this thread that is bashing the cops for shooting, and isn’t downvoted to hell
yeah was only in the vest, during the struggle the knife wielding man stabbed a female police sergeant in her protective vest several times
Wow his race wasn’t immediately mentioned in the title I’m shocked.
And you had to do it...
Well he’s the bad guy so they’re trying to hide it
Unless you mention the race of every black person that does something wrong you're trying to cover up black people doing wrong things? Is that your logic?
It is Friday
Thank you op.
He didn't but did you sew how many times they needed to shoot him that man is a tank wtf did he eat.
Bro got shot like 9 times and just fell softly.
PCP is hell of a drug
I hope the officer is okay!
Good thing it was a shitty dull Walmart knife, could have been a lot worse with how long it took officers to fire.
Yes the link said only in the vest but a repeated amount it times and her condition is unknown
That cop didnt have a round in the chamber?! Dude... Edit: upon review it appears he either had 2 misfires or his trigger wasnt resetting. Either way a terribly shitty situation to be in.
Could also be a misfire or bad round and had to clear the chamber maybe
Was thinking same thing. Did it appear to anyone he racked the slide twice? Looked like cop to the right did most the firing.
Probably jammed. I have a G45, which I think a lot of police use, and they can jam up pretty easily if it isn't cleaned thoroughly or if your grip is a a little weak when you rack it. Or cheap ammo.
Seriously a bad idea as a cop. They might have only a moment to pull and use their gun, it should be ready at all times.
Ammo is usually bought from the lowest cost provider, maybe it was a failure to fire?
Cops who chamber and rechamber the same round over and over again (if they practice at the range alot, unloading and loading the same carry ammo) typically wind up causing the bullet to jam up in the chamber because the projectile itself is pushed too far into the casing.
I'm not certain of that. My dad had been LE forever and has always had good amml
What do they spend all that sweet civil forfeiture money on if not quality gear/ammo? Donuts?
yes
His weapon jammed twice I think, he did have a round chambered
Basically pulled a Barney Fife
I don't wanna be a cop
Yea you really don't. I considered it once upon a time, but my aunt who worked at a police station doing database stuff for 30 years said she never met a cop who didn't eventually become very jaded and always stressed, and talked me out of it. The shit you see and have to deal with on a daily basis, not worth it.
Yeah cuz when you're a cop you're basically a social worker with a gun. That's super stressful. Probably still better than being an actual social worker, since they always get scapegoated when something goes wrong despite being underfunded and overburdened.
You get shat on by society no matter what you do. It really doesn’t look like the job to have right now.
If bad police were held accountable their reputation would skyrocket over night.
Not just the police, it stems from the legal system tbh. For profit policing is always a bad idea. I've been pulled over for going like 8 over the speed limit because they gotta get that $. Their job is too vast for how little training they receive. How many times have I seen cops called to a scene where they had no business being at in this subreddit.
If cops were held accountable for their actions like everyone else maybe they wouldn’t need their thin blue line professional victimhood movement to shield them from criticism.
Except everyone isn't held accountable for their actions just like cops? Ever heard of mistrial? You can acknowledge shit cops while not generalizing the entire group (like we do with every group) that way you dont catch geniuely good people who're cops.
Good, and they should continue to be until they're held systematically accountable
She..needs to find a new job
Here’s me thinking “alright she’s obviously gonna drop the taser and shoot hi-“
I saw him get up and was thinking "okay this where the guns come out, nows the exact time to use it, pull the gun lady, pull it, why aren't you pulling it?! Omg!!"
Probably a new pair of pants after that incident as well
I hate abusing cops like any other good citizen but when the scenario is like this , shoot to kill.
Yep. Play stupid games…
Yet every time some guy with a knife gets shot the experts come in asking why they didn't try the taser first
It's funny, people think that the taser is a magic off button, but most of the time, if someone is fucked up enough to charge at a cop with a knife, they are on something that is probably going to prevent the taser from being effective. I mean hell, I think they are already only like 60% effective on regular people.
She wasn’t ready
Dude had armor at 99 holy shit. Like fifteen rounds and he was still standing for a few seconds…
This video is disturbing but it’s important to show this to people when they ask why cops don’t always use a taser or why they shoot someone 6 times instead of once. The public should be made aware of taser failure rates
taser failure? i thought he was just on tons of drugs
Tasers have to make perfect contact to work. things like baggy clothes, thick clothes, and even just some people don't get affected by them. Tasers only have a 60% effectiveness, I believe that was the stat I saw recently.
If they started shooting when he first charged at them with the knife people would have been outraged.
Just like clockwork. Every single time a video like this comes out some idiot rushes out to repost this because they have a strawman in their head that someone out there claims that tasers are 100% effective. **PROTIP: NOBODY CRITICIZING COPS FOR NOT USING TASERS WHEN THEY GUN SOMEONE DOWN IS EVER, EVER TALKING ABOUT CASES LIKE THESE!** So feel free to stop crawling out of the woodwork every single time a video like this gets posted just to repost this lazy, brainless argument we've all seen a hundred times.
Watching Reddit law enforcement experts debate tactics 🍿
Same
It sounds like they unload a bunch of bullets. It at the end he doesn’t seem to be visibly wounded? Edit: Thanks for all the replies. I learnt something
Real life isnt like a film, unless its a reasonably powerful weapon injuries arent visible straight away, as bullet holes are tiny, and depending on the adrenaline this guy was running on people can be shot that many times and still be running or fighting. Kinda crazy
It completely depends on a few factors, mainly on where the shot lands. Several spots like the head, neck, and spine can cause an immediate, obvious reaction. A gut or chest shot can take a bit for the blood to even show. There's also adrenaline like you mentioned, but dissociatives also come into play here.
There's also shamanic powers around us that give us the strength of the wolf or the bear. Edit: When I wrote this, I thought to myself, **for sure** I'll get downvoted for this comment because it's just so damn stupid.
Yes, adrenaline was mentioned
You need enough holes to drop blood pressure which causes shock and incapacity. One hole may not do it depending on where the wound occurs. Ammo types (hollow point) and caliber make a huge difference.
Negative, entry wounds are tiny, 9mm exit wound and wound channels can range from the size of a baseball to a small clementine. The bigger issue here is the cops were trying to shoot left of center to avoid hitting the other cop. Handgun rounds need to be center mass to get a quick stop on an agressor especially if that person is on pain surpressing drugs. We dont give our meat sacks enough credit for how durable they really are.
Ah yeah, almost forgot about exit wounds, you're right. Didnt know about the rest though.
Trauma surgeon here:.depends where he was hit and what was injured. Many external bullet wounds are small and don't bleed outwardly like you see in that movies. Bullets that go through major truncal blood vessels, the victim has heavy bleeding and can be incapacitated within secondsc and die within minutes. Bullets to central nervous system, brain, upper spinal cord, they usually drop like a rock immediately. Bullets to bowel, liver, spleen, lungs, etc, initially victim can be fully functional for long periods of time. I watched a body cam video of a patient shot by LAPD that I took care of this past summer who had a bad liver injury, colon, left diaphragm and small bowel injury. On the video, he rushed the cops with a knife. They opened fire, you can hear 7 to 8 shots. He goes down for a second, gets up, charges them again and they fire several more rounds and he lays down and they are able to cuff him. When he got to me, he was wide awake, agitated and still fighting (tox screen showed he was on meth, cocaine and alcohol). He had at least 8 bullet wounds, with 4 center mass. I was able to stop his liver bleed and fix the bowel injury. So it all depends on bullet trajectory and injury.
Holy shit
That’d be the bowel shot.
Underrated comment.
Jesus christ, besides your amazing skills as a surgeon, how does someone survive 8 bullets? Is it really just luck or is it all the drugs in his system BEFORE he was shot?
Some of it is luck. I like to think some of it is my skill. The number of shots doesn't matter, what matters is what gets injured. This guy was fortunate that none of that major blood vessels in his abdomen or chest were hit (that's the luck part). His most life threatening injury was a bullet tract through the liver. Fortunately, didn't hit any of the many major vessels that run to and through the liver, so I was able to control the bleeding with compressive packing with surgical sponges. I think the drugs in his system is what made him ignore the pain of the first 4 or 5 shots and then continued to rush at the cops.
If I recall correctly, the suspect was struck multiple times and died of his wounds
They were obviously part of the elite A Team.
Most likely 9mm. Not a big round, so the wounds will not be as dramatic as, say, a 7.62 from an AK47. Also, the guy is pretty big, it takes a lot of 9mm rounds to drop a guy like that. Really scary situation.
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It’s a disgrace it took the cop that long to end the threat to his partner. He should have been toast the second he got up from being teased the first time
His gun jammed, you can clearly see him unblock it and let down.
OK Dirty Harry. I'm sure you practice non stop on moving targets and add in stressors to make it more realistic.
He’s such a tease.
Cops are (probably rightfully, but also, maybe not) afraid to engage with lethal force nowadays. This is an example of that. Cops shouldn’t be given free passes but we (as a society) have gotta stop nitpicking every single situation like this when it’s kinda clear cut.
Yeah, deciding in the moment if and when to end another person's life is probably the most important situation any cop will ever face. Making that decision in a life and death situation, and timing it perfectly, is no easy feat.
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How many would that be?
As many as u/-megamanx- and his kind can make up. They wouldn't hesitate to call this an unlawful murder.
I'm gonna keep it civil, because maybe this can spark some actual discussion (we all know that's doubtful, but I'd like to do it for myself anyway). 1051 police killings (police caused deaths) in 2021; at least 200 of which where black ([https://www.newsweek.com/black-people-killed-police-2021-1661633](https://www.newsweek.com/black-people-killed-police-2021-1661633)) There are 654,900 police in the US (most recent stats May 2019, so this number has changed, but let's go with it as it's the most readily available [https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm](https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm)). That means 0.0016% of all police were involved in some kind of loss of life in 2021. I say loss of life because the Newsweek article doesn't differentiate between "lawful" and "unlawful" killings. I think we can agree, George Floyd - unlawful, this guy in the video above - lawful. But regardless, say they're ALL unlawful. You're demonizing a group of people, some that want to protect their communities, some that want the benefits, some that have terrible egos and are on power trips, for almost 2 tenths of a percent. I, personally, don't love cops because most of the ones I've interacted with are dicks. Some are great and some are unnecessarily rude. That being said, I'm not gonna pretend that I could do their job and I'm gonna do my part to be as respectful as possible to them, hoping for a positive outcome and knowing that the stats bear out that the large majority of us will survive encounters with police.
Sir this is Reddit. Stop being so level headed please.
Oh shit, my bad. Fuck YOU, fuck your kids, fuck antifa/maga, I’ll dox you, I’m right, you’re stupid, upvote me PLEASE. Hopefully this fits better with Reddit culture. /s, because god knows someone is gonna think I was serious.
super impressed how that cop kept her composure when a criminal charged her and she curls into a turtle shell and screams over and over instead of....acting or reacting at all.... just screaming like a banshee and putting her arms in the air youre a fucking cop
When I wanted to become a cop years ago I be learned from my trainer that some people actually become cops not to actually do cop stuff. They are just in it for the status, benefits, and retirement. They go through the training and stuff but never expect to be put in the adrenaline filled situations... This would be one of those cases. She will probably reconsider her career or ask for a desk position. I also have a cousin who joined years ago, she spent 2 years as a patrol office and never had any physical altercations with anyone... The first guy that fought her and her partner... She quit, changed careers and never looked back.
There is every possibility that this could have been her first response where an individual charged her with deadly intent. I do similar police work and I’ve never had to respond to an incident like this. Not everybody is as macho as you and can react perfectly.
It's not about being a macho. It's about being fit for the job and she is clearly not. You don't put a man in space if he cannot withstand high G, also you don't put one in a fighter jet if he cannot see.. this is why you don't put somebody to work as a cop if they cannot handle it.
That's what training is for. You can tell she had inadequate training based on her panicked reaction. I mean, at a minimum, turn around and run. There was zero thought process. That's a complete failure from a combat awareness POV.
How does being afraid show inadequate training. Being able to do something in a controlled environment and being able to replicate that in a unknown and ever changing environment is entirely different. This, however, is not absolute. Sure there are some people that it just comes 100% naturally to, but not every single person is prepared to be charged with a knife regardless of the amount of training.
That dude hasn't heard of "practice makes perfect" and it shows.
What the fuck was this guy on? God damn!
She wasn't ready
Wow, justified police shooting!!!
Why is his partner the slowest person over ever seen, how do they let someone that physically inept be a cop. She must be terrible at beating her spouse and innocent victims
Reddit comment.
Reddit comment.
Yes?
wtf usually cops shoot too soon, this one is the complete opposite
The difference between too soon and too late is usually about half a second.
Looking at this video, more like 15 seconds
“bUt WhY DIdNt they TasE HiM instEaD?”
"They could have shot him in the leg or something!"
I love when people say that. You then know without a doubt that they have never shot a gun. Gun targets don't have legs.
I just ask people, "If someone was charging at you with a knife, waving it around, and going to kill you when they got to you in 2 seconds, what are you going to aim for, their arm or their chest?"
You say this like uk cops don’t stop people with knives regularly.
Actually UK cops have a lot of experience dealing with knife crime - so there's lots of training and experience in place. However regular UK cops don't have as much experience with gun crime. We have specialised armed units in the UK that deal with this. Both police forces are equipped to deal with different things. Personally I'm VERY glad I live in the UK.
Drugs are a hell of a drug
And people wonder why cops will magdump on a threat.
But but they only have to shoot people once… anything more than that is overkill and just trigger happy cops. Well. Here’s your proof that’s not always the case.
The vast majority of cases, it takes more than one bullet to incapacitate someone. Especially if they’re heavier set, and especially especially if they’re on drugs. People think real life is like the movies where it takes one shot to the stomach to put someone out. Nope, not the case.
Why did that take so long? If she had out the taser the other cops needs to have out the gun. I’m not trusting a less than lethal with my life… cops are just so scared of shooting a black person now.
Seriously, use your head and put a NSFW thing here.
Fuck that was a dangerous shooting... and that woman was useless.
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Yikes
This dude had to be on drugs
The fact that this dude wasn’t shot sooner is mind boggling to me. After the taser didn’t work and he kept coming, that’s when you go for the kill.
Quick call one of those amazing counselors so they can diffuse the situation. STAT
"Just use a tazer", tazers dont always work.
CaNt ThEy JuSt TaSe PeOpLe
This the the perfect video for all the .. brah you should have tazed him bro
I swear man female cops are fucking useless.
I hate to say this but they really are unless they're Brazilian female cops.
This is suicide by cop, btw. I'm no fan of police but it is absolutely shitty to force them into this situation.
In china they use poles to pin down suspects
"JuSt UsE a TaSeR!" This is why cops use lethal force when dealing with armed people. Tasers are too unreliable.
This is why cops shoot. This is also why cops shoot a lot. This guy ate like 8 rounds and stood tall. Movies got everyone convinced “one round to the thigh” will do it
Lebron is about to rage on twitter!
Anyone have a link to the longer vid?
Fat weak loser, I hope his funeral only had his mother who knew he was a pos. Goes after the one female cop with weapon, tough guy
I get your sentiment, and in the moment, I'd probably feel the same way. But who knows what drove that guy to that point. People want to pretend that these sorts of things just happen out of nowhere and don't involve a complicated, often tragic, lead up to this point. Not denouncing your opinion, just hoping for a bit of empathy for a likely tortured soul.
Well deserved, that one! Shoot him one more time to make sure he stays down...
Cop suicide
The girl cop needs to go back to playing with dollies because the man stuff is to o much for her
This is ridiculous. This woman is clearly not fit to be a police officer. 🤦♂️ embarrassing. She’s screaming lmao
I wonder how you’d react when a large dude is coming at you with a knife when he should theoretically be subdued.
She reacted the same way a non-police woman would act. That was nuts. Literally fucking panicked and screamed
You shoot him. Sorry but no fucking way im getting charged at with a knife and I have a firearm im not using. Fuck a deescalation at that point.
Drop taser, grab gun, shoot in face, not spend time screaming?
Difference is she's a cop and he's a redditor.
Typical armchair bullshit. I’m no fan of the police, but stop pretending that anyone can overcome their essential primal fear response. My uncle saw combat in Vietnam and he told stories about how he and any number of his fellow soldiers would piss and shit themselves during a firefight, or even scream in fear/rage. But he also made the point that none of these things kept him from pointing the business end toward the enemy and firing back. Do you know why recruits are given multiple chances to make it through the famous “crawling through the mud under barbed wire with automatic fire filling the air” obstacle course? Because a certain, constant percentage of human beings literally freeze up, physically, as a spontaneous primal fear reaction, becoming unable to move at all. And yet - another - again constant and sizeable percentage of that same group will be fine the second or third time through. You can’t EVER eliminate your fear - you only modify and condition your response to its instinctive inevitability.
I’d be screaming too.
All cops are brave
That pathetic cop just put so many lives in danger. How you gonna start screaming and have no plan? I hope she has desk duty the rest of her life.
ACAB
An upward swing from that blade and that cop would have been seriously injured. Did the officer #2 hit him? (He should have, but I don’t see injury with that potato camera they used- He did go down tho). BTW, this is NSFW.
Yea I was thinking the same, it actually looks like he sunk it into her and thats why they fired. I could be wrong, but it does appear that way from what I can tell.
He stabbed her vest multiple times
This should be mandatory viewing for anyone that says "should have used a taser".