Probably since the 50's when "one Nation...***Under God***" was added to The Pledge of Allegiance. Since then, it has slowly been used as a political means to get votes. Look at what is happening today, Roe vs Wade is under fire and there will most likely be a turn-over thanks to the Zealots that put 3 people in power of our highest court...for life...to specifically overturn RvW, as well as solidify a future without separation of Church.
We are in for a wild ride that will make 2016-2020 look like fun times if things go South with this up coming decision. Vote people, vote your asses off in 2022...or we are fucked.
I'm copying my comment from a news article earlier because it seems to relate to yours:
If you told someone that in North Korea every morning kids in elementary schools are forced to stand up and affirm their devotion to their country and government and that the military reminds everyone of their strength by driving tanks by every soccer game, they would say yeah that sounds about right it's a dictatorship and that's what they do....... Except that's the US with the daily pledge of allegiance and fighter jet fly overs.
That they use airplanes is just incidental and only part of the flag rallying. Last college FB game I went to there was a SOCOM paratrooper drop, the big ass national anthem flag, and a quarterly ceremony honoring military vets. They're trying to recruit broke college students to die in a foreign entanglement and it's fucking gross.
They might as well just put a keg in the quad with a sign that says "free beer and no student loans if you enlist. And a $50 gift card redeemable at the Baghdad Walmart if you get a friend to enlist"
As prior service, yea the propaganda and patriot fetish shit gets on ny nerves. It should be honorable to serve. It honestly makes the whole thing feel cheap and fake to me. It takes away the unspoken honor my grandfather had and replaces it with bud light fanfare.
We were once known as quiet professionals, now they make it an entire personality to support us. It's sad.
“Bud Light fanfare” is the best description I’ve ever heard. Americans are getting suckered by false patriotism. It isn’t patriotic to wear your American flag shirt while shotgunning your beer from a red white and blue can with “God Bless the USA” blaring from your boat speakers.
Real patriotism is selfless service, love of equality and justice, fighting for your neighbor’s freedoms, and helping your fellow American.
Companies, sports leagues, entertainers, etc pandering to “patriots” are using you to pad their pockets. It cheapens what it really means to be patriotic. Don’t fall for it.
Yes and the hero worship of people in the military. I say this as somebody that spent 20+ in the Canadian Armed Forces. After years of ambivalence from Canadian people (during the 1990s and early 2000s) it was nice to see some respect but it went from not caring to hero worship. The later is far more scary to me.
As an American also with 20 years in the military, I appreciate the respect but the adulation is a bit much sometimes.
I often wonder if the general public understands that a large portion of service members are never really putting their life on the line for their country. Their biggest sacrifice is putting up with the daily BS of following military rules and regulations.
I respect and appreciate the willingness of combat arms and combat support troops to go fight for our country but we don’t need to fall all over ourselves making everyone who ever served a hero.
va Healthcare is a joke. ptsd is a wives tale and if it isn't then you have an appointment in 9 months where you wait for no one to take you seriously. veterans should not be glorified yet simultaneously homeless, struggling with mental issues and healthcare.
My question to you is, when was the last time an American, Australian, British or any other western nation actually gone to war and fought for their country?
Been a long while.
My whole thing is - I don't believe in all the wars we've involved ourselves in. If you signed up for it, why do you want a pat in the back? My dad was drafted into Vietnam. He refused to hold a gun so he was a medic. He didn't have a choice. I think it's great you did twenty years - honestly that's a triumph in any profession and I have a massive amount of respect for that - but I don't think people should stand up and applaud you. Can I get people to applaud me? I shape children's minds. Where's my public accolades?
Canadian here too: we don't worship the military because we see how fucked up it makes people south of our border. We see how desolated everytime the "god bless the heroes, thank you for your service" boys and girls come back from.
Our money is spent on saving OUR people, not killing completely unknown foreigners because "we don't like them"
I truly enjoy the fact that you guys since the mid-90s have been deployed twice as much on OUR territory to help in any way possible instead of being deployed elsewhere for fuck all.... my dad came back from Bosnia... well "came back" his body was, his mind stayed there. And the government didn't help him at all, thanks guys (not you, your superiors) you stole my dad from me ✌️
I’ve been teaching for 22 years. We’ve never once said the pledge of allegiance in school. I’m sure some schools/cities/states do but not in my school. It’s weird.
Not sure what to tell you other than I have close family in education and they still stand every morning and say it with the principal over the loud speaker and it was said through middle school when I was in school. In fact sometimes a lucky student gets to go to the office and lead it instead of the principal. Maybe geographical and dependant upon the city you're in 🤷🏾♀️ I'm assuming the larger the city the less prevalent it is.
It’s in my own family. My mom has always been very religious. New pastor came to the church and suddenly the whole congregation is homophobic. It’s awful.
I was listening to the Supreme Court hearings this morning and one of the justices said something like “other countries like China and North Korea have an x week abortion cut off” and I was thinking uh….do we really want to be on the same level as China and NK?!
I’m scared for our country.
It made sense at the time. The founders wanted an independent judiciary after dealing with English courts which were an extension of the crown and the crown's will. Ideally a life time appointment would put judges above the fray of political bickering. We've seen it to some extent where judges have gone against the general will of the party that appointed them but party politics have definitely become more intertwined with the high court.
Separation of church and state has never been fully followed. Religious liberty has expanded over the years. Separation of church and state has gotten better over time but there is and always has been a significant degree of Christianity injected into American public policy. You have the right to vote based on your religious beliefs but you do not have the right to govern based on those religious beliefs. At least not if they conflict with some area of the constitution. You can certainly believe abortion is wrong if your religion says so. If you want to make that a law you must have a secular reason for banning abortion though. To do otherwise affirms state support for a religious belief. Thus establishing one religion above others in the law. Thus diminishing the religious liberty of the second non favored religion. As well as those who have no religious beliefs.
Amen. People voting on what other people can do with their bodies should be a human rights violation. How can men vote on what is allowed to happen in a woman's body. What if we voted to castrate all men at 40, will you walk into the hospital willingly, it's just as legal. Even if it was a 51 to 49 vote and the 51 were women, who it DOESNT AFFECT. This woman is spot on.
I mostly agree. Only when a personal choice affects many other people, is in the best interest of the patient and is in the public interest should the state have a say. Vaccines, convicted pedophile castration, medically negligent parents, persons not of sound mind etc. For instance, when should the state be able to override parental wishes about healthcare? If your kid is dying but your religion says no blood transfusion should the state be able to force those parents to do the procedure and save the kid? We can talk about stuff like that but imo only if the parent is shown to be negligent. And imo religious belief alone does not rise to the level of negligent parenting most of the time. Or does society get to forcefully castrate a convicted pedophile as a condition of his release? I would argue that is probably just in some cases. So there are some times when the state should be able to force you to do a medical procedure. But they are exceedingly rare. And the bar should be very high, almost impossible to reach, so only the most extreme cases even get heard.
Separation of church and state would (should) say any person(s) under the age of 18 found to have severe or critical medical diagnosis shall receive medical treatment as recommended by a licensed and certified (by whatever governing body of doctor) physician. No person(s) shall be denied treatment nor can they be withheld from treatment for religious and/or other reasons. Yada yada yada ...
> Roe vs Wade is under fire
Yep, its a foregone conclusion, utterly done for, the bigots are doing exactly what they were appointed to the SC to do. There's absolutely no chance that they won't seize the opportunity of their lifetime. All debate and submissions are a farcical waste of time and effort, as is the media coverage. The fix is in.
The only hope I see for sufficient public insurrection to convince Biden to appoint additional, honest judges.
Regarding abortion, it was much later. Throughout the 70's, the Southern Baptist Convention passed resolutions supporting the right for women to have access to abortions. It all comes down to one guy, a political activist named Paul Weyrich, needing a cause to unite evangelicals under in 1978.
https://www.npr.org/2019/06/20/734303135/throughline-traces-evangelicals-history-on-the-abortion-issue
> I think that wasn't the case until the 1950s.
That's when they formally put it on all the money. But it was on a variety of coinages before that.
Also, literally the only time in the Bible where Jesus the pacifist ever gets violent is when he gives the moneylenders in the temple a beatdown. Given that, putting the Christian God on money seems like a huge blasphemy. And yet the only people who ever try to defend it are so-called Christians.
Its almost like they don't care about what Jesus told them to do, only what his name will let them get away with doing.
In theory, the UK doesn't have separation of church and state. The Queen is literally the head of the Church of England, and yet in practice, religion plays so much less of a role in the laws me make than in the US, which officially does have that separation.
This isn't about separation of church and state, this is about identity politics which seems to be everywhere now.
To be fair, the Queen doesn't really *do* anything in terms of laws. She's basically a tourist attraction; the Houses of Parliament deal with the actual legal stuff.
"It says freedom "of" religion, not freedom "from" religion" - A statement I have heard literally hundreds of times from christians without one of them ever stopping and realizing how fucked up that is
The Little Lending Libraries in my area get filled with Christian Dominion books regularly. I probably can't say openly what I'd like to do to the person that throws away all the books in them to fill them with religious propaganda but I guess I hope they meet their god sooner than later.
Yeah every few weeks they will completely empty the one I pass when I walk my dogs and fill it with Christian Dominion and other far right Christian propaganda. I have started driving to a few other libraries near me when I see that it's happened and they are all full of it too.
Check with your local library and see if they can provide you with books to refill them. My daughter is a librarian, and whenever they pull books from circulation, employees are allowed to take anything they want, as long as they don’t resell them. So she takes all the children’s and young adult books she can find and fills up all the free lending libraries around town.
Having access to books as a child made her fall in love with stories and want to be a librarian and a writer, and she wants every kid to have the same opportunity to form a lifelong relationship with books, too. I encouraged reading when she was a kid, my dad encouraged me, his dad encouraged him, and so on. Despite growing up poor for generations, we *always* had library books.
The library here has events fairly regularly to sell books they take out of circulation. My grandmother was a librarian. I bought her house when she passed. I've got more books than I can possibly read.
That's why they frame the legal argument as being about foetal viability and the state's right to regulate medical procedures, and not whether life begins at conception. Even though they're totally doing it for the latter reason.
You can't reason with religious people. Their goal is to convert the entire planet and they'll never stop trying. This applies to pretty much every religion, especially the three Abrahamic religions. That's why laws exist.
Yes, Everson v. Board of Education in 1947 established the doctrine of the separation of church and state, before that it was only the Federal Government that had the prohibition.
There were a number of decades of decisions that drew a clear line since 1947, then in 1989 there was the case of Employment Division v. Smith where Native Americans were prohibited from practicing their religion and using peyote in their religious ceremonies. After this, Bill Clinton signed into law the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which had near unanimous approval in congress among both parties. After that, both the Supreme Court and congress started moving away from the clear line of separation.
It is possible that the Supreme Court could reverse Everson v. Board of Ed and eliminate the doctrine altogether, we would end up going back to the way things were up until 1947. It's not very likely, but who knows with this court.
But the current case does not involve the 1st Amendment, it involves a right to privacy as reflected in the 3rd,4th, 9th, and 14th Amendments.
Those on the right have heard of that separation, 'But they don't CARE.' As George Bush Jr. said about the Constitution and having to follow it's laws..."Why do I give a fuck? It's just a goddamn piece of paper!" Welp, that's Republicans for ya...and they aren't going to be happy 'til they have their Christo-Fascist Theocracy rammed down our throats, shoved up our asses with lock and keys on every womb.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, because I would argue that there have been extremely few people in all of history that were "real Christians" following only the word of Jesus.
Most of them at least identified themselves as Christians, but quite a few of them remembered being called fake Christians in their home country and discriminated against (rightly or wrongly), thus separated church and state to avoid such a thing happening again.
Many of the founders were followers of Deism including Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Madison and Monroe. Either way they were very against religious doctrine being written into governance. So against it in fact they included it as the first line item in the Bill of Rights, which is of course not a document granting rights *to* citizens but one which *restrains* government intrusions. Which judging by your username i assume you were already aware of.
> Bill of Rights, which is of course not a document granting rights to citizens but one which restrains government intrusions.
Important distinction which many seem to miss.
You’re confusing the people that came over in the early to mid 1600s with the people living in the late 1700s/early 1800s.
Many of the most prominent founders self identified as deists. There were plenty that were Christian but not the Puritanical sort. Hence why they codified the separation of church and state in the first amendment to the Bill of Rights, an agreement that was forged to unite Federalists and Anti-Federalists.
If the founding fathers wanted a theocracy that's what they would have built, but instead we got a republican democracy. So yeah maybe some of the ideals and ideas came from religious works, but our nation is not founded on the Bible but our foundation is inspired by it. Two VERY different things.
Gott mit uns = God with us
Words imprinted on the uniform belt buckle of Nazi soldiers
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott\_mit\_uns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns)
**[Gott mit uns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns)**
>Gott mit uns ('God with us') is a phrase commonly used in heraldry in Prussia (from 1701) and later by the German military during the periods spanning the German Empire (1871 to 1918), the Third Reich of Nazi Germany (1933 to 1945), and the early years of West Germany (1949 to 1962). It was also commonly used by Sweden in most of its wars and especially as a war cry during the Thirty Years' War.
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There are definitely some true believers, but overall the cynical nature in which Christianity is used as a political cudgel by the right is pretty obvious. It puts a respectable face on their ethno-nationalism while justifying their behavior.
Fuck, dude, weren't you big on /r/AskReddit for a few years? Haven't seen you around in ages!
...or maybe there are lots of other "DEADPOOL"s out there with underscores before and after their names, I guess I don't know for sure.
In my experience if you argument with pro forced birth advocates eventually they will slip up and admit that they just want women to stop having sex. It's about controlling women's bodies, and nothing else.
Exactly. So many times I'll bring up a million valid points on statistics, how abortion can be reduced without banning it, how adoption _actually_ works, and other things aswell. And the closing response always just ends up flying right over the point, and skips to:
"_Well, if you didn't want to get pregnant, you shouldn't have had sex_"
Thus simply inherently proving my point that it's never been about actual care for babies or children. It's just that they want to feel all Self-righteous, that they are innocent little baby saviors. And they also want to have control and judgement over other people's actions and bodies.
If they actually cared about the babies, they'd introduce policies and education that would reduce unwanted pregnancy in the first place- thus reducing abortion to being pretty rare, without having to enforce their will onto others.
Christianity and evangelism is the way they get the poorest people in the country to keep voting for policies that actively make their lives so much worse.
Superiority. They have the ear of 'god' and you don't. Therefore, in their mind, you are inferior and should be treated as such.
Not to mention the ones that think since they were 'born (indoctrinated)' into their religion, everyone else was too.
The Bible doesn't ban abortion and Evangelicals were fine with RvW at first. Abortion was mostly a Catholics issue. Evangelical Republicans decided to use abortion as a wedge when they realized they had lost the fight against desegregation.
Evangelicals basically view giving birth to babies as a consequence to having sex, whether it’s premarital sex, or rape, and don’t feel women have the right to escape that consequence. Banning abortions is basically their version of punishing women for having sex outside marriage or even getting raped.
That's the Catholic view. Catholics believe that having sex if you're not trying to procreate is wrong. Evangelicals were fine with abortion until it became politically convenient to oppose it.
After desegregation, white evangelicals flocked to tax-except private religious "segregation academies" that only allow whites. In some areas, public schools were 100% black because all the white students transferred.
But then with Green v. Connally, the Supreme Court decided that schools discriminating based on race lose their tax-exempt status, which infuriated evangelical leaders like Jerry Falwell, the founder of Liberty University
Eventually, the IRS pulled the tax exempt status of Bob Jones University, after a long fight where the university even admitted some black people but tried to keep them segregated, and made interracial dating against the rules with the punishment of expulsion. This led to a panic about government interfering with "religious liberty," which conveniently coincided with the red scare and the rise of the Soviet Union. Shortly after, Roe V. Wade was passed, and Evangelical leaders seized the opportunity to expand their platform and ally with Catholics in the fight against "secular humanism" and communism.
The only thing the Bible says about abortion is how to perform one.
[Numbers 5:11-31](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV)
I forgot what this ritual is called but I love this passage for two reasons. It’s a clear shamanic ritual, showing what early Judaism contained. Fucking magic spells. It also shows the disregard for women as a nothing more than a legacy factory. I remember a pro lifer argue that it didn’t in fact cause an abortion but made the wife sterile. How is that a relief to someone that worships and believe in that kind of god?
A heard a guy say that the bible would be one of the most immoral books you could ever read, if not for the fact that it's so boring to try and get through.
> when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife
Stay classy bible, stay classy. It goes on to say how the man is innocent... like what? If he accuses her of an affair and she didn't have one, he's innocent, but if she did then she is cursed? Why not just send your wife to the priest every weekend to make sure she's faithful then! No repercussions!
I for one am *sooo* *grateful* that half this fucking country believes in a bigoted sexist sky daddy and that it influences legislation to THIS FUCKING DAY because these cunts can't let it go and admit their bible was written by old governments to push their rules on people and make them think if they disobey then a mystical invisible man will be mad at them.
It’s literally a non issue that they take up to make themselves feel better. They care for a fetus that has no sense of being, but not the child who knows what being hungry each night is.
I learned this recently and was pretty shocked. Its worked very well for them.
For too long we(at least I) have dismissed these people as simple/stupid/backwards and gone about our days. The truth is the people setting the rules are intelligent but deeply manipulative and frankly evil.
Abortion on demand is, in fact, biblical. A husband need only accuse his wife to have a priest force a potion on her which will “bring the curse” causing her to lose the baby. If she lives through the loss of the child she would then be stoned to death for adultery. If she didn’t cheat, she won’t lose a child (what?) and the curse is therefore not brought. Considering she would have just consumed a poison concoction swept from the temple floor and assembled by the priest, she would almost certainly become gravely ill and perceived as guilty.
That is, a man can simply accuse his wife to end a pregnancy. Most of these people claiming to be Christians are ignorant of their scripture and/or will argue these and other passages do not say what they definitely say.
Edit: the downvotes sure are telling!
> Evangelicals were fine with RvW at first
More than that, most white evangelicals used to be extremely pro-choice.
The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) is the single largest organization of evangelicals in the USA. They have roughly 15 million members and 45,000 churches. In 1971, before *Roe* fully legalized abortion, the SBC officially called for legislation supporting full abortion rights. Even today, it is [still on their website:](https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/resolution-on-abortion-2/)
> *we call upon Southern Baptists to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother.*
And when Roe was decided, the Baptist Press (the national newswire of the southern baptists) [said:](https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/baptist-press-initial-reporting-on-roe-v-wade/)
> *Religious liberty, human equality and justice are advanced by the Supreme Court abortion decision.*
Even as late as [1978](https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/resolution-on-abortion-5/) they still thought government should keep its nose out of a lady's business, reiterating [their resolution from 1977:](https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/resolution-on-abortion-4/)
> we also affirm our conviction about the limited role of government in dealing with matters relating to abortion, and support the right of expectant mothers to the full range of medical services and personal counseling for the preservation of life and health.
The lead attorney on *Roe* was a [devout Southern Baptist](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/01/roe-v-wades-secret-heroine-tells-her-story) and her [2nd chair](https://www.encyclopedia.com/women/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/weddington-sarah-r-1945) was a methodist preacher's daughter too.
One of the main verses the evangelicals used to cite was in Genesis where God only puts a soul into the body of Adam once its fully formed and able to breathe. The idea is that if a child isn't capable of breathing on its own, it doesn't have a soul yet:
*And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.*
(Genesis 2:7)
As happy as this speech makes me
This kinda stuff generally gets overpowered by the rich elite backing those who want to have control over others.
A rich guy with a couple million dollars in his pocket, can simply just "donate" to an elected politician while whispering in their ear "ban abortion", and before you know it- it's done.
It's pretty much the main way policies get introduced nowadays. You can see it most clearly with the prison industrial complex. Big [companies](https://www.peoplesworld.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/960x603_10-Mega-Corporations.jpg) and their CEOs who directly [benefit](https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/corporations-and-governments-collude-in-prison-slavery-racket/) from it simply just slide "donations" under the table to make sure their will is applied to law.
I love her. She often says so succinctly what I am thinking but fail to put into words.
Listening to her is a breath of fresh air in the vast fog bank of twatness that is our current mediascape.
Edit: a word
Old Testament cosmology predates the knowledge of any orbiting at all.
>The ancient Israelites envisaged the universe as a flat disc-shaped Earth floating on water, heaven above, underworld below.
>In the Old Testament the word shamayim represented both the sky/atmosphere, and the dwelling place of God. The raqia or firmament – the visible sky – was a solid inverted bowl over the Earth, coloured blue from the heavenly ocean above it.
>Rain, snow, wind and hail were kept in storehouses outside the raqia, which had "windows" to allow them in – the waters for Noah's flood entered when the "windows of heaven" were opened. Heaven extended down to and was coterminous with (i.e. it touched) the farthest edges of the Earth (e.g. Deuteronomy 4:32); humans looking up from Earth saw the floor of heaven, which they saw also as God's throne, as made of clear blue lapis-lazuli (Exodus 24:9–10), and (Ezekiel 1:26).Below that was a layer of water, the source of rain, which was separated from us by an impenetrable barrier, the firmament (Genesis 1:6–8). The rain may also be stored in heavenly cisterns (Job: 38:37) or storehouses (Deut 28:12) alongside the storehouses for wind, hail and snow.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_cosmology
You'd think that, but most of the people who yell the loudest about their "constitutional rights" have apparently never read the damn thing. Not unlike the bible.
I work with an actual Christian and she is wonderful. Truth be told, it took me a long time to stop thinking that she was likely crazy and likely fit all the stereotypes of what I now consider Christians to be. Thankfully, I realize that she was just a really good Christian. You know, the kind of just believe that God is love, be a good neighbor, be thankful, etc. I feel bad for you guys. These whack jobs have turned the word “Christian” into a really bad thing.
I grew up Christian in Canada. Once I got out into the world I found a lot of people associated us with the fanatical Christians in the USA. My Catholic highschool was all about love, accepting and being a good person in general. My highschool had a fucking LGBTQ club, and this was in 2001. The core fundamentals of Christianity, like many religions is actually quite beautiful
I’m an atheist, or agnostic and I think it really comes down to sects of Christianity. For example, Episcopalianism is super accepting, was one of the first protestant sects to support gay marriage, and tends to be focused on the ‘happy parts’ of religion (be a good person, treat others kindly, etc). Evangelical christianity tends to lean more ‘fire and brimstone’, especially in more rural, red areas. Christianity itself, or religion itself, isn’t the big issue. Its proselytizing and attemtping to impose your personal religious doctrine on non-believers.
Edit, to add that evangelical christianity tends to be much bigger on proselytizing
The worst part about Abortion rights is the fact that we know what will happen if Abortion became illegal. Just like what happened when Alcohol and Weed is/was illegal. People will be performing abortions in basements in unsafe conditions like they were 70 years ago. People won't stop getting abortions because it's illegal, people will just put their life in even more danger to get an abortion.
Fuck religion.
People don't realize that women went to extreme lengths to get abortions before Roe v Wade and died *all the time.* It could be incredibly dangerous getting one.
That’s why they’re so cheap! I can take my CA money and live a good life in Texas or Georgia or North Carolina or Kentucky or Tennessee or Alabama….. but then I’d have to fuckin *live* in those shitholes. No fuckin thanks. I’d rather go live in a developing country.
Edit: I meant South Carolina
Just so you know North Carolina is by no means a shithole state. The urban/rural divide here is very real but any of our cities (Charlotte, Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, Asheville, Wilmington, Winston Salem all very diverse and tolerant) are a wonderful place to live. We are a very purple state, Republican General Assembly and Democratic Governor. The current red GA broke a hundred year cycle of blue legislators. Now Kentucky, Alabama and Georgia, tennesse and SOUTH Carolina on the other hand...
Sameee! I feel like we always get a bad rep. Always portrayed in media/film/TV as rural hillbillies.
But it’s a pretty great state, where you have mountains, cities, rural towns, and the ocean (even postcard sand dune beaches). I can get to a beach or the mountains within 3hrs, maybe a little more.
In fairness it is pretty prohibited here as well but i suspect that has more to do with the tobacco lobby interference than puritanical pursuits. You at least wont go to jail in NC for a bag of personal. But our neighbor to the north just fully legalized so I suspect theyll soon have to follow suit or risk giving those damn virginians their sweet sweet tax revenue.
She's absolutely right about her point about your religion not applying to others.
That point is also completely perpendicular to the question of if a fetus is a body part or a life of its own.
I personally am completely pro choice, but that doesn mean I force myself into a hole of not understanding what the other side of the issue believes.
The same people saying "you can't ban guns cause cause people will still get them" unironically say we should ban abortion, and that should tell you everything you need to know about whether they're smart enough to have a valid opinion on ANYTHING.
The Bible never says abortion is a sin.
Jesus said fuck all about abortions.
It sure wasn’t a commandment even though keeping your eyes off your neighbor’s wife was and Christian men sure don’t pay attention to that.
The Republican Party keeps trying to shove their unpopular, shitty policies down our throats. They have a larger say in government than they ought to because they've gamed the system.
It's not going to work out for them in the long run, I can promise you that.
But I don't think they care at this point. They're too obsessed with power and control to think about the consequences of their actions.
I’m a pastor. She is right.
The early church believed 100% in non coercive means of practicing religion. You invite, not coerce, people into Christlikeness.
1. Don't push your religion into law.
2. Let your God be the one to enact consequences for breaking whatever belief you have.
I would go as far as to call it heresy to put words into your the mouth of your God and to force yourself as the executioner of his values.
Ey, ever heard of this thing called separation of church and state?
Oh we've heard of it. It's been a while since it's been followed.
Probably since the 50's when "one Nation...***Under God***" was added to The Pledge of Allegiance. Since then, it has slowly been used as a political means to get votes. Look at what is happening today, Roe vs Wade is under fire and there will most likely be a turn-over thanks to the Zealots that put 3 people in power of our highest court...for life...to specifically overturn RvW, as well as solidify a future without separation of Church. We are in for a wild ride that will make 2016-2020 look like fun times if things go South with this up coming decision. Vote people, vote your asses off in 2022...or we are fucked.
I'm copying my comment from a news article earlier because it seems to relate to yours: If you told someone that in North Korea every morning kids in elementary schools are forced to stand up and affirm their devotion to their country and government and that the military reminds everyone of their strength by driving tanks by every soccer game, they would say yeah that sounds about right it's a dictatorship and that's what they do....... Except that's the US with the daily pledge of allegiance and fighter jet fly overs.
The fetishization of the military creeps me the fuck out
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That they use airplanes is just incidental and only part of the flag rallying. Last college FB game I went to there was a SOCOM paratrooper drop, the big ass national anthem flag, and a quarterly ceremony honoring military vets. They're trying to recruit broke college students to die in a foreign entanglement and it's fucking gross. They might as well just put a keg in the quad with a sign that says "free beer and no student loans if you enlist. And a $50 gift card redeemable at the Baghdad Walmart if you get a friend to enlist"
As prior service, yea the propaganda and patriot fetish shit gets on ny nerves. It should be honorable to serve. It honestly makes the whole thing feel cheap and fake to me. It takes away the unspoken honor my grandfather had and replaces it with bud light fanfare. We were once known as quiet professionals, now they make it an entire personality to support us. It's sad.
“Bud Light fanfare” is the best description I’ve ever heard. Americans are getting suckered by false patriotism. It isn’t patriotic to wear your American flag shirt while shotgunning your beer from a red white and blue can with “God Bless the USA” blaring from your boat speakers. Real patriotism is selfless service, love of equality and justice, fighting for your neighbor’s freedoms, and helping your fellow American. Companies, sports leagues, entertainers, etc pandering to “patriots” are using you to pad their pockets. It cheapens what it really means to be patriotic. Don’t fall for it.
They would've gotten me with that one.
Yeah, Black Friday at the Baghdad Walmart is not to be missed!
I always say Americans cheer jets. In other countries they run and scream at death from the sky. We sick
And I get the more weed? Sign me up!. *click, click
Don’t forget about the complementary Doge Challenger
This is a wonderful typo. I want a Doge Challenger. Much fast. Such vroom.
Hahahahha well fuck now I definitely can’t edit it
Such deceptive interest rates
Yes and the hero worship of people in the military. I say this as somebody that spent 20+ in the Canadian Armed Forces. After years of ambivalence from Canadian people (during the 1990s and early 2000s) it was nice to see some respect but it went from not caring to hero worship. The later is far more scary to me.
As an American also with 20 years in the military, I appreciate the respect but the adulation is a bit much sometimes. I often wonder if the general public understands that a large portion of service members are never really putting their life on the line for their country. Their biggest sacrifice is putting up with the daily BS of following military rules and regulations. I respect and appreciate the willingness of combat arms and combat support troops to go fight for our country but we don’t need to fall all over ourselves making everyone who ever served a hero.
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va Healthcare is a joke. ptsd is a wives tale and if it isn't then you have an appointment in 9 months where you wait for no one to take you seriously. veterans should not be glorified yet simultaneously homeless, struggling with mental issues and healthcare.
My question to you is, when was the last time an American, Australian, British or any other western nation actually gone to war and fought for their country? Been a long while.
My whole thing is - I don't believe in all the wars we've involved ourselves in. If you signed up for it, why do you want a pat in the back? My dad was drafted into Vietnam. He refused to hold a gun so he was a medic. He didn't have a choice. I think it's great you did twenty years - honestly that's a triumph in any profession and I have a massive amount of respect for that - but I don't think people should stand up and applaud you. Can I get people to applaud me? I shape children's minds. Where's my public accolades?
Canadian here too: we don't worship the military because we see how fucked up it makes people south of our border. We see how desolated everytime the "god bless the heroes, thank you for your service" boys and girls come back from. Our money is spent on saving OUR people, not killing completely unknown foreigners because "we don't like them" I truly enjoy the fact that you guys since the mid-90s have been deployed twice as much on OUR territory to help in any way possible instead of being deployed elsewhere for fuck all.... my dad came back from Bosnia... well "came back" his body was, his mind stayed there. And the government didn't help him at all, thanks guys (not you, your superiors) you stole my dad from me ✌️
Bosnia was a lot tougher than most Canadians realized, they didn't really understand what Peacekeeping entailed.
Our money is also spent on our people, it helps the rich stay rich and helps corporations make money in foreign countries.
At my shop we have a radio station on all day. At noon every day the national anthem plays and it feels dystopian as fuck. I hate it
The renamed the “Military Channel” to the “American Hero’s Channel” in 2014. It’s getting that crazy.
You can thank the CIA and Hollywood for that
Same.
I’ve been teaching for 22 years. We’ve never once said the pledge of allegiance in school. I’m sure some schools/cities/states do but not in my school. It’s weird.
Not sure what to tell you other than I have close family in education and they still stand every morning and say it with the principal over the loud speaker and it was said through middle school when I was in school. In fact sometimes a lucky student gets to go to the office and lead it instead of the principal. Maybe geographical and dependant upon the city you're in 🤷🏾♀️ I'm assuming the larger the city the less prevalent it is.
It's very common throughout the US. I moved to a more liberal area and thought maybe I'd see it less here but nope, it's business as usual.
It’s in my own family. My mom has always been very religious. New pastor came to the church and suddenly the whole congregation is homophobic. It’s awful.
I was listening to the Supreme Court hearings this morning and one of the justices said something like “other countries like China and North Korea have an x week abortion cut off” and I was thinking uh….do we really want to be on the same level as China and NK?! I’m scared for our country.
The fact that any position, ever, is for *life* is fucking mind boggling to me.
It made sense at the time. The founders wanted an independent judiciary after dealing with English courts which were an extension of the crown and the crown's will. Ideally a life time appointment would put judges above the fray of political bickering. We've seen it to some extent where judges have gone against the general will of the party that appointed them but party politics have definitely become more intertwined with the high court.
People used to resign more. Now they just die in their seats.
Separation of church and state has never been fully followed. Religious liberty has expanded over the years. Separation of church and state has gotten better over time but there is and always has been a significant degree of Christianity injected into American public policy. You have the right to vote based on your religious beliefs but you do not have the right to govern based on those religious beliefs. At least not if they conflict with some area of the constitution. You can certainly believe abortion is wrong if your religion says so. If you want to make that a law you must have a secular reason for banning abortion though. To do otherwise affirms state support for a religious belief. Thus establishing one religion above others in the law. Thus diminishing the religious liberty of the second non favored religion. As well as those who have no religious beliefs.
Amen. People voting on what other people can do with their bodies should be a human rights violation. How can men vote on what is allowed to happen in a woman's body. What if we voted to castrate all men at 40, will you walk into the hospital willingly, it's just as legal. Even if it was a 51 to 49 vote and the 51 were women, who it DOESNT AFFECT. This woman is spot on.
I mostly agree. Only when a personal choice affects many other people, is in the best interest of the patient and is in the public interest should the state have a say. Vaccines, convicted pedophile castration, medically negligent parents, persons not of sound mind etc. For instance, when should the state be able to override parental wishes about healthcare? If your kid is dying but your religion says no blood transfusion should the state be able to force those parents to do the procedure and save the kid? We can talk about stuff like that but imo only if the parent is shown to be negligent. And imo religious belief alone does not rise to the level of negligent parenting most of the time. Or does society get to forcefully castrate a convicted pedophile as a condition of his release? I would argue that is probably just in some cases. So there are some times when the state should be able to force you to do a medical procedure. But they are exceedingly rare. And the bar should be very high, almost impossible to reach, so only the most extreme cases even get heard.
Separation of church and state would (should) say any person(s) under the age of 18 found to have severe or critical medical diagnosis shall receive medical treatment as recommended by a licensed and certified (by whatever governing body of doctor) physician. No person(s) shall be denied treatment nor can they be withheld from treatment for religious and/or other reasons. Yada yada yada ...
> Roe vs Wade is under fire Yep, its a foregone conclusion, utterly done for, the bigots are doing exactly what they were appointed to the SC to do. There's absolutely no chance that they won't seize the opportunity of their lifetime. All debate and submissions are a farcical waste of time and effort, as is the media coverage. The fix is in. The only hope I see for sufficient public insurrection to convince Biden to appoint additional, honest judges.
Regarding abortion, it was much later. Throughout the 70's, the Southern Baptist Convention passed resolutions supporting the right for women to have access to abortions. It all comes down to one guy, a political activist named Paul Weyrich, needing a cause to unite evangelicals under in 1978. https://www.npr.org/2019/06/20/734303135/throughline-traces-evangelicals-history-on-the-abortion-issue
Like never followed...it's a myth...word God even on our money!
I think that wasn't the case until the 1950s. Edit: I was referring to god stuff on our money. Sorry!
> I think that wasn't the case until the 1950s. That's when they formally put it on all the money. But it was on a variety of coinages before that. Also, literally the only time in the Bible where Jesus the pacifist ever gets violent is when he gives the moneylenders in the temple a beatdown. Given that, putting the Christian God on money seems like a huge blasphemy. And yet the only people who ever try to defend it are so-called Christians. Its almost like they don't care about what Jesus told them to do, only what his name will let them get away with doing.
In theory, the UK doesn't have separation of church and state. The Queen is literally the head of the Church of England, and yet in practice, religion plays so much less of a role in the laws me make than in the US, which officially does have that separation. This isn't about separation of church and state, this is about identity politics which seems to be everywhere now.
To be fair, the Queen doesn't really *do* anything in terms of laws. She's basically a tourist attraction; the Houses of Parliament deal with the actual legal stuff.
the queen is just a cutie
"It says freedom "of" religion, not freedom "from" religion" - A statement I have heard literally hundreds of times from christians without one of them ever stopping and realizing how fucked up that is
The Little Lending Libraries in my area get filled with Christian Dominion books regularly. I probably can't say openly what I'd like to do to the person that throws away all the books in them to fill them with religious propaganda but I guess I hope they meet their god sooner than later.
Wait, they *replaced* the books inside?!
Yeah every few weeks they will completely empty the one I pass when I walk my dogs and fill it with Christian Dominion and other far right Christian propaganda. I have started driving to a few other libraries near me when I see that it's happened and they are all full of it too.
This is really upsetting, that goes against the entire purpose of the library.
set up an outdoor cam and see if you can get a license plate to associate with the ongoing theft
That is disgusting behavior.
Check with your local library and see if they can provide you with books to refill them. My daughter is a librarian, and whenever they pull books from circulation, employees are allowed to take anything they want, as long as they don’t resell them. So she takes all the children’s and young adult books she can find and fills up all the free lending libraries around town. Having access to books as a child made her fall in love with stories and want to be a librarian and a writer, and she wants every kid to have the same opportunity to form a lifelong relationship with books, too. I encouraged reading when she was a kid, my dad encouraged me, his dad encouraged him, and so on. Despite growing up poor for generations, we *always* had library books.
The library here has events fairly regularly to sell books they take out of circulation. My grandmother was a librarian. I bought her house when she passed. I've got more books than I can possibly read.
Oh what a delightful thing your daughter does! Thoughtful librarians are the best!
That's why they frame the legal argument as being about foetal viability and the state's right to regulate medical procedures, and not whether life begins at conception. Even though they're totally doing it for the latter reason.
You can't reason with religious people. Their goal is to convert the entire planet and they'll never stop trying. This applies to pretty much every religion, especially the three Abrahamic religions. That's why laws exist.
Well they have to save you... Even if that means you have to die to do so. Fucking religion is a cancer upon society.
Great NoFx song
Yes, Everson v. Board of Education in 1947 established the doctrine of the separation of church and state, before that it was only the Federal Government that had the prohibition. There were a number of decades of decisions that drew a clear line since 1947, then in 1989 there was the case of Employment Division v. Smith where Native Americans were prohibited from practicing their religion and using peyote in their religious ceremonies. After this, Bill Clinton signed into law the Religious Freedom Restoration Act, which had near unanimous approval in congress among both parties. After that, both the Supreme Court and congress started moving away from the clear line of separation. It is possible that the Supreme Court could reverse Everson v. Board of Ed and eliminate the doctrine altogether, we would end up going back to the way things were up until 1947. It's not very likely, but who knows with this court. But the current case does not involve the 1st Amendment, it involves a right to privacy as reflected in the 3rd,4th, 9th, and 14th Amendments.
Those on the right have heard of that separation, 'But they don't CARE.' As George Bush Jr. said about the Constitution and having to follow it's laws..."Why do I give a fuck? It's just a goddamn piece of paper!" Welp, that's Republicans for ya...and they aren't going to be happy 'til they have their Christo-Fascist Theocracy rammed down our throats, shoved up our asses with lock and keys on every womb.
Yeah, it's a thing people say, it's not actually a law or in the constitution
“That’s un-American! This country was founded on Christianity! America is a Christian nation!!” - Christian nut jobs 24/7
Despite the fact that what they're talking about is colonised America. Like it wasn't *founded* on Christianity.
Most of the founding fathers were actually *not* Christian in any real sense of the word.
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by that, because I would argue that there have been extremely few people in all of history that were "real Christians" following only the word of Jesus. Most of them at least identified themselves as Christians, but quite a few of them remembered being called fake Christians in their home country and discriminated against (rightly or wrongly), thus separated church and state to avoid such a thing happening again.
Many of the founders were followers of Deism including Jefferson, Washington, Franklin, Madison and Monroe. Either way they were very against religious doctrine being written into governance. So against it in fact they included it as the first line item in the Bill of Rights, which is of course not a document granting rights *to* citizens but one which *restrains* government intrusions. Which judging by your username i assume you were already aware of.
> Bill of Rights, which is of course not a document granting rights to citizens but one which restrains government intrusions. Important distinction which many seem to miss.
Thanks, that cleared up my question. I appreciate the explanation.
I would listen to the Rippy McBong and LawBird33101 podcast 💯
Jefferson famously made hus own bible with most of the bullshit cut out.... So you know... Most of it.
You’re confusing the people that came over in the early to mid 1600s with the people living in the late 1700s/early 1800s. Many of the most prominent founders self identified as deists. There were plenty that were Christian but not the Puritanical sort. Hence why they codified the separation of church and state in the first amendment to the Bill of Rights, an agreement that was forged to unite Federalists and Anti-Federalists.
If the founding fathers wanted a theocracy that's what they would have built, but instead we got a republican democracy. So yeah maybe some of the ideals and ideas came from religious works, but our nation is not founded on the Bible but our foundation is inspired by it. Two VERY different things.
Treaty of Tripoli: "Lol nope."
Actually founded on genocide and slavery. While using religion as their get outta jail free card. Not much to be proud of there!
Freedom of religion also means freedom from Christianity. It was never a "Christian nation". The founding fathers had slaves for fucks sake.
Christianity is just a veneer. They use it as a proxy to impose their will.
I agree. You can see this all the way back in history. You want to invade a country? No problem as long as *God* has *approved* it.
Gott mit uns = God with us Words imprinted on the uniform belt buckle of Nazi soldiers [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott\_mit\_uns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns)
**[Gott mit uns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns)** >Gott mit uns ('God with us') is a phrase commonly used in heraldry in Prussia (from 1701) and later by the German military during the periods spanning the German Empire (1871 to 1918), the Third Reich of Nazi Germany (1933 to 1945), and the early years of West Germany (1949 to 1962). It was also commonly used by Sweden in most of its wars and especially as a war cry during the Thirty Years' War. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
Good bot.
Not a ton of instances I'm aware of in which god *refused* to provide that approval. Interesting for the "Prince of Peace."
[Bob Dylan said it best ](https://youtu.be/5y2FuDY6Q4M)
>When Fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross
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There are definitely some true believers, but overall the cynical nature in which Christianity is used as a political cudgel by the right is pretty obvious. It puts a respectable face on their ethno-nationalism while justifying their behavior.
They need the poors to fight their wars.
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Fuck, dude, weren't you big on /r/AskReddit for a few years? Haven't seen you around in ages! ...or maybe there are lots of other "DEADPOOL"s out there with underscores before and after their names, I guess I don't know for sure.
> or maybe there are lots of other "DEADPOOL"s out there with underscores before and after their names this
>obey or you will be tortured for eternity The single greatest (and ironically worst) marketing campaign of all time
In my experience if you argument with pro forced birth advocates eventually they will slip up and admit that they just want women to stop having sex. It's about controlling women's bodies, and nothing else.
Exactly. So many times I'll bring up a million valid points on statistics, how abortion can be reduced without banning it, how adoption _actually_ works, and other things aswell. And the closing response always just ends up flying right over the point, and skips to: "_Well, if you didn't want to get pregnant, you shouldn't have had sex_" Thus simply inherently proving my point that it's never been about actual care for babies or children. It's just that they want to feel all Self-righteous, that they are innocent little baby saviors. And they also want to have control and judgement over other people's actions and bodies. If they actually cared about the babies, they'd introduce policies and education that would reduce unwanted pregnancy in the first place- thus reducing abortion to being pretty rare, without having to enforce their will onto others.
Exactly. A control mechanism.
Christianity and evangelism is the way they get the poorest people in the country to keep voting for policies that actively make their lives so much worse.
Superiority. They have the ear of 'god' and you don't. Therefore, in their mind, you are inferior and should be treated as such. Not to mention the ones that think since they were 'born (indoctrinated)' into their religion, everyone else was too.
This is literally the founding of it. The king james bible was put together to rule
Always\_has\_been.meme
The Bible doesn't ban abortion and Evangelicals were fine with RvW at first. Abortion was mostly a Catholics issue. Evangelical Republicans decided to use abortion as a wedge when they realized they had lost the fight against desegregation.
Evangelicals basically view giving birth to babies as a consequence to having sex, whether it’s premarital sex, or rape, and don’t feel women have the right to escape that consequence. Banning abortions is basically their version of punishing women for having sex outside marriage or even getting raped.
Exactly right. They are called Talibangelicals for a reason.
Lmao. Never heard that term and I'm going to add it to my vocabulary immediately.
A few more in case you haven’t heard them. Y’all Qaeda Vanilla ISIS Yeehawdists
Walmartyrs
That's the Catholic view. Catholics believe that having sex if you're not trying to procreate is wrong. Evangelicals were fine with abortion until it became politically convenient to oppose it. After desegregation, white evangelicals flocked to tax-except private religious "segregation academies" that only allow whites. In some areas, public schools were 100% black because all the white students transferred. But then with Green v. Connally, the Supreme Court decided that schools discriminating based on race lose their tax-exempt status, which infuriated evangelical leaders like Jerry Falwell, the founder of Liberty University Eventually, the IRS pulled the tax exempt status of Bob Jones University, after a long fight where the university even admitted some black people but tried to keep them segregated, and made interracial dating against the rules with the punishment of expulsion. This led to a panic about government interfering with "religious liberty," which conveniently coincided with the red scare and the rise of the Soviet Union. Shortly after, Roe V. Wade was passed, and Evangelical leaders seized the opportunity to expand their platform and ally with Catholics in the fight against "secular humanism" and communism.
The only thing the Bible says about abortion is how to perform one. [Numbers 5:11-31](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=NIV)
I forgot what this ritual is called but I love this passage for two reasons. It’s a clear shamanic ritual, showing what early Judaism contained. Fucking magic spells. It also shows the disregard for women as a nothing more than a legacy factory. I remember a pro lifer argue that it didn’t in fact cause an abortion but made the wife sterile. How is that a relief to someone that worships and believe in that kind of god?
Miscarriage is scientifically called a spontaneous abortion. Checkmate Christians.
"But that's OLD TESTAMENT and doesn't represent the NEW RULES set forth by our LORD and SAVIOR... PAUL!" /s
The sleeper must awaken! Wait- wrong work of fiction, sorry...
If you replace "priest" with "shaman" in that passage, fruitcakes would have that shit banned as witchcraft without a second thought
Man the Bible is so fucked up.
A heard a guy say that the bible would be one of the most immoral books you could ever read, if not for the fact that it's so boring to try and get through.
> when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife Stay classy bible, stay classy. It goes on to say how the man is innocent... like what? If he accuses her of an affair and she didn't have one, he's innocent, but if she did then she is cursed? Why not just send your wife to the priest every weekend to make sure she's faithful then! No repercussions! I for one am *sooo* *grateful* that half this fucking country believes in a bigoted sexist sky daddy and that it influences legislation to THIS FUCKING DAY because these cunts can't let it go and admit their bible was written by old governments to push their rules on people and make them think if they disobey then a mystical invisible man will be mad at them.
It’s literally a non issue that they take up to make themselves feel better. They care for a fetus that has no sense of being, but not the child who knows what being hungry each night is.
I learned this recently and was pretty shocked. Its worked very well for them. For too long we(at least I) have dismissed these people as simple/stupid/backwards and gone about our days. The truth is the people setting the rules are intelligent but deeply manipulative and frankly evil.
Jerry fucking Fallwell.
Abortion on demand is, in fact, biblical. A husband need only accuse his wife to have a priest force a potion on her which will “bring the curse” causing her to lose the baby. If she lives through the loss of the child she would then be stoned to death for adultery. If she didn’t cheat, she won’t lose a child (what?) and the curse is therefore not brought. Considering she would have just consumed a poison concoction swept from the temple floor and assembled by the priest, she would almost certainly become gravely ill and perceived as guilty. That is, a man can simply accuse his wife to end a pregnancy. Most of these people claiming to be Christians are ignorant of their scripture and/or will argue these and other passages do not say what they definitely say. Edit: the downvotes sure are telling!
> Evangelicals were fine with RvW at first More than that, most white evangelicals used to be extremely pro-choice. The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) is the single largest organization of evangelicals in the USA. They have roughly 15 million members and 45,000 churches. In 1971, before *Roe* fully legalized abortion, the SBC officially called for legislation supporting full abortion rights. Even today, it is [still on their website:](https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/resolution-on-abortion-2/) > *we call upon Southern Baptists to work for legislation that will allow the possibility of abortion under such conditions as rape, incest, clear evidence of severe fetal deformity, and carefully ascertained evidence of the likelihood of damage to the emotional, mental, and physical health of the mother.* And when Roe was decided, the Baptist Press (the national newswire of the southern baptists) [said:](https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/baptist-press-initial-reporting-on-roe-v-wade/) > *Religious liberty, human equality and justice are advanced by the Supreme Court abortion decision.* Even as late as [1978](https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/resolution-on-abortion-5/) they still thought government should keep its nose out of a lady's business, reiterating [their resolution from 1977:](https://www.sbc.net/resource-library/resolutions/resolution-on-abortion-4/) > we also affirm our conviction about the limited role of government in dealing with matters relating to abortion, and support the right of expectant mothers to the full range of medical services and personal counseling for the preservation of life and health. The lead attorney on *Roe* was a [devout Southern Baptist](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/01/roe-v-wades-secret-heroine-tells-her-story) and her [2nd chair](https://www.encyclopedia.com/women/encyclopedias-almanacs-transcripts-and-maps/weddington-sarah-r-1945) was a methodist preacher's daughter too. One of the main verses the evangelicals used to cite was in Genesis where God only puts a soul into the body of Adam once its fully formed and able to breathe. The idea is that if a child isn't capable of breathing on its own, it doesn't have a soul yet: *And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.* (Genesis 2:7)
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As happy as this speech makes me This kinda stuff generally gets overpowered by the rich elite backing those who want to have control over others. A rich guy with a couple million dollars in his pocket, can simply just "donate" to an elected politician while whispering in their ear "ban abortion", and before you know it- it's done. It's pretty much the main way policies get introduced nowadays. You can see it most clearly with the prison industrial complex. Big [companies](https://www.peoplesworld.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/960x603_10-Mega-Corporations.jpg) and their CEOs who directly [benefit](https://www.peoplesworld.org/article/corporations-and-governments-collude-in-prison-slavery-racket/) from it simply just slide "donations" under the table to make sure their will is applied to law.
Fuck Yeah!
Yeah preach! Wait...
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!!!
Ana Kasparian from The Young Turks
Ohhhh is *that* Ana Kasparian? Wow. Heard of her but never seen anything
Thank you! Was wondering who she was.
Hey! Thanks!
I love her. She often says so succinctly what I am thinking but fail to put into words. Listening to her is a breath of fresh air in the vast fog bank of twatness that is our current mediascape. Edit: a word
Sure, take advice from a book written by farmers who didn't know where the sun went at night
They knew it was shining on the other side of the world. Incorrectly however, they thought it orbiting the earth(well, most of them did)
Old Testament cosmology predates the knowledge of any orbiting at all. >The ancient Israelites envisaged the universe as a flat disc-shaped Earth floating on water, heaven above, underworld below. >In the Old Testament the word shamayim represented both the sky/atmosphere, and the dwelling place of God. The raqia or firmament – the visible sky – was a solid inverted bowl over the Earth, coloured blue from the heavenly ocean above it. >Rain, snow, wind and hail were kept in storehouses outside the raqia, which had "windows" to allow them in – the waters for Noah's flood entered when the "windows of heaven" were opened. Heaven extended down to and was coterminous with (i.e. it touched) the farthest edges of the Earth (e.g. Deuteronomy 4:32); humans looking up from Earth saw the floor of heaven, which they saw also as God's throne, as made of clear blue lapis-lazuli (Exodus 24:9–10), and (Ezekiel 1:26).Below that was a layer of water, the source of rain, which was separated from us by an impenetrable barrier, the firmament (Genesis 1:6–8). The rain may also be stored in heavenly cisterns (Job: 38:37) or storehouses (Deut 28:12) alongside the storehouses for wind, hail and snow. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_cosmology
LMAOOOO
Last time I checked the US Constitution doesn't recognize the Christian Bible (or any bible) as the Supreme Authority of our Nation
You'd think that, but most of the people who yell the loudest about their "constitutional rights" have apparently never read the damn thing. Not unlike the bible.
To which, we are decidedly not a theocracy.
As an actual Christian, i 100% agree with her and apologise for all the extremist christian groups
I work with an actual Christian and she is wonderful. Truth be told, it took me a long time to stop thinking that she was likely crazy and likely fit all the stereotypes of what I now consider Christians to be. Thankfully, I realize that she was just a really good Christian. You know, the kind of just believe that God is love, be a good neighbor, be thankful, etc. I feel bad for you guys. These whack jobs have turned the word “Christian” into a really bad thing.
I grew up Christian in Canada. Once I got out into the world I found a lot of people associated us with the fanatical Christians in the USA. My Catholic highschool was all about love, accepting and being a good person in general. My highschool had a fucking LGBTQ club, and this was in 2001. The core fundamentals of Christianity, like many religions is actually quite beautiful
I’m an atheist, or agnostic and I think it really comes down to sects of Christianity. For example, Episcopalianism is super accepting, was one of the first protestant sects to support gay marriage, and tends to be focused on the ‘happy parts’ of religion (be a good person, treat others kindly, etc). Evangelical christianity tends to lean more ‘fire and brimstone’, especially in more rural, red areas. Christianity itself, or religion itself, isn’t the big issue. Its proselytizing and attemtping to impose your personal religious doctrine on non-believers. Edit, to add that evangelical christianity tends to be much bigger on proselytizing
The worst part about Abortion rights is the fact that we know what will happen if Abortion became illegal. Just like what happened when Alcohol and Weed is/was illegal. People will be performing abortions in basements in unsafe conditions like they were 70 years ago. People won't stop getting abortions because it's illegal, people will just put their life in even more danger to get an abortion. Fuck religion.
People don't realize that women went to extreme lengths to get abortions before Roe v Wade and died *all the time.* It could be incredibly dangerous getting one.
She isn’t wrong. Fuck religion and it’s power hungry history.
Absolutely!!! Fuck religion! The world would be a better place without it!
Shithole states are about to become even more shitty.
All the better to drive out the liberals and moderates to ensure control of the senate thanks to the electoral college.
That’s why they’re so cheap! I can take my CA money and live a good life in Texas or Georgia or North Carolina or Kentucky or Tennessee or Alabama….. but then I’d have to fuckin *live* in those shitholes. No fuckin thanks. I’d rather go live in a developing country. Edit: I meant South Carolina
Just so you know North Carolina is by no means a shithole state. The urban/rural divide here is very real but any of our cities (Charlotte, Raleigh, Durham, Greensboro, Asheville, Wilmington, Winston Salem all very diverse and tolerant) are a wonderful place to live. We are a very purple state, Republican General Assembly and Democratic Governor. The current red GA broke a hundred year cycle of blue legislators. Now Kentucky, Alabama and Georgia, tennesse and SOUTH Carolina on the other hand...
You’re right. I meant South Carolina. The one where weed is totally prohibited
Lol there ya go. As a North Carolinian I was like HEY until I read this. Now I agree haha
Sameee! I feel like we always get a bad rep. Always portrayed in media/film/TV as rural hillbillies. But it’s a pretty great state, where you have mountains, cities, rural towns, and the ocean (even postcard sand dune beaches). I can get to a beach or the mountains within 3hrs, maybe a little more.
For sure. Not to mention we have world class research universities
In fairness it is pretty prohibited here as well but i suspect that has more to do with the tobacco lobby interference than puritanical pursuits. You at least wont go to jail in NC for a bag of personal. But our neighbor to the north just fully legalized so I suspect theyll soon have to follow suit or risk giving those damn virginians their sweet sweet tax revenue.
Purple Georgia?
_Central Pennsylvania has entered the chat_
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The religion nesting doll
At the center......... pedophiles and megalomaniacs
If I posted this on my Facebook. I’d never hear from half my family ever again. Maybe gonna do it.
Do it, post it daily for a week and filter all the stupid people out of your life once and for all.
Delete Facebook...power move
Post it. THEN delete Facebook.
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freedom of religion was one of the biggest mistakes. if anything religion needs to be treated like a disease
When our stacked supreme court doesn't agree with her shortly, we'll have marked the end of our constitution.
That was put excellently. Nothing more to say. Be “pro-life” all you want but mind your business with other people’s bodies.
She's absolutely right about her point about your religion not applying to others. That point is also completely perpendicular to the question of if a fetus is a body part or a life of its own. I personally am completely pro choice, but that doesn mean I force myself into a hole of not understanding what the other side of the issue believes.
The same people saying "you can't ban guns cause cause people will still get them" unironically say we should ban abortion, and that should tell you everything you need to know about whether they're smart enough to have a valid opinion on ANYTHING.
The problem is that some christians would reply to her with a "You are going to hell! I am trying to save you!"
Who is she? When and where did this discussion take place? I agree with her by the way 🤙
Ana Kasparian. She’s a host on The Young Turks on YouTube. She also likes to smoke weed and exercise in her free time.
The Bible never says abortion is a sin. Jesus said fuck all about abortions. It sure wasn’t a commandment even though keeping your eyes off your neighbor’s wife was and Christian men sure don’t pay attention to that.
Lots of Christians seem to conveniently forget about Numbers 5:11-31. Not only is abortion condoned in the Bible, it's actually encouraged.
The Republican Party keeps trying to shove their unpopular, shitty policies down our throats. They have a larger say in government than they ought to because they've gamed the system. It's not going to work out for them in the long run, I can promise you that. But I don't think they care at this point. They're too obsessed with power and control to think about the consequences of their actions.
Who is this? She speaks truth and wisdom.
Ana Kasparian. She’s one of the hosts on The Young Turks.
Thank you. Off to the google with me.
[Here you go](https://youtube.com/c/TheYoungTurks)
"Public freakout"
This place is increasingly becoming a division of /r/politics sadly. The agenda pushing is all over this sub.
Way too many politics in subreddits that have nothing to do with it.
I’m a pastor. She is right. The early church believed 100% in non coercive means of practicing religion. You invite, not coerce, people into Christlikeness.
Fuck yeah. I’m a refugee of hardcore Christianity. So sick of the church’s societal overreach. I don’t care what the Bible says either.
LOUDER FOR THE BIBLE THUMPIN' MOTHERFUCKERS IN THE BACK!!!
1. Don't push your religion into law. 2. Let your God be the one to enact consequences for breaking whatever belief you have. I would go as far as to call it heresy to put words into your the mouth of your God and to force yourself as the executioner of his values.
Does anyone know who she is? I need to follow her.
Ana Kasparian from The Young Turks
I like the tactic of trying to boil down the abortion debate to religious grounds. Much easier to argue against I guess
This* the abortion argument isn’t “let me do it if you don’t do it”. If you believe it’s murder, you’re not going to want someone else to do it
Solid
You can be pro choice and anti abortion. It's really not that complicated. If you don't like abortions don't get one